Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre

The West has made a snap judgment about who is responsible for the massacre at the Ukrainian town of Bucha with calls for more stringent sanctions on Russia, but the question of guilt is far from decided, writes  Joe Lauria.

Victims in Bucha. (Ukrainian Ministry of Digital Development Mikhail Fedorov/Wikimedia Commons)

By Joe Lauria
Special to Consortium News

Within hours of news Sunday that there had been a massacre at Bucha, a town 63 kms north of the Ukrainian capital, the verdict was in:  Russian troops had senselessly slaughtered hundreds of innocent civilians as they withdrew from the town, leaving their bodies littering the streets. 

Unlike their judicial systems, when it comes to war, Western nations dispense with the need for investigations and evidence and pronounce guilt based on political motives: Russia is guilty. Case closed.

Except the case hasn’t even been opened yet and the sentence is already being proposed. French President Emmanuel Macron, for instance, has called for Russian coal and oil to be banned from Europe. “There are very clear indications of war crimes,” he said on France Inter radio Monday. “What happened in Bucha demands a new round of sanctions and very clear measures, so we will co-ordinate with our European partners, especially with Germany.”

Other voices are now perilously calling for the U.S. to go to war with Russia over the incident.  

“This is genocide,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told Face the Nation on CBS. “Mothers of Russians should see this. See what bastards you’ve raised. Murderers, looters, butchers,” he added on Telegram.

Russia has categorically denied it had anything to do with the massacre.

Where to Start

If there were to be a serious probe, one of the first places an investigator would begin is to map out a timeline of events. 

Last Wednesday, all Russian forces left Bucha, according to the Russian Defense Ministry. 

This was confirmed on Thursday by a smiling Anatolii Fedoruk, the mayor of Bucha, in a video on the Bucha City Council official Facebook page.  The translated post accompanying the video says:

“March 31 – the day of the liberation of Bucha. This was announced by Bucha Mayor Anatolii Fedoruk. This day will go down in the glorious history of Bucha and the entire Bucha community as a day of liberation by the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the Russian occupiers.”

Screenshot from Fedoruk Facebook video.

All of the Russian troops are gone and yet there is no mention of a massacre. The beaming Fedoruk says it is a “glorious day” in the history of Bucha, which would hardly be the case if hundreds of dead civilians littered the streets around Fedoruk. 

“Russian Defence Ministry denied accusations by the Kiev regime of the alleged killing of civilians in Bucha, Kiev Region. Evidence of crimes in Bucha appeared only on the fourth day after the Security Service of Ukraine and representatives of Ukrainian media arrived in the town. All Russian units completely withdrew from Bucha on March 30, and ‘not a single local resident was injured’ during the time when Bucha was under the control of Russian troops,” the Russian MOD said in a post on Telegram.

What Happened Next?

What happened then on Friday and Saturday? As pointed out in a piece by Jason Michael McCann on Standpoint Zero, The New York Times was in Bucha on Saturday and did not report a massacre. Instead, the Times said the withdrawal was completed on Saturday, two days after the mayor said it was, and that the Russians left “behind them dead soldiers and burned vehicles, according to witnesses, Ukrainian officials, satellite images and military analysts.”

The Times said reporters found the bodies of six civilians. “It was unclear under what circumstances they had died, but the discarded packaging of a Russian military ration was lying beside one man who had been shot in the head,” the paper said. It then quoted a Zelensky adviser, who said:

“’The bodies of people with tied hands, who were shot dead by soldiers lie in the streets,’ the adviser, Mykhailo Podolyak, said on Twitter. ‘These people were not in the military. They had no weapons. They posed no threat.’ He included an image of a scene, photographed by Agence France-Presse, showing three bodies on the side of a road, one with hands apparently tied behind the back. The New York Times was unable to independently verify Mr. Podolyak’s claim the people had been executed.'”

It is possible that on Saturday the full extent of the horror had yet to emerge, and that even the mayor was unaware of it two days before, though photos now show many of the bodies out in the open on the streets of the town, something that presumably would be difficult to miss. 

In Bucha, the Times was close to the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, whose soldiers appear in the newspaper’s photographs. In his piece, McCann suggests that Azov may responsible for the killings:

“Something very interesting then happens on [Saturday] 2 April, hours before a massacre is brought to the attention of the national and international media. The US and EU-funded Gorshenin Institute online [Ukrainian language] site Left Bank announced that:

‘Special forces have begun a clearing operation in the city of Bucha in the Kyiv region, which has been liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The city is being cleared from saboteurs and accomplices of Russian forces.’

The Russian military has by now completely left the city, so this sounds for all the world like reprisals. The state authorities would be going through the city searching for ‘saboteurs’ and ‘accomplices of Russian forces.’ Only the day before [Friday], Ekaterina Ukraintsiva, representing the town council authority, appeared on an information video on the Bucha Live Telegram page wearing military fatigues and seated in front of a Ukrainian flag to announce ‘the cleansing of the city.’ She informed residents that the arrival of the Azov battalion did not mean that liberation was complete (but it was, the Russians had fully withdrawn), and that a ‘complete sweep’ had to be performed.”

Ukraintsiva was speaking a day after the mayor had said the town was liberated.   

By Sunday morning, the world learned of the massacre of hundreds of people. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said: “We strongly condemn apparent atrocities by Kremlin forces in Bucha and across Ukraine. We are pursuing accountability using every tool available, documenting and sharing information to hold accountable those responsible.” President Joe Biden on Monday called for a “war crimes” trial. “This guy is brutal, and what’s happening in Bucha is outrageous, and everyone’s seen it. I think it’s a war crime.”

The Bucha incident is a critical moment in the war. An impartial investigation is warranted, which probably only the U.N. could conduct. The Azov Battalion may have perpetrated revenge killings against Russian collaborators, or the Russians carried out this massacre. (Once again the Pentagon is dampening the war hysteria, saying it can’t confirm or deny Russia was responsible.)

A rush to judgment is dangerous, with irresponsible talk of the U.S. directly fighting Russia. But it is a rush to judgment that we are getting.

[Update: Satellite images, published after this article appeared by The New York Times, purportedly showing bodies strewn on a street in mid-March, should be considered by an impartial investigation. It cannot be considered at this point as conclusive evidence.]

Joe Lauria is editor-in-chief of Consortium News and a former U.N. correspondent for The Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, and numerous other newspapers, including The Montreal Gazette and The Star of Johannesburg. He was an investigative reporter for the Sunday Times of London, a financial reporter for Bloomberg News and began his professional work as a 19-year old stringer for The New York Times.  He can be reached at joelauria@consortiumnews.com and followed on Twitter @unjoe  

 

131 comments for “Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre

  1. “Slavic Christian Society”
    April 9, 2022 at 13:55

    US, CANADA, UKRAINE AND RUSSIA 2022 DISPUTES – HISTORICAL BACKGROUND AND SEQUEL TO FR. PETER MORELLO’S COMMENTS: (1) US, Canada, Ukraine and Russia are Caucasian-European nations by ethnic majority and nominally Christian nations by religious majority; (2) Ukraine and Russia are also Slavic nations and neighbors with similar laws (limits) on abortion and LGBT; (3) Russia was US’ supporter in the American Revolution at great cost to herself – the island of Menorca; (4) Russia was US’ supporter in the Civil War when US’ opponents were Britain and France, prompting US Secretary of Navy, Gideon Welles to say “God bless the Russians”; (5) US (western Alaska) and Russia are neighbors, and Canada (northwestern Yukon) is closer to Russia than to Britain and France or Mexico; (6) US and Russia were never at war, not counting the Cold War or proxy wars, as compared, for example, with the “G7” nations; (7) US, Canada, NATO and Ukraine have disputes with Russia since the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia and militarization of countries neighboring Russia which was invaded over the centuries by NATO members Britain, France, Germany, (Mussolini’s) Italy, Romania, Lithuania-Poland, Turkey and by others including Sweden and the Mongols who inflicted on Ukraine and Russia death and destruction with hardly any parallels in world’s history – Germany also helped Lenin to impose psychopathic and deadly Marxism on Ukraine and Russia in 1917, while Ukraine and Russia, mostly by themselves, prevented Poland’s annihilation by Nazis and saved Europe from Nazi Germany and Mongols; (8) Ukraine and Russia have a border dispute, and a military conflict-war since the violations of the February 21, 2014 all-Ukrainian political agreement in Kiev and the violations of the 2014-2015 Minsk Peace Agreement signed by Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France (in the future, a joint venture by the Minsk signatories in securing Ukrainian segment of “Pan-European” gas pipeline might be a “win-win”) – by February 23, 2022 the war took some 15,000 lives and produced thousands of refugees as well as widespread material destruction in eastern Ukraine; on February 24, 2022 Russia escalated the war and invaded Ukraine resulting in many more deaths, refugees and material destruction across Ukraine; (9) US and Russia can destroy each other and the world with their nuclear weapons in an hour; (10) the irreplaceable way forward for resolving these issues are the eternally-valid biblical principles reflected in President Washington’s Farewell Address in which he called religion-morality the foundation of domestic well-being and peace with other nations and in President Lincoln’s last Inaugural Address “… with malice towards none, with charity for all … among ourselves and with all nations”, as well as in Pope Francis’ 2022 call for prayer and political talks centered on “human brotherhood instead of partisan interests”, all the while keeping in mind the 2022 Lenten message “Remember thou art dust and to dust thou shalt return” and “Repent and believe in the Gospel” which also includes “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” and the parable of “the speck and the log” – moral principles given to us by Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace and the just Judge of the world, principles ignored at one’s great peril.
    See also hxxps://paxchristiusa.org/2022/02/24/pax-christi-usas-statement-on-russians-invasion-of-ukraine.

  2. Paine
    April 7, 2022 at 10:20

    Photos show the dead victims facing away from the camera, not seen at all, or their faces obscured of covered.

    The public needs to know the names of the dead victims, and whether they were fighters, civilians, pro-Ukrainian or pro-Russian. The news media has nod published such basic facts.

    Such info is the first step in determining who is responsible for the killings.

  3. Guy St Hilaire
    April 6, 2022 at 18:59

    Graphic with a warning ,the execution of Russian POWs lying in the street .They will not get away with this .
    I have not watched it from this link .Once is enough for me .
    hxxps://english.pravda.ru/news/world/151016-russian_soldiers_executed/

  4. April 6, 2022 at 09:59

    EXCELLENT work, Joe. Thanks. ray

  5. R
    April 5, 2022 at 15:35

    As Scott Ritter mentioned in his recent interview with The Duran, the EU already has a forensics investigatory team in Ukraine. (But for some reason they are not going to Bucha and the bodies are now being buried). hmmmm

    • Ian
      April 6, 2022 at 02:20

      You have to ask yourself also about the condition of these bodies. Have they really been in the open air and rain etc as long as the claim? The report above and the timeline makes me very suspicious of the whole event.

  6. R
    April 5, 2022 at 15:18

    Don’t forget the Ukrainian National Police on their own website on April 2 posted nothing about dead bodies all over town, and in addition also mentioned the “cleansing” operations. How very odd to not mention dead all over the streets, unless you are involved in a “cleansing” operation and haven’t worked out how to spin it yet. hxxps://www.npu.gov.ua/news/stoprussia/speczpriznachenczi-naczpolicziji-rozpochali-zachistku-mista-bucha/

    • JB
      April 6, 2022 at 04:41

      What is extra confusing is that NYT claims it has sattelite images that are 3 weeks old showing these dead civilians and at the same time these were supposedly killed when the russians pulled out last week. Someone is lying here.

      • PK
        April 8, 2022 at 11:35

        Yup, that does not match with the claim that Russian just killed those people when they left.

        If massacre was done 2 – 3 weeks ago one would expect it would have been noticed and leaked outside even earlier, when even now it’s strange that there seems to be several days cap until anyone happened to notice that there seems to be bodies lying everywhere after Russians had withdrawn.

        Also that Russia is asking independent investigation of the case tells that they are surprisingly open about something that could unearth incriminating evidence that can then be used against them.

  7. April 5, 2022 at 14:30

    I read where the EU is dispatching an investigative team to the Ukraine to ‘assist’ with the Ukrainian investigation of the alleged atrocities at Bucha committed by the Russians.

    Meanwhile, the Security Counsel refused Russia’s request to dispatch an independent investigative team which would most likely be rejected by Ukraine anyways.

    So much for transparent objectivity.

    • Frigga Karl
      April 5, 2022 at 20:01

      Strange enough that the Security Counsel refused Russia’s request of an independent investigation ! There is no trust in the Ukrainian National Garde with the Nazi Battalion known for its barbarity and visceral hate for Russia , one can imagine the “cleansing operations” after the Russian leave. Remember when the PLO had to leave Beirut (Libanon) in September 1982 the Palestinian refugee camps were not protected anymore and the Lebanese Falange in accordance with the Israelis carried out the massacre of Sabra and Shatila.

      • SxyxS
        April 6, 2022 at 13:14

        They have to sabotage investigations until the point when it becomes impossible to date back the time of killing.
        Right now even a blind man would see that the people were killed hours ago and not days ago and that all those who were killed by bullets were killed recently.
        But after 3-4 weeks it will no longer be possible to tell wether the victims were killed on april 4th or march 30 th.

        But there is a simply proof : Bucha had internet access and Bucha is not an Amish Smartphone Free city.
        If there would have been a massacre march 30th,5 minutes later it would have gone viral.

        Considering that Ukrainians don’t mind filming themselves while torturing and killing Russian soldiers
        they would have uploaded Russian atrocities within a second.

        The main reason why Zelensky staged this event were indeed all those selfies of Ukrainian torturing Russian soldiers.
        To counter the massive Ukrainian atrocities momentum he desperately needed a Russian atrocities momentum.

    • Tigers
      April 5, 2022 at 22:57

      Where is this being reported? I’ve not heard this anywhere.

  8. Alan Heffez
    April 5, 2022 at 14:24

    What is one to make of the satellite images, which according to a BBC report were recorded on March 19: “A satellite image of Bucha in Ukraine appears to show bodies lying in the street nearly two weeks before the Russians left the town”?

    [See: hxxps://www.bbc.com/news/60981238 The caption reads: “Image from Maxar, 19 March 2022.”]

    How credible are dates attached to satellite images?
    Who is able to verify such images?
    Why would the BBC use the qualifier “appears to show”?

    Thank you for your clarifications.

    • JB
      April 6, 2022 at 04:46

      It makes no sense, especially since the initial claim was that these were killed when the russians pulled out on the 30th of March. Also several hundreds killed in a small Town and no previous reports when these bodies were lying in the street for weeks? Nobody moved them? Or covered them? Seriously?

  9. Surrealisto
    April 5, 2022 at 14:21

    Hmm- no comments yet here related to the news that- satellite photos appear to show that the Russians DID carry out a number of civilian attacks in Bucha, bodies seen before the Russians pulled out, also a few descriptions from civilians of Russian snipers picking off anyone who dared venture onto the streets. These satellite articles seemed to come out something like five or six hours after I saw THIS article. So stitching those two timelines together might be a good chore for Mr Lauria. I am not prone to believe either side till all the facts are in. In the fog of war it’s pretty obvious a lot of things get said that may or may not have any real relevance to the situation.

    • JB
      April 6, 2022 at 06:09

      On the contrary. These satellite images contradicts the initial claims saying these civilians were killed as the russians pulled out as a revenge. Another thing that strikes me, why have western intelligence detailed images of exactly this street in this town? Optical reconnaissance satellites can provide high resolution pictures like this, however only for small and specific areas.

  10. Jeff Harrison
    April 5, 2022 at 14:14

    It was Ukrainian Nazis that trapped 60 people in a building in Odessa, set it on fire, and burned them all to death. The Nazis are going to have to prove they had nothing to do with this before I’ll even consider somebody else. The only other country that I can think of that has had the military senselessly slaughter civilians in recent memory is the US (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq for sure). We, of course, get away with it. It also strikes me as interesting that once the US armed and funded rebel scum in Syria has been pushed back further into the desert and the “white” helmets have disappeared from rebel controlled areas, we haven’t had any more chlorine attacks. Gee. I wonder why.

    • William Bell
      April 8, 2022 at 01:21

      “The only other country that I can think of that has had the military senselessly slaughter civilians in recent memory is the US”

      If you’re alluding to the My Lai massacre, it was perpetrated by members of a single company of the US Army at the direction of a company officer, Lieutenant Calley, without the knowledge, consent, or direction of anyone in his chain of command.

      And that was hardly the only deliberate slaughter of civilians perpetrated within the span of my life by the military of nations other than the US. Have you not heard, for instance, of the massacre of civilians in Hué by units of the North Vietnamese Army?? hxxps://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/mass-graves-discovered-in-hue

  11. Wade Hathaway
    April 5, 2022 at 13:52

    I hate to be an arm chair observer, but this looks like Ukrainian para-military style extrajudicial killings. We know Ukraine is using these types of units. Russia is not beyond doing such a thing (nor is the US) but right now Russia needs all the good press it can get. It seems unlikely they would make such a mess of a withdrawal from the town. Also, the timeline and evidence just doesn’t add up. Additionally, in the early days of the uprisings (around 2015-2016), the Ukrainian paramilitary units did quite a bit of similar nasty work in the rebelling states, with incredibly brutal killings of Russian speakers. An investigation is warranted, but who impartial is available to do it?

  12. Drew Hunkins
    April 5, 2022 at 13:08

    Anyone who believes the Bucha bull**** story being trumpeted by the corporate-militarist media is a deluded imbecile. It’s obviously a sick ploy to garner public support in the West for NATO boots on the ground. NATO boots on the ground means war between Russia and Washington, war between Russia and Washington will quickly spiral out of control, which means nuclear war could be a distinct possibility. This is why the few sane heads in the Pentagon are balking.

    The timeline doesn’t add up for the Bucha bull**** to even be credible, the logic to it makes no sense whatsoever. The Russian Federation has gone out of its way to avoid civilian casualties, always has, just like in Syria. Russia desires that the Ukrainian public have fond feelings for the Russian govt for future diplomatic relations.

    The Pentagon is putting the brakes on this stupid Bucha propaganda offensive by releasing a statement today saying the responsible parties for the Bucha atrocity are yet to be determined. The few sane heads in the Defense Dept know that the crazies in the State Dept, intel agencies, Congress, and the corporate media could easily let this get out of hand resulting in a shooting war between the U.S. and Russia.

    It was the far right Ukie militias who tortured and murdered many civilians who they felt had pro-Russian sympathies. The Russian military has been bringing in humanitarian aid to just about every Ukrainian town and city it’s touched. Russia has no incentive to commit massacres when it’s essentially reaching all its goals.

    Thankfully within the next couple of months Russia will accomplish all the objectives it set out to achieve: 1.) keep NATO permanently out of Ukraine, 2.) rescue the Donbass from the threat of Ukie invasion and domination, 3.) eliminate many of the far-right fascist Slavophobic savages.

  13. dc_rez
    April 5, 2022 at 12:58

    I have seen posts on Telegram of news articles / reports from the 2nd week of March.
    The images, video and topic of the articles are from Bucha. The hospital and morgue in the town worked together to bury the dead, they no longer had the capacity to handle the number of bodies. According to reports they dug 2 trenches, 1 for Ukranian deceased and one for Russian speakers. There is video of the process online.

  14. dc_rez
    April 5, 2022 at 12:45

    Second week of March, the 12th and 13th.

  15. Charrob
    April 5, 2022 at 12:25

    I may be missing something, but didn’t Zelensky state that all men in Ukraine under the age of (I think) 60 are not allowed to leave Ukraine and must fight the Russians?

    So photographs of men under the age of 60 would be photographs of combatants, would it not?

    And aren’t a lot of the photographs of the dead that are being considered as civilians actually photographs of men under the age of 60?

  16. JMF
    April 5, 2022 at 11:11

    And here is a thorough analysis of that Ukrainian litany of BS I referred to earlier, including Bucha:

    “New witness testimony about Mariupol maternity hospital ‘airstrike’ follows pattern of Ukrainian deceptions, media malpractice”
    hxxps://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/03/testimony-mariupol-hospital-ukrainian-deceptions-media-malpractice/

  17. alley cat
    April 5, 2022 at 11:03

    The UK currently holds the rotating presidency of the U.N. Security Council and just used that power to block two Russian requests for an emergency meeting.

    Alex Christoforou’s reaction to this brazen UK censorship was “…the fact that the UK denied this meeting tells me everything I need to know.”

    Agreed. If the UK had any reliable evidence inculpating Russia, the UK would call a meeting to present it. Instead, the UK prevents the meeting.

    Thanks, UK. You just saved everyone the trouble of conducting an independent forensic investigation. Your guys did it, and you think you can bottle up the truth with strong-arm tactics, like you and your U.S. partners in crime did with the rigged OPCW (Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons) investigation into the Douma false flag attack.

    • Wade Hathaway
      April 5, 2022 at 21:19

      Yeah, especially with the new trade agreement, UK is now pretty much a vassal state to the US. Amazing what can happen in 250 years.

  18. Stephanie
    April 5, 2022 at 10:12

    So if you were starving and took a MRE from a soldier or just found it on the ground you got shot in the head for being a “saboteur” and not starving and dying like Zelensky wants and told you to do!

    • Rob Roy
      April 5, 2022 at 12:18

      This jumping to erroneous conclusions reminds me of Theresa May, about an hour after Sergei Skripal and his daughter were found on a bench in Salisbury, England, yelling the “Russians did it,” something she couldn’t possibly know. Putin immediately offered help in an investigation. No way anyone in the west has ever responded to Putin’s offers of openness with the same.
      As for this “massacre,” I don’t even know if those “victims” are dead, all placed equal distance apart with clean white ties on their wrists. I’ve seen too many staged scenes courtesy of the US and UK. Besides Joe’s article, this is the best writing on this “massacre” I’ve read: “Reichstag Fires, White Helmets, and Russian ‘Savages'” You can find it online.

      • Maggie Harrison
        April 5, 2022 at 15:54

        Russia is UK Government s “ bogey man” and they live in the hope, they can bring him down!
        Why was our Defence Secretary, in a secret meeting with three men, in Ukraine, before Christmas?
        Exposed by young people with refreshments…and a hidden camera..Consortium News printed it!
        The plot was done by then..just needed our entire Parliament, to jump up and down, like idiots. listening, to
        Zelinsky, who helped Israel bomb Gaza last year! This is the man, our PM has adopted as his hero..
        another liar…so, its a match made in lies…which they both excel in!

    • Helga Fellay
      April 5, 2022 at 13:08

      or else it was placed next to a body intentionally to give the media the impression it must have been a Russian who killed him. It wouldn’t be the first time such a thing happened in false flag events.

  19. JMMorgan
    April 5, 2022 at 09:39

    Thanks, good article. In my opinion a rush to judgment is always a sign of bad faith (pushing a propaganda agenda rather than determining truth).

    To paraphrase our “intelligence community,” this is “classic textbook [U.S.] disinformation tradecraft” at work.

  20. JMF
    April 5, 2022 at 09:19

    Coverage here of the white arm bands and their significance to the Ukrainian “clean-up” crews:

    “Kiev’s Bucha Provocation Aimed at Disrupting Peace Talks & Prolonging Conflict, Observers Say”
    hxxps://sputniknews.com/20220404/kievs-bucha-provocation-aimed-at-disrupting-peace-talks–prolonging-conflict-observers-say-1094478685.html

    ‘… In the video, released by one of the Kiev territorial defence battalion leaders, a Ukrainian fighter is heard asking whether they can shoot people without blue armbands. The other one responds: “F***, of course!” A blue armband is an identifier of Ukrainian forces, while a white one is worn by the Russian military and pro-Russia individuals. …’

  21. JMF
    April 5, 2022 at 08:19

    Considering the litany of BS that has come from Ukrainian sources since the very onset of this Russian military operation, I’m not about to lend any credence to this most recent UkroNazi psyop. Nor am I willing to extend the benefit of a doubt to our Western “leaders” or MSM, who have repeatedly disseminated this lame propaganda without the slightest scrutiny or hesitation.

    This one doesn’t even come close to passing the smell test. One day after the Russian troops left there were NO reports of bodies scattered about on Bucha’s streets. But one day after the Azov Nazis and SBU arrived to “clean up”, there were abundant bodies!

    The Azov regiment and other Banderite militias are notorious for this type of mayhem. Russia is NOT, though you’d never hear it from our MSM presstitutes. We are truly subjects of the Empire of Lies.

  22. Harout Antonian
    April 5, 2022 at 08:01

    Why block an investigation? The truth is the first casualty of war. This is nothing. The more Ukraine loses, the more the sanctions backfire, the more desperate western elites get, the bigger the lies, and ultimately a false flag chemical attack or worse. The west cannot accept the loss of economic supremacy. When I say the west I mean of course the full spectrum dominance pursuing USA. Perhaps we should be thankful that the dominance of the narrative is the only thing that the west is seeking so far. Yesterday, Bob Rae gave a talk at a college here about the genocide of the Uyghur in China. It took the United States over 100 years to accept the Armenian Genocide, and they only did it when it was politically expedient. An investigation is a must here, and until there is some evidence, I will remain highly skeptical of anything coming out of the western MSM.

  23. Robson_x
    April 5, 2022 at 07:36

    Furthermore, would not the Bucha families of the dead have removed their sons, brothers, fathers from the road once the Russians cleared out, rather than leaving them there for three days to rot—apparently not even turning the bodies over to identify them (as all appeared to be facedown)?

  24. N.Fryar
    April 5, 2022 at 07:24

    Western intelligence gathering services would surely have watched the Russian withdrawal using satellites and drones?
    This imagery would establish when the graves appeared.

  25. mgr
    April 5, 2022 at 06:50

    The only ones who fear a transparent and independent investigation into this are the ones who will lose from an accurate reckoning. So, who is demanding an independent investigation and who is trying to block that and rather prosecute these events based on hearsay and rumor? It’s easy enough to see who is standing for accuracy and transparency and who hoping for lies and hysteria.

    America, the EU and Nazis. Apparently, a match made in heaven. Just what do these bastions of democracy and liberal values expect to have left after their current performance? Do these leaders feel that their citizens will continue to follow them in their towering banality, or that the public will be reassured in the democratic institutions that these pinheads purport to represent and that they are gleefully undermining for personal short term advantage? Certainly not for long. So many Nero’s while the “new Rome” Western alliance burns. And the EU, in its abject stupidity has decided to go along with this. So incredibly incompetent they are that in the space of a few months and years they will bring the entire EU experiment to its knees. The EU’s leaders have completely betrayed their publics.

  26. Aaron
    April 5, 2022 at 05:47

    That chronology of events indicates that maybe this whole thing was fabricated and orchestrated as a false-flag event to draw NATO into the war, this is exactly what I feared. The mayor would have certainly been aware of such a dramatic massacre if it had happened, so his words and demeanor don’t match the media narrative.

    • Humwawa
      April 5, 2022 at 11:02

      They killed two birds with one stone: first they massacre Ukrainians sympathetic to the Russians, then they use the dead bodies of their victims as propaganda tool to mark Putin as a war criminal and monster who needs to be gotten rid of.

    • Bob - Enough
      April 5, 2022 at 12:15

      Yes, there are a few videos on “Brand New Tube” (and other sites) showing it was staged and included many crisis actors.

      Just found this, which was not how I envisaged (Paul Joseph Watson) would act, but = hxxps://brandnewtube.com/watch/bucha-massacre-false-flag-reporter-exposes-the-truth-behind-ukrainian-war-atrocities_Jwda5Z2GP4rpenm.html

      This was the one I was looking for, watch until 5 mins = hxxps://brandnewtube.com/watch/videos-prove-ukraine-has-launched-false-flags-against-russia_3jzpn6DoIw9IW86.html

      There are many more on the site if you are interested, just search Ukraine.

      PS Do you notice that most of the destroyed tanks DO NOT have the Russian “V” or “Z” on ????

  27. Stefano Guidoni
    April 5, 2022 at 04:55

    “The Azov Battalion may have perpetrated revenge killings against Russian collaborators, or the Russians carried out this massacre.”

    Or both, and the Ukrainians are blaming the Russians for all the killings. Maybe some killings are true and some are staged, and they are exaggerating the numbers and blaming it all on the Russians to bolster their dirty propaganda.

    However, in these cases, I have a simple rule of thumb that never failed me: look at who the dead were, to know who probably killed them and why. The Ukrainians authorities have not published the IDs of the deceased, so they are clearly hiding something and that smells fishy.

  28. Vera Gottlieb
    April 5, 2022 at 04:48

    Two wrongs don’t make one right…the US’ massacre at MyLai…

  29. jesika
    April 5, 2022 at 03:30

    And how does the town mayor first say it’s a “glorious day” after the Russians left, not mentioning the “massacre”, then tell CNN a few days later about the “massacre”? And how many bodies are there, videos are not very helpful that I saw, people are rushing to judgment in US as usual. And why does the UN refuse to investigate immediately? Too many questions in this media and video-driven day and age, it is easy to fool people

  30. Ian Perkins
    April 5, 2022 at 03:00

    Russian troops did not pull out in an incredible hurry. If they had been shooting civilians whose hands were tied, you’d think they’d have ‘tidied up’ after themselves, instead of leaving evidence of war crimes behind for all to see. Whereas anyone shooting ‘collaborators’ and ‘saboteurs’ would have had plenty of motive for leaving the corpses in the streets and blaming Russia.

  31. April 5, 2022 at 03:00

    Staged. Scripted. War theater. So many deaths and these are all we’ve been shown? Come ON! I expect dramatic music, screams, children, at least some pools of blood and some flesh of women showing – too much? I think the white strips of cloth for tying hands was weak – a military unit would have something far more secure for prisoners.

  32. April 5, 2022 at 00:49

    No doubt, this is set up continue the war in Ukraine indefinitely. It’s all too transparent. Always ask WHY, Why would Russia do this. Why would they smear their image in front of the entire world. Who gains most from these vicious allegations? Reminds me of MH 17 which was shot down by machine gun fire from a Ukrainian fighter jet.
    Also a false accusation from the Kiev fascist junta. This malicious regime has got to be removed from the planet.

    • Vera Gottlieb
      April 5, 2022 at 04:51

      The entire West in the Northern hemisphere is intoxicated with ‘Americanism’ and going deaf, dumb and blind. The imposed sanctions and no end to them will come back to hunt us like a boomerang. “Hegemony” knows no humanity…

    • Liam Rooney
      April 5, 2022 at 11:23

      Excllent points Comrade Van Meurs! ;-)

  33. peter
    April 5, 2022 at 00:36

    The skin still shows signs of blood flow due to cold weather (Pinkisk / Red) not deathly white from 3 – 4 days of blood draining from the body if left to bled out by gunshots. Plus a lack of blood pools from death by gunshot in place.
    And that video of the guy moving after the video truck passes seems to indicate it is likely a staged photo/video shoots.

    Also a bit too convenient in terms of spacing on the road, you would think if there was a massacre it would be in clusters and near housing or cover not relatively evenly spaced out.

    • Eddy
      April 5, 2022 at 05:24

      It is IMPERATIVE to establish the TIME of death by autopsy. This time line will verify whether the Ukrainians murdered these people, or the Russians.
      BUT, I will make a bet, no such autopsy will ever be allowed. Make your own conclusions from this.

    • R
      April 5, 2022 at 15:28

      yeah think through how when the first person was shot, all the other people on the street would run and hide….they all stayed out on the street after the first shots were fired? the staging is off…Needs to be in clusters, behind buildings and obstacles.

  34. Anon
    April 5, 2022 at 00:07

    Tnx Joe…
    As an American cit observant of secret incidents not beneficial2 average US cits recently occuring domestically, must be skeptical of similar overseas… GFloyd ethics anyone?

  35. John Zeigler
    April 4, 2022 at 21:57

    This seems to put too fine a point on the basic fact that it is Russia who has invaded and is levelling Ukraine. George W Bush was warned before the fateful entry into the Middle East debacle that the china shop rule applied–“If you break it, you buy it.” And after 20 years the U.S. learned, yet again, that no one wins at war. The U.S. was driven out of Vietnam, and like Russia, was driven out of Afghanistan. The U.S. wisely withdrew from an unwinnable situation in Syria, figuring the candle was not worth the penney. Russia has entered into that unholiest of places, again, and for its terrible choice must now own whatever happens in Ukraine within the awful parameters of the lawlessness of war.

    • Consortiumnews.com
      April 5, 2022 at 00:36

      US troops still occupy parts of Syria.

    • Eddy
      April 5, 2022 at 05:27

      The U.S. has NOT withdrawn from Syria. It still OCCUPIES ILLEGALLY territory of Syria and is STILL STEALING Syrian oil as well as bombing Syrian people’s . Where is the concern and condemnation for these war crimes against the Syrian people’s on a daily basis ? What makes the Ukrainians more valid than the Syrians ?????

    • Gene Poole
      April 5, 2022 at 05:32

      “for its terrible choice must now own whatever happens in Ukraine within the awful parameters of the lawlessness of war.”

      Fine. But as Americans, you and I own it too.

    • Dwight
      April 5, 2022 at 09:03

      Responsibility for results of unlawful war of aggression is a different legal question. The problem at hand is that this incident is being used as propaganda to prolong the war.

    • John Zeigler
      April 6, 2022 at 23:07

      The fog of war surrounds all of this, with conjecture and blame in abundance. As with unfolding events from any ongoing conflict, so much confusion dominates, and as with any war, competing interests will vie for first place in peoples’ thinking for years to come. All I know is we desperately need for the violence, bloodshed, and disruption of life to stop so people may begin to put their lives back into some semblance of order. All the shouting and finger pointing simply make one’s head hurt, and only add to the overall confusion.

  36. April 4, 2022 at 21:49

    “The Azov Battalion may have perpetrated revenge killings against Russian collaborators, or the Russians carried out this massacre.”, says the article. I just don’t see how the second stated possibility could be consistent with the reported facts.

    • Consortiumnews.com
      April 5, 2022 at 00:37

      It could be that the full extent of the horror was not known to the mayor at the time that he spoke or to The New York Times on Saturday.

      • Liam Rooney
        April 5, 2022 at 11:28

        Also, the mayor may be just spent 30 days in a basement after constant shelling. The initial relief could very well have minimized, temporarily, the impact of a dozen or so visible bodies.

  37. Robert Meichtry
    April 4, 2022 at 21:45

    Facebook now attaches a, “You should only follow links you trust. This link goes against our community standards” and asks the user, ” Do you still want to view it.”, before you can access the article. Sorry times.

    • Consortiumnews.com
      April 5, 2022 at 00:40

      It says it does NOT violate its community standards but warns that it’s a graphic image, which it is, but that the reader can proceed if he or she wants to.

      “Why this photo is covered

      This link doesn’t go against our Community Standards, but it may show graphic content.”

  38. Geoff Burns
    April 4, 2022 at 20:52

    It really is astounding how completely the MSM has promoted the propaganda, and how completely those who identify as Democrat, as I did for decades, have taken the bait. I am searching for a sliver of hope.

  39. Jimm
    April 4, 2022 at 20:51

    The latest news is video evidence of 2 Russian pilots in an Apache-like helicopter hovering far above the streets of Bucha. They eye up a small group of civilians going about their business in the already shattered neighborhood and then request permission to shoot. The response from their commanders was “light em all up, keep shooting – keep shooting”. A short time later with the shredded bodies oozing in the street a black SUV truck comes to the aid of the wounded. Pilot again requests permission to engage. Permission to engage is granted again. “Oh yeah, look at that, right through the windshield!” “Ha, ha”. “Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards!” “Nice”. In the end there were 11 civilians dead including children and 2 Reuters journalists.

    If this actually happened in this manner it would be all over the MSM and the person responsible for releasing the video would rightfully be praised. Bottom line, the west bathes in dishonesty, corruption, and hypocrisy. As Caitlin has said many times over, they have no credibility.

    Thanks Joe Lauria.

    • James Simpson
      April 5, 2022 at 04:12

      So what did happen to the person who released that video of US pilots shooting up civilians? Oh yes, he’s in HMP Belmarsh.

    • Eddy
      April 5, 2022 at 05:30

      You are referring to Assange’s release of this war crime committed by none other than the U.S. of A. the perpetrators of which still roam freely around the World today, whilst Assange is locked up in solitary.

    • InnerCynic
      April 5, 2022 at 06:12

      Thanks for reminding people. The hypocrisy of the Americans knows no bounds.

      • Nika
        April 5, 2022 at 09:07

        Bucha appeared at the moment when the world began to learn that Nazi organizations were in the ranks of the Ukrainian army. This is not only Azov. It is also Aidar, Dnipro, MKU, supporting radical forms of racism and misanthropy. they practice a cult of murder. Bucha is reminiscent of the scenario in Romania, Serbia, Syria. The scenario of “the use of chemical weapons by the Russians” may soon be expected. More “victims of Russian terror” will be revealed, because it is necessary to hide the traces of the monstrous facts committed by the Ukrainian Nazis. One of them is a “library” – a prison and a torture chamber at the Mariupol airport.

    • Liam Rooney
      April 5, 2022 at 11:32

      I agree that that incident was a very well documented war crime, and I agree that those pilots should be charged and punished, along with any other Americans or allies who commit war crimes. But that incident certainly does not give Russian troops and Vladimar Putin the benefit of the doubt on their brutality, let alone a pass.

    • Blessthebeasts
      April 6, 2022 at 11:02

      April 5 is the anniversary of the day “Collateral Murder” was published.

  40. Allan Millard
    April 4, 2022 at 19:53

    As I recall the stories of gas attacks in Syria they all happened after Obama said that the use of chemical weapons was his “red line”. Independent investigations by the likes of Seymour Hersh, Robert fisk, and others did not link any attack to the Syrian regime but, on the contrary, found evidence -the actual cannisters, among other things – that pointed to the rebels. It made sense that the regime would not cross the redline when it, with Russian help, was methodically gaining ground and pushing the rebels to Idlib Province.

    The parallel with Ukraine is, of course, not exact, but we do have President Zelenskyy running around, still, trying to get NATO into the picture. Is he calculating that if the military and humanitarian angles won’t work a moral outrage will? I wouldn’t rule it out, and I would not rule out that Zelenskyy is practising willful blindness. Without evidence I would not accuse him of being complcit, but he is in a desperate existential bind (over Donbas, Crimea, and neutrality) and might use anything he can get his hands on to weaken Russia at the negotiating table.It is clear from the outrage we have seen already in our gullible media that the Bucha massacre is meant to be the new red line.

    Thanks to Lauria and Consortium News for what I hope is the impetus for an impartial investigation. If there is official obstruction for such an investigation that should tip the balance towards Ukrainian guilt. Whichever way the balance tips, the damage is done in “the West” and Russia will wear the horns on this for all time. The MSM will never admit error, or gullibility.

    • Stephen Sivonda
      April 4, 2022 at 23:13

      Yes,, Zelensky , the weasel coward . One week into the start I thought he could end it all by resigning and telling the citizens to let the Russians clean out the Nazis and Azov . It would be very interesting to have all his communications with the US regarding WHAT actions to take. Early on there was the West sending huge amounts of rifles to arm the people so THEY could fight the invaders. That coward was all right with that …. one picture I saw had a white haired old lady lying on the ground with several others learning how to fire that rifle. Now all the talk about Putin and War Crimes….. the EU hypocrites always bend to the US orders.. we are the purveyors of death The records stand. Iraq , Afghanistan. Syria, Libya, et-al. Then Biden, Obama, Bush-2 and H.W. Bush . What about the “War Crimes” they directed? Never is it mentioned about the Yemenis ….with starving young children and the US selling them jets and bombs to decimate the Yemenis . The U.N. is useless….is there not anyone there brave enough to call out the hypocracy ?

    • John
      April 5, 2022 at 02:55

      Good analysis. Zelensky is an American puppet. He’s doing whatever USA is telling him to do to demonize Russia. My goodness I hope they’re not serious about getting us into a hot war with Russia. The mainstream media is nauseating.

    • Margaret O'Brien
      April 5, 2022 at 05:56

      I never believe it’s a case of media gullibility when they report that the “baddies” in any war, did something bad. They must know this narrative doesn’t stack up, but it fits with the “Us goodies, them baddies” which they always pump out in all these wars. Frankly it’s so childish, so ludicrous, especially after all the lies pumped out by the corporate media that one surely needs a childlike mind to fall for it, but millions do. The only explanation I can come up with is it’s comforting for people to believe that we in the west are better, more civilised than those nasty foreigners.

  41. Varenik
    April 4, 2022 at 19:44

    and this is the warning I got following the link from FB post :
    You should only go to links you trust
    The link you tried to go to does not follow our Community Standards: hxxps://consortiumnews.com/2022/04/04/questions-abound-about-bucha-massacre/?fbclid=IwAR0lWQjMEIuJX8S8NruQDdarUqvzwbeLwpTK9e2rpJdy8qbvCQ307SoL2XI

    Are you sure you want to follow this link?

    • Consortiumnews.com
      April 5, 2022 at 00:56

      It says it does NOT violate its community standards but warns that it’s a graphic image, which it is, but that the reader can proceed if he or she wants to.

      “Why this photo is covered

      This link doesn’t go against our Community Standards, but it may show graphic content.”

  42. Guy St Hilaire
    April 4, 2022 at 19:34

    For what it’s worth , as it is only my word of same,but from a source close to the action , I have seen a video ,of Russian POWs ,lying in the street bleeding to death after being shot by Ukrainian soldiers ,if one could call them that ,to shoot people in cold blood because they were the so cold enemy .In the video you can see one of the bleeding soldiers lying on the pavement , still alive and a nazi , as that best describes what I believe him to be , to pump a few shots into the bleeding Russian soldier to finish him off .I would supply the link but it is very graphic and I can’t transport it from the site directly .The general public will in all likelihood be exposed to this video as it is scalding proof of war crimes regarding POWs from the so called Ukrainian side .This from a Euro nation .
    I watched it once and that was enough and I don’t know where in Ukraine this happened at this time .
    My links are “Xoaquin Flores-New Resistance” also shown on “Mint Press News Community”.
    I am asking CN moderators to please post my comment as the truth must come out as we are being inundated with lies and misinformation from our regular MSM . Thank you .

    • Eddy
      April 5, 2022 at 05:35

      You are dead right. I too saw this video. However, the good news is, Russia has caught the perpetrators of this event, and they are singing as loud as they can, to incriminate their fellow Nazis. Good news, that means they will also be temporarily on this planet.

  43. H.J.Schmid
    April 4, 2022 at 19:20

    The logical thing to do for the Ukrainian government and/or NATO at this point would be, to bring in an international comission of forensic experts to investigate the case and present hard proof on the accusations of a war crime committed by Russian troops. The first and foremost question to be answered would be the time of death of those victims. This is a routine task and the timeframe of the events is such, that it could be decided with absolute certainty, which of the two groups, the Russian army or the Ukrainian “Special Police” was present when those people were killed. The simple fact, that no investigation is taking place is tantamount to an admission of guilt by the Ukrainian side.
    It also really says a lot about the total moral depravity, the hypochrisy and cynicism of Western media and Western polititians, that they never even seem to feel the need to bother about the presentation of the slightest tangible evidence to the public on the veracity of their severe accusations against Russia, in spite of the most minimal means necessairy in this case, but instead directly call for severe punishment, ranging from still more economic sanctions to a full frontal military attack, in other words unleashing World War III .
    This very much is like a déjà-vu from the war in Syria where the infamous “White Helmets”, puppets of NATO, armed and trained by the Western alliance, much like the Nazi militias of Ukraine, would routinely kill dozens of innocent civilians, to use their corpses as props for the production of some staged “Chemical attack by the Assad regime” propaganda video that would then be seen simultaneously in tv news all over Europe and America to rile up public opinion against an “evil/crazy dictator”. The parallels to the recent event are certainly striking and it would not surprise me the least if at some point proof is discovered that the order to murder some 300+ Ukrainians, to throw the corpses out into the streets and finally produce some grisly video footage of the carnage, had come directly from NATO HQ.

    • Eddy
      April 5, 2022 at 05:41

      Good post. However it concerns me greatly, that besides myself, you are the only other person I’ve seen on any site anywhere, suggesting that autopsy’s are neccessary to establish the time of death. This would very quickly, establish who is responsible, if the times contradict the Russian alibi, that when they left, there were no bodies lying around. BUT, I believe, no such investigation will ever be allowed by the Ukrainians, as the results would demolish their narrative. These bodies will quickly disappear and never be seen or heard of again. I support every word you’ve written. Well done.

      • evelync
        April 5, 2022 at 08:02

        Scott Ritter called for a forensic team to go to Bucha to get to the bottom of what happened.
        Please see: Duran, Alexander Mercouris and Alex Christoforou interview Scott Ritter on 4/4/22
        hxxps://youtu.be/SN7o-ThhFfY
        At about minute 52:15 Mercouris asks Ritter about Bucha – towards the end of Scott’s comments, at around minuet 104 he mentions that the senior prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Kareem Kahn, is in Ukraine with an investigative team and should go to Bucha before the crime scene is disturbed.

    • InnerCynic
      April 5, 2022 at 06:14

      The UK just so happened to block a request by Russia at the UN for an investigation. Now why would they do such a thing?

    • Martin - Swedish citizen
      April 5, 2022 at 06:17

      Thank you CN for this necessary article about this atrocity and HJ Schmid for this important comment! I think you are probably right that forensic experts could determine the time of the killings with enough certainty if dispatched without delay, and obviously statements to confirm this from forensic experts would be very important (for the reasons you mention), not to speak, of course, of examinations in place.

    • Humwawa
      April 5, 2022 at 15:37

      “The logical thing to do for the Ukrainian government and/or NATO at this point would be, to bring in an international comission of forensic experts to investigate the case and present hard proof on the accusations of a war crime committed by Russian troops.”

      True, the case could be quickly solved by an independent inquiry; however, that is not what Ukraine/Nato are interested in. The sole purpose of these allegations is to vilify Putin and the Russians to prepare the Western public for war. The average Joe does not want to go to war. For a democratic government to get the electorate to back a war it has to stir up hatred and outrage about alleged crimes committed by foreign monsters that have to be slain.

      That is how Gilgamesh killed Humbaba 5,000 years ago. Nothing has changed since then. Humbaba was portrayed as a monster that needed to be killed because it didn’t worship the gods of the city or Ur. In reality, Humbaba was no monster; he was the loving guardian of the forest.

    • Guy St Hilaire
      April 5, 2022 at 17:15

      A point that has not been mentioned is that all the Ukrainian people people that wanted to go to Russia via safety routes etc. were identifying themselves with white arm bands wrapped on one of their arms .For anyone that has watched the corps left on the street in Bucha ,one can clearly see one individual with the white arm band .Now why would the Russian army shoot someone that displays sympathy towards them ? It beggars belief !

  44. CNfan
    April 4, 2022 at 19:14

    Thank you Joe for doing actual reporting.

    The situation in Bucha looks to me like the aftermath of a standard Asov brigade action in Donbass – massacred civilians and scorched earth destruction of infrastructure. All of which suggests to me yet another tiresome false flag operation by our political “leaders”, and flogged by their media cheerleaders, all obeying their war profiteering mafia bosses behind the curtain.

  45. Ray Peterson
    April 4, 2022 at 18:57

    Where is Julian Assange and WikiLeaks when the world needs
    to hear honest accurate reporting? Oh, that’s right, he’s in UK’s maximum
    security prison, so the U.S. and it’s CIA serpent may soon torture him
    here at home.
    Ukraine’s Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion learned their lessons well from
    America’s CIA: slaughter your own, then scream bloody murder
    that your enemy did it and Western media will always patriotically
    defend its military.

  46. KC
    April 4, 2022 at 18:52

    Just saw, on CNN, the mayor of Bucha, Anatellii Ferdoruk, accuse the Russian military of slaughtering Bucha citizens. Your thoughts JL.

    • Consortiumnews.com
      April 5, 2022 at 00:48

      No need to be snarky. It was already laid out in the article. You must have missed it. It says it’s possible the mayor was not aware of the full extent of the horror when he spoke. Did he give any evidence that Russia did it? And if so what is it?

  47. Dwight
    April 4, 2022 at 18:51

    What does the NY Times think is proven by “the discarded packaging of a Russian military ration was lying beside one man who had been shot in the head”? They imply it suggests a Russian soldier dropped it in the process of killing the person at close range, but this strikes me as implausible, and one could just as easily speculate as to other scenarios.

    • JohnA
      April 5, 2022 at 03:20

      To me, it implies the Russians were provided emergency food rations to the local inhabitants. The person had collected this and then been shot by Azov as a ‘collaborator’ rather than someone hungry and desperate for food.

      • Humwawa
        April 5, 2022 at 15:41

        That’s spot on. Being caught with anything Russian in these times is probably reason enough to get killed by Azov fighters.

  48. Paul Spencer
    April 4, 2022 at 18:21

    Note the white rags binding the hands of the victims in the second picture. White armbands were suggested by the RF soldiers for folks there to signify that they were not out and about to cause trouble during the occupation. Looks like some guys left them on a little too long, perhaps.

    Also, note that all of the dead are guys who look to be within the age limits of the conscription order by Zelenskiy. How did they avoid conscription? Russian prisoners of war, perhaps?

  49. Barry Kissin
    April 4, 2022 at 18:00

    Let’s not rush to judgement? In the meantime, yet another basis for demonizing Russia and escalating the conflict with no off ramp is being trumpeted by politicians and mainstream media in the U.S. and around the world.

    This story of yet another war crime must immediately and strenuously be challenged. I have rushed to my own judgement. If the Russian army committed a massacre in Bucha, the Mayor of Bucha would not be saying the day after the Russian army withdrew that it was a glorious day. The Mayor would have known there was such a massacre and would have been proclaiming it, certainly by the day after Russia withdrew. If the Russian army committed a massacre, the N.Y. Times reporting from Bucha would not be referring to six dead civilians whose cause of death cannot be “verified.” And yes the Azov Battalion does stage Russian war crimes and does engage in killing Ukrainian “accomplices of Russian forces,” which is what the Town Council’s representative meant by “cleansing.”

    I just sent another donation to Consortium News in gratitude for your prompt gathering of key facts about Ukraine happenings. I caution against soft-pedaling. Truly, we are in an information war. Judgements must be made as soon as the evidence warrants.

  50. chupacabra
    April 4, 2022 at 17:45

    There is a video on youtube that shows Ukrainian National Police (spetsnaz of Ukrainian National Police) entering Bucha and re-taking it. No corpses on the streets. Local civilians talk to the Ukrainian spetsnaz but do not report any extrajudicial repressions against civilians, one local was afraid he would be shot but Russians just talked to him and let him go (he had some ultranationalist connections). Ukrainian forces do not report any civilian bodies at all during that April 2 clean up operation – not in that video not in their Facebook post (I have not read it personally but I have watched the video).

    You can find it by searching “???? – ???????? ????? ??? ????????? ????????????????? ???????????? ???????.”

    Also there is a video of the corpses’ examination – no mortis rigor (after 3-4 days you would expect it), no locals recognizing the corpses either. Very strange. I claim no perfect knowledge of the situation, just adding to the evidence-based conversation on this important issue. An objective investigation should take place before assigning blame.

    • R
      April 5, 2022 at 15:33

      Its this one: hxxps://www.npu.gov.ua/news/stoprussia/speczpriznachenczi-naczpolicziji-rozpochali-zachistku-mista-bucha/

      The video is at the bottom of that page. No mention of dead bodies everywhere in the text, photos or video. But they DO mention a “cleansing” operation for Russian collaborators.

      Azov arrived in town April 01. How obvious can this be?

  51. April 4, 2022 at 17:34

    Thank you Joe for providing some sanity. The latest in Ukraine now is that this will prevent Zelensky from agreeing to a peaceful solution with Russia – something that the nazis would like.
    I find this whole ugly event absolutely terrifying, largely because it seems that the entire western world (i.e. all of Europe and North America) have complete idiots at the head of their governments. Not one of them apparently has said or done anything even remotely sensible. I am forced to conclude that the entire “civilized” world that we inhabit is ruled by complete idiots who are incapable of critical thinking. And now the EU is going to “investigate” – right! We all know that anything they come up with is fore- ordained to be blamed on Russia. God help us all (assuming there is one).

  52. ScienceABC123
    April 4, 2022 at 17:29

    The information for/against this being the Russian’s doing is UNVERIFIED. A proper investigation by a trusted and unaligned party is needed.

    • April 5, 2022 at 04:31

      YES! We need to know the identity of the victims, time of death, weapons used. But they’re already burying the bodies. Won’t be easy. Guterres said, “It is essential that an independent investigation leads to effective accountability.” Can the UN still organize an investigation? Does it need a mandate from the Security Council or General Assembly? or can Guterres just order it?

      • dave
        April 5, 2022 at 14:26

        “But they’re already burying the bodies destroying the evidence.”

        ^ There. Fixed that for you! ;)

    • Humwawa
      April 5, 2022 at 15:51

      Don’t hold your breath. After 8 years, the shootings of the 2014 Maidan coup still have not been fully investigated. Following the coup and the ouster of the elected president, the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party was given 4 minister posts and the job of prosecutor general in recognition of their role in overthrowing the president and to cover up the killings by sabotaging the investigation.

  53. SteveK9
    April 4, 2022 at 17:21

    When the Ukrainians moved back in, they killed what they considered collaborators, white armbands and Russian emergency rations on the corpses. Joe, after Syria, you don’t really have any doubts … do you?

  54. robert e williamson jr
    April 4, 2022 at 17:18

    Here we go again! My money is on the fascist, they seem to be everywhere you look, with more on the way.

    Things there must be going as planned for everyone who involved themselves in this shit show. We have the fascists calling the fascists, fascists.

    A win, win, win for the . . .uh . . . the fascist . . . uh . . . no the Ukrainians . . . er, . . I mean the American fascist.

    Sorry, I could not help myself!

    Take a break and smoke em, if ya got em, this could take a while.

    Thanks CN

  55. jaycee
    April 4, 2022 at 17:06

    The absence of an alleged massacre for 2-3 days after Russian withdrawal, confirmed by the mayor’s video and the report of the photojournalist who did a walk-around with Ukraine soldiers, should invite skepticism rather than credulity and yet… The lack of any reports of shootings, bodies strewn on the ground, mass roundups of civilians, or a makeshift graveyard next to a prominent church, despite the continuing availability of internet and social media access also confirms the phantom nature of this event. The rapid and seemingly coordinated dissemination of information and images referring to “the massacre” all at once 2-3 days after the point it must have been otherwise obvious – this points to an “op”. It is very much like the false flag efforts in Syria, but of far more serious potential consequence.

  56. Tristan Patterson
    April 4, 2022 at 16:49

    NYT is currently showing satellite images of the time line showing bodies on the road before the Russians pulled out. Thoughts Joe?

    • Joe B
      April 4, 2022 at 17:35

      If such photos are not tampered, such bodies would likely be militia or plainclothes soldiers.
      Civilian deaths would not likely be all men and all in the street. But we await any real evidence.

    • David A Hart
      April 4, 2022 at 19:06

      The Russian military lived in this town for the past month. Why would they suddenly kill civilians are the way out of town? What advantage would there be for that action? Who benefits from this massacre? Russia? Ukraine? I think you know the answer.

    • Kalen
      April 4, 2022 at 20:59

      Link please.

      Russians called UNSC meeting for investigation. UK. Blocked it. Who is afraid of Russian investigation and evidences they gathered including air and satellite images from Various sources likely showing Ukrainian involvement in this event. The fact that it was a massacre was not established, when and where they were killed was not establish. Who was actually killed Residents of the City or not, why they were no bury in backyards by relatives living nearby at it happened in Mariupol constantly under fire ? Western propaganda calls for EHRC to investigate while Ukrainians started no criminal forensic investigation to establish critical facts. It may be that some of victims are Russian POW and those accused of sabotage or spying not local residents killed by Azov military who openly call for killing Russian traitors. Such a fact would ruin Ukrainian another propaganda house of cards after fake staged. Mariupol hospital bombing.

      NYT is not trustworthy, a tool of neocons, cheered every US war of aggression. Smeared dead Malcolm X and MLK just after they were assassinated.

    • Robin M.
      April 5, 2022 at 00:27

      The bodies in the NYT article are mostly on Yablonska Street. These people were probably killed by Ukrainian mortar fire.

      hxxps://twitter.com/antiwar_soldier/status/1511086358110027791

      hxxps://www.donbass-insider.com/2022/04/04/ukraine-the-massacre-of-bucha-a-ukrainian-timisoara/

  57. forceOfHabit
    April 4, 2022 at 16:26

    “A rush to judgment is dangerous, with irresponsible talk of the U.S. directly fighting Russia. But it is a rush to judgment that we are getting.”

    Either way there was a massacre. A thorough investigation is definitely called for. The Russians have tried to call an emergency meeting but so far that request has been denied (by the UK, currently president of the UNSC). The prospect of WWIII based on a lie is terrifying.

    • Tim N
      April 5, 2022 at 10:26

      Either way there was a massacre? Says who?

  58. Philip Reed
    April 4, 2022 at 16:07

    Hopefully this will be impartially investigated but I’m not holding my breath. This rush to judgment is indicative of the MH17 outcries and the “ impartial “ investigation “ by Dutch and Ukrainian officials. Even the Malaysian PM was skeptical of that investigation.
    I understand Joe is being cautious and prudent in his judgment assessment for obvious reasons of credibility but the hallmarks of false flag deception are all over atrocious discovery. In over a month of conflict who realistically stands to gain in the PR war also being fought. Not Russia.That’s a certainty.

    • Kalen
      April 5, 2022 at 09:00

      Interestingly similarity as in case of MH17 in Donbas in 2014 Pentagon (via Reuters) yesterday said that they cannot confirm or deny scenario of alleged Bucha atrocities accusations against Russia by Ukrainian government. It is very telling as US provide continuing tactical coverage of Russian troops movements for AFU command so they know what happened, so do Russians.

      What it likely means that US satellite images proved Ukrainians were involved in the event and US, like in MH17 case, refused to reveal incriminating evidences against Kiev Nazi regime.

  59. jack johnson
    April 4, 2022 at 15:38

    The last thing the Azov Battalion wants is for the war to end. They threatened Zalenskyy with his life if he negotiated an end to the war. They killed a negotiator that went to Belarus early in the conflict…..they deemed him a traitor and shot him down.

    I believe nothing that comes out of Ukraine and that goes double whenever Azov`s are involved.

  60. Sam F
    April 4, 2022 at 15:16

    This certainly looks like a western setup.
    Nothing could be less advantageous for Russia.
    Now we need to see exactly who was killed, and what their relatives and friends think.
    If the US/Ukraine are responsible, we will never know that, but then we will know the truth.

    • Dennis
      April 4, 2022 at 19:19

      cover up

  61. pedro
    April 4, 2022 at 14:48

    Thank goodness for your work and CN. The US (“the West”) propaganda noise machine is cranked up so loud I hope it blows a gasket. It’s brutal on independent thinkers so articles like this, and continuing real journalism is saving sanity. Their propaganda barrage is like gulf of tonkin, yellow cake, WMD and “we didn’t destroy the Kunduz hospital” rolled up into one toxic burrito and I wont eat it.

  62. alley cat
    April 4, 2022 at 14:34

    “This guy is brutal, and what’s happening in Bucha is outrageous, and everyone’s seen it. I think it’s a war crime.”

    How very convenient for Sleepy Joe, his neocon lackeys, and their demonization campaign. It’s amazing how unexplained provocations and atrocities magically materialize whenever U.S. warmongers need a moral imperative for another war.

    Remember the Gulf of Tonkin, WMD, Gouta, Khan Shaykhun, and Douma, to name just a few of the most infamous iterations of U.S. false flag attacks.

    Notice how the U.S. yellow press and a howling lynch mob of Russophobes immediately swung into action, as if on cue.

    The key issues are the same as in any criminal investigation: who had motive (cui bono?) and opportunity?

    As for motive: the Russian military has been taking heavier casualties than expected in an attempt to avoid harming civilians. The most counterproductive thing Russians could do would be to deliberately slaughter Ukrainian civilians. The Zelensky regime, on the other hand, desperately seeks to provoke NATO intervention in order to turn the tide of the war.

    Opportunity: apparently the Russians were nowhere near Bucha when this massacre took place.

    Of course no neocon warmonger worth his salt is going to let the truth stand in the way of U.S. world conquest.

    • Guy St Hilaire
      April 4, 2022 at 20:04

      How so very well said . I do believe that we are witnessing a changing of the guards as the saying goes and their might very well be much gnashing of teeth in the process. A well aware group of contributors on this CN site .I would contribute more often if I could monetarily .

      • alley cat
        April 5, 2022 at 05:46

        “I would contribute more often if I could monetarily.”

        What matters most is that you read CN and are therefore innoculated against war hysteria, the deadliest of all diseases known to humanity.

  63. Altruist
    April 4, 2022 at 14:26

    Snap judgment followed by immediate sentencing without waiting for any kind of investigation is redolent of the “gas attacks” in Syria, which later turned out to have been staged. There, like here, extremists with a motive were present (there, the Islamists, here the Azov nationalists). Of course this doesn’t prove that the Russians didn’t do it, on the other hand, there doesn’t appear to be smoking gun evidence that they did do it, and it certainly would be good as Joe Lauria says to have an impartial investigation. But our propagandists rather want a rush to judgment, based on a visceral emotional response.

    • Andrew Nichols
      April 4, 2022 at 17:02

      The most complete propaganda war I have ever seen.

      • Geoff Burns
        April 4, 2022 at 20:50

        It really is astounding how completely the MSM has promoted the propaganda, and how completely those who identify as Democrat, as I did for decades, have taken the bait. I am searching for a sliver of hope.

      • Drew Hunkins
        April 5, 2022 at 23:53

        It sure is. Nothing has ever reached this level. Hopefully in its outright brazenness it inadvertently wakes some people up to the lies and deceit.

      • J Frederick
        April 6, 2022 at 13:55

        Amen to that. It is truly breathtaking in it’s scope and intensity.

  64. pedro
    April 4, 2022 at 13:32

    Thank goodness for your work and CN. The US (“the West”) propaganda noise machine is cranked up so loud I hope it blows a gasket. It’s brutal on independent thinkers so articles like this, and continuing real journalism is saving sanity. This is like gulf of tonkin, yellow cake, WMD and “we didn’t destroy the Kunduz hospital” rolled up into one toxic burrito and I wont eat it.

  65. Reinhold W. Rausch
    April 4, 2022 at 13:20

    The dead have dry clothes – yet it rained in the days after Russaians have left

    • jo6pac
      April 4, 2022 at 17:11

      Yes then others their skin is pink instead of white. It looks like this another white helmets type fake. The west is winning the fake news war but losing the real war.

    • April 4, 2022 at 20:52

      That would explain the absence of pooled and dried blood. The rain washed it away or the bodies were brought from somewhere else.

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