House Intelligence Committee Chair Devin Nunes has stated that “DOJ and FBI are not above the law,” and could face legal consequences for alleged abuses of the FISA court, reports Ray McGovern.
By Ray McGovern
Throwing down the gauntlet on alleged abuse of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) by the Department of Justice and the FBI, House Intelligence Committee Chair Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) stated that there could be legal consequences for officials who may have misled the FISA court. “If they need to be put on trial, we will put them on trial,” he said. “The reason Congress exists is to oversee these agencies that we created.”
Devin Nunes gives an interview with Full Measure’s Sharyl Attkisson.
Nunes took this highly unusual, no-holds-barred stance during an interview with Emmy-award winning investigative journalist Sharyl Attkisson, which aired on Sunday.
Attkisson said she had invited both Nunes and House Intelligence Committee Ranking Member Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) but that only Nunes agreed. She asked him about Schiff’s charge that Nunes’ goal was “to put the FBI and DOJ on trial.” What followed was very atypical bluntness — candor normally considered quite unacceptable in polite circles of the Washington Establishment.
Rather than play the diplomat and disavow what Schiff contended was Nunes’ goal, Nunes said, in effect, let the chips fall where they may. He unapologetically averred that, yes, a criminal trial might well be the outcome. “DOJ and FBI are not above the law,” he stated emphatically. “If they are committing abuse before a secret court getting warrants on American citizens, you’re darn right that we’re going to put them on trial.”
Die Is Cast
The stakes are very high. Current and former senior officials — and not only from DOJ and FBI, but from other agencies like the CIA and NSA, whom documents and testimony show were involved in providing faulty information to justify a FISA warrant to monitor former Trump campaign official Carter Page — may suddenly find themselves in considerable legal jeopardy. Like, felony territory.
This was not supposed to happen. Mrs. Clinton was a shoo-in, remember? Back when the FISA surveillance warrant of Page was obtained, just weeks before the November 2016 election, there seemed to be no need to hide tracks, because, even if these extracurricular activities were discovered, the perps would have looked forward to award certificates rather than legal problems under a Trump presidency.
Thus, the knives will be coming out. Mostly because the mainstream media will make a major effort – together with Schiff-mates in the Democratic Party – to marginalize Nunes, those who find themselves in jeopardy can be expected to push back strongly.
If past is precedent, they will be confident that, with their powerful allies within the FBI/DOJ/CIA “Deep State” they will be able to counter Nunes and show him and the other congressional investigation committee chairs, where the power lies. The conventional wisdom is that Nunes and the others have bit off far more than they can chew. And the odds do not favor folks, including oversight committee chairs, who buck the system.
Staying Power
On the other hand, the presumptive perps have not run into a chairman like Nunes in four decades, since Congressmen Lucien Nedzi (D-Mich.), Otis Pike (D-NY), and Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho) ran tough, explosive hearings on the abuses of a previous generation deep state, including massive domestic spying revealed by quintessential investigative reporter Seymour Hersh in December 1974. (Actually, this is largely why the congressional intelligence oversight committees were later established, and why the FISA law was passed in 1978.)
At this point, one is tempted to say plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose – or the more things change, the more they stay the same – but that would be only half correct in this context. Yes, scoundrels will always take liberties with the law to spy on others. But the huge difference today is that mainstream media have no room for those who uncover government crimes and abuse. And this will be a major impediment to efforts by Nunes and other committee chairs to inform the public.
One glaring sign of the media’s unwillingness to displease corporate masters and Official Washington is the harsh reality that Hersh’s most recent explosive investigations, using his large array of government sources to explore front-burner issues, have not been able to find a home in any English-speaking newspaper or journal. In a sense, this provides what might be called a “confidence-building” factor, giving some assurance to deep-state perps that they will be able to ride this out, and that congressional committee chairs will once again learn to know their (subservient) place.
Much will depend on whether top DOJ and FBI officials can bring themselves to reverse course and give priority to the oath they took to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. This should not be too much to hope for, but it will require uncommon courage in facing up honestly to the major misdeeds appear to have occurred — and letting the chips fall where they may. Besides, it would be the right thing to do.
Nunes is projecting calm confidence that once he and Trey Gowdey (R-Tenn.), chair of the House Oversight Committee, release documentary evidence showing what their investigations have turned up, it will be hard for DOJ and FBI officials to dissimulate.
In Other News …
In the interview with Attkisson, Nunes covered a number of other significant issues:
- The committee is closing down its investigation into possible collusion between Moscow and the Trump campaign; no evidence of collusion was found.
- The apparently widespread practice of “unmasking” the identities of Americans under surveillance. On this point, Nunes said, “In the last administration they were unmasking hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of Americans’ names. They were unmasking for what I would say, for lack of a better definition, were for political purposes.”
- Asked about Schiff’s criticism that Nunes behaved improperly on what he called the “midnight run to the White House,” Nunes responded that the stories were untrue. “Well, most of the time I ignore political nonsense in this town,” he said. “What I will say is that all of those stories were totally fake from the beginning.”
Not since Watergate has there been so high a degree of political tension here in Washington but the stakes for our Republic are even higher this time. Assuming abuse of FISA court procedures is documented and those responsible for playing fast and loose with the required justification for legal warrants are not held to account, the division of powers enshrined in the Constitution will be in peril.
A denouement of some kind can be expected in the coming months. Stay tuned.
Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, a publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Savior in inner-city Washington. He was a CIA analyst for 27 years and is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).
Check out Jimmy Dore’s interview with William Binney about the abuse of the FISA warrants and the court. It’s an absolutely eye opening interview. Binney explains how illegal the FISA courts are and how very unconstitutional.
In a regular court of law, both sides get to explain their reasoning and then the judges decide what to do. In FISA courts it’s only a one sided conversation and that’s why it’s unconstitutional.
The DEA and other intelligence agencies can get a FISA warrant and then pass their information on to other police agencies. It goes like this: the DEA gets a warrant to spy on a drug dealer and finds out that he is transporting drugs on a certain highway. He tells the local cops about it and then the cops will stop him and say that he was speeding or his taillight was out. This happens all the time. You have read about it.
Now it’s taken before a judge who also knows what just happened, but instead of saying that the person’s rights were violated, let’s the farce go on.
Seriously, this video is well worth your time to watch.
caucus99percent has the video and discusses it. Go visit.
The criminality at this level of the federal government is both systemic and deeply rooted . It may well be the height of naïveté to even hope that justice will be served.
Good Reporting!
Schiff went on countless TV appearances stating he’d seen the evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians, but couldn’t go into details, thereby smearing Trumps name. Now the narrative is Russian Meddling!
Schiff should be hounded by a real press, if not investigated himself.
More likey Nunes will be on trial for obstruction of justice.
“Assuming abuse of FISA court procedures is documented.”
Exactly: “Assuming.” Never does anyone writing for Consortiumnews examine their assumptions or question, even for a second, that Nunes may have a totally political motive of his own for pressing to flip the focus of attention from Trump and Russia to the FBI and CIA. Of course, they have histories of suspect (and worse) behavior, but so does Nunes — and so does Trump. The idea that “CIA Bad = Nunes & Trump Good” is an assumption that needs to be proven; taking the idea that CIA = Bad means Trump Good without any proof of the latter, based solely on assuming the former, is begging the question indeed.
Thank you Ray; and thank you Consortium News. Keep the information coming. The FSM {fake-stream-media} would never publish anything like the above from Ray.
Love you real patriot Ray Mc Govern! And Thanks!
The trolls are angry, my friends. They are out in full force, but to no avail because the truth is popping out all over town.
No, it’s because BS is popping up.
“…documents and testimony…providing faulty information to justify a FISA warrant to monitor former Trump campaign official Carter Page…”
As even the Republicans finally had to admit, the evidence for such an assertion is non-existent and Nunes’s “memo” ignored the facts of the FISA request: a perfectly legitimate one.
Surprising and disappointing to see Consortium giving credibility to this “fake news.”
Robert Schwartz – when the judge asked them pointedly what their requests were all about, I’m sure they answered truthfully (sarc). I’m sure they mentioned that the Steele dossier was paid for by the Clinton campaign and the DNC, or did they leave this tiny, little, itsy-bitsy detail out? I’m sure they kept the judge abreast of the fact that the dossier was unverified, or did they leave this detail out too?
Nunes and Gowdy, in their brilliance, are asking for the transcripts of these FISA Court proceedings to be provided. Good move! Let’s see what was disclosed to this judge and what was omitted.
Fake news, my eye.
beat the schiff out of that mad man, quick
Clown act, Ray.
Ray, are you siding with Nunes? Hard to believe…even though I (kind of) get your points.
“We found that they broke a vast number of laws, did surveillance of a competitor with a warrant based on fake evidence, all adding up to treason worse than Watergate. But we think that no reasonable prosecutor would file charges…..”
— The FBI
Thank you Paul E. Merrell, J.D. I have been convinced from the beginning of all of this that this was the line to Wikileaks. Now if we could only get a real investigation into Seth’s murder.
Related news:
Kim Dotcom: “Let Me Assure You, The DNC Hack Wasn’t Even A Hack”, https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-18/kim-dotcom-let-me-assure-you-dnc-hack-wasnt-even-hack (Kim Dot Com claims personal knowledge on who took the DNC emails (Seth Rich) and his lawyers wrote to Mueller twice, offering his testimony but never heard back from Mueller).
Good to see that you,Trumpkin, Newt Gingrich and Sean Hanity all agree on the Seth Richard thing. Now if you could only get Seth’s parents on board…
“The (Richards” family spokesperson said ‘”At this point, only people with transparent political agendas or sociopaths are still perpetuating Seth Rich conspiracies.”‘
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich#Conspiracy_theories
It’s sad how the comment threads on CN have devolved to resemble the YouTube hot-headed insult-casting which is par for that course. It seems a trollish sub-element of sockpuppetry has taken up residence and dragged the discourse down. Good things never last.
(But they can be managed, right?)
Nunes should be in jail. But his I don’t give a _____ about anything except me says volumes.
My dog, what an embarrassment. Nunes will be lucky if he escapes all of this without being charged with obstruction, and you’ll be lucky if your coverage of this story doesn’t result in the destruction of your legacy from prior works.
The obfuscation skills Ray learned in the CIA are serving him well.
“the Saudi-Zio Terror Network”
Good thing the Trump administration- I mean Jared- is on the case.
I totally agree BobS, isn’t it great again to feel safe? Joe
While the shiny ball, smoke and mirrors psychological operation known as “Russiagate” has begun running on fumes before the gas tank finally runs dry, the major revelation of the Clinton WikiLeaks emails describing Saudi/Qatari financing of ISIS drops further down the memory hole. There’s nothing like success …
Good point Mr. Alatalo. The Saudi-Zio Terror Network gets away with murder, literally and figuratively and of course the Saudi-Zio Terror Network NEVER, EVER interferes in ANY elections in the United States, no never.
(sarcasm)
“Much will depend on whether top DOJ and FBI officials can bring themselves to reverse course and give priority to the oath they took to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. This should not be too much to hope for”
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love McGovern’s essays, analyses and articles but I’m afraid this aforementioned point is the height of naivete.
Agreed, but OTOH they will do anything they have to in order to remain in power.
If by some miracle the public opinion is expressed so strongly that they think they’ll get ousted or even go to prison for accessory if they continue to protect the criminals, they will at least move against some of the lower level collaborators.
I don’t think anything could make them go after Hitlery (who is above the law) or Comey (knows too much about Hitlery and might start leaking if he saw himself threatened), but maybe some of the lower level agents who actually did the surveillance will face punishment.
Such officials may actually hold such an ideal, however much betrayed by rogues, factions, and themselves at times, so Ray’s approach of encouragement of basic principle may be effective.
Increasing attacks on Ray, Nunes and others poking the intel gang, are evidence that they are hitting some sensitive nerves in the deep state.
How much help do you need getting dressed in the morning?
Why BobS you going to help mike get dressed, or are you only into undressing people? Joe
What a despicable character you have, BS. Good to see that associated with your ideas.
Hey as a deep stater myself, I gotta tell ya, this Nunes guy is actually tops…I mean while he was nice enough to call a colleague who was uncomfortable with domestic spying ” Al Queda’s best friend in Congress” but still maintain near zero credibility where Trump and Russia are concerned. Now that he’s done this important work for us, we’ll almost certainly indict him with all the lies he’s been caught telling!! :-)
Ps…how about that Dana Roherbacher….looks like his name finally came up again: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/rick-gates-lied-mueller-meeting-ukraine-manafort-mercury-rohrabacher
-Will, long time ICU nurse with that all illusive AACN Deep State Troll certification (DSTRN)…
I have to wonder if there exists in the “intelligence” world the uncommon courage Ray refers to in order to uncover and admit to their misdeeds. I knew someone who had a CIA interview about 20 years ago and she said it was so chilling she gave up all thought of the job.
Really good, Socratic Gadfly, your blog well summarizes our current political state of “May the Farce Be With You”!
Ray, you deserve our thanks and admiration for the brave and conscientious stances you have taken…after safely securing your pension.
Good thing US troops are legal, so you have nothing to worry about.
Whoops! I meant “US trolls”…
Look for an eventual story digging into Nunes’ campaign financing. Something in which you overturn all the rocks you can find just about anything you’re looking for.
Of course the establishment media will then become ever so shocked and outraged and run with whatever minor detail they unearth; Blitzer will have a gleam in his eye and a saliva frenzy around his mouth as he beats the story over and over, same with Maddow and all the other militarist-warmongering press prostitutes.
I remember it happened to Ron Dellums many years ago when Mr. Dellums started making some very erudite, heroic and critical anti-imperial statements from the bully pulpit; sure enough, they dug and dug and dug and came up with a bit of campaign finance impropriety to smear him, just enough.
This is likely to happen to Nunes.
Very astute observations Drew. It is going to happen to Nunes exactly as you wrote. It has happened to quite a few before, in the past four decades or so.
It’s all so maddening and disheartening Dave P.
Ray laughably compares Devin Nunes and his #NunesNothingburger to Otis Pike, continuing the #twosiderism that he and Caitlin continue to show on this issue http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2018/02/rip-bob-parry-and-rip-consortium-news.html
Ray, if you want to write something constructive about criticizing Mueller, write about First Amendment concerns with his indictment, which I already have — that also avoids twosiderism because we know Nunes doesn’t really care about 1A: http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2018/02/internet-research-agency-butt-hurt.html
“It would at the same time note Putin’s poisoning of Litvinenko”
I am glad you already know this, since the rest of the world merely suspects this, perhaps you can provide some evidence so we can know this too.
“If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.” Joseph Goebbels
Gadfly’s evidence is that he’s heard it 1000 times on TV.
Devin Nunes is NOT what I’d call a “credible source”. Can’t we find a whole lot BETTER targets to aim at for FISA court abuses than this?
Ray is fixated on this issue, Lydia, and continues to engage in two-siderism. There’s actually legit critiques of Mueller, like mine. http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2018/02/internet-research-agency-butt-hurt.html
Why is Devin Nunes not a credible source? Can you provide some evidence, so we can debate this subject?
Look up his voting record – he’s always voting in favor of more surveillance and fewer requirements for warrants.
It’s odd that he would come out on the right side on this one. (Probably a purely partisan issue for him.)
Ray, perhaps sometime you could write about what role you may have played in delivering skewed intelligence to Reagan that enabled his increase in military spending. You apparently didn’t resign in protest inasmuch as your bio boasts of “27 years” in the CIA (that’s part of the DEEP STATE!!!!, right?).
How much of a pension do you collect?
Do you have any evidence, whatsoever, to support your accusation, or should we just assume this is another slanderous comment?
You’re saying it was a different Ray McGovern who delivered presidential briefings (and then whined about the phony intelligence that contributed to the Bush illegal invasion of Iraq) that were used to conjure up the illusion of Soviet military might?
Or there wasn’t a massive defense build up in the 1980’s rationalized by (imaginary) Soviet military strength?
Thanks for pointing out more of Ray’s Cold War background; I will look into it further.
Better to avoid feeding the BobS troll; he comes solely to disrupt.
So you are privy to the briefings in question. Just because Reagan bloated the military budget doesn’t mean he was being fed false intelligence by McGovern.
On the other hand, it is well publicized that Cheney twisted arms at Langley and Tenet obliged and Rummy worked the Iraq angle as well. We also had the Downing Street Memo and the Powell fiasco and Valerie Plame. Ray was right to be indignant.
Ray, do you think Trump has made a deal: he’ll allow escalations against Russia, and in return the Deep State will leave him alone? If so, does that portend that this will fizzle out?
No surprise that consortiumnews and Fox News compete for/share the same age/race demographic.
This used to be a pretty nice neighborhood.
Impossible to get the whole Gorgon’s head, anyway, in such a corrupt system as we have. Why else are we in such a mess? Both GOP and Democrats have not served the people, so we should therefore give up trying to address any abuse?
Will Nunes or any conservative go after the thousands of illegal acts perpetrated by conservatives??? NO! Nunes, along with every conservative traitor in America (republican or democrat) needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The conservative agenda is not moral or constitutional.
But, but, but……what about DEEP STATE!!!!?????
BobS do you use your Elmer Fudd voice for this?
Sorry BobS I meant to say Porky Pig. Again take care. Joe
Conservatives, who you disagree with, are in darkness, and liberals, who you agree with, are in the light.
This is an illusion applicable to anyone who erroneously chooses a side rather than look for the truth or falseness on all sides. It is a mind trick that gets exploited endlessly.
I prefer the rhetoric of the left as well, but their reality is a far cry from their wondrous words. When deep corruption sets in, heroes are few and far between and certainly a whole side, i.e. Rep or Dem, does not consist of angels or devils.
I don’t think there is a “conservative agenda”, other than self-enrichment. And what’s this fantasy about reducing the military’s budget when the creature’s budget calls for three times that?
Sure, the FISA court is a secret court that rarely turns down a request, but do any of you really think that Devin Nunes is some kind of constitutional hero? Here’s part of what he said in an interview on that well-known leftist TV network “Fox News”:
“Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) on Friday admitted that did not personally review the applications for surveillance warrants that provide the basis of the classified memo released earlier in the day.
Nunes said he relied on the review of committee member Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.).
“No, I didn’t,” Nunes told Fox News’s Bret Baier, when asked if he saw the applications.
The memo, released earlier in the day by the House Intelligence Committee, alleges that politically motivated material was used to petition the government for a warrant to surveil an American citizen.
Nunes, the chairman of the committee, brushed off news reports that accused him of not seeing the underlying documents as “bogus.”
He explained that the committee set up an agreement with the Justice Department that would allow just one person to review the documents.
Nunes said he thought Gowdy would be the best choice because of his background as a federal prosecutor, and that Gowdy then shared his notes and observations with the rest of the members.
Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, torched Nunes earlier in the week for not reading all the materials involved in creating the document. He acknowledged the agreement Nunes referenced, but blasted the chairman for sending someone else to read the documents.
“The chairman never bothered to go read these underlying materials,” Schiff told CNN’s Anderson Cooper on Monday. “After months and months of making this argument that the FBI and DOJ are involved in some sort of conspiracy, he didn’t even bother to read the materials himself.”
Yes, a hero indeed, and one that can’t read.
Here’s the link to “The Hill” article that quote came from:
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/372119-nunes-admits-he-did-not-view-the-surveillance-warrant-applications-that-form
Considering their disregard for law as well as their worship of authoritarianism (exercised against the proper targets, of course), I’d say it’s more than “self-enrichment” that drives conservatives, both ancient and modern.
BobS – yeah, like Uranium One and the Clinton Foundation don’t have anything to do with self-enrichment? Of course we believe that these two acts were done for the good of the country! Riiiiiight.
That’s what you read?
Surprisingly, your critical reading skills seem to be a match for your critical thinking skills.
BobS – thank you for the compliment.
Perhaps that is an issue, but I am unclear precisely what is wrong in Nunes position that he is relying on Gowdy, an undeniably sharp, precise, prosecutor, to review the examined material. Watching both Nunes and Gowdy in sessions, I would have probably, and gladly, made the same decision. It also make sence politically that they cover for each other, one person is expendable and takes the heat – Nunes, while the other – Gowdy, an upward star of the party, who probably ran the whole investigation anyway, keeps his hands clean.
The always partisan “upward star” Trey ‘BENGHAZI!!!’ Gowdy announced his retirement from congress last month due to his being “sick of hyper-partisanship”.
And let me show you this bridge I’m selling…
In fact, I would greatly enjoy a discussion on weapons transfers from Libya to Erdogan to Al – Qaeda via Clinton. This is actually one of my favorite topics. So have it.
“In fact, I would greatly enjoy a discussion on weapons transfers from Libya to Erdogan to Al – Qaeda via Clinton.”
That would have been a discussion worth having. Sadly, however, it wasn’t one the grandstanding Gowdy (or other Republicans) wanted to have. Other Republicans like Libya war supporter Marco Rubio, whose candidacy for the presidency was supported by “undeniably sharp, precise” (world-class hypocrite) Trey Gowdy.
See how that works?
I think the same thing is happening on Russiagate. Trump the mobster is neck deep in Russian mob connections, but that is not what the politicians want to talk about. So they talk about the great evil Putin, which is much more of a money maker. My guess is those Russian mob connections have a great deal to do with Israel.
“Trump the mobster is neck deep in Russian mob connections…”
And if all this other noise is necessary for Mueller to discover those connections, so be it.
By the way, it’s just as likely the “great evil Putin” is connected, as well.
Yes, but that is the worst possible scenario as it has nuclear war implications. I am unclear why anyone but Hillary and a few MIC fat-cats would push such a narrative. I think Russians are The Borg is not conclusive evidence.
You just talked about Ray pushing a Cold War narrative, so obviously you believe this stuff happens. Why do you think this case is the exception?
Actually, the question is why anyone would feel sanguine about a POTUS likely being compromised by a Russian DEEP STATE!!!! ?
Other than rubes (of which there are admittedly many in the US, as we see on these threads), those whose thirst for power exceeds their allegiance to country (we call them Republicans in the US), those who are also compromised by a Russian DEEP STATE!!!!, and Russian DEEP STATE!!!! trolls.
Sorry, I guess I answered my own question.
Russian DEEP STATE!!!!, interesting…
What exactly is that? This is a brand new narrative, congratulations.
The idea of the deep state is that powerful interests have turned the US Presidency into a schmuck. Yeah, seems quite plausible to me.
That is not the Putin narrative at all. The Putin narrative is that he is controlling everything, all Russians, the US President, everything; it is only Hillary, Rachel and a rag tag team of decent folks at the FBI led by Mueller saving us from certain doom at his demonical hands.
So, how do you combine the two?
Your naivete puts you at a marked disadvantage when you play on the internet.
However, that you think there isn’t a confluence of elites/intelligence/military/bureaucracy/organized crime in all of the worlds countries (particularly the failed ones, like Russia recently was) makes me think it’s more than just naivete afflicting you.
By the way, if you want to discuss these things with Rachel Maddow or Hillary Clinton (Mueller seems a little more tight-lipped), you aren’t likely to find them here. (they probably have their own websites, though- have at it).
So what is your argument, that we should be loyal to our crime family and not theirs?
Or do you think Hillary, “We came, we saw, he died” or Mueller, of nothing to see here on 9/11 notoriety are the sort of people we should be defending.
“So what is your argument, that we should be loyal to our crime family and not theirs?”
Or we could turn over one rock at a time.
“Or do you think Hillary, “We came, we saw, he died” or Mueller, of nothing to see hear on 9/11 notoriety are the sort of people we should be defending.”
You know The Lone Ranger was a fictional character, right? You should probably stop waiting for him.
I think there is some sort of compromise on the first point.
The second, gives me flashbacks of Samual Jackson musings on his employment in Ezekiel 25:17.
Wm. Boyce – “He explained that the committee set up an agreement with the Justice Department that would allow just one person to review the documents.
Nunes said he thought Gowdy would be the best choice because of his background as a federal prosecutor, and that Gowdy then shared his notes and observations with the rest of the members.”
Good move, like sending your best shot to the Olympics, isn’t it? Gowdy, a career prosecutor, is as sharp as they come and he can smell a rat from a mile away. I think he smelled a rat.
Long winded grasping at straws to invalidate Nunes for his brave actions.
Thin skinned too, eh Ray?
You’re right, of course- Russia analysts at the CIA did stellar work in the 1980s.
No BobS it’s you with your thickhead that doesn’t get it. Keep it up BobS, because eventually you are going to say something funny. Take care. Joe
Ray continues to engage in two-siderism. He ignores digging into legit critiques of Mueller, as I have. http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2018/02/internet-research-agency-butt-hurt.html
Ray deleted a comment of mine that took him to task for shilling for Reagan (and his defense build-up) by producing intelligence (regarding Russia) that the White House wanted to hear.
The Deep State is very, very deep, and we’re “Knee Deep in the Big Muddy” (Pete Seeger). Anybody knows the US Deep State was thoroughly entrenched by Reagan’s time. It’s overdue not to let this deep state corruption harden to concrete. I support neither party until there is a course correction, and Nunes makes valid points in support of a correction. Thanks, Ray.
Somehow many Democrats are convinced that the FBI/DOJ did nothing wrong with regards to the FISA warrants. And they’re still convinced that Trump colluded with Putin. Nothing will change their minds, it’s hopeless.
It is indeed surreal to watch people who classify themselves as the left undermining the left by supporting the very agencies whose sole purpose from their inception is to destroy the left.
As David William Pear put it at OpEd News, “I don’t think even Orwell has a scene like this: anti-authoritarian dissidents endorse more authoritarian means to weed out authoritarians resulting in authoritarians having more control to weed out dissidents.”
I have a headache.
The spooks are panicking! Like most of the rest of the pro-Putin camp! Including Nunes! He’s made an almighty mess and is now desperately trying to get out of it. The memo was a panic reaction designed to get Trump off the hook, but it actually constitutes a tacit admission of guilt on Trump’s part. Nobody seeks to supress evidence that he thinks will be favourable to him (if he does, he has a fool for a lawyer!). The only reason why Trump could possibly want to challenge the Page warrant is that he is guilty and believes, or actually knows, that the evidence obtained from the Page surveillance will prove it. Thus, Nunes is desperately trying to throw up a smokescreen by diverting attention away from the logical implications of his memo and claiming that FBI or DOJ officials “could” face “legal consequences”, that nature of which he carefully avoids specifying. Mr McGovern jumps on that bandagon by talking about “felony territory”, also without specifying what felony he has in mind. Nunes seems to be trying to intimidate people who are trained lawyers (which Nunes himself isn’t!) and who will therefore know that such threats are legal nonsense. Thus, having issued the memo in a moment of panic, he’s now panicking again as he realises that it has blown up in his, and Trump’s, face.
Ray, if this is reflects the quality of your work while you were at the CIA, it explains how the Reagan administration was able to use the supposed military might of the rapidly declining Soviet Union to justify the deficit expanding rise in US defense spending (not dissimilar to Trump and Republicans ignoring the current deficit to significantly expand defense spending).
Once a shill, always a shill, right Ray?
The only way any trail that Nunes could even begin to make magically appear to happen before our weary eyes will happen only, and I say only, will appear because it will be good for tv ratings. Enforcing Constitutional law, I mean who does that anymore? Why today in our nation’s capital we have congressional people asking the opposite of what Ben Franklin warned us good citizens about as the swamp critters are saying, ‘Constitution how can we lose it’. You know this Ray that these crooks and crookettes in DC think that the U.S. Constitution is so passé and so anciently colonial that they hear Jefferson saying, ‘ignore this stupid document, I was drunk with Adams and Franklin when I wrote it. It was all a big mistake.’ Or something like that, but Constitutional law we don’t need no stink’n Constitutional law, now get back to your part time work. (Whip cracking sound)
Hey Ray this whole fiasco does what is most important in this new American century, this fiasco is entertaining and the ratings are going through the roof…so with that what more could a red blooded good American ask for…now pass the tv remote.
Paul Craig Roberts may have nailed this thing….
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/02/18/cbs-contradicts-muellers-report/
Paul Craig Roberts wrote,
Note that after saying the Russians are indicted for interfering in the election, and spending 5 minutes on this, at the 5 minute 20 second mark Rosenstein says there is no evidence that the Russians had any affect[sic] on the election! So what we have is the Deputy Attorney General of the United States announcing an indictment for which he says there is no evidence!
If we take Roberts’ statement at face value, he may have inadvertenly mischaracterized Rosenstein’s statement. According to Roberts, Rosenstein said there is no evidence of an effect on the election, but it does not follow from that that Rosenstein is saying that there is no evidence of interference. There may have been “interference” that had no impact. And, of course, there is the question, just what is meant by “interference” in this context?
I share the frustration many commenters have about the entire “Russiagate” narrative, but I think it is important to be careful in how we evaluate these statements. It may all be a “nothinburger,” but it is important to describe things carefully and correctly. Otherwise, one ends up inadvertently setting up a straw man for someone else to knock down.
I share the stress you do blimblax that you and all who stay on this Russia-Gate pay-ops suffer, but the way this crooked nail investigation has been going, mostly distorted by the press coverage, your argument about the interpretation of Rosenstein’s words to the general public will be like splitting hairs with bald people…. they just won’t get it, and why, because I’m not sure the vast amount of Americans get it now. They got turned off along time ago back when the FBI didn’t produce Trump performing his much heard about Steele Dossier acclaimed Water Sports in his Moscow Obama’s Presidential Suite…sick, yes, but it’s the truth. No pictures, no believe you.
Personally I have never doubted any Russian influence in the way of statements, or essays, but this contribution of opinion is to be expected from any well thinking country, or nation if you’d rather of the world. Plus the Russians spending wasn’t even close to any real fraction of what both U.S. Presidential candidate spend on their campaigns, get real.
In the world of cypher espionage I have no knowledge, but if Russia does hang out in it well then I’m sure the U.S. is already there to do what it must to defend it’s cypher security. So that’s a wash, but this insane Russia-Gate distraction was originally a way to deflect attention from Hillary & Debbie’s putting the screws to Socialist Sanders…. then Russia-Gate became a MSM driven coup to oust Trump from his Electoral won presidential office.
We could argue to how Trump,should be questioned, or even brought up on impeachment charges, but not for this particular Russia interference into our so well guarded American democracy. In fact we Americans don’t need any Russian help at bringing our American democracy down, because we Americans already did that with the Patriot Act as among a few many other things. Joe
Here is a rant by Charles Hugh Smith….
http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/2018/02/russian-meddling-gagging-on-irony.html
Neither Dems nor GOP truly care about the First Amendment. Ray won’t write about that. I have, re the Mueller indictments: http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2018/02/internet-research-agency-butt-hurt.html
That was a terrific read, and so is this…..
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/02/mueller-indictement-the-russian-influence-is-a-commercial-marketing-scheme.html#more
Enjoy. Joe
Great article Joe. Thanks for the link. Interesting and likely perspective.
Somehow I don’t think Nunes or his committee is capable of reigning in Frankenstein. His “constitutuents”” are not likely to allow it and although the monster was pieced together from many body parts its instincts for self-preservation are formidable. Nevertheless, I would applaud anyone who makes the effort.
Here’s where Mueller’s investigation didn’t go…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-2_Bc_7Pos
Thanks BobH, that’s an excellent rant, thanks for passing it along.
Trump started going head to head with the intel folks, but has backed down a lot now. Let’s hope Nunes et al hang in there and keep the pressure on these despicable criminals who hide behind governmental powers. When you allow people to do whatever they want in secret with no oversight, you can expect them to abuse their power. The basic question all this leads to is “who is running this country and making crucial decisions about war and peace, or fascism and democracy”?
Can anyone imagine the Neocon WashPo, or the NYT (or CBS, or CNN, or…) committing actual journalism, as this story progresses?
That, and the DNC’s commitment to the DNC to the Russia Did It!™ canard, will ensure that real revelations go nowhere.
It is instructive to read the comments on any NYT article on this subject. The comments are clearly written by intelligent, well-educated individuals – who parrot the Deep State’s anti-Russian propaganda as if they were the dumbest of the “Better dead than Red!” 50s McCarthyites.
The new McCarthyites are actually stupider and more authoritarian than their sad fore-bearers, because they could pierce the Deep States lies with 30 minutes of online research, but they prefer tribalism and ignorance, instead.
You got that right! I live in the 5 college area in Massachusetts. Plenty of those types around here playing activists. They fit your description. I can’t stand to be in the same room with any of them. They may as well be from Mars.
I agree. The average working person has more common sense than the so-called intelligent, educated class. I suspect their views reflect the fact that they are very comfortable, financially, with the status quo, and don’t want any real change.
Where can we get access to Seymour Hersh’s “recent explosive investigations” even if they are written in German?
Now your talking.
https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html
There is more at the bottom of the page.
Try this link:
http://raymcgovern.com/?s=hersh+welt
or
simply search on consortiumnews.com webpage.
ray
Some people prefer Exelon.
(ask Joe)
“On June 25th 2017 the German newspaper, Welt, published the latest piece by Seymour Hersh, countering the “mainstream” narrative around the April 4th 2017 Khan Sheikhoun chemical attack in Syria.”
Thank you Panda4, for asking. I keep hearing that no one will publish Hersh in the US. So would someone PLEASE explain to me why Consortium has not or will not? Is Hersh too expensive? Is his research questionable? what is going on here? Are copywright laws too arcane to deal with if something is published in german papers?
I can think of other “liberal” web papers or magazines like Intercept, or Counterpunch that I would think would be interested. What is going on here???
Ray, can you explain this? Can anyone? I keep hearing how it’s impossible for Hersh to get published here, but I never hear why.
I hope someone can give us an answer. It makes no sense that a respected reporter, that others in the profession admire and respect, can not find ANY sort of outlet here. Something is going on that is not just MSM papers and magazines and TV news that are black balling him. Please tell us what it is.
Ranney,
Please have a look at this:
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/06/25/intel-behind-trumps-syria-attack-questioned/
Consortiumnews.com publishes and comments on everything Pulitzer Prize winning Sy Hersh does. The problem is that he is BANNED from English-language pubs — simply banned … and even kept off erstwhile “liberal” TV and radio programs. Amy Goodman, for example, has ALWAYS had Sy on when he had a new story … until this one. She would not touch it; these days prefers to go with the “White Helmets” of this world. O Tempora, O Mores. Sad.
So, in sum, the problem is a very basic one. Sy does not publish until he has nailed down every significant detail and, since he is so well plugged in with many longtime, trusted sources to sift through, that takes a while for a bit story — as all of them are. And when he is ready to publish, he hears folks whisper “Leper” as he gets close to an editorial office. It really IS that bad. We owe the op-ed editor at die Welt our thanks.
Btw: The Consortiumnews.com main page has a SEARCH button that I find very handy. Try to search on Seymour Hersh. Same goes for easily searchable raymcgovern.com, my website.
Ray
Thank you Ray for your answer. I remember reading your June article about Hersh which was very good. But I am still confounded. Why couldn’t Consortium have simply published the article with Hersh’s byline? Or for that matter, why couldn’t any one of many other publications? Are you saying that “The Nation” magazine and Katherine Vanden Hueval (spelling) has lost its courage along with all the radio and tv shows like Amy Goodman etc,.that Counterpunch, Glenn Greenwald’s web site et al have basically knuckled under and refuse to print or even report on anything he writes? What does that say about the last of the liberal media? If that is true, then who are we to trust any more?
The thought is terrifying!
You say BANNED. But banned by whom? The government? If so, what would happen to, lets say, “The Nation” magazine is they decided to print one of his articles, or for that matter to Consortium? Would they be shut down? Would they be fined? What? I really don’t understand this game.
Hey Ray Paul Craig Roberts is so impressed with you (& me as well) that he wants to make you CIA Director. Read this…..
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/02/19/david-nunes-president-ray-mcgovern-cia-director/
he is published frequently in Zero Hedge
The London Review of Books has been publishing Hersh’s work. That’s one source.
David,
Not for his latest of last June. See explanation of LRB cave in at:
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/06/25/intel-behind-trumps-syria-attack-questioned/
The ostracizing of Sy Hersh is a major — if highly depressing — story in and of itself. But he is irrepressible. I do not think he is going to silently steal away any time soon.
Ray McGovern
r
Although it’s being done for the wrong reasons, I am nevertheless looking forward to seeing our out-of-control intelligence agencies being put in their place. If I were president and my party controlled both houses of Congress, you’d better believe I’d be looking to dismantle the national surveillance state and reduce the military budget to a “mere” $250 billion annually.
What “wrong reasons” are you talking about Michael?
Partisan point-scoring and hypocrisy. Nunes and other Drumpf loyalists want to win the battle against political rivals seeking to undermine their legitimacy. No one in Congress cares that the intelligence agencies abuse their powers to spy on ordinary citizens, rather, they only care when they realize that those same powers are abused against themselves.
Michael I hear ya. Yes, there is a civil war of sorts going on in DC, and yes it would be a wonderful thing to rid our bureaucracy of all the slim that is in it, but taking Jiminy Cricket’s good advice to heart would be so much more fruitful to if you and I would only sing;
‘When you wish upon a star
Makes no difference who you are
Anything your heart desires will come to you”
Now that song will be stuck in my head all day….got any Journey? Joe
Thanks for the clarification.
It’s true that people generally do not care when bad practices, policies or violence is inflicted on others and not on themselves. Of course that’s stupid because it’s just a matter of time before “blowback” occurs (as the CIA euphemistically labeled how doing unto others eventually boomerangs back on perpetrators). Going back to the Church Committee and how that bit of accountability finally happened, it only got off the ground when Frank Church and other Senators found THEMSELVES in the crosshairs of FBI Cointelpro; CIA’s “CHAOS” and NSA’s “Minaret” surveillance. http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/09/25/secret-cold-war-documents-reveal-nsa-spied-on-senators/ (To this day, only 7 of the 1000 or so Americans targeted by the NSA during the Vietnam War have been discovered but their identities are telling.)
The post 9-11 wars of aggression, massive surveillance, torture and other war crimes were sold to the American public as only to be inflicted on foreigners, i.e. “we fight them over there so we don’t fight them here.” But the blowback has now turned America’s schools, malls, workplaces, concerts and churches into war zones and little by little, the disinformation ops, “regime change” know-how and other accoutrements of perpetual war (the fool’s errand of gaining full spectrum dominance over the rest of the world) have been turned inward on the American people, including powerful American officials themselves. So it would seem to be a good thing that some politicians like Nunes have finally seen the light exactly as Frank Church did—only when they themselves began to reap the negative consequences of what they thought would only negatively impact other, lesser people.
“…the blowback has now turned America’s schools, malls, workplaces, concerts and churches into war zones”
“blowback” is doing a lot of work in that sentence, if you’re referring specifically to “post 9-11 wars of aggression, massive surveillance, torture and other war crimes”. Whenever the incidents have had a political agenda attached, it’s more often than not been of the domestic right-wing variety. And of course, all of them have been facilitated by easy civilian access to hardware that was originally developed by the military (ours and the Soviets) to efficiently kill/incapacitate large numbers of enemy fighters.
BobS fails to understand that blowback encapsulates more than “revenge”. “Forever war” and all Colleen mentions that goes with it has had societal impact because violence is glorified as a “solution” and feelings of suspicion and antagonism become part of the dark undertow.
Well said, Colleen. Let us hope that Nunes is not merely acting the part. I wonder whether the greatest secrets of domestic spying are now so compartmentalized and controlled that only those most dependent upon their agency could blow the whistle.
This is not to be compared to spying on citizens, which is unacceptable, but they tried to undermine a presidency, whether you like Trump or not, and at the same time it allowed them to push their cold war agenda. I remember Clinton’s campaign manager coming out right after the e-mail dump that said the Russians did it. And didn’t Obama send a lot of those Russian ambassadors packing? They should be investigated, as should the FISA court itself. Perhaps if Trump didn’t have this charge of colluding with Russia he might have been able to be more diplomatic on that score. Now, they made sure he would never be getting along with Russia. What they have now is a bunch of Russians acting on their own that allegedly interfered in our elections and created political discord, which is absurd, since the democrats are mainly responsible for this nonsense, as is the FBI and DOJ. I was a democrat, but no more.
Annie, you are right on that. However, Coleen Rowely has also made some very good observations in her comments. But there is more to it, as some have pointed out in comments above, there are some intra-party quarrels going on in Washington to take the upper hand. Regarding foreign policy, National Security State and surveillance, and other such issues, both parties are joined at the hip.
I wouldn’t completely discount the idea that Nunes’ sense of responsibility has been activated by being a close witness to what is blatant wrongdoing. But then my cynicism is still tempered by the belief that sometimes people are compelled to do what’s right just because it’s what’s right. Silly me.
Me, too, Michael, to “…dismantle the national surveillance state and reduce the military budget to a ‘mere’ $250 billion annually.”
Thanks to Ray McGovern for another good article with link to interview. Good to hear they will finally be closing the Mueller investigation (Nunes was straightforward about that, …no there there) and will likely be investigating the FBI and DOJ.
Applause goes to David Nunes. Keep up the good work.
Today I received two emails from friends, one with a link to this same Ray McGovern article: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/02/no_author/nunes-memo-reports-crimes-at-top-of-fbi-and-doj/
And the other with a link to an article by Stephen Cohen: https://www.thenation.com/article/if-america-won-the-cold-war-why-is-there-now-a-second-cold-war-with-russia/
Is the tide turning? I’ll be checking my emails with more relish now.
Just for fun, here’s one for you sports fans: https://www.thenation.com/article/lebron-james-flips-the-script-again/
Oh, I just noticed CN has an article on the above. Good for CN.
But I see where Trump asked for nearly one TRILLION dollars for the military and got it.
A Devin Nunes interview on Sinclair Broadcasting?
Jesus, Ray, ask your doctor about Aricept.
What are you taking BobS? Just because you need meds doesn’t mean Ray or other people do to.
mike k-
BobS is a classic troll: all snark and no rational, evidence based arguments ever presented. Best to just not feed him.
Right Skip. I will just ignore his comments from now on.
Hey Skip, I think the sarcasm BobS displays is meant to question Ray McGovern’s memory in terms of who Devin Nunes is, what he has done in the past that tends to impinge upon his credibility. A quick look at his record reveals him to be just another wackaddoodle anti environmentalist pro security state “conservative” from the Ron Johnson school. I thought about pasting in some stuff about the bills he has co-sponsored or supported and a bunch of other less than impressive stuff he’s done or said but it would be pointless to do your research for you. instead I’ll leave you with these highly illustrative items:
Nunes wrote in his book that members of the environmental lobby were “followers of neo-Marxist, socialist, Maoist or Communist ideals.”
In May 2014, Nunes came under fire when he charged that Michigan Congressman and fellow Republican Justin Amash was “al-Qaeda’s best friend in Congress” because of Amash’s supposed voting record on National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance (no surprise, Amash was against unfettered surveillance).
Will-
You don’t need to be a Devin Nunes fan to think that he is right in this instance. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. I trust Ray McGovern way more than BobS.
He’s taking a reverse laxative.
Thanks Ray for another great article. One can only hope that Nunes is successful. However, like you say, the MSM is now complicit with the “Deep State”, so the fight for justice becomes much harder. One also has to remember Schumer’s “six ways from Sunday” applies equally to the congress as it does to the president. I hardly ever watch TV news, but recently I’ve been subjected to it, and I’ve seen a deluge of fluff pieces on our so-called Intelligence Agencies. I would love to see Trump give a speech (instead of a tweet) directly to the American people letting them know what rascals like Brennan, Clapper, et al have been up to.
“I hardly ever watch TV news,” Skip Scott
Yeah but you are a great music artist scout. Joe
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you Ray McGovern. The Sharyl Attkisson interview was terrific. Many thanks for all you do!
This may be the best broadcast tv journalism in many years, read Sharyl Attkisson’s story, “Stonewalled” (I will link the commentary page to that book for thorough readers). And thank you Nat, Ray McGovern & CN…
https://www.amazon.com/Stonewalled-Obstruction-Intimidation-Harassment-Washington/dp/0062322850/ref=sr_1_1/140-4375232-2286101?ie=UTF8&qid=1519058613&sr=8-1&keywords=stonewalled#customerReviews
An excellent and very timely article by Ray McGovern. Lawlessness, greed, complete subservience to Wall Street Finance and other Powers, insanity, and utter inhumanity prevails in present day Ruling Establishment in Washington. Obama, “the hope and change” Con Artist for whose election, being democrats we worked so hard in 2008 turned to be the biggest perpetrator of this lawlessness and responsible for fanning the flames still further in starting a new Cold War.
It is real courageous of Devin Nunes to give this interview. It is not only the accountability to law that is at stake in U.S., but the Whole World is imperiled with what happens in Washington. But as many have written before in comments about this complete moral collapse of the Entire West, I am afraid, it is all going to be swept under the rug. We have to just keep the fingers crossed.
Howard Dean just said yesterday that Nunes and people like him belong in jail. Now can you believe it, how low these so called liberal democrats have come to? Looking at the pictures of Adam Schiff, Howard Dean, and others in their company, I literally feel sick in the stomach. And one asks the essential question: “did not their parents teach them any honesty or moral principles in young age?”.
But what he said is very confusing.
First he says that Congress has no way to prosecute the DOJ/FBI for wrong doing then at the end he says Congress will need to prosecute the DOJ/FBI if necessary.
Either Congress has the ability to prosecute the DOJ/FBI and issue indictments and set up Grand Juries or they don’t.
Somebody needs to find out, Constitutionally, what the solution is when the DOJ/FBI at the highest levels become the criminals.
WHO has the power to indict/convict these individuals??
A special prosecutor (Mueller’s position) is appointed by the Pres or AG.
From what I’ve heard expressed by a few FBI people, you don’t come before a court, but a judge, one person, and they are known to rubber stamp almost everything. So they should be investigated too.
I have never seen such media bias against a sitting president in my lifetime, not even against Richard Nixon when they at least practiced decorum and feigned objectivity even if they were secretly cheering on his demise. I will reiterate here that I do not champion the man but rather due process under our constitution, which has been made a travesty from the moment of Clinton’s loss at the polls.
I completely agree with you Realist. I am not Trump’s fan or supporter of his agenda, in fact, in many things quite the opposite of it. However, he raised some very valid points about the the domestic economy and other issues, and about the need to stop interventions in foreign countries, and getting along Russia, and the need to rebuild country’s manufacturing system again. He was duly elected by the people, and he should have been given the support to pursue what he promised. But it did not happen. We would not know now what he actually wanted to accomplish.
Yes, neither party nor the mass media shows concern for the Constitution or for the people. As the propaganda agency, the mass media are primarily responsible. The zionist/WallSt/MIC oligarchy have consolidated control over mass media, secret agencies, and elections, but not without factions.
Yes, and the opposite was true with Obama. He was handled with kid gloves and anyone who criticized him was dismissed as a racist. He literally got away with murder and a myriad of other high crimes and misdemeanors. I say this as someone who got suckered into voting for him the first time.
Same thing here;I was suckered.
Indeed, I was suckered twice by his slick deceptive tongue. Next time, I’ll write in “none of the above” if no party comes up with an acceptable candidate willing to end all these wars and all this insane military spending NOW.
Check out Jimmy Dore’s interview with William Binney about the abuse of the FISA warrants and the court. It’s an absolutely eye opening interview. Binney explains how illegal the FISA courts are and how very unconstitutional.
This video is well worth your time.
A rascal giving a speech about some other rascals…I’m sure that would be illuminating.
“not all democrats are horse thieves but all horse thieves are democrats”
What makes you think John McCain, Lindsey Graham and George W. Bush (who made public that he voted for Hitlery) aren’t horse thieves?