Donald Trump’s recent attempts to show more restraint and look presidential unraveled in his debate with Hillary Clinton like Roger Rabbit unable to resist a goofy sight gag, says Michael Winship.
By Michael Winship
And so, after all the anticipation, the rampant sports metaphors and the breathless, sensationalized buildup (MSNBC’s headline in the minutes before the event was “Clinton/Trump Showdown”), the first debate is over.
Scorecards may be odious, but overall, it has to be said that Hillary Clinton had a very good night. In the first half hour, Donald Trump seemed to be doing his best to appear presidential and keep his Trumpiness under control but soon it came bursting out of him like Roger Rabbit, unable to resist a goofy sight gag, no matter the consequences.
Roger Rabbit from the 1988 animated film, “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?”
In those beginning minutes, Trump got in his licks, especially when he went after Clinton on trade policy, criticizing her husband’s support of NAFTA and her initial support of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a position she has since publicly reversed.
But he kept spouting like rote the same boilerplate he has been shouting since his campaign began – Mexico stealing our jobs, China outstripping us in production and economic progress, his insistence that slashing corporate taxes will be “a job creator like we haven’t seen since Ronald Reagan. It’s going to be a beautiful thing to watch.” But he offered little else in the way of solutions. Asked how he would get jobs back and create new ones, too, all he could come up with was trying to keep the ones we still have.
While Clinton may also have been guilty of rehashing much her standard campaign rhetoric, she seemed to be able to change it up and not repeat the same talking points over and over, at least creating the impression of some fresh ideas and a surer grasp of policy. She spoke well about criminal justice reform and community policing, for example. And she remained calm and unflustered even as her opponent melted down just a few feet away, constantly interrupting her, denying the facts placed before him and charging that not only does Clinton not have “the look” to be presidential, she also lacks the stamina.
To the latter she replied, “Well, as soon as he travels to 112 countries and negotiates a peace deal, a cease-fire release of dissidents and opening of new opportunities and nations around the world or even spends 11 hours testifying in front of a congressional committee, he can talk to me about stamina.”
Further, when Trump accused her of staying off the campaign trail (an unsubtle reference to her recent bout with pneumonia and the aforementioned stamina) she responded, effectively: “I think Donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. And yes I did. And you know what else I prepared for? I prepared to be president, and I think that’s a good thing.”
Performing in the big, one-on-one debate tent for the first time (for that’s what it was, a performance), and with the eyes of perhaps as many as 100 million upon him, Trump’s misogyny and condescension did not play well Monday night, nor did plugging his new hotel in Washington, bragging about his wealth and property holdings or his rambling, often evasive answers on birtherism, race, law and order, the invasion of Iraq, ISIS and the release of his income tax returns (Clinton said he was hiding something and Trump all but admitted that he pays no federal taxes).
Donald Trump speaking with supporters at a campaign rally at Veterans Memorial Coliseum at the Arizona State Fairgrounds in Phoenix, Arizona. June 18, 2016. (Photo by Gage Skidmore)
Almost all of his words, his bellicose tone, even his body language, belied Trump’s chest-thumping assertion that, “I think my strongest asset, maybe by far, is my temperament. I have a winning temperament.” His petulant insistence on this reminded me of W.C. Fields in The Bank Dick, raising his hand to a child and declaring, “She’s not gonna tell ME I don’t love her.”
As usual, what may have been most important is what went unsaid. The phrase “income inequality” came up only once, and that was from moderator Lester Holt. There was little mention of education or health care; some talk of energy policy but almost nothing on global warming other than Clinton’s reference to Trump claim that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese (last night he denied ever saying it, but he has).
And absolutely no mention of the ruinous influence of money in politics, which in retrospect made it a bit jarring that when Bill and Chelsea Clinton entered the debate auditorium they sat next to Vernon Jordan, a close family friend and adviser, certainly, but also senior counsel at Akin Gump, the biggest and most profitable lobbyist in Washington, prime peddlers of influence and privilege on Capitol Hill.
Billionaires Sheldon Adelson (Trump supporter and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani literally kissed the ring of Adelson’s wife), Mark Cuban and a lot of other high rollers were in the room, too. Democrats and Republicans crowded the hall at Hofstra University Monday night: cash and power got the good seats.
Michael Winship is the Emmy Award-winning senior writer of Moyers & Company and BillMoyers.com, and a former senior writing fellow at the policy and advocacy group Demos. Follow him on Twitter at @MichaelWinship. [This article first appeared at http://billmoyers.com/story/good-night-hillary-clinton/.]
With the deepstate neocons really running the whole show how much control could either Clinton or Trump actually exercise? Obama hasn’t been able to do much in eight years and he actually had principles and a few ideals. It is very obvious that no president has real power and very obvious that Clinton at least will have no problem going along with the deepstate agenda, perhaps all the way to war with Russia. As Obama once said “remember what happened to Doctor King”. He could have said “remember what happened to John Kennedy”. How long would Trump last if he didn’t obey instructions? And then we’d be stuck with President Pence, doG forbid.
The illusion that the american people have a choice and that their votes matter has been carefully and not so carefully maintained for decades now and is finally unravelling because the power elites no longer care to hide their machinations. They have achieved most of what they wanted and the illusion no longer serves them.
“Donald Trump’s recent attempts to show more restraint and look presidential…”
::
Skip the words, just look at the picture.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-trump-clinton-debate-machado-20160928-snap-story.html
I notice that for the last several months that Winship has been shilling for the Clinton campaign. Whatever you say about Trump, he had the courage to state no first use of nuclear weapons, while the harpy seems to favor el qaeda in Syria and would like to take on the Russians there on that basis. That is not only criminal but stupid and dangerous. Her record as a war criminal in Syria has been documented fully by Robert Parry on this website. The record of Clinton corruption with their foundation getting 10s of millions from the Saudis, Bahrein and elsewhere sets a standard, and the over $100 million in corporate speaking fees over the last decade or so is also unprecedented. While Stein is undoubtedly the best candidate running, Clinton is the candidate of death and Trump, with his faults, is obviously the less odious survivable alternative.
Dick Morris explains what the corrupt Clinton’s are up to here:
http://investmentwatchblog.com/former-clinton-insider-dick-morris-explains-how-hillary-became-corrupt-very-well-done-make-it-viral/
Well, for my part, what I’m going to do, let me tell you:
When all is finally done, when the last arguments are lost and won, whether the contest is one way, two way, three way or four way, there will be no way that I will vote outside the Box.
The reason is, the Box is going to vote me, whichever way its last-before-deadline hacker-programmer, or her-his-its successfully last under the wire algo, has programmed. On account of that vote, if I voted, myself, outside the box, the best outcome I could do would be, cancel the vote the box will vote me, by matching a contrary vote against it. The worst outcome, on the other hand, would be for the pair ov votes, the in-the-box automatic one and my out of the box old-fashioned personal one, to get flagged for double voting.
That would be vote-fraud; being caught, and being a jailable offense, one or the other of us, the Box or me, would go to jail. And I ain’t confident it would be the Box would be throwed in…
So, Mr. Winship is wastin’ his time writin’ his propaganda for me to read. I ain’t even gonna stay up to watch the reruns…
Vote with your dollars, ten bucks a month to the Greens (THEY don’t take corporate bribes like theRs and Ds do), AFTER the election. THIS is beyond the reach of the rigged voting machines. If 20 million citizens did this, it would EXPOSE the Establishment’s lying, cheating ways…PLUS give the Greens a “War Chest” to hire a team of trusted lawyers to tie up the Establishment in lawsuits. It’s time to make the Establishment PAY, BIG TIME, for what they’ve done to us. THIS is people power. It’s the only alternative, short of bloody Revolution (which I don’t want).
Brad Owen,
As a Green supporter, I imagine that you caught the Democracy Now! expansion of the debate feature, in which they provided Jill Stein opportunity to weigh in on the debate questions, doing tape-stops to give her space to provide here views. If you didn’t I recommend it. It was well done and an excellent idea, providing a way around the Establishment limit of on-site debate participation to the ‘Traditional Parties’. The Libertarian guy was, apparently unable to make the date, but the offer was extended to him. I don’t think his absence was serious, since most of the Libertarian vote will probably go Trump, and the Libertarian guy isn’t good at stand-up repartee, anyway.
The Expand the Debate bit apparently slid Democracy Now! a bit too far toward the sensible for its comfort, as an equal opportunity for the full-spectrum of outside the box viewpoints forum, which might have frightened some of the more off-the-wall, who might have wondered if they were going to lose an important platform to mount their soapboxes on, but Democracy Now!, apparently recognizing the chill in the qualms in the windy, followed up immediately with a feature of a Sociologist of the faints-and-vapours school, who put her affairs i order and took her heart in her hands to plunge into the turbid and murky waters of The Slough of Trumpond, where, a perch amongst the catfish, she sought to learn what thoughts and ideas they found to eat there on the bottom… She is the opposite end of the spectrum from Jill Stein (I don’t mean politically), but totally great fun; maybe even enough so she could leave The Donald speechless, if he saw her (I think if they met she would be, and would have to streak for the surface and sunny waters immediately).
I won’t mention the other jolly bit that washed by in the election-year millrace recently, when the Ukrainian Fiat President, Poroshenko, sought audiences while visiting New York, and was received by Hillary, but not by Donald, who declined to see him, since I am not campaigning for him…
I don’t favor the Greens, myself, because they, along with the rest of the ‘madding crowd’ are Chicken-Little Suicidal, wanting to use up green “renewables” instead of dead fossils: It is the green “renewables” that process carbon dioxide, removing the carbon to make fiber, which stores it, freeing the oxygens. In a sane world advocacy would be for expanding use of dead-carbons, which are not processing CO2 to balance the atmosphere, and leave the live, processing, ones alive to carry on their renewing. To save the inactive dead carbon deposits by killing the active live ones is to exacerbate and accelerate the earth-environment problems. That is why, for oxygen-dependent species, to “Go Green” is to rapture to Armageddon, meaning to follow one’s ‘True Belief’ to suicide, to self-destruction.
Joe Tedesky: I don’t care if Trump wins. I don’t care if he’s popular with a certain faction of American citizens. He’s as bad for us as Hillary. I can’t go “lesser evilism” anymore. They’re both poison for the people, in different ways. All is NOT lost however. The Greens and Libertarians are on almost all ballots. Vote them. MAKE the Establishment have to pull out all stops to erase these votes. People will know they tampered with the vote. The dismantling of the Establishment will then begin in earnest. God help them, for WE will NOT. They will be crushed in the end.
Oh you don’t care if Trump wins? Seriously?
I came across this post on Sam Smith’s blog several days ago:
The Progressive Review was one of the earliest, longest and strongest critics of the Clintons but compared to Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton is merely a corrupt, selfish, and untrustworthy politician, something we have lived with throughout our history. Trump, on the other hand, is the most dangerous threat to the republic of any presidential candidate in the nearly four decades your editor has been covering politics. Our strategy for this election: get Clinton elected, then immediately launch a multicultural issue-based movement that will force her to do the right thing and change the nature of our politics. Remember that the support for Trump is largely from older Americans; the young are on the right track, they just haven’t figured out yet how to organize – Sam Smith
Robert Reich – Can we have a word? I continue to hear from many of you who say you won’t vote for Hillary Clinton because, you claim, (1) she’s no better than Donald Trump, or (2) even if she’s better, she’s still corrupt, and you refuse to vote for the “lesser of two evils,” or (3) you don’t want to reward the Democratic Party for corrupt primaries that gave the nomination to Hillary instead of Bernie Sanders.
Please allow me to respond.
(1) Anyone who equates Donald Trump with Hillary Clinton hasn’t been paying attention. Trump is a dangerous, bigoted, narcissistic megalomaniac with fascist tendencies who could wreak huge damage on America and the world. Hillary isn’t perfect but she’s able and experienced. There is simply no comparison.
(2) Even if you see Hillary Clinton as the “lesser of two evils,” the greater of two evils in this case (if you see the choice in these terms) is seriously evil. You’ve probably had occasion in the past to vote for someone who doesn’t meet your ideals, when the alternative is someone who falls much further from those ideals. This doesn’t mean you’ve sold out or compromised your principles. You’ve just been realistic and practical. Realism and practicality are critically important now.
(3) I understand your frustration with the Democratic Party, and your reluctance to “reward” it for its bias against Bernie in the primaries. But anything you do that increases the odds of a Trump presidency isn’t just penalizing the Democratic Party; it’s jeopardizing our future and that of our children and their children. All of us must continue to work hard for a political system responsive to the needs of ordinary Americans. The movement Bernie energized must not and will not end. But Donald Trump, were he to become president, would set back the cause for decades.
It’s just “lesser evilism” again and again and again, over and over, and LOOK AROUND you, buddy; we get EVIL anyway. The Establishment is playing us like Pavlovian dogs. Eff that routine. Never again. I don’t give a good G.D. if Satan is running R and J.C. is running D; its’ all an Establishment trick. Time to go after THEM for-a-change, with a third Party (Greens in my case). EFF the lesser evil…go for the Greater Good this time. Time to start choosing what we WANT, NOT just keeping away what we FEAR, which we end up GETTING ANYWAY. WAKE UP!!!
Here’s a few questions I’d like to ask:
It’s been patently obvious to even the most doltish of dolts or paid corporate shill that strong democratic labor unions over the last 80 years in both the manufacturing and service sectors clearly correspond to much higher wages, better benefits, safer work conditions, more vacation time and an altogether better standard of living for the vast majority of working people of all races, genders, genitalia identity, sexual orientation and ethnicities who today are slaving away for miserable pay and benefits.
What’s your plan to strengthen labor unions, these vessels of economic and political justice?
Do you support repeal of the union busting Taft-Hartley Act?
Do you support “card check” which does away with employer and management chicanery and games and allows for a work site to essentially be immediately unionized in a strong ‘closed’ shop (meaning everyone is represented by the union and there are no free-riders) once 51% of workers choose to form a union?
How do you plan to spread the commonsense fact that labor unions better the well-being of working people? it’s a commonsense fact you as President could easily disseminate from your powerful bully pulpit. Do you intend to use your bully pulpit to spread the word incessantly against a corporate owned media that will either be hostile to this message or pretty much ignore it?
This comment is meant as a reply to Joe Tedeky’s comment of September 28 at 4.11pm .
Joe, I too was a “Berniebot”. His platform addressed all the issues that you and I agree on, and that Mr. Winship rightly pointed out were not even bought up in this charade labelled as a debate. Bernie really had the platform that actually would have gone a long way toward making America great again.
Sadly, he was doomed from the get go, and made a fatal mistake by running as a Democratic Party candidate. For two reasons. His platform is no longer what the Democratic Party believes in. Secondly, The DNC is bought and sold by the Clinton machine. He was never going to overcome that. And they were not ashamed to let that be revealed.
If Bernie had of been in that debate last night, standing at the podium as a third candidate representing an independent third Party, he would have cleaned both their clocks big time. On all issues, offering Americans real solutions.
But sadly, the opportunity was lost. Squandered even. And his continuing support for the Queen of Chaos just makes me despondent. This idea that she is going to listen to him, and lean towards his ideas is just….well, wishful thinking.
It is most likely that the Greens will be on your state ballot. Vote for them. They encompass Bernies’ campaign issues and more. All is not yet lost. Bernie cannot probably break free from this campaign cycle (ie. blackmail of some sort). But the Greens can release him from his capture by the Dem leadership. Vote Green.
Dennis, there was a moment in time towards the end of the Democratic primary where I thought how Bernie could jump ship and go Green. I would have had him run as Jill’s Vice President. Bernie’s name recognition got a big boost from his running nationally as a Democratic main stream candidate, and after being in this bright limelight for over a year that would have been a welcome quality for the Greens to have on a presidential ticket. Jill’s younger age, coupled with her appeal to the woman voter, would have provided the perfect alternative for the identity minded electorate. Add to that Jill by her nature gives off a certain kind of visionary charisma which I see as a good thing for an executive leader to have. Bernie’s experience in the legislature would have paid off well for the Greens to make this a beautiful voter oriented dream team. I really do believe that Americans would like to vote left if given the chance, so the Jill/Bernie ticket would have been an attractive ticket to see on the ballot this November.
I apologize for my bad attitude today. It’s just to overwhelming at times to try and stay positive when nothing you thought you could relie on seems to work right. The best part is, I do knew better, but like many others I trip on the same tripwire every time. I personally believe that the U.S. President takes orders from someone, or even a bunch of someone’s, so it probably doesn’t matter a whole lot what I believe…but it’s good to be alive and spending time with all of you.
Mr. Owen and Mr. Tedesky, Bernie said he’ll support the Democratic candidate if he lost.
I have read many comments on this site. Many are off-the-wall ones by people who don’t have a clue about very much and others who are very intelligent. Your post about the demise of this country due to union busting is right on target. It is the #1 reason the country is in the shape it is in. There are articles being written that over 70 per cent of Americans do not have $1000 in savings. (They probably have the latest electronic equipment to keep them informed though.) Many Americans are against unions because they are brain washed. They would rather work for a lot less money than pay dues. I have worked on both sides having belonged to unions and also owning a business. Some of the “informed” ones on this site propose Donald Trump as the answer to our problems. His treatment of labor has been horrendous.
Thanks Daniel Foley. No doubt, the relentless attack on unions that’s gone on now for the last 35 years is one of the secret reasons poverty levels have shot up, inequality is off the charts and middle class/working class, and heck, even upper middle class folks are worried to death over basic economic security.
No one has treated labor worse than Obomba,the Clintons and the Bushes via Reagan.
Have you seen Trump saying that there is no savings because the interest rates are abysmally low,which increases stock investing?And who has dough to do that?The rich.
The reason the unions died is because there is no labor base to unionize,its all been shipped by the globalist scum to impoverished slave labor nations,and the leaders of the unions are all corrupt pos.
This site has lost its mojo,its all Rip van Winkles still in the slumber of outmoded political scenarios,that the demoncrats and rethuglicans are opposing forces,when in fact they are a borg of zion,and hate US.
It was a very boring affair. Neither impressed me, merely retrenched themselves. Donald as the blustering blow-hard, and Hillary the fake angry Liberal.
When will the masses learn they are just voting to support their ruling class?
https://therulingclassobserver.com/2016/09/04/paradise-suppressed/
The debate was just one more insult added to the notion that Americans have a say in it’s presidential election. I’m truly starting to buy into the belief that Donald Trump is nothing but a prop, a cutout, posing as a political rival to the Bush/Clinton dynasty. If this is a real election, then it maybe an even bigger insult to the American electorate to be forced into accepting these two very unqualified people to be the next U.S. President. Trump issues promises to maintain an American white majority even if it means trashing the U.S. Constitution to do it. The one group we do know that the Donald will serve well are the wall builders. Hillary, now a known criminal suspect, goes about her way acting as though she is the only real choice Americans have to pick from on Election Day. Hillary’s passes off the DNC sabotage of the Sanders campaign as a Russian conspiracy to control American politics, and what’s worst, is Hillary supporters believe that garbage. This whole presidential election charade is meant to give us all the impression that we live in the one and only truest democracy on earth, and it’s not. If it were your political values would be represented somehow, somewhere, by someone, running for the highest office in this land. If you can relate to either of these two imposters then your safe, if not then I’ll see you on Election Day outside the voting booth where the rest of America will be seen standing there in disappointed disbelief to how all of this could have happened to a country who could have done so much better, but it didn’t.
Joe, the Greens are on 47 state ballots. I think the Libertarians are on all 50 state ballots. These are two National Parties. Americans aren’t forced to pick between the D and R losers. The G and L parties will be staring them in the face when they’re in the voting booth. Now, whether or not the voting machines are so grossly rigged so as to erase votes from G and L…I don’t know the answer to that. All you can do is make your mark and hope it’s registered truthfully. I’m going to shove it down the throats of D and R.
I hope to make D and R pay dearly for foisting this travesty upon us. There is NO going back for me. I’m burning all bridges and “taking no prisoners” so-to-speak. I hope 20 or 30 million join in a “Declaration of Independents”.
Brad if I vote it will be for Jill Stein. Although, I do believe that powers way beyond ours will pick the next President. I have loss all faith in our democratic system, and that’s to bad for me, but I don’t wish to spoil the idea for the many others who continue to believe that we are still somehow living inside of a democracy. Think of all the money that has been poured into these campaigns, especially Hillary’s, and then try and pretend it doesn’t matter. Think of the voting machines, which leave no paper trail, and are easily hackable, then try and convince yourself that the potential of stealing an election isn’t possible. Conspiracy minded people like me are marginalized anyhow, so why would anyone take someone like me serious? I can’t stop what’s going down, but I sure as hell don’t need to join in on the make believe game that we are all playing. Brad, I’m more with you, than without you, but on this day I just can’t allow myself to be duped once again.
We’re actually on the same page. I don’t care if J.C. Himself is running. If He has a D or R after His Name, I’m still not voting for Him. No more Democrats or Republicans will ever get my vote. I want to drive them into the Dustbin of History. I’m voting Dr. Stein. I’m voting Green. I’m sending them a monthly check from now on (ten bucks; until I discover if THEY are on the Wall Street/Corporate bribery rolodex; hence I’ll remain an Independent and drop them in the can too, like yesterday’s garbage). Since money talks, if 20 million people sent ten bucks a month to the Greens; that’ll make 2.4 BILLION bucks a year in the Greens’ “War Chest”, almost TEN BILLION every presidential cycle. The NRA is very powerful with just a few million members. Think of 20 million Greens. That’s as strong as the old Labor Movement, and they got a Department named after them.
I was very angry at Bernie’s betrayal, but I’ve decided he’s a P.O.W. and unable to freely speak his mind. They’re holding some kind of threat over him. I think the World only operates by-way-of Conspiracy, but the people sometimes wrestle the conspirators to the ground, pinning them down for awhile. I think we’re in one of those historical eras.
Talking about Bernie, my wife and I and some of our kids gave boat loads of money to the Bernie campaign, and for what? Don’t get me wrong, I can accept losing in a fair fight, but the Democratic primary was anything but fair. All of this, just so the Democratic sociopaths could gang up and sabotage any chances that Bernie may have had, and no one is doing anything about it, including Bernie. I mean what in the hell is going on with that. I guess all’s fair in love and Democratic politics, and we should just accept that as being the way it is. And there are many who do accept this, because there’s no where else left to go.
Bernie’s convention platform where he is going to keep an eye on Hillary, is more of the same false belief that is being thrown around, in order to make it look like that we are still some kind of democracy. After watching the Clinton’s for all these years, I find it hard to put any belief into what Bernie is attempting to do with them. I feel this way mostly because it is the Clinton’s who are the ones that we are entrusting all our hopes, and wishes with. Seriously, does anyone really believe that Hillary will respect and pursue any progressive values?
I’m serious when I say how I think Hillary looked high at the debates. Go back and look at her, and see if you see what I see. She appeared to me to look like a person who was far and away removed from taking anything in a serious way. This was probably what she trained for, but again take a good look at her demeanor, and tell me if she wasn’t taking something.
To bad for the Donald that with all of any training, advice, or coaching, he is still going to be ‘the Donald’. It’s not his fault, it’s what made him famous in the first place. I do expect to see Donald pass Hillary in the polls this coming week. Mostly because I know how the media fury over Trump’s poor performance during the debate is upsetting Trump supporters near and far. The backlash coming from the Trump followers is going to knock the critical media pundits for a loop. Trust me, Trump’s numbers are only going to get bigger. Hillary may have won the debate as per the MSM pundits, but Trump is going to get the real bounce from all of this…just you wait and see.
Just think America took 2 years to make the biggest mistake of it’s history.
Perfect analysis, Joe. People who disagree must be under the impression that their vote makes any difference, when after this primary season, we can fuggedaboud dat.
My mothers name was Olivia. In the house my mother grew up in, her father use to rent their street level basement out for voting booths. There was a porch right above the basement entrance, and my mother and her ten siblings would take turns sitting on the porch swing watching voters come and go. From the second floor porch my mother could see as all the voting ward chairmen who would arrive in the early morning, and they would go straight to my uncles corner saloon to hustle votes. My mother would watch drunks come and go all day long, leaving my uncles bar to go to her dad’s basement and vote. My mum said how at times you would see one of the drunken men leave the bar wearing a Democratic button, and then at another time the same drunk would go vote wearing a Republican button. While some ward chairmen went door to door, a few staked themselves out at the bar, and recruited votes from my uncles tavern. This was an all day thing until the voting polls closed down. That would have been in the late twenties and into the early thirties when life was somewhat different, but voting was still then what it is now…a tampered with rigged process.
Sorry Olivia, but with that oh so familiar name (Olivia) I just had to tell that story about my mother, who was as apolitical as you could get. Only in all fairness to my dear sweet Mum remember what she saw as a little girl growing up…. She thought all politicians were in someway disingenuous at the very least. If it means anything my mother didn’t like braggadocio Trump, and she thought Hillary was nothing more than a dangerous opportunist…not bad for a apolitical girl, wouldn’t you say?
Lastly Olivia maybe you and I should go vote. Vote for Jill and piss off Hill!