WATCH: CN Live! Kim Dotcom, Bill Binney, Mike Gravel Episode 4

Mike Gravel discusses this week’s Democratic debates he was shut out of; plus CN Live!‘s interview with Kim Dotcom on the DNC and Podesta leaks, and who leaked them, is dissected by Bill Binney, former  NSA technical director.

The fourth episode of CN Live!, featured former U.S. Senator Mike Gravel, discussing this week’s Democratic Party debates that he was prevented from joining despite meeting the DNC requirements; and internet entrepreneur Kim Dotcom on the DNC and Podesta emails and how they got to WikiLeaks. Kim’s interview, taped earlier in New Zealand, was aired here for the first time, and was analyzed by Bill Binney, the former National Security Agency technical director. All on CN Live! with hosts Elizabeth Vos and Joe Lauria, with post-game analysis by George Szamuely. Executive Producer: Cathy Vogan. Technician: Ebon Kim. Watch it here:



54 comments for “WATCH: CN Live! Kim Dotcom, Bill Binney, Mike Gravel Episode 4

  1. August 10, 2019 at 12:49

    Isikoff is a CIA asset who interviewed me for 2 hours and invented the Russia hoax from my report “shell game” (

    , Epstein’s suicide should be a debate topic to expose the Mossad and it’s use of pedophilia to entrapand control US Congress members

  2. August 10, 2019 at 02:00
  3. August 8, 2019 at 14:12

    It’s very clear that Mike Gravel has endorsed both Bernie and Tulsi, but the kids running his Campaign are deceptively trying to imply otherwise. They are posting and emailing the Bernie endorsement, and suppressing the Tulsi endorsement. You need to get the Senator back on your show. I don’t think he understands quite yet how treacherous they are being.

  4. TK
    August 7, 2019 at 19:33

    This article claimed to refute Kim Dotcom in 2017, in light of what Kim says now, how does it hold up? Non-technical person asking and I had found this persuasive.

    • hetro
      August 8, 2019 at 16:50

      This analysis from May 2017 is seriously out of date according to recent discussion here at CN. First it assumes the answer has been found on the leaks as the work of Russian influence, or a hack. There is no discussion of this matter, so you need to check into VIPS analysis, specifically via Bill Binney. See the most recent CN Live broadcast. Second, it does not consider what discussion here has been emphasizing regarding the Rich family’s motives for denying the Kim dot com story i.e. as a need for protection. It also uses the term “conspiracy” in an ah hah gotcha sort of way as though its own assertion of Russian responsibility is NOT a conspiracy theory. In other words, the warning marks of more brainwashing from this notorious laundry-land of propaganda are all over the piece. Recommended: listen to the recent CN Live discussions.

    • August 10, 2019 at 07:56

      WAPO is knot friendly or a reliable source-


  5. Danny Weil
    August 6, 2019 at 20:29

    The technical problems and the length renders this whole two and a half hours unappealing to most people

  6. August 6, 2019 at 12:01

    Thank you. This was really interesting and illuminating. As a computer professional I much appreciated the explanations of what occurred by Kim Dotcom.

  7. bob browning
    August 6, 2019 at 10:43

    great guests and discussions. Still we will only get a few soft convictions at most- the elite protect themselves.

  8. August 5, 2019 at 15:23

    Dear Joe and CN-staff,
    This has been a really great piece of journalism, thanks a lot! I donated.

  9. Armen Gabrielian
    August 4, 2019 at 22:24

    Bernie calls it “corporate socialism” which is much better than “Republican socialism.”

  10. Armen Gabrielian
    August 4, 2019 at 22:21

    Bernie calls it “corporate socialism” which is more accurate. It is better than “Republican socialism.”

  11. cjonsson1
    August 4, 2019 at 16:13

    George and Joe,
    Something regarding finding out about Seth’s murder and the DNC hacking, you are hoping that Bill Barr will continue to follow the evidence right in front of him, and find out what happened. You say that we often get close to learning the truth and it is denied and or hidden from us for years and years.
    Have you considered that Donald Trump could be protecting the Clintons? I have heard that they are still friends. The Clintons also could be blackmailing Trump, their favorite thing to do. Disappearing witnesses and evidence are continuing characters in their nefarious history. They always escape punishment.

  12. cjonsson1
    August 4, 2019 at 16:05

    Bill Binney,

    You were talking about the NSA finding something to destroy Eliot Spitzer when he was about to catch Wall Street bankers’ mortgage fraud. I have something to add to that. From what I remember, Roger Stone tracked and caught Eliot Spitzer in his secret meetings with a prostitute. Stone was associated with Breitbart News and published the scandal, taking down Spitzer.

  13. WildBill
    August 4, 2019 at 10:11

    Another great episode. Always intriguing and thought provoking. I again watched to the end. Interesting how an in depth conversation with someone leaves me with a markedly different impression from the one formed by the coverage (and lack thereof) of main stream media. Always good to hear Mike Gravel’s fresh and acute commentary. His search for the mute button makes me chuckle.

  14. geeyp
    August 4, 2019 at 05:19

    Great to hear Kim speak in unhurried, calm tones regarding these issues. Usually when I’ve heard him it always, as with so many conversations, seems pressed for time (at least for me). The slow relaxed conversation and explanation were great. This episode of CN Live has garnered attention elsewhere such as in the comments section. Many mentions and I thought you would like to know they are all positive. Of course, I can’t have enough of William and Mike as I feel kinship with them. Truthtellers all!

  15. countykerry
    August 4, 2019 at 00:24

    What a great public service CN Live is….keeping us truly informed, with knowledgeable people who are truth tellers, looking forward to next Friday as well. Thank you very much !

  16. Ruth
    August 3, 2019 at 20:28

    It seems to me that the Rich family was threatened. Seth’s brother could be the next target if they say anything or want it investigated. Imagine if you have other children, one was just murdered by the very people who are threatening more sorrow should one come forward…

  17. Skip Scott
    August 3, 2019 at 16:31

    One aspect that puzzles me is the talk of the possibility of emailing the DNC leaks via a zip file, and how this wouldn’t change the metadata showing it was initially loaded onto an external storage device. While this would be true, wouldn’t it have been scooped up by the NSA at that point? Wouldn’t that change NSA’s “medium” confidence that it was the Russians(meaning they don’t have evidence) into absolute “confidence” in knowing the source was not the Russians, and who the actual source was?

    • hetro
      August 4, 2019 at 14:10

      The point I was trying to make below is that, according to Binney’s remarks, the NSA indeed knows all and would have the information you refer to. His argument for that is that the NSA surveils everything. Thus Clapper was consistent with his “least untruthful truth” excuse by saying “moderate” (or medium) assessment. He couldn’t say “low” which would be the truth; and “moderate” is not as untruthful as “high,” as stated by the others. Ergo: we are looking at another con job on the lines of the WMD of 03 confirmed.

  18. John Puma
    August 3, 2019 at 11:55

    The DNC did NOT do voter fraud. They did ELECTION FRAUD … please every misstatement of this sort only gives
    more reason, as if any is needed, for suppression of the individual voter.

  19. Truth
    August 3, 2019 at 10:47

    Tulsi is the only non totally corrupt dnc to run since JFK!. People who only use convenient partial truth see anyone who runs against the establishment as confused. 1st you must break all association with official establishment and fake news, then reality will begin to permeate your mind.
    The often promoted false premise of” fear of instability” has always been used to aid in maintain established corruption. Generally by those who have been succesfull in working within in it. Such as Media and those who have or wish to progress in the current system.

    These ancient psycological self delusions only serve to increase corruption.
    Wake up, and realize your weakness is part of the problem!

    • hetro
      August 4, 2019 at 14:18

      Another way to look at this is how skittish we are, generally, to appearances. It would be unreasonable to think Tulsi is “a Zionist tool” based on what we know of her so far. I for one have not heard her view of why her recent vote on the BDS matter, and would like to hear why she voted as she did. Is she aligned with Gravel’s view of a one-state solution for the Palestine mess, and that’s why? My point is: people today are so fed up and angry they’re vulnerable to jumping the gun on appearances instead of thoroughly checking things out. This doesn’t make them adolescent or weak. It’s a confusing time.

  20. truth
    August 3, 2019 at 10:37

    wont play on my windows 10 here

  21. Sharon Crawford
    August 3, 2019 at 09:32

    Bless Bill Binney and his nuggets. He is a gift that keeps on giving.

  22. Dave Ross
    August 3, 2019 at 07:10

    Please do a story with the tweets said to check and where they go in the timeline. He says they prove he had prior knowledge that Wikileaks was about to get the emails.

  23. John Puma
    August 3, 2019 at 07:04

    Biden is not “merely” a political Neandethal but, rather, a bona fide political monster, notwithstanding
    the harmless boob externals.

  24. John Puma
    August 3, 2019 at 06:57

    The deaths of 500,000 Iraqi kids due to the 1990-2003 sanctions should be compared to US military deaths in WWII: 292,131 in battle, 407,100 total.

    Those are figures that US persons still notice.

  25. John Puma
    August 3, 2019 at 03:57

    Note: Re Sen Gravel’s comment on the Iraq sanctions: he inferred that said sanctions of mass destruction (clear war crimes, as are all the many similar that have followed against many countries) were imposed “before the Iraq war,” in reference to the 2003 invasion. This is an error, unfortunately common, and I have kept quite busy correcting those who should know better who continue to make it.

    Yes, the majority of the deaths caused by said sanctions occurred during the Clinton administration,
    however they were started before the start of Pappy Bush’s (1991) Iraq war and were still in effect when
    George “the profoundly impaired” Bush II’s invasion in 2003.

  26. August 2, 2019 at 23:48

    I like Binney’s idea of choosing Congress by randomly picking names from the telephone. The fancy name for that is sortition.

    • Marko
      August 3, 2019 at 22:09

      “I like Binney’s idea of choosing Congress by randomly picking names from the telephone. The fancy name for that is sortition.”

      Common people might call it ” we might get lucky , for a change “.

  27. Marko
    August 2, 2019 at 22:47

    The danger from the NSA’s standpoint is that they reveal the content and then subsequent information coming from a different source reveals what the platform was. Now everyone knows that platform is not secure , ruining the NSA’s day.

  28. hetro
    August 2, 2019 at 22:01

    Another strong session, demanding as it is to keep up. A suggestion: follow-through with what you think were the highlights of the entire discussion. A set of notes to refer to.

    Also make the videos easily accessible (highlighted) on the site with commentary from CN on them as to key points established. The problem with all the commenting and multifarious topics is how wind-driven into oblivion much of the discussion becomes. This is not a criticism–suggestion only.

    For me, one outstanding moment in this broadcast was Binney’s comments on the ICA of January 6, 2017. As we have discussed many times, that moment was very grave amidst a flurry of hysteria and people like Michael Moore talking about leaving the country because Trump had won the election. The Russia-gate fabrication had been underway for some time and was gathering force as “the narrative.”

    We then received three “assessments.” As part of these assessments we were told in the fine print that they were not based on evidence. They were in short, as we then had this translated, “guesses.” What particularly struck me was the divergence in these brainwashing canards they were put out on January 6 2017.

    Comey at FBI rated “high” the likelihood of Trump colluding with the Russians; this despite the paucity of his research, based entirely on Crowdstrike, a Clinton-funded source; Brennan (CIA) also rated the collusion at “high” and we now know he was dedicated to the Steele Dossier as his primary source; Clapper, however, came in with the assessment “moderate.”

    At the time I thought this is the Clapper who was famous for his lying under oath and then defending himself with he had spoken “the least untruthful truth.” Was he now maybe coming straight for once?

    We now know from Binney that the NSA knew and knows damn well at this time it wasn’t a hack; this “moderate” in itself indicates the truth–it was a leak.

    Why? Because the NSA has ubiquitous coverage on this matter. It has to know.

    Mr. Barr? We’re waiting.

  29. ML
    August 2, 2019 at 21:55

    Thanks for another great show. To Kim, thank you for speaking up. My advice, don’t ever travel to the U.S.A. – I don’t trust the bastards to keep any promise they would make to you regarding immunity. To Mr. Binney, your brilliance in the world of cryptology has been vital in debunking the Russiagate boloney, so my deep thanks to you, sir. To the fabulous Mike Gravel, I am sorry you didn’t make the debate stage, but please do share with your friend Tulsi Gabbard, your strategy to hit back at the Republicans’ debasing of “Democratic socialism” with their own brand of socialism for the rich and connected. Your strategy just might work to keep their pejorative comments from having an all-encompassing deleterious effect on small “d” democratic debate on the issue. Keep on thriving, Mike.

  30. August 2, 2019 at 17:56

    A sanctuary for the informed…This is the best one yet…Looking forward to more…Thank You…

  31. Marko
    August 2, 2019 at 16:53

    “Sources and methods” could be a legitimate blanket excuse for the refusal to release some or all of the 32 pages of Seth Rich communications. Suppose that those communications were done using a platform that is believed to be secure by terrorists , hackers, and other criminals to this day , when in reality the government has real time access to those coms , through backdoors , advanced decryption capabilities , etc. The NSA wouldn’t want the bad guys to know this , lest they then switch to some other platform that IS , in fact , still secure, and it could be legitimately argued that allowing this knowledge of “sources and methods” to escape would pose a threat to national security.

    • hetro
      August 2, 2019 at 21:31

      Why would the platform need to be revealed as well as what is revealed in the contents of the communications? Could this excuse be over-ridden in court if the materials reveal criminal activity?

      • August 2, 2019 at 22:46

        The danger from the NSA’s standpoint is that they reveal the content and then subsequent information coming from a different source reveals what the platform was. Now everyone knows that platform is not secure , ruining the NSA’s day.

  32. CtHorsefarmer
    August 2, 2019 at 16:52

    Who’s to say that SR didn’t have a thumb drive on him and that is what was stolen?

  33. Marko
    August 2, 2019 at 16:40

    I’ve never seen a story that chases its own tail to zero effect like the Seth Rich story.

    Kim Dotcom said he put “Panda” , presumably Seth Rich , in contact with a third party who could help him with the release since Kim didn’t want to get involved. Did it occur to Joe to ask who that person was? Did it occur to Dotcom to ask that person if it was OK to release his identity ? Was that person connected to DCLeaks ? Why does everyone discount or ignore the possible role of DCLeaks in the Seth Rich leaks ? While Guccifer 2.0 has been shown to be a fraud , and probably a deep state plant , to my knowledge no such discrediting of DCLeaks as a potentially involved intermediary has been put forward , except for the illegitimate claim that they were “da Russians”.

    So now in addition to Binney , Joe Lauria now places his hopes in Trump and Bill Barr. I’m sure they’re hot on the trail of the 9/11 perpetrators as well , with the help of Rudy Giuliani , no doubt.

    False hope springs eternal , as someone said.

    • hetro
      August 2, 2019 at 21:40

      I think this comment highlights the essential conflict in views in terms of a) you’re a pie-in-the-sky optimist for hoping Barr will have the integrity to pursue the information and force NSA to disclose it; and b) indications in the current court system indicate some judges at least have had enough of the crap and will be going forward into indictments.

      There is also a problem as George on CN Live indicated with Trump being weak and backing off possible disclosures, when heavily pressured on “national security.” The irony being that disclosure to finally trash the Russia-gate brainwashing favors national security; clinging to it threatens it.

      I’m hoping we do not have to wait 40 years before the truth is as plain as what we’ve learned about all the lying of the last sixty years or so.

  34. August 2, 2019 at 16:35

    So what would be the impact of Julian acknowledging that Seth was a source? The Deep State would just claim he was lying to protect “the Russians”, and the MSM would all echo this mindlessly.

    • Marko
      August 2, 2019 at 18:00

      The impact comes when you add it to other , independent claims that Seth Rich was involved , including Kim Dotcom , John Mark Dougan , and perhaps others. If each of these people , and others like Craig Murray , would state explicitly what they know and provide whatever documentation they might have , you could probably put together an airtight case for Rich’s involvement. Instead , we get hints. Lots and lots of hints.

    • hetro
      August 2, 2019 at 21:43

      What I learned in today’s broadcast is that this matter is much more complicated than I was aware of. If there were additional persons to Seth Rich involved in the leaks, who are still very much alive, that could be a reason for Assange’s awkward position on this matter. Most important: the information was disclosed via leak; not hack; and the NSA knows damn well this is the case.

      • SteveK9
        August 3, 2019 at 16:24


        ‘Ms. Rattner said Mr. Assange told her that Seth Rich and his brother, Aaron, were responsible for releasing the DNC emails to Wikileaks. Ms. Rattner said Mr. Assange wanted the information relayed to Seth’s parents, as it might explain the motive for Seth’s murder.’

        Aaron Rich is apparently alive. Joe Lauria is very familiar with this angle. I would think that this could be a reason for Seth Rich’s parents to want to hush everything up. But, I know nothing of course. I was surprised this did not come up in the discussion.

    • Jill
      August 3, 2019 at 11:34


      I agree that no matter what Assange says, the MSM will somehow insert Russia into any and all information he provides. Due to source protection Assange may not be able to say anything more than he already has. Still, knowing who leaked those e-mails, and there is a lot of evidence showing that it was Seth Rich, matters. Why?

      First, there is the matter of a young person’s life being taken. Seth’s murder isn’t even being investigated. That is evil and it remains evil whether he leaked the e-mails or not.

      Secondly, there is a lot of information in process of coming out to the public right now. I think we can see how scared this is making powerful people by their commissioning of lame, panicked hit pieces against Assange in varies MSM forums. Although I see that many people simply aren’t open to new information, that isn’t true of everyone. The information coming out shows not only that Russiagate is a lie, it was actually a deliberate lie of the powerful to cover up their own wrongdoing. Understanding this is really important. The truth always matters.

      The more people who come forward, the more difficult it will be to make the refrain “you’re a Russian agent” stick.

      Finally, I just want to add a personal observation– that Kim’s telling that the source had an e-mail of “panda” makes the DNC bike rack memorial for Seth Rich even more chilling. Here is what it says: “…Friend to all, including Panda who left us too soon”.

  35. Ben Wah
    August 2, 2019 at 16:33

    Does Bill Binney have a website? A Twitter? An email address? I have a couple of questions for him.

  36. August 2, 2019 at 16:13

    Bill Binney: good point about Elliot Spitzer being targeted because of his banking investigation.
    Elizabeth: good point about Assange protecting a 3rd party, especially as Kim Dotcom indicates that the e-mail tampering was likely to involve someone more technically knowledgeable.

  37. August 2, 2019 at 15:28

    Very pleased that Elizabeth Vos clarifies that the download speed argument pertains to Guccifer 2.0, rather than the exfiltration of the DNC emails published by Wikileaks. In other words, for this (and a number of additional reasons) we know that the Deep State is lying its ass off in its narrative of how Wikileaks got those emails – implying that their assurances about Russian hacking are garbage – but we still don’t know precisely how those emails got to Wikileaks.

    Binney has shown recently, most (though not all) of those DNC Wikileaks were passed through a thumbdrive before publication – but we don’t know where that transfer occurred.

    • P. Michael Garber
      August 3, 2019 at 21:52

      I appreciated her clarification as well because I had the same misconception. The significance of this to me is, well, Guccifer 2.0 looks like CIA, so much so even a former technical director of the nsa is saying so publicly(!), and now it turns out the document Guccifer published could not have been acquired remotely, only through direct physical access. So it seems like Guccifer either obtained it from someone with direct physical access, or had direct physical access him or herself. And then there’s the interesting aspect that the “stolen” document is, if anything, more embarrassing to Trump than Clinton. The CIA publishing documents stolen by someone with direct access to dnc computers seems like a significant story.

  38. Antonio Costa
    August 2, 2019 at 14:32

    Tulsi is a very flawed candidate who has been all over the place regarding the Iranian deal and Israel. Her rhetoric has changed somewhat since running. She even said she was for BDS, and then voted against BDS.

    We’ve seen this equivocation time and again. Just because she made a splash going after Harris is not a reason to not be very skeptical.

    • subhuti37
      August 3, 2019 at 00:51

      Totally agree! Unlike General Smedley Butler who repudiated his service in the military as a muscle man for Wall Street, Gabbard keeps making her participation in these wars sound virtuous. She also voted for this military budget which even Gravel criticized the Democrats for supporting with their votes. The LEAST Gabbard could have done was make a floor speech voicing her opposition and voting against it.

      She is criticized for meeting Assad, but not criticized for meeting the major funders of Zionist political manipulation, and she does not support BDS.

      She talks about the suffering of the US soldiers whom she had to treat but she apparently didn’t see much of what suffering they were causing, which got them shot at in the first place. “What the Hell am I doing taking orders from these generals and politicians?” Apparently never asked. My prediction is that if she were to become president, her deep military programming would kick in and she’d keep following orders, just like the anti War Obama, Bush and Trump did.

      She is criticized for being a Russian bot, when her own webpage spouts the same lies about Russian that the Ukrainian NeoNazis put out. Her actions also punish Russia for things like the fake story of Russian meddling.

      A careful assessment of what she says and what she does shows a split. She kind of reminds one of the character in the remake of The Manchurian Candidate, with Meryl Streep and Denzel Washington. Where people are mindcontrolled by the US government to be moles for the military, while proclaiming more acceptable progressive policies.

      The only consolation is that while she is on the stage, she will raise anti Establishment issues. But Gravel himself is the only politician to have really taken on the Establishment. Except for the Kennedy’s, Paul Wellstone, and other premature dying politicians.

    • Janet Masleid
      August 3, 2019 at 17:12

      IMO, Tulsi Gabbard knows what she’s doing. If we ever need someone on the geopolitical stage who might actually make a difference it will be a complex individual like Representative Gabbard. If we ever need someone to go toe-to-toe with Nikki Haley (God forbid) it will only be Tulsi Gabbard.

  39. MS
    August 2, 2019 at 09:15

    Question for Bill
    What happened to “Bigger Than Snowden” web site

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