Israelis Continue to Open Fire on Gaza Protestors: An Eyewitness Account

An Interview with Gaza-based Palestinian Journalist, Wafa Al-Udaini

By Dennis J Bernstein

According to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR), the Palestinian death toll since March 30, 2018 “has risen to 33, including 4 children and 1 photojournalist, and the number of those wounded has risen to 2,436, including 410 children, 66 women, 22 journalists and 9 paramedics.”

There have been no Israeli casualties.

According to PCHR, on Friday, April 20th, Israeli snipers “killed 4 Palestinian civilians, including a child, and wounded 274 others, including 41 children, 6 women and 1 journalist, in addition to hundreds suffering tear gas inhalation, including PCHR’s fieldworkers who were documenting the Israeli forces’ suppression of the entirely peaceful demonstrations near the border fence with Israel, east of the Gaza Strip.”

PCHR maintains that “for the fourth week in a row and upon a decision by the Israeli highest military and political echelons, the Israeli forces used lethal force against the peaceful protesters, who did not pose any threat to the soldiers’ life.” There is a cell phone camera recording now being widely distributed that appears to show Israeli snipers and soldiers cheering as they gun down unarmed Palestinians fleeing in the distance.

On April 17th, I spoke with Gaza-based Palestinian Journalist Wafa Al-Udaini who has been an eyewitness to all the Gaza protests in the ongoing anti-occupation, Right to Return protests since late March. Al-Udaini’s friend and colleague, Yaser Murtaja, a photojournalist and camera person for a Gaza-based media production company was shot on April 6th by Israeli sharp-shooters and died the next day of his wounds.

According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, “Pictures posted on social media by local journalists and witness testimony from local journalists show that Murtaja was wearing a bulletproof vest and helmet that were both clearly marked with the words “PRESS” when he was hit.”

In the following interview, Al-Udaini offers an eye-witness recounting of the initial protest in Gaza on March 30th, in which at least 18 protesters were killed by Israeli snipers and well over a thousand people were wounded.

Dennis Bernstein: We are going to hear now some eyewitness accounts, some very troubling testimony of the way in which Israeli snipers, from a long distance away, behind a fence and across a field, began to gun down hundreds of people, wounding over a thousand protesters and killing at least 18 Palestinians on the first day.  It was truly horrifying.

Some people were protesting, some were praying, and others, like Wafa Al-Udaini, were sitting down for a meal during the long day of anti-occupation protests, when Israeli snipers opened fire and began to gun down unarmed Palestinians.

Wafa Al-Udaini, tell us a bit of your background and then tell us what you witnessed on March 30th and the other protest days that you were an eye-witness to.

Wafa Al-Udaini: I live here in the Gaza Strip.  My grandparents were

Gaza from space. (NASA)

expelled from Beersheba by Israeli gangs in 1948.  Now I live as a Palestinian refugee in the Gaza Strip. I work as a journalist for different websites and on radio.  I am also an activist, the leader of a youth group here composed of students and journalists who work to present Palestinian issues to the world.

We were so excited about the Great March of Return protests, which began on the 13th of March.  It was a peaceful and secular march, where all Palestinians, male and female, elderly and children, came to the border fence to resist peacefully.  I took my family with me and we brought along something to eat and drink. We sat together and shared our food. We were asserting our right to demonstrate and reminding the world of our right to return to the land we occupied before we were driven from our homes.  I brought my camera and intended to livestream the event. We were about 700 meters from the Israeli side.

DB: Could you talk about when you realized that the soldiers were opening fire on civilians?  Were people around you being shot?

WAU: At the moment, I was interviewing people around me about what life was like before 1948, stories they had heard from their grandparents.  Then suddenly I heard shots and I saw people running. I asked what was happening and they told me that the Israelis were opening fire. A man fleeing with his children told me some had been murdered.  The Israelis began throwing teargas and they gunned down people who were fleeing.

DB: Let me explain to people that there is the border fence, which is electrified, and then there is a major piece of land between the fence and where the protest was happening.  My understanding is that the soldiers were sharpshooters and they were picking people off from the other side of the fence.

WAU: Exactly.  It had nothing to do with “defense,” because of the distance and because we were unarmed.  They fired on women holding the Palestinian flag. This was their crime. Claims of self defense are just ludicrous.

DB: A friend of yours, a journalist, Yaser Murtaja, was gunned down on April 6th. I understand he was wearing his press vest, that clearly marked him as a journalist. He was gunned down and killed by Israeli snipers.  Do you think he might have been shot because he was wearing his press vest, and the Israelis weren’t crazy about there killing fields being broadcast around the world?

WAU: Yes.  The Israelis are realizing that they can’t continue to fool people indefinitely.  This camera footage of all of this flies in the face of any claims that the Israeli army is acting in self defense.  These on-the-ground images show Israeli propaganda for what it is.

DB: It appears they are willing to wipe out peaceful protesters while the rest of the world is watching, while the US government continues to provide them with arms, and while the Western corporate press works to bury the real story.

Dennis J. Bernstein is a host of “Flashpoints” on the Pacifica radio network and the author of Special Ed: Voices from a Hidden Classroom.  You can access the audio archives at www.flashpoints.net. You can get in touch with the author at dbernstein@igc.org.

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82 comments for “Israelis Continue to Open Fire on Gaza Protestors: An Eyewitness Account

  1. Zachary Smith
    May 6, 2018 at 12:36 pm

    Natalie Portman

  2. Berna
    April 26, 2018 at 5:28 pm

    Peaceful demonstrators don’t create a smoke screen with burning tires, breech the border carrying grenades and knives,
    “2 Palestinians armed with grenade and knife arrested after breaching Gaza border”
    “IDF ARRESTS 3 ARMED PALESTINIANS WHO INFILTRATED FROM GAZA”

    Hamas is at war with Israel. They don’t claim to be promoting a peaceful demonstration. They want blood.

    • Abe
      April 27, 2018 at 3:41 pm

      Hasbara troll “Berna” points out the obscene logic of Israeli propaganda in the face of peaceful Palestinian protests in Gaza.

      – Israel shoots unarmed protestors on the Gaza side of the border
      – Israel arrests alleged armed infiltrators on the Israeli side of the border

      Keep on blabbering, “Berna”, about who wants blood.

  3. Berna
    April 26, 2018 at 5:17 pm

    Palestinians are creating serious visibility problems and health problems by burning tires at the Gaza border. This is a security problem for the IDF. What is the point of burning tires expect to make protesters more vulnerable ????

    https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Palestinian-wounded-in-border-protests-dies-552541

    • Abe
      April 27, 2018 at 3:51 pm

      Hasbara troll “Berna” points out that the Israeli Army murders peaceful protesters who burn tires.

      The Hasbara Manual published by “The Israel Project” in 2009 is a treasure trove of scripted propaganda canards.

      https://www.transcend.org/tms/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sf-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf

      For example, page 96 of the manual recommends: “‘Defensive’ and ‘preventative’ are the words that best describe Israeli military action.”

      Hasbara outlets produce scripted articles, write op-eds and make television appearances to disseminate pro-Israel propaganda.

      Specific “comments” at by Hasbara trolls like “Berna” reveal the web of connections between the Israeli government, major pro-Israel media organizations, and the activity of the Hasbara troll army online.

    • Abe
      April 27, 2018 at 3:56 pm

      Hasbara troll “Berna” points out that the Israeli Army murders unarmed protesters who burn tires.

      The Hasbara Manual published by “The Israel Project” in 2009 is a treasure trove of scripted propaganda canards.

      https://www.transcend.org/tms/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sf-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf

      For example, page 96 of the manual recommends: “‘Defensive’ and ‘preventative’ are the words that best describe Israeli military action.”

      Hasbara outlets produce scripted articles, write op-eds and make television appearances to disseminate pro-Israel propaganda.

      Specific “comments” by Hasbara trolls like “Berna” reveal the web of connections between the Israeli government, major pro-Israel media organizations, and the activity of the Hasbara troll army online.

      Keep on blabbering, “Berna”, about a smoke screen.

      Israel has a serious visibility problem right now.

      • WC
        April 27, 2018 at 5:59 pm

        Here he goes again. :)

      • Abe
        April 29, 2018 at 2:20 pm

        Note to readers:

        I deleted the comment (April 27, 2018 at 3:51 pm) above after discovering a grammatical error in the sixth paragraph. The site software indicated that the comment had been deleted.

        I then corrected and re-posted the comment (April 27, 2018 at 3:56 pm).

        Apparently due to a technical glitch, the comment appears twice.

  4. concern citizen
    April 25, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    hey israel, you better stop or your people around the world are going to be affected……

    • Abe
      April 27, 2018 at 4:01 pm

      Jews around the world are getting really, really tired of having to ‘splain’ the latest Israeli Army atrocities.

  5. April 24, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    Thanks to Mr. Bernstein for an important interview. As for the demise of the Anasazi culture, Maya, Sumerians or any other, what does that have to do with this issue? Anthropologists, archeologists, sociobiologists will be debating until the funds are gone, Chris Hedges is a journalist, and the evil treatment of Palestinians by the apartheid state Israel goes on. Israel always plays the victim card. Well, yeah, what is anyone doing about Israel’s horrendous behavior, verbally attacking anyone for “what are you doing?” is juvenile. I can only say that this issue is heating up, the oppressors are getting more oppressive and each of us can respond in our own way and speak out, whenever we can.

  6. April 24, 2018 at 12:29 pm

    Over twelve hours ago I tried to make a reply to JWalters (April 23, 2018 at 7:58 pm) and it was “moderated”. I tried again a little bit ago after altering all “suspicious” words I could recognize. No dice.

    Just now I tried a third time with only Portman’s revised statement, and it was still “moderated”. What the devil is going on?

    • Abe
      April 24, 2018 at 6:46 pm

      The “devil” is in the technology, Zachary.

      Of course, hilarious Hasbara propaganda trolls like “WC” will loudly insist that it’s “overseers” of “this site”.

  7. Zachary Smith
    April 24, 2018 at 11:35 am

    “Israeli MoD: If Syria Uses Russian S-300 Systems Against Israel, We’ll Retaliate”

    The S-300 is an air-defense weapon. Israel is saying that it has the right to attack anybody, and nobody has the right to try to stop them. God’s Favorite Thieves and Murderers.

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201804241063858654-syria-russian-s300-systems-israel-retaliate/

  8. Unfettered Fire
    April 24, 2018 at 11:17 am

    Seriously, why is the western empire still living in medieval times? It creates a neofeudal economic policy (neoliberalism) to keep humanity in an endless, futureless loop of inequality and poverty.

    “The neoliberals are prisoners of the Eighteenth Century. They have not advanced since the neo-feudal teachings of Adam Smith (1723-1790). Smith is the godfather of economics and wrote the “bible” of capitalism, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations. Smith was among the first to give much thought about economics.

    In Eighteenth Century Great Britain, half the population lived in poverty. They survived, if they did, with disease, famine, illiteracy, lack of sanitation and in slums. It was normal then. Things had always been that way. They thought the poor, starving and ignorant mass of people would always be among them. They thought their society was according to the law of nature.

    The neoliberals and their alter-ego, the neocons, do not have any good ideas for the Twenty-first Century. They have caused financial disasters and endless wars, and they tell us not to expect better.”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/05/05/the-inhuman-failure-of-austerity/

    This is why the western empire has failed today. It refuses to evolve with the rest of the world.

    “Looked at objectively, both Saudi Arabia and Israel should be anachronisms. Two nations making outrageous, unprovable claims of divine right that in turn excuses undemocratic, racist-like behavior and policies. And the United States, which also sees itself as God-blessed, readily backs them both.

    What this suggests is that, even amidst an increasingly high-tech culture, medieval thinking is still with us – deeply enough embedded to influence the thinking of millions, shape government policy and wage crusades. Glory be!”

    http://www.tothepointanalyses.com/4157

  9. Zachary Smith
    April 24, 2018 at 11:00 am

    From Craig Murray:

    This transcript of an Israeli General on an Israeli radio station (begins 6.52 in) defending the latest killing by Israeli army snipers of a 14 year old boy who posed no threat of any kind, is much more powerful if you just read it than any analysis I can give.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/condemned-by-their-own-words/

    Unbelievable.

  10. April 24, 2018 at 10:52 am

    Comment by Wafa A Al-Udaini::

    “WAU: Yes. The Israelis are realizing that they can’t continue to fool people indefinitely. This camera footage of all of this flies in the face of any claims that the Israeli army is acting in self defense. These on-the-ground images show Israeli propaganda for what it is.”

    Sadly, it is not about not knowing, it’s about not caring and for our leaders it is the abandonment of moral principles to enjoy their position, knowing the high price for criticizing Israel. and the benefits for looking the other way. I really believe some defend Israel because they think they are supporting Israel, when it fact they are deluding themselves merely not to pay the costs and to receive the benefits. They can’t be that dumb. They know.

    • Joe
      April 24, 2018 at 11:37 am

      I strongly recommend reading “Our Harsh Logic”, by Breaking The Silence. Great expose of IDF by soldiers themselves.

  11. Paul Stewart
    April 24, 2018 at 10:48 am

    Why no missile attacks on Israel Mr. President? Why aren’t they monsters and animals Mr President?

    “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”

    Isaiah 5:20 KJV

  12. Zachary Smith
    April 24, 2018 at 1:50 am

    Female Palestinian protester Ahed Tamimi, who is currently serving an eight-month jail term for slapping an Israeli soldier, should have been shot in the knee and placed under house arrest for life, believes an Israeli MP.

    This is what the Israel troll has been defending. That’s what the criminal gang also known as Israel has become.

    h**ps://www.rt.com/news/424859-israeli-mp-shoot-tamimi/

  13. Zachary Smith
    April 24, 2018 at 1:42 am

    Good-guy Hitler and Holocaust-caused-by-Allies.

    Sad.

    • backwardsevolution
      April 24, 2018 at 3:48 am

      Zachary Smith – what is really sad is that historians are put in jail for even asking questions. Can you imagine if we couldn’t ask questions here? Why is the Holocaust sacrosanct when the Gulf of Tonkin, U.S.S. Liberty, weapons of mass destruction, the Vietnam War, World War I, World War II, Korean War, the Iraq War, JFK, MLK, false flags, color revolutions, George Soros, Russiagate and sneaky coups aren’t?

      These historians do not dispute that a great many people died, but they do dispute the numbers. They all agree that many people died (starved to death) because food could not get through, and many prisoners also died from disease in the camps, Typhus being one of them.

      I don’t think we know the truth about the Balfour Declaration and what really went on. I’d sure like to know what the agreement was between Britain and the people wanting to form Israel. I think there is a lot more to this story than we are being told, some very shady negotiations. How is it that Hitler was helping the Jews get out to Israel? Why don’t people know about this?

      Does Israel control the U.S.? They sure look like they do. Or are we being fooled into thinking that they do? This is another question I’d like to have answered.

      What is “sad” is that I questioned what you’re here to protect and you don’t like that.

      • Expat
        April 24, 2018 at 7:57 am

        Read “Against Our Better Judgement” by Alison Weir. It’s a short book and will answer your questions about the creation of Israel.

        • backwardsevolution
          April 24, 2018 at 4:39 pm

          Expat – thank you.

      • dahoit
        April 24, 2018 at 1:01 pm

        I agree,wholeheartedly.

  14. backwardsevolution
    April 24, 2018 at 12:00 am

    Natalie Portman said:

    “Israel was created exactly 70 years ago as a haven for refugees from the Holocaust.”

    I don’t get it. Hitler was allowing Jews to go abroad with all their belongings (he held back a small percentage of money, like other countries have done) up until 1939. Then I believe after that Hitler was allowing Jews to leave for Israel. Many Jews put in the concentration camps, along with French Resistance fighters, communists, etc., were used as forced labor. Hundreds of thousands died from Typhus and other diseases in the camps. When the Allied forces entered Poland, they bombed the roads and railroads, which made it hard to get food through to the camps, if not impossible. Many people starved to death. These are the piles of dead bodies we see from the pictures the Allied forces took after they arrived at these camps.

    We are told 6 million died in the Holocaust, but no one is allowed to question this number. If you question it in Germany or Austria, you will go to jail. No questioning allowed! Why is this?

    • David G
      April 24, 2018 at 6:01 am

      Sure, totally! And on the Eastern front, before those misunderstood camps got going, the Jewish population just happened to stand in front of all those machine-gun bullets, unfortunately just as they were standing next to open pits. (Or is that fortunately?)

      Yech.

      • backwardsevolution
        April 24, 2018 at 4:36 pm

        David G – for asking questions, I get a “Yech”. Fair enough.

        I grew up hating Hitler, argued with people whenever Germans would bring up defenses for what was done, even argued with their parents. My parents hated him, and so did I. I would reply to Germans who said they didn’t know, “Yeah, right, how could you not have known?” Another stupid young, impressionable mind who swallowed the narrative whole.

        As time went on, I would read articles on what happened in Germany, just like I would read articles about Rwanda or Cambodia, and little by little I began to wonder about a few things. For instance, why would Hitler, who apparently hated the Jews so much, ship them hundreds of miles away to kill them? Why wouldn’t he have done it a few miles out of town? And I discovered it was because they were using the Jewish prisoners as their labor force for making weapons and machinery for the war, as the young Germans were off fighting in the war. If this is indeed the case, why would you want to kill your labor force? You wouldn’t, not on purpose, because they would have been desperately needed. That was probably the first thing I read that made me stop and think.

        Then I read articles on Churchill, who I had always thought to be noble and heroic, only to discover that that wasn’t really the case at all, that he was really just a warmongering prick who wrote good speeches and got a lot of young British soldiers killed.

        Then when I read about the American banks and American corporations in Germany building German tanks and armaments, well…..

        I’ve learned enough, even on this site, to realize that things are not always as they appear to be. I’ve also learned to be suspect of the very things you are not allowed to question. Why would someone want to hide anything or shut down discussion on certain topics? Why?

        Do I now think Hitler was a good man who just got a bad rap? Nope. But neither do I think the other players were innocent either; far from it. You just need look at this Russiagate propaganda to understand what goes on. “How dare you question Russiagate!” is the current spin, just as “How dare you question weapons of mass destruction!” was the previous one.

        What I object to is the shutting down of conversation, the jailing of historians, and the attempted passing of laws to stop any further inquiry.

        So “Yech” me all you want. I don’t care. I have never said that many Jews were not killed during World War II. I just think the historians should be allowed to do their work without being imprisoned for asking questions.

    • Sam F
      April 24, 2018 at 7:49 am

      Of course detailed study is needed to verify such numbers, and they might be questioned with good or bad reason, but criticism of statistics should never be outlawed. Germany does this due to the damage caused by any public display of present Nazi sympathies, which is understandable. Doing so elsewhere is anti-democratic, a symptom of zionist fascism.

      My own readings suggest much lower numbers of Jewish casualties, but I have not found a nonpartisan study, nor do I see the need to challenge the figure. But the anti-democratic zionist controlled US media never mention that in WWII there were over 12 miilion civilian deaths in China, and over 20 million in Russia. They never mention that most Germans were not Nazis and that there were millions of civilian deaths there. They never mention similar numbers of casualties among the French and English. They never advocate special privileges for anyone but the Jews, revealing their ownership and extreme prejudice.

      No other group with great WWII casualties demands or is given any special privileges. It made no sense to put a Jewish homeland in Palestine as there was already militancy there against UK for allowing zionists to pack the place with Jewish people, and UK gave up on the problem after zionists assassinated a cabinet member there. The UN had no authority there in fact, and had just been created and was forced by Truman to go along with a special state there, apparently the result of zionist bribes. Other locations that would have worked better had been considered by Jewish groups, but were rejected apparently due to zionist influence.

      The special privileges demanded by zionists are those sought by the tyrants in every group, who claim foreign enemies to demand domestic power and accuse their moral superiors of disloyalty. The zionists must have spoils from their neighbors to distribute among their followers, as tyrants seek everywhere. This is the danger of an ethnic group “homeland” as shown by WWII itself. No one has a right to an empire, least of all in the Mideast where everyone’s ancestors had an empire at some point in the million years since humanity migrated through the area from its origins in SE Africa.

  15. Joe Tedesky
    April 23, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    I thought this article might explain to what it is to be Jewish….

    http://mondoweiss.net/2018/04/central-zionism-dismantled/

  16. April 23, 2018 at 8:43 pm

    RINSE ,LATHER ,REPEAT.
    70 years later and zionist mendacity ,sins and crimes against humanity are never addressed.
    Might and economic power on display in spades.
    One’s religion does not make one a semite. Arabs from Lebanon, Syria and Palestine are also genetically considered semites.
    The real anti -semites are the zionist. Zionism is a supremacist, racist and fascistic reality.
    One only has to go to the Jerusalem post and Haaretz and read the comments of many Talmudic Jewish entities and political authorites on their racist evil comments with regards to the arab people of the colonial outpost of pre Balfour Palestine.
    Historical context and realities. Palestine was inhabited by Arab christians and muslims and Mizrahi jews.

  17. Drew Hunkins
    April 23, 2018 at 7:46 pm

    What kind of sick animals (no offense to the animal kingdom) can gun down innocent beleaguered Palestinians participating in a non-violent protest on their side (the Gaza side) of the Israeli imposed concentration camp fence? That these utterly deplorable and disgraceful massacres by the IDF can take place with very little outcry in the Western establishment press is reprehensible and obviously speaks to the overwhelming power of the Zionist Power Configuration (ZPC; the great Dr. James Petras essentially coined the term).

    The Palestinians will eventually win this battle against Israeli violence, deceit and treachery but they must stick together. They desperately need every last bit of help they can get from those of us who know the score.

    • WC
      April 23, 2018 at 7:59 pm

      This is the “sick” nature of the beast, and it has been going on for a long, long time.

      https://www.truthdig.com/articles/chaco-canyon-chaco-earth/

      • Anon
        April 23, 2018 at 8:33 pm

        Therefore, WC implies, just get over it, nothing to see here, move along.

        • WC
          April 23, 2018 at 8:53 pm

          The link that I provided is an article from Chris Hedges. It is a brief history lesson on the Chaco culture that existed long, long ago. The parallels are quite striking as to what is happening now. This is The Nature Of The Beast. The best way to illustrate that to you is your comment that Russia should launch a missile strike on the Israelis or even better yet the Saudis.

        • April 23, 2018 at 9:23 pm

          Quite so, that’s both his job, and his method of operation.

          Submit to the inevitable, and stop your grousing!

          This saith the troll.

      • Drew Hunkins
        April 23, 2018 at 9:06 pm

        Indeed it has been, our goal is to stop it.

        As I stated above, the Palestinians will eventually win this thing, but they need help, they need lots of international solidarity.

        Will you be there to contribute WC?

        • April 23, 2018 at 9:25 pm

          The troll is contributing to the eventual LOSS of the Palestinians. Patriotic duty, and all that.

        • WC
          April 23, 2018 at 9:40 pm

          Stopping The Nature Of The Beast is a very tall order. It works for a while when everyone is well-fed and happy. When things start to come apart (as they always seem to do throughout history) brings out the worst. Will it be any different this time around? We can hope so, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

          And before anyone brings up families in the Great Depression helping the destitute as an act of bringing out the best in people, may I remind you that it was also followed by WW2 which killed 80 million.

          Palestinians winning would be nice, but given the Geo-politics going on in the area that would appear a long shot at this stage of the game. Lots of international solidarity would certainly help, but in my other ear I have Paul Craig Roberts telling me they are all vassal states that bow to US pressure.

          • Drew Hunkins
            April 23, 2018 at 10:04 pm

            Your take on international solidarity is simple minded and naive. Paul Craig Roberts is correct, many state leaders are indeed quislings who do little but kowtow to Washington; it’s the people, the demos, the general citizenry where true solidarity has always been forged.

            Will you be there for the good fight, WC, or will you remain on the sidelines picking apart those of us waging battles or contributing to the struggle however large or small?

          • WC
            April 23, 2018 at 10:55 pm

            We haven’t reached a Marie Antoinette moment yet. And if the people really had a voice, all of this shit would have been over years ago.

            I am not trying to pick apart your efforts, rather I am trying to put your battle in its proper perspective. :)

        • will
          April 23, 2018 at 10:35 pm

          what exactly are you doing to stop “it” Drew? What have you done to stop anything?

      • Al Pinto
        April 23, 2018 at 11:23 pm

        Interesting read WC, thanks for the link and you are quite correct. “The parallels are quite striking as to what is happening now.”

        The question is, are we beyond the point of no return? Certainly, some grousing here and there not going to stop the inevitable, nor will it be extended to the dumbed down uneducated masses. Regardless how much the grousing people wish for…

        These grousing sort of reminds me the Linux operating system for the desktop. Since Microsoft Windows 95, the grousing from Linux fans predicted every year that Windows will die and Linux takes over. Yet, here we are in 2018 and Microsoft pretty much owns the desktops with their Windows platform. If anything the MacOS and smart devices are eating Microsoft for lunch…

        • WC
          April 24, 2018 at 12:00 am

          Thanks Al. You can obviously see the parallels to the Dark Side of human nature in Hedges’ piece.

          I’m still on Windows 7. Seriously looking at a Mac next time around.

          • Al Pinto
            April 24, 2018 at 7:52 am

            WC… about computers…

            Contrary to popular believes, Windows 7 isn’t much different from Windows 10 from the telemetry perspective. Microsoft retro-fitted Windows 7 with all of the monitoring and data collection “features” via “important patches. As such, you don’t gain much by staying with Windows from the privacy perspective. As an operating system, Windows 10 is better from the performance and security perspective than Windows 7, if you don’t care about the telemetry features.

            Mac is a good choice, Apple devices are more secure than Microsoft’s and you can opt-out from telemetry through a simple interface.

        • Sam F
          April 24, 2018 at 8:25 am

          The Chaco article simply shows the classic decline from an open society to a tyranny, which then collapses or is overthrown, usually at times of severe external or economic pressure. Never through persuasion of tyrants.

          The problem is what is inevitable. Historical parallels do not argue for inaction.
          The lessons of history should guide the focus and timing of restoration of democracy, not discourage anyone.
          If we are ready when embargoes, economic collapse, and military defeat enable restoration of democracy, everyone wins.

        • Anon
          April 24, 2018 at 8:26 am

          The Chaco article shows the usual decline from open society to tyranny, which collapses or is overthrown, usually during external or economic pressure. Tyrants do not reform.

          The problem is what is inevitable. Historical parallels do not argue for inaction. The lessons of history should guide the focus and timing of restoration of democracy, not discourage anyone.

          If we are ready when embargoes, economic collapse, and defeat enable restoration of democracy, we win. If we merely conclude that the US is “beyond the point of no return” everyone loses.

    • JWalters
      April 23, 2018 at 8:03 pm

      The deafening silence of American mainstream reporters on the blatant murders of fellow reporters, even while wearing plainly marked “PRESS” jackets, is certainly some kind of depraved depth.

      • WC
        April 23, 2018 at 8:19 pm

        True. And who gets the blame for that?

      • Realist
        April 23, 2018 at 8:21 pm

        The corporate American press is just a pack of hypocritical propagandist tools in the service of tyranny. Their lies are accepted as the truth by the American people because the actual truth tellers in alternative media have their contributions suppressed and their reputations slandered by the power elites. I gather that the situation is actually worse than in the U.S.S.R. during the peak of the cold war. At least most people there realised they were being fed lies by their leadership. Perhaps that’s because only the government was in on the ruse. In America, both the government and the corporations work hand in glove to keep the people ignorant, powerless and compliant.

        • Al Pinto
          April 23, 2018 at 11:41 pm

          Good, and unfortunately true summary of the US. Sounds like you’ve grown up in the USSR and learned early on to never trust the government.

          “The corporate American press is just a pack of hypocritical propagandist tools in the service of tyranny.”

          And even if you show them that the media is lying, the masses still trust corporate media. The only way to get out of this mess is to educate the masses and no, they will not listen to grousing. It would be a long term process to reverse the intentionally ruined US education system. Most of us will not see that, even if for any reasons the government and the oligarchs would start re-educating people today…

          • Realist
            April 24, 2018 at 1:08 am

            I grew up in the U.S.A. during the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s, which, unbeknownst to most of its citizens, was only being honest about the faults of the other side. It took the Vietnam War to open my eyes to the monumental hypocrisy and dishonesty here. In retrospect, I would have seen the sins of my society a lot sooner if I were African American, Native American, Latino or Asian American, but the targets of propaganda do not often see through the haze, especially when they’ve got it good and have no reason to rock the boat. It took the needless slaughter of my former schoolmates by the American hegemon to wake up my generation.

    • April 23, 2018 at 10:06 pm

      Drew Hawkins, I’d invite you to take a look at the Chris Hedges link provided by the troll. After you’ve examined Hedges’ somewhat overblown portrait of Anasazi society, give some thought to the utter and total dishonesty of the troll for daring to compare that situation with the one in Gaza today.

      The parallels are quite striking as to what is happening now.

      Trolling for the Outhouse Nation doesn’t require a bit of honesty, and would prove a liability for most. Recall how this one wanted us to have a good belly laugh about the murders.

      • Drew Hunkins
        April 23, 2018 at 10:26 pm

        Thanks Mr. Smith, I will definitely check it out. You of course make some trenchant and astute points.

      • WC
        April 23, 2018 at 10:26 pm

        The Troll is simply pointing out The Nature Of The Beast. Be it the Anasazi society or the Rape Of Nanking all points in the same direction.

      • Anon
        April 24, 2018 at 8:35 am

        Exactly. The Chaco article simply shows the classic decline from open society to tyranny, which does not argue for inaction, but rather that we must be ready when collapse enables restoration of democracy.

    • Abe
      April 23, 2018 at 11:22 pm

      Chris Hedges notes that “Crisis cults carry out nihilistic acts of terrorism, often in the name of religious beliefs.”

      Apartheid Israeli crisis cult celebrates its 70th anniversary with another shooting spree.

      Hasbara propaganda troll “WC” and troll army comrades pop up out of the Hasbara hole whenever there’s an Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis shooting spree to promote their so-called “proper perspective”.

      That’s the nature of the Hasbara beast.

      • WC
        April 24, 2018 at 12:24 am

        That’s true about “crisis cults”. Whether or not that applies to the whole of Israel is a matter of opinion.

        I still don’t get the tactic here in terms of what there is to gain. BannanaBoat says it’s “ethnic cleansing and genocide”. What’s the Palestinian population? 2, 3 million? Even the Germans, with their camps and ovens going full blast, would have trouble with that number.

        And Abe shouldn’t be complaining about his fetish for Hasbara propaganda trolls on this page since the subject here is right up his alley and no one is trying to change the subject. So tell us what in the hell is going on and why.

      • Abe
        April 24, 2018 at 1:46 pm

        Hasbara 101: the “still don’t get it” troll

        Hasbara propaganda troll “WC” never ever gets “it” when Israeli actions, the pro-Israel Lobby, and Israeli-Saudi-U.S. Axis warmongering are under discussion.

        Mention Israel, and comrade “WC” pops up out of the Hasbara hole ready to ‘splain’ that “it” somehow isn’t “really” about Israel.

        The Hasbara troll signature obsession is to gin up a “conversation” about something, anything other than Israel.

        Here we have “WC” vomiting that “it” is about the “nature of the beast”. Previously “WC” was vomited that “it” was about some other “big” distraction or diversion from the topic of Israel.

        The Conventional Hasbara “big game” is:

        No matter how many times what is going on and why has been clearly and accurately explained, the Hasbara trolls pop up out of their hole to ‘splain’ that “it” is “really” about some other subject, and to loudly kvetch that readers of “this site” (whatever site they’re trolling) somehow “don’t get it”.

        Grotesque hilarity ensues.

        • WC
          April 24, 2018 at 3:43 pm

          I didn’t ask you to explain your troll fetish. I asked you to explain the “tactic”. Apparently you don’t know either.

      • Abe
        April 24, 2018 at 4:26 pm

        No matter how many times what is going on and why has been clearly and accurately explained, the Hasbara trolls “don’t get it”.

        Basic Israeli tactic for starting a war:

        Escalate violent attacks on neighbor until there is some form of violent response (frequently such “responses” have been fabricated by the Israelis themselves), then shriek to high heaven that Israel has been “attacked’” as a pretext to launch the war.

        • WC
          April 24, 2018 at 8:05 pm

          Clearly, you have zero understanding of military tactics, covert or otherwise.

          You don’t shoot up a bunch of unarmed civilians and then sit back to wait for a response, and then cry foul. There are better ways to start a war than this. That is what false flags are for.

          I think they are simply saying we don’t want your protests. You know, like Kent State, the ’68 Democratic convention riots, and Tiananmen Square.

        • Abe
          April 24, 2018 at 10:54 pm

          Clearly, Hasbara propaganda trolls feign zero understanding of Israeli military and political tactics.

          Trolls like “WC” just “don’t get it”.

          Clearly, the “most moral” snipers “in the world” are busy “defending” Israel by “preventing” dastardly “terrorist organizations” from “penetrating” the pure innocent 70 year old body of the Israeli state.

          Israel’s military and political leaders speak the language of violence, incitement and war virtually every day.

          The basic Hasbara propaganda tactic is to change the subject as quickly as possible, and by any means possible, and hope no one notices.

          Back in 2009, “The Israel Project” published a propaganda manual titled “Global Language Dictionary”

          https://www.transcend.org/tms/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sf-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf

          Written by Republican pollster and political strategist Frank Luntz, the Hasbara handbook of “The Israel Project” was labeled “Not for distribution or publication”.

          The manual published by “The Israel Project” is a treasure trove of scripted propaganda canards. For example, page 96 of the manual recommends: “‘Defensive’ and ‘preventative’ are the words that best describe Israeli military action.”

          Hasbara outlets produce scripted articles, write op-eds and make television appearances to disseminate pro-Israel propaganda.

          Investigation of specific “comments” at CN reveals the web of connections between the Israeli government, major pro-Israel media organizations, and the activity of the Hasbara troll army online.

          In 2009, Israel’s foreign ministry organized volunteers to add pro-Israeli commentary on news websites. In July 2009, it was announced that the Israeli Foreign Ministry would openly conduct “internet warfare” to spread a pro-Israel message on various websites. That was already happening more covertly.

          The program has expanded to a Hasbara troll army that promotes pro-Israel policies in the press and online media.

          US/Israel-backed al-Qaeda terrorists in Syria advance the geopolitical goals of Israel, which include permanent annexation of Syria’s resource-rich Golan Heights area that Israel has occupied since 1967.

          The illusion of a “threat” to Israel guarantees an ever greater cascade of military and economic aid supplied by slavishly pro-Israel politicians in the United States.

          Hasbara propaganda additionally aims at promoting fake news and conspiracy theories to divert attention from an actual and very public conspiracies: pro-Israel lobby influence on American electoral politics and U.S. foreign policy, and Israeli-Saudi-U.S. warmongering in the Middle East.

          The basics of Hasbara propaganda are easy to identify: simplistic phrases, repeated over and over, designed to engage emotions rather than produce rational arguments, all shaped to fit into a false narrative of good (“Western-oriented” Israel, the Middle East’s “only true democracy”) versus evil (Arab/Muslim “terrorists” who seek not only to “destroy the Jewish state” but “kill all Jews:).

          To persuade Americans to accept this impoverished account of the conflict, Hasbara propaganda rewrites history, rejects international law and ignores the struggle over land and resources that is at the heart of the conflict.

          Hasbara propaganda relies on public ignorance of basic facts about international law and the history of Zionist land grab efforts in Palestine.

          Conventional Hasbara (overtly pro-Israel / pro-Zionist) propaganda works in tandem with Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist” and fake “anti-Jewish” / “anti-Semitic”) propaganda in ever more desperate efforts to “defend Israel” with a firehose of falsehood.

          The Hasbara troll army aim to deceive, distract, divert and disrupt discussion as Israel now threatens to invade Lebanon and Syria, backed by its fellow terrorist-supporter, Saudi Arabia.

          So the Hasbara troll army is busy ‘splainin’.

          • WC
            April 25, 2018 at 12:32 am

            Never one to miss an opportunity to sell his obsession, Ol’ Abe gives us another soliloquy on Hasbara propaganda trolls.

            However, the point here is shooting Palestinian protesters and what “tactic” is being employed? Since I cannot see one and Abe can’t form a logical answer that points to some gain from these actions, we can deduce it is simply a means of dissuading protesters. Looking at this in terms of magnitude (given the examples of protest I previously mentioned (hardly a full list)), we can say the Israelis are not as nice as the Americans, but far less murderous than the Chinese. This should not be considered an excuse, but rather a simple means of measure. If my relative calm on this issue is offensive to the SJWs, I understand where you are coming from but you have yet to devise any tactics of your own that will impress the status quo. If you wonder why they are treating you like dirt, it is because they have no respect for you. In a word you are not a CHALLENGE to them.

            Unable to come to terms with “The Nature Of The Beast”, Ol’ Abe will continue to spin idealistic solutions that will go nowhere.

          • Abe
            April 27, 2018 at 8:56 pm

            “WC” gives us yet another Hasbara propaganda troll soliloquy.

        • Abe
          April 25, 2018 at 2:36 pm

          Hasbara propaganda trolls vomit the “logic” of Apartheid Israel.

          Following the Israeli “simple means of measure”, the Nazi Holocaust was “simply a means of dissuading” European Jews.

          The Israeli Army death squads deployed along Gaza play integral role in the implementation of Israel’s final “solution” to the Palestinian question.

          Never one to miss an opportunity to sell the Hasbara propaganda shtick, “WC” demonstrates the true nature of the Israeli-Saudi-Axis Beast.

          If Americans knew that the overwhelming degree of deadly violence in Israel and Israeli-occupied Palestinian territory is perpetrated by Jewish Israelis, the party in the conflict with nearly all the guns and bombs and rockets…

          http://ifamericaknew.org/

          … then Americans would overwhelmingly support the realistic “solution” to this massive criminality:

          Boycott, Disinvestment, and Sanctions (BDS) until Israel agrees to abide by international law.

          Israel’s campaign of terror and annexation in Palestine must end.

          The Israeli government, the Israel Lobby and the Hasbara troll army online are devoted to preventing Americans from knowing the truth about Israel’s gross violations of international law.

      • lorem ipsum
        April 29, 2018 at 7:27 pm

        Professor Abraham L-Incoln, my former history professor? I found you by accident when I came here to read an article. I happened to come across your “troll war” and I think this is a very serious (err.. Syria-ous?) matter.

        Please allow me to offer some hope for the future. Live human bots will soon be replaced with A.I. computer bots. To prepare yourself for the next generation of cyber warfare, all you have to do is upgrade your risk analysis engine to filter out non-humans:
        http://images.techtimes.com/data/images/full/27907/no-captcha-recaptcha.jpg

        But don’t think of it as a cure-all. My sources tell me this guy is already working for the pro-Israel Lobby:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsF7enQY8uI

    • Joe
      April 24, 2018 at 8:45 am

      Drew- First of all, the ‘Jewish State’ does not recognize Palestinians as human beings, oh, they will admit a few tokens to cover their a**es, but the fact is that they are taught to regard Arabs in general as vermin. The whole “chosenness” thing should shine some light on that. The Western “establishment” is bought and paid for by a myriad of Jewish and pro-israeli lobbies and powerful individuals. I must disagree with your assessment that Palestinians will win. They will not. They have been embargoed, murdered, starved, beleaguered, had land and homes stolen, have very little potable water, etc. All at the hands of the ‘Jewish State’. And same will perpetually lie and fabricate about the true situation.

  18. mike k
    April 23, 2018 at 7:34 pm

    Americans don’t want to hear about the crimes of Israel. The Nazi Israelis who use US weapons and money to kill innocent people who they have stolen their land from. We here in the USA don’t want to know about this, just as the “good Germans did not want to know about the death camps. Gaza is the Israeli death camp for Arabs who do not belong to the Jewish master race. The people who run Israel learned their evil methods from Hitler, and we are helping them.

    What is going on, and being covered up in the US media, tells you all you need to know about the US government and it’s media lackeys. All these media persons are the worst of criminals, eager to conceal and abet genocide in Israel or Yemen or anywhere we are perpetrating it. These are the Mafia mouthpieces doing their best to cover up their bosses crimes.

    • WC
      April 23, 2018 at 7:41 pm

      Excuse me there mike k. The Israelis did not learn their methods from the Nazis. They learned them from the USA, and have often said they are doing no more than the USA did to the Indians.

      • JWalters
        April 23, 2018 at 7:54 pm

        And these methods go back at least to Deuteronomy.

        • WC
          April 23, 2018 at 8:15 pm

          I had to look that word up. In other words this craziness has been going on “at least” since the time of Moses and probably well before.

          I don’t understand the tactic behind this, apart from inducing fear.

          • April 23, 2018 at 9:30 pm

            Zionists are practicing ethnic cleansing and genocide, which even though it has antecedents, it has always been barbaric and extremely immoral.

      • Anon
        April 23, 2018 at 8:25 pm

        Mike is referring to the effect of Naziism in bringing the zionists to fascist methods, pretending to defense.
        Obviously the Israelis did not learn it from early US acts towards natives, distant in space and time.
        Wrongdoing is ancient, but Jewish fascism is poignant irony, in no way excused by early US wrongdoing.
        WC seeks to excuse Israeli fascism, lead Americans to feel part of it, and attack a good commenter.

        • will
          April 23, 2018 at 10:39 pm

          I thought they learned it from the old testament…

        • Al Pinto
          April 23, 2018 at 11:52 pm

          @Anon…

          “WC seeks to excuse Israeli fascism, lead Americans to feel part of it, and attack a good commenter.”

          Well, the Americans are part of it both financially and politically, regardless who the POTUS is. And no, I did not view his/her comment as endorsement of the Israeli fascism or attack of a poster…

          • Anon
            April 24, 2018 at 8:41 am

            Americans are not part of zionist wrongdoing except as a result zionist tyranny here.
            America certainly did not inspire it. So WC was intentionally wrong on all points.

  19. Anon
    April 23, 2018 at 6:58 pm

    Russia could make missile strikes on Israel in response to these massacres on the same principle as the US strikes in Syria, and at least should inquire why the US does not do so.

    It would be safer and more effective to strike Saudi Arabia in response to the Yemen massacres, halting oil exports to set the price of US intervention in Syria, and to draw the line on Syria and Iran. The simplest course would be to threaten this quietly, and let the infantile tyrants of the US go make noise somewhere else to distract from Syria.

    Perhaps Russia has done so.

    But with the US forming mercenary armies in Iraq, perhaps Russia should go ahead, state the problem and the red lines crossed, and make an economically crippling strike on Saudi Arabia, coupled with threats against any retaliation.

    • April 23, 2018 at 10:18 pm

      But with the US forming mercenary armies in Iraq, perhaps Russia should go ahead, state the problem and the red lines crossed, and make an economically crippling strike on Saudi Arabia, coupled with threats against any retaliation.

      I can’t keep up with it all, but there is supposedly another mercenary army which bears watching. Seems the US has trained and equipped a very large force in Jordan just across the border from Daraa, Syria. Taking that city and holding it by the Good Terrorists will help ensure Syria remains divided into pieces. Something Israel wants, of course.

      • Anon
        April 24, 2018 at 7:15 am

        Yes, the US apparently has a base in Jordan and near Deraa. The Jordanians are said to be almost entirely against the US presence but their government allows this. Perhaps Russian missiles will stray from their course.

  20. April 23, 2018 at 6:41 pm

    It occurs to me that if the Israeli actress Natalie Portman wants to see for herself what is happening, she ought to get herself invited to the Gaza side of this activity. And maybe visit the hospitals where the hundreds of Palestinian amputees are being “treated”.

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