The newspaper quoted unnamed “U.S. officials” who refused to talk about the “intelligence” that blames a pro-Ukraine group not linked to Kiev and that conveniently points the story away from possible U.S. involvement, reports Joe Lauria.
Site of the Nord Stream 2 attack. (Danish Defense Ministry)
By Joe Lauria
Special to Consortium News
A shadowy “pro-Ukraine group” that had no ties to the Ukrainian government blew up the Nord Stream pipelines last September, The New York Times reported on Tuesday, citing anonymous “U.S. officials” who called it “the first significant known lead about who was responsible for the attack.”
The second paragraph of the 2,039-word story averts blame from the Ukrainian government, which has been portrayed in Western media as worthy of unconditional support as the victim of an “unprovoked” Russian attack.
“U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials,” the Times said.
“Ukrainian government and military intelligence officials say they had no role in the attack and do not know who carried it out,” the Times says. But it added that “Ukraine and its allies have been seen by some officials as having the most logical potential motive to attack the pipelines.”
The report says that any suggestion of direct or indirect Ukrainian involvement could sour “support among a German public that has swallowed high energy prices in the name of solidarity” with Ukraine.
The newspaper also warns that:
“Any findings that put blame on Kyiv or Ukrainian proxies could prompt a backlash in Europe and make it harder for the West to maintain a united front in support of Ukraine.
U.S. officials and intelligence agencies acknowledge that they have limited visibility into Ukrainian decision-making.”
The Times reports in the fifth paragraph of its story that its unnamed sources refuse to talk about the intelligence, which doesn’t provide any “firm” conclusions.
“U.S. officials declined to disclose the nature of the intelligence, how it was obtained or any details of the strength of the evidence it contains. They have said that there are no firm conclusions about it, leaving open the possibility that the operation might have been conducted off the books by a proxy force with connections to the Ukrainian government or its security services.” the newspaper said.
The newspapers’ sources know very little about who these suspects are that they are now pointing to.
“U.S. officials said there was much they did not know about the perpetrators and their affiliations,” the paper said. “The review of newly collected intelligence suggests they were opponents of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, but does not specify the members of the group, or who directed or paid for the operation.”
The report says the individuals involved were “most likely Ukrainian or Russian nationals, or some combination of the two.” To leave no doubts, the paper reports that “U.S. officials said no American or British nationals were involved.”
The Times says European officials investigating the sabotage say it was “probably state sponsored, possibly because of the sophistication with which the perpetrators planted and detonated the explosives on the floor of the Baltic Sea without being detected.”
But U.S. officials “have not stated publicly that they believe the operation was sponsored by a state.” The report does not say whether they believe that privately.
Because of the sophistication of the operation, the newspaper cites “U.S. officials who have reviewed the new intelligence” as saying that “the explosives were most likely planted with the help of experienced divers who did not appear to be working for military or intelligence services,” but who may have “received specialized government training in the past.”
A European elected official who spoke to the newspaper said “an estimated 45 ‘ghost ships’ whose location transponders were not on or were not working when they passed through the area, possibly to cloak their movements. The lawmaker was also told that more than 1,000 pounds of ‘military grade’ explosives were used by the perpetrators.”
The C.I.A. declined to comment for the Times report and the White House told the newspaper to talk to European officials conducting their own probes.
For the first time in its news columns, The New York Times mentions a report last month by one of its former prized investigative reporters, Seymour Hersh, who also relied on an anonymous source to provide a detailed account of how the United States, with the approval of President Joe Biden and using U.S. Navy divers, carried out the sabotage.
The Times, however, did not provide a link to the Hersh report published on his Substack page, which has gained traction around the world.
The newspaper does refer to Hersh citing a “preinvasion threat” by Biden “cryptically” telling a press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz in February 2022 that if Russia invaded Ukraine “there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.” When a German reporter asked how, Biden said, “I promise you we’ll be able to do it.”
But the Times adds: “U.S. officials say Mr. Biden and his top aides did not authorize a mission to destroy the Nord Stream pipelines, and they say there was no U.S. involvement.”
Joe Lauria is editor-in-chief of Consortium News and a former U.N. correspondent for The Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, and numerous other newspapers, including The Montreal Gazette and The Star of Johannesburg. He was an investigative reporter for the Sunday Times of London, a financial reporter for Bloomberg News and began his professional work as a 19-year old stringer for The New York Times. He can be reached at [email protected] and followed on Twitter @unjoe
“The newspaper quoted unnamed “U.S. officials” who refused to talk about the “intelligence” that blames a pro-Ukraine group not linked to Kiev and that conveniently points the story away from possible U.S. involvement,” FULL Context, above; &, for the following: “U.S. officials decline to disclose”…, “Much they did not know” … “the WH told the newspapers,” …..
“WHO is Karine Jean-Pierre?!?” And, the kicker, “U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials,” No $h*t, Jack!!!
Imo, the Universe is L.O.L! “But, IF, the people all buy in tears, we’ll be rich, one day, Ma. Look what they’ve done to my Song.” F/eh. “Anonymous” is in The White House; and, “Mums the f/word!” Not f/today. How the Nordstream Pipeline was blown the flock up & by whom, is a Good Man’s WORK!!! &, the WH is scared $h*tless! Netflick’s work’n overtime trying to “green screen” everything!
The bonus is, “We, the People,” know, everything. The who, what, when, where, why & f/HOW. AND, so do “they,”
— “Because of the sophistication of the operation, the newspaper cites “U.S. officials who have reviewed the new intelligence” as saying that “the explosives were most likely planted with the help of experienced divers who did not appear to be working for military or intelligence services,” but who may have “received specialized government training in the past.” Fremdschämen!!! Their source: “How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline-The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now.” Seymour Hersh, 2.8.23
“!!!” ‘Those in power must feel our wrath.’ “We, the People” will NOT be rendered unconscious by the alternative, mainstream, cable network news corporations, social media platforms and/or The White House.”
“ORGANIZED POWER FROM BELOW is the only power that can save us. Politics is a game of fear. It is our duty to make those in power very, very afraid. Off with their heads!” ‘to quote the Queen of Hearts, metaphorically, of course.” (CHRIS HEDGES).
TY, Joe Lauria, CN, et al. “KEEP IT LIT.”
Since the bombing took place, personally,, I haven’t read anywhere that Ukraine was involved.And to this,no one is blaming Ukraine.So I don’t see reason why they’re talking about them. Also,the paper cites new intelligence. When was the earlier intelligence report and what did it say? But,more importantly,until the United States States prove that they were not involved given Biden’s vow to end NordStream and under secretaries report to Congress regarding the sabotage, any denial or everything they say means absolutely nothing.
Thank you very much J A for these insights.
I’d like on focus on the Times statements following, The newspaper also warns that:
“Any findings that put the blame on Kyiv or Ukrainian proxies could prompt a backlash in Europe and make it harder for the west to maintain a united front in support of Ukraine.
US officials and intelligence agencies acknowledge that they have limited visibility in Ukrainian decision making.”
And his last last comment in the article, But Times adds: “US officials say Mr. Biden and his top aids did not authorize a mission to destroy the Nord stream pipeline and they say there was no US involvement.”
Understanding simply just how awful US intelligence has become, be it laziness, arrogance or out right incompetence these statements seem to reveal this bullshit as propaganda and bad propaganda at that. Being sold as a warning by the paper exposes intent, then the comments alledgedly made the US officials about mission authorizations, and that the was no Us involvement!
Ask yourself what the hell else would anyone expect the administrations position to be.
The longer this shit storm brews the worse Uncle Joe & Co. will look and the look is already very bad.
In an earlier comment some one made a statement about Nuland types drifting in and out of heady positions in our government and rightly so, a reference to Nuland I believe being on VP Shooter Chainie’s staff a holdover Bush era neocon. I have looked for the comment twice now and I’m going blind. trying to find it, but it’s sweet line because it is so true.
What exactly do we call a neocan democratic POTUS, because that is what we have leading us now.
Thanks CN
NYT being late to crash the party is revealing in and of itself. Stating Biden and his top officials “did not authorize” the sabotage implies reads like a bone tossed to the truly credulous among their readership.
Strictement de la désinformation du NYT.
Why on Earth should I believe ANYTHING that comes from an American media outlet??? All the lies (about any inconvenient subject) that have been fed the public and too many of these lies originating with government support.
More like government dictate in some cases.
Call me a conspiracy nut but I assumed from day one that the USA probably blew it up and that many “liberal” Americans who consume only MSM would approve. Sort of like the WMD debacle…
Biden claimed Russia did it… remember?
Nice try Jim. LOL
The NYT has lost their credibility.
now, the once-upon-the-new-york-times has officially settled between the works of the brothers grimm and joseph goebbels. they just lack the moral value of the grimm’s fairy tales, and the subtlety and credibility of goebbels’s propaganda.
Ahhhh…NYTs? Credibility? Really?
When in the past quarter of a century has the NYTs been anything but a reliable mouth piece for the always unnamed sources working inside the US State Department, CIA, & DOJ? Who believes any of them?
Ventriloquist Edgar Bergman’s talking dummy Charlie McCarthy was far more credible and even more independent than anything now published in either the NYTs or Washington Post.
Pure unadulterated BS. An operation of this magnitude requires the resources only a state actor can provide. It may very well be that the actual op was carried out by Ukrainian nationals, however the equipment, logistics, and the ability to keep all this covert, still nonetheless points to a state actor. The US had the most to gain in this event. Forcing Germany to cut all ties to Russia, at a time when the US was deeply concerned that Germany might start treating Russia in an unapproved manner. Further, this minimizes Germany economically – a boon for US conglomerates, and will force Germany to buy yet more expensive war crap from the americans. Not to mention very expensive LNG.
This was an act of war, committed by america against the Russian Federation. Kudos for Russia *not* blowing up the world in revenge. I do, however, fervently wish that Russia has the wherewithal and the incentive to ‘act in kind’. Modern america has never experienced that which they dole out to comparatively weak countries, and then crow about how they kicked their asses. On the one hand, I hope americans in the main never do experience ‘freedom and democracy’ as practiced by the US military, but on t’uther hand, nothing short of that kind of pain will change average american opinion regarding washington’s war agenda. I don’t hate america, but I sure do not like it much either.
It was chiefly an act of war against GERMANY, a NATO “ally”. Of course the U.S. wanted to weaken Germany, so it summoned lickspittle Scholz to come to the principal’s office for a paddling. A dying empire is a very dangerous thing.
I mean, we all know the US is a Ukrainian proxy.
Does the NYT know that?!!
There is no sarcasm button.
I find myself thinking of the group of U.S. retired intelligence officials who made a big pre-election point of saying that Hunter Biden was the victim of Russian disinformation.
My nomination for the “pro-Ukraine group” would be those determined warmchair warriors, the Neocons.
The Neocons are discussed at some length by Glen Greenwald here.
Warmongering Neocons Smitten with Biden
hXXps://rumble.com/v2be21o-system-update-show-49.html
The neocons are discussed and dissected by Garland Nixon all the time. I recommend his show.
It is important to understand the real meanings in “leaked” information.
“U.S. officials” who refused to talk about the “intelligence”
Translation : We did it but we do not like to boast about our successes.
“U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation,
Translation : Ukraine asked us to go ahead with our plan as soon as possible.
“U.S. officials said no American or British nationals were involved.”
Translation : The job was carried out by a joint USA/UK navy team.
‘military grade’ explosives were used by the perpetrators.
Translation : The explosives were water proof.
The “shadowy” pro-Ukraine group is the U.S. government.
Yep.
After all the weapons of mass destruction owned by Sadam Hussein, why would anyone believe anything published by the NYT?
Our country (the US) is full of smart people who ought to know better, full of denial and self-righteous indignation. It’s sickening.
NY Times headline: “Wild Lipstick-Smeared Pig Blew Up Pipelines”.
Interesting that the Times’ account indicates Germany is tricky. Let’s not put a possibility the Ukraine State did this (the newsroom must have worried), although the plan’s sophistication (including 45 ghost ships, what’s with that?) indicates, yes, a State Operation.
A nervous time in the newsroom here with the main objective get a new story out to CNN et al and get the quick dismissal of US “pre-operation indications of guilt” out of the way asap. As to Germany, they’re already pissed off, got to be careful how we phrase this (the solidarity issue), and make sure Zelensky’s denial fits with his wonder-boy Man of the Year imagery, despite how he’s managing the Ukraine catastrophe.
The main problem is there’s already a load of suspicion out there to deal with, and it’s global. So keep it brief, general, and overall simply assertive, that disgruntled Ukranians and Russians must have done it, and get a team working on how to combat Hersh, who is bound to respond with something about our “findings” here.
Because that’s the main problem for anyone who has been interested and read his report. But here’s the thing: If Hersh is incorrect that means his source or sources fed him a story with incredible detail including interior problems with the engineers of the explosions up against a White House on when and how to do it, etc. Hersh additionally has decades of experience and credibility plus a number of prizes back in the day when he could get paid decently for his investigations. Hersh’s credibility is at about a 47-3 NFL score analogy at this point, late in the fourth quarter.
As to the 45 ‘ghost ships’, this would be further indication of a state sponsored op, as in the technology available and in practice on vessels operating in open waters, to monitor that ‘traffic’. Most likely one or more ‘stealth’ subs.
Thanks for this. Wouldn’t this factor also throw doubt on the latest small yacht story, staffed by six people, that blew the lines? Hersh indicates the pipelines lay in a heavily surveilled area, one of the reasons for a covering exercise when the explosives were planted . . .
What kind of intelligence is it that provides no information about what their nationalities are, who financed them, who they are affiliated with or where the intelligence even comes from? Might as well just say “we have intelligence obtained from a digitally decoded cow fart that someone, anyone really, except the USA or Ukraine or UK, blew up Nordstream, but we have absolutely NO IDEA who. It was just definitely not the party that promised to destroy it and is celebrating its destruction now.”
Deconstructing / restating the NYT report then:
I. It is based on claims from anonymous ‘Officials’ in the U.S..
A. These ”officials” can’t be id’d nor even reveal their position.
B. They do not reveal the source(s) of the “intel” they are forwarding.
C. What they are stating to NYT is not actually ‘information’, but their conclusions.
D. Their conclusions aren’t ‘firm’.
E. They won’t discuss any of the (so-called) ‘intelligence’- nothing at all to explain or justify their conclusion. And nothing that might open a door for anyone to question or rebut it. .
II. The “Intel” source(s) don’t know who did it; nor with what affiliations,
A. Some pro-Ukraine group might have done it; but they don’t know of any such group.
B. Ukraine gov’t & military deny involvement, but we (NYT) will open the door to that possibility in order to give a possible scapegoat and deflect any blame from the U.S. and UK or other allies.
C. Categorically, the U.S. and UK were NOT involved.
1. While Pres. Biden said in Feb. ’22, ‘if Russia invades Ukraine, we’ll bring an end to Nord Stream, and ‘…we’ll be able to do it’, we must believe there was no U.S. involvement.
III. CIA won’t comment, and White house says the paper should ‘talk to European officials’ about their own probes.
(Yet, It’s already been made clear that European investigations, to the extent conducted, are secret and the NYT may as well bark at the moon and wait for a reply. )
**********************************
>> Ergo: Our readers should just accept this declaration as a priori truth, along with all of our other fine world affairs reporting.
*************************************
This is a new low even for the NYT. It’s not even good fiction.
Sy Hersh’s report was released on February 8th. Today is March 5th. It took the NYT a little more than 3 weeks to put their bullshit story together. I realize they were under tremendous pressure from the Biden Administration to stop the hemorrhaging Biden, Blinken, Nulan and Sullivan have been experiencing ever since the publication of “How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipelines”. But they obviously needed a lot more time and a much better alibi for the winking, blinking and nod crowd if they expected to avoid the kind of Bronx cheer they are receiving from the above commentators.
Most of the NYT commenters to the article are equally excoriating. Yea !
That comments section is full of bourgeois liberals foaming at the mouth over Trump, Putin, and lefties of all stripes. It’s the mirror-image of the FOX news comments…
The CIA doesn’t know what happened (what do we pay them for? LOL). How is The New York Times guna know they don’t have Julian Assange to ask at the moment?
To be fair The CIA was too busy reading my emails.
Looks like Biden and Co. are not enjoying the expansion of this subject around the world, no doubt with pressure from Europe to fix the problem ASAP. Some people might be feeling the cold in Germany and we don’t want that.
Just another piece of poor judgement by the powers that be, Biden, Blinken, Nuland. What a trio.
Good to see that the NYT is still in lockstep with US government policy, that is, no truth to be written….at any price. The newspaper of (false) record? What a joke.
So, well done, NYT. You are maintaining the standard of the US (and world) media whores
Well just a minute, America, Norway, and the UK constitute a group. I won’t tell you a group of what, it’s unprintable, but in this instance , no matter its propaganda effects on a million diminished minds, the “group” is a valid term for what occurred, so they are proâgandizing without outright lying, except for those who are lying outrightly.
You have got to laugh when they begin the NYTs story with “New intelligence reporting amounts to the first significant known lead about who was responsible for the attack on the Nord Stream …” which completely ignores the Sy Hersh article that appeared weeks ago and which is actually mentioned in the NYTs article.
The NYTs story starts with a conclusion (the USA and/or Zelensky didn’t do it) and then works backward to speculate who might have done it with no details but being sure to say over and over it was not the USA. Clearly Washington is feeling the heat from Hersh and must now create a counter-narrative on its primo propaganda tool – the NYTs — the same paper used for all those fake WMDs in Iraq. I guess neocon hopes that the public would forget about Nord Stream apparently didn’t come true since anti-war protests are growing in Europe.
Dear me, how pathetic coverage in our nominal paper of record has become. No identifiable sources at all. No questioning of what they allegedly said (only one statement of which was a transparent bald-faced lie rather than simple egregious misdirection). Not even any attempt to consider exactly what ‘shadowy “pro-Ukraine group”’ might have been responsible by examining their own NYT archives which covered the same kind of’ shadowy behavior (by a pro-coup group rather than anything legitimately characterizable as a ‘pro-Ukraine group) back in 2014 when a coup was arranged to overthrow the democratically-elected Ukraine government in broad daylight not only by passing out cookies to the insurrectionists but by those who had actively helped organize them (as later proven by intercepted communications) and later boasted of having supported them to the tune of $5 billion.
Has the NYT become dependent upon grade-school children for its reporting? Does anyone actually pay for its drivel any more?
“U.S. officials and intelligence agencies acknowledge that they have limited visibility into Ukrainian decision-making.” Give me a break. Zelensky does nothing without the nod from the U.S. or NATO.
I have lived and learned since WW II. I recognize propaganda when I see it.
“’U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials,’the Times said.'”
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. (thanks to D Rumsfeld for the riposte)
Good on you. Now we only need 3 million, 2 hundred and ninety-nine americans to open their eyes and see what you see. Do you see that happening anytime soon?
Hell no it’s not going to happen, we have our work cut out for us
So, the NYT (“All the news that fits the narrative…”) is claiming to be more credible than Seymour Hersh? Is that a joke?
Who said the NYT doesn’t have a sense of humor..?
NYT: All the news that’s shit we print.
I suppose it is still news of a sort that the NYT should go so low. It’s not as though we have not seen it, but it seems to take people a while to digest.
What’s the best way to approach the business of pointing out that the goons are just lying?–in terms of a media analysis, I mean, or an institutional analysis that one might undertake so that there is not this business of having to refute the “paper of record” with more or less every fresh story of note?
Does it make more sense to deconstruct these stories one by one as they get invented and rolled out, or would it work better to update Chomsky & Herman’s ’89 Mfg Consent to show how these institutions eroded with the loss of business upon the rise of the Net?
At least among older people like myself, this vestigial faith in the institutions and the epistemology of the 20th Century has become a source of great ignorance.
The level of skill and equipment requd is beyond a non state group. This is clear NYT disinformation. I’m with Hersch
I stopped reading the NYT and ended my subscription
Years ago.
All the news that’s fit to print is now the mouthpiece for the Empire of Deceit.
The NYT story itself was a total nothing burger which will not play well at all on the world stage.
The fact that the NYT finally utters a few words about the sabotage a full month after Hersh’s story came out shows that they fear that their attempt at smothering Hersh’s story has failed. (Good!)
But they could hardly have uttered anything more feeble & pathetic than this. Their article claims “new intelligence,” but doesn’t say a word about what this “new intelligence” is. And the whole piece is full of references to anonymous “American officials.”
Perhaps the most ridiculously eye-rolling claim in the NYT piece is, “…the explosives were most likely planted with the help of experienced divers who did not appear to be working for military or intelligence services…”
– I mean, how could such a thing possibly be ascertained? There’s no way of telling whether divers appear, don’t appear, to be “working for military or intelligence services.” And I wonder where they got all that C4 from….
Yes this is probably one of the most obvious pieces of state-propaganda in the NYT since 9/11, or at least since Russiagate
Wouldn’t the US government and all the people Hersh named be considered a ‘pro-Ukraine’ group?
Pathetic and putrid. Period.
Hahaha!
Echoing or in parallel with everyone else’s comments, I literally laughed out loud when I read just the title; and it grew so loud and forceful that my wife came running to see what was up. Even she, normally considerably less cynical about the ‘paper of record’ and MSM in general, shared in the laugh as we hit all the highlights in this article.
She is now getting to see on a daily basis, the almost archetype-perfect forms of propaganda.
It’s as if NYT has absolutely no shame, and it looks as if no one who works there might even have the capacity for it. Nor do they seem at all concerned that, even after the damages of the Judy Miller (and other) fiascoes, their loss of credibility with discerning folk might be their own demise. As others have noted, it’s abundantly clear that on foreign policy matters, they are willing mouthpieces for a war-mongering, anti-democratic power establishment and nothing more.
That the anonymous ” U.S. officials” specifically state that no U.S. or British nationals were involved tells us what? Well, given that these same types keep stipulating that Russia’s operation in Ukraine was “unprovoked”, it suggests that both the U.S. and the UK governments and personnel were, indeed, involved.
In any case, all investigations of crime depend on narrowing the suspects based on motive, opportunity, and means. The U.S. had more of all of these than anyone. And knowing how NATO (and the U.S.’ European vassals) reflect almost without any questioning, U.S. goals and strategies, it would be ludicrous to believe that any other state acted without at least U.S. approval and support.
This seems so self-evident that it shouldn’t even be necessary to point it out. But there are still many who swallow NYT and WaPo pabulum.
Looking for how to assess the truth, I think you’ve nailed it with “motive, opportunity, and means.”
Once again, we are told to believe “unnamed officials” who reach conclusions based on “secret evidence”. No thanks. The credibility of the U.S. is so low that it seems to me that the people orchestrating these lies would be better served to just say nothing at all rather than concoct these incredible stories. Sy Hersh is credible. The U.S. is not. It is also convenient that the investigation being conducted by Sweden, Germany and Denmark (or is it complete or is there really any such investigation?), although secret, has, according to reports, also concluded that the U.S. definitely did not blow up the pipeline. I did not believe the Iraq weapons of mass destruction lies either. After the Tonkin Gulf lies, I quit believing the U.S. statements about important matters unless backed by hard evidence.
Ah, hey, hey, remember when much of the Western mass media were telling us that in a fit of masochistic rage Putin decided to sabotage his own lucrative pipeline, remember that?
Coming shortly after the meeting between Biden and Scholz, this deliberate US government leak of an absurd story is an implicit admission that Biden did indeed give the order to destroy the NordStream pipeline.
Scholz traveled all the way across the Atlantic to meet Biden while studiously avoiding all contacts with the media, which is unprecedented for a visit of State. Facing the media together, the two would invariably be confronted by uncomfortable question to which they would have to answer with a straight lie if the didn’t want to blow Nato to smithereens. But since national leaders can’t avoid the media indefinitely, they had to come up with a way of laying a false trail.
One should have thought that the combined imagination of the Neocon establishment would have come up with a more plausible story, but they are apparently running out of lies to tell.
It’s obvious that the NordStream attack could only have been committed by a State actor with the approval of Nato and the cooperation of Sweden to clean up the crime scene and keep the evidence under lock. That is clearly beyond the means of a group of anonymous individuals of Ukrainian or Russian origin.
The waters around the island of Bornholm are so full of Nato sensors that you can’t put a small rowing boat into the waters without half a dozen alarms signs flashing in some Nato observation post. The Swedes obviously have all the evidence including the two explosive devices that didn’t explode. Nato countries know exactly who did it.
Didn’t they learn anything from Watergate? The coverup makes the crime even worse.
OK, so NOT the Russians then. That’s progress, I guess.
NYT = PRAVDA
You can scoff at the NYT propaganda outlet, but “There were 6.37 million paid subscribers to The New York Time Company’s digital-only news product in the fourth quarter of 2022.” That’s what we’re up against.
@micknolangalway
This is what I posted earlier over on Moon of Alabama…..
Right. You have to get out into the Baltic, in Swedish territorial waters, you’ve got to have powerful explosives not normally available to the average Joe on the street, you’ve got to have remote detonating devices also not normally available to the average Joe on the street, and finally, you’ve got to do this at night because boats floating in the same spot just off the coast of that island will attract attention. Right Your average non-state actors can pull that sort of thing off especially if they are as good as your average klutzy Ukie.
Please pull the other one, it has the bells on it. …
Washington has the brains of the majority of Americans (maybe a vast majority) so saturated in propaganda and misinformation that they will almost certainly buy this story of a mysterious pro-Ukraine group that nobody has ever heard of which has all of the technology and ships and deep-water skills and CIA/MI6-style stealth gear and expertise needed to blow up the Nordstreams and never leave a trace. Washington doesn’t care if we don’t buy it because we are the lost souls floating around in the Internet consulting all those newsites that we’ve been warned against, so nobody’s gonna believe us anyway.
Maybe NOT a vast majority of Americans. I, for one, don’t drink the Kool-Aid, rely only on alternative, independent media and have known the U.S. government to be a devious, aggressive, scheming, oppressor since the days of Vietnam. Of course, there are still too many rubes who will buy anything that doesn’t require them to think too much while repeating that they are “not into” politics. Well, to paraphrase Leon Trotsky, “You may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you.”
Let me guess – the “pro-Ukrainian group” consists of Sullivan, Nuland, Blinken and the Big Guy himself…
You forgot BJ in that list. You know, that bloke who’s just nominated his father for a knighthood.
You’re right – how could I have forgotten good old BJ.
More seriously, it’s an interesting coincidence that this story is being floated the day after Scholz made his way to Washington. This could be propaganda pablum provided for the benefit of the benighted Germans, whose press is even more propagandistic and whose state censors are even more heavy-handed than in the USA. At least in the USA, despite the mainstream lockstep conformity, there is a proud tradition of individualists and dissenters – in Europe such people are being increasingly repressed.
I don’t think it’s coincidence. They were deciding who to blame; Miss Scarlett in the conservatory with the dagger, or Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick? But in the end they plumped for some bizarre Ukranian underworld team of divers with access to military grade explosives.
Fully agree – great analogy. I should have added “/s” after “coincidence”, indicating sarcasm.
Our media – other than CN, Glenn Greenwald, Max Blumenthal and a handful of others – are an outright catastrophic train wreck. It’s like being in one of the totalitarian states of the last century, and I don’t mean the Soviet Union, as their propaganda was not sophisticated enough to be believed. But at least there is still enough freedom here to think, talk and post. And the weather reporting is more accurate than in the past.
No, Boris is more like the errand boy.
Yeah, I’m enjoying a vision of Nuland asking for more and more weights to keep her down long enough to get in on the action, with her water-proof cookies for the rest of the Our Gang adventure.
No suprise there, If US and EU have succeeded in not being held accountable for millions of deaths, hundred of thousands children in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam, etc, why would they be held accountable for blowing up a Russian pipeline? and again, who sold the lies is the same news paper that said Iraq had WMD.
However, today we are all, including Chinese, Russian, global south, large portion of European population, Africa, LA, etc, at war with US, European establishment and mainstream media, some might not yet realizing it but the war will only get worse as we go along.
It wont’ be easy for US government, for those politicians who have supported the war in Ukraine to get away with it… unless, and that’s my biggest worry, at the end, when US recognize the defeat, it changes political strategy and strikes an unexpected deal with China; if that happen, if China and US goes hand to hand it would be almost impossible to held their leadership accountable, the might of those two countries working together would be astonishing, but lets pretend it is pure nonsense, lets believe we have the chance to held our governments for their past and present crimes, lets make them pay, the time is ripe.
first and foremost lets boycott elections, if voter turnout falls below a 30% democracy fails, at the end we know now that it does not matter who is going to be elected, it will be hell anyway
Nord Stream was not just a Russian pipeline. It was also a German pipeline that was supplying gas to Germany, and Germany was selling any excess to the rest of Europe. It was basically an attack on Germany and the rest of NATO. It didn’t hurt the Russians at all. They are selling gas and other resources to China, India, and lots of other countries in Asia and the global south. The destruction of Nord Stream caused the most damage to Germany, not only to the citizens who were going to really feel the cold, but to industry which must now pay exorbitant prices for imported LNG from — surprise, surprise — the USA.
The Yankees love to obfuscate. They seem to think like the 8 year old boy who stands next to an empty cookie jar with chocolate chips smeared on his lips and crumbs covering his shirt, loudly claiming that his little brother’s sister’s friend actually ate the cookies. They believe that as long as they deny, then no one will realize that they just scored a good cookie snack.
Who knows, their parents were probably dumb enough to buy the Big Cookie Lie, given the evidence of the intellect of their offspring.
I agree, but Yankees? The Brits are just as bad, two peas in a pod. Just look at the Freak Show that passes as UK politics. Boris bloody Johnson? Tony f-in Blair is not in prison? Assange is being tortured in the UK after all. So, please tone down on blame the yanks.
Then there are the Crimes of the British Empire, but that’s another story…
This makes it official: the NY Times is a propaganda arm of the U.S. government. This is the government’s cover story to counter Seymour Hersh’s reporting. The Times ignored Hersh’s reporting but publishes this baloney at the government’s bidding. No doubt the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, PBS and the major networks will follow suit.
The NY Times has always been the propaganda arm of the U.S. government. The lateness in coming up with “the dog ate my homework” is due to the fact that they were making up this cockamamie argument.
Well, gee, I guess that settles it. If the NY Times says so it must be, huh? ……….This reeks of a hastily put-together plan to deflect attention away from Hersh’s reporting and to at least sow doubt about who sabotaged the pipeline. …………. Sadly, after THIS (non) story bounces around the corporate media echo chamber, there’ll be a substantial portion of the public who’ll take it in at face value. After all, it was in the NY Times! ….and Rachel got all huffy and said, “ya’ see, I told ya’ so – the US had nothing to do with it”.
“US officials said” ….. that’s good enough for a NY Times front page. Hersh’s detailed reporting from an anonymous source on the inside?? nope – can’t even mention that story.
US imperial managers colluding with the NY Times to push official narratives is certainly nothing new. WMD anyone?? …… This propaganda effort is also aimed at placating a German public who just might be wondering how far their gov’t will sell them out to maintain its position as the USA’s top poodle.
Why on earth would anyone believe the NYT? They have no record of credibility. And they appear often to function as a pipeline for lies by the US government branches. Anyone remember Judy Miller with her close contacts with Dick Cheney and Victoria Nuland in the VP’s office and the lies about WMDs? So, I’ll repeat the question …. why on earth would anyone believe the NYT?
And, if you can’t believe the NYT, why on earth would you read the NYT?
OK, I understand trained professionals like Mr. Lauria monitoring the NYT for tea leaves as to how we can expect to be treated by the spies, generals and oligarchs … but for ordinary people, there is no value in reading the NYT, and it can be quite dangerous to you by opening up your mind to mindcontrol. I wouldn’t expose birds in a cage to the NYT as something to catch their droppings.
It amazes me that people still think it’s cool to carry the NYT around on Sundays. It shows me that they have no common sense and VERY short memories.
I’m not Superman, but like the way you think, Lois Lane. Reading the NYT is not worth the trouble of sifting out the lies.
They are ALL criminals.
Well this certainly does muddy the waters. How could any reasonable person doubt the New York Times and its “anonymous U.S. officials?? Why that’s just about as close to incontrovertible evidence as one can get. Isn’t it?
Thanks for monitoring the media cartel Joe, one has to have a strong stomach (and a sense of humor) to do so.
The NYT, the propaganda of record. After the Saddam Hussein has WMD transparent, bald-faced, warmongering lies (and so much more BS) it’s a wonder how the NYT, WaPo and other Mass Media Cartel outlets have not become laughingstocks and objects of ridicule and jokes.
I’m sure I’m not alone here in my contemptuous scoff at the NYT.
Jonny James—- I too often find the NYT to be lacking lacking in truths——NYC does not mean New York City to me, but simply — New York Crimes( against the reading public)
The NYT could not be any lamer or more despicable.
The “Guardian” is saying the same thing. Strange it took them so long to arrive at this conjecture. And so soon after Mr. Hersh’s findings.