Hillary Clinton Promised Wars, Too

Exclusive: President Trump has shattered the hope of many peace-oriented Americans that he would pull back from U.S. foreign interventions, but Hillary Clinton might have pursued even more wars, notes James W. Carden.

By James W. Carden

The alliance between neoconservatives and the Democratic foreign policy establishment, which is largely made up of former Obama administration officials and former Clinton campaign surrogates, has been much noted of late, particularly since the formation of the German Marshall Fund’s “Alliance for Democracy Project” which brings together high-profile members of both groups in an effort to fight what is loosely (and often inaccurately) defined as Russian “disinformation.”

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton addressing the AIPAC conference in Washington D.C. on March 21, 2016. (Photo credit: AIPAC)

Those who applaud the new alignment are quick to point out that Donald J. Trump who, by virtue of his volatile temperament and his alarming ignorance and inexperience, is a menace to his country and the planet. And at this stage in Mr. Trump’s presidency, that would seem unarguable.

And yet, Clinton partisans charge that those who withheld their support from Clinton not only bear responsibility for Trump, but also had no right to do so since it was, according to them, obvious that Clinton would have been, among other things, a more responsible steward of U.S. foreign policy than Trump.

And so, given the extreme bitterness that Hillary Clinton’s loss has engendered among a number of prominent members of the liberal commentariat, it might be worth looking at what her campaign promised with regard to foreign policy to see if the above criticism holds water.

The argument here isn’t that Trump isn’t awful (which is something I’ve never argued); it’s that he’s proven to be every bit as bad as some of us reasonably expected Clinton would have been; and if one takes the time to consult the Clinton campaign’s own briefing papers and fact sheets, one will find that on issue after issue, Clinton invariably took hawkish positions that reflected the fact that Clinton was (and remains) a saber-rattler par excellence – very much on par with the current occupant of the White House.

When North Korea conducted a nuclear test in September 2016, she released a statement, if not quite promising “fire and fury,” that did declare: “North Korea’s decision to conduct another nuclear test is outrageous and unacceptable. … This constitutes a direct threat to the United States, and we cannot and will never accept this.”

No Regrets on ‘Regime Change’

Beyond that, Clinton remained a firm believer in regime-change strategies. On Syria, the Clinton campaign “proposed instituting a coalition no-fly zone in the air coupled with safe zones on the ground to protect Syrian civilians and create leverage for a diplomatic resolution that includes Assad’s departure.” She supported the “deployment of special operating forces to Syria” and “strongly urged President Obama to arm moderate rebels in support of the eventual removal of the brutal Assad regime.”

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump speaking to the AIPAC conference in Washington D.C. on March 21, 2016. (Photo credit: AIPAC)

Clinton also favored escalation in other hot spots. On Iran, the Clinton campaign outlined “a plan to counter Iran’s other malicious behavior” which included pledges to “deepen America’s unshakeable commitment to Israel’s security”; “expand our military presence in the region”; “increase security cooperation in areas like intelligence sharing, military backing and missile defense with our Gulf allies, to ensure they can defend themselves against Iranian aggression”; and “build a coalition to counter Iran’s proxies.”

When we also factor in Clinton’s support for the NATO’s illegal airstrikes on Kosovo (1999), her vote to authorize the second Iraq War (2003), her enthusiastic support for sending more troops to fight and die in Afghanistan (2009), and her disastrous embrace of regime change in Libya (2011) and Syria (2012), how can anyone be sure that her administration’s foreign policy would have been much of an improvement over what we now have?

Indeed, those who threw their support behind Clinton’s vision of American world leadership, like those associated with the “Alliance for Democracy,” really, with the notable exception of Trump’s abandonment of the Paris Climate Accord, have little to complain about.

Trump has done much as Clinton would have done by, among other things: slapping sanctions on Russia, Iran and North Korea; pledging unlimited support to Israel; reassuring “our allies” in the Persian Gulf and eastern Europe; condemning Russia’s actions in eastern Ukraine; expanding military operations in eastern Syria; and lobbing none-to-veiled threats at the left-wing government in Venezuela.

So while it’s easy and almost certainly emotionally satisfying to the legions of Clinton supporters to tell themselves (and their readers) that of course Hillary would have been a better of steward of U.S. foreign policy than Trump, that assertion remains both unprovable and, given her record, highly questionable.

James W. Carden served as an adviser on Russia policy at the US State Department. Currently a contributing writer at The Nation magazine, his work has appeared in the Los Angeles Times, Quartz, The American Conservative and The National Interest.

141 comments for “Hillary Clinton Promised Wars, Too

  1. August 20, 2017 at 22:12

    Oh yeah, she not only promised war, she delivered, but there’s the rub… It turned out to be a second rate endeavor with a surprise:. The Clintonistas apparently thought Putin and Russia continue to take it in the neck for fear of touching off WWIII, which the U.S. was projected to win….. Just as they were to give Trump a McGovern moment! But something happened on the way to their ticker tape parade: The Russians seized Crimea.. So much for cost free regime change & for those of us keeping SCORE, its ,Putin one, Clinton Zero…

  2. Zhu Bajie
    August 18, 2017 at 21:35

    No matter who is elected Pres., nothing important ever changes — certainly not the commitment to constant warfare.

  3. Christopher Condon
    August 18, 2017 at 11:46

    Many people tend to vote for the peace candidate in presidential elections. The problem with this approach is that it is very difficult to know who the peace candidate is. It is extremely difficult to predict the foreign policy of an incoming president. For example, the two George Bushes were thought by many to be timid and unwilling to involve the United States in foreign wars. We saw how that worked out. Lyndon Johnson ran as the peace candidate against warmonger Goldwater. That didn’t work out well either. Many people thought Richard Nixon would triple the military budget and start WWIII. It didn’t happen.

  4. John
    August 18, 2017 at 10:56

    She might have been a little more circumspect re nuclear Armageddon. OTOH I bet the Donald has fewer boots on fewer foreign lands than herself would have had by this time.

  5. Mike
    August 18, 2017 at 10:27

    As Trump has proudly proclaimed, he won. So why all the concern about what Hillary would have done? Deal with the current problem in the White House rather that sit back and muse about alternate realities. That doesn’t change a damned thing. Stroke your chin while the man-baby yells at another world leader, or calls someone else a “loser” on Twitter.

  6. August 18, 2017 at 07:04

    History is what actually happens. It does not tolerate nonsensical speculations of what might happen.

  7. August 17, 2017 at 13:17

    Readers be aware that some people’s comments don’t add to the discussion but seem to exist with the
    sole purpose of destroying the the conversation by putting other readers down. It’s negativity that is best
    ignored. People are on to you Bob S. I don’t appreciate your method of discussion and will ignore it. It is
    not constructive and doesn’t contribute anything positive to the discussion. I’ve noticed that you are all over
    this website, commenting negatively to many articles,insulting writers. Have you nothing better to do or is this
    your living?

  8. Gregor
    August 17, 2017 at 12:47

    Readers and comment writers, beware of Bob S. He is negative an destructive. I see that he is now commenting on various
    articles on CN.com. It seems that his purpose is to destroy the discussion by insulting other people offering comments. It is best to ignore his comments. They don’t contribute. They only try to inflict personal hurt and are not constructive. It seems his purpose is to destroy intelligent discussion on CN.com. Read them, be aware of their purpose, and move on with the discussion as if he had never said anything.

  9. John
    August 17, 2017 at 08:52

    “We came, we saw, he died!” Hillary was famous for this phrase regarding the Libyan leader who was killed by a mob …

  10. Drogon
    August 16, 2017 at 19:02

    In case you didn’t notice, Hillary Clinton didn’t win. Please, feel free to start criticizing the monster who’s President and stop worrying about the monster who isn’t.

    • turk151
      August 16, 2017 at 20:35

      Good point, but there is a certain Freddy Kruegeresque quality to her, so we need to be sure

      • Gregory Herr
        August 16, 2017 at 22:20

        Perish the thought!
        Good one, turk

  11. August 16, 2017 at 17:16

    Thanks for the correction on Serbia, Realist, and your comment about the attempts by media and government forces to “pound Trump” into submission were on the mark. They succeeded.

    I am glad to see you back, mike, but I don’t see that Trump is the apex of the problem. It’s the entire government and corporate capitalist structure that’s killing us and earth. Gangsters have taken over, as Stephen J aptly reminds us.

  12. August 16, 2017 at 16:32

    I recommend that BobS read “The Autobiography of Martin Luther King, Jr.” edited by Claybourne Carson, 1998. A great gift to understand what it means to strive to be a great human being. You sound like a little boy having a temper tantrum because you can’t get your way, BobS.

  13. Tim
    August 16, 2017 at 11:46

    Clinton was all for regime change in Ukraine and a financially desperate rocket factory has upgraded N. Korea (So rocket experts ask how many engines do they have now?) Clinton and Trump are like a pistol with 2 bullets in it and we’re the ones playing Russian roulette. Clinton is all about continuing to make policy to carry out the Neocon plans and Trump is playing at being President.

  14. Bruce
    August 16, 2017 at 07:10

    BobS is most likely a paid disruptor, best to ignore him.

    • Joe Tedesky
      August 16, 2017 at 11:48

      Bruce what BobS is missing, is that almost everyone who visits this comment board are here for the conversation. No one has to agree with each other, but polite civility is important to if we are ever to travel through our many controversial issues, we all encounter in our societies life. Although probably BobS does know that, it is ashame that he misses out on carrying on a decent conversation with people from all over this globe. What an opportunity loss, for BobS that is, and what a terrific gain for the rest of us to enjoy, and respect other people’s opinion and view points. The best thing to be said about trolls such as BobS, is they break up the monotony.

      • BobS
        August 16, 2017 at 12:59

        “it is ashame(sic) that he misses out on carrying on a decent conversation with people from all over this globe”

        consortiumnews.com thread “decent conversation”:
        Bruce: (gasp) DEEP STATE? WHATABOUT HILLARY?
        Joe: Where’s my unicorn?
        Bruce: I like pie.

  15. Michael Kenny
    August 16, 2017 at 05:34

    The interesting thing, taken together with Paul Pilar’s article of yesterday, is the “Trump must go” logic, coming, in both cases, from people who claim to be Trump supporters disappointed that he hasn’t lived up to what they say were his election pledges in regard to Putin.

    • mike k
      August 16, 2017 at 08:19

      Do not feed this troll.

    • BobS
      August 16, 2017 at 12:51

      Their disappointment is understandable.
      After all, there was nothing in Trump’s history to suggest dishonesty or disloyalty.

  16. August 16, 2017 at 00:47

    No presidential candidate gets my vote if s/he is a war criminal or war criminal wannabe. I experienced war up close and personal in Viet Nam, for 27 months plus one day. War is unadulterated Evil. I can’t vote for anyone who is pro-war.

    • mike k
      August 16, 2017 at 08:18

      Thanks Paul. I admire your policy.

  17. August 15, 2017 at 20:18

    I second the request of a commenter that we need an article by CN on Venezuela. What’s going on there is a CIA regime change operation.

  18. exiled off mainstreet
    August 15, 2017 at 20:17

    No matter how bad it is now, we might not still be here had the harpy got in. Her foreign policy can be encapsulated as war everywhere, including on behalf of our jihadi associates in Libya and Syria. Nuclear war on behalf of barbarians does not seem to be the way things should end on this planet.

    • BobS
      August 16, 2017 at 00:06

      “No matter how bad it is now, we might not still be here had the harpy got in.”
      That would indeed be bad. On the other hand, the good news is that you wouldn’t be here.

      • mike k
        August 16, 2017 at 08:21

        Do not feed this troll.

  19. mike k
    August 15, 2017 at 20:15

    There is nobody white or black or yellow. We are all naked apes who happened to learn a few tricks. There are no colors, there is only everything as it is.

  20. mike k
    August 15, 2017 at 20:10

    White America has lost it’s soul by hanging on to it’s whiteness. I renounce whatever color it is that people see. I am a colorless man.

  21. Zachary Smith
    August 15, 2017 at 19:59

    When we also factor in Clinton’s support for the NATO’s illegal airstrikes on Kosovo (1999)….

    I hadn’t known that, and after a search found more:

    As Gail Sheehy pointed out in her biography of Hillary, it was Mrs. Clinton who hectored her husband into bowing to a chorus of neoconservative and liberal interventionist voices and finally giving the order to bomb the former Yugoslavia.


    I’ve been plenty unhappy with Presidential Daughter Ivanka being responsible for the 59-cruise missile attack which killed a couple dozen people and wasted a lot of money.

    By comparison Ivanka looks like a saint, for Presidential Wife Hillary set off a chain of events which killed thousands.

    Even now that it’s becoming universally well known how bad DJT is as President, I’m still more comfortable with him than the murderous ***** Hillary. And I continue to count my lucky stars I don’t have my personal fingerprints on either one of them in the voting box.

    The Democratic National Committee is as responsible as anyone else for Trump being in the White House because it forced voters to choose between two horrors.

    A big thanks to the author for this informative essay.

  22. Mild-ly Faticious
    August 15, 2017 at 19:54

    Trump’s lust

    After tar sand oil
    Gulf of Mexico oil
    Dakota Native oil
    Cali Coastal oil
    Eskimo/Alaska oil
    Saudia Arabia oil
    Russia territorial
    Usbekistan oil
    Norwegian oil
    Venezuela oil

    After Oil is said
    and done,
    the lusts
    of the flesh
    the lust
    of the eyes and
    Pride of Life
    inform White Power
    imperatives to
    Own & Control as
    Dominant Authority.


  23. August 15, 2017 at 19:45

    With a system so corrupt as this one, is it any wonder we get the results we did? The last president with integrity since JFK we had here was, I believe, Jimmy Carter, but he got so taken over by Brzezinski and the Trilateralists, the Rockefeller New World Order corporatists, that the Deep State became even more entrenched, a position from which we have never emerged.

    The Clintons pushed the Democrats so far right that they have never swung back. Thomas Frank’s “Listen, Liberal” does a great and witty job of explaining this. Hillary Clinton was the impetus for Bill’s bombing of Kosovo, when the Lewinsky affair was taking him down. I speculate that Hillary is the power behind the Clinton decisions while Bill has (had) the great political schmooze talent. Hillary has no qualms about lying, as she is set to do in her new book, coming out in a few weeks, about why she lost the election. The same old tired excuse, Russia and Comey. How people can still fall for her excuses is beyond me, except for Rodrigo Duterte’s statement that 3 out of 5 Americans are idiots.

    This US political system is so corrupt that I don’t see any redemption for it. And our planet is so imperiled that I fear even for the immediate future. If the US permanent war state cannot be ended, so that there could be desire for peace and cooperation between nations, what hope is there?

    When we lost JFK, we lost a great President who truly desired peace. I fear that Trump will be pressured not to release the papers on the JFK assassination in October. That is how much power the CIA has.

    • Gregory Herr
      August 15, 2017 at 22:19

      I feel the same way about President Kennedy.

      • Virginia
        August 16, 2017 at 00:45

        Me, too, Jessica and Gregory! Had he lived and done away with the CIA, what a different world!

        Hopefully BobS doesn’t think that just because we turned away from Hillary we “stayed with” the Democratic Party. Lots of us didn’t!

        Hopefully BobS doesn’t think we’re in love with Trump! Not!

        Not sure that many/any of us here can be pigeonholed anymore, but it appears we do know what we want. And believe it or not, we’re seen working for it. Love, peace, fairness, justice, unselfishness, …an end to corruption! Well, that could go on and on, so I’ll just leave it there.

    • Realist
      August 16, 2017 at 03:14

      You remind us of a lot of important facts that most people probably have forgotten, Jessica. One correction, Bill bombed Serbia– to extract Kosovo from that country and turn it over to mostly Albanian international gangsters who allowed the U.S. to build one of its largest military bases in Europe (Camp Bondsteel).

  24. August 15, 2017 at 17:33


    Have you even read into Hillary’s emails? Or Podesta’s? You know, the ones that were LEAKED by a DNC insider that handed the info to the former ambassador from England? I politely suggest you sit down and start. But one word of warning; expect to get angry at what she truly represents. Or not given your disposition that is apparent in your comments…

    Have you read her voting record as a public figure? Or her statements, her threats, and the rest of her psychopathic behavior patterns going back decades?

    Yes, Trump has the same personality disorder signatures in his behavior, too. Doesn’t make him worse, just makes him the winner over the worst possible Democrat candidate imaginable. The wealthy who own the DNC corporation would rather have Trump than Sanders. You do realize this, don’t you?

    By now, 6 months into Hillary’s term, there would probably be tens of thousands of US troops lining the Ukraine border. And in Syria. Or maybe a few ‘limited nuclear strikes’ might have already happened.

    Of course all it would take is about 100 of the little Hiroshima firecrackers according to the 2015 Rutgers study to completely block the sunlight in the Northern Hemisphere for decades while wiping the ozone layer completely out according to that. No crops growing, no uncontaminated rain.

    Nobody has any missiles that small anymore by the way…think about what that means for a second.

    BobS, you need to read back into the Tom Tomorrow and Sparky cartoon history to get a better grasp on reality. Or maybe just the last couple of books called ‘Too Much Crazy’ and ‘Crazy is the New Normal,’ It will at least help you adjust to reality that you don’t seem to have a very good grasp on. Just a suggestion you understand, to help with your critical thinking skill building project.

    Joe T: Last number I read was that 47% of the eligible voters in this last election did not vote for either of these two violently insane individuals. They either left the boxes blank on the ballot, or just stayed home. We will never have a truly open election until there is a box with the words “NONE OF THE ABOVE” after every single grouping of candidates. Or propositions for that matter. And a national work holiday on election day. Poor people don’t get days off to vote.

    To have real election means being free to say We Are Not That Stupid. Unfortunately voting for Hillary or Trump proved the opposite…

    • Joe Tedesky
      August 16, 2017 at 21:38

      Thanks for reminding me about the voter turnout of this past 2016 presidential election. I seem to recall at the time, was that if you took into consideration the votes that both Hillary and Donald got, and figured in the voters that voted more against the other candidate than they voted with true support of the candidate they voted for, then both presidential candidates may possibly have had about 10% of true supporters…I don’t know what that means. I do know this, and that is our country is certainly divided at this moment. I would say, that we are probably back to the 60’s and the Vietnam era, or maybe worst, and that’s not good. Thanks for the comment sealintheSelkirks. Joe

  25. August 15, 2017 at 17:10

    When War Criminals Run Countries

    When war criminals run countries, there are endless wars
    Armies are used as hit men creating carnage and gore
    It doesn’t matter who is elected or attains “democratic” power
    The criminals will still be in control, and will continue to flower

    The masses think a “new day is dawning” but is it really all a façade?
    Is the “new beginning,” just the old in new attire; is it all so very sad?
    The same people that cause all the problems get powerful “new positions”
    This is called “democracy at work” with all its “nice traditions”

    Still, the people believe “change” is coming and hope springs anew
    But, behind the scenes the criminals are laughing, if only the people knew
    Eventually they will realize, it’s all a phony staged reality
    They still have all the poverty and wars, and all the imposed brutality

    Politics is just a dirty game where the people get to place an X
    This gives those who get the power, control over their docile “subjects”
    The people are taxed and taxed, then taxed again, and more and more
    Then send their sons and daughters to fight in planned endless bloody wars

    Still, carnage and destruction creates “jobs,” and “jobs” is the magic word
    The world is a great big stage in “the theatre of the absurd”
    As long as the willing “audience” is kept happy and content
    There will be no complaints, or any loud “unpatriotic” dissent

    And so the system continues with all its “pomp” and power
    Propaganda is promoted daily and by the passing hour
    Promises and more promises paid for with taxpayers monies
    Is this what is happening today, when war criminals run countries?…

    [more info at link below]


  26. Robert Schwartz
    August 15, 2017 at 17:01

    August 15, 2017 at 4:12 pm
    “Nothing that Trump does makes Hillary less of a potential threat.
    CN forum stock answer #2: ‘But whatabout Hillary? Huh? Huh? Whatabout Hillary?’

    What about Hillary, indeed?

    Only this much…. If the Democrats try to continue their collusion with the neocons like the Nuland/Kagan/McCain crowd, and expect support from any thinking individual who has watched the world spiral into unnecessary violence for profit, they will continue to hemorrhage members of the party as they have for decades now, losing not only the presidency to a racist buffoon, but both houses of congress, state legislatures and governorships as well.

    That’s what.


  27. Andrew
    August 15, 2017 at 16:50

    Turn to the left and you see HRC: Take a shot.
    Turn to the right and you see Trump: Take a shot
    Turn to the left…. repeat.

  28. Virginia
    August 15, 2017 at 15:55

    Here’s a letter I sent to Hillary, if anyone cares to read it:

    “Dear Secretary Clinton: “Re: A message you need to hear

    “This is from a long-time admirer of yours, but one who turned against you during the campaign of 2015-16. If you can hear it, I’d like to give you a brief outline of my own thinking — which could be the thinking of many:

    “I was sorely disappointed in how the Democrats, news commentators, and others treated you, as a woman, in your run for President, 2008. I, too, am a woman, but would have disliked their treating anyone as they did you. I didn’t want you to run for 2016, thinking it would be so hard to go through “that” again. You decided to and you had my full support.

    “But early on I saw that Tulsi Gabbard was right, that the DNC was steering its support behind you and not treating Sanders either respectfully or fairly. I applauded her statement, made by her resignation.

    “Then, in a couple of debates, I saw trickery on your part when you brought up bills that Sanders had voted for or against that he would have difficulty recalling because, in actuality, he voted as he did for “different” reasons than the isolated arguments you were spotlighting. I really hated your trickery and the underhandedness. By contrast, Bernie was playing fair and square.

    “Then, when the first caucus took place (or second — I’m not going to go back and research every point, but wish to give just the general ideas; please forgive any inexactness) — there were six groups that had one vote undecided; each group gave that vote to you. That didn’t seem fair. Then, in another caucus, you won by what, half a point? Well, the world would have thought you won by a land slide in both cases! When the primary votes were tallied, you had 270(?) votes, which right away, immediately, included superdelegates. Already, the unfairness was out there loud and clear! Wouldn’t it have been fairer to hold off on tallying those outside votes, to give the citizens of this country a voice first at least? And the outrageous illegalities in many state primaries! Where I live, CA, you called victory before 1.7(?) million votes were counted! You called it the day before the CA primary was held, to steer those away from the polls who might vote for Bernie. Whew!

    “Way before all this I found myself turning away from you. I found myself talking with friends and acquaintances against you whereas I had been your chief defender in so many instances. I found myself aligning with Bernie on practically everything, especially TPP (which, to great dismay, you and Obama refused to agree to “be against” in the DNC platform. Which, I might as well say now, was unfair when you allowed so few of Sander’s people to participate, and then didn’t give them much at all. Oh, well!)

    “Early I began to see your “plants” in the news, on TV, in blogs; your obsequious defenders, whom, I was to learn, were often paid and on your campaign staff. I caught on that it was your propaganda: “A vote for Bernie is a vote wasted!” “Bernie can’t win!” And this was so telling: the same day news broke Trump’s comments to Billy Bush, Wikileaks broke damaging news about you. I switched between all the cable news channels repeatedly and THE ONLY CHANNEL reporting BOTH NEWS STORIES was FOX. I couldn’t believe it. You had not only your plants, but cable news corporations — and they’re still in your/Obama’s pocket. So sad! I never watched FOX before. Now guess which channel I admire and support, as does much of the population.

    “You don’t need to know who I am, so name withheld; however, I have met you at Emily’s List events. I thought you were the most wonderful, beautiful, brightest light I’d ever had the privilege to meet. I expected so much, and you could have delivered. But you became, and are, corrupt, so corrupt, as Wikileaks exposed. I’m not sure you can hear this now, but I hope you will try. It’s your only hope — not to run for office, not to be in the public, but for your salvation. It’s hard to listen when one is where you are. Please try. It’s important, and this is my last ditch effort with any vestige of support for you — which will never be there for any role in public life!” Sincerely,

    • BobS
      August 15, 2017 at 16:15

      A letter.
      To an unsuccessful presidential candidate.
      You’re changing the world with your activism.

      • mike k
        August 15, 2017 at 16:45

        An important article on North Korean nuclear capability, including evaluations by Dr. Ted Postol:


        • BobS
          August 15, 2017 at 17:17

          Thank you for the link to a magazine I’ve read (and subscribed to) since the 1990’s.
          Fortunately/unfortunately for people in Asia and the Pacific, the world is bigger than the United States.

      • Joe Tedesky
        August 15, 2017 at 16:55

        Hey Bob leave Virginia alone. At least Virginia has enough of street smarts to know that the odds of winning six consecutive coin tosses are like 1.56%, so do you ever feel that lucky, well Hillary does, and Virginia didn’t fall for it. But you my fiery friend missed it completely, or you didn’t care. So quit with the insults Bob, and talk to us. Believe it or not, we are you Bob, so stop and join in on the conversation, and don’t disrupt these good and caring posters with your biting and offensive remarks, if you can. Your actions don’t speak well of Hillary supporters, or are you a Trump troll?


        • mike k
          August 15, 2017 at 17:00

          Thanks Joe. Well said.

        • BobS
          August 15, 2017 at 17:14

          “Hey Bob leave Virginia alone. At least Virginia has enough of street smarts”

          Frankly Joe, ‘street-smarts’ is about the last thing I’d accuse your ‘politics is about purity, not power’ crowd of having.

          • Gregory Herr
            August 15, 2017 at 22:13

            Joe is right. But he’s too good of a gentlemen to be as smarmy and dismissive to you as you were to Virginia. Virginia shared a cogent delineation of much of what was wrong with the Clinton campaign. And after all, the original article is about Clinton. If something in Virginia’s post strikes you as untrue or misleading, say so. But demeaning for the sake of demeaning is offensive.
            And your generalization lacks sense and accuracy. We know all too well the nature of politics

          • Joe Tedesky
            August 15, 2017 at 22:47

            ” I’d accuse your ‘politics is about purity, not power’ crowd of having”

            Okay, I get it. My ‘politics is about purity, and not about power’, right? But what do you mean when you say, ‘crowd of having’. So I’m about purity, and not about power, but I lose you with the ‘crowd of having’ part.

            I know your busy typing fast, and writing comments quickly, is always a task of trying to use the right words, and then there’s the spell check thing, but Bob please try to convey a comprehensive thought when writing your angry comments. Possibly it’s hard to type when your mind drifts off to other things, like I mention in my continuation of this comment here.

            Oh and Bob I’m seriously worried that you have a closeted fetish with (I hate to say it) ‘circle jerking’. I can testify to this, that most of us who write on this site, are way beyond our years to desire our participating in any such event. If even there were a few circle jerkers among us, well at least they would I’m sure have the manners not to bring it up, as often as you do at such inappropriate times when you bring up this group action, and it makes you embarrassing appear as though you also lose control of yourself with your bringing it up so much. Your fascination with this group masturbation thing leaves me to believe I should not talk about it so much, as it might trigger something off inside you, and none of us are prepared to deal with that.

            Growing up on the streets of Pittsburgh we had a name for guys like you, it’s called being a ‘jagoff’. I’ll leave you Bob too get a Pittsburghese dictionary to learn more about what the word ‘Jagoff’ stands for. Until then, read some Emily Post. Joe

          • BobS
            August 16, 2017 at 00:17

            “I know your busy typing fast, and writing comments quickly, is always a task of trying to use the right words”
            “I’ll leave you Bob too get a Pittsburghese dictionary”
            Right words like ‘irony’?
            Or is it just that you’re typing your comment too fast?
            And speaking of dictionaries, you might want to pick up one or two for yourself, too.

          • Joe Tedesky
            August 16, 2017 at 09:18

            To BobS

            “I know your busy typing fast, and writing comments quickly, is always a task of trying to use the right words”
            “I’ll leave you Bob too get a Pittsburghese dictionary”
            Right words like ‘irony’?
            Or is it just that you’re typing your comment too fast?
            And speaking of dictionaries, you might want to pick up one or two for yourself, too.

    • mike k
      August 15, 2017 at 16:59

      Thanks for sharing that Virginia.

      • Virginia
        August 16, 2017 at 00:37

        Gregory, Joe, Mike — You guys are great!

        BobS — Hard to see it, but Purity IS Power.

  29. mike k
    August 15, 2017 at 14:35

    World leaders know now that agreements and treaties with the US are not worth the paper they are written on. The exceptional would-be hegemon and world Ruler does what it pleases regardless of any promises or guarantees it may offer. Truth and good faith are just ploys for the US to gain some advantage. As in the reality show Survivor, a deal is just a prelude to stabbing your victim in the back.

  30. mike k
    August 15, 2017 at 14:27

    For those who manage to convince themselves that Trump is a force for peace, read this link. Then tell me how his actions toward Iran promote peace?


  31. August 15, 2017 at 14:20

    Here’s the difference between Trump and the Kerry/Obama/Clinton/Biden/Booker/Harris alternative.

    The President sits in a room with the top brass of the military industrial complex. They explain to him how dangerous the ‘enemy’ is and what steps the U.S. must take, which includes loads of overwhelming force. The bottom line always is that the U.S. must be ready and willing to go in and destroy a country.

    Kerry/Obama/Clinton/Biden/Booker/Harris as president listens, agrees, and goes out to the public and makes a nuanced, urbane statement with the right rhetorical flourishes expressing this either filled with lots of references to America’s commitment to human rights and the responsibility to protect or with hoards of wonkish facts and figures (if it’s Kerry or Clinton.)

    The establishment applauds the president, the press nods in stern agreement, the public ignores it our posts memes about how good it is to have an urbane president or a ‘compassionate’ president or an intelligent president.

    Trump is convinced by the brass and goes out and says exactly what they told him in blunt, simplistic, third grade type language.

    The establishment is horrified, the press goes insane, the public is up in arms demanding he be removed or, his base, demanding we go nuke the enemy now, and memes are posted about how terrible it is we have a narcissistic, baby-man, cheeto, loose cannon in the White House and how he needs to be impeached now.

    The content is the same; the style is different. That’s all.

    • Gregory Herr
      August 15, 2017 at 21:49

      Kind of like nutritionally valueless sugar-coated food, sugar-coated content is what the people want…so they don’t have to taste (the truth of) what’s underneath.

    • Joe Tedesky
      August 15, 2017 at 22:15

      It’s like the old vaudeville team of ‘Sid & Rose’ once told me, ‘it’s all in the delivery, sonny’.

  32. Drew Hunkins
    August 15, 2017 at 14:18

    “but Hillary Clinton might have pursued even more wars,”

    Might? Why is there any doubt? She called for a “no-fly zone” in Syria, which was an ostensible declaration of war against Russia. She obliterated Libya and was a major cheerleader for the obliteration of Iraq and Yugoslavia while her lieutenants were the brains behind the coup in Kiev.

    • Brad Owen
      August 15, 2017 at 15:56

      Yes. The first step in fixing the World’s problems is to NOT blow it up, and Clinton represents the short fuse to total, witless, annihilation.

      • BobS
        August 15, 2017 at 16:13

        #2 ‘But whatabout Hillary? Huh? Huh? Whatabout Hillary?’

        • DFH1
          August 16, 2017 at 02:11

          I’ve enjoyed reading your comments, BobS. This site rally needs to change its name to “Whataboutism.com” because that, and the odd Seth Rich conspiracy garbage, is pretty much what this once respected site has become.

          It’s too bad, I once enjoyed reading it.

          How any rational person could listen to Trump during the election, listen to him speaking of using torture, of taking Iraq’s oil or Gems from Afghanistan, of wondering why we have nukes if we can’t use them, of killing the families of ISIL members, not to mention his obvious support for white supremacist groups, misogyny, and clear corruption, and come to the conclusion that Hillary might be worse demonstrates levels of cognitive dissonance that are off the charts.

          It’s sad.

          • Brad Owen
            August 16, 2017 at 05:13

            Oh it’s so sad, boo-hoo. Yeah, maybe THAT’LL get people to stop reading CN commentary.

    • Christopher Condon
      August 18, 2017 at 12:02

      Like many people, you chose Trump over Hillary because on the basis of what we knew going into the election, Trump seemed less hawkish than Hillary. I made the same decision that you did. I was not quite sure of myself, however, because historically it has been very difficult to predict what the foreign policy of a new president is going to be. Unfortunately, I see no way around this. Pundits like you read on this website can give you some guidance on this matter, but even their prognostications are not worth much.

  33. SteveK9
    August 15, 2017 at 13:38

    ‘Trump has done much as Clinton would have done by, among other things: slapping sanctions on Russia, Iran and North Korea’.

    That was not Trump, that was the establishment (otherwise known as the war party or the ‘Israel-first party’).

    I doubt we would have had ‘de-escalation’ zones in Syria with Russia and Jordan as guarantors, if Clinton had been President.

    True, this isn’t much consolation given the expectations. Go back and read Trump’s Inaugural Speech, which was filled with positive sentiments. The swamp has drained him.

    • BobS
      August 15, 2017 at 13:48

      “Go back and read Trump’s Inaugural Speech, which was filled with positive sentiments”

      You’ve sent money to Nigerian princes who’ve promised you a share of their fortunes, haven’t you?

      • SteveK9
        August 15, 2017 at 18:01

        You are a very strange person, Bob. You are going to have to untie that one for me. Or, maybe I need to be dosed with whatever you are taking.

        • BobS
          August 15, 2017 at 21:35

          You’re what grifters like Trump refer to as a ‘mark’.

    • Mild-ly Faticious
      August 15, 2017 at 14:51

      “SteveK9” — The swamp has drained him.

      You’ve got stars in your eyes, Dog.
      Trump, out of simple jealousy,
      self-attached to Obama’s coattail

      and w/loud derision made himself
      the father of the birther movement
      a self-declared Overseer/Superior.

      The man now serving as US President
      spent 8yrs petulantly/publicly dogging
      who is proving to be the MuchBetter Man.

      “the swamp” hasn’t drained him
      he’s spent his Political Capital
      now faces his deserving wrath

      (I pity the fool).


      tangled tales or knotted tails
      it’s woe to us as gordian knot

      is severed by Manhattan Project
      realist? ordained mathematicians

      these Close Encounter theorist
      explore boundaries of Patterns

      and uncover nuclear science
      and keys to Total Destruction.

      mankind steps into tomorrow
      a technocratic era w/ open spaces

      some will survive the onslaught of
      Elimination Proceedings/Moving On

      past interjections of GMOs inserted into
      “our daily bread” without resistance.

      Adler opens other places& spaces
      of cognitive liberty w/Nierenberg
      solving problems w/o beneficiaries.

      (just for truth) Has truth died?
      honesty rejected as irrelevant
      in humanity’s post modern world?

      the knot tightens & we lose air
      breath is fundamental to life
      it was Breathed into our nostrils.

  34. August 15, 2017 at 12:57

    In all due respect to the many cogent arguments about the hypothetical Hillary vs the unstable Donald let’s move on. I would like to see some articles about Venezuela, internal European politics and economic issues.

  35. Karl Sanchez
    August 15, 2017 at 12:35

    I see it rather simply: HRC was the Deep State/CIA’s candidate; Trump wasn’t; thus the political mayhem and multiple gross absurdities since his election. Trump’s belligerent statements are the equivalent of throwing meat to the voracious animalistic War Party, but from which nothing of consequence will occur–Taming the Dogs of War if you will. Disclosure: In my pre-election analysis, I declared Trump to be the lesser of two evils, yet voted for Stein.

    • BobS
      August 15, 2017 at 12:52

      You’re right- your understanding of the reality of politics and power (and the effect of that power, e.g. voting rights, reproductive rights, right to workplace organization, etc. on unpowerful people) is rather simple.
      Not unlike Stein.

      • Brad Owen
        August 15, 2017 at 14:25

        Truth is simple. Deceit and obfuscation is complex.

      • Robert Schwartz
        August 15, 2017 at 14:43

        Your list of topics, voting rights, etc., need to be defended as policies, no doubt, but they are not the be all and end all of existential questions when the overriding issue of potential conflict between nuclear nations looms large.

        In addition, the Clinton record is piss poor on labor, minority rights, the PATRIOT ACT, corporatism in general. We can look at the initial funding sources of the DLC to explore that in more detail: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Democratic_Leadership_Council

        The last point to make here would be to highlight the reply the DNC sent to the Nation magazine in response to their covering the VIPS assertions in re: hacks vs leaks. Who you going to believe, the intelligence services whose very raison d’etre has always been prevarication or the whistleblowers, some of whom have been indicted/incarcerated for their truth telling?

        • BobS
          August 15, 2017 at 15:01

          they are not the be all and end all of existential questions”

          Good thing that Trump hasn’t demonstrated an adolescent’s impulsiveness with respect to North Korea (as well as the JCPOA).
          Good thing too that climate change isn’t one of your “existential questions”, given the deniers populating his administration (and Republican Party, in general).
          I agree that “the Clinton record is piss poor on labor, minority rights, the PATRIOT ACT, corporatism in general”. But to pretend that Trump is not a magnitude of order worse is simply willful ignorance. The ‘dimes worth of difference’ between Democrats and Republicans (and silver dollars worth in the case of Clinton and Trump) is significant to people who suffer the consequences.

          • Robert Schwartz
            August 15, 2017 at 16:02

            Nothing that Trump does makes Hillary less of a potential threat. Period. Trump is awful; he was also pushed into the position by media collusion w/the Clinton camp. 24/7 coverage at the expense of other candidates, and they refused to cover his in-the-public-record mob ties. See the work of David Cay Johnston for instance.

            All you are doing is trying to put lipstick on a (corporate) pig. Good luck with that.

          • BobS
            August 15, 2017 at 16:12

            “Nothing that Trump does makes Hillary less of a potential threat.
            CN forum stock answer #2: ‘But whatabout Hillary? Huh? Huh? Whatabout Hillary?’

      • Karl Sanchez
        August 15, 2017 at 15:32

        I could easily have written a 10,000 word essay on the subjects at hand but chose to use Occam’s Razor approach. IMO, Stein had the least number of shortcomings of those one could vote for in 2016, which isn’t the same as saying she was the best candidate of all time, which she wasn’t.

        • BobS
          August 15, 2017 at 15:59

          “Stein had the least number of shortcomings of those one could vote for in 2016…”
          Of course, Stein’s most significant shortcoming was that she had no chance of winning.
          But that’s not important- politics isn’t about power, it’s about purity, and your vote made you feel warm and fuzzy.

          • Karl Sanchez
            August 15, 2017 at 18:34

            You have absolutely no way of knowing how my vote made me feel, but it was certainly NOT “warm and fuzzy.” Indeed, your level of reasoning seems on par with my Alzheimer’s afflicted mother; but, at least she has an excuse.

  36. Bob Van Noy
    August 15, 2017 at 11:26

    You’re so correct Stephen J. That is so much a necessary aspect of the conversation going forward. What do the trials look like and how do the people get in front of a corrupt government? Interested readers consider reading all of Stephen’s links and analysis.
    Having said this, I have to opt out for several hours, but I’ll be back later…

    Meant to be a reply to Stephen J. Above.

  37. August 15, 2017 at 11:25

    So what is the underlying motive to bomb, kill and maim civilians across the globe in places like Libya, Yemen, Syria? To support violent coups d’etat in Honduras, Ukraine, whether it be Obama, Bush, Clinton or Trump? The US military “budget” in the form of a blank check and a monopoly on “military” contracts around the globe sucks the life blood out of the economy to reap havoc both here and abroad. And there is no connection between internal and foreign affairs?


    Bennett spoke about his decision to sit during the national anthem after the Seahawks’ 48-17 win.

    “With everything that’s been going on the last couple of months, and especially after the last couple of days seeing everything in Virginia, seeing everything that’s going on out there, and earlier today in Seattle, I just wanted to be able to use my platform to be able to continuously speak on injustice,” Bennett said.

    Bennett, whose father, Michael Bennett Sr., served in the Navy, added that he wasn’t taking a stand against the military.

    “First of all, I want to make sure people understand, I love the military,” Bennett said. “My father was in the military. I love hot dogs like any other American, I love football like any other American, but I don’t love segregation, I don’t love riots, I don’t love oppression, I don’t love gender slandering. I just want to see people have the equality that they deserve. I want to be able to use this platform to continuously push the message of that, keep journeying out and keep finding out how unselfish can we be as a society. How can we continuously love one another and understand that people are different? And just because they’re different doesn’t mean you shouldn’t like them. Just because they don’t smell the way you smell, just because they don’t eat what you eat, just because they don’t pray to the same God you pray to, that doesn’t mean you should hate them. Whether it’s Muslim, whether it’s Buddhist, whether it’s Christianity, whatever it is, I just want people to understand that, no matter what, we’re in this thing together. It’s more about being a human being at this point.”

    • August 15, 2017 at 11:33

      Bennett would do well to re-visit the words of MLK in order to learn that his “podium” reeks of hypocrisy and is therefore counter productive.

      • August 15, 2017 at 11:46

        Colin has risked and sacrificed his “podium” for the cause. J’suis Fidel. Soy Guevara

        • mike k
          August 15, 2017 at 14:39

          “Soy Guevara” – is that some kind of Cuban burrito?

          • August 15, 2017 at 15:36

            Thank you for being an example of american ignorance.

    • mike k
      August 15, 2017 at 12:12

      Thanks. I like Bennett’s words. I support his protest.

      • August 15, 2017 at 15:33

        Glad you got a band wagon to hop on. Even his support of the military?

      • August 15, 2017 at 15:38

        Yep. there is the hypo in the critical.

    • fudmier
      August 15, 2017 at 14:34

      Re mijkmijld

      take a look at this http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-12/trump-warns-xi-trade-war-china-begins-monday
      Trump Warns Xi: Trade War With China Begins Mondayby Tyler Durden Aug 13, 2017 6:36 AM

      As I said yesterday.. everything Trump and crowd does is predicable once it is understood the only issue is creating a market, killing off all competition to the Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) Business and forcing people to buy the Wall Street-Israel owned companys LNG products.. LGN explains the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Lebanon, Ukraine, and the reason why about Korea, and how NK is being used to kill off competition by sanction and war.

      • August 15, 2017 at 15:35

        Yes. The business model. And the fascism needed to secure it.

  38. August 15, 2017 at 11:16

    The question that needs to be asked, based on the evidence, is this:
    “Who Will Arrest The War Criminals? Or Has Justice Been Subverted?”
    [much more info at link below]

  39. Joe Tedesky
    August 15, 2017 at 11:01

    Every time we decide to sit here, and compare Trump’s presidency up against an imaginary Clinton as president, this analogy always moves me to think of how bad our voting options really are, in the land of the free and the brave. When you really do finally arrive at a conclusion to all of this, it leaves you feeling weak and helpless, to see any light at the end of this long dark American electoral tunnel. One thing is for sure with me, I will never regret our not having a president Hillary. Yes, Trump is bad, but seriously tell me where Hillary would have been that much better.

    • Bob Van Noy
      August 15, 2017 at 11:06

      So right Joe. Now is the time to strategize our way out of the Duopoly. The quicker we reach a consensus, the more successful we’ll be…
      In my mind, Peace Comes First.

    • BobS
      August 15, 2017 at 11:26

      “tell me where Hillary would have been that much better”
      Given Trump’s appointments to the Justice Department, Interior, Agriculture, EPA, Labor, NLRB, Treasury, SEC, HUD, Education, FCC, Labor, State Department & Supreme Court, Clinton would be better with respect to voting rights for minorities, civil asset forfeiture, marijuana legalization, climate change, extractive industries on public lands, endangered species, employee rights, consumer protection, net neutrality, public education, diplomatic relations as a counterweight to a ubiquitous US military presence, & reproductive rights for women.
      Any more 75 mph fastballs down the center of the plate?

      • Bob Van Noy
        August 15, 2017 at 11:33

        Sorry, BobS, I disagree, like Bill and Obama, she would be better at placating the masses on those subjects and still not doing a single thing about them. Good cop/Bad cop. That’s it.

        • BobS
          August 15, 2017 at 11:41

          Mr. Parry, have you given any consideration to changing the subheading on your banner from “Independent Investigative Journalism Since 1995” to ‘Where the ignorant assemble to circle-jerk’ ?

          • Brad Owen
            August 15, 2017 at 12:04

            Only if YOU join the Party. We would of course “leave the pool”.

          • Bob In Portland
            August 15, 2017 at 12:05

            You are here.

          • August 15, 2017 at 12:10

            I’m sure that’s why Consortium News wins so many journalism prizes, you nitwit.

          • August 15, 2017 at 15:29

            So someone who doesn’t “respect the voting rights” of members of her own party (you remember Bernie Sanders and the Democratic primary process I assume), would be counted on to “better” respect the voting rights of minorities? Really? Half the people in our Clintonian private enterprise prisons are there for non-violent drug crimes with much of the legislation dating back to hubbies years and with HRC’s support, but HRC would be “better” on marijuana legalization and civil asset forfeiture? Really? HRC would offer “diplomatic relations as a counterweight to a ubiquitous US military presence??” Mrs. “we came, we saw he died,” cackle, cackle, whose lies helped pave the way for the destruction of Libya, which had at the time the highest standard of living in Africa? Remember the Gaddafi’s “viagra fueled rape camps,” baseless and vile propaganda campaign? Does that fall under your supporting “rights for women” category? HRC who also oversaw the overthrow of democratically elected governments in Honduras and Ukraine (oh, wait, wait, now I get your point, you don’t HAVE to invade a nation to take it over through “diplomatic relations!” Ok, I’ll grant you this one Bob, if we can both agree that it is ethical to destroy specific democratically elected governments in the name of promoting the “idea” of democratically elected governments – oh, wait, I don’t agree with that point, so its yours alone. Own it. So to speak a language you apparently understand, and to honor your fearless leader, I’ll quote Ms. HRC: “RUSSIAN WIKILEAKS!!!!” You can’t make this stuff up. I hope this completes your “circle.” I have a feeling you know where you can find a “jerk.”

        • Brad Owen
          August 15, 2017 at 12:03

          Say it again Bob Van Noy. Ole MS. “Public position/Private position” would have just played the back-stabber that Obama proved to be…and STILL WILL in 2020, if given the slightest of chances. People should really know better by now. The people must really rally around some other flag besides the D or R flags. D and R are LONG over-due for extinction.

      • mike k
        August 15, 2017 at 12:08

        That Hillary might have pushed us into nuclear war with Russia means that easy fast ball might have resulted in a game ending megablast!

      • Joe Tedesky
        August 15, 2017 at 12:16

        Bob S I am going to give you an intentional walk, and a base on balls. It is getting into the area of ridiculous to speculate what a Hillary presidency would have looked like. Although Hillary would have placated her limousine liberal base, her and her husbands record would appear to suggest something quite different may have occurred, if Hillary would have won. I will reference you to look back on Bill Clinton’s record of supporting NAFTA, and his terms doing away with all financial safeguards, which could have prevented the TARP rescue, we all still regretfully remember. Hillary’s record is best described by Diana Johnstone, in her well talked about book ‘Queen of Chaos’. Now get on down there to first base Bob. Thanks for your reply, it counts as a valid argument, but it loses it’s persuasion on it’s lack of substance based upon the Clinton’s merits.

        • BobS
          August 15, 2017 at 12:22

          Joe Tedesky writes “but seriously tell me where Hillary would have been that much better”, to which Joe Tedesky replies “It is getting into the area of ridiculous to speculate what a Hillary presidency would have looked like”.

          • Joe Tedesky
            August 15, 2017 at 13:54

            And, as you were starting to say…..

          • BobS
            August 15, 2017 at 16:06

            “And, as you were starting to say…..”
            ‘….that Joe Tedesky can’t decide whether he’s coming or going.’

      • JoeD
        August 15, 2017 at 12:54

        Wow a Correct the Record troll. Time to troll some place else trolly.

        • BobS
          August 15, 2017 at 12:58

          Wow, another circle-jerker. Time to put away the lube, jerker.

          • D5-5
            August 15, 2017 at 13:46

            The CN forum has always stood out in two ways from other discussion forums as with Disqus types. It has practiced civility and emphasized reasoning and intelligent discussion. Lately, perhaps due to CN’s becoming more notorious as challenging the official view, we’ve had increased numbers of commenters like this one. The best policy I suggest is to ignore anything further from this source. Just jump over it. It’s a waste of time to bother with such juvenile name-calling and so forth with its “nah nah nah nah” type of childishness. The writer obviously knows whereof he speaks, as a circle-jerker par excellence with a lot of experience in that type of forum.

          • BobS
            August 15, 2017 at 13:53

            “The CN forum has always stood out in two ways…”

            #1 ‘DEEP STATE! DEEP STATE!’
            #2 ‘But whatabout Hillary? Huh? Huh? Whatabout Hillary?’

          • Free Truth
            August 15, 2017 at 15:55

            BobS, the chickens are coming home to roost or as Abe Lincoln said, “The safety of this nation was not in its fleets, its armies, its forts, but in the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere, and he warned his countrymen that they could not destroy this spirit without planting the seeds of despotism at their own doors.” Enjoy your Neocon Hell!

          • BobS
            August 15, 2017 at 16:03

            “Enjoy your Neocon Hell!”
            So your answer is #2, DEEP STATE! DEEP STATE!

          • Free Truth
            August 15, 2017 at 16:29

            I gotta say I actually enjoy tasting this Hillary supporter’s salty tears. Let’s make him squeal some more. I used to campaign for Democrats but they’ll never get my vote back and I’m talking more people out of ever voting Democrat again. Let the tears flow freely.

          • BobS
            August 15, 2017 at 17:03

            “I gotta say I actually enjoy tasting this Hillary supporter’s salty tears. Let’s make him squeal some more. I used to campaign for Democrats but they’ll never get my vote back and I’m talking more people out of ever voting Democrat again. Let the tears flow freely.”
            #2 ‘But whatabout Hillary? Huh? Huh? Whatabout Hillary?’

          • Free Truth
            August 15, 2017 at 17:51

            Those tears are so salty I think we’ll have enough to create a Dead Sea for Democrats soon enough, because that party is dead to the people on these boards. Good luck!

          • August 21, 2017 at 14:42

            Bob S, are you off your medication??????????

      • evelync
        August 15, 2017 at 16:53

        I agree with the excellent point of Bob Van Noy and I’ve been pondering this point for some time – even prior to the election, worrying all along about Mrs. Clinton’s predilection for endless regime change wars and her determination to prove either that she has balls of iron or no capacity to evaluate the unintended consequences that seem to follow her around.

        The country, it seems, is taking to the streets, especially the people who have figured out that our system has failed us – the endless, deadly, regime change wars, the continuing decades of irresponsible and financially deadly bank deregulation – and persuaded most of us that we’ve been on the wrong path for almost 50 years as TPTB dismantle the New Deal and try to remake the world for the benefit of Big Oil, Big Ag, Big Pharma, Big you-name-it and the MIC.

        If Mrs. Clinton had won the electoral college vote, I think that her continued disinterest in how her financial and foreign policies affected the vast majority of Americans in a bad way, would have continued, slowly, to demoralize the country. Especially since people would have been hammered by the MSM that the pro-people person had won when that was true to a point, relative to Donald Trump, but in the long run, not really true.
        Trump by way of his extremism has lit a raging fire, that was already kindled by Bernie Sanders, Nina Turner, Tulsi Gabbard, Keith Ellison, Bill McGibbon and the great Cornel West and so many others.

        I guess we’ll just have to see how this all turns out.
        From what I can tell, thanks to internet enhance communication, the continuing financial pain suffered by the shrinking middle class, the failures of the two major political parties on domestic and foreign policy, and the whole mess we’re in (including the unintended consequences of failed policies that Hillary and Bill and many of the other leading lights in the Democratic Party were responsible for) and Donald Trump’s finger in the eye of most everyone, we may be reaching a tipping point that, if we’re lucky can help get us on a sustainable path. Otherwise. look out…
        Hillary would not have stopped the slide into financial and geopolitical chaos. She might have shmoozed people, for a little while, into thinking things were not as bad as they are …..

        Bottom line she was not able to see the forest for the trees and she was beholden to a power structure that was corrupt and irresponsible.

        • Don P.
          August 15, 2017 at 20:09

          Correct evelync & Gary,

          And I agree with Joe Tedesky, let’s give BobS the pass, there are plenty of people that feel the way he does, but I challenge him to flesh out his thoughts a bit more, it is hard to know exactly what Hillary would do, but her previous track record is hardly a comforting indication of good things to come if she had won. I also think big trouble is looming, and it is economic, the root of much of the world’s problems that is glossed over by the MSM. Consortium is so valuable for asking the hard questions, digging for truth. The rush to judgement on Trump based on Russia-gate and election fixing has been maddening to follow, and there is a very good chance it will not be there as witnessed on these pages almost from the beginning.

          That being said, Trump is a disaster, with plenty to criticize and we should fight hard to resist. The Dems should be concentrating on winning the congress back, period. Let Mueller do his thing, a far reaching investigation that it appears to be will get something that will quite likely lead to shutting down Trump, and quite possibly impeaching him, with the GOP believing they can spin the righteousness of moving on to Pence, with ample proof of Trump’s erratic behavior. Right now it is all TBD, so we need to wait it out, and support a new group of leadership that understand the economic piece to this puzzle and understand and support we the people. If the Clinton’s have an epiphany I welcome it, plenty of people need to have the same. Deep state? Call it what you want but neither party is representing our values as a nation. Sheep, not leaders…

          • Realist
            August 16, 2017 at 02:17

            I’ll recommend what I think the Democrats should be doing right now. They should be concentrating on doing their jobs as legislators, arguing and voting for their own programs and against what they believe is dysfunctional in the Republican agenda. They should fall back on the filibuster when necessary as did the Republicans when they were in the senate minority. They should be trying to come to compromises with the opposition as legislators used to do so that each side gets half a loaf rather than the grid-lock that is now de-rigueur today.

            The Republicans, we have learned based on the health care issue, are NOT a monolithic block all voting in lockstep. They can be defeated, perhaps, on some important issues, they can be reasoned with. Frankly, I DON’T see Trump getting the legislation he wanted on border walls, women’s reproductive rights, tax giveaways to the wealthy, and much of the other stuff. The foolish Dems actually have an opportunity to sell their policies to the public, if they would bother to formulate them and debate them before the public instead of focusing their entire energy on trying to undue the election, overthrow Trump, make excuses for Hillary’s loss, contrive bogus accusations against Russia, and rubber stamp outrageous sanctions bills to punish that country and thereby completely subvert desperately-needed diplomacy for untold years to come. The Democrats have responded to their unexpected loss of the presidency in the worst possible manner, acting like impetuous children and poor losers without a shred of class. Some of their loudest mouthpieces like Maxine Waters are truly an embarrassment and serve only as examples for why people should NOT vote for Democrats the next time round.

            Though I have voted only for Democrats in my 70 years, I cannot support them going forward… no more than I can support the Republicans. People like BobS should not assume that elections will remain but a binary choice into the indefinite future. Third party and independent candidates are bound to become viable options when BOTH the two entrenched parties continue to represent nothing but domestic dysfunction and international danger.

            For my part, only third party and independents will get my votes for every office. The Senate voted 98-2 and the House voted 419-3 for madness on the last critical issue (unwarranted sanctions against Russia), and word is the damned fools plan to double down again in the near future when the issue of ballistic missile treaties with Russia comes up–they plan to order the president to withdraw from those treaties, creating a free-for-all deployment of nuclear missiles with no restraints. So, you see, basically none of those fools deserve to be retained in office. Unfortunately, I can only vote against two of them in the upcoming elections next year.

      • Bart
        August 15, 2017 at 20:23

        Second the motion.

      • Gregory Herr
        August 15, 2017 at 21:06

        Diplomatic relations as a counterweight to ubiquitous US military presence? Strike any balance, did she?

        • Gregory Herr
          August 15, 2017 at 21:25

          Wow, before reading down I made a quick reply to BobS way up there. Just want to say, thanks Gary for a well-detailed response. The “diplomatic relations” hit me hardest.
          There is nothing ignorant about factual representation BobS. Agreeing with the substance of Gary’s post isn’t circle-jerking, it’s simply agreeing. People here often bring different angles (in agreement) and sometimes divergent opinions (in disagreement). Please try to refrain from bringing your proclivity for adolescent imaging of wish-fulfillment fantasia to adult conversation.

      • August 21, 2017 at 14:35

        BOB S, YOU ARE DELUSIONAL !!!!!!!!!!!

    • August 15, 2017 at 11:29

      Moreover, the only hard evidence available indicates that it was Hillary who manipulated the election, giving us no other option but Trump. Thanks Hillary. well played, indeed.

      • Joe Tedesky
        August 15, 2017 at 23:57

        What Hillary, Wasserman Schultz, Podesta, and Brazile, did to the Sanders Campaign is not only deeply regretful, it was criminal. This goes to my point, that it really doesn’t seem to matter who we support, because the lessor of the two evil only option, doesn’t leave you the voter with much to choose from. Thanks for the comment mijkmild….Joe

        • Realist
          August 16, 2017 at 02:39

          Yes, Joe, a LOT of rotten apples on that team. But an important point is that it is a TEAM. A political party is not just a collection of individuals, but an organic whole, a team. Hillary was the face of the team, the captain, and she was rejected. But the whole lot of ’em did not play by the rules and as a team they should be punished in order to learn a lesson, and as a matter of simple justice. In some other countries, they might all go to jail for their cheating–or even be shot. In America, the strongest sanctions by the government will be to say “tut tut, bad boys and girls, we really need to focus on the winner of the election for whom there is, inconveniently, no evidence of cheating.” The only effective punishment that can be enforced by the citizens is to not vote for this team of sleaze bags in future elections. And that should extend to whomever Barack Obama lays hands on as his anointed one, said to be Deval Patrick.

    • Brad Owen
      August 15, 2017 at 11:55

      On election day, 2016, Jill Stein was ON 95% OF THE BALLOTS. Gary Johnson was ON 100% OF THE BALLOTS. 95% of the voters who voted, chose between Clinton and Trump, with large percentages of those voters voting against the OTHER candidate, not for their own candidate. AND this is only true if we can believe the truthfulness of our voting machines. The VAST majority of the voters could have voted Stein or Johnson for president, and voted down-ticket for other candidates of other Parties. It is a virtual certainty we would not be experiencing the reported or prognosticated evils of the duopoly candidates if Stein or Johnson or Sanders were in the cockpit. Stein, Johnson, and even Sanders, as outsiders, would have been almost unanimously opposed by the Washington/Wall Street Establishment, as was Trump (the other outsider) in the sanctions vote of congress. Clinton was the only Insider among these five candidates who stood a chance of winning the presidency…and that really should be all that the electorate needs to know about how bad a Clinton Presidency would be (the argument applies to 2020 too; we’re NOT out of the woods yet).

      • Ol' Hippy
        August 15, 2017 at 16:55

        I for one deplored both candidates equally; for entirely different reasons. Now as it turns out Trump has reneged on the few things I thought he had going for him. Mainly his non-interventionist stance on the Middle East and his soft views on Russia,(which I believe he still has, but Congress…foiled that). We are left with a mess that, perhaps, can’t be undone and that’s what’s scary; not being able to extricate from the said messes that worsen daily. We really do have a broken government and not a fix in sight, by my reasoning anyway.

    • fudmier
      August 15, 2017 at 14:27

      Re J Tedesky’s comment.
      Voting options are not really voting options voting and massive propaganda that goes with it are part of the divide and conquer strategy that keeps the few Pharaohs able in govern the many.
      The USA constitution divides Americans into two groups: the few and the many.

      Group Pharaoh (those who by virtue of their wealth and highly distributed organization control are able to dictate to every national
      political body of every nation in the world. In addition to the group few support the pharaohs are supported by the internationally interlocked nation state intelligence and propaganda servicers.

      GROUP FEW (527 members of the USA) paid salaries, practice among themselves democracy, elected pharaoh slave drivers to keep the people in Group many working.

      GROUP MANY (340,000,000 Americans enslaved to the 527 group few). protected only by the Bill of Rights which dictates the extent of the slave driver authority to exercise their dominion over the members of the Group many.

      Propaganda, fake news, abortion, religion, race, welfare, education, everything keeps dividing and dividing <=why THE ANSWER
      There are two ways to peacefully resolve conflict: majority rule vote
      GROUP FEW resolves it conflicts by the majority vote.
      GROUP MANY has not way to resolve conflict except to leave it to GROUP FEW
      but this analysis leads to a realization that if the Group many members are going to have to settle-for what the Group Few decide, then the Group Many members need a way to challenge and punish members of the Group Few when a group many issues is infringed.
      If a senator for example violates his or her campaign pledge to those who voted for him or her, then there should be some kind of group few court where such cases can be heard , and the convicted can be punished
      If a senator engages in corruption he or she should be chargeable by a group many court and if found guilty punished. IT is the group many need to have sufficient power to charge, try, convict and punish the group few members, that the constitution left out.

    • Realist
      August 15, 2017 at 17:28

      The entire rest of the federal government and the totality of the mainstream media have spent the last eight months trying to pound Donald J. Trump into the mold of Hillary Rodham Clinton. They would not have had to strip a President Clinton of her constitutional right to conduct diplomacy with Russia because her only diplomacy would have been from the barrel of a gun or the tip of a warhead. Frankly, after ten months of incessantly being called a traitor to his country, a usurper of the presidency, a puppet of a purported expansionist dictator half way round the world, and now a fascist racist with secret sympathies for American Nazis and the KKK, all the while being hounded in a bipartisan congressional witch hunt led by a clearly biased special prosecutor with immense powers to dissect and destroy his quarry and a clear mandate to do so, I’d say it’s amazing the guy still functions with equanimity rather than cowering in the White House as a quivering paranoid.

      Whose side would the audience be on if this scenario were the script of a Hollywood movie? No, I don’t want to see his domestic agenda implemented, but I did want to see his foreign policy put in place of the never-ending war mongering that has obsessed every president since Bushdaddy. That’s been 30 straight years of American military aggression across the globe. I had hoped to finally see an end to the American Thirty Years War, but that is apparently not to be allowed by the people who really rule this country.

    • Stephen Conrad
      August 15, 2017 at 21:24

      OK Joe, I’ll tell you. Hillary as president would have been MUCH better. Perfect? No. Can you seriously believe she would treat others the way Herr Drumpf does??

      • Joe Tedesky
        August 15, 2017 at 22:12

        Yes Stephen, it is a matter of opinion to if Hillary would have been any better than Trump. In fact, when it comes to racism issues, Hillary would be much better over Trump by a mile. The point I was trying to make originally, is that neither candidates, not a one, whether it be a Hillary or a Trump, and not just presidential candidates, but all political office seekers starting with big city mayors, is not worth qualifying for what as you might call leading the populace with anything close to resembling good governance.

        Apparently there are still Hillary supporters who take offense to any negative comment made about her, and to you I only want you to know, that in my personal opinion I don’t miss the scheming warhawk Hillary one bit. Okay Trump is a nightmare, and this I can’t change, but finding solace in daydreaming of what a Hillary presidency may have been like, is just a losers way of practicing wishful thinking. Just to be clear, I don’t like either HIlary or the Donald for any public office. That was my point, there are no good candidates.

    • elmerfudzie
      August 15, 2017 at 22:58

      Joe, spot on..but how do we take the broom away from the witch of the west? When she flew east, the result was a decimated Libya and a series of (ongoing) mass migrations from Africa to Europe. On the other hand, nothings really changed, no matter who is the new POTUS. I’ve begun to worry that Iran is back in the cross-hairs. China has a long term strategy to have regional hegemony over the other three “dragons”. Xi keeps re-broadcasting his “soft power” offer to all neighbors through (bribery, economic dependence and threats). This effort is in sharp contrast to the US and Western Occident message, it’s quite simple, there are three tools in the box of this sort of diplomacy; Gladio programs, bombing and or divide and conquer. Again, Xi’s CCP will make every effort to repeat the propaganda that “We’re the nice guy alternate” to U.S. brutishness! The central committee commies probably suggested to Trump, that he go and bomb someone other than Un.. how about, Iran?! surely it will keep the French and German’s in line, and you’ll be in a better position to make them kowtow (I couldn’t resist using this Chinese word!) to that wild, new Russia sanctions plan–provided of course, your Navy can keep the Straight of Hormuz open for commerce…Perhaps Trump responded with a remark: well, I’ll think about that….Ah, CONSORTIUMNEWS readers, such is the stuff and the history of, the “back-room” deal…

      • evelync
        August 16, 2017 at 11:27

        ha hah on your broom comment :) …….
        very funny and aprapro…. an element of died in the wool witchiness!

        I keep coming back to one simple reason for it all – exploitation by those who run the planet or think they do of the “riches” under the soil, the “labor” of the many, and the “pocket books” of the working classes….

        As Paul Volker said a few years ago – something to the effect that ‘for the last 30 years, the only innovation he is aware of coming from the big banks is the ATM machine…..

        although there are influential people like Elon Musk who make huuuuuge contributions with remarkable innovations, but most influential people just take without much to give.
        Hillary and Bill courted those people and still do, I suspect.

        • elmerfudzie
          August 17, 2017 at 19:46

          evelync, I was merely suggesting that burning the witch wouldn’t work this time, the CFR would simply unearth her doppelganger, followed by a successor (more evil !) ……so, I’m suggesting that we burn her broom, you know, find those three thousand plus? e-mails that somehow got deleted from her server? What was, previously deleted, can be….recovered!….LOL

    • Dag
      August 16, 2017 at 13:04

      During Obama’s first term, dismayed by his escalation of the drone wars and his intervention in Libya, I resolved to never again vote for candidates who advocate war. I voted Green 2012 and again in 2016, and I must say it is liberating to vote your hopes rather than your fears. 2016 was a no-brainer for me, not a chance in hell that I would have ever voted for either of the two major party candidates, like choosing between cholera and ghonerea as Julian Assange aptly put it.

      Once you go third party though, you will experience the wrath of Democratic partisans, lesser evilists and two-party duopolists who will blame you for everything from American racism to climate change. What we need is more people like you to stand up and loudly reject the lesser evil arguments that are constantly used as blackmail to cajole and shame us into supporting corrupt Democrats.

      That’s the only we’ll ever break out of the two party trap it seems to me.

    • J. Zeigler
      August 16, 2017 at 15:33

      you are a moron…I live in Berlin, Germany….I’m not on vacation asshole…

      • elmerfudzie
        August 17, 2017 at 19:32

        J. Zeigler, take a 100 mg Thorazine, I think your either on the wrong page or article. First, get some sleep and then type your new comments– later…..

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