Israel is well-known for having a potent U.S. lobby that not only influences Congress and the mainstream media but intimidates Americans who dare criticize its policies toward the Palestinians, as Dennis J Bernstein describes.
By Dennis J Bernstein
There are very few journalist in the U.S. or Europe who have the courage to report fairly on Israel’s seemingly endless illegal occupation of Palestinian lands. Personally, as a Jewish-American, and the grandson of a revered Rabbi, I have been roundly denounced by pro-Israeli representatives and their Zionist lobbyists in the U.S.
Palestinian boys prepare to welcome Women’s Boat to Gaza, which was intercepted by the Israeli naval blockade on Oct. 5, 2016.
I’ve stopped counting the number of vicious personal attacks that have labeled me a self-hating Jewish anti-Semite. Here’s one that got my attention and the attention of journalist Robert Fisk of the Independent of London, who I introduced one night for a lecture in Berkeley, California, and who then wrote an article about the plight of Jewish journalists and activists in the U.S. who dare to write or speak honestly about Israel’s brutal and illegal occupation of the Palestinians:
“You mother-fucking-asshole-self-hating Jewish piece of shit. Hitler killed the wrong Jews. He should have killed your parents, so a piece of Jewish shit like you would not have been born. God willing, Arab terrorists will cut you to pieces Daniel Pearl-style, AMEN!!!” The latter reference to the late Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, who was kidnapped and decapitated in Pakistan.
And at another level, the Israeli consulate in San Francisco has complained to my managers at KPFA/ Pacifica Radio repeatedly about my “pro-Palestinian terrorist” and “anti-semitic” reporting, and my apparent “hatred” for the Jewish State.
Emmy award-winning filmmaker and investigative reporter John Pilger is one of the rare exceptions who has plowed head-first into this crucial story of our time. Pilger has made two documentaries 25 years apart about Palestine, with almost the same name, Palestine is the Issue and then Palestine is Still the Issue.
I spoke recently with Pilger about Palestine and the brutality of the continuing occupation, and also about the responsibility for empowering and sustaining the occupation that falls at the feet of the Western press, based on its misreporting and, in some cases, not reporting at all the brutal realities of Israel’s iron-fisted occupation of Palestinians, which many critics, as well as several UN officials, have labeled as a form of ethnic cleansing that borders on genocide.
I also spoke with Pilger about the recent G-20 meetings in Germany, where President Trump held his first meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin amid the Russia-gate frenzy. John Pilger’s latest film is The Coming War on China. He recently gave a moving talk at the Palestine Expo in London on the ongoing battle for the liberation of Palestine, excerpts of which have been published by Consortiumnews.
Dennis Bernstein: Let’s start with some current events. We just had the G20 meeting in Europe with a big deal made about the meeting between Trump and Putin and a lot of action in the streets. Your thoughts on what happened there and some of the goings-on?
John Pilger: I think it was very interesting on two levels. First of all, it was a clear demonstration of the continuing rebellion against remote governments, governments often justifiably referred to as oligarchic. The number of people in the streets of Hamburg accurately represented that rebellion.
The interesting thing about the G20 itself was that Germany clearly set out to determine the agenda. Merkel wanted to put her country forward as the undisputed leader now of Europe. Some would say it has been for quite a while and with Britain on the way out the opportunity does exist. But that didn’t happen.
President Trump discusses his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin at G-20 summit in Hamburg, Germany, on July 7, 2017. (Screenshot from Whitehouse.gov)
The discussion was appropriated by the meeting between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. Putting aside all the grotesque, cartoon qualities of Trump, the one thing that he has been consistent about is doing some deal with Russia. This has gotten him in a lot of trouble because the Democratic Party and, in fact most of the beltway institutions in Washington, don’t want this to happen. They would like Russia to remain a perennial enemy.
Without Moscow there as the demon, it is very difficult to justify a lot of the infrastructure of power in the United States, particularly the massive armament and military industries. Trump openly challenged this, virtually from the beginning. Although he seemed to have to prove himself to the pillars of power in Washington by firing missiles at Syria, this element in his presidency has remained pretty much constant.
This was of course the first meeting between Trump and Putin. They spoke for two hours and twenty minutes and, by all accounts, some kind of rapport was developed. In previous times that would be good news. It used to be called “detente.” These days this is not good news, either in the US political establishment and corporate media or, to a large degree, here in Britain.
The ridiculous allegations that the Russians helped to elect Trump by directly interfering in the great American democratic process have converged with the news that Trump and Putin may well have struck some kind of deal. Whether Trump is allowed to pursue whatever arrangements he has made toward normalizing relations with Russia, given the institutions of power in the United States, is rather doubtful.
DB: Of course, the corporate press is not at all interested in detente in Syria. Their main story ever since Trump’s meeting with Putin has been that his son may be guilty of treason.
JP: I’ve never heard something so absurd in my life, especially as the United States has intervened so aggressively in post-Soviet Russia. All through the 1990’s the open and quite successful intervention was blatant. And for these powerful forces in the United States to obsess with Russian meddling in our election process demonstrates a kind of double standard that is difficult to comprehend.
DB: In light of your new film, The Coming War on China, this is a time when detente at all levels is crucial because the dangers of staying the course are so huge. It is interesting to see that right-wing hawks in Washington are helping to foster a new relationship between Russia and China. But detente is the only answer at this point, isn’t it?
JP: Yes, it is. What’s needed is a diplomatic settlement. Unfortunately, the United States doesn’t do that anymore. It doesn’t have “diplomats” in the real sense of the word. To now see the presidents of two of the major nuclear-armed powers in the world seemingly forging some kind of political arrangement–agreeing, apparently, that they shouldn’t go to war with nuclear weapons. This is a throwback to a time before George W. Bush abolished the START treaties and others that were put together so painstakingly over so many years between the Soviet Union and the United States. It demonstrates how far the world–at the level of its political elite–has regressed. The United States is a very frightening vision for most of us because nuclear weapons are in the background all the time. The chance of a mistaken launch of nuclear weapons is high.
Consider the case of Korea, where the United States has installed its very aggressive THAAD so-called “defense” system which threatens China. No one believes for a minute that these missiles are pointed at North Korea, which could be dealt with in many other ways by the United States. The long-term strategy of an ascendant Pentagon is the balkanization of the Russian Federation and the intimidation of China. And if there is any glint of some kind of pullback from that position, as there might have been in the meeting between Trump and Putin, then that is good news.
DB: And of course it is so bizarre that you have America talking about the role that China should be playing and how we are so disappointed that they are not doing all they can to facilitate THAAD, which is part of a strategy to surround their country in what we know is shaping up to be “the Chinese century.”
John, I’d like you to talk about how you first began to report on Palestine and then I’d like to fast forward to current issues.
JP: I first went to Palestine in the 1960’s and stayed on a kibbutz. I probably came with the popular assumption that Israel’s myths about itself were true, that Israel was a good idea. I conflated the horror of the Holocaust with the new Jewish state. The people on the kibbutz regarded themselves as both socialists and Zionists.
I came to understand the doublespeak or the contemporary amnesia that is so pervasive in Israel. We had some very lively discussions but rarely mentioned the majority people. I saw them one evening and they were referred to as “them,” as silhouettes beyond the limits of the kibbutz. I asked about them and was told, well, they’re the Arabs. One man called them nomads. By just asking the question I was crossing a line, and a disturbed silence followed. I was with good people on the kibbutz, they had principles, many had memories of the horrors in Europe. They knew, of course, that they were on stolen land.
The word “Palestinian” was almost never used, rather echoing Golda Meir’s later remark that “there’s no such thing as Palestinians.” Because once the term “Palestinian” was recognized, the state of Palestine had to be recognized. For me it was a very interesting introduction to the extraordinary situation in Palestine. I learned a lot from a wonderful photographer named Dan Hidani who lost all his family in Germany during the War. We talked out this subject of the so-called Arabs and I learned a lot from him about the guilt of the colonizers that can never quite be covered up. These early experiences really alerted me to the huge injustice the Palestinians were suffering and of course still suffer today.
DB: Could I ask you to tell the story of the novelist Liana Badr, because it really does speak to what has happened to many Palestinians and the way they have been treated?
Israel Defense Force soldiers patrolling Nablus during the Second Intifada in 2002. (Photo credit: Israel Defense Forces)
JP: In 2002, when Ariel Sharon was prime minister and several times sent the Israeli army and tanks into the West Bank, I arrived in Ramallah just when the Israeli army was withdrawing. Ramallah was devastated and one of the places I visited was the Palestinian Cultural Center. There I met the center’s director, the renowned Palestinian novelist Liana Badr, who teaches at Columbia University now. Her manuscripts were torn and scattered across the floor. The hard drive containing her fiction and a whole library of plays and poetry had been stolen by the Israeli soldiers. Not a single book had survived. Master tapes of one of the best collections of Palestinian cinema were lost.
This was an assault on a people’s culture. The soldiers had urinated and defecated on the floors and on the desks and smeared feces on children’s paintings. It was the most vivid and telling symbol of what a colonial power does to the people whose country it occupies.
It was an attempt to dehumanize, that is what this assault on the Palestinian Cultural Center represented. What struck me, as well, was the determination of the Palestinians in this situation not to comply with what was expected of them as victims. That is the most astonishing thing about the Palestinians. As you walk through the rubble of Gaza, where the Israelis have attacked so many times, all of a sudden you see in the distance a group of school girls beautifully turned out in their starched and pressed uniforms and their hair done. It is a vision of defiance and determination to keep going. So the occupation may have worked physically but it hasn’t worked spiritually. And perhaps in the near future it may not work politically.
Jaffa oranges are famous around the world. Actually, Jaffa is a Palestinian town taken by Israel. Jaffa oranges form part of the mythical history of modern Israel, the idea that the desert of Palestine would be made green by the arriving Jews, who would make the desert bloom. But the oranges and grapes were in fact grown by Palestinian farmers and the oranges had been exported to Europe since the eighteenth century. At one time, a rather melancholy name for the town of Jaffa used by its former inhabitants was “the place of sad oranges.”
DB: I want to talk to you about Palestine and journalism. Maybe we could compare and contrast Mohammed Omer, on the one hand–who is dodging bombs and trying to get food for his family as the drones are flying past his window, trying to get as best he can the truth from the ground–compare Mohammed Omer with the people at CNBC and the BBC.
JP: Well, we know that most of mainstream journalism is simply an extension of the state. We’ve talked about the extraordinary McCarthy-like propaganda campaign that wants to blame everything including the weather on Russia. That happens because the media is the propaganda wing of the institutions that form power in the West.
The one that produces the most refined propaganda is the BBC. CNN and the others are just cruder versions. Any truth about Israel/Palestine or, more generally, the Middle East is not going to come from the mainstream media. Those of us who know this should rather stop beating our heads against a brick wall, asking why they don’t tell the truth. That’s not what they’re there for.
An Israeli soldier prepares for a night attack inside Gaza as part of Operation Protective Edge, which killed more than 2,000 Gazans in 2014. (Israel Defense Forces photo)
Fortunately, there are now many independent sources, such as your program. You mentioned Mohammed Omer. We saw how brilliant and objective his reporting was from Gaza during the last terrible attack in 2014. His own family was under attack, they had very little food and water and so on, but every day he would produce these concise reports of no more than maybe 800 words, together with his photographs that would tell you what was happening as he witnessed it. It was about how people were still leading their lives in the most extraordinary ways, despite all the grief and suffering.
In other words, he did what the official media in the West rarely does: He put faces and names on people, he described their lives. He has collected those pieces together in a book. And there have been other journalists, particularly Palestinian photographers and camera people, who have done similar work. They make me proud to be a journalist.
DB: I only bring up the corporate journalists because they sustain these kinds of conditions by not reporting them or misreporting them.
JP: From my own point of view, I find it unwatchable, unless I am either monitoring it or deconstructing it. It is their censorship by omission, by distortion, by demonology. General Petraeus once said he spent most of his time with the media because that mattered more than trying to defeat the Taliban.
The good news is that a lot of people don’t believe it anymore. One of the elements in the rebellion rolling across Western societies is an anger with the media. This is certainly true in Britain. I’ve never known the media to be so popular a subject for debate. And it’s being discussed with a great deal of resentment. Reporters find themselves now having to account for their actions. That’s a new development.
Yesterday, The Guardian ran a rather defensive front-page article about journalists being called to account by the survivors of the terrible Grenfell Tower fire here in London. Well, that was emblematic of the media being called to account over a wide range of issues. People are becoming aware, they understand now. They’re no longer simply consumers of this sort of nonsense.
Certainly, the power of the media remains. But one of my favorite stories is that, on the night that Jeremy Corbyn almost won the election here, there was a party at the Times newspaper, which of course is run by Rupert Murdoch. When the first results came in and it became clear that Labor was doing so well, Murdoch stormed out. That was a very symbolic moment because it meant that his media and the media like his no longer had the power to ensure that certain politicians were elected. Two days before the election, The Daily Mail devoted thirteen pages to an attempted character assassination of Corbyn. It had no effect whatsoever.
DB: We just had on our show Arab Barghouti, the son of Mustafa Barghouti, who hasn’t touched his father for two years. Mustafa Barghouti has been in prison for fifteen years and just led a major hunger strike. Strong, articulate, he can’t be silenced. Or you mentioned Dr. Mona El-Farra, a medical director on the ground who had a good part of her extended family wiped out in 2014. She is still ministering to the people and telling the truth to anyone who will listen. It’s amazing.
JP: Yes, these are amazing people and it’s quite inspiring to be in their company. Even amidst all the carnage in the world, they make you feel good about being human.
DB: Why do you think Nelson Mandela said Palestine is the greatest moral issue of our time?
Photograph taken by an Israeli sniper of the head of a Palestinian boy in the cross-hairs of a rifle scope.
JP: There is a lot to criticize about Mandela but one of the things that was interesting and admirable about Mandela was that he was loyal to those who had supported and given solidarity to the people in South Africa struggling for their freedom. Certainly, right through his time in prison he always stressed the importance of that solidarity. In other words, of people standing together. It was a rather old-fashioned internationalist view of struggle.
He associated the struggle of the majority people of South Africa against the apartheid regime with the plight of the Palestinians who were struggling with their own form of apartheid. In the same way, Desmond Tutu has been to the West Bank and has been very outspoken in echoing what Mandela said. Tutu is on the record as saying that he regards the structures of apartheid in Israel/Palestine as in some respects even worse than those in South Africa.
I suppose Mandela considered Palestine the greatest moral issue because it was about a people wronged. The Palestinians were not the Germans, they didn’t do terrible things to the Jewish people. In fact, they had lived peacefully with the Jewish people for a very long time. They were the majority people in their country. Jews, Muslims, Christians lived together in peace, generally speaking, until the state of Israel was imposed on them.
As Mustafa Barghouti put it, “The Zionists wanted a state at the expense of the Palestinians.” That’s what Mandela meant. Palestine is a classic colonial injustice. [Israel] is the fourth largest military power in the world backed by the largest military power, the European Union and other Western countries, taking away the freedom and imposing oppression on the people of Palestine.
DB: And the idea of a free Palestinian people is one that is very troubling to the Arab world that is aligned with the United States. It seems nobody wants to think about the liberation of Palestine because then they have to think about their own corrupt and vicious dictatorships. Palestine really is the issue of war and peace. Whether there will ever be peace depends on whether these people will ever have a place to call their home again.
JP: Certainly, until the Palestinians have justice–in a way that they recognize it–there will be no peace in the region. In a sense, all roads of conflict in this troubled region lead back to Palestine. If the Palestine issue were resolved, that would mean that Israel would be a normal country. Not armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons and intimidating and oppressing the indigenous people, but a normal country living with equality within its own sphere. If that happened, if that were resolved, I’m not saying that peace would suddenly break out all over the Middle East, but it would be the beginning.
DB: Do you see the boycott/divestment movement as a hopeful light? Clearly, people who have supported it in the US, students and teachers, have suffered great repression. But do you see this as a viable movement? In some ways it is modeled on the South African anti-apartheid movement.
JP: All you have to do is look at the reaction in Israel. They are terrified of it. They have brought all kinds of pressure to bear on governments, particularly the British government, to stop the BDS movement having an influence. Just the other day, a court judgment found that local councils in Britain could indeed boycott, dis-invest and sanction whoever they please. The British government had told them they couldn’t. Well, they can.
The BDS movement really worries the Israeli regime because it’s popular. In Norway, the biggest trade union has endorsed it. Student bodies in the United States are going along with it. People have had their say and they have voted for it. It represents a kind of local democracy. It’s much more widespread in the United States than people realize and it certainly is across Europe.
BDS on its own is not going to bring about freedom for the Palestinians. In South Africa, the sanctions did undoubtedly have an effect. But White South Africa managed to get around the sanctions. It was when it lost a powerful friend, when the Reagan administration decided that South Africa was causing more trouble than it was worth and finally withdrew its support, that the system fell.
I’m afraid that that is the way power works. But there is no doubt that power is always influenced by popular movements such as BDS. Ultimately, I believe that the solution is in the United States. Without US backing in all its forms, Israel would have no choice but to become a normal country.
DB: It is interesting to see how strong the reaction has been to the boycott/divestment movement. Professors have lost their jobs, kids have been beaten up. Below the corporate media surface, it has really been reverberating out there in the grassroots.
Dennis J Bernstein is a host of “Flashpoints” on the Pacifica radio network and the author of Special Ed: Voices from a Hidden Classroom. You can access the audio archives at www.flashpoints.net.
This American writer of Jewish descent became a reporter in 2005 during my first of 8 trips to both sides of Israel’s Wall after meeting Mordechai Vanunu, Israel’s Nuclear whistle blower who had been ‘freed’ from 18 yrs. behind bars to 24/7 surveillance under draconian restrictions including he not speak to foreigners. Vanunu told me:
“President Kennedy tried to stop Israel from building atomic weapons. In 1963, he forced Prime Minister Ben Guirion to admit the Dimona was not a textile plant, as the sign outside proclaimed, but a nuclear plant. The Prime Minister said, ‘The nuclear reactor is only for peace.’ Kennedy insisted on an open internal inspection. He wrote letters demanding that Ben Guirion open up the Dimona for inspection.
“When Johnson became president, he made an agreement with Israel that two senators would come every year to inspect. Before the senators would visit, the Israelis would build a wall to block the underground elevators and stairways. From 1963 to ’69, the senators came, but they never knew about the wall that hid the rest of the Dimona from them. Nixon stopped the inspections and agreed to ignore the situation. As a result, Israel increased production. In 1986, there were over two hundred bombs. Today, they may have enough plutonium for ten bombs a year.”
UNCENSORED “30 Minutes with Vanunu”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwdz6dLbfok&t=8s
Importent to have both Bernstian and Pilgjer telling the reality so succinctly. My deepest thanks.
Congress May Make It A Felony To Publicly Disagree With The Government Of Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyB6phQJ6m4
It is shaming to have Jewish background.
No it isn’t. Children don’t get to choose their parents, their race or their ethnicity. They don’t choose where they are born, how they are raised, where they live or what they are taught. Jews are no better or worse than other people. The problem is too many people, including too many Jews, think they’re one or the other.
To further an earlier point I made about Israel getting US tax dollars, consider this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Israel
[Excerpt:]
Health care in Israel is universal and participation in a medical insurance plan is compulsory. All Israeli citizens are entitled to basic health care as a fundamental right. The Israeli healthcare system is based on the National Health Insurance Law of 1995, which mandates all citizens resident in the country to join one of four official health insurance organizations, known as Kupot Holim (???? ????? – “Sick Funds”) which are run as not-for-profit organizations and are prohibited by law from denying any Israeli citizen membership. Israelis can increase their medical coverage and improve their options by purchasing private health insurance.[1] In a survey of 48 countries in 2013, Israel’s health system was ranked fourth in the world in terms of efficiency, and in 2014 it ranked seventh out of 51.[2] In 2015, Israel was ranked sixth-healthiest country in the world by Bloomberg rankings[3] and ranked eighth in terms of life expectancy.
—
So, folks here in the US are deprived of health care in order to help fund Israel’s health care. Yes, the US’s funding of Israel’s military “activities” means that Israel can use that “savings” on military spending for health care.
And the GOP’s answer to this?!!
https://theysaythepenismightier.com/2017/07/21/fleece-the-american-public/
BUT… the US is subsidizing Israel’s health care. The GOP (and the HUGE numbers of Dems who support the anti-BDM movement) need to be confronted on this.
When was the last time anyone bashed Israel’s health care system (like they tend to do to any other country that does anything similar)?
Absolutely…point well taken.
You are far too gracious to Trump re Russia. It’s clear that he is intent on building his own commerical dynasty with Russian money. See The Daily Kos https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/18/1681726/-8th-man-in-Trump-Tower-conspiracy-reinforces-purpose-money-laundering-through-real-estate.
At our expense, he is happy to destroy the heritage of parks and conervation areas, and internationally the very air we breathe.
You also throw out the odd jibe at Nelson Mandela, perhaps because you think no one derserves the accolades he received. He wasn’t perfect, but he has given us Hope, or how to survive against terrible odds.
As for supporting Palestine. Thank you. I’ve lost many friends here is Westchester NY because I have been “too strong” in telling the communities here what is happening.
Lastly, I think change can come through the UN members stationed in the area, and the EU. What’s to stop a flotilla of UN ships docking in Gaza? Or the EU building an airstrip?
Charles, Putin has warts . Maybe even Nixonian warts but he also has the approval of the Russian People and that is not from polling. When he took over Russia respectable, beautiful Russian women were selling themselves for sex and mobsters were in control of local economies. It was like what happened in Argentina after they pegged their currency to the dollar and their economy crashed ( A crisis which is still paying dividends to US investors by the way . ) ONLY IT WAS WAY WORSE. . Russians remember this and they also see that even though some regions are lagging behind Russians are in an undeniably better position and Russia is resurgent . Putin has delivered for the Russian People. . When you want to quote Daily Kos as an information source on any topic you are pigeonholing yourself. DK has become ridiculous. Certainly Putin is not acting in American interests but he is obviously acting in Russian Interests and it is paying big time dividends for the Russian People and his choices will continue to benefit Russians after he decides to retire in a decade or so. Putin is not motivated by Greed but in a world wide economic system were energy trades are pegged to the US dollar money makes the world go around. HE is a major player and that takes major bucks. Just ask the Pope or Jerry Brown or Bibi Netanyahu. Think outside of your box or don’t if you like it there and it’s cozy.
Thanks for confirming that which I suspected was occurring – what has happened to the USA in its former kind and helpful manner towards victims of International Tyranny in outrageous, sad and downright dangerous. Since the 1960 when the US upped its interference in the illegal occupation of Vietnam, then Cambodia and Laos, we have seen a continuous stream of proxy wars mounted by our former friends. The USA has used all sorts of false rhetoric to cover up their scant legalities for these war crimes but the obvious answer is “who is benefiting by these actions. The Zionists, both in the USA and abroad are the clear suspects. I am not Jewish and I do understand there are thousands of decent Jews world-wide. I only hope that the decent Jews can somehow rally – even if it’s in secret – to organise a decent Jews versus Zionist movement that will join forces with the Palestinians and other victims of Zionist Israel and Zionist US Republicans A.S.A.P.
Of course there are many good and decent Jews, but the other type, who dominate their society and all Western polities, are a menace to all Jews and all goyim. Their behaviour confirms the worst stereotypes of Jewish control and insidious influence, only it is not at all hidden or surreptitious. It is out there, brazen and arrogant, a force for malevolent control truly unprecedented in history. Not the ordinary, decent Jews who live their lives like any others, or the Jewish exemplars in culture and science, but the abominable moneyed despots, like Adelson and hundreds of others, whose direct financial control of Western politics, and influence in the Western fakestream media, and in finance and the heights of administrative power, has surely never been seen before, and which is STILL growing, being insatiable.
Israel can still bully in the mainstream, but when the ADL went after a number of youtubers today they were propmtly told to go to hell, to the cheers of the internet. Gen X-Z are having none of it.
In the news…
”The president of France just said bashing Israel is anti-Semitism by a different name.”
”Jean-Luc Melenchon, France’s populist left-wing leader, blasted French President Emmanuel Macron for his admission that the Vichy government was indeed the French government during World War II, and that it – and not the Nazis – were responsible for deporting French Jews”
Macron did say that France not the Nazis were responsible for rounding up the Jews’.
I bet that pissed off the French.
Now, can we get France to take over paying Israel 3 billion a year so we can stop?
Macaroon was created as a political force by a cabal lead by a group of French Jews, including the execrable Bernard-Henry Levy, with one prominent goy for plausible deniability. He will do WHATEVER CRIF demands of him. Outlawing ANY criticism of Israel, a stupefying conceit, as ‘antisemitism’ is just the beginning of their Messianic ambitions.
JP has been a hero of mine for 40 years abd as usual this is meticulously researched. What he does not address on the Russia issue is State sponsored death squads and the murder of journalists who question the Kremlin.
O muh Russia. Humor right?
In other news, Trump ended Obamas program of supplying billions in arms to Terrorists in Syria. Obama is 10000 times worse. Bring the domestic criminals to justice and then we can worry about the Muh Russia bullshit.
Putin has entire death squads now does he?
Somewhere in El Salvador, Chile, Syria, Argentina, Indonesia, and so on and so on…
….rolling over in their graves.
A bit earlier I erred by “replying” to Jimbo’s post without entirely reading it and not yet seeing his second one at all.
Having now done so, I wonder what – as a self-proclaimed “American secular Jew” – he proposes as a solution.
Miranda, you beat me to it.
A bill concerning making BDS support a crime, is being put before the government in which the proposed punishments are:
“Anyone guilty of violating the prohibitions will face a minimum civil penalty of $250,000 and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison.”
https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/u-s-lawmakers-seek-to-criminally-outlaw-support-for-boycott-campaign-against-israel/
Yeah maybe but it’s unconstitutional although it would cost a lot of money and time to prove that to the legislature, especially with our Supreme Court. . Individual choices cannot be dictated by the government. A PAC has the right to act in politically motivated ways that make it easier and less costly to block this kind of harassment. The problem is , for want of a better term, “goy” lawmakers who would go along with Zionists in the Congress and of course Executive Branch policies. There are always Kushners and and Elliot Abramses within earshot of US Presidents. Worthy of note, Everyone kicking themselves including Poor Old Joe for him not running for President in 2016. Joe Biden, the Self Proclaimed , “Goy Zionist”. I did not make that up. He said it on TV.
This was my first thought….how one withholds or spends money (which I’m told is the same thing as speech) is an individual choice. But as with other relatively recent legislation or legislative proposals, obvious unconstitutionality doesn’t seem to even raise a whimper anymore. I know how lousy Congress is, but the really frightening thing you allude to is that we can’t even count on judicial review. What a sorry state of affairs it is that respect for basic tenets of the Constitution has sunk so low that such outlandishness can even see the light of day, let alone garner majority support!
Nothing from the mouth of “Come on America, we own the finish line” Biden is surprising anymore. After all, he’s almost articulate! Just like Barack.
https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/u-s-lawmakers-seek-to-criminally-outlaw-support-for-boycott-campaign-against-israel/
Darn, but I’m a really late arrival on this issue. A quote from the Intercept piece:
Israel obviously owns the US Congress – both houses – but in my opinion they’re playing with fire here.
It’s the water rights defenders in Central America.
Their leaders are murdered under Gov’t Authorization.
Global disrespect for humanity is Applied
Under Rule of Law Authority – falsely implemented.
With New World Order Guidelines initiated
Under Trump w/him as The Chief Regulator.
Cuomo, a “yankee lieutenant” bows before them/
It’s the water rights defenders in Central America.
Their leaders are murdered under gov’t authorization.
Global disrespect for humanity is Applied
Under Rule of Law Authority – falsely implemented.
With NWO Guidelines initiated Under Trump, where-
It’s the water rights defenders in Central America.
Their leaders are murdered under gov’t authorization.
Global disrespect for humanity is Applied
Under Rule of Law Authority – falsely implemented.
New World Order Guidelines initiated under Trump
Can only foster a 4th reich in the economic world
The world of capitalism/the Western Civilzation
Where plain folk get stepped upon/as pawns
Under Rules/ Rulers of “LAW” & ORDER
It’s the Police Dept. & the Legal System
that Towers Over justice/”Equal”Justice
What does that mean when immunity
Is applied in a System where Equal Justice,
Under the Law, ? ? ? only applies to the rich?
The problem with most of the endeavors of sincere and honest journalists, activists, and analysts when attempting to expose Israel’s crimes against Humanity while also trying to bring exposure of the Palestinian plight to the world is that it is a very limited strategy.
In this sense, people like John Pilger and the many others, along with many Jews and a number of Israelis, who are all attempting to bring justice to the Palestinians are all using basically “frontal” assaults to topple Israeli intransigence on this Issue. They are attacking the issue directly allowing Israelis, Zionists and their supporters to wield defenses that have been finely honed over many years to deflect such attacks. The result is that though BDS is gaining a bit of traction among other endeavors, the cost in resources and even emotional distress is very high as with any such frontal assault; and in this case we mean attacking the current issue head on.
This issue is being fought more or less as a political conflict, which to be sure it is to some extent. However, this situation is much more of a psychological war due to the nature of the opponent.
The opponent in this case is not a rational entity. It is comprised of sociopaths, who in popular, Hollywood culture and the mainstream media are always conflated with psychopaths, though there is a stark difference.
Where psychopaths can be born wired wrong or if not, be formed through terrible, isolated trauma, either of which circumstance will produce and adult or even a youth without the necessary limitations of a conscience, a sociopath is one who is formed as a result of group-based trauma (ie: family, cults, etc). Sociopaths, unlike psychopaths have a sense of a moral code, though it as aberrant one and exclusive to the group that defines it. For example, your stereo-typical US Neo-Nazis could be considered sociopaths where most business leaders would fall into the realm of psychopathology. This latter point has been successfully analyzed and categorized since the 1980s (see the excellent study on this subject by the two psychiatrists that developed the standard for screening out psychopaths, “Snakes in Suits”).
In either case, rational people cannot negotiate or approach such incurably, disordered people with rational reasoning, unless of course such reasoning is found to be in the best interests of such people being approached. This is why the movement seeking justice for Palestinians has had so much difficulty in gaining much satisfaction from their endeavors. And it will remain this way for quite some time.
Israel also continues to get major support from the other highly sociopathic political infrastructure on this planet, the United States for which US citizens have been forced to deal with for years and is now currently possibly at the breaking point for the entire nation. In the US as an example, this is why you see so many laws being worked on to criminalize support fro BDS by individuals and companies who want to do this.
Thus, to attack the Palestinian issue successfully, it has to be handled similarly to that of a conflict on a battlefield and there are many tactics that can be used successfully given the varying circumstances. The current tactics are just part of the spectrum of endeavors that can be used but are nonetheless quite limited in scope.
However, the most prominent and successful tactics in all of military history has been that of the “indirect approach”, a term of attacking an opponent at his weakest point or at his least considered attack, or both, which was coined by Royal Infantry Captain Liddel Hart. The first use of such an approach was found to have been used by Alexander the Great at his battle of Arbela in 323BC and instances of its successful and successive use throughout the history of conflict have been found and analyzed.
If we use the tactic of the “indirect approach” as a lens for which we can view the Palestinian issue from a different perspective, we will find not only do we have additional attack points on the opponent but these points are even more vulnerable than the ongoing crimes by Israel against the Palestinians.
From this perspective we have to provide additional strategies that target the various histories that all combined to provide Zionists with their excuses that they required a nation-state of their own. Considering that most western Jews had little interest in Zionism or its goals, Zionists had to work hard to convince them and for the most part utterly failed, at least until World War II came along.
In other words, activists, journalists and authors have to stop being unwilling to tackle the great memes of our time which all had their incubation in the fires of World War II and what led up to this conflict during the interwar years in the 1930s and earlier.
Targeting the current Palestinian plight today is singularly attacking the results of what began in 1917 between Zionist leadership and the British government. As a result you have to also review the history of Zionist incursions into Palestine that began in the late 19th century but became a serious issue in the 1920s and 1930s (see Alison Weir’s “Against Our Better Judgment”). As to this last item I also highly recommend Thomas Suarez’s recent publication, “State of Terror”, a book that is solely based upon primary sources (original writings of personnel who were on the scene and official documents created at the time) which details Zionist atrocities in Palestine from 1919 to 1952.
We also have to look at the three primary instigators of World War II, beginning with Poland after 1935 (after the death of Marshall Pilsudski) and its increasing political deprivations towards Germany and its own physical violence towards against Polish ethnic Germans living in Poland at the time, which culminated in the massacre of 5000 Germans living in Danzig.
We have to begin to expose the ruinous policies promoted by Lord Halifax and eventually Winston Churchill that were designed to get Poland to instigate a war between Poland and Germany, and then to subsequently demonize Germany and Adolph Hitler once the conflict began.
Additionally, the criminal deceit and unconstitutional measures taken by Roosevelt in the United States to support Britain, while provoking a conflict with Germany and then Japan must be promoted to the public as well. Luckily in this vein, this aspect is gaining a bit of traction as writers are just starting to unearth this massive maze of criminality by an American president who literally had no concept of what he was doing on the international stage.
We have to begin taking apart the narrative that both Adolph Hitler and the German nation somehow embodied evil incarnate slightly before and during the World War II conflict (in 1938 Adolph Hitler was made “man of the year” by Time magazine) who both were so demonized that no rational conversation can be currently had about the Third Reich while Bolshevism after 1917 along with the later Stalin are given a free passes to be ignored for the devastating crimes they both committed. The demonization of Germany and its National socialists was done for two distinct reasons; first, to distract the world from the war crimes of the Allies after the war concluded, which was done by the Allies themselves, and two, by the Zionists who began making claims of 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in some type of holocaust before a single, legitimate census had been performed only for the single purpose of gaining world sympathy for their plans to take Palestine, all based upon some flimsy letter by Lord Balfour in 1917.
These histories are the foundations of what precipitated the Palestinian Crises we have been witnessing for decades with little done to correct this terrible issue.
We also have to understand that the sociopathology that is increasingly becoming rampant in Israel and among Israel’s supporters is the same exact type of sociopathology that has been the foundation of US politics for many decades and practically since its inception is primarily the sociology that Israel modeled itself off of politically, though they needed little assistance with developing the nature of their ethnocentric state.
The revisiting of the histories noted and the endeavors to bring out current and new research to the public in order to change the political mindset that is mostly dependent on memes based upon falsehoods will most certainly get a reaction from Israelis and their supporters. However, that is exactly the type of reaction that is desired since these even more violent reactions will not only drive them into a state of apoplexy, their subsequent activities will bring an even greater understanding to the world of who these people really are. And they are not the saints of Leon Uris’ popular work, “Exodus”.
By attacking these foundations you begin to pull the pins out from underneath the entire edifice that Israel currently rests upon.
This is how the “indirect approach” works in this regard; by attacking these pillars that have combined to define a fantasy world of historical falsehood that is taken as the gospel by many people in the West.
As this article notes, people in the West are already slowly coming to these realizations but the current strategy of using only the “frontal assault” will never deliver the final results people are hoping for simply because it is too limited in scope. To succeed, such endeavors must work with a complex web of an entire spectrum of events that has produced the world we are increasing living in terror of today…
Steve Naidamast
Military Historian\Analyst
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr might disagree with you. People are dying NOW. The issue needs so much heat applied to it that people are forced to deal with it NOW.
John Pilger has a lot to say and Dennis Bernstein has interviewed him many times in the past. . You can tell that they both have opinions on this issue that are rooted in experience and that they both have been aware of what has been transpiring in Israel/Palestine for decades.. It’s called truth, if not wisdom. . It’s not “fact-based ” analysis like what you can read in the New York Times, The Washington Post or San Francisco Chronicle for that matter. This was a good interview to print on Consortium News. Thanks
A Rational Number (of deaths)
SUNDAY, JUN 5, 2016
NY Gov. Cuomo signs “unconstitutional, McCarthyite” pro-Israel exec. order punishing BDS boycott movement
Andrew Cuomo pushed through discriminatory policy to punish groups that boycott Israel for Palestinian human rights
BEN NORTON SKIP TO COMMENTS
TOPICS: ANDREW CUOMO, BDS, ISRAEL, NEW YORK, PALESTINE, POLITICS NEWS, NEWS
NY Gov. Cuomo signs “unconstitutional, McCarthyite” pro-Israel exec. order punishing BDS boycott movement
A Palestinian solidarity protest in Times Square, New York City on Oct. 18, 2015 (Credit: Ben Norton)
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed a pro-Israel executive order on Sunday that will punish people and groups who support a boycott of Israel on behalf of Palestinian human rights.
Legal experts have described this long pending anti-boycott policy as “21st-century McCarthyism,” warning it would effectively create a discriminatory “blacklist” of Palestinian human rights advocates who endorse boycotts like those organized in order to combat U.S.-backed apartheid in South Africa.
Prominent legal organizations including the Center for Constitutional Rights, National Lawyers Guild, the New York Civil Liberties Union and Palestine Legal say these politically motivated anti-boycott policies constitute an unconstitutional attack on the freedom of speech.
The New York legislature has unsuccessfully tried to push through anti-boycott legislation for months, amid intense pressure by pro-Israel lobby groups. Now it appears that Gov. Cuomo has decided to instead circumvent the legal process and implement the policy on his own.
“I am signing an Executive Order that says very clearly we are against the BDS movement,” Cuomo tweeted on Sunday.
“If you boycott Israel, New York will boycott you,” he added.
“We made a unity trip to Israel because they were under attack. Today, Israel is under attack on a different level,” he tweeted before.
Cuomo then announced that he would be marching in a pro-Israel parade in New York City.
After marching in the pro-Israel parade, Gov. Cuomo signed the executive order “in solidarity with Israel.”
I feel like I am living in a ‘dirty’ house….contaminated by cockroaches. My country is over run with treasonous and corrupt filth. I have to go take a shower.
Anti-BDS Legislation –
South Carolina’s state legislature passed legislation banning the state from …. state’s anti-BDS legislation on January 10, 2017, making Michigan the first state to …
Michigan Becomes 16th State to Officially Outlaw BDSThe Jewish
Jan 12, 2017 – 14 Tevet 5777 – January 12, 2017 … The Michigan State Legislature and Governor Rick Snyder officially made the State of Michigan the 16th state in the … The goal of the BDS campaign is the elimination of the State of Israel.
Kansas Votes to Ban BDS from State BusinessThe Jewish Press …
Jun 13, 2017 – Home Jewish Antisemitism Kansas Votes to Ban BDS from State Business … 19 Sivan 5777 – June 13, 2017 … Kansas State lawmakers voted 116 to 9 last week in the House and 36 to 3 in the Kansas State Senate last …
Will another US state pass anti-BDS legislation? – BDS THREAT …
/Another-US-state-votes-against-the-BDS-movement-494959
June 6, 2017 04:19 … Topeka on Friday passed by a vote of 28-9 an anti-BDS bill that outlaws the state from doing business with companies that boycott Israel.
As of May 2017, 19 states have enacted anti-BDS laws.
May 25, 2017 – May 25, 2017 1:12pm. (JTA) — The Nevada Assembly unanimously passed legislation that would ban state government entities from doing …
i24NEWS – Texas becomes 20th US state to pass anti-BDS legislation
a rational number;
Ayn Rand, the rational thinker (of an expression, equation, etc.)
‘containing no variable either in irreducible radical form
or raised to a fractional power’
6 (Maths) a rational number
(C14: from Latin rationalis, from ratio reason)
rational -adj
1 using reason or logic in thinking out a problem
2 in accordance with the principles of logic or reason; reasonable
3 of sound mind; sane; the patient seemed quite rational
4 endowed with the capacity to reason; capable of logical thought man is a rational being
5 (Maths)
a expressible as a ratio of two integers
http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-works/capitalism-the-unknown-ideal.html
Ayn Rand…the goddess of greed,,,are you serious?
A few points to add to the article:
1. NYS Governor Cuomo just signed “McCarthyite” bill against BDS
http://www.salon.com/2016/06/05/ny_gov_cuomo_signing_unconstitutional_mccarthyite_pro_israel_exec_order_punishing_bds_boycott_movement/
2. Its not just activists and journalists pro-BDS students/groups have come under pressure – including the taking of names of students so as to affect their future (that may have stopped after public outcry – or it may continue surreptitiously)
3. There seems to be a concerted effort to drive pro-BDS messages out of public consciousness. For example, search for “anti-BDS intimidation” and you get a lot of links that describe BDS as “anti-semetic” and “anti-Israel”. Do they think we don’t notice such BS?
4. No mention of the discovery of significant natural gas deposits off the coast of Israel/Gaza?
Disgusting Pro Russia and China propaganda! Once a comrade, always a comrade.
Mar-a-lago
http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-works/capitalism-the-unknown-ideal.html
Such a simple world you live in. How are things back in 1956?
{ Animal Farm back to the Manor Farm }
“drain the swamp” is derogatory right wing underground language with reference to Land Development
in the Deep South.
Mar-a-lago is the new Manor Farm, a doorway back to a kinder/gentler; that is, much/more Under Control
form of government?
Final paragraph from Orwell’s Animal Farm.
Years pass on Animal Farm, and the pigs become more and more like human beings—walking upright, carrying whips, and wearing clothes. Eventually, the seven principles of Animalism, known as the Seven Commandments and inscribed on the side of the barn, become reduced to a single principle reading “all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” Napoleon entertains a human farmer named Mr. Pilkington at a dinner and declares his intent to ally himself with the human farmers against the laboring classes of both the human and animal communities. He also changes the name of Animal Farm back to the Manor Farm, claiming that this title is the “correct” one. Looking in at the party of elites through the farmhouse window, the common animals can no longer tell which are the pigs and which are the human beings.
Is Trump / Pilkington an Interchangeable Part?
The three ‘major’ religions have hands covered
in blood. Islamist, Dominion-ist and Zionists.
What Saudi’s are doing to the people of Yemen,
the Israeli’s are duplicating in Gaza even as
the Christian-esk block of “The Civilized World”
Swims in and Swallows up the Profits of War.
Truth must be searched for, we must break the fallow ground (easy believe-ism and sloth )
{
Gaza on Verge of Collapse as Israel Sends 2.2M People “Back to Middle Ages” in Electricity Crisis
JULY 19, 2017
Raji Sourani
award-winning human rights lawyer and director of the
Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza.
Tareq Baconi
policy fellow at Al-Shabaka,
The Palestinian Policy Network.
“How Israel’s 10-Year Blockade Brought Gaza to the Brink of Collapse”
Israeli-imposed restrictions have limited electricity in Gaza to barely four hours a day, creating a humanitarian catastrophe for its 2 million residents. In 2012, the World Health Organization warned that Gaza would be uninhabitable by 2020. The U.N. now says the area has already become unlivable, with living conditions in Gaza deteriorating faster than expected. We go directly to Gaza to speak with Raji Sourani, an award-winning human rights lawyer and director of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza. We also speak with Tareq Baconi, author of the forthcoming book, “Hamas Contained: The Rise & Pacification of Palestinian Resistance.” He is a policy fellow at Al-Shabaka, The Palestinian Policy Network.
I am an American secular Jew and hearing harsh criticism of Israel is painful, especially when it is doled out by those who have no dog in the fight. And a fight it is with narratives, explanations and perspectives that differ from Pilger’s. I’d like to read in CN what an intellectual Israeli or other empath has to say, to humanize the Israeli side. Israelis are, after all, human, too, and not zio-nazis or whatever knee jerk insult some of you come up with. Christ, you’d think it was a nation of sadists. Yes, the policy toward the Palestinians is horrid but that wasn’t the plan. There was an ideal at one time but shit happened and now they have this horrible mess. No one wants this, no one, but this is what the Israelis are dealing with as best as they think they can. If occupying surrounding lands, creating thicker buffers (subsequently ghettoizing the Palestinians) is what they think they need to fend off future onslaughts then that is what they are doing. Maybe you don’t think they need these occupied lands but obviously they do. Imperfect and as cruel as they may be, these are human decisions made by actual human beings who feel they are fighting for their lives, their existence. It’s a wooly situation and many people suffer, especially Palestinians but this is what it is. There have been efforts to straighten the mess out but so far, what with bad policies from Israelis – and Palestinians, who are as imperfect a society as any – the reality is that the Israelis will not walk away from Israel. Thank you CN for this opportunity to get my perspective off my chest.
Is this a joke?
Jimbo,…the affinity of American Jews for Israel is understandable if it weren’t for the “horrid”treatment of the Palestinians and the overreach of the zionist lobby here in the U.S. and elsewhere where taxpayers are asked to support belligerent policies that support Israeli expansionism and are against their own interests. In fact, I believe such policies are against the interests of Israel itself since it rapidly has become a theocracy that spurns the pluralistic values of a true democracy. Obviously the wounds are deep and “the two state solution” is not an ideal, only a beginning point, but the alternative can only be an embarrassment to fair-minded Jews around the world. Thank you for the civil language of your input but i believe you need to rethink its premise. Israeli exceptionalism is no better than American exceptionalism.
Strategically and geographically there is a big difference between the US and Israel. The US is not in a damned if you do damned if you don’t position. Israel is. A two state solution won’t help the US. Many wars, occupations, give backs and take backs have shown Israelis if they give an inch they’ll take a mile – probably. If you look at a map and see Israel’s neighborhood you will see it’s not a good one. Of course if Israel had never been then this wouldn’t be happening, but Israel did happen. This is what “facts on the ground” mean. Israel is a fact. A two state solution would be great but you gotta know there is some guy arguing that we’d just have one more enemy on our border. And he could be right. Either way it’s a crap shoot. So, for most Israelis as long as there is still some semblance of modern life, a pretty comfy western-style society happening there, Israelis will opt to keep and protect what they have. I would guess their worst abuses against the Palestinians are kept from the public’s ken – or maybe that they have more facts and explanations than we do, like about the blackout described above. I don’t know. Pilger is pitching an ideal which is nice but unrealistic. I wish, of course, for peace in the region but I’d also like more civility, more open-mindedness from, well, everyone!
” if they give an inch they’ll take a mile”…it’s Israel that keeps on taking more territory and provocation has been their only policy toward the Palestinians as long as they can be assured of big brother America’s support.
Here is a link describing how the Jewish marched side by side peacefully with the Palestinians for a two state solution.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/05/28/523435/Palestine-Israel-Tel-Aviv
I don’t advocate either solution, because I’m not real sure what everyone in Israel/Palestine may want. I by my nature think that a democratic one government, representing each and every individual equally, would be the way to go. I would go so far as to say that if this were to happen that the existing Israeli government would be dissolved. I would also recommend a name change, and one that every citizen, or at least a majority of citizens, would agree upon would be ideal…then because it’s Israel/Palestine who knows what ideal is, but a name chain for sure.
In any case jimbo, your suggesting we try and understand the Israeli Jew doesn’t lend to how we should understand the Palestinian. If we were to judge with our emotions, and considering how badly the Zionist has treated the Palestinian people, then the Palestinian would win our sympathy vote hands down. You see jimbo, although we should avoid out and out racism with our debate, as long as the Jewish maintain their status on the high heights of the hill this criticism you so dislike jimbo, is all your going to continually get. Look at it, as part of what comes with retaining your turf…sorry it’s the price Zionist pay for what they have and haven’t done in regard to making life miserable, or even suitable, for the downtrodden Palestinian people….quit bulldozing down their homes when they go to work, quit restricting the Palestinians water, quit mowing the lawn every few years, and start being equal citizens with the Palestinians. Give the Palestinian something that Hitler never gave the Jew, and that’s respect.
You say “Israel’s neighborhood… is not a good one.” Is that because the Palestinians were simply born bad? Or because they were ticked off that some outsiders came in, stole their land, and killed their sons when they attempted to defend what was theirs? No one tried to keep Jewish settlers out of Palestine for many years under Ottoman rule. They co-existed fine with the native Muslims and Christians in the area. Then a bunch of Europeans and North Americans decided that all Jews everywhere should be given title to the entire neighborhood, which the beneficent gift givers did not possess, this to make up for the embarrassing behavior by our Germanic relatives. Germany was, in fact, carved up by the Allies after World War II. Poland was given a piece of the country for their trouble during the war, but the Jews were not. They were instead given a piece of the Middle East.
But, you are right. No one is going to wrench the land called Israel from the Israelis. No one (other than the Palestinians) wants to do so, no one has the capability. No one will even give the Palestinians any rights of true citizenship within the borders of Israel. In fact, the remaining fragments of pre-Israel Palestine continue to shrink every day as new settlers continually nibble away at Palestinian property, in spite of UN directives, American presidential remarks and even Israeli promises. All the Palestinians are left with is the latter-day Warsaw Ghetto called Gaza and a disappearing maze bounded by walls on the West Bank. No one in the greater world, including its Islamic brothers, are going to vanquish Israel and give back the Palestinians their land. The United States and Israel have gamed the system on the military front to preclude any such possibility in your lifetime, Jimbo, and probably for many generations to come.
So, what is a fair solution to this travesty? What is justice? Going on precedence, it is obviously to give the Palestinians someone else’s land. “Worked” once, right? They could be given a piece of that “universal fixer of all things,” the most generous and exceptional United States, maybe the state of Alabama, or New York City or Hollywood. Strict justice would say it really should be a hunk of Deutschland as this links back to the final solution. Maybe this is what Frau Merkel had in mind with her immigration policy. The problem is, she’s letting the wrong Arabs into Germany, though the Syrians are, once again, a people being victimized by Israel’s need for Lebensraum… und reines Wasser … und Öl … alle schönen Sachen im Leben. The least she could do would be to gift Bavaria to the Palestinians. They can learn to brew beer and wine, wear Lederhosen and yodel.
Realist-
“No one tried to keep Jewish settlers out of Palestine for many years under Ottoman rule. They co-existed fine with the native Muslims and Christians in the area. Then a bunch of Europeans and North Americans decided that all Jews everywhere should be given title to the entire neighborhood, which the beneficent gift givers did not possess, this to make up for the embarrassing behavior by our Germanic relatives.”
I have never heard a more succinct history of the formation of Israel. Bravo.
‘… They could be given a piece of that “universal fixer of all things,” the most generous and exceptional United States, maybe the state of Alabama, or New York City or Hollywood. “”>>>>>>
I wish they had been given a US state in 1948 as their promised land and done the same things to the state’s natives here they did in Palestine.
Then Zionism and a Jewish home land would have been the shortest footnote in the dust bin of history.
Joe T, Realist…all good points, including Realist’s facetious comments. It’s messy no matter how we look at it but I think the biggest threat to zionist ambitions will come from Europe where the demographics are rapidly changing. This however could bring new problems if the European countries don’t find a better way to assimilate(or keep out) the hoards of refugees.
I’m reposting this without the link, original hung up in moderation for last few hours;
I don’t advocate either solution, because I’m not real sure what everyone in Israel/Palestine may want. I by my nature think that a democratic one government, representing each and every individual equally, would be the way to go. I would go so far as to say that if this were to happen that the existing Israeli government would be dissolved. I would also recommend a name change, and one that every citizen, or at least a majority of citizens, would agree upon would be ideal…then again, because it’s Israel/Palestine who knows what ideal is, but a name change for sure.
In any case jimbo, your suggesting we try and understand the Israeli Jew doesn’t lend to how we should understand the Palestinian. If we were to judge with our emotions, and considering how badly the Zionist has treated the Palestinian people, then the Palestinian would win our sympathy vote hands down. You see jimbo, although we should avoid out and out racism with our debate, as long as the Jewish maintain their status on the high heights of the hill this criticism you so dislike jimbo, is all your going to continually get. Look at it, as part of what comes with retaining your turf…sorry it’s the price Zionist pay for what they have and haven’t done in regard to making life miserable, or even suitable, for the downtrodden Palestinian people….quit bulldozing down their homes when they go to work, quit restricting the Palestinians water, quit mowing the lawn every few years, and start being equal citizens with the Palestinians. Give the Palestinian something that Hitler never gave the Jew, and that’s respect.
If I were given the ultimate power, I would opt for your single state solution, Joe, wherein everyone is a citizen with equal rights and the vote. But that will never fly with the Israelis because the Arabs would outnumber the Jews and the country, whatever it is named, would cease to be a formal “Jewish” state. Also, at this point in time, the Palestinians might want some payback for the past 70 years of oppression.
The two state solution seems to be beyond reach any longer with the way the land has been dissected and the Palestinian population sequestered in tiny disconnected enclaves. So, really where does that leave the contestants other than to give the Palestinians someone else’s land?
The Jews have long proclaimed that the Palestinians should be given Jordan, and that Jordan is, in fact, the true Palestine. Though the Israelis fervently believe this, I’m not buying it. How then do the Jordanians receive justice? Or wherever we outsiders decide to deposit several million exogenous Muslim Arabs? Then there are the Kurds, spread about four different nations in the same general region without their own homeland. To say nothing of the Sunni/Shia conflict.
What a monstrous mess is the Middle East. Hate to say it, but perhaps the greatest eras of peace and stability were when the region was governed from outside by a world power–during Pax Romana or when the Persian Empire or the Ottomans reigned. Or maybe not. Maybe those were simply other forms of repression. Maybe anyone who lives there at any time in history carries a curse. I know there are those in Washington who would love the opportunity to rule (who think they already do) the entire region from afar, making Israel its viceroy or steward.
However, I think the Iranians gave America some good advice the other day: attend to the many glaring problems in your own country before attempting to micromanage the world. Is it possible that the Israelis would have forged a peace with their neighbors long ago if Washington had not armed them to the teeth, repeatedly enabled them and absolved them of all their war crimes?
We Americans would do ourselves well to take the Iranian advice. Realist your comment describes the Israeli Palestinian quagmire to the fullest. Thanks for the reply Joe
Jimbo-
“No one wants this, no one, but this is what the Israelis are dealing with as best as they think they can.”
I doubt that Bibi represents the will of the majority of Israelis any more than the US government represents the will of the majority of its citizens. Bad things happen because bad people are drawn to power. For a very enlightening interview from “the Sun” magazine, I recommend the following:
http://thesunmagazine.org/issues/490/an_unlikely_friendship
peace
“Yes, the policy toward the Palestinians is horrid but that wasn’t the plan”
Not according to Zionist Historian Morris:
According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?
Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field – they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village – she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved.
The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion.
That can’t be chance. It’s a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres.
What you are telling me here, as though by the way, is that in Operation Hiram there was a comprehensive and explicit expulsion order. Is that right?
Yes. One of the revelations in the book is that on October 31, 1948, the commander of the Northern Front, Moshe Carmel, issued an order in writing to his units to expedite the removal of the Arab population. Carmel took this action immediately after a visit by Ben-Gurion to the Northern Command in Nazareth. There is no doubt in my mind that this order originated with Ben-Gurion. Just as the expulsion order for the city of Lod, which was signed by Yitzhak Rabin, was issued immediately after Ben-Gurion visited the headquarters of Operation Dani [July 1948].
Are you saying that Ben-Gurion was personally responsible for a deliberate and systematic policy of mass expulsion?
From April 1948, Ben-Gurion is projecting a message of transfer. There is no explicit order of his in writing, there is no orderly comprehensive policy, but there is an atmosphere of [population] transfer. The transfer idea is in the air. The entire leadership understands that this is the idea. The officer corps understands what is required of them. Under Ben-Gurion, a consensus of transfer is created.
Ben-Gurion was a “transferist”?
Of course. Ben-Gurion was a transferist. He understood that there could be no Jewish state with a large and hostile Arab minority in its midst. There would be no such state. It would not be able to exist.
I don’t hear you condemning him.
Ben-Gurion was right. If he had not done what he did, a state would not have come into being. That has to be clear. It is impossible to evade it. Without the uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state would not have arisen here.
http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm
Lots more where that came from.
You haven’t read too much history of the place, have you? Palestinian Removal was being discussed many decades before the Brits finally gave in to the Zionist Terrorists.
jimbo
“to humanize the Israeli side”
I suppose the logical conclusion is the Nazis, the Huns, Mussolini, the Crusades, and the slaughters of history are all humans too.
Have you heard the Israeli expression of “mowing the grass” as they go in and kill the innocents in that open air prison of theirs where they control the taxes, the water, the food, and just about everything else? It is very human of them to be sure.
How about this idea? Israel declares their nukes and joins the rest of the world in the NPT or the IAEA. And while they are at it declare their chemical stock of WMD, just to be a bit more human, and stop taking taxes from Americans.
Humanity would dictate they don’t create more settlements on Palestinian land in the Golan Heights, nor try to steal the water and oil from said region. Giving back what they stole in ’67 may also be a humanitarian gesture, or have you forgotten that too?
I also am reminded of the humanity of the people who brought lounge chairs and popcorn and snacks and sat on the hill above Gaza as the planes killed civilians with ease, and no guilt as they yelled in support of the dying.
You must have a silly notion of what it means to humanize a populace. No wonder the “harsh criticism is painful” to you.
Go back to your dreams of warm-hugging zionists please.
WTF? My tax dollars (taken from the mouths of American children) are going to help fund the Zionist project. Deal with your own issues- take your money and go there and leave folks here in peace.
I think a better understanding of the history of Zionism would lead you to realize that the reconquest of Palestine and the creation of a Greater Israel was the goal of the movement long before the creation of the nation in 1948 and that Israeli policy toward Palestinian land is best understood in that context.
Americans DO have “a dog in this fight” as it is American tax dollars that are propping up the “state” of Israel.
It was sickening to see the American Congress cheering and clapping multiple times when Netanyahu was addressing both houses of Congress. It appeared that Netanyahu was the “boss” lording it over our Congress, while our Congress was asking for “more” abuse.
If I had my way, AIPAC would be required to (finally) register as an “agent of a foreign government”. All 40 or so dual-citizenship Israeli-American Congresscritters and the thousands of federal employees who also hold “dual citizenship” with Israel would be on the next plane to Tel Aviv with their American citizenship revoked. Dual citizenship with ANY country would be strictly prohibited.
It is long overdue for Israel to stop “wagging the dog”, getting the USA involved in fights it has no business being in.
Also, ALL “foreign aid” to ALL countries (not just Israel) would stop immediately
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqQu1OkAgaI
Before reading the Bernstein and Pilger article, I received a letter from Middle East Children’s Alliance. The founder and director is Barbara Lubin. I am guessing she is Jewish as so many articulate anti-Zionists are. She describes the prison that is Gaza limited to 1-3 hours of electricity a day and hemmed in by Israel and Egypt. Disheartening throughout, the article speaks of the Egyptians closing the Gaza borders. It is a testimony of the impact, among other things, of the power of American money, which has paid for Egyptian compliance with Israeli rules regarding the people in Gaza since the Camp David Accords in the late 70’s.
Mr. Pilger states that nothing will happen until the United States deems it to, but before such a change in the US will occur, I would put my money on the Jews themselves, people like Barbara Rubin and Uri Avnery, if he is still around.
Dennis J Bernstein…I salute your courage and your journalistic integrity! I am reminded of the tribulations of Norman Finkelstein when he criticized zionist influence on American policy and was attacked by Alan Dershowitz back in 2007. Finkelstein lost his tenure at DePaul University and was blacklisted from speaking at academia events and yet, today the controversy is about whether Ann Coulter or Milo Yiannopoulos should be granted a platform for hate speech!
” Dennis J Bernstein…I salute your courage and your journalistic integrity!’
I do also.
When will Netanyahu’s reign of terror end? Has he declared himself PRESIDENT FOR LIFE (dictator) over the State of Israel? ! !
(:
Israel Struck Hezbollah Targets in Syria Dozens of Times, Netanyahu Reveals in Hot-mic Remarks
Although the meeting had been behind closed doors, Netanyahu’s remarks were accidentally transmitted to the earbuds distributed among reporters
Barak Ravid (Budapest)
Jul 19, 2017
BUDAPEST – Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu admitted to the prime ministers of Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland and Slovakia that Israel had carried out dozens of attacks against Hezbollah arms convoys in Syria.
“We blocked the border not only in Egypt but in the Golan Heights,” he said. “We built the wall because there was a problem with ISIS and Iran trying to build a terror front there. I told Putin, when we see them transferring weapons to Hezbollah, we will hurt them. We did it dozens of times.”
Although the meeting had been behind closed doors, Netanyahu’s remarks were accidentally transmitted to the earbuds distributed among reporters, though his people discovered the transmission and shut it down within a few minutes.
Netanyahu launched a blistering attack against the European Union during the meeting, telling the premiers of Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland and Slovakia that the EU’s behavior toward Israel is crazy.
Netanyahu told reporters after his meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron on Sunday that Israel opposes the cease-fire agreement in southern Syria that the United States and Russia reached because it perpetuates the Iranian presence in the country. The prime minister noted that in his meeting with Macron, he made it clear to the French president that Israel was totally opposed to the cease-fire plan.
Read More:
Netanyahu launches blistering attack on EU: ‘Their behavior toward Israel is crazy’
Analysis Israel escalates threats against Iran
Analysis Israel stuck between a Trump rock and Putin hard place over Syria cease-fire
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.802151
That is disturbing. After all the death, misery and excruciating, painstaking diplomacy to arrive at another fragile cease-fire, Israel could simply decide to charge into Syria with guns blazing and the United States would undoubtedly back it up and join the fray. The world must be shaped to America’s vision, which most importantly includes Netanyahoo’s vision of the Middle East.
” … Israel could simply decide to charge into Syria with guns blazing”
Not likely. The IDF specializes in massacring the defenseless population of Gaza, maiming and murdering unarmed Palestinians in occupied territory, demolishing homes, and incarcerating and torturing Palestinians children.
The IDF avoids fighting armed and trained soldiers such as Hezbollah and Hamas, who compensate their disadvantage in arms and material with courage, tenacity, and discipline.
The Israelis are no match in a fair fight.
Netanyahoo is evil and crazy. So is Israel. Thanks for pointing this out.
” I told Putin, when we see them transferring weapons to Hezbollah, we will hurt them. We did it dozens of times.”….Netanyahu
Israel also carried out some strikes in Syria—-but not since Russia told them they would take down their planes if they entered Syria air space again I think . I would have to check but think I’m right.
Those like Israel doing evil deeds strongly resist being called out for it. The truth hurts, and they don’t want to feel that. They are at war with their own conscience, and with those who would remind them of it.
Whilst the Israeli criticizing discussed in this piece is an extreme example of what one can say or write about the injustice of the Israeli state, this is becoming common place in every day life as well. For example; over here in the UK advertisers in any medium are now banned from showing adverts which depict a woman as being a housewife. So advertising say, a new type of hover, the advertisers are prohibited from showing a woman doing the cleaning as this apparently denigrates women and puts them in the “house wife” bracket. Another example even more bizarre, is where the announcers at railway stations are now no longer allowed to say “good morning ladies and gentlemen” and then go on to draw attention to train arrivals/departures etc. They now have to say “good morning people” because the term ‘ladies and gentlemen’ might upset the transgender brigade!!! Its worth bearing in mind that in Germany its illegal to make any critical remark about any foreign leader (including the nut job in North Korea) and as posters here may know, a comedian was recently taken to court just for this offence which carries a prison term. I’m afraid that speaking one’s mind and free speech will soon become a thing of the past.
John, your remark about “the nut job in North Korea” seems to disagree with the recent CN article disputing this propaganda demonization of Kim Jong Un. Would you care to explain your characterization of North Korea’s present leader?
Thank god with have the first amendment here, although many leftists here would approve of the examples you mentioned.
You guys totally miss the point about China/NK. Here’s what I said on Antiwar today:
“…You have a fourth rate, post ideological gangster-style economic power tying with Zambia which starves its people so it can afford nukes and threaten the hegemon with nuclear annihilation on a daily basis. You have the Chinese who have nurtured this situation as a foil to US interests (which have contracted for 20 years} and have aggressively tried to fill the power vacuum left by the US. The Chinese could have put this situation away for years at anytime by simply closing the border until NK either fell or caved-in. If the Chinese want to save their vaulted “trade”, they better clean up the mess before the Yanks accidentally/on purpose fix it for them, ruin their trade thing, and leave the US more powerful and in control than ever before. Or else, F all these people, vaporize the NKs and put the Chinese back in their corner.”
The North Korean dictatorship has seen what giving up weapons of mass destruction has led to in other countries, and they certainly will not do so. However, they could be ready to stop their further development if they are not constantly threatened by the US. Officially, the Korean war has not ended, there is only a ceasefire, and there are threatening military exercises in North Korea’s vicinity. It has never been attempted to offer a full peace treaty to North Korea. Any attempt to “solve” this problem by military means would mean a very large number of deaths – in North and South Korea and possibly Japan – even if only conventional weapons were used. Seoul is close to the North Korean border and would probably largely be destroyed. As the nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki at a time when Japan was close to capitulation have shown, Asian lives don’t count much in the US. But if the US sacrifices the lives of hundreds of thousands or millions of South Koreans for its aggressive foreign policies, this would be one of the worst crimes. Of course, the North Korean dictatorship is very repressive, but any attempt to remove it by military means would cause much more suffering, while there is some hope that there will be some kind of Perestroyka in the long run if North Korea is not threatened.
Why should China start a blockade of North Korea? It is the US that still refuses a peace treaty with North Korea and pushes North Korea to increase its means for self-defense because of constant US threats.
Adrian;
Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that only 3, non-Rothschild bank-controlled countries still exist in the world;
Iran
Syria
N.Korea
And Putin kicked out dear Mr. Rothschild.
Make sense now?
Is USA foreign policy controlled by Rothschilds? Serious question.
1. Which article did you add that comment under? None of those published today have it
2. You obviously haven;t the foggiest idea of what NK & China are about, you are just spouting US government drivel, trying desperately to make the world believe the US is still in control as the world’s self-appointed policeman
3. your mindless, boring rant is not something of interest. Try reading this article, study it, then come back: http://original.antiwar.com/ann_wright/2017/07/14/north-korean-leadership-may-ruthless-reckless-not-crazy/
The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the patter, and is there any hood cheaper than a Yankee Doodle one?
The people who call you self-loathing, Mr. Bernstein, because you stand for justice and principles rather than blood and ethnic solidarity are moral miscreants motivated by power and avarice. It’s rare to find a gentile American who is not an unwitting supporter of Zionism and quite exceptional to find a Jew so courageous to buck the impregnable Zionist lobby. You are at least as brave as the Islamic dissidents like Salman Rushdie who continued to speak and live in public in spite of a fatwah declared by the ayatollah against him.
Gush some more. I know you have a problem with complex problem solving, but try to do a little critical analysis.
All right, so we know you are one of Mr. Bernstein’s persecutors. And we know from your response below that you seem to have a knee-jerk propensity to choose violence as a means to solve impasses in your favor. I’ll bet you use it all the time in the Middle East to further the interests of your people. Don’t think you can come here to find any sympathy for your simplistic warmongering.
You seem to have a problem to keep the image of the nazi-onist apartheid state clean. No matter how much money the regime in Tel Aviv spends on hasbara, the cause is not just so like Nazi Germany & apartheid South Africa, the nazi-onist state will cave in & capitulate.
Shill much, Mr. jsinton? Surprised your other sock-puppet accounts haven’t come on here to bolster and support your ‘position’.
BERNSTEIN AND “THE STATE OF TERROR”
Dennis Bernstein’s article about the harassment of anyone who
criticizes Israel or more accurately Zionism is subject to hatred
from the majority of others is well put. I have encountered it many
times and am now at the point where being silent is my only
course in public. Naturally, I could not say what I say daily in
my heart, that is, that I am a passionate anti-Zionist.
(Aside: Last week an apparently nice man asked to join the
table where we were eating a meal. He was warmly welcomed.
He always wears a knitted yarmulka. On the assumption of my
fidelity to Zionism, he began pushing the glories of Zionism’s
history on me. I said in an even tone, “I respect your opinion
but I am an anti-Zionist.” There was silence. In fact I was disingenuous
as in fact I do NOT “respect his opinion”. Not at all. He has never
joined us again. There are some Jehovah;’s Witnesses who often
join. They are delightful and warm. The condition is that religion
can never be a part of the conversation. That is difficult for them
I know as their beliefs are part of the faith and discussing it
is their mission etc. )
Many of the basic issues concerning Zionism are dealt
with superbly in Thomas Suarez’s recent work “STATE OF TERROR:
HOW TERRORISM CREATED MODERN ISRAEL” ( Olive Branch Press,
2017). Suarez addresses the history of Israel together up to about
the 48-49 war ..
Perhaps Mr. Bernstein has indeed already read Suarez. For readers
who have not done so, I urge them to do so post haste.
(STATE OF TERROR by Thomas Suarez is available at Amazon
and most certainly is available elsewhere as well, unless an outlet
has been subjected to Israeli/Zionist threats and harassment.)
Based on Suarez as well as other analyses of the “conflict”
(Zionist invasion) in Palestine, I personally doubt that
dialogues and such sweet things are solutions at all.
Israel has the weapons thanks to the US, the economic support
from the US and others.
In 1897 two Zionist Rabbis visited Palestine. They famously
telegraphed home:
“The bride is beautiful. Unfortunately, she is already married.”
When writing in the Electronic Intifada (which I have done for
many years) I am preaching to the choir.
And still those of us who oppose Israeli terrorism are silenced.
“Marginalized” to use contemporary phrases. And worse.
To continue mentioning the horrors of the terror state is
at this point useless. Suarez has in large part accomplished
this.
—-Peter Loeb, Boston , MA, USA
Well said!