Exclusive: By orchestrating the 2014 “regime change” in Ukraine, U.S. neocons may have indirectly contributed to a desperate Ukrainian factory selling advanced rocket engines to North Korea and endangering America, writes Robert Parry.
By Robert Parry
U.S. intelligence analysts reportedly have traced North Korea’s leap forward in creating an intercontinental ballistic missile capable of striking U.S. territory to a decaying Ukrainian rocket-engine factory whose alleged role could lift the cover off other suppressed mysteries related to the U.S.-backed coup in Kiev.
North Korean missile launch on March 6, 2017.
Because the 2014 coup – overthrowing elected President Viktor Yanukovych – was partly orchestrated by the U.S. government’s influential neoconservatives and warmly embraced by the West’s mainstream media, many of the ugly features of the Kiev regime have been downplayed or ignored, including the fact that corrupt oligarch Igor Kolomoisky was put in charge of the area where the implicated factory was located.
As the region’s governor, the thuggish Kolomoisky founded armed militias of Ukrainian extremists, including neo-Nazis, who spearheaded the violence against ethnic Russians in eastern provinces, which had voted heavily for Yanukovych and tried to resist his violent overthrow.
Kolomoisky, who has triple citizenship from Ukraine, Cyprus and Israel, was eventually ousted as governor of Dnipropetrovsk (now called Dnipro) on March 25, 2015, after a showdown with Ukraine’s current President Petro Poroshenko over control of the state-owned energy company, but by then Kolomoisky’s team had put its corrupt mark on the region.
At the time of the Kolomoisky-Poroshenko showdown, Valentyn Nalyvaychenko, chief of the State Security Service, accused Dnipropetrovsk officials of financing armed gangs and threatening investigators, Bloomberg News reported, while noting that Ukraine had sunk to 142nd place out of 175 countries in Transparency International’s Corruptions Perception Index, the worst in Europe.
Even earlier in Kolomoisky’s brutal reign, Dnipropetrovsk had become the center for the violent intrigue that has plagued Ukraine for the past several years, including the dispatch of neo-Nazi militias to kill ethnic Russians who then turned to Russia for support.
Tolerating Nazis
Yet, protected by the waves of anti-Russian propaganda sweeping across the West, Kolomoisky’s crowd saw few reasons for restraint. So, among the Kolomoisky-backed militias was the Azov battalion whose members marched with Swastikas and other Nazi insignias.
Nazi symbols on helmets worn by members of Ukraine’s Azov battalion. (As filmed by a Norwegian film crew and shown on German TV)
Ironically, the same Western media which heartily has condemned neo-Nazi and white-nationalist violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, adopted a much more tolerant attitude toward Ukraine’s neo-Nazism even as those militants murdered scores of ethnic Russians in Odessa in May 2014 and attacked ethnic Russian communities in the east where thousands more died.
When it came to Ukraine, The New York Times and other mainstream outlets were so dedicated to their anti-Russian propaganda that they veered between minimizing the significance of the neo-Nazi militias and treating them as bulwarks of Western civilization.
For instance, on Feb. 11, 2015, the Times published a long article by Rick Lyman that presented the situation in the port city of Mariupol as if the advance by ethnic Russian rebels amounted to the arrival of barbarians at the gate while the inhabitants were being bravely defended by the forces of civilization. But then the article cited the key role in that defense played by the Azov battalion.
Though the article provided much color and detail and quoted an Azov leader prominently, it left out the fact that the Azov battalion was composed of neo-Nazis.
This inconvenient truth that neo-Nazis were central to Ukraine’s “self-defense forces” would have disrupted the desired propaganda message about “Russian aggression.” After all, wouldn’t many Americans and Europeans understand why Russia, which suffered some 27 million dead in World War II, might be sensitive to neo-Nazis killing ethnic Russians on Russia’s border?
So, in Lyman’s article, the Times ignored Azov’s well-known neo-Nazism and referred to it simply as a “volunteer unit.”
In other cases, the Times casually brushed past the key role of fascist militants. In July 2015, the Times published a curiously upbeat story about the good news that Islamic militants had joined with far-right and neo-Nazi battalions to kill ethnic Russian rebels.
The article by Andrew E. Kramer reported that there were three Islamic battalions “deployed to the hottest zones,” such as around Mariupol. One of the battalions was headed by a former Chechen warlord who went by the name “Muslim,” Kramer wrote, adding:
“The Chechen commands the Sheikh Mansur group, named for an 18th-century Chechen resistance figure. It is subordinate to the nationalist Right Sector, a Ukrainian militia. Right Sector formed during last year’s street protests in Kiev from a half-dozen fringe Ukrainian nationalist groups like White Hammer and the Trident of Stepan Bandera.
“Another, the Azov group, is openly neo-Nazi, using the ‘Wolf’s Hook’ symbol associated with the [Nazi] SS. Without addressing the issue of the Nazi symbol, the Chechen said he got along well with the nationalists because, like him, they loved their homeland and hated the Russians.”
Rockets for North Korea
The Times encountered another discomforting reality on Monday when correspondents William J. Broad and David E. Sanger described U.S. intelligence assessments pointing to North Korea’s likely source of its new and more powerful rocket engines as a Ukrainian factory in Dnipro.
North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
Of course, the Times bent over backward to suggest that the blame might still fall on Russia even though Dnipro is a stronghold of some of Ukraine’s most militantly anti-Russian politicians and although U.S. intelligence analysts have centered their suspicions on a Ukrainian-government-owned factory there, known as Yuzhmash.
So, it would seem clear that corrupt Ukrainian officials, possibly in cahoots with financially pressed executives or employees of Yuzhmash, are the likeliest suspects in the smuggling of these rocket engines to North Korea.
Even the Times couldn’t dodge that reality, saying: “Government investigators and experts have focused their inquiries on a missile factory in Dnipro, Ukraine.” But the Times added that Dnipro is “on the edge of the territory where Russia is fighting a low-level war to break off part of Ukraine” – to suggest that the Russians somehow might have snuck into the factory, stolen the engines and smuggled them to North Korea.
But the Times also cited the view of missile expert Michael Elleman, who addressed North Korea’s sudden access to more powerful engines in a study issued this week by the International Institute for Strategic Studies.
“It’s likely that these engines came from Ukraine — probably illicitly,” Elleman said in an interview with the Times. “The big question is how many they have and whether the Ukrainians are helping them now. I’m very worried.”
Yet, always looking for a chance to shift the blame to Russia, the Times quickly inserted that “Mr. Elleman was unable to rule out the possibility that a large Russian missile enterprise, Energomash, which has strong ties to the Ukrainian complex, had a role in the transfer of the RD-250 engine technology to North Korea.”
Of course by that standard – “unable to rule out the possibility” – almost anyone could be put under suspicion. One source familiar with the U.S. intelligence assessments said there is even suspicion that some operatives in Israel played a role in transferring the rocket engines to North Korea. The source cited Israel’s historic arms-trade with North Korea dating back to Israel’s covert arms pipeline to Iran during the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s.
Israel, a rogue nuclear-weapons state itself, also has a history of collaborating with other “pariah” states on nuclear proliferation, including apartheid South Africa which joined Israel in nuclear tests before the democratic election of Nelson Mandela.
Kolomoisky cultivated close ties between Israel and Dnipro by helping to construct one of the largest Jewish centers in the world in the Ukrainian city, which has fallen on hard times since the 2014 coup shattered economic ties with Russia and left the Yuzhmash factory with little work.
Ukrainian oligarch Igor Kolomoisky confronting journalists after he led an armed team in a raid at the government-owned energy company on March 19, 2015. (Screen shot from YouTube)
Yet, while the Ukraine crisis may have reduced living standards for average Ukrainians, it was an important catalyst in the creation of the New Cold War between Washington and Moscow, which offers lucrative opportunities for U.S. military contractors and their many think-tank apologists despite increasing the risk of nuclear war for the rest of us.
In particular, U.S. neoconservatives have viewed heightened tensions between the West and Russia as valuable both in driving up military spending and laying the groundwork for a possible “regime change” in Moscow. The neocons have wanted to retaliate against Russian President Vladimir Putin’s role in frustrating neocon (and Israeli-Saudi) desires to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and to bomb Iran, which Israel and Saudi Arabia now view as their principal regional adversary.
The neocon/Israeli-Saudi interests have produced many strange bedfellows with weapons flowing to Al Qaeda’s affiliate in Syria, and – because of Putin’s assistance to Syria and Iran – the tolerance of neo-Nazis and Islamic militants in Ukraine.
The MH-17 Case
Kolomoisky’s operation in Dnipro also has come under suspicion for a possible role in the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 on July 17, 2014. According to a source briefed by U.S. intelligence analysts, Dnipro was the center of a plot to use a powerful anti-aircraft missile to shoot down Putin’s official plane on a return flight from South America, but instead – after Putin’s plane took a more northerly route – the missile brought down MH-17, killing all 298 people aboard.
Quinn Schansman, a dual U.S.-Dutch citizen killed aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 on July 17, 2014. (Photo from Facebook)
For reasons that have still not been explained, the Obama administration suppressed U.S. intelligence reports on the MH-17 tragedy and instead joined in pinning the shoot-down on ethnic Russian rebels and, by implication, Putin and his government.
In the West, the MH-17 shoot-down became a cause celebre, generating a powerful propaganda campaign to demonize Putin and Russia – and push Europe into joining sanctions against Moscow. Few people dared question Russia alleged guilt even though the Russia-did-it arguments were full of holes. [See here and here.]
Now this North Korean case forces the issue of Ukraine’s reckless behavior to the fore again: Did an inept or corrupt Ukrainian bureaucracy participate in or tolerate a scheme to sell powerful rocket engines to North Korea and enable a nuclear threat to U.S. territory?
In response to the reports of possible Ukrainian collusion in North Korea’s missile program, Oleksandr Turchynov, secretary of the Ukrainian national security and defense council, issued a bizarre denial suggesting that The New York Times and U.S. intelligence agencies were pawns of Russia.
“This information [about North Korea possibly obtaining rocket engines from Ukraine] is not based on any grounds, provocative by its content, and most likely provoked by Russian secret services to cover their own crimes,” Turchynov said.
Press reports about Turchynov’s statement left out two salient facts: that as the interim President following the February 2014 coup, Turchynov ordered Right Sektor militants to begin the bloody siege of rebel-held Sloviansk, a key escalation in the conflict, and that Turchynov was the one who appointed Kolomoisky to be the ruler of Dnipropetrovsk.
Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s. You can buy his latest book, America’s Stolen Narrative, either in print here or as an e-book (from Amazon and barnesandnoble.com).
it makes sense inasmuch as state dept. never blamed moscow. clearly they didn’t want to discuss this matter too openly. but how did mossad get their cut?
The jews have been spying and stabbing every country in the back since stepping off the boat and are the ones selling the missles
Does Ojr stand for Ogre in Russian?
I’m very pleased that you know who sold the missiles. Could you give us the documented details of who, where and when so that we could give them to prosecutors.
could be somali pirates…
This was a very good article and the Nazi information is essential.
Back in 2015 a video of the new Ukrainian government and its Nazis stooges was exposed:
“In the video, Artyom Vitko, the former commander of the government backed Luhansk-1 Battalion and now a member of Oleh Lyashko’s Radical Party, can be seen sitting in the back of a car wearing camouflage fatigues and singing along to a song by a Russian neo-Nazi band extolling the virtues of the Nazi dictator.” http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Ukrainian-legislator-toasts-Hitler-438561
And then there is this, again directly after elections:
“Two months after local elections were held across Ukraine, residents of the small northern city of Konotop are expressing shock and dismay over the behavior of newly chosen Mayor Artem Semenikhin of the neo-Nazi Svoboda party.
According to reports, Semenikhin drives around in a car bearing the number 14/88, a numerological reference to the phrases “we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children” and “Heil Hitler”; replaced the picture of President Petro Poroshenko in his office with a portrait of Ukrainian national leader and Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera; and refused to fly the city’s official flag at the opening meeting of the city council because he objected to the star of David emblazoned on it. The flag also features a Muslim crescent and a cross.
Svoboda, known as the Social-National Party of Ukraine until 2004, has been accused of being a neo-Nazi party by Ukrainian Jews and while party leaders have a history of making anti-Semitic remarks, their rhetoric has toned down considerably over the past years as they attempted to go mainstream.
While it managed to enter mainstream politics and gain 36 out of 450 seats in the Rada, Ukraine’s parliament, the party’s support seemed to evaporate following the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, in which it played a central role. It currently holds six seats in the legislature.
The party managed to improve its standing during recent municipal elections, however, obtaining some 10 percent of the vote in Kiev and garnering second place in the western city of Lviv. For the most part, however, Svoboda is far from the major worry for Ukrainian Jews that it was only two years ago.
“It is a sad, but a reality when anti-Semites are being elected in local governing bodies, even mayors promoting hate and intolerance.” http://spitfirelist.com/news/nazis-in-ukraine-hypocrisy-elsewhere-including-israel/
As Dave Emory,a fine researching on all things dascists notes:
“In late January, Trump point man for “matters Russian”–CIA/FBI operative Felix Sater, a long-time associate of his and Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen and a Ukrainian parliamentarian named Andrii Artemenko were proposing a cease-fire/peace plan for Ukraine. This has been spun by our media as constituting yet another of the “Russia controls Trump” manifestations.
The facts, however, reveal that this was not a “pro-Russian” gambit but an ANTI-Russian gambit! In addition to the CIA/FBI affiliation of Sater, it should be noted that Artemenko was part of the Pravy Sektor milieu in Ukraine, one of the most virulent of the OUN/B successor organizations in power in that benighted nation.
Sater, Artemenko and others were working on a plan to rehabilitate Ukrainian nuclear power plants in order to generate electricity for Ukraine and the Baltic states, freeing those former Soviet republics from their old Soviet electrical power grids. The aging Soviet grids are a remaining element for potential Russian influence in these areas.” http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-967-update-on-ukrainian-fascism-the-russia-gate-psy-op-and-the-possibility-of-a-third-world-war/
Felix Sater is the name to research. He was and probably still is the criminal point man for Trump’s back and forth with Russia.
Another note: Andrew Auerenheimer, the founder of The Daily Stormer, a fascist internet site that operates internationally, is now in the Ukraine. David Duke just recently got back from teaching stint in the Ukraine. And shields that were used by the fascists to overthrow the government in 2014, are being used now in Venezuela now in an attempt to overthrow the Maduro government. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-protesters-idUSKBN19K26V
Let’s not forget that the liberal interventionists led by Hillary Clinton and Victoria Nuland, and by implication President Obama were in charge when the results of the last free and fair Ukrainian elections, were blasted to smithereens by liberal interventionist actions and dollars.
Horse puckeys.
We have 20 and 30 year old puter systems in our ICBM silos right now, but DOD’s own words last month.
Those missles only change has been in type and numbers of warheads since theu were installedYup they do decay.
I have. A thousand times mpre computer power than when we stole the Russian design of Pershing Missle and its guidance system.
We changed its target from 30 metes down to 10 and with all our expertise in propellents that and its fire data and guidance system only increased in range by 170 kilometers.
Having worked with Russian and German chemical, electrica, system quality, l and structural engineers I found the vast difference in completion of final product time was in their favir over our US of same diciplines was in way
they approached and their mental processes.
We try and drliberately complicste matters, its part of nerd lack of penis, in order to kiss ass and ego tripping I am smsrter than you group think jealousies.
No innovative infividual everything is committee approval and presentations follow the ones who get paid to manage likes and dislikes, politics even down to underprafuate levels.
While americans can say they can hit a needle point and then argue over howw manyvangels were sitting on that point, if the object was to destroy the pin why worry about a plusbor minus .05 inch just blow the f’n pin away.
We been relying upon foreign trained physacist and chemical, nuclear expertise of foreign trsined peoples for last 40 years.
Hell todays jigh school students have a mental faculty far above whay experts had in past.
The bullshit put forth by todays experts is only because thry have access to the means not by any exceptional mental abilities over their fellow man.
To launch a warhead into proper trajectory is today more mechanical than in the past.
We are not talking sending ship to planets where you need constant monitoring and corrections in order to get there.
Why is it Russia and India were ahead of US Boeings deep space permanent orbit satelites by over ten years?
Troll BS.
yes, the nerd lacking penis comment won me over. the misspelling threw me off for a bit. i have to admit i thought perhaps you are simply another moron with a keyboard. now i know better. you have a personal device. hopefully you weren’t in traffic. lots of nonsense in a few brief paragraphs. reminds me of the how to preserve a human brain pamphlets from the good old days.
Why does it seem that americans think that N. Korean people are all dumb as a rock brainwashed Neandrathals, American Hubris that our Euro -centric brains and ducational system is so f’n better?
When we talk of technological expertise one had best remember todays rocket sciences is over 60 years old, our basic mathematical means for construction of missle bodies is as old and the 30 year old computer systems within the limited capacity of measurement and control of mechanical construction and especially guidance systems still run on 30 yearold data capacity puters.
You want to build a short range misdle with 100-200 mile range in your back yard, is damned easy, look up your needs on internet.
Build a nuke warhead only lacks access to nuke materials.
Not saying N. Korea did not buy instead of wsiting till their own manufacturing capabilities were available but yes to gain quick accesd to delf fefense means why not buy.
Ch…t on a crooked crotch study ballistics for 15 monutes and learn that placing a warhead in a high enough pattern means its path will be set aftrr all fuel is spent.
The damn things do not need a f’n pilot to get it to target.
N . Koreas computer skills rank with worlds best, they have an ectermely good educational system and rank wsy above US in adult literacy.
Their best and brightest in all diciplines are encouraged to excell in their fields and not all is for military useages.
Some of Words best arvhetectural and mechanical enginerrs live in N Korea.
And oh yes they have more Dr. And nurse per thousand than foes US and free medical for all.
And no they do not use rifle bayonets gor scalpels.
Your technical points are incorrect: no one is using ancient technology; missiles are not an easy matter; and targeting is difficult.
Two years after the article that glossed over the Nazi ideology and activities of the Azov battalion, the New York Times is still at it, but this time in a more disgusting way. Last month they published a short video of a seemingly harmless “summer camp” for kids as young as seven, run by the Azov battalion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofE1VBcOEEU
The quality of that video looks distorted on my screen, so it might be better to see the HD version here instead:
https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/europe/100000005174487/ukraine-summer-camp-learning-to-fight.html
A different video about the “Azovets” camp, published by NBC less than a week later, paints a more creepy picture, even though it also downplays Azov’s Nazi background. The NBC video shows children being given serious military training and singing songs celebrating the slaughtering of Russians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpV16BQfbrQ
Strange how the ‘liberal’ NYT missed those details.
The description of the NYT ‘s video on their Facebook page reads like propaganda from a military dictatorship:
“Witness a Ukrainian military summer camp for children outside of Kiev. As the conflict between Ukraine and Russian-backed separatists continues, they are encouraged to prepare to defend their country.”
https://web.facebook.com/nytimes/videos/10151237619744999
Excellent points Zachary. Thank you.
On the Russia-gate thread Broompilot asked this:
My search for information on this turned up nothing at the time, but this morning on a very obscure web site I saw a link which told an interesting story. One which Big Neocon Media must have found inconvenient.
h**p://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-no-military-action-north-korea-2017-8
Now I don’t know how much short-term influence the Seoul government has with Trump, but in the long term this could be a big issue. I can imagine South Korea acquiring nuclear weapons and at the same time kicking out the US forces. Who wants a bunch of distant warmongers and lunatics deciding their future?
That is the solution to the problem, if Japan and South Korea obtain nuclear weapons themselves, they will be able to respond to NK in kind. And it takes the United States off the hook in having to guarantee their defense. The next question that arises is how will China feel with an escalating arms race between NK, SK and Japan just outside its border? If Trump wants to pressure China into taking action against NK, more likely than not they will respond, if it means eliminating the threat of SK and Japan rearming. Hence the statement from South Korea that it will no longer take its instructions from Washington.
The only real solution is the elimination of all nuclear weapons worldwide. Any other “solutions” only delay the inevitable holocaust possessing these weapons will eventually trigger. That the world is currently not on an elimination path, is irrelevant – the truth remains he truth – either obey it, or suffer the horrible consequences.
We go to such lengths to disobey laws which finally cannot be evaded.
Mike: “The only real solution is the elimination of all nuclear weapons worldwide.”
That is what we should all be about. The world’s leaders should be talking about denuclearization.
Virginia hello, See mijkmijld, for a link to Donbass above and I’ll provide a link that is really interesting here.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-west-and-international-terrorism/5601928
Bob Van Noy — thank you for that excellent link (below, above?).
To quote John McEnroe: “You cannot be serious!” The proliferation of nuclear weapons increases the likelihood that they will be used either out of anger or fear or even by accident. Whether or not the U.S. is directly involved, nuclear war anywhere on the planet will be a catastrophe.
Not true at all: a set of nearby states with only first-strike capability is unstable.
Yes, Zach. I read that story on the EIR website today, in their “Hot News” column on the right-hand side. On the left hand column, is LaRouchePAC which is running a story on the professional provocateurs planted in both sides of the Charlottesville incident, likely by FBI, representing the importation of Color Revolution tactics used in Ukraine (via NAZI retainers kept on, in deep cover, by MI6/CIA and their masters; the Boardroom NAZIs of the Western Empire of The City & The Street) to remove Trump on racist, and general unfitness, grounds, now that VIPS has destroyed the “Russia Hack” story…all to PREVENT any friendly relations from developing between USA, Russia, AND China (and New Silk Road policies coming here, FDR/New Deal-style), Trump’s REAL threat to the Washington/K-street/Wall Street Establishment.
Official Washingtons Delusion On Delusions
By Robert Parry
2015/03/10
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/10/official-washingtons-delusions-on-delusions/
By any chance, is LaRouchePAC connected with Lyndon LaRouche? If so, be aware that he and his followers are bonafide nutcases.
I appreciate your concern, Rob. I’ve decided that THAT is all just so much “character assassination” to scare people away from their info that they offer on their websites. Did you know that China’s “New Silk Road” was the idea of Lyndon and Helga LaRouche, decades in the making? Did you know that Lyndon has been campaigning for fifty years now , to revive FDR’s Post-War vision of an alliance between USA, USSR/Russia, and China, to liberate the Colonies of Europe’s Empires and help develop them(what China’s New Silk Road policies accomplishes exactly) as Sovereign Nations to bring them into the U.N.? Did you know that the Imperialists of (primarily, but not exclusively…the Euro-Garchs are all in cahoots, but Britain is keeper of the “Special Relationship”) Britain shut this policy down immediately upon FDR’s death (hence all of the “guerilla wars” ever since), and Lyndon has been working ever since to reverse this policy? Do you see HOW this greatly offends the Wall Street/City-of-London “axis of evil” and so have black-balled/imprisoned/attempted to assassinate Lyndon ever since? One finds out stuff, if one just simply looks where “authorities” say not to look.
Brad, I think there are former members of the LaRouche Movement who do not see things quite the way you do.
http://american-lycurgus.blogspot.com/
Brad, I haven’t been following all the links posted here, but why aren’t we seeing our EU and NATO friends speaking up? Why have they been so silent on the New Sanctions, which hurt so many of our allies and boost US sales? Am I just not reading the right stories? These countries could make such a difference, I feel.
The individual Nations are as much trapped in the EU straitjacket as we are captured by the Wall Street/City-of-London cabal. NO Nation in the Trans-Atlantic Community get to call its own shots, in its own National Interest.
Such is the nature of Empire that the component Nations have to be “busted down” to provincial status, even failed states, if that is what it takes to subjugate them, bring them to heel, before the ruling Oligarchy.
The best chance to defeat this cabal is for the USA to “break ranks” with this evil, and JOIN, in strong alliance, with Russia, China, India, Japan, in a new Pacific Pact to forward China’s New Silk Road policies, INCLUDING bring them into operation right here…call it “FDR’s New Deal 2”, for the forgotten men and women that Hillary so cluelessly called “Deplorables”.
Brad — sounds like a good idea. Russia and China might join together without us.
Virginia and Brad please see this and comment…
http://www.aspeninstitute.it/aspenia-online/article/hunter-hunted-trump’s-russiagate-communication-challenge
Brad Owen, “by MI6/CIA and their masters; the Boardroom NAZIs of the Western Empire of The City & The Street) to remove Trump on racist, and general unfitness, grounds”,
Are you serious, Brad Owen?
Did not the British fund The South against the North in the 600,000 thousand Death-toll fight to save the Union?
Has Trump not just thrown down the gauntlet In Favor of The City of London and the Ever Bullish Street (that favors low wages and low taxes/for the rich?) ———- “They call you the elite; I call you My Base”, GW Bush…
The EIR/LaRouchePAC hasn’t given up on steering Trump in the right direction. If-or-when THEY go thumbs down on Trump, THAT’S when I’ll bail. They apparently see potential in Trump, despite obvious character flaws, and over the years, they’ve had an amazing record of accurately reporting on what’s REALLY going on in the World, but one would have to follow their work to see this. I’ve been following them closely since 9-11 (which they called out the perps within a year of it happening). They get to speak truth BECAUSE they have been so effectively black-balled by The Establishment…an oversight on their part, but then “The Elite” aren’t the brightest crayons in the box.
Trump will eventually have to be disabused of any notions that The Street or The City are friends-to-Trump, or have the people’s interests at heart…BUT he consistently WANTS to work with, and do deals with, Russia and China. This is EVERYTHING, and the greatest threat to the “Western Empire”. USA in alliance is the death knell to the Western Empire, and to war itself. Trump may not be aware of these things, but EIR is definitely aware of these things, so Trump represent “raw material” with which they can work. As hard as The Establishment is trying to hang Trump. He’ll probably have an epiphany about who his friends and enemies REALLY are. His only safe harbor is to end up putting on the mantel of FDR and BECOME that man he sounded like during the Campaign
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/08/14/ukraine-hosts-us-military-permanently-stationed-on-its-soil.html
The US military’s real stance on Nazis!
Of course the military speaks with forked tongue, it’s the only one they have got! But sometimes the truth telling fork prevails, as in their recent polite refusal to buy Trump’s racism. Of course that other fork has always bought into it lock stock and barrel.
Of course we all have the dark side in us. Denying this leads to many of our problems. See Scott Peck’s fascinating book People of the Lie.
Pretensions of purity are toxic.
Great link, mijkmijld, thanks. It sure loads slowly though…
From above this post.
Thank you, CN, for making the analogy in a timely matter after the Carlottesville incident. And for being a beacon of truth in an increasingly fictional world.
Soy Guevara
“According to a source briefed by U.S. intelligence analysts, Dnipro was the center of a plot to use a powerful anti-aircraft missile to shoot down Putin’s official plane on a return flight from South America, but instead – after Putin’s plane took a more northerly route – the missile brought down MH-17, killing all 298 people aboard.” This is the first I’ve heard of this. It is 3rd person hearsay from an in-named source, but it has the advantage of fitting into the puzzle of the MH-17 incident like the last and missing piece. The weight of circumstantial evidence in this case is beginning to turn it upside down. Thanks to Robert Parry for sticking to this story.
Gregory — First I’d heard of that, too, and it was amazing!
So many views I had are being turned upside down because of CN — through independent journalism and thoughtful informed comments. Thank you, Mr. Parry.
Yup, that is the probable motive for Ukraine to shoot down MH-17. It’s not a new theory, but this is the most clearly I’ve seen it stated.
Putin now makes sure he does not fly over NATO countries. When he attended the G-20 in Germany, rather than fly directly over Poland, he diverted over Finland and the Baltic Sea.
Many business leaders and Republicans and ordinary citizens are now speaking up on this pivotal issue threatening the ideals of our democracy. Are people on this blog going to be among them?
“Democracy”! What a shaky word! Where? what? when? Not here, not now and not for a long time. I agree with you on that, Mike. Also, as has been pointed out before, touting “the rule of law,” — those token slogans are for the sleepers in our societies. But Mike, what do you foresee as the result of an impeachment, then Mike Pence, and so on? Outline where we ought to be going and how? A thorough over-haul of our constitution and government? A new system? We are headed for an economic crash, they say, and worse than the last one. Crisis can be opportunity, but what say you?
I confess that I am puzzled at the lack of comments here regarding the current crisis around the clear revelation that President Donald Trump is a racist and supporter of Nazi fascists. This dark side of America and it’s President is flooding the media now. I guess the MSM feels this is another handy tool to get rid of Trump. But this does not mean that America waking up to the threat of open Fascism taking over our country is not valuable in it’s own right.
I have to ask, do those of you who are so steadfast in your opposition to the neocons and the deep state oligarchs, really feel it is good to continue having an avowed fascist as our president? Please remember the deadly power in the hands of an American President, and the love of extreme violence that is a hallmark of fascism. We have a fascist now with his finger on the Red Button to extinction.
Hey Mike K, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ll give a brief answer for myself.
Trump was legitimately elected, and those who have devoted themselves night and day to his impeachment simply ignore that 47 million people voted for him. They act as though those 47 million people don’t matter, don’t count and are truly the deplorables. (Do I have that number wrong? However many it was.) Secondly having Mike Pence as president is not appealing. Thirdly, it doesn’t seem to matter who is president. The Establishment is running things. They want war.
Agreed it would be nicer to have a more dignified and likable figure at the head of our country’s government. But over throwing an election would be very bad for our country, don’t you think? Hope that those who want to do that will engage themselves in a thorough cost –
benefit analysis.
Whoever might have won the last election, won a rigged crooked election. There was no “legitimacy” in it whatever. That election was a disgrace to the ideals of democracy. It “overturned” itself. If people decide they want a deranged, unstable , psychopathic, racist, fascist as president, I have already said it causes me to question their own sanity. If this evil clown projects us into the final nuclear war, I doubt if I will be around to say “I told you so.” In any case I would probably have other concerns then, as would others. I sometimes wonder whether commenting here as I do is the equivalent of shouting into an empty barrel…..
Virginia, I respectfully disagree that Trump is the best we can do now. Pence would be bad, but not as bad as Crazy Donald. If Pence became President, I would work with those who would seek legitimate impeachable causes to remove him also.
Virginia, …not long ago I would have agreed with you but now that any chance of rapprochement with Russia seems to have been eradicated I’m inclined to believe Pence would be the better option(not the lesser evil). Reason: any catastrophic event under Trump would be dismissed as an anomaly under an unstable leader. Pence would be a true instrument of the Deep State and a disaster under his presidency would force the MSM to inquire about what it has so far ignored. Sadly, either way it’s a catastrophe but somehow I think it is most likely to be preceded by an economic collapse. This is already envisioned by many economists across the political spectrum.
I see little difference between Trump and Pence, except that Trump sometimes defies the corrupt oligarchy. But the attacks on Trump from liberals are a mistake resulting from anger. Those who attack Trump for his bad domestic policies will find nothing better under other Repubs.
It is easy to see why people would be angry with Trump, but in fact they are serving the oligarchy by distracting us from its destruction, and preserving the Dems for more pseudo-liberal fakery in 2018-20. They are ruining US foreign policy, the one good policy Trump had, and provoking and exaggerating his careless acts and bad identity-politics. This is a very serious mistake orchestrated by the Dems for the Repubs.
To lay off Trump and focus on dumping the oligarchy and its duopoly is our only hope.
Must say that I agree. The America people are not going to “win” any kind of North American Maidan. An overthrow of the government, whether done in congress or in the streets, is not going to restore what most of you think you remember as enlightened democratic governance. Whoever and whatever comes next after such a scenario will be worse. It will be true despotism enforced by an un-elected leader given authority by a bunch of congressmen or generals who chose not to cooperate within the rules of our existing constitution.
As I’ve said elsewhere, our best bet is for the Dems to get off their highhorse of Russia Gate which they’ve fashioned out of pique from absurd lies and to interact with both the Republican congress and the elected Republican president under the rubric of the constitution to craft COMPROMISE legislation to whatever extent possible to get out of this dysfunctional gridlock. Even if nothing is accomplished (other than avoiding a government shut down or a default on the national debt) at least the debates on the issues in the chambers of congress will focus the public’s attention on what is wrong with this country and its government.
Maybe then initial steps can be taken to root out the corruption and incompetence that infests both major parties, which obviously do not represent the interests and values of most Americans and can stand a lot more competition in the political arena, while giving special attention to the oligarchs whom Anon mentions and who presume to own the government, the infrastructure, the resources and the armies of this country for their personal gain. Washington doesn’t just look bad, it is rotten to the core and needs to be exposed. That doesn’t get accomplished by simply making Donald Trump a scapegoat, tossing him out the door, and proclaiming the nation has been instantly transformed into what you think it should be in your dreams. That would be nothing more than a superficial manipulation of optics by the Deep State insiders. But that is what the hucksters are trying to sell you.
Anon and Realist — You’ve both really said it, in almost a response to what I was asking Mike K in a 1:22 pm post below, like …what would happen if …? I would not look forward to that prospect. Both parties need a good look in the mirror and need to compare that image to what we all see are our country’s needs. Thanks for your prescient comments.
Basically Trump said, if a person picks up a gun, bat or runs over people with a car, for a political viewpoint, they have no place in American society, no exceptions. Apparently the progressives feel there should be an exception made for Antifa: that they be allowed to bash in skulls, if those skulls contain thoughts opposed to the progressive agenda. I would rather be in Trump’s America than be in an America that makes exceptions like that, sorry.
Mike, BobH, DFC — you might all be right. You make good points. I’d like to see Trump lose support in his base and then, good riddance. It’s clear, and we all need to be awake to it, that a first-strike nuclear threat with Trump is out there, as with McCain, Graham, others. It’s incredible that anyone in this day and age would think/talk/hopefully not act like that
Mike, the election was rigged; that is, MSM GAVE Trump free time and so the election! No one seems to be blaming them for that fiasco. So, Mike, whatever you do, don’t leave us. We missed you when you took your oh-so-long-a walk!
Yes! While the DNC was ensuring that Democratic nomination process was corrupted so Bernie could never win, the Democrat directed MSM was ensuring that no other mainstream Republican candidate could win (Wikileaks: Pied Piper Strategy) by giving Trump $2 billion in free media coverage, thus drowning out all the other Republican candidates. Meanwhile the DOJ, NSA and FBI were seeing to it that Hillary’s server and foundation problems would never see the light of day.
So, they set-up the dream election, Hillary vs a Freak who had no chance of being elected. And their ace in the hole was the Billy Bush s_x tape, just in case the Trump Frankenstein became too powerful. Then we learn the MSM had knowledge of the Billy Bush tape for nearly a year prior, and had they been journalists, instead of Democratic shills, they would have released it before / during the Republican nomination process, thus ensuring Trump would get nowhere near the nuclear button. Instead they played politics with it and the American voters handed them their asses. (Regrefully, I voted very early by the way, for HRC, before Wikileaks came out, having no clue about DJT, just the thought of a carnival barking reality television star in the White House had made my decision a foregone conclusion.) Now, for some reason the Democrats are asking me to be concerned that Trump is now the President!?
It is all too rich. And I can tell you, straight out, being an expat living in a foreign country, the rest of the world wants NO PART of American Democracy having now seen it for themselves. I imagine the Russians and Chinese feel the same way, better Putin and Xi Jinping than the faux-freedom hypocrisy of the American system.
Lincoln Abraham said it best: “When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”
DFC, WELL SAID!
I’m going to postulate that DJT is a clueless ignoramus rather than a racist. If forced to unexpectedly define “racism” I’d expect him to make a fool of himself by spouting a mouthful of incoherent words.
Ditto for the Klan and Nazis and all the other right-wing loons. I predict the man truly does believe that being a KKK marcher is no different than any other type. Right-to-life? Anti-abortion? PETA? They are all “interest groups” of ordinary Americans and by “definition” must contain good, salt-of-the-earth humans.
So what’s all the fuss about? Because he is an old rich male who has probably never done a day of physical work in his life, Trump has some mighty strange views of everything. Because he is a billionaire and President and you and I are not, his viewpoint is valued at about ten million of ours.
At least.
The Ukrainian “journalists” are screaming this article was ordered by the Kremlin and this is slander. Yet nobody in Ukraine is willing to sue NY Times).
Well, mentioning the number of russians who died fighting nazi’s might be right, but then you should also remember the milions of Ukrainians who were assassinated by starvation (the Holodomor) which explains why they greeted the Nazis as liberators. The eastern part of Ukraine was so hardly hurt by starvation that Stalin deported thousands of russians to that area to get agriculture working again, which probably explains why that area is now pro-Russian.
This is what I have read, but I realize that in these toxic times nothing can be said without being accused of being a tool of some propaganda.
The Donbass, Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyt4nX7WCao
Thank you Mike. What an unfortunate location in Geo-strategy. That a seemingly small group of “intellects” should decide that this was the dividing line has doomed them. I hope this time it can be stopped without massive bloodshed.
I’d also like to add that this video represents the “on the ground” consequences of Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger and the simplistic continuity of thought in Foreign Policy that seems to have no counter-point.
The NYT is just pussyfooting around the the source of the rocket engines because they and Washington both know those engines came from Ukraine. Russia is obviously not inclined to incite Washington with further “provocations.” They’d be crazy to, and they are not suicidal. When Washington has definitive proof to blame Russia for something, as for example the gas turbines for electrical generation in Crimea, which were constructed in Russia but under license by Siemens, a German company kowtowing to American sanctions against Russia, then Russia will be vigorously accused, accompanied by chapter and verse of all the evidence.
When the existing evidence would exonerate Russia, as for example the MH-17 shoot-down by Ukrainian militias, the inquest is repeatedly delayed and definitive evidence never seems to be forthcoming, but Russia is still blamed… and their proffered evidence not admitted. Washington does everything possible to construct false narratives to frame Russia and they really don’t much care who can see through their ruses, because their good European vassals would not dare object!
I am very curious to see just what would happen to a member of NATO or the EU that strayed off the reservation defined by Washington. I was hoping that Germany, Austria and/or France would take unilateral action against the Nord Stream sanctions, but so far only crickets from their capitals since Trump signed the bill. Washington already nearly drove Deutsche Bank out of business with a 14-billion dollar fine for “laundering” Russian funds earlier this year. By the way, just who “gets” all this money that Washington “fines” other countries for violating its unilaterally-imposed sanctions? I’m sure it doesn’t go to charity. Basically, it is theft by the American government, am I right? Anyone else know different?
Realist, I hope you won’t mind if I jump in here to agree, and also add that I agree with Virginia who it seems to me to be an excellent analyst and the ending statement by MaDarby, slightly.
Robert Parry has, I think finally managed to sum it all up in one piece. To me this all finally makes sense. The deception goes back to our terrible errors in WWII, specifically “Operation Paperclip”, the hidden problem of continued Fascism in Germany and Ukraine and the Untold connections of American complicity in the security sector.
I’m particularly intrigued by the tie in to The NY Times.
Thanks Realist, I have a sense that this is going to be quite a revelatory thread. Thank you Robert Parry!
I am afraid your hopes of an EU country straying off message were misplaced. If you followed the Greek crisis and read Yanis Varoufakis’s book “Adults in the Room” you would know that the EU is completely controlled by Germany. Merkel having succeeded in packing the EU with her sycophants has done what Germany could not do by war – created a Europe which is a German empire. France has no power any more it is totally at the mercy of Berlin. (I even think only Germany could launch the “French” nukes.)
So Berlin is cool with Washington taking down its central bank (Deutsche Bundesbank) by imposing a fine larger than its total assets? This is stunning.
Before, during and after WWII there were powerful forces – particularly the oligarchy – who wanted to support the Nazis. Their justification was – in their religious extremism – that the Nazis were “Christians” while the existence of the godless CCCP – was morally unacceptable. After the war, the Nazi secret services were incorporated into the CIA.
This love affair with Nazi ideology is deeply embedded in the ideology of “exceptionalism” and US power.
Further, I find it hard to believe that the Empire is all that upset about these engines going to NK. The US can wipe them off the earth on a moment’s notice even if they have a hundred rockets. It may actually aid the Empire in its rapacious demand for world domination by tying up China and Russia on another front, as the US provokes constantly in the South China Sea and India (a full member of the Neoliberal empire) now is challenging and provoking China along its border.
In reality much of this goes back to WWI and the similarities to conditions then are present today. But hay, for America history only started when TV was invented – history is “I Love Lucy” and something about Vietnam.
Nazis as Christians. You might want to have a look at this Youtube video. (start at 36:15)
Genius of the Modern World – Friedrich Nietzsche
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzcD-LCKuNs
The Nazis viewed Christianity as a “slave religion” which prioritized looking after the worst off in society instead of promoting the leaders / masters. Nietzsche noted that when Rome was worshiping the God’s of the Imperial Cult (who mirrored strong leaders) they prospered and when they adopted Christianity (the slave religion) they fell. Nietzsche believed that Darwin disproved the existence of God and that if “God was Dead” then why was humanity still following the vestigial moral teachings of a fictional God? Nietzsche believed that humanity needed to create a “new morality” that actually glorified the “leaders and masters” over the less fortunate. Thus Nazi-ism came into full form with the creation of the idea of the “Master Race”.
Indeed, and this ideology was preferred by the Christians over the godless CCCP and the assets of the oligarchy remained intact.
Interesting points; apparently an early WWII US military strategy was to not oppose the Nazi aggression against the USSR, although that seems more anti-communist than pro-Nazi, as was the use of Germany and former-Nazi scientists after the war to oppose the USSR.
The gist of Michael Elleman’s report is that North Korea is incapable of producing the motors used in the missiles it is launching and he believes that the motors must come from the former Soviet Union. He identifies two companies as having the expertise to produce such motors: the Russian Energomash concern and the Ukrainian Yuzhnoye. In his report, Elleman does not choose between them and tends to favour the Russian option. He points out that North Koreans have been convicted in Ukraine for attempting to procure missile hardware from Yuzhnoye and the that factory is close to the Russian-controlled Donetsk-Lugansk “sausage”. He also points out that there is nothing to suggest that the Ukrainian government or even Yuzhnoye executives were involved. Mr Parry’s view seems to be that the Russians can’t be blamed because there is “no evidence”, but precisely because there is “no evidence” the Ukrainians must be guilty!
In addition, according to the NYT article, the statement purportedly made by Michael Elleman was made, not to the NYT, but in an interview with an unspecified other party to which no link is provided. Since the statement flatly contradicts the report and I can find no trace of the original interview, that suggests fake news, of whatever origin. Mr Parry is constantly accusing media outlets like the NYT of dishonesty, and even does so in this article, so I’m sure he’ll find that possibility credible.
As I’ve noted before, the pro-Putin camp in the US is increasingly, and increasingly openly, anti-Israel. However, the idea that Ukraine is being run by a “strange bedfellows” coalition of neo-Nazis and Jews is more than I’m prepared to swallow!
Finally, if North Korea is being armed by neo-Nazis, regardless of what country they might come from, isn’t that a good reason to make war on North Korea?
“Finally, if North Korea is being armed by neo-Nazis, regardless of what country they might come from, isn’t that a good reason to make war on North Korea?”
You may think that war is a “viable” solution to political conflicts, but you should have noticed by now that most of us here do not.
Moreover, if it’s neo-Nazis that are the motivating factor for your bloodlust, why don’t you just advise Washington to make war on Ukraine, as they are the fountainhead of neo-fascism in Europe?
“As I’ve noted before, the pro-Putin camp in the US is increasingly, and increasingly openly, anti-Israel. However, the idea that Ukraine is being run by a “strange bedfellows” coalition of neo-Nazis and Jews is more than I’m prepared to swallow!”
I don’t know about the “pro-Putin camp in the US” – there are certainly very different people who have different views on different subjects. As far as Israel is concerned, it should be noted that it stayed neutral in the conflict between Russia, Donbass, and Ukraine despite some criticism from the United States for this, unlike the US and the EU, Israel had not introduced sanctions against Russia and not used aggressive anti-Russian rhetoric like the US, and it has normal relations both with Ukraine and with Russia, while it has criticized the heroization of WWII Nazi collaborators in present Ukraine.
We certainly should not conflate Jews and Israel. There are Jewish people in many countries, some in governments, and being Jewish certainly does not make them Israel stooges. Ukraine being “run by Jews” sounds preposterous, but in a literal sense, it is partly true; the Ukrainian prime minister Volodymyr Groysman is undisputably Jewish (it is somehow funny that there were false rumors about the previous prime ministers Tymoshenko and Yatseniuk being Jewish, but then Groysman, a real Jewish prime minister was appointed). A Jewish prime minister obviously does not fit the idea that Ukraine has a “Nazi government”, but that would not be true, anyway. The open right-wing extremist parties Svoboda and Right Sector had bad election results, and while extreme nationalism is certainly strong among the governing parties in Ukraine, they can hardly be called Nazis.
But it would be false to conclude from this that right-wing extremists and Nazis are not influential in today’s Ukraine. First, although Svoboda and the Right Sector failed in the elections, on other lists nationalists were elected whose distance to right-wing extremists is hardly very big. But secondly, and more importantly, the main lever of power of the fascist groups in Ukraine after the coup is not elections and the parliament. They have armed paramilitary groups all over the country and intimidate people. When a local politician says or does something they do not like, armed men sometimes storm their buildings (and often, they do not have to do so because people are afraid and avoid anything that could displease them). When the prosecutor presented his findings about the massacre in Odessa, he had to flee because of threats.
Often, these unelected paramilitary groups set policy agendas. When they started a complete blockade of Donbass, the Ukrainian government first objected because this went against Ukraine’s economic interests – now, Ukraine has to import much more expensive coal -, but soon the Ukrainian government caved in and did what the extremist militias wanted.
So, it is less contradictory than it might seem at first sight. The Ukrainian government contains some people very far to the right like Turchynov and it uses nationalism for deflecting attention from economic failures and corruption, but it is certainly not a Nazi government as such. But the Ukrainian government is not very powerful and does not really have a monopoly of power in today’s Ukraine, which is why in many cases, it is the armed paramilitary groups on the ground who de facto set policies, and many of them can fairly be called Nazis.
“Finally, if North Korea is being armed by neo-Nazis, regardless of what country they might come from, isn’t that a good reason to make war on North Korea?”
North Korea has a much stronger military than the countries the United States attacked in the previous decades (Grenada, Yugoslavia, Iraq in 2003, …). These earlier wars often had disastrous consequences, but as far as the military strength of these countries was concerned, it was clear they could not offer much resistance. While the capabilities of the North Korea long-range missiles may be dubious and they could probably be intercepted, North Korea certainly can attack US military bases in South Korea and Japan, and even if only conventional weapons were used, a very large number of victims in North and South Korea and probably Japan that goes far beyond what we saw in US-led wars in the last decades would be likely. I think arguing in favor of such a gigantic bloodbath just because of some facts about one of the countries where North Korea may have bought weapons.
Ask those GI’s that fought in Korea about how weak the Koreans were/are. Just really bad thinking.
Since I don’t usually glance at poster names while reading I kind of skidded to a stop at this point and asked myself – the troll?
Sure was!
No
Great analysis, Michael. Don’t let the negative response from the CN echo chamber get you down. Anyone who actually takes the time to carefully read Michael Elleman’s analysis will realize that he’s not suggesting some sort of overt conspiracy between the governments of the Ukraine and North Korea. Instead, he’s proposing a much more plausible theory: western efforts to destabilize the Ukrainian government backfired and led to a non-government-sanctioned outcome that they should have anticipated. In no way does this interpretation let the USA off the hook. It merely proves that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
https://www.iiss.org/en/iiss%20voices/blogsections/iiss-voices-2017-adeb/august-2b48/north-korea-icbm-success-3abb
“Because the RD-250 is no longer employed by operational missiles or launchers, facilities warehousing the obsolete LPEs are probably loosely guarded. A small team of disgruntled employees or underpaid guards at any one of the storage sites, and with access to the LPEs, could be enticed to steal a few dozen engines by one of the many illicit arms dealers, criminal networks, or transnational smugglers operating in the former Soviet Union. The engines (less than two metres tall and one metre wide) can be flown or, more likely, transported by train through Russia to North Korea.”
“This is not to suggest that the Ukrainian government was involved, and not necessarily Yuzhnoye executives. Workers at Yuzhnoye facilities in Dnipropetrovsk and Pavlograd were likely the first ones to suffer the consequences of the economic misfortunes, leaving them susceptible to exploitation by unscrupulous traders, arms dealers and transnational criminals operating in Russia, Ukraine and elsewhere.”
Don’t be deceived; “Kenny” is a rightwing propagandist who makes no analysis at all, just excuses:
1. Here he contradicts the evidence in saying that Mr. Perry neglects the unlikely possibility that Russia supplied the engines to an unstable neighbor whose missile tests it has deplored. Even Stalin would not help NK, and today Russia is much more likely to have its own weapons guarded, than a bankrupt Ukraine factory in a war zone where NK was trying to get the engines. Mr. Parry rightfully ignores the most unlikely hypothesis of the origin at this point in the story.
2. He contradicts himself in claiming that there is no evidence of either possible origin but admitting the evidence that NK sought the engines from Dnipro, showing that they could not get Russian assistance.
3. His claim of a “pro-Putin camp in the US” is absurd. No one invents foreign monsters but rightwing tyrants and their opportunist sycophants, posing falsely with the flag to demand domestic power for themselves and accuse their moral superiors of disloyalty. They the true enemies of democracy,
Mr. Parry has not suggested a “conspiracy between the governments of the Ukraine and North Korea” but rather the work of oligarchs or corrupt persons connected with the bankrupt factory.
“Mr. Parry rightfully ignores the most unlikely hypothesis.”
No, actually Mr. Perry seems to support the most unlikely hypothesis. The most LIKELY hypothesis, as supported by Michael Elleman, is that a bunch of low-level operatives decided to make some $$ by selling the RD-250 motors to NK without the knowledge of the government. If you disagree, feel free to link to any sight that supports your claim. If not, feel free to shut up.
No, the article refers to Dnipro oligarchy in noting that “it would seem clear that corrupt Ukrainian officials, possibly in cahoots with financially pressed executives or employees of Yuzhmash, are the likeliest suspects.” It does not state that the W Ukraine government was directly involved, and notes that it dumped Kolomoisky upon request by the US.
“Kenny” invariably makes false criticisms of this site and injects anti-Russia propaganda, and your reversion to insult disqualifies your support of him.
Lots of reckless irresponsible posts here today, actually advocating war. Glad there are still a few cool heads here who rely on rational analysis before speaking. Many “no shows” of reliable regulars today. I wonder if the site is functioning properly. I was getting “cannot connect to site” messages earlier.
I’m sure the good people of Guam will be relieved to know that any nuclear devices heading their way will be carried by missiles maufactured in a nation whose government was bankrolled and installed by the previous US Democrat administration. A government fully supported by the present Republican administration.
It must be particularly comforting for all the military personnel stationed on the island, and their families, to see what their main political parties can do when they work together.
A point Mr, Parry made in his article, “…laying the groundwork for a possible ‘regime change’ in Moscow,” I’m afraid that’s exactly what came to me today as I was researching the Browder/Magnitsky film, articles and videos. There’s quite a bit online from Russia on that. The belief seems to be that Browder worked for the CIA and ran a scheme of money laundering while also recruiting and training someone to eventually run against Putin. It could be that Browder got a lot put in place before being ousted from Russia in ’05 or ’06. Hope to see that Russian journalist’s documentary; that’s what I was looking for.
Thank you Virginia. Please see my comment below to Realist…
This is interesting background on the whole Kolomoiski complex of criminality. The Kolomoiski operation’s possible role in the Dutch plane shoot-down is new to me, though I am sure others are more knowledgeable about these facts and I know Mr. Parry wouldn’t run with it without full knowledge. Then there is the question why supply rockets to North Korea? Could it be that, as a result of the fact the Kolomoisky company was cut off from Russia as a business source as a result of the success of the coup, they sought jobs wherever they could find them and North Korea looked like the best prospect. When corruption reaches a critical mass, as it obviously has in post-US coup Ukraine, such things happen. I don’t really see the problem being solved until the failed state is partitioned among its neighbours or linked in some fashion with Russia.
As Robert Parry noted, the NYT article by Sanger and Broad, with its compulsive mentioning of Russia in an article about a made-in-Ukraine problem, is a weird amalgam of important–but politically inconvenient–news, and the usual craven Russophobia the Times supplies every day.
We need to get our troops into the Ukraine now, to root out these rogue black market characters from selling weapons to international terrorist states and to secure the Ukrainian democracy against future Russian destabilization – Putin will have to think twice about crossing the USA with American armor a few hundred miles from Moscow!
DFC: How did you sneak early in the stupid comment like that?!
MY SUSPICIONS ARE TRIGGERED HERE:
So, we are to actually believe that the NYT accidentally stumbled upon a piece of news they had no choice but to print?
It has been a long time goal to see Ukraine incorporated into NATO & the EU. So, if rocket engines are being shipped to North Korea, ostensibly by rogue elements within the Ukraine, what better way to stop it than by setting up military bases and a US intelligence apparatus? How many MSM consuming Americans would be happy to see troops go into Ukraine if it guaranteed North Korea would not have access to rocket engines that are threatening nuclear war in the Pacific? Sounds like a proposition the whole country can rally around and Trump would be powerless to stop it.
Itching for nuclear war DFC?
Looks like a couple of Ukro-nazi regulars have migrated here from ICH.
that is nuts. beyond the scope of sanity.
What a range of duplicitous false-flag attacks this opens up.
Yes, although the pre-installed nuclear device is really the false-flag game-changer: no unreliable delivery system needed, and no one can be sure where it came from: they can only guess from debris, size, etc., which is ambiguous and readily faked, so does not warrant a nuclear response. Guessing based upon recent political events has been shown to cause false-flags like the Syrian gas attacks. If a conventional invasion were imminent with nuclear backup, a false-flag attack on the aggressor causing serious damage would likely precipitate nuclear attack on the target nation rather than deter invasion, so the target nation is the least likely cause. But denial by the target nation would relinquish any actual nuclear deterrent they might have, as claiming or demonstrating their similar deterrent would implicate them in the false-flag real attack. No nation near the target nation would be likely to make such a false-flag attack.
Demonstration of pre-installed deterrent capability by using such a device at a remote location within the conventional aggressor nation, and claiming to have more installed in cities, might not trigger a nuclear counterattack, and would certainly deter a conventional invasion. It might also discredit the warmonger faction and propaganda media in the aggressor nation.
You seem to be a sensible, informed and coherent contributor. You are most likely much more knowledgeable about nuclear devices than I am. Do you know what are the probabilities of an accidental spontaneous detonation of one of those babies carried in a ballistic missile submarine or in a B-1 or B-2 bomber? I am guessing it is close to approaching zero, but whether that is absolutely attainable or not, I do not know. I understand critical mass and how the explosive triggers respond to monitored air pressure (a function of altitude) when every component is working according to specs. What risk does humanity carry by keeping so many of these suckers cocked and loaded for launch on a moment’s notice? And, if one did go off in a silo or in the magazine of an aircraft carrier, would it be anything but sabotage or a false flag? Could it be due to random quantum fluctuation in some circuit? Or should we immediately retaliate against our preferred enemies if one goes boom in San Diego or Norfolk?
It would not be caused by a natural process, and not very likely by a software error, but could certainly be caused by human error such as a rogue military unit. I do not know whether the command structure design is everywhere immune to rogues. Nuclear power disasters have been caused by established procedures that obviously violated engineering designs based upon failure analysis. So I would assume that major powers have carefully designed their procedures, and that small powers are advised to do so. But the ultimate commanders and their advisers are plainly ill-advised, temperamental, and hence unreliable.
Thanks. That’s sort of what I figured.
We’ve been fortunate. Seventy-two years of this technology and so far, on the weapons end, only a couple of nuclear submarines lost in the depths and one bomber down in Spain… that the public knows of. Lots of rusting cans of nuclear waste, however, foolishly dumped to the bottom of the Pacific, which have endangered the ecosphere long before Fukushima.
Ironic that supposedly beneficial nuclear power plants have catastrophically failed more often than the weapons (3MI, Chernobyl and Fukushima), that we know of. There were always rumors of entire towns eradicated by nuclear accidents in the Soviet Urals. (Was the cause of the hot Iodine cloud over Europe earlier this year ever ascertained?)
Appalling to recollect the radioactive fallout the world was exposed to during the days of the atmospheric nuclear tests during the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s. Even the Norks don’t test detonate nukes in the open air today.
The dots were already there. The suspicions made sense. They just needed connecting. It seemed suspicious to say the least that little N. Korea had made such amazing advances in rocket science in such a short time given their resources. It was unlikely they did it themselves without outside help, especially given the autocratic atmosphere. But from where? Unlikely it would be China.
We also know the US has a long history of needing and setting up enemies, and arming them if necessary to enable them start a fight and justify our going to war with them. After all, why would the US refuse to keep agreements that would have halted nuclear development in Iran or NK?
It just remained to determine the source. Now all that has to happen is for someone to turn up a link between the Israeli middlemen and American rocket technology. It can’t be ruled out that the N. Korea rockets may have come from dark American military sources via some very circular routes.
JGJG – very good post. Thank you. American rocket technology to Israeli middlemen to Ukraine to North Korea. Yep.
This seems very likely. I have also wondered about a Pakistan – NK weapons connection because each has been further advanced than the other in missiles vs. warheads. Israel likely obtained its nuclear weapons from the US SALT disarmament stockpiles, and may have had spares available at high prices.
I do not think the issue is the denuclearization of Nk, ( in fact the article and others like it suggest NK was set up to be rogue state by supplying NK with sufficient nuclear know-how and rocket engine technology to develop an model threat which propaganda, similar to Iraq WMDs, could be used to scare people NK is capable to deliver mayhem.
It looks to be a part of some kind of plan to get into position to develop and enforce a competition-free LNG market in the LNG gas and oil business ? Nearly every move: sanctions, threats, regime change, bombings identified by location, troops, arms sales, timing and intensity can be explained by reference to a market model that seeks to deny non-western monopoly owned gas (LNG) and oil providers any competitive space to participate in the oil and gas markets (think Tillerson, Kerry, Hillary)? (see http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-12/trump-warns-xi-trade-war-china-begins-Monday Trump Warns Xi: Trade War With China Begins Monday by Tyler Durden Aug 13, 2017 6:36 AM) and recall this link revealing link http://www.globalresearch.ca/has-narenda-modi-switched-sides/5603805.
In the NK case, threats made real by military show of strength could be used to force China into granting western LNG providers with assurances that China will not purchase oil and gas (LNG) from anyone by western owned providers, even if the price of oil and gas is cheaper from Qatar, Iran, Russia, Syria, and Yemen.
A successful use of characterizing NK as a nuclear threat, and using sanctions, and military buildup of Ukraine, India and Japan, might threaten China sufficiently to force them to agree not to buy oil and gas from a non western owned source.
I think the NK stink, is a shot fired in a war on open market competition and restricting oil and gas(LNG) buying rights.
You really should back up your hypothesis of US LNG as a basis of US policy, as it is costlier to move by ship and much further away than other sources and markets. If you suggest LNG business connections to policymakers, links would be needed.
See RT on LNG competition at https://www.rt.com/business/399893-russia-us-lng-europe-gas/
Well, while Robert focused on NK connection, Ukraine was a major source and transit point for weapons smuggling to Syria and Iraq financed by GCC through Ukrainian oligarchs.
In fact facing total collapse of economy and 70% collapse of currency in 2014/2015 Ukraine became a paradise for weapons dealers of the world with practically no sea or air border control.
This lawlessness and military massively selling their stockpiles to highest bidder prompted US threats to Kiev regime under moniker to stop “corruption” and hence ousting of Kolomoisky and paying off from IMF other Ukrainian oligarchs like Kutchma and Firtash.
This private theft of national treasury and illegal weapons dealing with NK and the world caused a spat between Russia and NK when Boy Un refused to take Russia’s side on Crimea question, claiming “territorial integrity of Ukraine” and now in last few days recalled his ambassador to Russia from Moscow to protest UN sanctions. The NYT did not include those inconvenient facts peddling innuendos and as usual empty accusations of Russia involvement in selling ICBM engines to NK.
Another issue is hundreds of Ukrainian nuclear weapon specialists unemployed or retired in Ukraine on a verge of starvation ready to take any job like consulting and teaching North Koreans the nuke weapon technology in Ukraine and NK.
In fact seemingly, among other reasons, the issue of NK ICBMs developed independently from China or Russia caused rare support for at least symbolic UN sanctions aimed specifically against ICBMs while calling to resume talks of disarmament of Korean peninsula.
Interesting that indiscriminate Ukraine weapons sales “prompted US threats to Kiev regime under moniker to stop “corruption” and hence ousting of Kolomoisky” and that NK “refused to take Russia’s side on Crimea question.” If you recall sources this would be helpful.
And this is not a first time when Ukraine was caught selling advanced weapons to terrorists and to military conflict’s areas, advanced anti-radar systems to Iraq, cruise missile X-55 to Iran, and tanks to Eritrea – so simply because they have a lot of leftovers after SU was dismantled. As a Ukrainian by roots a feel so sad about that coup and nazi glorification what happened these days, and about 10,000 people killed in a bloody civil war. That’s why i think article’s from Robert so important and valuable and must be widely spread.
This doesn’t surprise me and I suspect there are many other strategic parts to those No.Korean missiles that come from the free market profiteering of corporations in other Western countries, including the U.S..
The CIA and American government’s continuing love affair with Nazis, terrorists, and any evil people or groups they can team up with. It’s all coming home to America folks. The little fascist collaborators are all around us sharpening their knives, and honing their ugly skills. The useful idiots in Charlottesville are part of the ugly crew, but their are plenty in air conditioned offices also.
Yes, agreed. In the US Trump is trying to build a third proto fascist party. And it is growing. The Nazi meme resonates among many disenfranchised youth. And of course, the rise of fascism is global.
As Max Horkheimer once said:
‘Whoever is not prepared to talk about capitalism should also remain silent about fascism.’
Max Horkheimer (1939)
What nationality was Kruschev, and how many Ukranians was he responsible for their deaths.
The Ukraine was a very large part of Russian military heavy armaments and rocket and space construction industries.
At breakup of Soviet Union there were hundreds of nuclear warheads throughout. Ukraine, many still unaccouted for to thisbday.
Both Russian and Ukraine recieved tens of millions to destroy them.
When Germany invaded Ukrainians joined them and became Even worse butchers than SS, killing tens of thousands Jews and the opposition rebel fighters destrying whole villages of young and old.
Yes Stalin killed many Ukranians during war but , yes Kruschev was culpable as well, at end he rounded up untold #’s of NAZI and supporters and exterminated them.
Obviously he did not find them all.
Neo NAZI’s groups exist throughout many Euro nations but the heaviest #’s can be found in Norway, Finland and Sweden.
Germany’s Merkel damn well knew that by allowing such a huge number of Uncivilized ME and African immigrants that there would be a huge upsurge in Nationalist White Supremisist backlash. But more votes for ethnic Germans. Politicos.
Historicly UkrIne culture has dMn few redeeming graces and this can be seen today as they gleefully turned upon their centuries of side by side Russian eighbors.
One of the most virulent ant jewish natio s they gleefully took part in annual Jewish Pogroms
It wasn’t Merkel’s decision to make. Again, this was all orchestrated by the US. The US basically told told Germany that it would have to handle the influx or else. What the “or else” was/is I cannot say: I’d wager, however, that it has to do with other resources (energy being the key- if Germany didn’t play along then they’d subject themselves, and perhaps others in Europe, to diminished energy resources [for decades now the Big Game has been to create energy flows into Europe that were not controlled by Russia]).
From the first days of G W Bush presidency I sent emails informing his administration about this. I also sent copy’s to Obama when he was a Senator and then as President. Those warning’s about leakage from Ukraine/Russia’s military hardware that will increase nuclear capability is being sold to North Korea. At the same time I would send copy’s of those emails/letter’s for authenticity reasons. The N Y Times and other media out’s across the UK and America including Consortiumnes.com.
They simply wouldn’t take heed that is was happening and the dangers it brings in the future. Now they write about it when it’s too late.
Gordon.
Thank you for your statement Gordon Smith, I doubt that Robert Parry took your letter lightly, but I want you to know that plenty readers here will consider your efforts heroic. Many Thanks.
Do you recall sources of info on the unaccounted “hundreds of nuclear warheads throughout Ukraine” at the breakup of the USSR that may have ended up in Israel?
Who is the bully, the United States or North Korea? Is North Korea really going to fire a missile at the US? What does diplomacy mean for the US? I’ll explain it: North Korea gives up their weapons and the US gives up nothing. Do they want to be another victim of “regime change” to “take out” a “brutal dictator”?
That does describe the bully definition of diplomacy, so I’ll conclude that you identify the US as the bully.
The article well summarizes the potential blowbacks of US aggression, its harassment and threats on the borders of Russia, its support of extremist subversives, and its bribery-induced support of rogue states Israel and Saudi Arabia. It is very fitting that the Ukraine corruption may have enabled NK’s defense and deprived the US warmonger tyrants of a potential target.
It is also fitting blowback that the US invasion of Iraq, to break up the Iran/Iraq connection to Syria.Lebanon and Hezbollah, resulted in Shiite predominance in Iraq, jihadists discrediting themselves with Sunnis, the Iraq/Iran alliance, and alliance with Russia to restabilize the same Shiite crescent.
Also fitting blowback that the US loss in Syria and domestic oil production has diminished Saudi Arabia to negotiate with Iraq and Iran, hopefully weakening the Israel/Saudi bloc and leading to a Shia-Sunni alliance against Israel, the regional troublemaker.
Also fitting blowback that the US attempts to encircle China for no sane reason, have resulted in the alienation of the Philippines and S Korea, preferring cooperation to becoming buffer states for mad US proxy wars.
The most fitting blowback will be the inevitable challenges to the US in the western hemisphere, as it continues to try to dominate S and central America with threats and subversion operations. Russia and China may well protect those nations by making investments and trade deals that exclude the US. This will bring the blowback to our borders at last, showing the people of the US what frauds the warmongers are, who cried Wolf for a century and finally brought wolves to our doorstep..
I should say that crying communist Wolf for a century may at last bring capitalist wolves to our doorstep. Already Lavrov has said that a US invasion of Venezuela is unacceptable. The interest of China in the delayed Nicaragua canal project is uncertain, but Iran is interested, and China is building a very large port to assist in using the smaller Panama canal.
Clearly, blowback occurs not simply in military terms but in confusion and change in the tangled-web-we-weave relations meant to promote power and the globalist agenda. The juggling won’t always provide the fall-back themRussians themRussians did it again position for an excuse on what went astray, in terms of defense of the USA.
Alliances will fray and things will fall apart, the illusion factory will not hold. It’s probably not a good idea to set most of the globe against yourself while imbibing the hallucinogens you’re taking on “the one indispensable nation” and “the exceptional nation” justifications for your get rich quick and rule the globe schemes.
Some related website articles:
*shifting alliances here on Iran and Turkey striking a deal over Syria
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201708161056511457-iran-turkey-syria/
*Saudi Arabia and Iraq re-open border
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/saudi-arabia-reopen-border-iraq-27-years-170815173750439.html
*Saudi Arabia seeks ties with Iraq to mend ties with Iran
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/saudi-arabia-seeks-iraq-mend-ties-iran-170813151145632.html
*List of nations US has tried to overthrow or has overthrown over the past decades
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39625.htm
*600,000 Syrians returned home between January and July of this year
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47607.htm
My comment is waiting moderation at 1:39 p.m. I would ask why not allow the links to be posted and later delete the comment if the posted URL(s) are somehow against the rules? Whatever the rules are on this matter.
Again Consortium News provides us a close look at an issue improperly covered by US mass media.
Those who would like to petition the NYT to make Robert Parry their senior editor may do so here:
https://www.change.org/p/new-york-times-bring-a-new-editor-to-the-new-york-times?recruiter=72650402&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
While Mr. Parry may prefer independence, and we all know the NYT ownership makes it unlikely, and the NYT may try to ignore it, it is instructive to them that intelligent readers know better journalism when they see it. A petition demonstrates the concerns of a far larger number of potential or lost subscribers.
This is a better article than what Parry has put out recently, but NO WAY! Parry has his own problems and has been an active apologist for Trump. I will never give CN another penny but realize he does some important work. Some of the contributors are interesting and informative. Joe Laura is an idiot with his “Seth” bullshit and there are several…including Parry…who would turn “investigative news” into their own private vendetta.
Stiv, I’m sure that you have never contributed to this website; you always pretend to be a disappointed donor to get attention. Mr. Parry has never apologized for Trump beyond noting false criticisms, and often presents neglected stories, but not vendettas. Mr. Lauria’s examination of the Seth Rich evidence is necessary wherever it leads. You appear to be trying to keep the hillarists hysterical about Trump, so as to disrupt the left, and are wasting your time. Most readers here see the deeper story on both sides, and no one here is that dumb.
Certainly not calling anyone dumb. Pointing out opinion vs factual investigation. Yea, some of that appears here but so does a lot of bs. A lot! I prefer politico or several other outlets for real journalism..with historical background included. Party doesn’t cut it much of the time and read back..party wants to give trump a free ride on so many things it’s sickening. I’m not a clintonite but did recognise trump as a two bit tyrant. Parry has his head so far up his ass at times…no way would I put him as head of anything other that what he’s currently doing. A one note johnny…at risk of being one myself