Congress Weighs Indefinite Detention of Americans

A Senate bill under consideration could allow Donald Trump to indefinitely jail American citizens without charge if they oppose U.S. military action, says Marjorie Cohn.

By Marjorie Cohn

Under the guise of exercising supervisory power over the president’s ability to use military force, Congress is considering writing Donald Trump a blank check to indefinitely detain U.S. citizens with no criminal charges. Alarmingly, this legislation could permit the president to lock up Americans who dissent against U.S. military policy.

The bill that risks conveying this power to the president is the broad new Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), S.J.Res.59, that is pending in Congress. Senate Foreign Relations Committee chair Bob Corker (R-TN) and Democratic committee member Tim Kaine (VA) introduced the bipartisan bill on April 16, and it has four additional co-sponsors.

This proposed 2018 AUMF would replace the 2001 AUMF that Congress gave George W. Bush after the September 11 attacks. Although the 2001 AUMF authorized the president to use “all necessary and appropriate force” only against individuals and groups responsible for the 9/11 attacks, three presidents have relied on it to justify at least 37 military operations in 14 countries, many of them unrelated to 9/11.

But the 2018 AUMF would codify presidential power to make war whenever and wherever he chooses.

S.J.Res.59 allows the president “to use all necessary and appropriate force” against Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Libya and Somalia, al-Qaeda, ISIS (also known as Daesh), the Taliban and their “associated forces” anywhere in the world, without limitation.

Kaine: Introduced bi-partisan bill. (Photo from US Department of Education)

However, the bill contains no definition of “co-belligerent.” A president may conceivably claim that a U.S. citizen who writes, speaks out or demonstrates against U.S. military action is a “co-belligerent” and lock him or her up indefinitely without charge. “Associated forces” is defined as “any organization, person, or force, other than a sovereign nation, that the President determines has entered the fight alongside and is a co-belligerent with al Qaeda, the Taliban, or ISIS, in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners.”

Under the new AUMF, the president could tell Congress he wants to use force against additional countries or “associated forces” that are not listed in the bill. It would put the burden on Congress to say no by a two-thirds vote, a virtually impossible margin to achieve in the current political climate.

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights — a treaty the United States has ratified, making it part of U.S. law under the Constitution’s Supremacy Clause — forbids arbitrary detention without charge.

Supreme Court Has Not Ruled on It

Nevertheless, in the 2004 case of Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, the Supreme Court upheld the enemy combatant designation of U.S. citizen Yaser Hamdi, who had been apprehended in Afghanistan in 2001. But the Court limited its holding to people fighting against U.S. forces in Afghanistan, and did not include the broader “war on terrorism.”

The Court also stated that U.S. citizens held as enemy combatants must be provided due process to contest the factual basis for their detention before a neutral decision maker.

The Supreme Court has not ruled on whether a U.S. citizen who is apprehended in the United States can be detained indefinitely. It declined to decide the case of José Padilla, who was arrested at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport in 2002 and held in military custody as an enemy combatant by the Bush administration, relying on the 2001 AUMF.

The Court ruled that Padilla’s habeas corpuspetition was mistakenly filed in New York instead of South Carolina. Justice Sandra Day O’Connor wrote for the Court’s plurality, “We have long since made clear that a state of war is not a blank check for the President when it comes to the rights of the Nation’s citizens,” adding, “even the war power does not remove constitutional limitations safeguarding essential liberties.”

Criminal charges were eventually brought against Padilla in 2005. He had been held in isolation for more than three years and tortured while in custody.

Padilla: American held without charge.

Padilla was tried and convicted in 2007 of conspiracy charges and providing material support to terrorism, and sentenced to 17 years imprisonment. In 2014, his sentence was increased to 21 years. Meanwhile, the Fourth Circuit and the Second Circuit U.S. Courts of Appeal came to opposite conclusions about whether an American citizen apprehended on U.S. soil could be held indefinitely as an enemy combatant.

“John Doe” is another American citizen detained by the U.S. government. In September 2017, the U.S.-Saudi citizen was named an enemy combatant for allegedly fighting for ISIS and has been held in military custody in Iraq ever since. Although the 2001 AUMF never mentioned ISIS, the government used it as a basis to detain Doe. In April, the Department of Defense attempted to transfer Doe to Saudi Arabia and avoid a judicial ruling in the case, but a federal judge in Doe v. Mattis blocked the move.

It is not clear how passage of the proposed 2018 AUMF would affect Doe’s case.

Does AUMF Permit Indefinite Detention?

There is a 1971 U.S. statute that says, “No citizen shall be imprisoned or otherwise detained by the United States except pursuant to an Act of Congress.” An AUMF is an Act of Congress.

Another Act of Congress is the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2012 (NDAA). Relying on the 2001 AUMF, the 2012 NDAA purported to codify the president’s authority to hold U.S. citizens in military custody indefinitely.

Section 1021 of the NDAA says, “Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.”

When he signed the NDAA, Barack Obama declared in a signing statement that section 1021 does not “limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force,” pledging that “my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens.”

Obama’s statement implied that while a president does have the power to indefinitely detain Americans, he chose not to exercise that power.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) supported the NDAA, stating that it would “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield,” adding that people could be held without charge by the military, “American citizen or not.”

Hedges et al. v. Obama

Hedges: With others sued Obama to protect speech. (Flicker theNerdPatrol)

Chris Hedges, Noam Chomsky, Daniel Ellsberg, and other human rights activists and journalists sued Barack Obama and the U.S. government in January 2012, claiming the 2012 NDAA would have a chilling effect on their freedom of speech because they could be arrested. A federal district court judge found section 1021(b)(2) unconstitutional and in May 2012 issued a permanent injunction prohibiting the government from relying on it.

But the Second Circuit Court of Appeals lifted the injunction in July 2013, stating that section 1021 of the NDAA “has no bearing on the government’s authority to detain American citizen plaintiffs” because “Section 1021 simply says nothing about the government’s authority to detain citizens.” The Supreme Court refused to hear the case in April 2014, letting the Second Circuit’s ruling stand.

Nothing in the 2018 AUMF would prevent the president from adding an American organization or individual to the list set forth in the bill, according to Christopher Anders of the ACLU.

The 2018 AUMF has no expiration date. Every four years, the president would be required to give Congress a proposal to repeal, modify or maintain the authorization. Once again, it puts the onus on Congress, by a two-thirds majority, to take contrary action.

S.J.Res.59 may not make it to the floor of the Senate and/or the House. Congress has thus far resisted enacting a new AUMF that could be seen in any way to limit the president’s military authority.

Ironically, however, the enactment of this new 2018 AUMF could both enshrine the president’s unlimited power to wage war and also provide the president with a basis for indefinitely detaining U.S. citizens in military custody without criminal charges.

If this bill were to pass, it would imperil our right to speak out and challenge whatever military adventures the president decides to undertake.

Copyright, TruthoutReprinted with permission.

Marjorie Cohn is professor emerita at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, former president of the National Lawyers Guild, deputy secretary general of the International Association of Democratic Lawyers and an advisory board member of Veterans for Peace. The second, updated edition of her book, Drones and Targeted Killing: Legal, Moral, and Geopolitical Issues, was published in November. Visit her website: MarjorieCohn.com. Follow her on Twitter: @MarjorieCohn.

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102 comments for “Congress Weighs Indefinite Detention of Americans

  1. May 17, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    I am ashamed that my Sen Corker is a co-sponsor of this bill designed to silence the free speech of law abiding Americans. This is tyranny at its worst. An atrocity against the Constitution. How dare the Congress even consider such a bill. I will protest this bill and I will protest any military action I believe to be a violation of human rights wherever such action is entered into.

  2. Northern Observer
    May 16, 2018 at 12:36 pm

    If we were serious we would find them as illegal combatants in the field of operations and execute by US military firing squad. In cases like Padilla, prosecutors should also seek Treason charges and ask for death penalty verdicts from juries. As the case of American Taliban shows, redemption which is the entire purpose of the imprisonment model pioneered by the Quakers is simply not possible for holy warriors. We should not confuse these men for citizens who have made a mistake. They are gone over to the other side in ways we moderns have trouble imagining and yet they have gone over into a category of human expression and behavior that can not be reasoned with or rehabilitated. Judicially sound death penalty is the kindest mercy in these cases.

  3. John Hansen
    May 15, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    Indefinite detention without charges is always totalitarian. Always. If someone has committed an act worthy of death then kill him or her. But no indefinite detention.

  4. Eileen Kuch
    May 14, 2018 at 11:21 pm

    Detaining U.S. citizens w/o charges violates the 5th and 6th Amendments to the Constitution. Congress, the Chief Executive, and the Courts know very well that American citizens cannot be held indefinitely w/o charges being filed for specific crimes. Justice Sandra Day O’Connor stated in her brief that, “We have long since made clear that the state of war isn’t a blank check for the President when it comes to the rights of the Nation’s citizens,” adding, “even the war power doesn’t remove Constitutional limitations safeguarding essential liberties”.
    The Supreme Court hasn’t ruled on whether a U.S. citizen who is apprehended in the United States can be detained indefinitely. It declined to decide in the case of Jose Padilla, who was arrested at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport in 2002 and held in military custody as an enemy combatant by the Bush Administration, relying on the 2001 AUMF.
    The Court ruled that Padilla’s habeas corpus petition was mistakenly filed in New York instead of South Carolina. Sandra Day O’Connor wrote for the plurality, ” We have long since made clear that a state of war isn’t a blank check for the President when it comes to the rights of the Nation’s citizens,” adding, “even the war power doesn’t remove Constitutional limitations safeguarding essential liberties.”
    Padilla should’ve never been turned over to the military to be detained in solitary confinement and tortured. This act was not only a violation of the 5th and 6th Amendments, the use of solitary confinement and torture violated the 8th Amendment. Instead, he should’ve been charged and given access to a defense attorney.
    Congress must avoid weighing indefinite detention of American citizens on American soil. This would, indeed, be a gross violation of the Constitution. We all must remember, the United States is a Republic, not a Democracy, and, certainly, not a dictatorship. Its Constitution’s the Law of the Land.

    de

  5. Zhu
    May 14, 2018 at 6:44 pm

    People like to complain that this or that administration is “communist” or “fascist” and think that all will be well after the next election or the next quantum leap in evolution. Meanwhile, we drift in to something resembling “Dirty War” Argentina. Most go along because they’ve no choice. Staying out of the homeless shelter is their (our) first priority.

  6. Graham Cracker
    May 14, 2018 at 11:11 am

    It’s been overdue to dismantle this foreign Bank owned government of the Corporations, by the Corporations and for the Corporations.

  7. Garrett Connelly
    May 14, 2018 at 9:07 am

    Attempting to fit a quart in a half pint jar won’t work. Humanity is riding accelerating evolution just as it rides accelerating cosmic expansion.

    Each conversation sparks new ideas that spread as accelerating dialectic analysis of pirates called capitalists. Sure, US capitalists can direct the Cia and Ice to brainwash poor people into killing poor people in distant neighborhoods. Then north America will be pristine and empty with plenty of space for oligarchs and their weirdo golf colonies.

    Meanwhile; the overpopulated world will move in and fill the vacuum, after they gleefully guillotine the golfers.

  8. Darkwing
    May 14, 2018 at 8:37 am

    Welcome to the US of A police state, click your heels, raise your right hand and yell “Seig Heil, Mien Fuhrer Trump”

  9. Stephen Lakios
    May 14, 2018 at 5:35 am

    What happened to the USA’s Constitution? This sounds like we already have a totalitarianism country. I have a feeling; Trump’s wall is to imprison citizens of the USA.

    • Auntie Semite
      May 14, 2018 at 5:49 am

      This is exactly what Dave Hodges is starting to think as well…!
      Gun owners, Patriots and Militias; prepare! It’s ‘wait and see’ time!
      I voted for Trump, but this appears to be a Deep State back-door influence unless;
      Trump is going to use this very law to go after the Deep State / Secret Government / Secret Societies and the corrupt ilk currently in government.

  10. Auntie Semite
    May 14, 2018 at 5:31 am

    This is EXACTLY the similar legislation that Josef Goebbels penned in 1936!
    The Red terror did the same in 1923,…!
    Call your Congress Critter ASAP and DEMAND that they vote NO for this hideous inhumane act / law that clearly violates Human Rights on an International Scale.
    If YOU have ever been questioned about your political beliefs by the State, now is the time to pack a bug-out bag, and try & get a second Passport.
    Sell off / auction off that which you don’t need, keep the cash, & be prepared to get out of Dodge for somewhere off U.S. soil!!!

  11. J. Decker
    May 14, 2018 at 5:13 am

    Andrew Lobaczewski was born in Poland in 1921 and eventually was able to publish “Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes” http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1897244258/howardssystem-20

    Lobaczewski’s argument begins:
    • The vast majority of humans, who he refers to as “normal,” are genetically endowed and neurologically wired with the capacity for empathetic and just ethical behavior.
    • Some humans, who he calls “pathological” (throughout this piece we will use pathological as shorthand for psychopathological), have either genetically inherited or acquired – usually through exposure to other pathological people, especially during childhood – deviations leading to psychopathy or personality disorders (or, as Lobaczewski refers to them, characteropathies). These medical disorders can affect them in a holistic way, influencing the very core of their perception, thought, character, values and conscience, and lead to a reduction in or lack of capacity for empathy and just ethical behavior. Thus, pathological people may routinely carry out manipulative, harmful or destructive acts against others.
    • In any human society, the pathological will likely make up somewhere between 4 and 9% of the population.
    • The division between the normal and the pathological represents a profound and fundamental split within humanity.

    For those who have not been directly and intimately exposed to extremely pathological people, it may be difficult to even fathom what these conditions are truly like and just how they can, sometimes without a clear physical mechanism, inflict mental and emotional trauma on others. For the rest of us who have been, to some degree, affected, defense mechanisms and pathological optimism often reinforce blindness to our own ignorance in these areas.

    And, much to the delight of the pathological, normal people are all commonly distracted from focusing on this most important human division as we instead divide ourselves based on far less important criteria such as race, gender and nationality.

    • ElizaB
      May 16, 2018 at 11:21 am

      They are real. I have had to deal, in my life, with two of them. One was the manager of the small newspaper where I worked. It takes awhile to “pin it down,” for a “normal” person, because it is so “unbelievable.” But after several incidents and due to the fact that the staff was small and consisted of smart, observant people, we finally did identify the man as “crazy.” Within a year, every single one of us who met (offsite) that day to discuss our plight had found other work (or not) and left that place. The “slyness” or “foxiness” of this guy made any confrontation and/or defeating of him impossible. I was having nightmares and feeling sick while preparing to go to work in the mornings. I was often out of the office and dreaded, always, going back into it. After we employees got together and compared notes, we realized that he was expert at sowing dissent among us, which is what often makes it so difficult to deal with these sickos.

      I was delighted when I found “Political Ponerology.org web site and followed it up with additional reading.

      The American Psychiatric Assoc. refuses to recognize this as a mental disease, but still insists on terming narcissim, psychopathy and sociopathy as “personality disorders.” So far as I have been able to determine it is due to certain parts of the brain being dysfunctional, and there is no cure. Most of the psychopaths studied are criminals such as serial killers, because they are the only ones who are “in captivity.” Trust me, however small a population they may be, that population is growing and they walk among us; and many have elevated/bullied themselves to positions of great power in our government and economic “leadership.” How could Bibi and Ivanka and bunches of IDF soldiers slaughter tens of Palestinians at the same time they gather before cameras to open an embassy building to glorious words of celebration? That’s how!

  12. exiled off mainstreet
    May 14, 2018 at 1:01 am

    The fact this is even being considered is because yankee courts have totally abdicated applying the constitution against regime excesses. State secret exemptions to constitutional requirements and the refusal to follow the fourth and fifth amendments reveal that the rule of law no longer obtains in the yankee imperium.

    • ElizaB
      May 16, 2018 at 11:31 am

      The U.S. Constitution was effectively suspended within hours of the events of 9/11, while GWB was being flown around the U.S. in an airplane, under guard. He was returned to a “new world.” I recollect his lamenting that he couldn’t be a dictator. I suspect that’s because the dictator was Dick Cheney, who appointed himself as VP under the auspices of G.H.W. Bush. Now, one of Cheney’s warmongering minions is our National Security Advisor. The psycopaths are now so confident in their control that they are no longer afraid of exposing themselves.

  13. Dick Tater
    May 14, 2018 at 12:53 am

    That would be yet another Trump campaign promise broken. The right to free speech is unalienable. Any such law is moot and entirely anti-American.

    That moot action would reduce the US to a communist dictatorship, not a chance — that’s not what we voted for.

    And, we know the only faction at the helm of oppressing America’s free speech is the “Jewish”/”Jesuit” lobbies, and all that information is readily available if you have the pre-requisite history and knowledge to grasp the web of it all accurately.

    Those lobbies are criminal factions, the “secret societies” JFK warned us about before they assassinated him for exposing them and their Operation Northwoods and entrenched political corruption.

    We The People thoroughly rejected “globalism” on 11/8/16 — we voted for Trump’s message to make America great again and to drain the swamp, not satisfy the whims of a radical lobby Trump did a 180 with on America he surrounding himself with the radicalized megalomaniacs known as …the swamp, they attacking the Middle East unprovoked — all that equates election fraud, high treason, and war crimes.

    And, all that explains the panic in congress, they’ve been busted cold perpetrating high treason and war crimes.

    We The People won’t stand for that act of high treason nor any war on America’s sacred unalienable right to free speech, free speech *is* America and yah can’t take that away, ever.

    Pound sound you war mongers, you are being exposed and impeached.

    And, for you the well researched…Trump’s uncle took the Tesla papers and the WTC was taken down with a Tesla device on 9/11 tying Trump directly to the 9/11 attack, shocking.

    • Garrett Connelly
      May 14, 2018 at 8:45 am

      Capitalist dictatorship. The US has a capitalist government supporting rich pirate oligarchs who vet candidates to parade for representative democracy.

  14. Peppermint
    May 13, 2018 at 11:17 pm

    There’s a sick feeling in my stomach after reading this article. I’m reminded of the Martin Niemoller quote, “First they came for the socialists…”
    We all know how that ended…

  15. mike k
    May 13, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    Why do fascist states like America always build more prisons? To keep people from waking up to their crimes, my dear. They want to make you afraid. Of what, you may ask? Of knowing and spreading the truth, my dear.

    • mike k
      May 13, 2018 at 10:34 pm

      Why is a prison cell waiting for Julian Assange? For telling the truth. Liars hate people who tell the truth, it makes them look bad.

      • Auntie Semite
        May 14, 2018 at 5:34 am

        When reporting a criminal act is treated as committing a crime, then we are ruled by criminals!

        • Garrett Connelly
          May 14, 2018 at 8:47 am

          The US has been ruled by criminals since George Washington helped overthrow the revolutionary articles of confederation.

          • Zhu
            May 14, 2018 at 6:46 pm

            Since the Puritans decided to exterminate “the devil’s children.”

    • john wilson
      May 14, 2018 at 4:26 am

      I read some years ago from some kind of conspiracy outfit that the US was building huge detention camps for citizens who challenged the state. At the time I thought it was rather silly, but now it looks like I was the silly one.

      • ElizaB
        May 16, 2018 at 11:45 am

        I don’t know whether any have been built, but you might want to locate a copy of the NDAA for FY 2007 to find authorization for “contracting for rapid build-out and staffing” of such facilities as would hold up to 5000 individuals, as needed for emmigration or other undefined “emergencies.” NDAA is hard to reasearch, but it IS there.

  16. Zhu Ba Jie
    May 13, 2018 at 9:56 pm

    Most Americans will say that only “other people, bad people” will be affected.

    • Abby
      May 13, 2018 at 11:44 pm

      They are the same people who blew off the FISA bill when it first came out that Bush had been spying on us. I’m sure you remember “I have nothing to hide so if this helps us catch bad guys then I’m okay with it.”? They easily blew off their 4th amendment right to be secure in their homes and I was appalled. They refused to look at the ways that it could come back to bite them. Now with the Amazon Echo and Google being able to spy on people who bought those devices, they could plant false evidence on people’s computers, phones, etc. George Orwell was very prescient in his thinking, wasn’t he?

      Awe, good ole Kaine, Hillary’s pick for VP is certainly showing us that he is does not have our best interests in mind.

      This provision in the AUMF would go quite well with the new legislation that states are passing that makes protesting illegal. This would be a very dangerous thing to have happen.

      • Auntie Semite
        May 14, 2018 at 5:55 am

        The Militias, Patriots, Gun Owners, Oathkeepers and Veterans are ALL now well aware of this horrific encompassing of spy powers and devices.
        Get your equipment together, check it for long-term serviceability, and meet only in person.
        Write down questions / answers on paper, then destroy the paper!

        • Zhu
          May 14, 2018 at 6:49 pm

          They won’t do anything good. At most, they’d be adept at murdering annoying neighbors.

        • Robert Bruce
          May 27, 2018 at 12:34 am

          Only thing to do to survive is get the hell outta here!!!!!!!!

  17. Jeff
    May 13, 2018 at 7:02 pm

    It’s remarkable how prescient George Lukas was 40 years ago. In the original Star Wars, the Death Star commander says that the Emperor has swept away the last remnants of the old republic. We (i.e. the Death Star) will be the ultimate force in the universe. Darth Vader warns him Don’t be too proud of this technological terror you have constructed, it is nothing compared to The Force. All you have to do is replace the Emperor with the Cheeto in chief and the US military for the death star. Sadly, democracy does not replace The Force. And thus we are screwed.

    • Zhu Ba Jie
      May 13, 2018 at 9:57 pm

      Bush = Augustus, Obama = Tiberias, Trump = Caligula.

      • Auntie Semite
        May 14, 2018 at 5:59 am

        Caligula was Bill Clinton, Caligulaette was Hillary!
        “I won’t trust lie detector results anymore, hahahaha” Hillary laughing about a 12 y/o being raped while she served as defense attorney for the rapist!
        “We came, we saw, he died! hahahahaha” Hillary laughing about the Bankster-paid assassination of Libya’s Qadafi murdered without trial by the lynch mob
        “What difference does it make!” Hillary on the deaths of the Libyan Consulate.

        • Mork D
          May 14, 2018 at 10:59 am

          Poignant commentary on someone who has absolutely zero say in today’s political climate. But I guess she’s always going to be an easy right wing punching bag.

    • mike k
      May 13, 2018 at 10:38 pm

      Real democracy is an aspect of the Force. All that we know is false, corrupted democracy. But you know that Jeff…..just sayin………

  18. Pocomotion
    May 13, 2018 at 4:03 pm

    America the EU and other western-leaning nations are in the throws of Bolshevism. Study Russia to see how that worked out.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6p1zxKnDeM

    This will not end well, imho.

    • Auntie Semite
      May 14, 2018 at 6:01 am

      Look up Holodomor and see who was REALLY responsible for the deaths of 65 million Russians post-1917 Revolution.
      Look up Russia Insider News under their History section, and read about who and what devised the Red Terror…

  19. Robertsgt40
    May 13, 2018 at 3:53 pm

    Put me on top of the list. I’m a Vietnam vet.

  20. Michael McNulty
    May 13, 2018 at 3:42 pm

    I often say the next Nazis to rule the world won’t be speaking German, they’ll speak English with an American accent. Looks like they’re here.

    • Paul G.
      May 13, 2018 at 10:02 pm

      And as Huey Long said, they will wrap themselves in the flag.

      • Mork D
        May 14, 2018 at 11:01 am

        I can’t remember exactly who it was, but it WASN’T Huey Long. Long was Trump before Trump, a slick-talking fake populist huckster only interested in his own fame and fortune. He would have gladly wrapped himself in the flag.

    • Auntie Semite
      May 14, 2018 at 6:03 am

      EXACTLY! The Bush Family are from Nazi Germany circa 1930’s and GHW Bush is photographed with Otto Skorzeny and Josef mengele.
      The Bush’s name in Germany was Sherff prior to arriving in America.
      Look it up on-line.
      That is why the Republicans never questioned or challenged Obama’s nationality.

  21. May 13, 2018 at 3:24 pm

    Absolutely terrifying.

    The constitution is being shredded.

  22. May 13, 2018 at 2:01 pm

    Banger, you bring to mind George Carlin’s line: “They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

    • F. G. Sanford
      May 13, 2018 at 3:33 pm

      Yeah…and they sell shot glasses at the “Freedom Tower” gift shop. Because…you have to be drunk to believe it.

  23. robert e williamson jr
    May 13, 2018 at 11:20 am

    The longer I study the entity of the Deep State the more convinced I am that Deep State directs the efforts of CIA to do their bidding. Continued conflicts between between CIA and FBI that end with CIA getting what they want,with respect to the outcome of FBI investigations, is indicative of a Justice Department that has been compromised and does not act independent of CIA or CIA direction.

    Seems the DOJ relies on nothing but outside interference in far too many CIA “sensitive investigations”. The bogus thing tanks on the east coast seem hard wired to DOj the same as they are to CIA. Since its inception CIA has had it’s agenda driven SWET special influence. After VINY (village idiot New York city) pulled out of the Iran deal I’m convinced the SWETS bow to the will of Israel and this indicates that the U.S. government is compromised by them also. We need to assert our sovereignty and ignore Israel.

    Since the death of JFK, which is the first really good example of something being drastically wrong in America. The country has experienced the deaths of MLK and RFK, the unexplainable horrendous mismanagement of the Vietnam war, The PROMIS / INSLAW scandal, white washing of Israeli spying cases, the CIA interference in John Kerry’s 1980’s investigation into drug trafficking terrorism and law enforcement. And on and on.

    As long as Americans turn a bling eye to this manipulation of our government our country by the SUPER WEALTHY ELITIST (SWETS) it will have no true course to the future.

    We need to get a clue, since the death of JFK the country has been compromised, starting with DOJ and the then congress.

    • Joe Tedesky
      May 13, 2018 at 12:43 pm

      Well put.

  24. May 13, 2018 at 10:45 am

    And we see that Tim Kaine, Hillary Clinton’s choice for VP candidate, introduced this AUMF; shows there is no difference between parties vis-a-vis US march toward fascism, though, like Jose and others, i think we were there already years ago.

    • strgr-tgther
      May 13, 2018 at 2:04 pm

      OMG! Does any not see how serious this is? Kaine is a Democrat and he is going to give this power to the Yellow Lizard?! WTF. As soon as this is passed he will use it to lock up Robert Mueller for sure! And Guantanamo is still open.

      *But the other comment is that these Democrats aren’t acting normal. So, we have to think Putin here. Is he that deep in are government to where we have to start all over again? If Putin is controlling the Democrats we are all doomed. He is doing it in Europe with at least three countries under the Russian boot.

      • Realist
        May 13, 2018 at 3:39 pm

        So, Putin’s behind all this, eh?

        I think you’re really a pseudonym for Al Franken who’s trying to ease back into comedy after his ignominious departure from politics.

        You need more practice, Al. You lost your edge while in DC.

      • Zhu Ba Jie
        May 13, 2018 at 10:02 pm

        If Putin controlled the US, at least someone rational would be in charge. In fact, we are doing it to ourselves. We have been for decades. We are responsible, not Putin ir any other scapegoat.

      • Abby
        May 13, 2018 at 11:47 pm

        Why not? The democrats already gave Trump more power to spy on us, more money for the military budget and they voted to deregulate the banks even further. This is what they meant when they said that they would support “Resistance” against Trump’s presidency.

        • Auntie Semite
          May 14, 2018 at 6:55 am

          The spying happened also simultaneously in the other ‘5-Eyes nations’ as well, along with increased spying powers.

      • Mork D
        May 14, 2018 at 11:04 am

        The fact that Kaine is involved in introducing this bill shows how far right the Dems have gone, which then illustrates how much further to the right the GOP has gone. And you get some Dems who browbeat other Dems for not supporting HRC… THIS IS WHY.

  25. Garrett Connelly
    May 13, 2018 at 10:37 am

    So the entire west coast is being forced out of the united states bit by bit.

    Will the Connecticut river valley also be squeezed out by the red states of hate?

    • T
      May 17, 2018 at 9:28 am

      > Will the Connecticut river valley also be squeezed out by the red states of hate?

      Where the Bush gang come from??

  26. F. G. Sanford
    May 13, 2018 at 9:14 am

    This bill, on the face of it, would seem to authorize planning and waging aggressive war. Like the crime it would justify, there are corollaries which logically follow. If put to a vote, would those who dissent be victims of suspicion for sympathizing with the enemy? Would they be candidates for retribution, and their supporters labelled subversives? It’s a simple matter to question someone’s patriotism and insist that enemies of the state are emboldened by their apathy or lack of courage. (It works the same for all governments.) The bill, by virtue of the very choice it requires, contains within it…”the accumulated evil of the whole”…, in so far as it negates the very foundations of our Constitutional Republic.

    As the economic model upon which our modern day “robber barons” sustain themselves steadily disintegrates, they have apparently decided to throw caution to the wind. Unable to guarantee success on a global playing field which inexorably threatens to “level” itself, they now unabashedly turn to perpetual war. Previous exaltations such as “responsibility to protect” and “spreading democracy” have all but been abandoned. Protecting the “petrodollar” is now openly discussed without shame or tarnished virtue. Based on a seventy year losing track record, the proposed military interventions will not succeed. At best, they may prolong the misery of others while temporarily preserving an artificially high standard of living based on resource extraction and third-world exploitation. Advocating a “change of course” could become a “seditious act” with all the attendant pains and miseries. So…what should we do?

    We could advocate for building our own cars and televisions, making our own clothes, advancing our own science and technology, educating our own workforce, rebuilding our own infrastructure, modernizing our own energy resources…or, we could whole heartedly root for war. Sad to say, I’m betting that we’ll root for war, and the impending disaster it surely guarantees will get us to change our mindset much more quickly – if we survive – than all the rational discourse that can be brought to bear through political dissent.

    My House and Senate Representatives are wholly and completely in favor of this “patriotic” initiative. Dissent would be pointless. At my age, I won’t live long enough for it to matter. But if I were young, I would remain quiet. I would do so in the hope that I could one day testify against them or assist in their prosecution. Now is not the time to speak. America cannot even find the courage to conduct legitimate investigations into State Crimes Against Democracy. Things will have to get much, much worse before Americans find that courage, if they ever find it at all. Right now, they’re doing “God’s Work”, and they seem pretty damned proud of themselves.

    • Joe Tedesky
      May 13, 2018 at 9:46 am

      It’s kind of like how we in the U.S. discuss our political campaigns. From the punditry on our MSM channels all the way down to the average person on the streets of America we discuss political strategy, as any discussion of the important issues at hand is negated and much to avoid. Eventually your neighbor doesn’t speak about wars and freedom of speech issues in as much as they talk all day about a political candidates campaign strategy.

      So yeah give the public as little there is of importance to talk about, and instead get them behind these mad ideas of stripping away their freedoms for the better good of democracy (sarcasm here) and there you have it, we now live in a police state. The reality that evolves from this blindly following the Pied Piper of propaganda is seen best by the silence it leaves along it’s way to fascism. So making it impossible to criticize our governments policies is just another way of stamping out any and all objection in kind. But even better is spinning the truth, while hiding the raw facts, as with a little patriotic rhetoric added makes an American proud to back their country no matter the right or wrong of it. MAGA hoorah we are the exceptional nation.

      Just thought I’d throw that in there F.G. Joe

      • Al Pinto
        May 13, 2018 at 10:33 am

        There’s a reason why, the common sentiment of “don’t talk about religion and politics…” exists in the corporate word and lately, generally everywhere. People already adopted this sentiment, in preparation of creating laws. Of course, there will be no protest whatsoever against the S.J.Res.59. I did read the resolution and cannot find any direct reference for holding US citizen without charges.

        The bigger question is, why congress relinquishing its authority to authorize war to the POTUS? Other than that’s just another step in building up, or legalize dictatorship…

        • Joe Tedesky
          May 13, 2018 at 12:08 pm

          “Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose
          Nothin’, it ain’t nothin’ honey, if it ain’t free” – Me And Bobby Mcgee Lyrics | MetroLyrics

          For some reason Al this whole thought of freedoms and dictatorships takes me back to a backyard patio party in 93’ with a lawyer, and a government purchasing agent (off duty), and we all thought then that Clinton by his putting Hillary in charge of the National Healthcare Debate was on his way to reign supreme leader of our banana republic… silly, but we did think that then.

          You are right, we citizens don’t pay no never mind, that is until we do. Filing for ordinances for a variety of things is painstaking, but when it comes to city hall who’s really up to fight it?

          Just like for me and my friends from back in the nineties we were pretty naive and stupid to believe what we did then, taking that in mind then relate that thinking to what we are living with now. My grandchildren never knew of a time before cell phones, as metal detectors to them are part of a buildings decorative accessories. So what will our grandchildren see as a benchmark of freedom and liberty? Will history books even speak to FDR’s 4 Freedoms?

          I understand patriotic support during wartime, but we citizens should always question why the war, and why and how long will our civil liberties be held captive? Apparently the squeaky wheel needs lubed.

        • Zhu Ba Jie
          May 13, 2018 at 10:05 pm

          We’ve had disguised dictatorship for quite a few years.

    • May 13, 2018 at 10:22 am

      We allowed the Constitutional republic with increasingly democratic institutions to gradually lose its life. The Founders did their best and Jefferson at least counted on an educated population of “mechanics” and farmers to gradually either be educated or educate themselves and make democracy thrive. Other Founders were not so sanguine about the “will of the people” but felt an attempt to make a republic based on reason was worth it. And it was. But all things die. During the time of the “fall” of the republic what those who championed the welfare of the people missed is that human beings, unless they are specifically and rigorously educated in critical thinking skills live almost exclusively by myths and live their lives within a mythological framework. Thus reason, facts, science plays no role in our society. At this point, even science as an enterprise is being bought out by vested interests except in areas they oligarchs may find amusing or advantageous.

      In short we are not a democracy anymore than the Empire under Augustus was a republic. Increasingly even in some local areas real life is governed largely arbitrarily by and for “the authorities” and their networks. Washington, a city I know very well, has been totally corrupted by careerist, Machiavellians (like Frank Underwood), various sorts of courtiers and courtesans (yes, sex is a commodity there and is used in power games), and the majority of bureaucrats in various states of sleep who know full well, as we used to say, “no good deed goes unpunished.” Could this change with the right game-theory rules–absolutely yes. Most people in Washington and the world “mean well” because we are constructed for compassion and connection with others. But, as a practical matter, that’s not going to happen because the vast majority of people do not want to live in the “land of the free and home of the brave” they want to do as they are told like in the fantasy that they are free and individual and then go along to get along. I’m guessing that 75% of the people want to be subjects not citizens–the ornery and stubborn independence that was around back in the day is dying out. Why not live in a world of entertainment, narcissism, fantasies, and gaming? Why yearn for something deeper? Your friends and fellow workers will hate you if you go on about it.

      We will, I believe, end up in a neo-feudal moment unless there is a dramatic moral change within the country. Some “green shoots” are definitely out there but as Chris Hedges has noted it seems unlikely much will come out of it.

      • Tim
        May 13, 2018 at 11:26 am

        I agree with everything you write; I just think that if the history ever gets written, the 2008 crash and bank bailout will prove to be the beginning of the neo-feudal state. The government has been creating money since then fist over barrel. And what backs up the value of this money? I would suggest it is not oil, but rather the military might of the Empire.

        • whiteylockmandoubled
          May 13, 2018 at 1:37 pm

          It’s older than that. The 1947 National Security Act and the founding Executive Orders of the spy agencies, especially NSC 10/2, which authorized and defined covert action and required the CIA to conduct it so that it could be plausibly denied, are the most important frontal assaults on the constitutional republic.

          Many younger people have a tendency to say we did a bunch of stuff during the Cold War but that was somehow justified because Communism. But the policies that we’re fighting now have roots in the immediate post World War II period.

          This is also why calls (including here) for a “Church Committee” style investigation should be treated with some skepticism. Following the Church Committee hearings, Congress passed a series of laws ostensibly to rein in the secret agencies, but the net result, as with the current proposed AUMF, was to codify previously illegal and unconstitutional behavior on the part of the government and to criminalize previously constitutional behavior by the people and the press.

          • Auntie Semite
            May 14, 2018 at 6:50 am

            & remember; the FBI, before it became ‘Federalized’, was a private detective agency called ‘Pinkerton’, which fomented and aggravated the Miners Wars in several states, in the 1800’s.

        • johnny
          May 13, 2018 at 2:57 pm

          Are you sure banks, governments, military are needed if people see themselves as more civilized, more educated than thousands of years ago?
          In “Startrek” there’s no money.
          Is fear unavoidable as a social engineering tool?

          • May 13, 2018 at 7:24 pm

            No fear is not unavoidable. Our problem is lack of courage and lack of the intellectual tools to think critically. Once we, as a culture rediscover virtue the culture of narcissism will evaporate and the inverted totalitarian state will dissolve.

          • Auntie Semite
            May 14, 2018 at 6:48 am

            In Star Trek they still had Board Inquiries and Court Martials.
            In Costa Rica, they abolished the Military.
            Result; no coups, civil unrest, or deep state corruption.
            & the Zionistas are not allowed in either!

        • Auntie Semite
          May 14, 2018 at 6:53 am

          It’s even Neo-Feudal / Neo Peasant with ‘Tiny House Nation’ which has the same amount of living space as did the housing for Serfs and Peasants in the Medieval Ages under the control of a ‘Lord’ who was to be obeyed as per Clergy Dictates.
          This is where we are headed…
          Religion, Government and Banking are all enslaving entities.

      • Auntie Semite
        May 14, 2018 at 6:10 am

        Those going along with the Plan are not only destroying the country, but any future they may have for themselves.
        Once all of the ‘Domestic Terrorists’ (Veterans, Gun Owners, Oathkeepers, militia members, Journalists, Political Activists to name a few) have been rounded up, rest assured that the State Masonic New World Order Global Village Apparatus will be coming for YOU!!! and ME!!! and everyone who hands in their firearms under threat of severe punishment for not complying with the same!

      • Dieter Heymann
        May 14, 2018 at 4:58 pm

        Our Civil War means that the Founders created a failure.

    • Realist
      May 13, 2018 at 4:12 pm

      This despicable bit of tyranny essentially rescinds the Constitution and Bill of Rights and formally replaces our democratic republic with a dictatorship. It gives the president absolute power to make war at will and to deprive life and liberty to any citizen who merely expresses his objections. Under the rubric of our current document it is unconstitutional, hence null and void and ought to be struck down by the Supreme Court immediately lest anyone be fooled into conferring any sense of legitimacy upon it.

      The rights specified in the constitution are things that neither the president nor the congress are entitled to take away, no matter how many congressmen, senators or chief executives collude to try to do so. Any president who would sign such a bill should be immediately impeached and removed from office for high treason. Any congresscritter with any role in crafting such a document should be immediately recalled by his state government and tried for treason.

      This is worse than secession by the Confederacy, which at least had the backing of the people from the affected states. What American would approve of their family, friends or neighbors being dragged to prison for expressing a political view, protected under our present constitution, on government acts that could destroy us all? If they can do THIS to you, they can do ANYTHING.

      This so-called new “law” being proffered is more than just one additional nail in the coffin of the constitution (we’ve had this discussion before about how EVERY amendment in the Bill of Rights is systematically defied or ignored), it is tantamount to publicly cremating the constitution on a raging bonfire with all the yahoos in Washington dancing round it like demented maniacs. What the fools don’t see is their day will come when they too are dragged away for “defying” authority. Here is where the early days of the Soviet Union would be a good lesson in history to American politicians, fools that they are.

      • Auntie Semite
        May 14, 2018 at 6:46 am

        Relatives are sometime the worst of paid informants and aggravating traitors to those trying to effect positive changes.
        They wouldn’t care if you are dragged away kicking and screaming…
        They’re too busy spending their informant money online purchasing new Amazon Spy Gear!
        See Snordster’s You Tube video titled ‘The Roach Motel at the End of the Universe’, along with Shooter’ ‘Slave’ and ‘Monster’!

    • Zhu Ba Jie
      May 13, 2018 at 10:54 pm

      Maybe those of us unable to keep quiet, go along to get along, repeat the cliches & factoids, should keep a bag packed & have some cash hidden in a safe place, so we can flee when we need to. Learn a foreign language or two, for a greater choice of destinations.

      • Abby
        May 13, 2018 at 11:51 pm

        Yep. We should all act like we just left room 101, keep our heads down and continue to look for options to leave the country. Problem is where will we go? A lot of the other countries are passing the same things.

        • Auntie Semite
          May 14, 2018 at 6:42 am

          Australia is now referred to as ‘America Down-Unda’ with it’s recent set of Globalist and Draconian laws.
          If you speak out against vaccines, you will get a 10 YEAR jail sentence!!
          Malcolm Turnbull, like his predecessors, is a Zionist stooge as exposed by Brendan O’Connell, who was illegally imprisoned.
          See Brendan’s You Tube videos documenting the Zionist harassment he has had to endure, and inhumane prison conditions!
          It’s here….!!!

      • Auntie Semite
        May 14, 2018 at 6:25 am

        And…get a second Passport.
        I did…and I live offshore, and have for the past 20 years, &
        I’m also a Disabled Veteran who became a Targeted Individual when I inquired about the influence of Secret Societies in Government to a prominent US Senator from the Mid-West circa 1992.
        Also, keep your weapons available in the event your neighborhood gets invaded with ‘No Knock Warrantless Searches’ similar to what happened in Watertown, Massachussetts post-False Flag Bombing of the Boston Marathon!
        Previous court cases where Police / LE abused authority and threatened the life, limb and property of previous ‘suspects’ have been deemed and judged to be in self-defense by those who protected themselves from Police abuse and illegal acts by LE.

    • john wilson
      May 14, 2018 at 4:30 am

      Keeping quiet keeps them in power.

      • Auntie Semite
        May 14, 2018 at 6:29 am

        Also, NOT SUPPORTING THOSE WHO ARE RISKING LIFE, LIMB AND PROPERTY TO HOLD THESE POLITICAL PSYCHOPATHS ACCOUNTABLE IS ALSO KEEPING ‘THEM’ IN ZIONIST-INFLUENCED POWER!
        That needs to change, and soon!
        Unfortunately, this will be a three-front Civil War; war against the Deep State, war against the Narco-Terrorist Gangs, and war against potential invaders under the UN banner!

  27. jose
    May 13, 2018 at 9:09 am

    After reading the above article, One word came to mind: “FASCISM” Simply stated, there no other way to interpret this unconstitutional bill. If I understood correctly, the president could have anybody detained just by writing a dissenting commentary over his war policies. Marjorie Cohn is right when she asserts that ” If this bill were to pass, it would imperil our right to speak out and challenge whatever military adventures the president decides to undertake.” Fascism anyone?

    • Zhu Ba Jie
      May 13, 2018 at 10:32 pm

      Does thd label matter?

    • Auntie Semite
      May 14, 2018 at 6:30 am

      Der Fuherer would be pleezed,…!

  28. mike k
    May 13, 2018 at 9:03 am

    Dear format designer, if a history book were formatted as our comments are here, then one would have to start with the last page and patiently work one’s way back to page one. With a novel or mystery it would be even more absurd to format it this way.

    Why not admit this change in our comment format is not working for many of us, and change it back? Would that really be so hard to do? I am suggesting this for the benefit of this wonderful conversation at CN, in order to facilitate it.

    • Diana
      May 14, 2018 at 6:10 am

      I second that, Mike. It’s awfully confusing.

  29. mike k
    May 13, 2018 at 8:53 am

    Taught not to question, rewarded for conformity – we are sleepwalking into Armageddon. If a tree falls in the forest of official lies, does it make a sound if no one hears it?

    • Auntie Semite
      May 14, 2018 at 6:31 am

      No sound if in a Political Vacuum.
      In Congress, no one can hear you scream!

  30. Liam
    May 13, 2018 at 8:44 am

    They are doing all that can not to stifle dissent and go after Americans that buck the system.

    Massive Compilation of Media Material Proving April 7, 2018 Chemical Attack in Dhouma Syria Was a False Flag Conducted By The White Helmet Terrorists https://steemit.com/news/@clarityofsignal/compilation-of-media-material-proving-april-7-2018-chemical-attack-in-dhouma-syria-was-a-false-flag-conducted-by-the-white

    Chronicling Western Media Exploitation of Syrian Children: UK’s Channel 4 News Portrays White Helmets and Nour al-Zinki Terrorists Who Beheaded 12 Year Old Boy As Ordinary Farmers and Factory Workers https://steemit.com/informationwar/@clarityofsignal/chronicling-western-media-exploitation-of-syrian-children-uk-s-itv4-portrays-white-helmets-and-nour-al-zinki-terrorists-who

    Large Compilation of Clarity of Signal Most Important Investigative Posts (March-May 2018)Exposing White Helmets, False Flags And Propaganda Produced For War in Syria

    https://steemit.com/news/@clarityofsignal/large-compilation-of-clarity-of-signal-most-important-investigative-posts-march-may-2018-exposing-white-helmets-false-flags-and

  31. Joe Tedesky
    May 13, 2018 at 8:09 am

    If I’m not mistaken the First Amendment forbids “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

    Now I’m no lawyer, but what I read when reading the First Amendment is instructions to Congress to make no law to prohibit or abridge our citizen freedom of speech. So I guess, as been proven so many other times before, that our U.S. Constitution is obsolete, or to be ignored. Precedent may be found by the actions of Adams and Lincoln, but how many Americans know this, or better yet have any inkling of how this all works? How may our U.S. Constitution live and breathe if our legislators continually blocks it with so many other restrictive laws against our freedoms?

    Lastly, besides us here on this site, how many Americans will read and heed these words of warning by the respected Majorie Cohn? I mean to tell you that what Professor Cohn presents to us here, is without a doubt one of the most important matters we citizens should know about, but dare I tell you of how rare this news the good Professor brings us will be, as it goes unheard. So a big part of the problem at hand, isn’t just about freedom of speech or expression as it is about the denial of hearing about it, because we have a irresponsible corporate owned press who will never say a word about it. So thanks Professor Majorie Cohn, you are an invaluable asset to protecting our freedoms and liberties, as well as you being a great American citizen for giving us a heads up. Can’t say you didn’t warn us.

    • May 13, 2018 at 10:30 am

      Joe, according to the courts the Constitution can be suspended if there is a “national emergency” or war. For years after 9/11 officials have said, “we are at war” and the courts (usually made of “made men/women”) tends to rule in favor of State power and has for many years. The Constitution no longer has the force of law because we are “an Empire now” as a certain high official announced. We have no rights other than those the State chooses to grant us. We are subjects. Our money and property can be seized, our person can be held, tortured and killed if the Executive branch labels us a an enemy of the State without trial or due process. We are clearly ruled by a network of oligarchs called the “Deep State” or ‘Permanent Government” or whatever.

      We can thank the fact that the public is aggressively willing to pull the wool over its own eyes that allow you an I to make comments on sites like this one. The State makes noises about shutting it down but don’t because there is no need and is unlikely to be need to waste efforts shutting us down or removed off of the streets. Few people even want to consider thinking along the lines of this site or most of those that comment here.

      • Joe Tedesky
        May 13, 2018 at 11:41 am

        I hear ya Banger. This whole subject takes me back a few years ago to when I listened to Chief Justice William Rehnquist give a two hour lecture on the naïveté of our citizens U.S. Constitutional assumptions. In fact in any democratically run government the assumption of freedom is often misunderstood during a time of national strife or war. Ask a Japanese American who had relatives here in the Continental U.S. about rights in America at a time of war. Confiscation of any natural resource needed for wartime production is a given, as is Habeas corpus is loss under unending detainment.

        Here’s a different question, and with our acceptance of these martial law mandates may we citizens question or rather petition for a time limit? I mean should we good heartily go along with a lifetime of TSA check points? Will going to a stadium or an arena always forever mean we get searched by security, and make lights go off on the metal detector… darn keys.

        Benjamin Franklin didn’t as much praise the U.S. Constitution as much as he condoned it’s worthwhile existence.

        “Benjamin Franklin, ever the optimist even at the age of 81, gave what was for him a remarkably restrained assessment in his final speech before the Constitutional Convention: “…when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men, all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views.” He thought it impossible to expect a “perfect production” from such a gathering, but he believed that the Constitution they had just drafted, “with all its faults,” was better than any alternative that was likely to emerge.”

        https://constitutioncenter.org/learn/educational-resources/historical-documents/perspectives-on-the-constitution-a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it

        My point is, is that given all of what needs, or appears to be needed in preparing for war, is that we citizens may see a optimistic light at the end of the restrained rights tunnel. If we don’t then we surely can’t say we live in a country of freedoms.

        Thanks for your added response Banger. Joe

      • Auntie Semite
        May 14, 2018 at 6:34 am

        Which is why 9/11 was staged in the ‘Empire State’.
        Building 7 was reported down by the BBC ten minutes before it actually happened!
        The American Society of Structural Engineers inspected the supporting structures, and made note that it appeared that cutting charges were used to sever the main supports.
        That never gets reported…

      • Diana
        May 14, 2018 at 6:35 am

        Todd E. Pierce wrote an informative article outlining the precedents used to justify martial law and suspension of the Bill of Rights in times of war, civil or foreign. This might be a good time to revisit the issues he outlines: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/09/12/us-war-theories-target-dissenters/

        • Realist
          May 14, 2018 at 9:37 am

          Hmmm. It looks like Lincoln actually came up with the concept of “thought crime” nearly a hundred years before Orwell.

          If no one is allowed under penalty of law to express an opinion on the war at variance with the policies of the administration, it becomes impossible to alter that policy no matter how necessary. Even the president would be guilty of violating martial law if he recommended a change. Shutting down rational discourse on the subject is unvarnished tyranny. (Of course, answering to the law is only imposed on the little people, because the constitution is apparently meant to be taken seriously only to a point.)

      • Realist
        May 14, 2018 at 9:17 am

        “…according to the courts the Constitution can be suspended if there is a “national emergency” or war. For years after 9/11 officials have said, “we are at war”…”

        Lemme guess, it doesn’t actually say that in the document but is something that has been revealed to us by those divining the “original intent” of the founding fathers.

  32. mike k
    May 13, 2018 at 7:23 am

    The State exists primarily to make war and enrich the (hidden) Rulers. No one should be allowed to question this. Those who do are traitors and should be crushed without mercy. Laws are made by the Rulers to check the dangerous freedom of their subjects to interfere in any way with the operations of Empire. A powerful Police State is needed to protect the Rulers from their subjects. The judgments of the State are always right, and should be obeyed without question.

    • Auntie Semite
      May 14, 2018 at 6:36 am

      And, as Mike Rivero has noted, “The last thing that a Government does before it falls is to loot the Treasury!”
      See his presentation of ‘All Wars are Banker’s Wars’ on You-Tube, before it gets removed like many thousands of You Tube videos did last week!

  33. May 13, 2018 at 6:14 am

    Once a state has the authority to imprison a certain category of person without due process, it is virtually inevitable that said state will over time expand the categories of persons who can be denied due process.

    • May 13, 2018 at 10:36 am

      Certainly. The State controls us–we are subjects not citizens. But I wouldn’t worry about repression along the lines of the usual forms of totalitarianism. The FBI is not going to break down my door (other than by accident) and haul me away–they don’t need to because few people want to think about any of this stuff we talk about here. They want to be left alone to sleep, sleep and dream, dream. We have the liberty to grouse, complain, vent, cry out, warn our friends and neighbors but they’ll ignore us and not invite us to dinner or talk further and laugh at our eccentricity.

      • Zhu Ba Jie
        May 13, 2018 at 10:44 pm

        Life will go on, of course, but if you assume nothing bad can happen to you, you are likely ti be disappointed.

    • john wilson
      May 14, 2018 at 4:38 am

      It wouldn’t matter if the accused got due process because the judges are bought and owned by the deep state. I hear you say, but what about our sacred jury system? How do you think juries are selected? they are hand picked individuals who are owned by the state. Of course, in ordinary simple crime cases no doubt the jury is random, but when it comes to the state versus the individual, then the jury will be hand picked by the deep state and told before hand what the verdict will be.

    • Auntie Semite
      May 14, 2018 at 6:37 am

      Just ask the GULAG and Konzentration Kamp survivors…!

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