Donald Trump has called for a military parade in Washington DC but a coalition of peace and justice groups hope to stop the parade before it happens, explains Margaret Flowers in this interview with Ann Garrison.
By Ann Garrison
President Trump has asked the Pentagon to plan a military parade in Washington DC on Veteran’s Day, November 11. Democrats have decried the cost and authoritarian implication, and antiwar groups are planning a countermarch. I spoke to Margaret Flowers, medical doctor, Green Party activist, and co-founder of the movement news website Popular Resistance, who is among those organizing the countermarch.
The last time the military held a parade in Washington DC was following the Gulf War in 1991. Photo: AP
Ann Garrison: Margaret, does this countermarch have a name yet, and what can you tell us about the coalition organizing it?
Margaret Flowers: So far the coalition is just calling this the “No Trump Military Parade.” Our goal is to get so many people signed up to come that Trump feels compelled to cancel it. If that doesn’t happen, we hope that we can mobilize more people to come to Washington DC to oppose it than Trump can mobilize to support it.
As far as the coalition goes, and this is still fairly young, we found that a number of organizations that Popular Resistance works with were organizing responses to the military parade. ANSWER put out a call for people to show up. Veterans for Peace and some of their allied organizations were organizing a veterans and indigenous peace march during that weekend, with a message to reclaim Armistice Day, which is what Veterans Day was initially. Interestingly, this is the hundred year anniversary of the first Armistice Day, the end of World War I.
World Beyond War was also getting people to sign on to oppose the parade, so we thought, “Why don’t we bring all these people together and make this a big display of opposition to militarization both at home and abroad?” We had our first exploratory call last week and found that there was a lot of energy and a lot of unity in our messaging against US imperialism, militarization, and austerity for public needs. The people who are behind this are all groups who are strongly opposed to the corporate duopoly war party, and who have been working to revive the peace movement in the United States.
AG: Some of those who identify as peace activists will no doubt say that this march is a reaction to Trump, not to the wars and weapons production that keep escalating no matter who’s in the White House. What’s your response?
MF: Now that President Trump is in office, that’s the concern because that’s what the Democratic Party groups and the party itself do when Republicans are in power. They use these issues for their own ends.
It’s interesting, and I know that you’re aware of this, that the Women’s March was not a march against US militarism. Among the so-called progressive Democratic Party candidates running in this year’s midterms, I haven’t seen anybody who has a strong antimilitarist platform. So there is a possibility that some of these Democratic Party groups will try to latch onto this effort and use it for their own purposes, but all the people and groups organizing this are opposed to the corporate duopoly war party.
I think it’s important for us to make it clear that the United States has a long history of militarism, and that it has been escalating under recent presidents. Obama was worse than Bush. Trump is trying to outdo Obama. It’s not a matter of who’s in the White House or which party has the majority in Congress. It’s that the United States is the largest empire in the world, and we have a very strong military machine that demands to be fed constantly. So even if some of those Democratic Party members sign on, they may be adding numbers, but hopefully not diluting the message.
AG: A Women’s March on the Pentagon, which is not a reaction to Trump but to war and militarism, is scheduled for October 20-21, the 51st anniversary of the 1967 March on the Pentagon organized by the National Mobilization to End the Vietnam War. Will you be joining or supporting that march as well?
MF: We’re very excited about the Women’s March on the Pentagon. I think, like you, I refrained from participating in the previous Women’s Marches because they were organized by people who were part of the power structure. It’s been interesting to see what’s going on with that because people at the grassroots level didn’t seem to be altogether on board with those who were leading those marches. But, again, there was no strong antimilitarism component to those marches. So we were very excited when Cindy Sheehan announced her Women’s March on the Pentagon. I felt like, “Wow, now here’s a Women’s March I’ll actually feel comfortable participating in,” so Popular Resistance was one of the early organizations to sign on to that. We’ve been promoting it on our website, and I will be there, and we’ll be supporting it in any way we can.
AG: Assuming Trump’s parade goes forward, there will no doubt be a tremendous amount of international media coverage, and the optics will be grim for much of the world if there’s no visible resistance. Will you be working on a media strategy with that in mind?
MF: That’s one of the main reasons we felt so compelled to organize around Trump’s military parade. People around the world keep asking us, “Where is the antiwar movement in the United States? You guys are the aggressors, so why aren’t you doing anything about what your country is doing all around the world?” So having this kind of energy around this military parade—this gross display and glorification of militarism—is an opportunity for us in the United States to show the world that there is opposition to US empire and wars of aggression, including these so-called humanitarian interventions that so many progressives are supporting. And, in addition to having protests in Washington DC, we’re reaching out to our international allies around the world and asking them to hold actions on that day as well. And of course there’s a lot of international media in DC, and when we do actions on various issues, we tend to get more coverage from the international media than from the US media. So we will definitely be reaching out to them.
AG: Do you think a countermarch will be allowed to get anywhere near the Pentagon parade, and have you considered that this might be a dangerous protest?
MF: The benefit of having coalition partners who are actually based in Washington DC is that they can apply for permits as soon as the need arises, and permits are handed out on a first come, first serve basis there. As soon as President Trump put out the message that he might have a military parade on Veterans Day, organizations that we work with quickly applied for permits in as many areas as they could think of where such a parade might happen. So we will have permits to be close to the parade, and we even applied for them before any groups that may come to support it.
As to whether it might be dangerous: the police in DC are fairly used to dealing with protest, and most of the them understand our First Amendment right to freedom of expression. That’s not always the case; the police were very aggressive around Trump’s inauguration, but I think they may regret that. The public is very largely with us, and a lot of people in the military oppose this gross display of militarization, this waste of money and time, as well. If there’s a large turnout, that’s protective. The police will be a lot less likely to misbehave if there are a lot of people around.
AG: The peace movement all but completely faded from view during Obama’s eight years in office, despite new US Wars in Libya and Syria, escalation of the US War in Afghanistan, and the expansion of US bases and militarism across the African continent. If the peace movement re-emerges under Trump, do you think it could survive the election of another Democratic Party president?
MF: It was difficult to see the antiwar movement all but disappear while Obama was president. Of course we were out there protesting anyway, and when we helped organize the occupation of Freedom Plaza in 2011, it included a very strong antiwar component. It was disappointing to see antiwar protestors get confused by a Democratic president who was such a militarist. So we just have to keep working at reviving and growing the antiwar movement here, and try to demonstrate that this goes across political parties, that both Democrats and Republicans are funded and lobbied by the weapons manufacturers and all the other elements of the military industrial complex. The 2018 military budget is $700 billion, and it just keeps growing. It now eats up 57% of our discretionary spending, leaving only 43% for education, transportation, housing, and all our other human needs.
We need to demonstrate that this makes us less secure as a nation by creating more animosity towards us around the world and isolating us in the global community. Other nations are finally getting more courage to stand up and say they don’t want to be bullied or controlled by us anymore. So this hurts every single person in the United States, as well as the masses of people suffering all the casualties and injuries and agony caused by US wars. No matter who’s in office, we have to push the United States to pull back our troops on foreign shores, close down our 800 or more military bases, and redirect our resources to human needs here at home and reparations for all the damage we’ve done around the world.
AG: How can listeners find more information and/or sign on to attend or engage in planning the November 11 countermarch?
MF: We just got a website up: No Trump Military Parade.
Ann Garrison is an independent journalist based in the San Francisco Bay Area. In 2014, she received the Victoire Ingabire Umuhoza Democracy and Peace Prize for her reporting on conflict in the African Great Lakes region. She can be reached at @AnnGarrison or [email protected].
Margaret Flowers is a medical doctor and a peace, justice, Green Party activist, and co-founder of the Popular Resistance website. She can be reached at popularresistance.org or [email protected].
BobH, I understand and agree with the position you articulated, with some points of clarification.
The appearance of “zio-nazi” placards is meant to be counter productive to the interests of peaceful protest.
“Zionazi” and similar incitements are used by Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist” and fake “anti-Jewish” / “anti-Semitic”) propaganda agents to discredit investigative journalism sites and movements opposed by Israel and the pro-Israel Lobby.
For example, over the past few years, a “Mulga Mumblebrain” has been waging a dedicated “Zionazi” rhetorical campaign in the comments sections on Truthdig, Washington’s Blog, the Saker, and Consortium News
See the CN comments at
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/09/18/fake-arguments-for-killing-iran-nuke-deal/
The inflammatory Hasbara rhetoric is to deceive, divert, distract, and distort substantive discussion of the Israel-related geopolitical issues with loud rants about “Zionazis” and “Jews”.
Predictably, when called out for their Hasbara activities, the provocateurs and trolls loudly complain that they are somehow being misjudged.
Let me clarify my own position here as i believe a lot has been misconstrued. The sticking point seems to be Israel and I was not suggesting that it not be mentioned but if we start seeing a lot of “zio-nazi’ placards I believe it would be counter productive to the interests of the protest. That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be placards with the amount of deaths in Gaza, for example, juxtaposed against the amount of aid to Israel; arms sales to Saudi Arabia juxtaposed against deaths in Yemen, expenditures on the Iraq War juxtaposed against the number of deaths, voting statistics of congressmen juxtaposed against contributions to their campaigns, the cost of drones juxtaposed against the number of civilian deaths in collateral damage; think tank contributions from foreign governments(and Aipac) etc. etc..My point being that people will make the connection much better if it’s put in $$$$s. And yes, I think individual effigies of those responsible for the warmongering detracts from the cause(everyone has a different candidate).
BobH, I understand and agree with the general position you articulated, with some very important points of clarification.
Understand that the appearance of “zio-nazi” placards and other incitements is meant to be counter productive to the interests of peaceful protest.
The “Zionazi” epithet used by Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist” and fake “anti-Jewish” / “anti-Semitic”) propaganda agents to discredit investigative journalism sites and movements opposed by Israel and the pro-Israel Lobby.
For example, over the past few years, a “Mulga Mumblebrain” has been waging a dedicated “Zionazi” rhetorical campaign in the comments sections on Truthdig, Washington’s Blog, the Saker, and Consortium News
See the CN comments at
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/09/18/fake-arguments-for-killing-iran-nuke-deal/
The inflammatory Hasbara rhetoric is used to deceive, divert, distract, and distort substantive fact-based discussion of Israel-related geopolitical issues with loud rants about “Zionazis” and “Jews”.
Predictably, when called out for their Hasbara activities, the provocateurs and trolls loudly complain that they are somehow being misjudged.
Though we haven’t seen any “Zionazi” Hasbara posts for a while, troll comments about the “Protocols” and other Inverted Hasbara propaganda garbage still shows up when Israel or the pro-Israel Lobby are discussed.
BobH, I understand and agree with the general position you articulated, with some very important points of clarification.
Understand that the appearance of “zio-nazi” placards and other incitements is meant to be counter productive to the interests of peaceful protest.
The “Zionazi” epithet used by Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist” and fake “anti-Jewish” / “anti-Semitic”) propaganda agents to discredit investigative journalism sites and movements opposed by Israel and the pro-Israel Lobby.
For example, over the past few years, a dedicated Hasbara “Zionazi” campaign has been waged by a certain troll in the comments sections on articles at Truthdig, Washington’s Blog, the Saker, and Consortium News
See the CN comments at
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/09/18/fake-arguments-for-killing-iran-nuke-deal/
The inflammatory Hasbara rhetoric is used to deceive, divert, distract, and distort substantive fact-based discussion of Israel-related geopolitical issues with loud rants about “Zionazis” and “Jews”.
Predictably, when called out for their Hasbara activities, the provocateurs and trolls loudly complain that they are somehow being misjudged.
Though we haven’t seen any “Zionazi” Hasbara posts for a while, troll comments about the “Protocols” and other Inverted Hasbara propaganda garbage still shows up when Israel or the pro-Israel Lobby are discussed.
BobH, I understand and agree with the general position you articulated. Nothing has been misconstrued, but some very important points of clarification have been necessary.
Understand that the appearance of “zio-nazi” placards and other incitements is meant to be counter productive to the interests of peaceful protest.
The “Zio-nazi” epithet used by Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist” and fake “anti-Jewish” / “anti-Semitic”) propaganda agents to discredit investigative journalism sites and movements opposed by Israel and the pro-Israel Lobby.
For example, over the past few years, a dedicated Inverted Hasbara “Zio-nazi” campaign has been waged by a certain troll in the comments sections on Truthdig, Washington’s Blog, the Saker, and Consortium News
See the CN comments at
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/09/18/fake-arguments-for-killing-iran-nuke-deal/
The inflammatory Hasbara rhetoric is used to deceive, divert, distract, and distort substantive fact-based discussion of Israel-related geopolitical issues with loud rabid rants about “Zio-nazis” and “Jews”.
Predictably, when called out for their Hasbara activities, the provocateurs and trolls loudly complain that they are somehow being misjudged.
Though we haven’t seen any “Zio-nazi” Hasbara posts here at CN for a while, troll comments about the “Protocols” and other Inverted Hasbara propaganda garbage still shows up when Israel or the pro-Israel Lobby are discussed.
Incidentally, efforts to co-opt any anti-war demonstration are likely to be made by DNC stalwarts who can be expected to be out there with effigies of Vladimir Putin as the propaganda thickens:
http://www.defenddemocracy.press/new-huge-anti-russian-provocation-ahead-of-russian-election/
Hi BobH-
Thanks for the link. I do take issue with your last sentence “And yes, I think individual effigies of those responsible for the warmongering detracts from the cause(everyone has a different candidate).” You seem to imply, perhaps mistakenly, that past office holders are responsible for the warmongering, when I think that they have been forced by the MIC and the Intel agencies to allow the war machine to continue to grow unabated. Those responsible are those who have given our past elected officials a “trip to the woodshed”, and I think it would be wonderful to have individual effigies of these bas**rds, and out them for all the world to see, hopefully as a prelude to prosecution.
What i was trying to express here is that popular villein effigies could detract from the actual anti-war effort and the demonstration could easily be co-opted by Russophobes or those that are simply anti-Trump(or whoever), but i suppose they would be unavoidable in a large demonstration. As far as past office holders that were “forced by the MIC and Intel agencies to allow the war machine to grow unabated” goes, they know who they are and what has happened. If there are effigies I would choose Deep State personalities e.g. John Brennen, James Clapper et al. and put them on a spook float and have another float for the MSM. depicting popular disseminators of disinformation e.g. Rachael Maddow, Sean Haggerty, Megan Kelly. In other words emphasize who’s behind all the wars instead of focusing on popular villains. I kind of doubt this is what the organizers have in mind, but it”s a wish list. As always, Skip, your input is much appreciated.
BobH, I understand and agree with the general position you articulated, with some very important points of clarification.
The appearance of “zio-nazi” placards and other incitements is deliberate and meant to be counter productive to the interests of peaceful protest.
(Note: a version of this comment is in moderation, so it may appear twice.)
Epithet used by Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist” and fake “anti-Jewish” / “anti-Semitic”) propaganda agents aim at discrediting investigative journalism sites, and peace movement activism, that is opposed by Israel and the pro-Israel Lobby.
For example, over the past few years, an Inverted Hasbara propagandist has been waging a dedicated rhetorical campaign in the comments sections on Truthdig, Washington’s Blog, the Saker, and Consortium News
See the CN comments at
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/09/18/fake-arguments-for-killing-iran-nuke-deal/
Inverted Hasbara propaganda rhetoric is used to deceive, divert, distract, and distort substantive fact-based discussion of Israel-related geopolitical issues, and political activism opposed by Israel, with loud inflammatory rants about “zio-nazis” and “Jews”.
Abe: I understand fully your admonitions about “inverted Hasbara” and don’t think it hasn’t been appreciated. It was not my aim to criticize the organizers of the demonstration who probably have good intentions. We here can only offer words of caution and encouragement.(my first response disappeared on entry).
Lois, …let me clarify my own position here as i believe a lot has been misconstrued. The sticking point seems to be Israel and I was not suggesting that it not be mentioned but if we start seeing a lot of “zio-nazi’ placards I believe it would be counter productive to the interests pf peace. That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be placards with the amount of deaths in Gaza, for example, juxtaposed against the amount of aid to Israeil
Macron is anti-war?His wishes to reunite the French?hahahaha.jeez.Rewards are coming.
I agree with commenters above that this march should be solely about militarism and the harm it does to the living world. There will be a lot of Dem bots that will want to make Trump the focus of the demonstration. That notion should be tamped down by the organizers from the get go. Allowing them to push their unhinged Trump is Putin’s puppet agenda onto an antiwar march would be counter productive by muddying the message and displaying their gob smacking hypocrisy considering these are the people who stopped opposing wars under Obama’s watch.
Even if that thins the ranks of people who show up, the message is what matters. War is the tool of Empire. It is unjustifiable and must be abolished.
These are dangerous times. You should, though, try to maintain a sense of humor. It is quite difficult, I know.
I can see the headlines now? “Russia & Putin to blame for meddling & interfering in America’s display of Military might? Russia to blame for the cancellation of the flyover by the F35 flying turkeys, if someone could actually get these high tech duds to fly? The MSM has reported that the glorious Leader, President Bonespur’s Trump, has lashed out at Russia for rallying & mobilising the mass’s to protest against this wonderful display of America’s endless warmongering Military might? And the proof is 3 x Russians attended the parade & 13 x mythical Russian agents took out cute cat videos & posted these on YouTube to negatively influence & sabotage the American people & rain on Trumps parade? But hey, get your news headlines in now, instead of in November?
KiwiAntz You are like a voice from the outside, how is it out there?
Your comment could get you to jump CNN and get a job straight on with Rachel at MSNBC. Your sarcasm is their news, or rather their infotainment. Joe
There is no joke. It isn’t funny. We are pitching for a fight with Russia. The United States of America is going headlong into a fight with Russia. Disinformation will not help avoid a conflict. Your Post KiwiAntz makes no sense to me so please explain it.
I think his post is called Sarcasm. Sometimes sarcasm has a grain of truth.
The point I was tying to make in my comment, was not meant to come across as sarcastic, but as a tongue in cheek, black comedy view of what may happen if US protesters managed to force the cancellation of this ill conceived parade that Trump has scheduled for Veteran’s Day 2018? And it is ill conceived, because Veterans Day is meant to honour soldiers who have lived & died in War & not to glorify the MIC or to serve the vanity of President Trump? As Russia & Putin is being blamed for just about everything that is going wrong in the World, my comment was a hypothetical Headlines scenario that the Fakestream Media might publish if the US public managed to stop this Military parade & who would be likely blamed for its cancellation (RUSSIA as the go to excuse?) I hope this clarifies my tongue in cheek comment & shouldn’t be taken as literal?
I considered it a well done mini-lampoon of the Fakestream media. Something like what you’d find in The Onion.
This is one of the reasons why it is important that we succeed in shining a light on the BS of RussiaGate. You are absolutely right that the shills in the MSM will try to pin the antiwar march on the “evil Ruskies”, just as they did the Black lives matter movement, the Occupy movement, third party candidates, Bernie’s campaign, and anything else that runs contrary to the MIC and Wall St.’s agenda.
Eliot Higgins and his fake “citizen investigative journalist” flunkies at the Atlantic Council’s Bellingcat have already used their Google time machine to “verify” that those lyin’ Russkies are behind the upcoming counter march.
The humour noir from KiwiAntz is quite accurate. Rachael Maddow is already practicing, busily fumbling with papers and furrowing her brow whilst reciting the pre-written headlines.
If Macron chooses to hold a parade signifying solidarity and unification in the midst of the recent terrorist attacks in France then that is a good thing and it signifies that the French Government is prepared to defend its citizens.
If Trump chooses to hold a parade for no other reason than to glorify himself then that is a bad reason for a parade.
It all depends on the reasons that government wants to glorify its intentions. It is all about the intentions and not about the parades. The parades coalesce a nation and purpose it. This can be for good reasons or bad reasons.
But the commander in chief seems to just like parades because they glorify the leader and Trump is feeling threatened so he is planning a vanity parade for himself. This is a very bad reason to have a military parade..
Such “bad” parades are conceived by the desires of vain rulers who seek to boost their popularity through force and not through connecting with the people through civil discourse.
Perhaps Trumps Twitter tool does not satisfy his desire to control the masses and so he is envisioning some old tools to accomplish that aim. I do not know. But the one thing I do know is that in America, military parades are used to celebrate the sacrifices of our armed forces and their ultimate sacrifice for our nation and never to glorify a civilian leader. This is just never done.
I do not know about you folks but I see rampant militarism in economic terms. Let me cite: “Famed two-time Congressional Medal of Honor Award winner Major General Butler when he said: “War is a racket… easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious… It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives….It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes….I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.” It is implausible to encapsulate better than this quotation the very essence of militarism. Indeed, war is a racket for the benefit of a few.
There is another troubling aspect about militarism here in the US: It is called corruption; For instance, I read recently on Project Censor annual report the following article by professor Mark Skidmore “ We have found $21 trillion in adjustments over that period. The biggest chunk is for the Army. We were able to find 13 of the 17 years and we found about $11.5 trillion just for the Army.” According to him, ” I tried to call and talk to the office of the Inspector General to talk to the people who helped generate these reports. I haven’t been successful, and I stopped trying when they disabled the links.” In other words, F..k You. Or put a bit differently “$21 trillion of unauthorized spending by US government discovered by economics professor” This reminds me a frank and honest statement made by then defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld admitting that the Pentagon was “missing” a mere 2.3 trillion (US$2,300,000,000,000!) in unaccounted for assets” I wonder where the money is?
jose – “I wonder where the money is.” Conveniently buried under 9/11 rubble.
I applaud this effort to counter Trump’s war-monger parade, but where was the anti-war Left when Barack Obama was snuggling up with the odious Saudis? And partnering with the “moderate” lunatic jihadists in Syria who behead kids?
Nobel Peace Prize Winner-in-Chief and pathological narcissist Barack Obama greased over $115 BILLION in weapons deals between the American Merchants of Death and the retrograde, autocratic, kleptocratic, head-chopping House of Saud.
Obama then sanctioned the Saudi led pulverization of Yemen which the Saudis extended into wide-spread starvation and a cholera epidemic that have killed thousands of non-combatants. And OBTW, when the Saudis needed to re-load after copious slaughter, Obama happily re-opened the Gun Store.
Unfortunately, this smells more like an anti-Trump initiative than an anti-America as Global Cop initiative. When the Democrats retake power and continue the bankrupt U.S. Hegemon model, I have a feeling these same anti-parade advocates will retreat back into the woodwork and restrict their activities to more ridiculous anti-Russia bashing in service to the Democrat Crony Elites.
Radical Pragmatist – I too applaud the march, but I agree with you that “this smells more like an anti-Trump initiative”.
Look at the tentative name, the “No Trump Military Parade”. If we scratched off the last two words and were just left with “No Trump”, I think the true motive of the march would be evident.
94% of Washington, D.C. voted for Hillary Clinton and they hate Trump. Most of them probably believe in Russiagate too, or that it’s okay to be surrounding Russia with bases because, like, they probably need to be surrounded, or something. They probably rushed out to buy the White Helmets documentary. Ukraine, Crimea, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Yemen…..rah, rah.
Very selective anger. Selectivity is politics.
I have to agree with you that a peace march shouldn’t be leveled necessarily at any one person, or maybe even a group of people. Don’t get me wrong a few effigies wearing famous politician face masks can be fun, but to make a peace march about anyone person, as especially we find in Trump, will change the narrative to be about Trump and not about war. Actually by making the Peace March stick out in a most definitive way would only make it easier for politicians to respond. Also by concentrating on the Peace narrative politicians and especially Trump will most certainly get the message. Although Trump being Trump will take it personal, and by his doing that you don’t need to attack him personally for he will respond by tweet in kind. Yes Peace March only. Joe
Rather than protest Trump’s military parade, maybe protest on October 7th, for that date was the day the U.S. went into Afghanistan under the official name of “Operation Enduring Freedom”. Although there are many other dates, and plenty of other wars, where honoring each wars beginning date would be a reminder to what war is really all about. Don’t make this just about Trump, you can aim comments at the White House, but don’t make this all about Trump, because Trump is a result and not a single cause of how America got to this place we now find ourselves in.
I don’t blame Trump, but just like Obama and all the presidents since JFK, any talk of peace or detente during the campaign goes by the wayside once they are in office. Trump, just like all those before him, has done a 180 on his campaign pledge to cut back on foreign interference and wars of aggression. That said, if you want the march to be big enough to be noticed and have impact, you have to have a “big tent” mentality, and that means including the “never Trumpers”, and those who fell asleep during the Obomber years; and the libertarians who have a different view of domestic policy, but agree with us about ending the wars. The important thing is to stop the wars.
Obama’s record over his eight years in office made him one of the most pro-Israeli American presidents since Harry S Truman. Obama gave considerably more money and lavished more arms on Israel than any of his predecessors.
Obama expanded U.S. aid to the most right-wing, jingoistic, overtly racist coalition government in Israel’s history.
Obama’s parting gift to Israel was a staggering military aid package of $38bn for the following 10 years, an increase from the current $3.1 to $3.8bn per annum. It was the largest military aid package from one country to another in history.
The apartheid regime in Israel remains addicted to occupation and annexation. In the face of almost universal condemnation, Israel continues to expand its illegal settlements on the West Bank. Now they have Trump’s blessing.
Obama furiously pounded nails into the coffins of Bush’s wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, then backed terrorist assaults on Libya and Syria, all unneccessary U.S. Wars for Israel.
But no-no-no, the pro-Israel Lobby and Hasbara propaganda trolls exclaim, don’t you dare ever mention putting the brakes on U.S. Wars for Israel.
Considering that the parade is on the centenary of the cessation of WW1, this ought to be turned into a monumental protest to war and militarism itself. Peace people need to flood the street of D.C. and the antiwar movement ends to be resurrected. We must end war or war will end us.
Although I think the idea of an anti-war march is a good one, placards attacking personalities (whether it’s Trump, Obama, McCain or Netanyahu) involved in the promotion of war would be counter-productive to any peace effort at this time. Instead, I would like to see placards indicating the number of deaths, both civilian and military, in each arena of conflict along with a number representing the cost to taxpayers. The budgetary cost is important because, let’s face it, those true believers in American exceptionalism won’t care unless it hits them in their own pocket. It’s important that it doesn’t become politicized in any way.
Yes outright attacking any entity especially the Israel lobby is suicide to the peace cause, your idea is a good one BobH.
Conventional Hasbara propaganda claims that it’s “suicide” for the U.S. and global peace movement to identify the connection between U.S. wars and Israel, the pro-Israel Lobby, and Israeli meddling in U.S. foreign policy.
Israel-Firster “personalities”, including Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, and both Republicans and Democrats in Congress, can be clearly identified as warmongering agents.
The peace movement can easily point out the costs to taxpayers and the number of deaths, both civilian and military, in U.S. wars for Israel, as well as the danger of Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis plans to launch new wars against Lebanon, Syria and Iran.
The greatest fear of Hasbara propagandists is of American and global citizens becoming “politicized” – engaged in democratic political action to stop U.S. wars for Israel. That’s what the current rage of media propaganda, including the “Russia-gate” imbroglio, is designed to subvert.
And that’s why team Hasbara keeps coming up with so many “good ideas” why the peace movement shouldn’t mention Israel.
Abe: I never said the peace movement shouldn’t mention Israel. But here we are talking about an anti war march. We all know that zionist manipulation is the crux of the matter. Nevertheless, I believe we only would exasperate dissidence if anti-zionism became part of the march. Sometimes people have to be left to connect the dots.
Bob one of the themes here on this comment board that we are always talking about is ‘America minding it’s own business’. So a peace march to protest America’s foreign entanglements would seem to be very highly appropriate. Later, if need be Americans can deal with the Netanyahu’s of Israel, that is unless Israel gets the message first from all the peace marching that occurred on Main St USA. Joe
“a peace march to protest America’s foreign entanglements would seem to be very highly appropriate.”…no argument here,Joe.. its a question of strategy.
Monty Python Peace Movement Interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGrvQ1c5khU
Media: Is your movement an… ‘opponent’… eh? Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Nudge nudge. Nudge nudge. Know what I mean? Say no more…know what I mean?
Peace Activist: I beg your pardon?
Media: Your movement… does it, er, does it ‘oppose’ – eh? eh? eh? Know what I mean, know what I mean? Nudge nudge. Say no more.
Peace Activist: Well, it sometimes opposes, yes.
Media: I bet it does. I bet it does. I bet it does. Know what I mean? Nudge nudge.
Peace Activist: I’m sorry, I don’t quite follow you.
Media: Follow me. Follow me. I like that. That’s good. A nod’s as good as a wink to a blind bat, eh?
Peace Activist: Are you trying to sell something?
Media: Selling, selling. Very good. Very good. Oh, wicked. Wicked. You’re wicked. Eh? Know what I mean. Know what I mean? Nudge nudge. Know what I mean? Nudge nudge. Nudge nudge. Say…no…more.
Peace Activist: But…
Media: Your movement is it, eh… is it opposed to ‘foreign entanglements’. Eh?
Peace Activist: It opposes foreign entanglements, yes!
Media: I bet it does, I bet it does!
“Later, if need be Americans can deal with the Netanyahu’s of Israel, that is unless Israel gets the message first…”
The world cannot simply wait for more unnecessary, destructive wars, Joe, until “Americans” finally recognize the “need” to “deal with” pro-Israel Lobby influence in American electoral politics and Israeli interference in U.S. foreign policy.
Americans have been heavily propagandized to prevent them from seeing the need for the U.S. stop militarily minding the business of Israel and it’s Saudi BFF.
Israel doesn’t give a damn about U.S. peace marches that don’t mention Israel. In fact, they love them precisely because they don’t matter.
But Israel definitely did get the message from the global BDS movement for boycott of Israel, disinvestment from Israel and international sanctions against Israel for its violations of international law.
Before the next (potentially nuclear) Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis war breaks out, it is time for a revitalized global peace movement to embrace and expand the success of the BDS movement.
It’s time for the peace movement to speak the facts about U.S. Wars for Israel.
Now it’s about much more than human rights and opposition to the Israeli apartheid regime.
Now it’s about a cabal of three outlaw states – Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United States – that threaten to unleash catastrophic “regime change” wars that can kill millions and engulf the planet with lethal radioactivity.
Americans bear unique responsibility due to the lavish U.S. military support for Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Americans need to get the message about Israel, and any effective peace movement has to speak the facts about U.S. Wars for Israel.
Israel and pro-Israel Lobby, their media allies, and the Hasbara army are doing everything in their power to prevent the message from reaching everyday Americans.
Abe what I’m saying is that a Peace Movement Protest would do well to focus on protesting America’s involvement in all these worldwide conflicts going all the way back to the Korean War until today. That single mindedness is important so that Americans may accept the responsibility for America, and America only.
Now if America does do that. That America comes to grips with itself to accept its ugly pass practices, and to change its warring ways accordingly, then this acceptance of the truth will most definitely lead to discovering Israel’s pass interferences. Certainly there is a lot of unknown history for most Americans to uncover about Israel, and this will be revealed, but first America must come to justice with itself.
I’m particularly curious to where Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is taking his country. It appears he is attempting to liberalize it, and I read where the CrownPrince is against the wall with his support of Israel over this Jerusalem capital to Israel issue. If that is so, I wonder to how long Saudi Arabia will remain allied to Israel.
But Abe getting back to a peace march and exposing Israel, although Israel’s influences should not be overlooked I just cannot come to see how by adding this to the peace march this move won’t be seen as anti-Semitic, as this racist charge could flip the whole focus of the protest.
It’s good you and I can discuss this. Joe
The peace movement strategy of focusing on America’s past injustices has achieved nothing.
Not one of America’s 21st century wars has been averted or even significantly restrained, in large part due to media war propaganda, but also because of the peace movement’s unwillingness to clearly state the reasons why the U.S. has engaged in these wars.
Since the War in Afghanistan (2001–present) positioned American military forces in South-Central Asia, the majority of 21st century wars involving the United States of America have been Wars for Israel and the Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis, both directly and indirectly aimed at Israel’s so-called “enemies”:
War in Afghanistan (2001–present)
Iraq War (2003–2011)
War in North-West Pakistan (2004–present)
American-led intervention in Libya (2011)
American-led intervention in Iraq (2014–2017)
American-led intervention in Syria (2014–present)
War in Yemen (2015–present)
American intervention in Libya (2015–present)
A peace movement that refuses to examine the economic and geo-strategic reasons for for U.S. Wars for Israel means addressing the pro-Israel Lobby and Israeli interference in U.S. foreign policy, directly and forcefully opposing the warmongers, and intelligently informing the public by all possible means.
The complete absence of this analysis and a dedicated effort by the U.S. and global peace movement to oppose U.S. Wars for Israel ensures that the Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis wars will continue to their logical cataclysmic terminus.
Yes just like Russia gate is becoming a joke each day to more and more people because of the insistence that it is meaningful without proof. It’s classic boy cried wolf stuff. Concentrating on no more war and no more support of it for other countries will eventually cause the ‘lobby’ to out itself by crying antisemite when they were never mentioned.
Or by all means take our resident Zioshephards advice and go take a peace movement to war and be crushed before you begin.
Yet another dire Hasbara prognostication: “a peace movement” that mentions Israel “crushed before you begin”.
Be afraid, be very afraid, breathlessly babbles comrade “Tannehouser”.
We’re all supposed to imagine that the warmongering pro-Israel Lobby will somehow magically “out itself” if the word Israel is never ever whispered by the peace movement.
Because even after 23 standing ovations from Congress, “people have to be left to connect the dots”
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/03/netanyahus-consisted-standing/
Hilarity ensues.
No Abe, I suggested that to attack it directly was suicide. I am in 100% agreement with BobH’s assessment. I even agree with you and your stance for the most part anyways. Abe most among us are not willing to do what you do, even in a (to most people) anonymous format. Even the mere mention of Israel will turn 85% of people away, unless of course you praise them then you might find someone to join your conversation, most will still look right through you and exit stage left. This is a real and legit fact and danger. This is a fact Abe.
Your insistence that the only way is to challenge the lobby and out it is making you look more and more like a Zioshephard.
I am beginingbto think what you do is designed to create hopelessness, apathy, passivity and finally acquiescence to the horrors created and maintained by the apartheid nation. You use mossad created infoload meme insertion methods to desensitize readers to the travesty that the apartheid regime is by data dumping negative information on the Ziostate under the guise of combating it. This method cultivates a negative self reinforcing feeling of apathy and hopelessness. You shepherd conversations here by attacking any who wish to think outside the narrow paradigm you insist upon, this only supports and solidifies a tacit acceptance of the status quo which benefits the apartheid nation. Any hint of questioning the validity of your dogma is met with stock inflammatory accusations of being a Hasbara troll, anti Semite etc…etc all pretty much stock mossad SOP for discussion nullification. You offer no solutions to the conundrum except to attack it which would be playing right into it’s hand. In short regardless as to if you are conscious of it you certainly seem to be a Zioshephard.
Hasbara: “Even the mere mention of Israel” is a big no-no, blah blah blah…
The latest “resistance is futile” Borg message from Hasbara troll “Tannenhouser” is a fact-free claim that a peace movement declaration of No More U.S. Wars for Israel somehow “would be playing right into it’s hand”.
Not content with the hackneyed “data dumping” and “no solutions” lines vomited up last December,
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/12/15/protecting-the-shaky-russia-gate-narrative/
comrade “Tannehouser” is back to nullify discussion of Israel with even bigger steaming piles of Hasbara propaganda bloviation.
Israeli-Saudi-U.S. “consciousness ops” or psychological warfare operations include an online army of paid and volunteer Hasbara propaganda trolls.
The Hasbara army online aims at suppressing any and all opposition to U.S. Wars for Israel.
Hasbara trolls take aim at investigative journalists and online commenters who present accurate information and fact-based analysis of Israeli government actions, the workings of the pro-Israel Lobby, and the Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis war efforts.
Comrade “Tannenhouser” merely insists that “negative information” – the facts about Israeli interference in U.S. foreign policy, the workings of the pro-Israel Lobby, and U.S. Wars for Israel – somehow reinforces “apathy” and “passivity” when the truth is precisely the opposite.
In fact, Hasbara propaganda attempts to deny, distract, divert, and distort the facts about U.S. Wars for Israel precisely because this information mobilizes people to act in opposition to Israeli-Saudi-U.S. war efforts.
The Hasbara claims of “Tannenhouser” are false on their face.
With yet another Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis war on the horizon, we can expect to be entertained with more Hasbara hilarity, including “real and legit” fake “facts” and cute li’l deliberately mis-spelled terms like “Zioshephard” (Feb 2018) and “Hasbera” (Dec 2017), from the likes of comrade “Tannenhouser” here.
Correction: “Tannenhouser” didn’t hack up “Zioshephard” [sic] until March 2018, obviously after months of struggling with the “negative self reinforcing feeling of apathy and hopelessness” induced by diabolical “infoload meme insertion methods”.
If we wait for the perfect idea to turn the US around, we will be paralyzed. In truth, no one knows what effort if any will be decisive to change things for the better. In some ways we are shooting in the dark, but at least we are shooting……..
Shooting in the dark is a great way to shoot oneself in the foot or the head.
It’s high time for the U.S. and global peace movement to turn the lights on and aim directly at the main opponents to peace: the Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis.
The peace movement has been utterly ineffective in opposing U.S. wars because it ignores the key lobby promoting U.S. “regime change” wars in the Middle East: the pro-Israel Lobby.
The expansion of “regime change” war to the borders of Russia has been a result of increased Russian engagement in the Middle East, and Russian opposition to the Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis terrorist military assault on Syria in particular.
May I also add that some lawmakers are now try to force Al Jazeera to register is a foreign agent, as RT and Sputnik had to do.
Coincidentally, Al Jazeera is coming out with an ‘undercover film’ on the US Israel Lobby.
It seems some lawmakers don’t have the internal awareness to understand the concept today, that to ban a film usually gives it more exposure which I’m sure is the opposite of what they desire. I don’t know anything about the films’ accuracy but I do find the title intriguing and the drive to make AL Jazzera register is just more crimping of the news pipe, any pipe not plumbing the msm talking points. I hope it’s a good and informative film and many will have chance to see it. So, keep shutting news not written in DC men and ladies so you can control the message, as horrible and full of lies as it is.
Also, for you Abe, I try not to talk about a personal situations unrelated to a thought or thoughts which add value to a thread , or a comment which adds some flavor or news which may be helpful. I’ll make an exception: in Dec I was the unfortunate receiver of a hit and run. My head must have hit the window hard, multiple times, for me get so far out in the weeds re: how you beat your drum. Your incessant drumbeat was hurting my head. In any case, I mentioned some things I would never mention in a public forum, so this is why I lacked coherency and focus, and our to and fro got further out in the weeds. I really had not intented it to carry so far off track. I guess I was down to 2 1/2 brain cells left after the crash, and that might be a generous estimation. In any case, I shouldn’t have been writing anything so, apologies for carrying on and getting more and more away from any of the points I had wanted to make. The car accident was not good. But I won’t add anything of worth debating Hasbara with you, as you are quite content to bring it up even when most others are thinking or mocking the values of a parade. But trudge on, and apologies to any readers as well who thought I was off the twig, or knew I was. I hope they just skimmed over the looney bits.
Carry on.
Sorry to here about your very unfortunate accident, Curious. Hit and run, definitely not good. Not sure what excuse we’ll hear for comrade “Tannenhouser”.
Hitting your head multiple times and being down to 2 1/2 brain cells would account for all your looney bits here
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/12/23/the-israel-gate-side-of-russia-gate/
Given how your symptoms keep on keeping on, Curious, you’re still pretty far off the twig.
We’ll just skim over the way you’re beating the exact same drum you were pounding on last December.
Hope you find your way out of all those weeds. Better avoid paraphrasing Sartre and B.F. Skinner until you reach some semblance of coherence. That could take quite a while.
Actually I can do it quite succinctly when just 3-4 cells re-align. There was some truth in my fog believe it or not, but that’s past . Presently, I feel that harping on a dogma, or a defined interpretation of a theory of discussion in the end really doesn’t help. It goes back to the “how many angels sit on the head of a pin argument for many intellectuals, and the semantics or the nomenclaclure do not solve the variables on the ground. Whether something is Hasbara or Calvinist doesn’t stop the Calvinists from killing their ‘pagans’, or “unbelievers” within their faith. The Jewish faith has harsh rules of marriage outside of the faith ( Trumps daughter is a good example) and the rules are tight and fixed. Ads in Israel have verboten even an ad with an Israeli and a Palestinian in an embrace, and it never made air. The dynamics are far above nomenclature and minuscule definitions. It has to get to a general discussion of ‘settlements’ ‘Kushners money in new settlements’ and the undeclared nukes, just for a start. Whether ones toe is dipped in Hasbara, or 30 other cults and flavors of the day, these definitions still do not stop the increasing spread of illegal settlements, illegal nukes, illegal poison gases, and illegal
power games for a geopolitical purpose. I submit to you you fall back on this distillation of a dogma or a theoretical position, but these positions have no momentum for real change, real viable change to stop Israel expansion. To me it no different than playing card games and smoking a big fat cigar, and distilling all content back to your tale of Hasbara.
It might be right, it might be intellectual, and it even may be correct, but it places you in a position, similar to some of those watching the bombimg in Gaza, of just sitting in a chair on a hill and admiring the bombs falling in Gaza from your safe perch, and let out a cheer if it’s white phosphorous, and God help us, Napalm.
I don’t see your reduction or synthesis to bring up Hasbara helps in any way to resolve the bloodshed and the conflict. If you can convince me that Hasbara will help this 16 yr old teen who is going on trial for slapping a Israeli soldier after her brother got a rubber bullet in the brain just before, the i may pay attention. Otherwise is is a distraction from a more positive agenda of reining in an intense Zio agenda.
A 4 brain cell comeback
But I will stop as I believe you are too dogmatic to see the big picture picture outside of the confines of your cave. Go on bragging people down into your cult and bash them as you will. I hope most people take it as a small grain of sand in a big desert. I think I tried to apologize and you just have snarky reply as you don’t know how to interact with the views of others. So, while I have 4cells left and hopefully a few more down the line, I’m calling it not worth pursuing. Cults come and go, and your cult, as far as I’ve seen has not solved one Israel issue. They just keep trucking along and your job is divert the crowd from the things Israel is really doing. I don’t think you are honerable I you reply’s. Tata for ever
ps. Listen to yourself “I wonder what excuse we”ll get from ’Tannenhauser’. As if he needs an excuse. So instead of sympathy and empathy, mu post was an excuse. Abe you are “ out there”
Ans I doubt you can return. Hostility is your creed and forgiveness, empathy and sympathy is a foreign cooncept to you. Now that I know my friends now know to simply ignore you tripe.
I take it back, don’t carry on as you are too fixated and your ears and eyes are closed.
Ciao
Lo and behold, our poor invalid “Curious” makes a spectacular comeback to full retard Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist”) propaganda incoherence.
Back in December 2017 and now in March 2018, hilarious Hasbara headbanger “Curious” keeps on muttering in triplicate about “dogma”.
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/12/23/the-israel-gate-side-of-russia-gate/
In fact, Israel and the pro-Israel Lobby use disinformation and propaganda to “defend Israel”.
Rejecting factually accurate information about Hasbara propaganda as mere “dogma”, our Inverted Hasbara troll army comrades “Curious” and “Tannehouser” both pretend that political propaganda has no consequence.
“Curious” and “Tannenhouser”, and their Hasbara troll army doppelgängers, use similar propaganda stock phrases and deceptive complaints whenever fact-based analysis of Israeli government misdeeds or pro-Israel Lobby influence is presented.
British journalist Asa Winstanley discusses Al Jazeera’s forthcoming investigation on the US Israel lobby
https://electronicintifada.net/content/whats-al-jazeeras-undercover-film-us-israel-lobby/23496
As repeatedly demonstrated by comrades “Tannenhouser” and “Curious” here, an Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist”) propaganda troll tactic is to mention some “Israel issue”, then promote the illusion that nothing can stop Israel’s actions.
The trolls typically use phrases such as “really doesn’t help” and “no solutions”.
In fact, there are practical, achievable solutions, and efforts like the BDS (boycott of Israel, disinvestment from Israel and international sanctions against Israel) global movement really do help stop Israel’s actions.
Israel and the pro-Israel Lobby are bitterly opposed to real solutions, and are busy waging an ever more desperate Hasbara propaganda campaign.
Recognizing and exposing both Conventional Hasbara (overtly pro-Israel / pro-Zionist) propaganda and Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist” and often fake “anti-Jewish” / “anti-Semitic”) propaganda is an essential part of the effort to Stop U.S. Wars for Israel.
That is why our Hasbara army trolls keep on loudly complaining about “dogma”.
Alert! Every country uses dogma and propaganda, and I hate to break this too as you are not in the loop. Your effort on most every comment section is but a distraction from the very bombs and bullets sent to Israel’s “enemies”. Your definitions are but a false narrative, using words instead of action. History is full of your distractions, and your desire to target anyone who doesn’t agree with your “Hasbara” is but an intellectual exercise in semantics.
Please stop targeting individuals with an opinion separate from yours and use whatever grey matter you have left to make Israel declare their nukes, and poison gases, and let the people,of Gaza fish in waters way short of an international line, and let Israel give Gaza their due taxes instead of holding them against the population, and get rid of the open air prison, and tell the world about the US President son-n-Law using his government position to add settlements to land stolen from the Palestinians.
This is only a start, as your semantic “Hasbara” only distracts from the issues at hand as if you are in a cubicle in a small university spouting intellectual bs. On top,of that you attack any and all who don’t walk your line in the shifting sand.
My suggestion is to give up the attacks, and find a common goal with the world community, and that also involves Israel’s nukes which are undeclared and secret, and the religious country doesn’t want to join the world community. They are Tom”special” for such trivia as this. You, pursuing an intellectual agenda around a one word agenda is wrong, false, and the destruction is now over the top. Please bring yourself back to the very intense and secrets of Israel which could lead to a very dynamic war. Their nukes could also be used for a false flag purpose which could end life on this planet, which is far more serious than your agenda driven words.
Please, re-group and help the world. Your distractions are inane, dated, and wrong.
Attacking people who don’t fell your views is passé and simple an anger streak for which you need counseling
.
Not content with a 4 brain cell “comeback”, our hilarious and now hysterical comrade “Curious” lurches into full retard Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist”) propaganda troll overdrive.
Loudly insisting that mention of Hasbara – Israeli disinformation and pro-Israel Lobby propaganda – is mere “semantics”, “Curious” spouts a whole laundry list of “Israel issues”.
Of course, our “Curious” Hasbara propaganda troll ignores basic reality:
Well known to readers of Consortium News, I constantly highlight fact-based investigative journalism and solid research on Israeli nuclear and chemical weapons, Israel’s long history of support for terrorism, illegal Israeli military occupation and settlement of Palestinian territory, Israeli meddling in American electoral politics, pro-Israel Lobby influence on U.S. foreign policy, the global movement to boycott, sanction and disinvest from Israel.
In addition, I regularly expose both the Conventional and Inverted Hasbara propaganda efforts used by the Israeli government and pro-Israel Lobby to distract from their warmongering and violations of international law.
Of course, our “Curious” Hasbara propaganda troll spins ever more desperately, now hysterically insisting that exposure of Hasbara is somehow “distraction”, “dated”, and “simple [sic] an anger streak”
Hilarity ensues.
“invalid says it all. You are not “poor invalid”, nor an addition to solving some very serious issues in the world, and Israel is one of the evils we all face. Do you actually realize how stupid you sound repeating the same tripe over and over again? Your intellectual self has superseded the practical and those who are more alert than you. You are no more than a person stuck in a maze, with the pretense of an argument. Do you actually think by repeating the same garbage over and over again it retains some level of validity? You and Goebbels have a bond I hate to say. when you solve some of the hate and the weapons, and the violence you may be an addition to society. As of now you peat and repeat the same tired thread of some tired dogma.
Of course Israel uses disinformation, as most every other country. Are you Rip Van Winkle and have just woken up out of a very deep slumber? you have a LOT to learn in these past years during you nap.
Try to help the world instead of dragging it down into your gutter of “Hasbara” and its idiosyncratic cave. Try to help the world, that’s all I have the advice for you. Till never again.
Once again, the US peace movement marches itself into a conceptual and practical cul-de-sac by avoiding the reality of US military actions in the Middle East: Wars for Israel.
For example, it does not matter if there’s a petition to Congress and the Defense Secretary calling for removal of all U.S. military aircraft from Syrian skies, if the United States continues to permit nuclear-armed Israel to fly its U.S.-made military aircraft over Syria with impunity.
The central issue of global peace today is the pro-Israel Lobby stranglehold on U.S. electoral politics, and Israeli interference in U.S. foreign policy.
Of course, analysis of U.S. defense posture is a complicated matter. But it’s not that complicated. What’s clear is there’s no military or geostrategic advantage to U.S. policy in the Middle East.
The operations of the Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis offer no benefits for the United States.
America’s natural regional partner in the Middle East is the Islamic Republic of Iran, a state which, for all its shortcomings, offers many more advantages for the U.S. than Saudi Arabia or Israel combined.
But the Israelis and Saudis are committed to defeat alliance or even normalization between the U.S. And Iran. Decades of propaganda scams, deadly warmongering, and ruthless political lobbying attest to this fact.
It is time for U.S. citizen peace activists to accurately identify and directly call out the pro-Israel warmongers in media and politics who have brought us these unnecessary wars, and who are now driving the world to the brink of catastrophic nuclear conflict.
Of course, there will be the usual accusations of “anti-Semitism”, and the Hasbara legions will go even more berserk.
But the fact remains, the U.S. peace movement is going nowhere if it refuses to take a decisive stand for truth and declare unequivocally:
No More U.S. Wars for Israel.
Good points Abe.
Alternatively it/they (peace movement) could just declare no more war or support of it. No need to turn peeps off the truth you speak by bringing Israel into it:)
What about the Samson option Abe? Kinda like trying to put the toothpaste back isn’t it, at this point?
Hasbara: “no need to turn peeps off” by mentioning Israeli warmongering or the pro-Israel Lobby interference in American foreign policy.
Abe. Just trying to avoid the as you say….”Of course, there will be the usual accusations of “anti-Semitism”, and the Hasbara legions will go even more berserk.”
The peace movement could avoid this log jam and still accomplish the goals. Not that I disagree with your sentiments at all, I agree 100% yet we both know the anti semite lable is thrown as freely as your incessant and in this case wrongful Hasbara charge isn’t it Abe?
The real question is how is the Samson option dealt with, as that’s the real conundrum to peace isn’t it Abe?
You won’t or don’t seem to want to cross that line for some reason tho, Hmmmmmm
Your statement that the “Samson option” is the “real conundrum to peace” has no factual basis. It is by no means “the real question” nor must it be “dealt with” in order to Stop U.S. Wars for Israel. Though the quotation marks below erroneously encapsulated the must be, that is clearly the gist of your fact-free sentiment.
Hasbara: “the Samson option”… “the Samson option”… “must be dealt with”
The phrase “Samson option” refers to Israel’s “mad dog” threat to use its nuclear weapons arsenal to inflict irreparable damage to the entire world.
The “Samson option” threat is invoked in Hasbara propaganda to suggest that opposition to Israel will result in disproportional, devastating retaliation.
The U.S. and global peace movements cease to be intimidated by such Hasbara rhetorical tactics.
Indeed, the decrepitude of the apartheid state of Israel is reflected in its “Samson complex”. The French-American historian Jacques Barzun described the phenomenon:
“The old system comes to what looks like a halt, during which all the familiar things seem empty or wrong. Despair, indifference, the obsession with cruelty and death, the Samson complex of wanting to bring down the whole edifice on one’s head and the heads of it retarded upholders – those passions seize the souls of the young generations and turn them into violent agents of change, or disabused skeptics and cynics. From both the activists and the negators come the new ideas and ideals which permit the march of civilization to continue. But it can also happen that not enough new ideas, no vitalizing hopes, emerge, and civilization falls apart in growing disorder, mounting frustration, and brainless destruction.”
The shaping of American foreign policy to service Israel’s “Samson complex” has reached its logical terminus – the brink of nuclear war.
Now global humanities remaining option left for survival, let alone peace and prosperity, is massive mobilization to end U.S. War for Israel.
Incessant Hasbara propaganda strives to prevent such mobilization, particularly within the peace movement in the United States.
Abe My words were ‘how’ not must be dealt with. Your reduction of the Sampson option to a Hasbara ploy while just previously admitting “The phrase “Samson option” refers to Israel’s “mad dog” threat to use its nuclear weapons arsenal to inflict irreparable damage to the entire world. ” is laughable in the extreme. One might…if not knowing better assume YOU were a Hasbara troll, or rather a Zioshepard as that phase is exactly what one would expect to come from an actual Israel firster. To claim “The U.S. and global peace movements cease to be intimidated by such Hasbara rhetorical tactics.” when the exact opposite is demonstrable to all who wish to see it, is again laughable. At each encounter you prove yourself to be the opposite of what you claim. Then further on you hammer MY point home with “Indeed, the decrepitude of the apartheid state of Israel is reflected in its “Samson complex”. The French-American historian Jacques Barzun described the phenomenon:
“The old system comes to what looks like a halt, during which all the familiar things seem empty or wrong. Despair, indifference, the obsession with cruelty and death, the Samson complex of wanting to bring down the whole edifice on one’s head and the heads of it retarded upholders – those passions seize the souls of the young generations and turn them into violent agents of change, or disabused skeptics and cynics. From both the activists and the negators come the new ideas and ideals which permit the march of civilization to continue. But it can also happen that not enough new ideas, no vitalizing hopes, emerge, and civilization falls apart in growing disorder, mounting frustration, and brainless destruction.”
The shaping of American foreign policy to service Israel’s “Samson complex” has reached its logical terminus – the brink of nuclear war. ”
So my dear Abe which is it? The Samson option is Hasbara bunk or its where we are now? You can’t have it both ways.
Though I’m sure you will try.
Again how is this implicit threat to the world to be dealt with? It is after all a strong motivator for an ‘Isreal firster” no?
Israel incessantly wants to have it both ways: Boastful of its invincibility while kvetching about its vulnerability and need for ever more lavish military assistance from the U.S.
References to the “Samson option” threat, the horrific Israeli nuclear genocide strategy devised to avert the purported “second Holocaust” of a conventional military defeat of Israel (by incinerating the Jewish populations of Moscow, Paris, London and Rome), are vomited up by Hasbara propagandists as a rhetorical ploy to divert discussion of Israeli military aggression, and to dissuade effective political opposition to U.S. Wars for Israel.
The “strong motivator” for the majority of those “Israel Firsters” leaping to their feet to applaud the right wing Israeli Prime Minister is their greed for more pro-Israel Lobby money, not their fear of the “Samson option” or their passion for Israeli apartheid.
Nevertheless, more Hasbara hilarity from comrade “Tannenhouser” will no doubt ensue.
For more Hasbara antics from comrade “Tannenhouser” see CN comments at
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/12/15/protecting-the-shaky-russia-gate-narrative/
This relationship, seeded in 1947 and prior, is a long, ensconced protection racket. It’s time for Israel should pay us. I feel so for the people of Yemen and Syria, not to mention Afghanistan and Iraq (and others). It’s difficult to imagine what they go through daily. It makes it excruciating to know that our country is causing all of it. At some point, the oligarchs decided to control all earth’s resources, and convinced the military who said “we’ll see to it”. North Atlantic Treaty Org. is cherry on top.
Considering that the Heads of State and Commanders-in-Chief of their respective Armed Forces (The Queen for the UK and the Governor-General for Canada) both wear impressive uniforms for appropriate parades of their forces, it would be equally appropriate for the Commander-in-Chief of the US forces to wear a uniform for his proposed parade. Colonel Gaddafi’s impressive piece of military tailoring might serve as a good example to emulate.
I wholeheartedly agree!!
Beyond the parade issue, I’ve long felt we could calm Trump down in general if we just let him wear some epaulettes.
I read one of Trump’s old military-school classmates, who is not a fan of his, acknowledge how well he wore his uniform. Trump is definitely much more into the military pageantry and display than actual war-making.
Kaiser Wilhelm’s big military job was picking out the military’s uniforms. I would rather see Trump in an imperial Roman Caesar Togo, but then who am I? Joe
As I’ve said before I was very active during the build up to Bush’s wars as were many others, then I watched it die and came to understand this was more about party affiliation then being anti-war. Not for all, but for too many, perhaps most. People that mobilized others to protest during the Bush/Cheney years were deadly silent during Obama’s presidency. It was infuriating to watch. Initially when I read this article I thought this is more to do with being anti-Trump then an honest anti-war protest, but as I a read further I can see that Ms. Flowers does not play along party lines. However, I’m sure that many will perceive this peace march as another attack on Trump, and there will be many who will march because they are more appalled by Trump then our militarism.
I had the same experience reading this piece as you did, Annie, with respect to Margaret Flowers’s bona fides.
But I hope she realizes it will take more than her own good intentions to keep the anti-parade protests from being merely part of the never ending Trump/anti-Trump circus: she and her colleagues will have to make real anti-war, anti-empire messages impossible to ignore, even at the risk of alienating the MSM and Dem establishment.
I agree, and to tell you the truth I wonder how the MSM will handle this. I know during the Bush years the marches, which were world wide, got MSM coverage in the beginning, but after a short time that faded away, and in my opinion the media became advocates for that war. Now there in a bind, they hate Trump, but soldiers and patriotism is something they can’t attack. I don’t think she will get much coverage, since we’ve become a country mobilized around war and have a media that is in complicity with it. Between Russia-gate, and the democrats and the so called left spewing so much hatred for Trump they’re pushing people more and more toward the right.
David & Annie we should prepare ourselves for the worst. Any march for peace during Trump’s military parade will be penned up and corralled, or the television cameras will show only will a certain few riotous peace advocates do (if they are really advocates for peace), as this kind of disrespect for our Presidents huge military honoring will be crushed immediately. I hope I got this all wrong, but like I said, think the worst and maybe the best will happen. Joe
I totally agree. Often there are plants in the crowd who suddenly cause violence. Like the alleged fake mourners at the rallies for the murdered school children the old saying it takes one to know one is appropriate for these folks. It’s way easier to recruit a hooligan to disrupt the peace march than one might imagine. Then the media focuses on that image (the money shot) and the headlines read “anarchists smash windows and torch vehicles as the police grapple with anti Trump rioters as peace march turns violent. There could be ten million peaceful protesters but the one image of a skinhead throwing a Molotov cocktail he may have been set up to throw will make the headliner.
After that Trump will come out on his bluebird express to attack the anti American criminals who tried to disrupt his patriotic parade and urge the police to round them up and lock them up.
Disrupting a national parade is a bad idea. Just let it happen and we will yawn and move on.
Your comment CitizenOne made me recall Trump’s response to NFL taking the knee. Boy did Trump ever change the narrative on that one…..wow. So you say this is what could happen with the Peace March viewed through the MSM filter. I agree. Joe
Excellent interview. Great to hear about these actions to expose and challenge US militarism.
I’m fine with having a Parade as long as they are honest about it … have apache helicopters, A10’s, flyovers, artillery pieces with phosphorus shells, or soldiers in full military gear, just like the civilians in Afghanistan / Iraq would see them. Just don’t pretend that they are like the warm friendly dough boys of WW1.
To really be honest about it, they should open fire on the spectators
David G. I was with you until this comment. Fire on the spectators, good grief. If you’re anti-war, you should be anti-violence in all it’s many forms.
You’ve convinced me. I no longer want the army to massacre people in D.C. this November.
How about if they just goose step?
You were kidding. Right?
Annie, I’ll make myself clear:
When I wrote, “To really be honest about it, they should open fire on the spectators”, I was replying and referring to Christian Chuba’s phrase: “I’m fine with having a Parade as long as they are honest about it …”.
I wasn’t saying, even facetiously, that I “honestly” wanted the military to fire on spectators, but rather that that would be an *honest* manifestation of military reality, as opposed to merely showing off the hardware.
Then when I said you had convinced me, yes, I was kidding, in an effort to (ahem) disarm any tension with a fellow commenter.
I forgot to mention the burn pits. The crescendo of the parade should be having the GI’s pile up tires, tents, empty ammo boxes, diesel containers, … and burn them across the street from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, to the wild cheers of the crowds.
Of course I am joking too but I am put off by how we are deluding ourselves. This isn’t ww1 or even ww2 where we have an infantry dominated army interacting w/locals. We have small forces making excursions, hit and run strikes and going back to base. So yeah, maybe I am a bit bitter. We are acting like we entered Paris when we did no such thing. We are living in a fantasy land.
The people of Yemen, Syria, and I strongly suspect Iraq / Afghanistan hate us.
A good alternative would be an act of street theater where you dress a bunch of people, especially women and children, as “zombie war dead” in blood soaked rags with burnt pieces of flesh falling off them, and march them in formation behind the soldiers in their nice clean uniforms. We could call it the “victims parade”, and include some great banners.
Annie, unfortunately they believe in military and violence. I do not believe in that , but hey, what are you going to do to combat (get the military terminology) that ideology?
What did they do against obama?Get serious.
Well, I feel better about the anti-Trump Parade campaign after reading this than I did before. Margaret Flowers ably makes the case for it here, and I appreciate that for her this is part of a consistent anti-militarist message that she has been working to advance all along.
But still, y’know … in real life isn’t this going to turn into just another personalized Trump tempest, submerging anti-war politics under the general disgust at having Evil Richie Rich as president?
It’s so easy to imagine ways the pro-war establishment could take over the media messaging – by, for example, making sure march supporters feel compelled to explain that despite opposing the parade they still really “support the troops”. And I wouldn’t put it past liberal MSNBC/NY Times types to use the occasion to ask why the military was tasked with a dumb parade when they could have been “doing something” in Syria.
Flowers and her colleagues have the right to play it as they see it, but how about just making their demonstration a demand to get the “U.S. Out of Syria!”, and if nobody shows up, fine, at least we know where we stand.
As for the parade itself, the words of H.P. Lovecraft come to mind:
“Ultimate Chaos, at whose center sprawls the blind idiot god [Donald J.] Azathoth, Lord of All Things, encircled by his flopping horde of mindless and amorphous dancers, and lulled by the thin monotonous piping of a demonic flute held in nameless paws.”