On Monday, President Trump did a second take on his remarks about the white-nationalist-sparked violence in Charlottesville, but his tepid first take offered a troubling look into his soul, says Michael Winship.
By Michael Winship
Enough. We have a president who is emotionally challenged and empathy-free, who on Saturday read from a prepared statement of concern and condemnation, incapable of speaking genuinely from the heart, apparently because he knows that those who speak racist hate and commit acts of deadly violence are a portion of his “base.”
Witness Ku Kluxer David Duke declaring in Charlottesville, Virginia, before Saturday’s violence, “We are determined to take our country back. We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump. Because he said he’s going to take our country back.”
It’s true that you can’t always choose those who want to march in support of you, although Trump’s refusal to condemn his backing from white supremacists is appalling. Nor can it be denied that on the extreme left there are a few, like so many on the extreme right, who see violence as a means to an end. But Trump not only has failed to speak out against white nationalists, he allows them to work in his White House and mutter seditious nonsense into his all-too-susceptible ears.
As he spoke on Saturday afternoon he was unable to out-and-out condemn the neo-Nazis in Charlottesville without diluting his censure, saying there was “hatred, bigotry and violence” but adding “on many sides, on many sides.” And then he tweeted, “Condolences to the family of the young woman killed today, and best regards to all of those injured, in Charlottesville, Virginia. So sad!”
Best regards? So sad? So lame. A woman died, a paralegal named Heather Heyer, and others were wounded at the hand of what appears to be a racist murderer using a car as a deadly weapon. This is a national tragedy, Mr. President. It is domestic terrorism and your reaction must be one of outrage, not left-handed sympathy.
On Saturday, Trump said, “It’s been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump. Not Barack Obama. It’s been going on for a long, long time.” He’s right about the long, long time part but as Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) wrote on Saturday:
“[F]rom the day he came down the escalator in the tower that bears his name, Trump consciously poured fuel on the fire. He ran a racist, xenophobic campaign that energized the radical right… Trump calls for the country to unite. But he is still ducking responsibility for his role in dividing it.”
Many Republican senators denounced Saturday’s fascist extremists more strongly and explicitly than the President, including Colorado’s Cory Gardner, who tweeted, “Mr. President – we must call evil by its name. These were white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism.”
But in the not-so-distant past, out of fear of alienating some conservative voters, Republicans have condemned groups like the SPLC for calling out the growing threat of the extreme right and white supremacy, just as those Republicans so vehemently attacked a 2009 report from the Department of Homeland Security on rightwing domestic terrorism that it was withdrawn from circulation. That analysis found that every year, with the exception of 2001 and the 9/11 attacks, right-wing extremism was responsible for more violence in the United States than radical Islamic terrorism.
The report’s findings were backed up by an FBI analysis last year that hate crimes were up and by a 2015 survey conducted with the Police Executive Research Forum. Two of those involved, Charles Kurzman of the University of North Carolina and David Schanzer of Duke University, wrote in The New York Times, “The main terrorist threat in the United States is not from violent Muslim extremists, but from right-wing extremists…
“An officer from a large metropolitan area said that ‘militias, neo-Nazis and sovereign citizens’ are the biggest threat we face in regard to extremism,” they wrote. “One officer explained that he ranked the right-wing threat higher because ‘it is an emerging threat that we don’t have as good of a grip on, even with our intelligence unit, as we do with the Al Shabab/Al Qaeda issue, which we have been dealing with for some time.’”
President Trump, you reap what you sow and boilerplate statements of sorrow ring hollow. Presidents are supposed to bring us together. Your predecessors, Republicans and Democrats, have done so with grace. But this President says he loves all Americans while working to deprive them of their freedoms. And keeps within his circle of advisors those for whom hate is an asset and not a dagger to the heart of democracy.
Fire Sebastian Gorka, the bogus security advisor who earlier this week told Breitbart News Daily that white supremacists are not a problem. Fire Stephen Miller, who seems to think the Statue of Liberty is more a symbol of exclusion than welcome. And fire Steve Bannon and his off-the-wall, destructive theories of white nationalism.
Their dismissals would be a start. But on Saturday, we saw into your soul, Donald Trump. And there was nothing there.
Michael Winship is the Emmy Award-winning senior writer of Moyers & Company and BillMoyers.com. Follow him on Twitter: @MichaelWinship. [This story first appeared at http://billmoyers.com/story/charlottesville-goddam/]
Well said, Gregor. Best to pass over his provocations, which are not discussion, anyway. Just a taunting bully whose face we shall never see.
Bob S.’ purpose is not to have a discussion. It is, however to destroy a discussion; which he has succeeded in doing
lf you pay attention to his grammar schoolyard negativity. The best we can do is try to carry on our discussion and
try to pass over his comments, not react ( read them if you want) and move on as if they had never existed. His sole
purpose is to destroy ours. Maybe he is being paid to do this.
Gregor, Thank you.
I had reached the same conclusion rather quickly, but being fairly new here was not sure of his track record. Your confirmation is much appreciated.
Truth be told, I was running a little experiment, seeing to what extant I could keep him tied up over here and if it provided some space for civil discussion on the other articles. Of course, if he is paid to do this, he’s got more time to devote to obfuscation than I can afford to spend.
It was fun while it lasted.
A commenter on Sputnik states that Brennan Gilmore, the man who is now on TV interviews because he took video in Charlottesville VA was a CIA operative in Central African Republic in 2012 working with Muslim rebel group Seleka to overthrow the Christian nationalist government, apparently successfully. His station chief in CAR was Tom Perriello, who returned to US in 2015 and unsuccessfully ran for, I believe, VA governor. Gilmore also returned to US and works with the mayor of Charlottesville, Jason Signer, for VA Democratic party. I think Realist and others who suspect a CIA staged event are onto something. What better way to get further control of us than more divide-and-conquer?
The link is http://www.whatdoesitmean.com but others are talking about this.
Ayatollah Khomanei (sp?) said that Trump should stop talking about regime change elsewhere and get the US in order (as if he could!).
Of course! (slaps head)
It’s the DEEP STATE!
The same DEEP STATE! responsible for the Lost Cause, Jim Crow, Kristallnacht, the Holocaust, etc.
August 17, 2017 at 9:43 am
Going forward, I’ll try to be more “reasoned” and subtle when judging neo-Nazis/KKK and their apologists”
That would be an improvement, but it seems you were unable to grasp the concepts for longer than 7 minutes.
“grasp the concepts” = ‘both sides (i.e. Nazis/KKK & BLM) do it’
Thanks, but no thanks.
(apologist for Nazi apologists?)
No. Reread my response. I said nothing – and have said nothing – about “both sides”.
Since you seem to have missed or willfully ignored them in your attemt to put words in my mouth, the concepts are reasoning rather than insult and labeling, and terms like “fucking morons” actually weaken whatever position you are trying to put foward.
I apologized for nothing and no one. While it is clearly a common tactic, trying to label me (“apologist for Nazi apologists?”) for a position I have not stated does not rise to the level of weak.
It’s amazing that a guy, a billionaire, can have a hit TV show and talk to folks in and out of business and on the Golf Course every day for years, can have lived for 70 years in this nation though the 60’s and 70’s until now, then perform as awkwardly as he did in his press conference regarding the Charlottesville fiasco. Trump is really a poor speaker, he has no empathy or subtlety and he doesn’t seem to improvise well or “think on his feet’ like they used to say. But that’s no excuse, He needed to be more politic and not expose his own opinions here. Trump did himself more harm and gave his opponents more grist for the mill. He did not do himself any favors. I don’t think a single National Republican figure is supporting him. It is not his fault that this white supremacist-alt right thing vs. the folks that oppose them is probably going to become more confrontational and more violent. However, Trump did not chill this clash out in any way. He made it worse and placed himself in a poor light.. He just can’t seem to do anything right.This could really hurt him. Of course both sides are wrong, Whoever won an argument swearing at somebody, fighting and yelling “Shut up , You’re Stoopit”? All these people are idiots or they wouldn’t have been there. You would hope folks could just ignore each other and find something else to do. Maybe get a hobby . As for Trump, he’s hopeless.
“Of course both sides are wrong”
One side includes, among others, neo-Nazis (you know, the ‘side’ responsible for extermination of millions of Jews, socialists, homosexuals, etc.) and the KKK (noted for their white supremacist/white nationalist philosophy that historically included lynching blacks, murdering civil rights workers, bombing churches, etc.). So fascist, anti-Semitic, anti-black murderers.
And the other side…
Dude , don’t wrestle out of class. And wear a jockstrap..
What’s amazing is Roger Stone.
I think Trump is the best thing. To happen to the states. Every day since he threw his hat in the race is one day closer to full disclosure of the truly exceptional unexceptionalism of Merica. Soon (I hope) they will be free of their mostly self imposed negative reinforcing mythology and can begin taking steps towards actually being a positive force on this planet. Crosses fingers.
Guess you got that Medical Marijuana Card. Some of those candies and oils are really strong. Don’t vape too much. Actually the castration and then Drawing and Quartering of Trump will create record ratings for the Networks and the New York Times and Washington Post will become the respected Defenders of Democracy once more . The Forces of Political Correctness will be institutionalized and the Beat of Exceptionalism will be given a new layered, sequenced and multi-cultural Hip Hop vitality. It will almost be like an Opera only way cooler.
bob s and mike k….
is it easy to type with socks on your hands?
“is it easy to type with socks on your hands?”
Probably no harder than you find it to type with your head up your ass.
@Susan Sunflower.We are ALL rascist, our inability/reluctance to face this part of our psyche in any reasonable logical or even honest fashion appears to be the main driver of it’s manifestation. This should in no way be seen as a support for POTUS or rascism, it’s just a RL observation.
@mike k. “The title of this essay was irresistible troll bait” sounds like the first of twelve steps to me. Thanks. Or do you mean only irresistible to those who don’t share your view, AKA trolls?
Yes, and in the 1970-80 first flush of identity politics that “all men / people are racists” was acknowledged … for many, the 3 years of BLM has been endless accusations and name calling about “all police officers” and “all white people” … hence all of the tedious complaint of “reverse racism” …
During 2016, I responded to “liberals” who wanted to criminalize racism, impose intelligence tests and minimum standards for the privilege of voting … not to mention all the calls for the “self-righteous” silencing/deplatforming of people whose ideas they find repugnant or “dangerous” … Illiberal liberals is all too real …
The outrage that Charlie Hebdo was feted as brave victims / opponents of religious censorship was a tipping point for me … but then my parents championed Lenny Bruce and James Joyce and even — without liking the man — Henry Miller. Even the concept of “principles” and a “principled stand” has seemingly been lost. There was outrage that the alt-right was allowed to assemble … and this debacle is being used to silence them — as if, silencing them will effectively make them go away or address their issues …
Today’s WaPo has an article (op-ed) saying it’s time to start throwing rocks … it’s time for “direct action” … I lived through the 60’s and 70’s and the devastation of the Black Panthers and the running-on-empty years of the Weather Underground … Now old enough to have have “mature” appreciation of the courage of MLK and Gandhi.
eta: It’s typical of our times that establishing go-fund-me accounts for the victims was among the first “actions” … rather than demanding that the city pick up the bill for their healthcare costs, which as victims-of-violent-crime and police inadequacy, they might well already qualify for.
Agreed, our addiction to attacking symptoms and complete aversion to discussing causes seems to be reaching critical mass. Blessed to be a witness I am. I hope I can teach my children well.
“I hope I can teach my children well.”
Like ‘blood and soil’?
Teach them like that?
I was thinking more along the lines of teaching them that it’s probably not a good idea to lump all people in a group into a corner because of the actions of a minority within the group for political expediency or otherwise really. That ‘blood and soil stuff’ is low hanging fruit for people who wish to deny a voice to a group of people based on actions from a minority, It seems to me to be pretty observable through this thread that what you have done here is closer to that than what I have done. Have a look am I wrong?
“because of the actions of a minority within the group…”
So, the voices of the two or three guys chanting “blood and soil!” and “Jews will not replace us!” echoed so much it only sounded like hundreds? Their voices certainly weren’t denied.
Yeah, you keep fucking that dog.
The Medium is the message bobs. What’s missing from the videos is more important than what they project IMO. Good luck to you. I thank you for illuminating the fact that using your standards I can now classify BLM as terrorist and I will include Obama in that group as a sympathizer to terror, as he didn’t chastise them strongly enough IMO for their apparently random NOT called for violence that every single event with their name seems to devolve into. I’ll just ignore the simple fact that the majority at such events aren’t there to be violent. I can now using bobs logic magically tar and feather them all and if I’m lucky Impeach a POTUS. Such clarity bobs. Thanks again and good luck.
“I thank you for illuminating the fact that using your standards I can now classify BLM as terrorist…”
Oh, you give me too much credit.
You were there before we met.
(keep doing those wrist and forearm exercises so you don’t strain a muscle carrying your tiki torch)
Tannenhouser, best of luck in getting a real discussion.
I hate this becoming about the commenters rather than the comments, but if you scan up you’ll see MikeK gets down to all caps one-liners. Screaming bumper stickers. He and BobS have gotten to the “if you don’t agree with me you must be an idiot” stage. Pointing out inconsistencies on one side is automatically apologizing for the other. By your last question, you indicate you already recognize this for what it is. Scan up to the top. Mike even refers to his dissenters as deluded and deigns to “forgive them for they know not what they do.” (My reply is up there.)
Insert long exhale with closed eyes here….
Tip o the hat Chucky
Not necessarily an idiot (though you probably know him better than me).
Just at best, an apologist for neo-fascists, and at worse, a neo-fascist.
Of course, that doesn’t preclude him being an idiot.
Actually, I don’t know him at all. But he seems to be able to come up with reasoned statements and opinions that don’t include references to dog fucking and heads up asses. They even include some subtleties if you actually read them. That would be in between copy/pasting “fascist”.
I’ll state it plainly: name calling and labeling is not argument, and throwing out genital/scatological terms is one of the oldest known signs of trying to shore up a weakness.
Best of luck to you.
Going forward, I’ll try to be more “reasoned” and subtle when judging neo-Nazis/KKK and their apologists
The resistance to Trump (which is as mainstream and corporatist as the Democratic Party) has infantalized the citizenry by distilling issues down the “the awful embarrassment that is Trump” … and we are STILL seeing these articles in which “discomfort” and embarrassment that Trump is POTUS is considered somehow legitimate grounds for opposition … This was encouraged and went unchallenged during the campaign (where it was ineffective, no matter how many “clever” Cheeto related jokes were made) and insulting of Trump supporters/defender or simply critics of this sort of emotionally-based policy free “opposition” (when not accusing them of Russian affinity or treason) continues, as far as I see over at Salon, which I consider a bellwether of (anti-Bernie) Democratic Party consensus …
They (stil) have got nuttin’ to offer … tangible demands might offend some of their donors.
Carrying that tiki torch around Charlottesville all night require a lot of grip strength?
All night? Since you brought it up……. what is the recommended grip on reality required for such distortions? Or did they really march around with torches all night as you allude to
“what is the recommended grip on reality required for such distortions?”
The distortion that neo-Nazis and the KKK have a kindred spirit in the White House, who in turn has apologists/defenders on this thread?
If that’s true then the same can be said of Obama. He hardly disavowed the actions of BLM when they called for violence and the death of Police. Hell Clinton even encouraged it with her loser ‘resistance’ rhetoric. Where is the distain? Where is the anger? Why does one seemingly get a pass and the other distain? Maybe I misunderstand your position. An answer to these questions will clarify.
“..BLM when they called for violence and the death of Police.”
That would be terrible, had it actually happened (not counting Trump’s feverish imagination, and that of other consumers of Faux News, which apparently includes you- like I observed on a different thread, consortiumnews.com used to be one of the better neighborhoods on the internet. Still is, if one sticks to the articles).
The value of your comment lies in it being a textbook example of ‘whataboutism’, coincidentally enough a tactic Trump uses every other sentence.
By the way, thanks for outing yourself.
It never happened? WOW just wow. So if I type into a search engine the phrase Black lives matter advocating for violence, nothing will turn up? Talk about outing oneself indeed. It doesn’t get more backwards than that.
You do that.
Please find (and provide a link) for a Black Lives Matter spokesperson advocating for violence or harm (exclusive of their legitimate prosecution/conviction) to a cop.
That you (eagerly) subscribe to the myth tells me all I need to know about your political sensibilities.
Bobs I’m just using the same yardstick to judge both, unlike yourself. Far as I know BLM has no ‘leader’ you probably know this thou.Hence your attempt to enforce a box you can CONtrol around the discussion. If a gathering of trump supporters turns violent because of the actions of a minority within that group (or maybe due to outside provocation) and they are ALL run to ground as violent fascist bigots like you say, then it stands to reason that when a BLM gathering turns the same way we can make the same assumptions? I am unaware of a single BLM gathering that didn’t include violence on some level. You and others here have two standards. I find the violence perpetrated by both sides to be disgusting you and others seem to feel it’s ok if it’s your side. Oh and by the way you don’t know anything about my politicking except that I disagree with some of what you have said and offered valid reasons for my opinion, you on the other hand have done what?
Check this out
And then theres this
Big difference. A peace Prize to an undeniably violent movement, nonsense just like Barry getting one for starting wars and warmongering in general, nonsense.
“I’m just using the same yardstick to judge both”…
Black Lives Matter & neo-Nazis/KKK. You might want to bring a few more yardsticks for the latter.
“Far as I know BLM has no ‘leader’ you probably know this thou.Hence your attempt to enforce a box you can CONtrol around the discussion.”
= ‘I can’t find any instances where Black Lives Matter spokespersons advocated violence and/or the killing of police officers’.
“If a gathering of trump supporters…”
…like the forementioned torch-carrying neo-Nazis and KKK chanting “blood and soil” (hmmm, where have we heard that before?) and “Jew will not replace us” (new one to me- probably not to you).
“you don’t know anything about my politicking…”
Aside from your eagerness to rationalize and normalize the existence of a couple of histories most notorious collections of terrorists. That’s plenty enough, thanks.
We see your true colors shining thru, President Trump – every time you open your mouth.
In 2008 I would have identified 100% with the “Black Lives Matter ” side of this Charlottesville fight. But I can’t get worked up
by this argument anymore, Something has happened to me since then. I’ve been reading Consortium News, Counterpunch,
and 21st Century Wire etc. I don’t believe that Russia interfered in our election; not at all. When I watch former civil rights
African-American leaders attack Putin and Russia I get a disgusted feeling. When i see Black Lives Matter people focus all
their energy on Trump I don’t feel sympathy anymore. I feel like the Left isn’t left anymore. I can’t get worked up.
“I’ve been reading Consortium News, Counterpunch”
Reading and understanding are two different things.
We all knew prior to Election Day that Trump’s racist history was incontrovertible … it’s time to stop holding handkerchiefs to our noses and expressing “shock” that the POTUS is not only an unapologetic liar but a racist, by all that is meaningful — his behavior, his acts, his conduct — words are very very cheap … Particularly Trump’s.
Once again, he’s playing the media like a violin and his supporters complain that “the anti-trump media” is fomenting a coup … both are — effectively — true.
We live in a deeply divided, deeply racist society… much of the “libertarian” and “conservative” hatred of “big government” and “the welfare state” — issues that unite them along with the waste of tax dollars on public education and public services, arose out of thinly disguised resentment of government assistance to the “unworthy” — front and center — people of color, immigrants and other “ne’er-do-wells” …
During the Rodney King riots, the police eventually requested the TV stations limit their rebroadcasting of the beating of Reginald Denny (a white truck driver in the wrong place at the wrong time who was savagely beaten by a small mob of African-Americans) … the reason was that every time the video was shown (and it was on an almost continuous loop in the first days), the police switchboards lit up with citizens demanding that the police “do something” because this man was being “savagely beaten” …
I imagine that violence in Ferguson (which was almost entirely property crime) and Baltimore (same) and other Black Lives Matters related events — as well as the more tangential episodes like the Dallas police ambush — very likely all morphed into a similar “black folks out of control, and the cops do nothing…” meme. (see also the black-on-black crime meme elevated to further the black-on-white crime memes)
Yes, I think that 3 years of Black Lives Matters has stirred previously dormant anti-black and racist sentiments. I said during 2016, that it was ironic (in a very sad way) that Trump became America’s Howard (mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore) Beale … blaming Trump is almost certainly giving him too much credit. My problems with Black Lives Matters lies in their lack of politics … which renders much of their “protest” virtual “performance art” … is “the left” now a movement of Martyrs, Heather Heyer now being the latest?
There are many complex issues to be discussed seriously … those discussions (like actual transformation of the Democratic Party) appear extremely unlikely
The title of this essay was irresistible troll bait.
All of those monuments to the Confederacy should be taken to DC and displayed together as an outdoor museum. Winners become heroes and losers become traitors, and it all depends upon which side killed more and destroyed more.
It is articles like these that make me question motivation of the author. Anyone who actually has seen the 3 press conferences would know the article is full of falsehoods. David Duke is an FBI operative who never misses a step to make the President look bad.
When will the author disavow Black Lives Matter and Anti Fa? For their clear violence and call for dead cops. And oh yes, eliminate Free Speech and the First Amendment. The Double standards are being exposed.
The events on Saturday are contrived to hurt President Trump and his agenda. America is going down the tubes and this Brave Man is fighting the GOP and Democratic Swamps who are destroying America. Race baiting is all Clinton,McConnell, Ryan and Obama have to shove Americans down the Globalist drain. It is they who push debt slavery and endless wars.
SOMEBODY MUST HAVE OPENED THE TROLL GATE. HERE THEY COME……..
From a certain stovepipe perspective sure. In your case…… you have been here awhile. Was there an opening of said gate at an earlier date I am unaware of?
Antifa and BLM have been the instigators of violence throughout Trump’s campaign. This article is another example of trying to smear Trumps anti Globalist Pro America agenda by associating it with Racist groups. The majority of the right wing crowd was not in KKK garb or carrying Nazi flags. This whole thing was set up by the Mayor, Police Chief and Governor. They surrounded the right wing groups on all sides except where they let Antifa gather( who by the way did not have a permit). Then they revoked the right win group’s permit and made them only be able to exit by passing through the Antifa gauntlet where they were beaten with bats, gassed, maced and otherwise assaulted while the police stood by and did nothing. The woman killed by the car had just moments before been assaulting the driver of the car who had already had two of his windows smashed out. He probably just panicked. If a mob was surrounding you and smashing the windows of your car what would you do? This article is more bullshit trying to spin an event that was obviously instigated by left wing violence into something that it is not. When BLM killed those cops did the press demand that Obama denounce BLM? Aren’t you the guys who defend Islam and say that the actions of a few extremists do not define the rest of the group? So now there is a seamless whole that encompasses all Trump supporters, nationalists, whites, southerners, and anyone slightly to the right of Trotsky as so called “Nazis” who it should be OK to silence and punch? You will rue the day you shut down the Constitutional protections granted by the First Amendment, because what follows will be the Second Amendment in all its savagery. Go on and quote some phony stats from the SPLC or some similarly biased analysis that we all know is paid for by the same side that funds Antifa. Call me a racist for not letting my rights get trampled because I am white by you rabid left wing freaks. Perhaps you should read Kipling’s poem When the Saxon Began to Hate, and reflect on how your own bias and implicit support of left wing violence as being justified is leading to a much larger conflict
JeffS – that’s a great post, Jeff. Yes, when all of the evidence comes out, you will probably be proven correct. I think this is exactly what happened. A complete set-up.
Do not feed this troll.
Poor whitey. PEOPLE JUST DON’T BUY YOUR BLATANT RACISM.
Whats the matter? Identity politics is cool for you but not for us? Thats not how it works, Clown. Bring it on tough guy. You guys are pretty good at burning down your own neighborhoods. Lets see what you can do out in the country. It would seem to be a good idea to not kill the people who grow and pay for the food that you eat through their hard work and taxation, but by all means try if you think you are up to it, little man
YOUR UGLY VIOLENT THREATS TELL ME WHO YOU ARE.
Mike k. Please explain how or why even you should be taken seriously? Pretty sure the way to defeat an internet ‘troll’ isn’t to actually become one. You have provided only raw emotion and one sided ‘facts’ and then resorted to name calling and personal attacks. Incidentally all theses are accepted ‘tells’ when assessing a persona as ‘troll’. I soooo do not support Trump and wouldn’t have voted for him given the chance, I do think one side gets a pass her tho and that Trump calling that hypocrisy out is a good thing regardless as to my ‘feelings’ about trump. There is ZERO way you/I/Us can be considered informed if we react based on information stovepiped from a single side. Feel free to carry on with this mode of thinking/reacting as you wish. Please don’t full hissy fit when you get pushback to such nonsense tho.
Gregory Herr. I will defend your right to speak and be heard even if I disagree? Something to that effect I believe.
I HAVE NO DEFENSE. USE YOUR OWN JUDGMENT FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
Yes, Voltaire. Very much to that effect. A truly enlightened man ahead of his time and now, ours too. Civil liberties and freedom of thought were big in his book.
I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to death your right to say it.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
We have freedom of speech in the US. If we don’t like what some people think, say and assemble together in favor of, then we are against these provisions in the constitution. We cannot shut down or lock up people we disagree with. That’s what Hitler did and that’s how the Nazi party took over. Louise and some others who said this is another Soros/Deep State set-up are right, I believe. Because, …what was on the MSM news tonight? Reports blaming Trump for both sides as well as berating his comments. Another reason for impeachment, right? And so it goes.
How do you prohibit or regulate racism? To start with, how about a more rounded education to include ethics. Maybe more support of churches, Sunday schools, teaching of morals and the golden rule. Someone once said that teachers should be employed as much for their morals as for their scholasticism. I’m quite sure the Deep State doesn’t really want us focusing on better education either, but we should. Deeper thinkers, well read graduates, honest approaches would bring fewer wars and more diplomatic solutions to our many problems. We wouldn’t be fighting verbally, psychologically, or physically with countries all around the world. A consummation devoutly to be wished!
Virginia – good post.
“Louise and some others who said this is another Soros/Deep State set-up are right, I believe.”
Yes, of course! You know, I’ve talked about agents provocateurs in the past, but for some reason I didn’t think of them in this instance. It all fits. Bring in the paid Nazi thugs, then bus in paid thugs for the other side. Have the police back off (like they did in this case), and then the two sides go at it, of course with innocents in the mix as well. The Deep State are even known to take borderline mentally ill people, loner types, and then rile them up until they act out.
They’ve even taken loners who wouldn’t know how to make a bomb if their life depended on it, built a make-shift bomb for them, indoctrinated them, incited them, and then gave them instructions on where to go (like Times Square). Then the cops swoop in, arrest the guy (who doesn’t even know what’s going on) and, voila, we have another “terrorist” off the streets, people. You’re safe again!
“An agent provocateur may be a police officer or a secret agent of police who encourages suspects to carry out a crime under conditions where evidence can be obtained; or who suggests the commission of a crime to another, in hopes they will go along with the suggestion and be convicted of the crime.
A political organization or government may use agents provocateurs against political opponents. The provocateurs try to incite the opponent to do counterproductive or ineffective acts to foster public disdain or provide a pretext for aggression against the opponent.”
These guys can be paid to attend protests and create chaos (by pretending to be white supremacists), but they’re also paid to go on different Internet sites and stir up trouble there too.
Makes you wonder how much is real out there and how much isn’t. You are right about education, Virginia. If people were educated on what is really going on, they would know what to look for. I had completely forgotten about agents provocateurs. Thanks to everybody for reminding me. I’m not saying that that’s what happened in this case, but there’s a good chance it could be. I doubt there’s very many “white supremacists” out there. Sure, there’s people worried about having jobs and having to compete, but not worried about whether someone’s skin is a different color. This all makes a lot more sense now.
Do not feed this troll.
There are very few actual KKK people in the US today. They have very little in the way of money or organisation. I doubt very much they are capable of putting together a march of 500 people without outside money and help.
thank you Virginia … this has turned into another anti-Trump self-congratulatory festival … as if the violence “proved” the point … as if car rammings were not (all too quickly) becoming commonplace occurrences … and almost everyone has access to a car …
The driver appears to be a rage-filled immature loser … the sort whose mother has called 911 when he threatened to beat her up …. there does seem to me to be some sort of crisis within American masculinity but this isn’t the time or place for that subject
read the whole thing .. your personal “reality” is not supported by the folks who’ve been studying these things for decades …. for the 40 or so years since would-be revolutionary violence by “the left” peaked
according to the fbi, the racial makeup of the perpetrators of terrorism in the us since 911 were mostly of hispanic origin. so…..if you believe hispanics to be white…..then yes.
At the start of the 20th century, aside from war and foreign entanglements, violence in the US was abundant in all sorts of crime and labor strife. After WW1, it was the same coming to a head in the 1920s with Prohibition and in the 1930s with its repeal accompanied by the drive for unions. Violence on the right was dominated by the police, militias and private scabs and goons with the left fighting back possessing fewer weapons. The lead up to global class warfare found the left vastly outnumbered. The same was true of actual warfare until the US and Soviet Russia got a second wind defeating the extreme fascist Right. Victory for the Allies in WW2 was short lived as the victors clashed with each other during the post Cold War until the collapse of the Soviet Union. Domestically, in the US the struggle for civil rights and justice led to more violence. The freedom fighters were outgunned by the extreme rightists and their protectors, the police. The left won some victories but they were tenuous. After 1990, as the surviving superpower, US hegemony projected itself over the entire planet until it overperfomed and confronted growing resistance and dissent with escalating violence. Will violence end? The odds are against it.
Somebody wrote Trump’s first-response comments, and he ended up looking like a racist fool when he got in front of a microphone and camera with them. If that person was in Bannon’s camp, both his and Bannon’s days are numbered, IMO.
“he ended up looking like a racist fool…”
Not particularly difficult for a racist fool to look like a racist fool.
Lee Stranahan is doing an excellent job documenting the tactics used:
Charlottesville is not the last site for paid agitators from Anti Fa and Black Lives Matter (and other George Soros fronts) to further their agenda.
The tactics used by the Soros and Democratic Party are from the exact same playbook used to overthrow the Ukrainian Government (remember Victoria Nuland?). Soros should be arrested for sedition.
The Establishment wants debt slavery and endless wars, and will use race to divide us. We are all Americans.
To Jeffrey – this is right on target. It comes straight out of the CIA/ Soros playbook. When there were disturbances in 2011 in Deraa, Syria, Assad sent unarmed police officers with batons to control the unrest. Mysterious snipers appeared on rooftops and targeted both police and the crowd. They deliberately targeted people like women and small children to inflame the crowd. The same thing happened in Ukraine in 2014. Snipers appeared from a building controlled by the opposition and opened fire on both Ukrainian police and demonstrators. These are now widely believed to be Yugoslavian mercenaries hired by the CIA.
Following the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003, there was extensive resistance to the occupation from the population. Shia/ Sunni mosques were blown up with mass casualties to ignite a civil war between the 2 factions, a classic colonial rule tactic used throughout the British Empire. SAS troops disguised as Arabs were caught planting explosives and arrested by the Iraqi police. You have to be on the look out for provocations and false flags – you can’t take anything at face value.
mark – your posts are invaluable. Thanks for posting.
Regarding “paid agitators”, that Jason Kessler fellow sure looks like one.
“Rumors abound on white nationalist forums that Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to involvement in the Occupy movement and past support for President Obama.”
He’ll agitate for Obama. So it is a more than a little strange the same guy is out working with the Klan and North Carolina Nazis.
“KKK leader seeking Charlottesville rally has history as FBI informant “
The FBI has a history of manufacturing violence to justify its existence.
I’m getting an impression here of professional hell-raisers who will work for ANYBODY if the money is good. Some strange stuff is really happening, and it’s not altogether clear to me who is behind it all.
Zachary Smith – “I’m getting an impression here of professional hell-raisers who will work for ANYBODY if the money is good.”
Kind of like the paid mercenaries fighting in the Middle East. They’ll work for anybody if the money is good. Look at John McCain embracing the Nazis in Ukraine AND smiling for pictures with the so-called “moderate” rebels in Syria. I contend none of these wars would have been possible without a lot of paid actors doing the work of the Deep State.
Russiagate is losing steam, people are starting to realize there’s no evidence. They need something else to ignite the public’s hatred. “Hey, guys, time to roll out the white on black violence.”
“Some strange stuff is really happening, and it’s not altogether clear to me who is behind it all.” At least you have your eyes open, Zachary. Keep them that way. Don’t be quick (and I know you’re not) to condemn one side; just stand back, follow the details, look on from above and use your head.
Jeffrey Byrd – great post!
Thank God even some Republican Senators and major CEO’s are seeing this fraud for what he really is, and dumping Trump. The Orange Thing is getting ever closer to the exit from his failed Presidency.
Still sore about the election I see. So whats your strategy to win in 2018 & 2020? More of the same? All that ‘hate whitey’ kind of backfired on you guys, in spite of all the vote fraud and the crooked primaries. I do wish you luck, as you certainly are going to need it. If you think you are going to somehow remove Trump from his duly elected office and overturn the will of the American People, you are one sick little pup. That ain’t the way America works. We have played along with you guys so far, but when the gloves come off you will know what I am getting at. Good day
It may be that these events in Charlottesville will have some positive spin off in revealing the mealymouthed fascist sympathizers for what they are. They all join in the songs of praise by David Duke and his ilk for Donald Trump. Racists can be pretty shy and devious, but this support from their President is emboldening more of them to come out in the open. Anybody who felt secure in that it couldn’t happen here may also get a wake up call that it is indeed happening here. Wake up America your President is a Fascist! He is Hitler in drag. I am really sorry about that, but we need to call a spade a spade. Nothing less will do. Does he have the power over the minds of the American people that Hitler gained over the German people? Not yet, but he is working on it. It took Adolph some years to build his brown shirts etc. who would later be his storm troops. The torch light march was eerily reminiscent of Hitler’s theater, on which it was modeled. Now we know whose side Trump was on in this affair. Sieg Heil Trumpen Fuhrer!
It really is time now to choose which side you are on. Equivocation and avoidance of this crucial choice just won’t cut it. The French existentialists in WWII realized that in these times you are challenged to embrace your authentic selfhood, or be doomed to live in bad faith, denying your opportunity to choose your real identity, instead of being a fake person living a lie.
“It may be that these events in Charlottesville will have some positive spin off in revealing the mealymouthed fascist sympathizers for what they are.”
It certainly has been the case in this comment thread.
backwardevolution I was pretty sure of previously, but clearly mark and Evangelista as well.
The torchlit march was eerily reminiscent of the Ukrainian National Socialist Party (renamed Svoboda by their CIA handlers) complete with swastikas and SS regalia. You know – the people McCain and Graham have always been happy to share a platform with and send weapons to. I don’t know why McCain doesn’t like home grown Nazis – foreign ones are his best mates.
“Sieg Heil Trumpen Fuehrer” (note the ‘e’ because we don’t have an umlaut) – and you call others trolls? Curious that condemning both sides in a violent clash is apparently proof of support for one side but condemning only one side, as demanded by MSM, the establishment, all the talking heads, NPR etc, is still not proof of support for the other side. Trump will never do anything right in the eyes of all these people but he had it right first time; both sides are to blame but not equally.
Political violence in the USA is largely the preserve of the Fascist Left. During the election, Clinton and the DNC instigated a large scale campaign to recruit homeless people and mentally ill people to cause violence at Trump meetings. They were paid $1,500 each. This was part of an extensive campaign of violent dirty tricks.
Following Trump’s victory, Clinton/ Sanders/ Soros/ the Fake News Media orchestrated a nationwide campaign of rioting in cities across America. Police and anyone thought to be a Trump supported were violently attacked. Shops and businesses were damaged, torched and looted. Whole car parks full of cars were smashed up. This was openly encouraged/ supported/ condoned and glorified by them.
But what about the right wing rioting when Obama was elected? – Oh, that’s right, there weren’t any.
Left celebrities like Madonna and Gifford and many others openly called for the murder of Trump. A Republican congressman was shot by a Sanders supporter.
Fascist Left thugs routinely use extreme violence, attacking people and torching buildings, whenever there is a conservative speaker at US universities.
But what about the right wing thugs who use violence to prevent Leftist speakers at US universities? – Oh, that’s right, there aren’t any.
Many police officers were murdered in Black Lives Matter rioting. 5 were shot dead in one incident. People like Sanders and the MSM never condemned this or BLM.
If the Left are the victims on this occasion, they have to ask themselves who instigated and normalised political violence in the first place. They have been meting out extreme violence for the past 10 months to anyone they choose to smear as Nazis or Fascists. The Fascist Left even smashed up a Flower Show because some Republicans were there. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. You play with matches, you get your fingers burnt. When political action turns to violence, tragedy inevitably follows. Conservatives have endured extreme violence from the Fascist Left for the past 10 months without retaliating. That may now have changed.
The Left Mayor of Charlottesville is a corrupt Clinton stooge, who did a great deal to engineer this confrontation. His Deputy Mayor is a black racist who routinely declares how he hates all white people and wants to kill all f****** white people.
All the violence we have seen since Trump’s election has been instigated by the Fascist Left. That is a fact. The KKK etc. are insignificant. The danger to democracy comes from the Deep State, who are happy to use the bully boys of the Fascist Left to achieve their ends.
Well mark, do you know B.E.? You two seem to be on the same page. What took you so long finding us? I won’t waste words on you. You are a troll, and I won’t feed you henceforth. The same goes for your soulmate B.E.
mike k – this is the problem with the left. Knee jerk labeling people “trolls” just because they disagree with you. What Mark had to say actually contained some facts, the other side of the story. Whites actually voted for Obama and wanted only the best for him; they were cheering for him. It’s an insult for you to portray them in any other light.
Mike, please, look at my response to BobS above. The Deep State is behind this. Neither
of the fighting groups will profit from this. It was and will be a ploy to further reduce
our rights due to “security”.
Who is BE? LOL
mark – unfortunately, what you stated is exactly what’s been going on.
“The KKK etc. are insignificant. The danger to democracy comes from the Deep State, who are happy to use the bully boys of the Fascist Left to achieve their ends.”
Exactly, the KKK are totally insignificant, but it’s interesting how the left grabs a hold of them, uses them. They aren’t getting their way, so they reach into the bottom of the filing cabinet and say, “I know, let’s pull out the KKK.” Go figure.
You are totally right: the Deep State has got the President by the balls, Congress is bought, and the inmates and thumb suckers are having a hissy fit.
I don’t have any evidence of this but I wouldn’t be surprised if a fair number of the KKK there were Deep State or Soros agents provocateur. The DNC/ Clinton machine had a factory turning out these people. See James O’Keefe at Project Veritas.
The KKK ceased to exist in the 70’s. I guarantee you that anyone walking around in public in KKK robes is on someone’s payroll. Either the government or some shadowy Soros organization. Speaking of the KKK, why are Democrats totally OK with Robert Byrd, but start foaming at the mouth when Trump brings up the obvious facts that there was violence on both sides in this incident? Selective outrage is a Democrat thing. That and feigned victimhood. Hey you guys gotta dance with the one that brung you, eh? Keep hammering away with that old identity politic playbook, and be sure to call everyone who politely disagrees ‘Deplorable’, ‘Racist’, or ‘Then Next Hitler’. That worked really good last time.
JeffS – “I guarantee you that anyone walking around in public in KKK robes is on someone’s payroll. Either the government or some shadowy Soros organization.”
Yep, and inside the opposing party would be Soros-paid people too. A manufactured set-up to guarantee the results they wanted. Then throw in innocent parties, maybe a few mentally-ill loners who are easy pickings for enticing to do something stupid, just to “protect his group”, and it’s a recipe for annihilating one side and making the other side look innocent.
There is a great big silent majority out there whose voices have not been heard for a very long time. In fact, they’ve been forgotten, silenced.
At Trump rallies, they were accosted, sworn at. The progressives at Berkeley, while claiming to be “progressive”, have smashed buildings, set fires and stopped free speech. Destructive children who are acting out because they’re not getting their way, angry that they might not be the top of the heap, furious that someone might actually question them. George Soros is providing the money for a good deal of this mayhem. His money is actually paying protesters to go out and create havoc.
From coast to coast, the so-called progressives are splitting the country in half. The other half is just now waking up and fighting back, and if push comes to shove, which looks like it might happen, look out below! This is going to erupt.
The death of the woman at the rally is a terrible, terrible thing. But before we jump all over the map, let’s get all of the evidence. President Trump is right; there’s hatred on BOTH sides. Both sides. And he’s right that this has been going on for a very long time.
This is not white nationalism rearing its ugly head. These are people who have been silenced by calling them “racist, bigot, nationalist” every time they bring up jobs, the immigration policy, anything actually. These are people who for years have been told to stand down and shut up.
But we don’t have a word for this type of behavior, do we? How about we call it “gagism” or “suppressism”? Call it what you will, but these people actually have a different view of how the country should be run, and for this they are called “deplorables”. Talk about throwing someone in the gutter when they don’t happen to agree with you!
This country is going to absolutely explode. The lid is coming off.
“At Trump rallies…”
Like the one in Charlottesville, Va.
“George Soros is providing the money..”
For those who don’t speak in code: “Jews will not replace us!… Blood and soil!”.
“these people actually have a different view of how the country should be run…”
By white people, and for white people.
“…and for this they are called “deplorables”.”
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…
Gotta love what consortiumnews.com has become.
Yes, it is sad, because none of you here see the events as they developed. This violence in VA
was very well manufactured. Look at it from outside of the box. There will be more of these
incitements happen, I believe. I lived and protested during the Vietnam war, remember the infiltrations
and the violence. The result? A) Nixon due to “law and order” as well as the SCOTUS decision to
allow locations to determine who can protest where and how.
Remember that the main goal of the Deep State or Establishment is to control the “masses”. This can
be achieved by “divide and conquer”. So, please, ask yourself always: CUI BONO?
The supremacists applied for a permit over a month ago. City denied it.They went to court to claim
1st amendment rights. Judge agreed. Charlottesville has been known as a peaceful and somewhat
liberal town. The governor must have known, what this permit and march would and could do.
The supremacists bussed people in for their protest, but so did Antifa (a rather violent anarchist group,
which had shown during Trump’s inauguration, what they were about.). Thus you have two violent
groups there, one with a permit, the other without one.
Once they are getting close to each other, the police is told to stand down. I don’t think we will ever
be told the true reason for this. Police comes back, when the fights are raging everywhere and the car
comes into play. Result of this whole issue?
Well, if the supremacists had just their march without interruption, there would have been no injuries
nor death. This way though, the media pick it up right away and with their own interpretations. Rightly
or wrongly the racism is laid at Trump’s feet and Antifa and its actions are not presented.
This kind of stirring the pot has been used by the CIA in many countries before or even now in Syria.
Why not try it at home? If there is enough stirring of hatred and division, the people wanting peace
will agree to be further controlled by the DS: security over rights. Thus: Who profits???
Sorry for the long rant.
Louise – it was a good rant and had a lot of truth. We need to wait and see what really went on here, get all of the evidence. Riots have been manufactured before, and we know all about Soros paying people to attend rallies and bully. Lots of false flags going on as well, like the Jewish kid making bomb threats and trying to make it look like it was from anti-semites. We’ll have to get all of the evidence.
Louise, this is a spot on reply. Once you are truly awake to the machinations of the deep state, you can see how it is all working. I have sat back the past few days, watching the events, and then watching the reaction and it is just working so perfectly. I am happy to see there are people here who see that, and are not falling for the divisiveness that was intended. We need to keep our eye on the target and not get distracted.
You really are a Trump supporter B.E. Your backing up his racist bullshit really amazes me. You seemed to have some good ideas, but now I need to re-evaluate where you are coming from. Taking a swing at the Berkeley folks too. My wife was in the free speech movement there, back in the day. Watch out for those dangerous hippies the righteous cops were beating up on, eh? Those protesting the Klan were really violent folks, eh? We need to protect the innocent Kkklansmen from these violent peaceniks. I guess that guy with his deadly car showed them a thing or two. Thanks for your thoughts B.E., it’s good to know where you are coming from. At least you are letting the cat out of the bag with your rant above. Now we know more clearly who you are.
For the past 10 months the Fascist Left have been dishing out the violence. Like the Sanders supporter who shot a Republican congressman. Like the Fascist Left thugs who smashed up a flower show because some Republicans were there. What goes around, comes around. Looks like the boot’s on the other foot for once.
mike k – “Taking a swing at the Berkeley folks too.” Have you seen how these progressives have been trying to shut down free speech, the violence?
I don’t think you have your eyes open, mike. I try to see both sides, but I do speak up when I see one side being painted as saints and the other side painted as bullies. Both sides are acting up. Both. If you just see one, you are blind.
All this is right on target. I think my entry probably duplicated yours.
mark – it’s nice to have another voice who actually sees there are “two” sides. Thanks, Mark.
Exactly. It doesn’t much matter what people think they are trying to represent when it appears as if they are auditioning for the Jerry Springer Show.
I’m not addressing any particular incident, but from an old-fashioned labor-lefty point of view, it has always seemed to me that speakers I disagree with should never be shouted down, but rather, allowed (as I would like for myself) to speak freely and without interruption. Then communicate a rebuttal in a timely and appropriate fashion. Good arguments/ideas reap their own merits and faulty ones are outed by exposure, not censure. That’s the way it’s supposed to work. What was it Voltaire said?
Hi Backwards Evo Yep. And what Trump basically said in the presser was that anyone who picks up a bat, gun or runs over people for their political views has no place in America, no exceptions. Progressives see themselves exempt from that. So, there is always room in the world for Hitler’s Brown Shirts – if it is for a good cause. lol.
Watching what is happening is like watching a march to hell with self-righteous banner waving. We need to step back and think about the consequences of resistance phenomena which began before the inauguration and remember that there are millions of people who voted for Trump, not because of him but because of Hillary and what she represented. The media has been absolutely irresponsible, representing a very small slice of our society and feeding on the frenzy they have done their best to create.
We need to also recognize that what is going on effectively sabotaged efforts to rationalize our foreign policy which seems to have been the intent of leaders from the beginning. Unfortunately the side show they have created could be disastrous for our country.
Its all just MSM spin. No matter what approach Trump took he was going down.
If he denounced he would have “accused of posturing” or “calling off his own troops” (thus admitting he owns the movement):
NYT Reporter: In Denouncing White Supremacy, Rubio and Cruz are Just ‘Posturing’
These Are Donald Trump’s Racist Troops
Both the Baseball Diamond Shooter & Charlottesville car driver were certified mentally impaired individuals. If you want to blame Trump and Conservatives for one then blame Bernie and the Progressives for the other. However, most Americans are not cross burning neo-Nazis or bat wielding Antifa thugs and would have been nowhere near Charlottesville, given their druthers. My guess is that as the Russia narrative collapses, the MSM is looking around for a replacement – and all this will do is drive more and more moderately leaning Americans away from the MSM. This is exactly how I discovered Consortium News.
I do not want to depose Trump because he stole the election. Trump won the crooked rigged election according to the crooked rigged election’s rules. I want him out due to his violations of the law making him unfit to govern. We got rid of Nixon for being a crook; Trump should be shown the door for the same reason. His gross violations of the emoluments clause in the Constitution should be enough cause to sack him. His interference with justice department officials investigating his administration is another impeachable offense.
so you want to get rid of trump for using his office to cover up malfeasance by his subordinates, like nixon? ok. provide evidence.
you want him out for his violations of the law? provide evidence.
gross violations of the emoluments clause should be enough. provide evidence.
interference with justice department officials investigating his administration? proof?
i’m all for following the law. the law requires evidence. not just internet trolling.
so far trump is not great but not hilter either.
Just do a web search for “evidence to impeach Trump”. Plenty of stuff there.
And Trump does not have to be Hitler to be the worst President of the US ever – by far.
yes, by far.
yes, your evidence is so convincing that the entire congress has started impeachmnent proceedings.
come on, that law degree of yours from “troll u” doesn’t automatically imply that you passed the bar.
you are kinda funny though
Congress isn’t impeaching him because it is controlled by Republicans. No president has ever been impeached by his own party. This is politics, not law.
Not only his subordinates. Trump was impeachable the moment he refused to divest. Many of his violations of the emoluments clause have been perpetrated right out in the open. And the evidence of his more complicated financial crimes will be supplied by Mueller. We won’t know the details for some time, but I’ve no doubt they are there or Trump wouldn’t openly be committing obstruction of justice to stop the investigation. Trump has the authority to fire the FBI director and the Attorney General, but firing them to appoint someone else who will agree to stopping the investigation is obstruction of justice and impeachable.
Emoluments clause – so funny.
If people were actually dealt with for violations of the law, Killary would be in jail for war crimes for the next 1,000 years, sharing the exercise yard with Bush/ Rumsfeld/ Cheney/ Rice/ Blair. That’s even without being the most corrupt/ dishonest/ mendacious politician in the history of the planet.
More nonsense from those seeking to overturn the election, now trying hard to add the “racist” label to the floundering charge of “collusion.” Now that this website (July 24) has weakened that charge by definitively proving there was no “Russian hack” but a rather leak of the DNC. the tactic is shifting. Interestingly the author echoes Joe Biden, who lectured the President, tweeting”There is only one side,” This coming from Obama’s V.P. and “Special Envoy to Ukraine,” who joined with State’s Victoria Nuland to employ real swastika bearing Nazis, the followers of Stephan Banderas, to orchestrate a violent overthrow of the elected president, Victor Yanukovich, Anyone familiar with that coup, so well documented by Mr. Parry, is aware of the murderous brutality of those actors in what was portrayed as peaceful demonstration, knows on which side one found the Vice-President. Yes, Mr. Biden, there is indeed only one side.
don’t forget whose son ended up being appointed to the board of directors of one of ukraines biggest oil companies not long after the “coup”.
Not to mention Monsanto’s long-term aspirations in Ukraine . . .
And now US SeaBees are building the infrastructure for a ‘permanent US military presence’.
Link to article with map of Black Sea activities :
Um, you know who’s the current CinC of the US, right?
Nobody needs to put the racist label on Donald Trump; he took care of that all by himself.
There is an article in The Intercept today about Trumps racist history, It is extensive.
Donald Trump Has Been a Racist All His Life — And He Isn’t Going to Change After Charlottesville
This is very true. McCain’s/ Biden’s/ Graham’s pet Nazis burnt 100 people to death in Odessa. This was just ignored by the western Fake News Media. Like their pet terrorists in Syria who filmed themselves beheading a 12 year old and eating dead bodies. Move along there folks, nothing to see here, just some moderate rebels armed and bankrolled with US taxpayers money.
The Russia Hacking balloon has deflated and has to be replaced with Nazi smears. A similar tactic was used in the UK when Corbyn in the Labour Party was smeared with anti Semitism.
mark – yep, “Okay, boys, it’s time to bring in the Nazi actors. This crank this baby back up.”
hate is hate is hate.
those of you who hate trump or hate hillary or hate obama are full of hate.
those of you who claim to KNOW that someone like a trump is a racist, white supremacist are full of hate.
i don’t care what color you are or what religion or what country of origin, or what gender or who’s genitals you prefer. or any of that crap.
i love everybody. even racists. because love in your heart keeps out this stupid hate that so many of you are full of.
you think your hate of them is any different than their hate of others? well, guess what? you just became a supremacist.
i’m tired of all this.
stop hating haters.
dear hatebyu, you seem to be wearing hate tinted glasses. Everywhere you look, you see hate. This is called projection. The world seems to be as you yourself are. Take off your glasses – you might be able to see that people on this site are not full of hate, but love for the truth.
Here is a link to a recent truth :
This is disturbing to me. There is absolutely no reason for protestors to be ‘hating on’ a statue which
simply commemorates ‘the boys in gray’. They were boys, they wore gray. Due to their circumstances.
Historical fact. This statue should have perhaps been relocated, but definitely not desecrated.
These same “boys” were not wearing gray, but rather white robes when they lynched African slaves. They treated these Africans liked the Nazis treated the Jews. Maybe that is why the Nazis who showed up wanted to support their confederate brothers.
Those “boys in gray” were taking up arms against the United States to defend the institution of slavery. That particular statue was commemorated in 1924, when apologists for the Confederacy were spreading the myth of the ‘Lost Cause’ (as told in “Birth of a Nation”) while at the same time enforcing Jim Crow laws and lynching blacks.
There’s every reason to ‘hate on’ such a statue, as well as schools, roads, public building, public parks, etc. named in honor of traitors who fought The War of Treason in Defense of Slavery.
The only upside to this past week-end in Virginia (where white supremacists gathered to protest the removal of a statue that honored someone responsible for the deaths of many patriotic Americans) is their shining light on the fact that Nazis and neo-Confederates are essentially the same people.
the boys in gray were not taking up arms in defense of slavery. nor were the northern troops trying to end it.
lincoln was not idolized for ending slavery. but for forcing the union to remain one.
one big mess. then, as now.
You folks who like to pretend the American Civil War wasn’t about slavery are so earnest it’s almost cute.
They were boys. They wore gray. If you had been a teenage male in the Southern States
at that time, you would likely have been one of them, through no fault of your own.
“Hating on” the foot soldiers redirects attention from those who give the orders.
We are all freaking hypocrites if we ignore the genocidal tactics which founded this nation.
Maybe the Native Americans should blow up Mt. Rushmore ?
“We are all freaking hypocrites if we ignore the genocidal tactics which founded this nation.”
How about the Trump supporters who marched in Virginia celebrating blood and soil?
“Maybe the Native Americans should blow up Mt. Rushmore ?”
I’m good with that.
The Confederates were defending their homes and communities against a violent invasion by the Washington elite of the day. Slavery was a red herring thrown up at the time and since to justify central government tyranny. We see the same thing today – the Washington elite always want to “defend democracy” and “protect human rights” in places where there happens to be a lot of oil, like Libya, Iran and Venezuela, unless of course they are already US Satellites like Saudi Arabia and the Gulf dictatorships, when those things don’t matter. Lincoln couldn’t give a rat’s arse about slavery.
General Lee, whose statue is being desecrated, and the troops he led, displayed superhuman courage and endurance in the face of impossible odds. His leadership and resilience and human qualities achieved miracles with limited resources. He is truly one of the outstanding figures of US history.
So very different from the black racist deputy mayor of Charlottesville, a man who routinely states he hates all white people and wants to kill all f****** white people. A dog can dance on the grave of a lion, but he’ll always be a dog.
Regardless of what they said, the confederates were defending slavery. They knew it was existed and even if they did not practice it, they thought it was just fine with letting it continue, even when in the face of the Federal effort to end it. They were enablers.
this is what i see….
“Donald Trump is the most evil, dangerous man to ever hold the Presidency of the United States” -mike k
really? that represents love for truth?
ya, ok then.
YES. that is the truth. And I love it. That’s why I share here: I love the truth.
ya, ok then.
mike k – “YES. that is the truth”. That’s not the truth. That’s YOUR truth.
Can’t help but think there’s a tongue in cheek aspect to your comment. Sending you a link to the past…don’t miss the song ” I hate hate”.
You will enjoy, which I really did.
Some background information
One cant but read this and not change ones perspective.
Escape from freedom is also good too. Old but a classic.
Colin has risked and sacrificed his “podium” for the cause. J’suis Fidel. Soy Guevara.
Two of those involved, Charles Kurzman of the University of North Carolina and David Schanzer of Duke University, wrote in The New York Times, “The main terrorist threat in the United States is not from violent Muslim extremists, but from right-wing extremists…
“An officer from a large metropolitan area said that ‘militias, neo-Nazis and sovereign citizens’ are the biggest threat we face in regard to extremism,” they wrote. “One officer explained that he ranked the right-wing threat higher because ‘it is an emerging threat that we don’t have as good of a grip on, even with our intelligence unit, as we do with the Al Shabab/Al Qaeda issue, which we have been dealing with for some time.’”
But a fascist coup in the Ukraine orchestrated by the American “deep state” run by John Mccain, Victoria Nuland, Joe and Hunter Biden backed by the US military industrial complex and coal from Pennsylvania is just peachy? Hypocrite Nation!
I don’t think that most Americans have any idea of how our U.S. Government, is backing the very same kind of racist we have here on our homeland soil, as we support the Ukraine Nazi who does our country’s bidding up against Russia in Eastern Europe. I guess our country’s motto could be, ‘but yeah the Ukraine Nazi are our good Nazi’, while the homegrown racist, not so much. It’s 2 & 1/2 minutes to 12, do you know where your country is? Maybe, this should be the question thrown out there, for the many misinformed Americans to answer, but with that there go I.
In light of Charlottesville, this is precisely the time to make the analogy. Hypocrite nation.
If we are going to be okay with these Nazi hate groups, or make excuses for them, then we might as well invite ISIS and al Queda to march down our Main Streets, as well. I’m sorry, I will observe your First Amendment Rights, when you don’t come to rally dressed in riot gear, brandishing broom handles and warrior shields, along with a couple of assault rifle toting Nazi Rebels, as this is not acceptable in a peaceful society. I understand the Second Amendment, but I also understand what intimates people, and carrying guns in a protest is just not the thing to do. We need in this country to close the divide that has sprung up over time, and this my friends is the most impossible of tasks to acheive it’s goal. We can do this, but only if we want to.
Undoubtedly some demonstratators carried guns. It is legal to do so in Virginia, which is an open-carry state. Having been viciously attacked by Antifa and BLM, among other radical groups, on sundry other occasions they would be foolish not to have made provision for their defence. Shields by the way have long been a defensive weapon. Let’s note, you can find corroborating photos around the ‘net if you look, that some counter-demonstrators also brought guns including AR15s. And many were armed with clubs, baseball bats, water-bottles for throwing. The reported fact is that the violence did not start until antifa and BLM arrived on the scene. The violence could have been much less if the Charlottesville police had acted to stop it; they did not do so on orders from the Mayor. One wonders what his motivation may have been. Did he hope that the violent counter-demonstrators would “sort out” the rightist demonstrators and send them home bloodied and dejected?
More violence occurred when the police would not let the demonstrators evacuate the park in a safe direction after cancellation of the permit and declaration of an unlawful assembly. Police told the demonstrators that they had to leave the same way they had entered and forced them to go right through the waiting violent counter-demonstrators with predictable ensuing violence.
I hold no brief for Duke, the KKK and other racist groups and I’m not sure I even know what alt-right specifically means but such people also have a right to speak and to be protected from violence by police where necessary. Surely the ACLU was instrumental in establishing that years ago in the “Skokie” case. We cannot sometimes toss the constitution out because we don’t like those who are protected by it in a particular case and yet keep it for other people of whom we do approve. We also cannot make accurate judgments if we are only going to read what the MSM say about an event. It is clear that WaPo, NYT, CNN, NPR and the usual suspects of the MSM have not reported fully or accurately on this incident. It is up to us to get the fullest information we can. Isn’t that why we read Consortium News among others?
As for whether this may have been a DeepState op. it quite likely was but I doubt we’ll ever see proof of that.
chris moffatt – thank you for shedding much light on this subject. I think this is exactly what occurred, an engineered confrontation.
Same thing occurred I think in either Montreal or Toronto, Canada. The police were called off while a group of anarchists (in plain view of the cops) went nuts smashing windows and throwing rocks into what had been a peaceful crowd. Some of these so-called anarchists were filmed and were later found to be wearing exactly the same boots: brand new, police-issue black boots, all dressed in black, faces covered. They later were filmed being allowed back through the police lines, where they undressed, put their black outfits into bags, and left.
So the situation can go from peaceful to a scene of chaos whenever (whoever is pulling these stunts) they want. Maybe they want to shut down the protests, sending everybody fleeing home, or maybe they want to paint a particular side in a bad light. Who knows and, as you say, we’ll probably never find out. But this type of stuff has been documented in the past.
Maybe, but it doesn’t justify not taking any action to control our homegrown racist fascist threat.
Both the Dutchman and Tedesky are spot on in these commentaries.
posted this in an old thread. deserves a look. interested in the take from the learned posters here at CN. also looking for a laugh/cry from some of the new trolls lurking beneath the bridges…
dana rohrabacher grills nuland
roza thanks for the video. Apparently there are many in our nation’s capital who have never read George Washington’s 1796 Farewell Address, where our first president warned about our country getting too involved in foreign entanglements. Of course, like people quoting from the Bible, most recall only what they want to hear when referencing our country’s Founding Fathers.
Listening to Nuland avoid giving direct answers, is like watching Meet the Press while paying close attention you take away nothing from these scoundrels when they speak. Victoria, or ‘Tory’ as I’ve heard her friends refer to her, is like the biggest waste of time ever, if you are hoping to learn anything. This lady instigated a foreign government coup, and yet she makes it sound like a walk in the park. The pain this woman has unleashed upon the good people of Ukraine, is without a doubt a war crime of the highest order. Until our great country comes to grips with this warring nature of ours, the world is going to continue to move away from our sphere of influence, and with that the rest of the world will find other places to partner with too find a better future for mankind.
Probably not many people are as you schooled on American history, our interventions, assassinations, meddling, , but that does not change the fact where are today. Sure, I believe in Karma ,that all of our collective actions will come to bite us in the ass. But how does that attitude help us today? It is not up to us, how we want others to think and react. I do hope that we will support the
way of peace, and stop the fucking wars. I , too know history, but it is not right for us to share our only view,and dismiss others.
My mom was born in Koenigsberg 1938 East Prussia,now commonly called Kalingrad. The city of Emanuel Kant.
Hi Tina, it’s good to hear from you. In my case I think history is entertaining, but as you well know it can be more than that. History may shed light on where we are going, but it also tells a story of how we got to this place we are in at the moment. The bigger problem, is do we learn from it?
Trump is a racist white supremist fascist bigot, who hides behind a lot of doubletalk to conceal this from the majority of Americans, but engages in dog whistle signals to those who are his Nazi/KKK allies.
Donald Trump is the most evil, dangerous man to ever hold the Presidency of the United States. Please do not ever forget this. We must seek every legitimate way to remove this psychopath from his office.
People like you have got a problem with democracy. We have a lot of people like you in the UK. They are Superior Beings who are so much better then everybody else because the sun shines out of their arseholes. People vote to leave the EU, but that doesn’t matter because only Superior Beings like you count.
I would not say he is evil, because he is a businessman, that is what business men do, they make money in whatever way they can. Now, if the business of sales is evil, then that is a different conversation. I just love how our country wanted to get rid of the swamp, no more politicians, we need a business man to run the country. No need for diplomats, federal workers, because our dear leader knows best. All he cares about is his brand, and his kid’s brand. Do you really think Trump gives a shit about you?
So, let us make the best of it. Trump loves trump , and the rest of us can go to hell.. Wow, what a president
“Trump is a racist white supremist fascist bigot, who hides behind a lot of doubletalk to conceal this from the majority of Americans, but engages in dog whistle signals to those who are his Nazi/KKK allies…”
‘and who also has his share of apologists at consortiumnews.com who implicitly defend our racist white supremacist fascist bigot president with their constant ‘but whatabout Hillary?’.
Hope you don’t mind me finishing that for you.
Thanks Bob! But maybe I should add that I forgive those deluded CN commenters, for they know not what they do…….
Sorry, mike k and BobS,
The pendulum seems to have swung and you, along with the rest of the “American ISIS” fanatical are the violence advocating prejudiced and bigoted hate-mongers.
Today, probably not to their surprise, since it is unlikely they ever saw themselves as their antagonistic opponents described them, it is the White Supremacists and KKK who are the noble protesters exercising their Constitutional rights to gather peaceably and vocalize their discontents, to petition the government, apparently take n over by ISIS-style fanatics, to cry out for preservation of their Palmyra-like Heritage Sites and Monuments.
The ISIS-style fanatics of America want to tear down and destroy what are, today, only remembrances from now gone pasts and previous cultures.
Their ISIS-Fanatic style fanatical hordes are mobbing and attacking, denigrating, demonizing, while the while, themselves playing the demons.
Destructions of histories and heritages is always wrong. Is igt wrong to fight back against the fanatics who want to destroy?
If Donald Trump can’t bring the raging destroyers and “outrage” demonstrating protesters-attacking mobs of the American ISIS Army under control so that America’s White Supremacist and KKK sectarian believers may peacefully gather to express their beliefs with the same freedom the Constitution requires be allowed to them as well as all others, perhaps we should petition Presidents Castro and Putin, the first to permit Russia to station at bases in Cuba, the second to permit Russia’s air force to fly air-strikes against our domestic ISIS-Fanatics, to relieve our White-Supremacist and KKK brothers and sisters so that they may exercise their peaceful beliefs without fear of genocides.
Mike – do you have any idea of how arrogant this sounds? Jesus, hanging on a pole, asked his Father to forgive his persecutors for they know not what they do. While I’m sure you are a nice guy, you are neither Jesus nor God the Father. (BTW, I am not defending or pushing Christianity. You brought up the reference.)
Forgiveness is good, but to do so because you think you have superior knowledge is misguided at best. “Deluded commenters”? Really? If others here are so deluded, why are you bothering to have a “battle of wits with the unarmed” as the old joke goes?
Calm down. Take a deep breath. Listen a little. Look in a mirror. We are here to discuss. This type of thing is awfully close to “you are obviously a loser because you don’t agree with me”.
BobS — Are you referring to Carden’s piece “Hillary Clinton Promised Wars Too”? — If so, I don’t agree that noting Mrs. Clinton’s appallingly violent and warmongering track record constitutes an implicit defense of our racist fascist bigot president.
Why are we relitigating the Civil War 150 years after its end? Are you sure this whole sorry affair is not simply being staged, using unwitting but strongly provoked advocates from both sides, by those, with power behind the scenes, who would once again divide and conquer us to distract from their campaign of world conquest and the looting of America to pay for it? Try looking beyond Trump to discern who really masterminded this most recent confrontation, because it’s their agenda to destroy him as well as any shared attempt to solve America’s problems both domestically and internationally. If they can stir up a new Race War amongst us, most citizens will be so distracted they won’t even care about the new Cold War being fought in their name. Trump is a weak president and they are exploiting his fecklessness and reticence to act against them. Maybe they will even decide to keep him if his hapless paralysis can help raise enough hell in the streets. There is always more to the story than the simplistic pseudoanalyses offered in the propagandist media.
Realist – yes, I think you hit the nail on the head. Agents provocateur, engineered violence. Keep your eyes on the ball, people.
My concern also…am worried about freedom of assembly and the right of peaceful protest.