Exclusive: The U.S. media’s Ukraine bias has been obvious, siding with the Kiev regime and bashing ethnic Russian rebels and Russia’s President Putin. But now with the scramble to blame Putin for the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down the shoddy journalism has grown truly dangerous, says Robert Parry.
By Robert Parry
In the heat of the U.S. media’s latest war hysteria rushing to pin blame for the crash of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet on Russia’s President Vladimir Putin there is the same absence of professional skepticism that has marked similar stampedes on Iraq, Syria and elsewhere with key questions not being asked or answered.
The dog-not-barking question on the catastrophe over Ukraine is: what did the U.S. surveillance satellite imagery show? It’s hard to believe that with the attention that U.S. intelligence has concentrated on eastern Ukraine for the past half year that the alleged trucking of several large Buk anti-aircraft missile systems from Russia to Ukraine and then back to Russia didn’t show up somewhere.
Russian-made Buk anti-missile battery.
Yes, there are limitations to what U.S. spy satellites can see. But the Buk missiles are about 16 feet long and they are usually mounted on trucks or tanks. Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 also went down during the afternoon, not at night, meaning the missile battery was not concealed by darkness.
So why hasn’t this question of U.S. spy-in-the-sky photos and what they reveal been pressed by the major U.S. news media? How can the Washington Post run front-page stories, such as the one on Sunday with the definitive title “U.S. official: Russia gave systems,” without demanding from these U.S. officials details about what the U.S. satellite images disclose?
Instead, the Post’s Michael Birnbaum and Karen DeYoung wrote from Kiev: “The United States has confirmed that Russia supplied sophisticated missile launchers to separatists in eastern Ukraine and that attempts were made to move them back across the Russian border after the Thursday shoot-down of a Malaysian jetliner, a U.S. official said Saturday.
“‘We do believe they were trying to move back into Russia at least three Buk [missile launch] systems,’ the official said. U.S. intelligence was ‘starting to get indications a little more than a week ago’ that the Russian launchers had been moved into Ukraine, said the official” whose identity was withheld by the Post so the official would discuss intelligence matters.
But catch the curious vagueness of the official’s wording: “we do believe”; “starting to get indications.” Are we supposed to believe and perhaps more relevant, do the Washington Post writers actually believe that the U.S. government with the world’s premier intelligence services can’t track three lumbering trucks each carrying large mid-range missiles?
What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.
The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.
Instead of pressing for these kinds of details, the U.S. mainstream press has simply passed on the propaganda coming from the Ukrainian government and the U.S. State Department, including hyping the fact that the Buk system is “Russian-made,” a rather meaningless fact that gets endlessly repeated.
However, to use the “Russian-made” point to suggest that the Russians must have been involved in the shoot-down is misleading at best and clearly designed to influence ill-informed Americans. As the Post and other news outlets surely know, the Ukrainian military also operates Russian-made military systems, including Buk anti-aircraft batteries, so the manufacturing origin has no probative value here.
Relying on the Ukraine Regime
Much of the rest of the known case against Russia comes from claims made by the Ukrainian regime, which emerged from the unconstitutional coup d’etat against elected President Viktor Yanukovych on Feb. 22. His overthrow followed months of mass protests, but the actual coup was spearheaded by neo-Nazi militias that overran government buildings and forced Yanukovych’s officials to flee.
In recognition of the key role played by the neo-Nazis, who are ideological descendants of Ukrainian militias that collaborated with the Nazi SS in World War II, the new regime gave these far-right nationalists control of several ministries, including the office of national security which is under the command of longtime neo-Nazi activist Andriy Parubiy.[See Consortiumnews.com’s “Ukraine, Through the US Looking Glass.”]
It was this same Parubiy whom the Post writers turned to seeking more information condemning the eastern Ukrainian rebels and the Russians regarding the Malaysia Airlines catastrophe. Parubiy accused the rebels in the vicinity of the crash site of destroying evidence and conducting a cover-up, another theme that resonated through the MSM.
Without bothering to inform readers of Parubiy’s unsavory neo-Nazi background, the Post quoted him as a reliable witness declaring: “It will be hard to conduct a full investigation with some of the objects being taken away, but we will do our best.”
In contrast to Parubiy’s assurances, the Kiev regime actually has a terrible record of telling the truth or pursuing serious investigations of human rights crimes. Still left open are questions about the identity of snipers who on Feb. 20 fired on both police and protesters at the Maidan, touching off the violent escalation that led to Yanukovych’s ouster. Also, the Kiev regime has failed to ascertain the facts about the death-by-fire of scores of ethnic Russians in the Trade Union Building in Odessa on May 2. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “Burning Ukraine’s Protesters Alive.”]
The Kiev regime also duped the New York Times (and apparently the U.S. State Department) when it disseminated photos that supposedly showed Russian military personnel inside Russia and then later inside Ukraine. After the State Department endorsed the “evidence,” the Times led its newspaper with this story on April 21, but it turned out that one of the key photos supposedly shot in Russia was actually taken in Ukraine, destroying the premise of the story. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “NYT Retracts Ukraine Photo Scoop.”]
But here we are yet again with the MSM relying on unverified claims being made by the Kiev regime about something as sensitive as whether Russia provided sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles capable of shooting down high-flying civilian aircraft to poorly trained eastern Ukrainian rebels.
This charge is so serious that it could propel the world into a second Cold War and conceivably if there are more such miscalculations into a nuclear confrontation. These moments call for the utmost in journalistic professionalism, especially skepticism toward propaganda from biased parties.
Yet, what Americans have seen again is the major U.S. news outlets, led by the Washington Post and the New York Times, publishing the most inflammatory of articles based largely on unreliable Ukrainian officials and on the U.S. State Department which was a principal instigator of the Ukraine crisis.
In the recent past, this sort of sloppy American journalism has led to mass slaughters in Iraq and has contributed to near U.S. wars on Syria and Iran but now the stakes are much higher. As much fun as it is to heap contempt on a variety of “designated villains,” such as Saddam Hussein, Bashar al-Assad, Ali Khamenei and now Vladimir Putin, this sort of recklessness is careening the world toward a very dangerous moment, conceivably its last.
Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s. You can buy his new book, America’s Stolen Narrative, either in print here or as an e-book (from Amazon and barnesandnoble.com). For a limited time, you also can order Robert Parry’s trilogy on the Bush Family and its connections to various right-wing operatives for only $34. The trilogy includes America’s Stolen Narrative. For details on this offer, click here.
Maybe a prayer will help?
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/01/nuclear-war-doesnt-exterminate-us-ebola-virus-might-paul-craig-roberts/
If there is a God, I hope he knows, that there are not only evil people on Earth!
Here is the proof that MH17 has been shot down by Ukrainian jet fighters and not by BUK missile. Hopefully this should stop any further parroting of US-NATO fairy tale version of the event by bloggers on this site. Hope common sence will prevail.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/31/germans-say-mh17-shot-down-by-ukie-migs/
Hello!
I came across this site http://www.redstate.com/2014/07/18/may-terrible-tragedy-flight-mh-17-overweening-narcissism-barack-obama/
and read about this narcissistic personality disorder. Is it true? Is Obama sick? Not that I question it … but I wonder, if he has such a disorder (and the written symptoms on this site and his goal to be the KING of a totalitarian world (new world order) … ), how can he be the president of the United States???? This man is insane and dangerous for the whole world! In my opinion he seriously is the Evil!!!!
I’m German, planned for war against Putin ;)
The sicker the better. It sounds sarcastic but nevertheless it’s true.
That witness (of the recording, which may be false) argued that sees military transport aircraft AN-26 and open parachute (parachutist) …. transport aircraft An-26 was shot down in the Luhansk region a few days befor 17.07….
Thank your for your articles – https://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/19/airline-horror-spurs-new-rush-to-judgment/, https://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/ !
May be you have already this data, but I’m ready to share it with you.
It really seems that USA or other UN countries do not have not-fake satellite images or other clues about ‪#‎MH17‬ crash. But there is an official Russian version ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSpeo5RcQQo ), and Canadian review ( http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag/5393317 ).
Thank you!
There is a witness from Torez who saw the plane crash who said he saw a rocket flying from the direction of Russian border. The town of Torez is not far from the border. What it means is the rocket was launched somewhere in proximity to the town and that IS territory controlled by the separatists https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc6diAsLzVY
MORE ON GOOD JOURNALISM:
In Ukraine’s current military environment, searching for absolute proof of guilt through satellite imagery alone seems ill-advised. There are many indications of “proof†provided by many well-respected news gathering agencies. Just one, of many, is found here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/20/the-evidence-that-may-prove-pro-russian-separatists-shot-down-mh17
Robert Parry’s jingoistic anti-neo-Nazi assertions and an arguably well-founded mistrust of any and all proclamations from any and all western governments are obvious. Unfortunately, in this instance, this natural skepticism has overpowered all usual ability as an impartial journalist. What is also obvious is that if Mr. Parry could apply the same journalistic rigor to his own writing, which he here demands of others, it might make reading this piece by him more worthwhile.
MORE ON GOOD JOURNALISM:
In Ukraine’s current military environment, searching for absolute proof of guilt through satellite imagery alone seems ill-advised. There are many indications of “proof” provided by many well-respected news gathering agencies, besides the Post. Just one, of many, can be found here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/20/the-evidence-that-may-prove-pro-russian-separatists-shot-down-mh17
Robert Perry’s jingoistic anti-neo-Nazi assertions and a arguably well-founded mistrust of any and all proclamations from any and all western governments are obvious Unfortunately, in this instance, this natural skepticism has overpowered all usual ability as an impartial journalist. What is also obvious is that if Mr. Perry could apply the same journalistic rigor to his own writing, which he here demands of others, it might make reading this piece by him more worthwhile.
Where did take good journalism? Good Journalists in Ukraine the nazis killed
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Ðа юго-воÑтоке Украины помимо Боинга-777 было Ñбито ещё неÑколько украинÑких военных Ñамолётов Ðн-26 и Су-25. Причём на больших выÑотах, там где обычные ПЗРК “Игла” и “Верба” не доÑтают. ВопроÑ: кто Ñто Ñделал? Ðмериканцы? Рможет Ñами украинцы бьют по Ñвоим Ñамолётам “в порÑдке учений”? Очевидно нет. ÐÐ»ÐµÐ¼ÐµÐ½Ñ‚Ð°Ñ€Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð»Ð¾Ð³Ð¸ÐºÐ° подÑказывает, что Ñто либо ÑепаратиÑÑ‚Ñ‹ из любезно предоÑтавленных г-ном Путиным буков, либо Ñ Ð Ð¾ÑÑийÑкой территории или иÑтребителей. И тот кто Ñбил Боинг целилÑÑ Ð² Ñамолёт ВС Украины. Ð’ любом Ñлучае либо как поÑобник либо иÑполнитель в Ñтой трагедии виновата РоÑÑиÑ. Однозначно.
Однозначно – любимое Ñловечко некоторых руÑÑких политиков… УкраинÑкие военные Ñамолеты и вертолеты Ñбиты на малых выÑотах “подручными”ÑредÑтвами… Боинг Ñбили штатные армейÑкие чаÑти выÑотной ракетой… Ðто выгодно заинтереÑованным мордам на Украине и ее заокеанÑким ÑпонÑорам, но не выгодно ни РоÑÑии ни ополченцам…
Ð Ñ‚Ñ‹ наверное ÑÐ²Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¤Ð¡Ð‘ÑÑˆÐ½Ð°Ñ Ñволочь Ð¶Ð¸Ð²ÑƒÑ‰Ð°Ñ Ð² СШÐ, Ñ‚Ñвкаешь под хвоÑÑ‚ Кремлю за гроши.
Oh, how you can explain that:
http://bit.ly/1khZWZY
An here you can find some proofs that flightradar.com data for previous MH17 routes over Ukraine has been altered indeed:
http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17s-usual-route-would-have-kept-it-out-of-eastern-ukraine-2014-7
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10975524/Crashed-MH17-flight-was-300-miles-off-typical-course.html
Ð Ñ‚Ñ‹ похоже ÑÐºÑ€Ñ‹Ñ‚Ð°Ñ Ñволочь, Ð¶Ð¸Ð²ÑƒÑ‰Ð°Ñ Ð² Украине, Ñ‚ÑÐ²ÐºÐ°ÑŽÑ‰Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ хвоÑÑ‚ коломойÑкому за Ñерьезную зелень от него?
Ucranian special services prepared evidence of rebels blame in that action previously. For example – rebel leaders talks radio intercept movie on youtube file encoded date UTC 2014-07-16 19:07:49 !
Links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwtxBA1m9x8
http://rusvesna.su/sites/default/files/styles/by_text/public/b073059c31135440b24d4cacf71db8dc.jpg
You can not blame anyone until a full investigation taking into account all the evidence. Author is certainly right.
I have some questions to mr. Robert Parry. Are you aviation expert? or maybe anti aircraft missile expert? Have you seen satellite data for that day? visited crash site? I don’t understand how mr.”author” can write such a bullshit and make stupid conclusions. My advice to author – stop listen terro-RUSSIAN propaganda and start using you brain (or maybe Putin pay you to write such things).
P.S. “Kiev regime” phrase no one use in civilised world…..except Putin.
One does not have to be an aviation expert to understand, that Flightradar24.com data about previous fligts over Ukrane has been altered.
Worth reading.
And here is the proof:
http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17s-usual-route-would-have-kept-it-out-of-eastern-ukraine-2014-7
I’ld like to add some more info to that:
“Yes, there are limitations to what U.S. spy satellites can see. But the Buk missiles are about 16 feet long and they are usually mounted on trucks or tanks. Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 also went down during the afternoon, not at night, meaning the missile battery was not concealed by darkness.”
take a look, there not only one truck or tank, there are bunch of supporting vehicles with bunch of special training soldiers and command, who have to operating with that bunch of complex… Those all not a damn box of matches…
“A standard Buk battalion consists of a command vehicle, target acquisition radar (TAR) vehicle, six transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) vehicles and three transporter erector launcher (TEL) vehicles. A Buk missile battery consists of two TELAR and one TEL vehicle.”
Ukraine did not full DOS or anyone else in U.S. Gov. If anything, this situation has U.S.’ handwriting all over it. This is a spectacular false flag.
It is completely irrelevant who shot the plane because it was shot in a war zone. The issue is who diverted the plane into the war zone and why? The air traffic control tapes would have shed some light on it, but they have been made inaccessible. The black boxes should not have been turned over until Ukrainian (and US) secret service turned over the air-traffic-control tapes. Most of the discourse on this tragedy is useless until those tapes are released to the public.
If we had more jurnalists like yourself i’m pretty sure that governments would have a harder time brainwashing people with the use of their mass media assets…for example all i have seen on CNN in the week following the crash of MH17 was a constant bashing of the rebels and Putin with no tangeble evidance whatsoever and the reporter that was on the scene was only showing small areas of the crash and he concentrated more on the rebels with the guns than on his interviews of the people that witnessed the crash.In my opinion the recovery operation of the bodys couldn’t have gone any better,in a small village like that you dont have a carpenter that can make 300 coffins in 3 days to give the victims “the dignity they deserve”,and that reporter like i said kept bashing the rebels about not allowing the recovery of the bodies,all those people could do is gather the remains as fast as possible and store them somewhere where they won’t decay any further from the heat that’s why they asked the local miners to help out,because they didn’t have the manpower or time to recover each individual body before they decayed any further.I would also like to mention the fact that that reporter cut his interview with the Dutch representative from the recovery team the moment he started saying that the rebels are giving them full acces of the site and that they are colaborating well,he then proceeded to tell a compleatly different story in another location far different from the one said by the Dutch representative to further harbor hatred towards the rebels arguing that the Dutch representative said that on camera just so that the rebels won’t get angry.I havent’t seen him interview a single normal person from that village to form a better picture on what actually happened there.I find it hard to belive that nobody in that village didn’t see how the plane got shot down and from what direction did the missle that shot it down came from,because i personally look up at the sky almost every time i hear a plane flying above and i doubt that nobody else has a similar reflex like mine.
“What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?”
That’s the problem with living in a POLICE STATE wherein the presstitute newsmedia only reports on what it is ALLOWED to report, hence ..YOU’LL N E V E R KNOW!!!
Interesting independent investigation of missile launch site:
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.ca/2014/07/exact-location-pinpointed-of-mh17.html
I find it curious that one of the most serious counterclaims in this article is based on visual comparison of two types of uniform (probably made at the same factory) as seen from space. While technology is progressing and is indeed amazing, the author still had to note himself that the missiles in question were about 18ft long and therefore, due to significant size, could be identified visually. But discerning differences in camo patterns from space? Sorry, that’s a red herring.
VETERANS TODAY story by Seth Ferris titled “Korean Airlines KAL 007 Case Shows Parallels with Malaysian Airlines MH17” in which the U.S. trainer Capt. David H. Adrian of the Korean pilot Captain Chun Byung-In who who flew KAL007, was quoted as stating that Capt. Chun of Korean Airlines flew deliberately into Soviet airspace in 1983 and there is no way he could have done such an act accidentally, it was not even possible that he could without being fully conscious of the fact he was deep in Soviet territory because all a pilot sees flying a commerical liner from Anchorage to Seoul is blue and blue and more blue of infinite sky and sea, and then if a land mass such as Kamchatka is seen from the cockpit, you have totally screwed up and you know it immediately– and to press ahead deliberately hundreds of miles into the most highly restricted Soviet airspace shows intent and purpose http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/23/neo-cold-case-mh17-faint-echos-of-kal007-shootdown/ Finally after repeated warnings of many sorts the desperate Soviet pilot Lieut. Col. Gennadi Osipovich in 1983 shot down KAL007 over Sakhalin near Kamchatka Peninsula, Russia. The Americans have yet to apologize for this error of one of their U.S. specially trained Korean pilots, nor for the shooting down of Iran Air Flight 655 in 1988. Perhaps the U.S. authorities could AT LEAST this time give to the world their satellite data on MH17 and perhaps shed light on the details –and not simply parrot the CNN and BBC bad habit of hearsay and mean spirited war mongering gossip against the specially manufactured boogey man Putin!– GIVE US the satellite data USA, corresponding to the MH17 plane crash. Come on, let’s all try to be professional and not just react like lobbyist controlled puppets, in a western media that is in lock-step with NATO ambitions of conquest! Put up or Shut up regarding the satellite data.
If the world in 1983 never believed that the pilot of the Korean KAL007 that flew over Soviet Kamchatka Island and then Sakhalin — after many hours in Soviet space –true to his mission Capt. Chun of Korean Airlines NEVER responded to radio control nor visually from cockpit to cockpit with the Soviet fighter jet pilot who tipped his wings many times to signal “hey, what the hell are you doing in the most dangerous hot spot air zone on the planet?” [just as US government is not responding to international requests and pleas for the U.S. to release its satellite data from the half hour of the crash time of MH17]. We could all ask in an incredulous voce sotto voice like Christiane Amanpour, “why would there be justice and fairness and objectivity today if not in 1983 with KAL007?” This link http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/23/neo-cold-case-mh17-faint-echos-of-kal007-shootdown/ tells the story of the U.S. military and commercial jet liner trainer who trained Capt. Chun. It tells how the trainer Capt. David Adrian later shared the information that Capt. Chun knew 1000 percent with certainly that he was flying off course into Soviet airspace and playing a cat and mouse game with Moscow radar command control line back to Vladivostok, endangering the lives of his crew and passengers. Most probably pilot Capt. Chun had some kind of gun held to his head and was coerced into such a web of deceit, or perhaps he was so deeply loyal to his handlers he saw justice in his gambit, but one thing, It was no accident. This old 1983 event is repeating itself again 31 years later in a game to blame Russia once more for a crime committed by other guilty parties.
for more on the U.S. special trainer who coached KAL007 pilot Capt. Chun how to fly Boeings between Seoul and New York City, and the heavyweight intel directors that graduated from his 1956 class, I found this…
http://ikeya_zhang.tripod.com/CLASS_OF_1956.html
So, I agree that the news agencies all suck. We have known that for years why do you think we’re on the internet? But where is your condemnation of the same propaganda coming from the other side? Of Russia Today, a very popular alternative US news source publishing complete hearsay and rumor as fact? What about how Russia was busted paying off hundreds of people, to make up to 10 accounts on foreign news websites and blast the comment sections with disinformation and prejudice?
How about the FACT, as reported by ITAR-TASS and voiceofrussia.com that one June 28th the Donetsk rebels took over a Ukrainian air defense base and captured a # of Buks? They definitely had the means. It wasn’t even necessarily provided by Russia. They stole it 3 weeks ago. Common knowledge if anyone would bother looking.
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_29/Donetsk-militia-takes-control-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262
But hey, like you said. Nobody cares about facts anymore. It’s just like the US job creation statistics, they get adjusted 2 weeks after the announcement every month. I am the first to jump on the bandwagon of false flag, coverup and gov’t misinformation when appropriate. I see the BS coming out regarding this, and it sucks that there is such a heavy spin on it. However, just because it looks like propaganda, doesn’t mean it isn’t true. I believe it is pretty obvious from the evidence presented, MH17 was shot by rebels.
anyways… interesting article. I like your ideas, thought process. But lets focus a little bit more on actual facts, not just other rumors you heard.
ACTUAL VIDEO FOOTAGE OF MH17 SHOOT DOWN PROVES ONE THING WITH CERTAINTY July 22nd, 2014
That the Western Powers, including NATO, have in their possession the satellite imagery, technical data and radar signatures which categorically locates exactly where in the eastern Ukraine the missile was fired from which took down MH17. The unique signatures, in particular, also identify the precise type of missile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaeSwhen4mQ&list=UUKqFo29EDYngB8QcWEJ3Smg#t=31
je suis francophone, billingue et c’est avec un veritable soulagement que j’ai lu l’article de Mr. Parry. il a ete tres bien de resouligner toutes les erreurs commises dans le passé par le gouvernememt Americain avec la complicite coupable de la CIA et de tous les allies des Etats Unis, suivistes a perfection de la politique et des manupilations americaine. Avant de rapporter des faits qui peuvent entrainer le monde dans une guerre nucleaire aux consequences incalculable, les journalistes du Washington post doivent revoir leur copie et ne pas entrainer les populations du monde dans le mensonge. Il m’est aujourd’hui difficile de comprendre pourquoi les USA veulent a tout prix destabiliser la Russie. A plusieurs egards les Russes sont plus corrects que les Americains qui poussent leur expansionisme hors du commun a l’extreme. Le monde peut etre fier de journaliste tel que Mr. Parry qui ont l ccourage de dire la verite au monde. Putin semble plus intelligent qu’on ne le pense.
Thanks, Bob. We, peace-loving Europeans who love life and desire for friendship and cooperation on our continent, are extremely grateful for such words.
Very good article. Thanks for it !
I am French and unfortunatly french media proceed the same way and US media regarding this subject.
I just hope that Europe will wake up and understand nothing is good into this.
I am currently not proud to be part of this Europe !
Politics is a dirty business. If the United States know that the plane was destroyed military Ukrainian us know they never say. Never! Europe will also be silent version of guilt Russia already announced, it suits the whole world, and most importantly, this version arranges U.S.
I commend the author for the quality of his journalism on this critical topic which is at the very center of a maelstrom that certainly could now pull the world into a World War from which there WILL NOT BE AN ESCAPE-CLAUSE OR CEASE-FIRE.
I have taken the liberty of posting this article on the following news information site that some of us have developed, in addition to others, but here, with a focus on MH17.
http://tdyn.org/public/ukr/MH17 (note, it is case-sensitive)
I recently completed a two-month mission in Ukraine that had several functions and purposes, one being related to economic and social/scientific development, the other being to gather information pertaining to precisely, exactly, the issues that we are seeing now unfolding.
What Mr. Parry describes and writes about here is focused upon MH17, but the roots that led up to the Shooting-Down of MH17 go deeper in a history that is more insidious and gnarled and infected than most people would imagine. Things began to surface in a clearly grisly and brutal way during the Maidan Demonstrations and Surges of Public Activity in the past winter. There is so much that is not known by the public, especially outside of Ukraine, that should be known, but which has been suppressed and simply kept out, locked out.
Many things more are simply not accessible to journalists and investigators who do not have the avenues, connections, channels, abilities to get IN to certain persons, groups, and parts of the culture and the subcultures. For those of us who have spent the time, energy, resources, and taken the personal risks, there has been a great amount of information gained.
Now is the time to get this information assembled and integrated with that of others and with those persons, like Mr. Parry, who can be effective and helpful, by our collaboration, jointly, in getting the Facts, the Few but important Words of Truth, out to the World.
I am ready and able to go anywhere, and to work diligently and seriously with anyone else who is committed to Truth and to Averting What Is Coming Almost Certainly Upon our World because of this Endless Course of Ignorance, Deception and Lies.
Thank you,
Martin Dudziak (USA)
Agree with the first commenter: It’s not “sloppy” when they do it deliberately. Don’t make excuses for biased propaganda in the so-called “news.”
The Nazi Kiev regime has used FALSE FLAG tactics at least twice before. The February snipers were in a hotel occupied by the Maidan forces and shot people on both sides of the protest lines.
http://politicalfilm.wordpress.com/2014/04/19/german-tv-neo-nazi-ukraine-protesters-were-the-snipers/
The Odessa massacre used a squad of about 30 police provocateurs to initiate the violence and incite mobs to attack the pro-Russian activists camped outside the union hall.
http://politicalfilm.wordpress.com/2014/05/14/odessa-provocateurs-censored-news/
This latest atrocity would not be different in type, only in audacity and technical coordination. Our paid CIA death masters have been in the country since April.
The Russians have deemed the audio intercepts to be a glaring fraud:
http://politicalfilm.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/russian-audio-analysis-ukraine-intercepts-a-fraud/
The Malaysian plane was diverted north toward the war zone by Kiev air traffic controllers. A military jet was seen on Russian radar approaching and circling the wreckage. Photos show BUK launchers controlled by the Nazi Kiev regime in the East on July 17.
http://politicalfilm.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/russian-mh17-evidence-against-ukraine-nazi-regime/
The only other party to this conflict that has the motive, the opportunity and method of shooting down flight MH17 is Ukraine in a false flag operation.. A missile of this type would leave behind tell tail signs and residue. Ukraine must allow an independent international team of experts to undertake a forensic audit of its BUK missile launchers (27) and its arsenal to determine if any had been recently fired or missile missing. Such an audit would go a long way towards ruling in or out Ukraine;s involvement.
Unfortunately, 300 million Americans, or 95% of our population will never read this article, but instead will see the mainstream television news in America that will repeat “Russian-made missile systems”. There are plenty Americans who have read this and don’t want war. But the majority of the US could care about anything except for having fun, making money, and watching television. They do not care about what is going on in the world.
Then there’s us Americans reading this who know. And if it were just us voting, our country would be doing a lot of good in the world. Unfortunately, there’s those other 300 million Americans who just don’t care enough to lift a finger.
I do not know the truth, but I’m grateful to the author. This is a difficult time for us.
If the Boeing was brought down by separatists or moreover by Russian – it is pretty OK. It is safe to blame Putin, to gather more sanctions against Russia (which will help US win some share of European markets) and so on.
However if the aircraft was shot bu Ukrainian forces, either by mistake or intentionally – then the great trouble arose! So many top-politicians of Europe and America have take part in protecting Ukraine side – and then it will at once appear they protect regime which with a flick of the wrist killed almost 300 foreigners, Europeans among them.
Surely opposition leaders will use it as the mighty blows against Merkel, Cameron, even against Obama etc. This would be an earth-quake in the field of EU and US politics.
So what is the choice for all these poor people – chancellors, presidents and prime-ministers?
I’m just a poor boy, Russian of Ukrainian descent – and I can soberly believe in both versions. However for many-many influential people of our world there could be just a single answer despite any facts or evidence which could be found in future. This is just like the “matter of life and death” to them.
And by the way it is the great chance to avenge Putin who severely hurt the political image of many countries by conquering Crimea while no one dared to stop him. :)
So I am cheerful anyway. The only bad thing is that those passengers died. Slightly surprised that no one put the blame on ones responsible for restricting flights over the area of the conflict.
In “media hysteria” about the catastrophe Malaysian ship no professional skepticism, says the American journalist and political analyst Robert Perry (Robert Parry): no one is asking key questions and not to answer them. In his article on the independent Internet portal consortiumnews.com he was surprised by the fact that so far Washington has not filed any evidence in support of his allegations.
“It is hard to believe that was not observed moving a few large Buk” from Russia to Ukraine, and then back to Russia, given the attention with which the U.S. intelligence watched Eastern Ukraine in the last six months”, – says the journalist. In his opinion, even with all the technical limitations of U.S. satellites would have to detect the movement of such large objects. Besides, the plane was shot down during the day and not in the dark, which could hide missile battery.
In all probability, says Perry, citing unnamed source, the American special services, in fact, received pictures from the satellite, but the rocket launcher on them were owned by the so-called Kyiv troops,namely by force and hastily driven residents in fear of criminal prosecutions and the Nazis from the neo-fascist organisation the right-radicals “Right branch”
However, mainstream media do not require from Washington specific details, but only “spreading propaganda”,untested and apparently hastily fabricated data, for example, the system “Buk” in the Western press has consistently called Russian,but in this case, all the weapons of the so-called Ukrainian army is Russian because all armament Ukraine inherited from the Soviet times,and its new power or refused or is likely to have failed-not before-“it was necessary to break the legacy of the great Empire”. “Is meaningless fact that I repeat without end”, designed, according to Perry, to influence the minds of ill-informed Americans.
Robert Perry also notes that most of the arguments against Russia comes from the so-called Ukrainian government which came to power through unconstitutional coup and has the best reputation in terms of finding the truth,but frankly speaking clearly and many lie. It is still unknown who was shot on 20 February the police and protesters on the square; not clear inhuman circumstances of the massacre in Odessa House of trade unions, Nazi thugs of the “Right sector”is not shy about right under lenses camcorders to kill their victims iron bars and shoot a weapon, proudly calling “Bandera”-yeah-yeah that same war criminal, the executioner and Nazi accomplices of the Nazis……
Le71EydGiuyb
Hallo I’m from Germany and I found this article just today.
I am very surprised about it,cause here at home no media is telling us about it.
Since I’m very unhappy with the development in Ukrainia from the start and I’m voicing my discomfort and disapproval with western actions to overthrow the goverment of U and the way the new regime there is acting against their own people,declaring them subhuman and such,in german media like the magazin ‘Der Spiegel’.And I can really tell you the mainstream there goes :”only Putins fault,Putin’s a criminal’etc.I can tell you,all the old and new Nazis in the forums come creeping from under the carpet,and demanding war against Russia plus kind of concentration camps for all Russians living in Westereurope as much as for those called ‘Putinlovers’.
Most of the time,voices like mine are supressed in the commentary section.
So aren’t we supposed to live in the ‘free world’?
What I’ve done now,I contacted my,what you in the states would call,’local congressman’
and voiced my concern.
I think,that’s what a lot more people should do,in the US and Europe.Call those people in charge and tell them,that we want a non-biased Information,and openminded discussion about what happend.And the last thing we want is a bigtime war for Nazis and economics.
I’m so sick of being lied to.
In fact it is irrespective what kind of uniforms the guys wore, Ukrainian, Russian and separatists’ uniforms aren’t that different. Separatists could even wear Ukrainian-like uniforms with some modifications, not to be seen from satellites. That doesn’t matter at all. The most interesting, no, the only important question is: *Where* was this BUK system? From *where* did it send its missile? In the remaining Ukraine territory or in the so-called “Novaya Rossiya” under control of separatists?
So, is anyone knows that Russian ministry of defence proved, that near plane was 2 unknown objekts that seems like another planes? I think, answer will sounds as “no”.
Thanks for truth!
Now the truth about the Boeing downed 17.07.2014
The aircraft MH17 was partially destroyed after being hit by a missile SA-11 Gadfly (Ukrainian troops shot), but the plane was damaged, continued the flight ( Sealant of cockpit has not been disrupted and allowed to control the flight). To remedy the situation, were raised to the sky 2 Ukrainian aircraft SU-25 (one of them was a Polish pilot), was two control shots. Stiffness of the wing was broken and Boeing fell.
RIP
Sorry, but the truth does not need anyone. The operation was planned in advance and created a media picture against Russia.
4 days have passed. Ukrainian SBU destroy evidence: conversation of pilots and dispatchers, who led the plane. Destroyed all the evidence cleans people who were witnesses. Deleted an account of Spanish dispatcher, who wrote a real-time about two military aircraft near Boeing during the fall. Stolen a record of the flight control center. Etc…
Now Ukrainian punitive given the task in any way take away from the DNR militias recent evidence: Black Boxes of downed aircraft. To damage and destroy the evidence.
Peace!
PS.
1. SU-25 with external tanks that 17.07. 16.45-16.50 flew from Dnepropetrovsk, returned 17.50-17.55. This flight is not recorded anywhere officially.
2. Computers and Dispatchers. Near the cemetery (25m) constantly crumbling ravines. If there is a bold climber, you will find many interesting things. Or anyone. Killed and buried after the destruction of Boeing.
3. Tapes from the dispatcher’s control center were seized by employee of the CA SBU.
Information 100%
VERY Last News.
Eliminated participants missile launch SA-11! “Today, the ATO died half a platoon defense. Where there was not even fighting!”. Ukrainian army covering his tracks …
http://cs613423.vk.me/v613423608/19f06/FZi3xQCf_2Y.jpg
We Russians do not want war, time will tell who is who
What indicates that the battery was under the control of Ukrainian government troops, the uniforms? I would not rely on the look of uniforms. The separatists wear many different kinds of uniforms. The only reliable distinction would be a Ukranian flag sleeve patch. I doubt that satellite images provide such resolution.
Much more interesting is the question where was this missile battery, in the separatist or in the government controlled area.
Hello. I apologize for the bad language. Read about your site in the Russian media.
I will leave the link to the video. Briefing of the Ministry of defense of the Russian Federation on catasrophe Boeing 777.
With English translation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPop2oSw6Xo
Why americans are doing at first, then thinking about? All wars for the last 10 years were started by americans, but when they thinking in the end they said that they didn’t know some facts, or lie about or something else… Do you remember Colin Powell liar speech before Irak war? Do you remember liar when americans shot down Iran civilian plane in 1988 (killed 290 people)? What about 09.11 and Afganistan war? What about Siria war and himical weapon (only Russia could stop the war…)?
So right now they make it again and you, not smart people, are trusting to them… you giving to them Nobel’s prize for the peace…
I don’t say that Russia is too clear, but for the last 20 years Russia didn’t kill civilian people in another countries. But what we listen everytime – Russia is agressor… Maybe f* ck everything and making war?
Why americans are doing at first, then thinking about? All wars for the last 10 years were started by americans, but when they thinking in the end they said that they didn’t know some facts, or lie about or something else… Do you remember Colin Powell liar speech before Irak war? Do you remember liar when americans shot down Iran civilian plane in 1988 (killed 290 people)? What about 09.11 and Afganistan war? What about Siria war and himical weapon (only Russia could stop the war…)?
So right now they make it again and you, not smart people, are trusting to them… you giving to them Nobel’s prize for the peace…
I don’t say that Russia is too clear, but for the last 20 years Russia didn’t kill civilian people in another countries. But what we listen everytime – Russia is agressor… Maybe f*ck everything and making war?
Запад так трактует: в Сирии повÑтанцы, а в Украине террориÑÑ‚Ñ‹; в ЮгоÑлавии референдум, а в Крыме и Юго-ВоÑтоке Украине беззаконие и легитимноÑÑ‚ÑŒ… Ð¥Ð¾Ñ‚Ñ Ð˜Ð·Ñ€Ð°Ð¸Ð»ÑŒ вводит войÑка в ПалеÑтину и уничтожает людей, а Запад молчит. Ркак дела в ÐфганиÑтане, Ираке…? Люди ни за что погибли и гибнут. Ха, и там тоже Запад молчит.
Западу плевать на международные законы, правила ВТО… Ð’Ñе, нет правил и законов. Одно вранье и двойные Ñтандарты. Чем больше правды мир узнает, тем меньше народу погибнет.
Kuzmich, you are so right. America has caused many wars. American people are also very tired of war. Most Americans want peace. Let both of us live long enough to see this peace. I have always thought how when America and Russia Joubert hands, then we will have a better world. Peace to you, and yours.
…………………………
Кузьмич, вы Ñовершенно правы. Ðмерика вызвала много войн. ÐмериканÑкий народ также очень уÑтали от войны. БольшинÑтво американцев хотÑÑ‚ мира. ПуÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ð¾Ð¸Ñ… жить доÑтаточно долго, чтобы увидеть Ñтот мир. Я вÑегда думал, что когда Ðмерика и РоÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ð–ÑƒÐ±ÐµÑ€ руки, то у Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð±ÑƒÐ´ÐµÑ‚ лучший мир. Мир вам, и вашим.
Kuz’mich, vy sovershenno pravy. Amerika vyzvala mnogo voyn. Amerikanskiy narod takzhe ochen’ ustali ot voyny. Bol’shinstvo amerikantsev khotyat mira. Pust’ nas oboikh zhit’ dostatochno dolgo, chtoby uvidet’ etot mir. YA vsegda dumal, chto kogda Amerika i Rossiya Zhuber ruki, to u nas budet luchshiy mir. Mir vam, i vashim.
nice article, but russia will burn, with this shitty kremlin-propaganda article too! thanks for your opinion
Recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrhEzecCdTI
Да вÑе Ñ Ñамого начала понимали, что Ñамолет Ñбили украинÑкие военные. ПроÑто, еÑли Ñто признать, то получаетÑÑ, что террориÑÑ‚Ñ‹ как раз те, кто ÑÐµÐ¹Ñ‡Ð°Ñ Ð·Ð°Ñ…Ð²Ð°Ñ‚Ð¸Ð» влаÑÑ‚ÑŒ в Киеве, а Ñто очень не выгодно западным режиÑÑерам Ñобытий на Украине.
Boeing hit the Ukrainian’s army. definitely!
I’m Russian, and I’m proud of I’m Russian. Russia is the only country in the world that upholding its national interests and preserving its cultural and historical identity aim to conduct independent foreign and domestic policy. I am glad to know that there are people in the U.S. who have the courage to have their own opinion and ignore the lies of American propaganda.
Браво! Я Ñ Ñ‚Ð¾Ð±Ð¾Ð¹ водки бы выпил! ПриÑтно видеть, что не вÑе американцы долбоебы! РеÑпект!
Truly said. Not all Americans are stupid. And it pleases.
Many realize that the government has always been that it is silent. And in this case with Boeing. I hope Americans come to their senses and stop supporting Ukraine.
Что Ñ‚Ñ‹ пишешь? ЗдеÑÑŒ Ñерьезные темы обÑуждают. Ðе позорьÑÑ!
I will salute you with my coffee…I don’t drink. Yes, all Americans are not stupid. Take care friend, and peace be with you.
……………………………………………..
Я приветÑтвую Ð²Ð°Ñ Ñ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¸Ð¼ кофе … Я не пью. Да, вÑе американцы не глупы. Берегите друг, и мир будет Ñ Ð²Ð°Ð¼Ð¸.
YA privetstvuyu vas s moim kofe … YA ne p’yu. Da, vse amerikantsy ne glupy. Beregite drug, i mir budet s vami.
Surely not all people are stupid, regardless of their nationality.
I’m currently employed in the joint US-Ukraine-Russia company so we are having bit fun and bit tough time here :)
I am Russian, born and raised in Russia. I have lived in Russia for 34 years and in US (Texas) for 10 years. I have worked with Americans for 22 years. I must say the vast majority of Americans are friendly, nice and hard-working people.
I wish our leaders would have the same opinion of each other.
You should ask the whistleblower if he can get any information about satellite images on MH370. I find it hard to believe with the technology we possess (I’m active duty USMC, I know there’s technology beyond public knowledge) that they still don’t have any evidence of this planes whereabouts.
I dare to agree here. It was almost impossible to believe that the giant plane carrying many people and tons of sophisticated communication instruments – could just get lost so that no one of the wise and skilled have at least vague idea where it have gone.
And after that – wow – it seems that oracles can still tell exactly who launched a missile which is millions times smaller. Especially if this information will help in some tough political debates. :)
I served in the Marines too. I’d love to know what MOS gives you access to satellite imagery that’s “beyond public knowledge.” While I agree you may know capabilities of the satellites–I hardly believe you have any real knowledge of capabilities and/or limitations of satellite data controlled and analyzed by the intelligence services. Unless you are claiming to be assigned to the DIA as an analyst–which would be an odd claim if you are here posting that you are active duty USMC and “have knowledge”–furthermore, what does satellite capability have to do with detecting a plane’s whereabouts?
Not trying to start a comment war with you–but I’m a little tired of people asking questions or giving opinions and then qualifying themselves with credentials that don’t quite mean anything in the scope of what they are saying.
Вот так новоÑти!!!
http://www.ufoseek.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=7100&start=3760
In “media hysteria” about the catastrophe Malaysian ship no professional skepticism, says the American journalist and political analyst Robert Perry (Robert Parry): no one is asking key questions and not to answer them. In his article on the independent Internet portal consortiumnews.com he was surprised by the fact that so far Washington has not filed any evidence in support of his allegations.
“It is hard to believe that was not observed moving a few large Buk” from Russia to Ukraine, and then back to Russia, given the attention with which the U.S. intelligence watched Eastern Ukraine in the last six months”, – says the journalist. In his opinion, even with all the technical limitations of U.S. satellites would have to detect the movement of such large objects. Besides, the plane was shot down during the day and not in the dark, which could hide missile battery.
In all probability, says Perry, citing unnamed source, the American special services, in fact, received pictures from the satellite, but the rocket launcher on them were owned by the so-called Kyiv troops,namely by force and hastily driven residents in fear of criminal prosecutions and the Nazis from the neo-fascist organisation the right-radicals “Right branch”
However, mainstream media do not require from Washington specific details, but only “spreading propaganda”,untested and apparently hastily fabricated data, for example, the system “Buk” in the Western press has consistently called Russian,but in this case, all the weapons of the so-called Ukrainian army is Russian because all armament Ukraine inherited from the Soviet times,and its new power or refused or is likely to have failed-not before-“it was necessary to break the legacy of the great Empire”. “Is meaningless fact that I repeat without end”, designed, according to Perry, to influence the minds of ill-informed Americans.
Robert Perry also notes that most of the arguments against Russia comes from the so-called Ukrainian government which came to power through unconstitutional coup and has the best reputation in terms of finding the truth,but frankly speaking clearly and many lie. It is still unknown who was shot on 20 February the police and protesters on the square; not clear inhuman circumstances of the massacre in Odessa House of trade unions, Nazi thugs of the “Right sector”is not shy about right under lenses camcorders to kill their victims iron bars and shoot a weapon, proudly calling themselves “Bandera”-yeah-yeah that same war criminal, the executioner and Nazi accomplices of the Nazis.
Thank you for this article! I live in Kiev and I witnessed all this Nazi’s triumph this winter. Just imagine: in the center of the European city there is a crowd – largerly came from Western regions of the country – chanting Nazi slogans, which are now become so common that young people don’t even take them critically. Our youth is becoming Nazis, they think like Nazis, they want blood of the Eastern Ukrainians and whoever else who thinks other way that they do. When Poroshenko paused the war for negotiations just for several days, a crowd of young Nazis came to his office chanting war-slogans and all the rest of the Nazi propaganda that Poroshenko shouted at Maidan.
And now Ukrainian TV shows Parubiy (Nazi, mentioned in this article) who blames Putin in everything evil that a human can do. He doesn’t want to go in details, he just claims Putin with the last words and that repeats all day long on Ukrainian TV. There are no alternative channels in Ukraine, everything that is controversial to the official prpaganda has been recently forbidden. The majority of Kievans look like real Zombi, repeating mantra “Putin is to blame” whatever bad happens: prices went up – Putin is to blame, joblessness went up – Putin… and so on… No one binds these events with the terrible course of the Nazi government, “Putin is to blame” is a comfortable answer to all questions.
Alas, americans are in the same boat…
So your anonymous sources are trustworthy and reliable, but their anonymous sources are not.
Interesting, but unsatisfying. If this whistleblower is legit, he/she should be able to provide more detailed information.
I hope you have more up your sleeve, Robert.
http://brothernathanaelchannel.com/watch_video.php?v=R8ASHGWGG68M
There is the distinct problem here in that the Missiles were already in the Oblast, they were there because they were part of the Ukraine order of battle, the weaponry of Ukraine, Russia didn’t give it to the rebels Ukraine Military left them, they have been there for months!
This is the reason that the US hasn’t got Photograph of their movement out of Russia!
As to WHO fired the Missile in Question, Ukraine has 4 regiments of these weapons and either side could have fired one, No one has asked Ukraine to give a proper inventory of their remaining missiles, nor the separatists theirs! Russia gets to verify because they sold the missiles originally they HAVE the serial numbers!
One must take the US versions just as suspect as the Ukraine or the Ukraine Separatists or Russian versions as to what happened this is a classic Proxy war of the Cold war era, America providing Billions of dollars to one side and Russia to the other side, of course could you imagine the chagrin of the US if Russia was to provide Billions of dollars to overthrow say the Mexican Government, or in fact Russia decided to again park Nuclear weapons again on Cuba! Could you imagine the yelling and Bluster of McCain, but of course he is more than happy for America to do it to another country!
Yes, America has gone mad, support the genocide of innocent people. I live close by and it’s terrible what makes America and Ukraine! why my comment deleted? hard to hear the truth?
Yes, America has gone mad, support the genocide of innocent people. I live close by and it’s terrible what makes America and Ukraine!
What amazes me is how a lot of folks I know (who vote democrat) defend the Obomber and even sound like neo-cons. I always ask them, do you want a nuclear war with Russia? Crazy! If we make it to 2016 I’d like to see Elizabeth Warren vs. Rand Paul but I know we’ll have instead Killary vs. Jeb. The Federal Reserve will fight to the death of the last middle class American in order to preserve their petrodollar system.
777 crash investigation.
What holds back the U.S.
http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/
Reading comments on this website is like a breath of fresh air, after scrolling though dozens of “Those Russians again..somebody has to stop them” type comments on MSM sites. Btw, If you still didn’t see the press conference of Russian Diffence Ministery about the plane, i encourage you to do it. In my oppinion very informative!
Then maybe you can explain this communication … I have heard and translated the audio.
According to a translation of the Russian audio by the English-language Kyiv Post, the recording begins with a separatist commander, identified as Igor Bezler, telling a Russian military intelligence official, “We have just shot down a plane.â€
In another call, a man who seems to be at the scene of the crash says that a group of Cossack militiamen shot down the plane. He adds that it was a passenger jet and that the debris contains no sign of military equipment. Asked if there are any weapons, he says: “Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medical equipment, towels, toilet paper.â€
Asked if there are any documents among the debris, the man says, “Yes, of one Indonesian student.â€
it was FAKE!
Now It is proven that this audio file was crude forgery by the Ukrainian security services. Undeniable evidence: 1. Original recording was published BEFORE the day before the crash of the Boeing. 2. Recorded alternate stereo and mono audio track is very rough fake.
Your faith is based on social networks and yellow information box stuffing, you are being manipulated. Zadumatsya. Learn to read between the lines and answer the main question: Who benefits?
KAL Flight 007 http://www.rescue007.org/pr01.htm
can you ask your ‘insider’ about the nato AWACS that have been operating in the area since the takeover…?
should have lots of juicy gossip on those. so far every outlet has refused to mention a single thing.
operating from out latvia.
Yup, just what I’ve been wondering. Maybe that’s why the Russians came up with this “our radar saw a plane” to make the US show what it saw…. Or maybe they even saw one!!!
Moreover there is a video from February 1 or 2 days after the snipers shot people at Maidan of Parubiy stopped in his car by activists and in the truck of his car there is a sniper rifle. And for some reason he is let go. There are literally hundreds of people surrounding that car and they see its a sniper rifle with a silencer. But they let him go. And that video and information it provides was never investigated after. Nothing is known about who shot and why. And no one seems to care.
Regarding the Maidan sniper attack,: . German investigation finds opposition on Maidan behind SNIPER ATTACKS. German TV ARD, Monitor program (like US 60 minutes). Video w English subtitles. Search onenessofhumanity maidan massacre.
Alternatively, or in addition for broad interpretation of consequences search Michael Hudson Report Ukraine to see that video too.
This has gone viral in Europe but is blacked out in US. Was aired in Germany approx April 11. Relies upon dissenting member of Kiev ‘investigation’.
Another topic: Seems US is bent upon confrontation: If Senate Bill 2277 passes, Russia has 7 days to w/d from Crimea and its own border or much worse sanctions. The Bill contains other scarey things. See Eric Draitser article Legislating WWIII.
Great comments people. It’s heartening to find so many so well-informed.
Thanks, Okasis, for answering my question above. I gotta say, if I were a commercial airline pilot, I would not fly over a war zone at 100K feet, and if my bosses told me to do it, I’d find another job.
Actually, the fight plan called for 35,00 feet, but the flight came down to 33,000 feet. Usually this departure from flight plan wd be at request of local control tower. You know about the Spanish Air Controller who was in the tower and has gone public since, right? Just search Spanish Air Controller M17 to see his tweets.
The US LIARS have fallen silent on all the technical data they were going to use to PROVE Russia did it. I once had a Cop give me a ticket for running a red light ….. he noted ON the ticket that he had video ….. when I showed up in court …. he “LOST” the video……..
Would you really want the enemy to know your true capabilities? I think not. Also what photographs, the Pentagon did not analyze any photos or claim to have any the possession of photos was purely a fabrication of the Kremlin. The evidence they do probably have are most likely radar recordings of launches.
The evidence of which this article has none. The evidence I am talking about is phone recordings, location of the crash, known videos and images of travelling missile systems, social media posts about the downing of another Ukrainian aircraft, known control over the area (DNR) and it being an outbound flight. Intercepts if deemed hostile are inbound. This flight would have been deemed hostile from the Russian side as it was incoming to Russian airspace.
The case is overwhelming which is why everyone has jumped on it and I agree the news had not adequately reported on Ukraine, even when Maydan was burning there was a maybe a 5 minute reel.
I am 67 years old, I am living in France, I worked as a lawyer and as a judge for more than 40 years, I am now retired and I would like to give you my point of view.
In order to remain objective, I do not want to conceal my personal background, and I consider as a duty to inform our fellow readers of Consortium News that I am a French citizen, and that I have very close personal ties with Russia, since my wife is Russian. I speak fluent Russian, I love Russia, Russian civilization and Russian people, I have traveled to Russia many, many times since 1964 and I would like Russia to remain a strong and independent power, capable to resist any foreign appetite.
I am also a reader of French, Russian and American press.
Everybody seems to believe that it is very important to know who exactly launched the missile that hit the Malaysian airplane.
That question seems important, but is not essential.
As it is always the case in historical questions, understanding the situation in Ukraine depends largely on the length of the period being studied.
For most people the situation in Ukraine was more or less settled since the “election” of Poroshenko. After his election President Poroshenko declared that the situation in Eastern Ukraine would be solved in a very short time by the intervention of armed forces. Since that election the western medias, and in particular the French press, gave only very scarce, if any, information about the civil war going for weeks in the East of Ukraine, although the number of innocent victims as well of refugees fleeing from Eastern Ukraine is growing every day.
Until last week the civil war going on in Ukraine was nearly forgotten by the public in Western countries. That is the first and main result of the propaganda war made by the medias, prolific about sanctions against Putin and Russia, and silent about the victims among the so-called pro-Russian separatists or terrorists.
As a consequence the crash of Malaysian Airlines sounds like a burst of thunder, waking up the public opinion in the mid of summer holidays. Of course everybody wants to know who launched the missile, although the majority of the public, notwithstanding a total absence of evidence, is ready to believe Poroshenko, Obama, Nuland, Mc Cain and others charging Putin, Russia and the separatists with the responsibility of the crash.
The same gullible people have already forgotten the lies of the American administration and of American presidents during the Vietnam and Irak wars, and as for the crash in Ukraine, nobody is asking for evidence. For the majority here in France, Obama told it, Kerry told it, it must be true.
Nonetheless there should be, there is some evidence.
If American satellites can spot cans of beer on the ground, they should probably be able to trace and to identify a whole missile system and its possible transportation from one place to another. US officials refer to some evidence such as photographs made from satellites, it is their duty to show that evidence and to allow a free discussion and the assessment of proofs.
It is to fear that experts, if they confirm that the crash was caused by a missile launched from the ground, will not be able to determine the place of the launching. But even if we get clear evidence that the missile was launched by insurgents in Ukraine or by the Ukrainian army, what’s the difference after all? Who is going to be judged or punished? The incompetent soldiers and officers who made the mistake or perpetrated intently a crime? The drunkard who pushed the button? Who is really responsible for the crash, from a legal point of view?
The crash of the Malaysian airplane should not be used as a screen to hide the political responsibilities really encountered in the Ukrainian civil war.
The real responsibility is not legal, it is political, and that’s where Putin, whether you like him or not, is nonetheless right when he refuses to dissociate the crash from the whole story. In initiating and maybe planning a situation that turned into civil war in Ukraine, and in meddling without legitimate reason into internal Ukrainian affairs, the United States, European countries and, to some extent, Russia necessarily created an utmost dangerous situation and they should bear a part of that huge political responsibility.
Although it sounds very sad and rather laconic for the victims and their families, the crash of the Malaysian airlines flight is a consequence of a civil war going on for months in Ukraine, and that consequence was fully predictable. It is not – or not only – the legal responsibility of a few missile operators, neither the responsibility of Malaysian airlines, it is mainly the political responsibility of wicked forces who are nonetheless clearly identified, and who are until now trying to solve their problems by the use of force.
Whoever launched the missile, and until a compromise can be found, the question of political responsibility will remain unanswered, because nobody wants to ascertain and to know the truth. Presidents and governments probably know what exactly happened, but they are not too keen to tell us. As for the public opinion, the majority relies upon the mainstream medias (in France, TV channels and newspapers like Le Monde, Le Figaro, Libération) and official propaganda, and does not ask any question.
In focusing the public opinion on the crash of Malaysian airlines in Ukraine, political leaders are trying to hide their own responsibilities. Here is the real lie, hammered by propaganda.
As Castoriadis, a well-known philosopher in France, once said, man is more interested in believing than in knowing. Moreover, when they receive the true information, people usually try to ignore it or to forget it, they remain partial, biased, prejudiced, and they keep on supporting their corrupted political leaders. Nonetheless truth remains necessary and useful, it helps making pressure on politicians who fear the truth and who try to conceal their criminal actions. In that respect truth is more efficient than any international court or judgment.
For those who are members of the minority still fighting for truth, I would like to express how I appreciate the spirit of independence and the comments made by those good men, journalists of Consortium News. I hope, that their seeking for truth will help to find a settlement in Ukraine and to put an end to those horrible crimes committed every day against the people living in Ukraine.
Thanks for the detailed and candid comments. Just for calibration purposes, do you remain convinced that KAL-007 in 1983 was intentional diverted into Soviet airspace and intentionally ignored contact attempts?
You ask me if I am remain convinced that KAL-007 in 1983 was intentionally diverted into Soviet airspace and ignored contact attempts. I did not mention any conviction about that tragedy during the Cold War, and in any case it does not help understand the present situation.
In general it is easier for me to doubt and to understand who is lying than to know who is telling the truth.
That is probably why you consider my comments as candid. It is difficult nowadays to remain candid.
Candid who is the name of a character created by Voltaire, was so disgusted by the world’s evils that he lost any naiveté and eventually decided to “cultiver son jardin”.
That is what is going to happen to me, since there is nothing or little I can do against war criminals and the greedy materialistic powers for whom those crimes are commited. My love for Russia, for Russian culture, history and language is part of the garden that I am going to cultivate!
If I don’t agree, does that mean you won’t approve my post?
When the Iraq war started, I was amongst the first screaming for evidence. No one seemed interested in hearing my opinion. This time, I think they’re right. Your ‘source’ is likely as credible as any single individual or government. I don’t trust Putin, he’s lying through his teeth, can’t even look into the cameras. If he didn’t order the missile launch then why avoid phone calls?
Your article sounds paranoid.
I’m Australian, can’t stand Abbott…didn’t vote for him and never would. He’s an idiot and anything he says goes into my ‘disregard’ pile. I’m using my own opinion here, sifting through what I hear and read and coming to my own conclusions. I don’t trust Ukraine much more than Russia. BTW I have both Russian/Ukrainian grandparents. They tell me Putin reminds them of Stalin in many ways.
As for your “unsavory” neo-Nazi comment, let me remind you of the millions of Ukrainians (and Russians) murdered by Stalin. My grandparents thought he was as bad as Hitler. You sound like a pro-Russian sympathizer, just like my husband’s best friend, a PhD engineer who was born in Australia (has Russian parents) and believes nothing that puts Russia in a poor light. In fact, he said if we go to war he’ll fight for Russia.
What a stupid, senseless debate, finger pointing and denigrating Russia vs Ukraine/West.
Finally, how were “independent” investigators meant to assess the site when the OSCE couldn’t get decent access?
The whole, “fake” recordings is too ludicrous to believe and this whole article seriously undermines your credibility as an “independent” reporter.
“Your article sounds paranoid.”
um,
your response sounds like a whining bitch.
nobody cares about your blinders, we’re here to expose calumny of historic proportions. stop wasting our bandwidth.
Sorry but your long story doesn’t make sense. Having a conflict on its borders puts Russia and its government in very peculiar situation. In other words Russia has no interest in escalating the conflict in Eastern Ukraine. Putin has shown unprecedented level of self restrain as a leader in modern history and by it he has spared us all so far from the misery of new WW. The same could not be said for US which has been constantly and recklessly pushing its lack.
And finally due to your family history as you acknowledge candidly you have a conflict of interests in the story of MH17 and without prejudice you do not qualify as an impartial observer.
Браво! ПриÑтно читать умного человека :)
Don’t blame Russia for Stalin who after all was a Georgean. The Whole Idea of the Soviet Union was to decentralize Russia – “assett strip” it so to speak – Unfortunately for the Ukraine their Rich Farmland meant that their farmers had much of the assets. Stalin did a lot of rotton things but we never hear the reasons why, the Russians hold him in high esteem for the many good things he did that the western media never was interested in reporting. Of couse Stalin was an absolute dictator and didn’t know everything but you couldn’t tell him that – he certainly was no expert in biology http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
If US has satellites that can pick up evidence against Ukrainians, wouldn’t you surely think that Russia would as well? But nobody’s talking. Why?
Today Russian Ministry of Defense gave a briefing with some tough questions towards Ukraine. Specifically:
1. RMoD representative stated they have recorded some military jet very close to MH17 almost at the time of incident.
2. Russians provided some satellite photos proving there were Ukrainian BUKs in the zone where the launch could be potentially made. They also provided pictures made few days before incident and stated that Ukrainian BUKS moved closer to the rebel controlled areas between 14th and 17th of July.
3. Russians also told they have information on the American satellite that was passing over the zone at the moment of incident. They asked US officials to provide openly the pictures from this satellite.
If anyone here is able to read Russian they can have a look at short summary with pictures here:
http://marina-yudenich.livejournal.com/1184947.html
This was typed hastily as soon as the press conference was finished, by someone who clearly speaks English as a second language, but it does answer your question:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1
Russian military authorities reveal the space images:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ApFcuiSD8w
Where in the video did you see satellite photos, I couldn’t find them.
Please read, listen and consider the following!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/10898385/13-planes-vanish-from-radars-over-Europe.html
http://adam.curry.com/enc/20140720012844_1801925hunkolinke.pdf
http://mp3s.nashownotes.com/NA-636-2014-07-20-Final.mp3
(from 1hr 08mins to at least 1hr 14mins)
http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/
Also keep in mind that Putin had just come from the BRICS Summit in Fortaleza where most of South America’s leaders also attended. Prior to that he dined in the Casa Rosada in Buenos Aires (equivalent of the the White House) with Cristina Fernández and Pepe Mujica, and before that had met with Daniel Ortega, and before that he was in Cuba to reestablish an abandoned base. In Argentina he offered technical assistance with the aging Atucha nuclear plant. Note the photo of the BRICS leaders alongside the presidents of several South American countries: http://gbtimes.com/world/experts-and-media-hail-putins-visit-latin-america – none of Putin’s foreign-policy accomplishments in Latin America are lost on the U.S.! The U.S. considers Latin America to be theirs to exploit. Think of the timing! Russia shooting down an airliner is totally implausible and illogical – in fact the most logical conclusion to jump to, if we’re going to jump to conclusions without waiting for a complete and transparent investigation, is that the act is a blatant false flag.
If the author has the evidence, i.e. the photos of the Ukrainian soldier with BUKs, then he should post them. If not, relying on ‘one source’ that saw the photos and arguing against rather strong counter-evidence based on this is actually an example of ‘sloppy journalism.’ You can find so many more than willing sources that confirm literally anything in Russia. For example, we already have someone who saw two Ukrainian military jets following the crashed plane (on that altitude one would require phenomenal sight) or a Spanish dispatcher that saw the same (but cannot actually speak good Spanish). So please stop obfuscating the truth because each and every word you use will be used by the Russian terrorists.
I guess one reason the pictures have not been published yet could be that it takes some time to do convincing Photoshop to modify them without the modifications being detectable. If and when we do see them, I doubt if the US could resist tampering with them as they did for the celebrated Colin Powell Iraq WMD Fantasy Show at the United nations.
It’s doubtful. Russian may have similar pictures.
It’s not the first time the UKRAINIANS have shot down a civvy airliner with a BUK missile system. This one was Russian and is still not resolved:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1359353/Ukraine-admits-it-shot-down-Russian-airliner.html
And for all those pro sanctions Americans, you foot the bill for it, because it will cost Jobs and cause inflation on a stagnant EU Economy.
This is your War don’t use the EU as your human shield.
Let me give you a perspective from Australia, which had 28 citizens on this flight. The morning of Friday started with Prime Minister’s screams in the parliament against Russia and Russia-backed rebels in Ukraine who shot down the MA plane. I heard this on the morning radio and I was imagining froth coming out of his mouth. It was unbelievable. My second image was that if this madman has a nuclear button to press he would have pressed it. So much hate. This was about 10 hours after the event. How did he know so quickly that it was THAT side in the conflict? Then the media torture started: rubbish, rubbish, rubbish, the hate was everywhere. Noticeably, the main printed medium in Australia, the Fairfax, the online edition never had any comments enabled, so it was always one-way, highly emotionally charged and Russia-bashing articles. Finally, this morning, they put an article about conspiracy theories, which singlehandedly disparaged all alternative views and opinions even though they could not even be voiced: these alternative opinions were all coming from the ‘crazy Internet’. That is it. The banks may be crooked, the politicians may be bent, but the production of BS is ever increasing. The ultimate worry is not the amount of BS, it is that this industry of idiots (politicians and media) are baying for blood and war: in the last couple of days I heard more people in this laid-back country talk about a war than ever before.
You are absolutely spot-on. I saw a comment on another outlet that said, “Two missiles were fired at the airliner, and the second one came from the ‘Grassy knoll’. The campaign to belittle any narrative conflicting with the ‘official story’ is already underway.
This just in wreckage recovery just discovered a pristine missile on a gurney. Soon Gerald Posner will write the final word on this tragedy in his next hit book. Russia did it! Now, move along, nothing to see here.
This has been second Air Malaysian airplane involved in an accident of highly suspicious nature this year. In both cases US government and military have been implicated. It seems like both Air Malaysia airplanes have been chosen for some reason to carry dangerous cargo. We would definitely need some more clarity on what has been transported on board MH17. Some description by eye witnesses of bodies found complete without trace of blood while in the cockpit the blood stains were all over it . What is a passenger list? Why the passports are found all at one place and they look like they have been issued recently? And then the devil is in details the name of the Air Malaysian CEO is Ignatius which unmistakably point to his affiliation to Jesuit order and probably Opus Dei. All roads lead to Rome. Remember dismantling of Soviet Union was joint operation of Vatican and US. They still haven’t finished it.
The Malaysian Airline angle might be related to the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal. It was founded by a former PM and recently convicted Bush & Blair and co. of war crimes, as well as more recently Israel in Nov. 2013. Malaysian Airlines is majority owned by the government. Might be a way of inflicting economic damage on the Malaysian government, under the radar so to speak, for getting a little uppity, as well as to show them who really runs the show, and yes, they’re not sqeamish about killing civilians to make a point.
The BUK system’s missile’s leaves a very thick contrail that would have hung in the air when the jet hit the ground; yet with all the video and human eyes trained on the sky, no reports or visible evidence of any type contrail–although two Ukie jets were seen following MH17 and the deployment of parachutes were reported. Furthermore, a great many civilian jets were overflying the same region at similar altitudes, yet none of them were ever attacked. Why is easy to answer: The Ukrainian AF has no high altitude bombers that would present potential targets, so there’s no need for such systems–MANPADS work just fine.
You’ve got it. Read my comment to Rowan.
Thanks God that there are still some people who know how to use their brains.
NATO SAM story has been fabricated to make Russia look complicit in the crime because BUK is Russian made and both armies have them. Every state sponsored terrorist event is carefully planed in advance and it’s in reality made of two separate events. One event is calculated to dazzle senses of eye witnesses and serves as distraction and other is well camouflaged main event that does a job.
911 airplanes hitting towers distraction demolition charges and tactical underground nuk explosion main event.
it is as if a script for this catastrophe had already been distributed by the usg and its nato allies.
don’t you think it strange that no one in the media, nor in any arena, contemplated that the aircraft might have been sabotaged by an altimeter-oriented, on board bomb?
so strange that a real terrorist involvement has been avoided, don’t you think?
it is also curious that the ukraine government has seized the atc controller tapes and that none care to mention that. because the malaysian aircraft seems to have been ordered to change course and descend to a lower altitude. can you hear the timer begin ticking so that the plane was over the eastern ukraine when the timer commenced the explosion?
it is also worth noting that the ukraine army has batteries of sa- 11’s. and all were in that region at that time. so far, the us propaganda machine promotes the notion that only russia has sa11 missiles. this is not true.
now, let us consider aerial recon. the usa’s national recon office[nro] runs satellite monitoring of the entirety of the planet earth. some areas are covered only by orbiting satellites. but areas of special interest are covered by satellites in geosynchronous orbit. washington dc is covered in that manner, by the way. which means that the nro knew exactly what happened in the abduction[?] of chandra levy. and it watched the aircraft events of 11/09/01 in real time.
the photographic resolution of these birds is probably 1-2 millimeters. it would be my opinion that the nro has pix of everything that has been occurring in the ukraine since the usg/nato implemented the coup d’etat.
just as an aside, don’t you think it interesting how no media mentions this satellite coverage concerning mh370? the nro has satellite pix that could tell the world everything about that airliner. odd isn’t it that no one is asking for that aerial recon?
Nice post & I wish to thank you for the spark plug. Have a great day J.T.
You raised good points – in keeping with your thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQRvINebeok If the US government had any evidence to support their noisy accusations, they’d be waving it around wildly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBAB_unT2kM There wouldn’t have been any commercial jet shot down over Ukraine if the US hadn’t directed a coup there.
It’s disingenuous to claim DPR/LPR did not have a “Buk” system. DPR trumpeted their capture of Ukrainian air defense base A-1402 in a Tweet datemarked “6.58 AM 29 Jun 2014” (@dnrpress, “dnr” being the russian version of the acronym, “dpr” the english version). The Tweet has now been deleted. Voice of Russia reported the capture of the base at 18.30 hrs on the same day, here. Novorus.info reported it on the same day at 19.50 hrs, here (this being an autotranslated version, for your convenience). Finally, Voice of Sevastopol reported at 21.40 hrs on Jul 14 that DPR or LPR (it doesn’t say which) had used this “Buk” complex to shoot down an Antonov An-26 military transport plane, flying at “more than 6,000 metres,” here (again, autotrans for your convenience). It is precisely the knowledge on the part of NATO than DPR/LPR possessed this capability, that led to the contrivance of the plot to artificially divert a passenger plane full of innocent civilians into a path directly over DPR/LPR territory and then to shoot it down. To admit to these facts may seem initially to damage the credibility of the DPR/LPR/Russian case, but I believe that more fundamentally, making a clean breast of the real facts will increase the credibility of our case, that NATO organised the shootdown, which was of course performed by a Kiev-controlled “Buk” battery.
Why are we parroting NATO story of MH17 being shot down by SAM? If I had two jet fighters flying in proximity of target at distance of ~2.5 km having visual contact with it and a SAM battery on the ground ~10 km away I would definitely use jet fighters to make my kill 100% sure.
Can anyone remember the last time the US government and/or the corporate press told the truth in this sort of situation? I certainly can’t. One might imagine that they would tell the truth occasionally just to muddy the waters, but apparently not.
Off topic but unavoidably so – Can something be done with the website formatting, the low number of characters per line in combination with the unnecessarily ferocious indenting, results in replies to previous posts being displayed practically vertically. This is not the 1990’s, it looks tacky and unprofessional.
As a muslim, I am a little trired of false flag operations.
Either we are accused of carrying them out or we are their victims.
A muslim’s life has become worth little to nothing.
Is this a clash of civilizations and who exactly claims to be civilized?
Are they the ones that become indignate of any question of the holocaust yet budy up to the neo-nazis of the Ukraine, eh Ms Nuland?
Could it be a false flag to win the lost propoganda war against Russia and at the same time cover up crimes against humanity in Ghaza.?
1) if the separatists did it, it had to be a horrible mistake. What possible gain could they realize from it? What possible gain for Russia even if they did supply the missiles? The Ukranian Nazis could make propaganda hay if they did it—I do not know that they did.
2) I have yet to hear a credible or substantive discussion for why that plane flew over a war zone in the first place. What were they thinking? Or was someone thinking for them? I would love to know the true rationale.
I may have an answer for question #2.
When this first happened I read that the airspace over Eastern Ukraine was was closed to commercial planes flying under 32000 feet[Approx 11000 Meters]. Two reasons were given for the closure: The Donetsk Militia had ground to air missiles capable of hitting planes flying at 12-14000 feet [4ooo Meters]; and the local airport was closed because of damage, so smaller, local flights were not able to land.
Don’t ask for the link. I don’t think it was in a US Media site, but whether it was RT. RTE, or Al Jazeera or yet another non US/EU site, I don’t remember.
Oops!
I forgot to mention the Malaysian Jet was flying at 33000 feet – Above the closed airspace, and supposedly safe from the Donetsk Militia’s known armament.
It is obvious that if the US actually knew, or even thought, the ‘Rebels’ could hit a target flying above 10-15000 feet, the airspace would have been closed. To the general ineptitude of our media and so-called Leaders, we should add stupidity. After all, the Russians proved themselves capable of hitting a fast moving, high flying target, when they brought down Gary Powers and the U2 Spy Plane back in 1959. That is why we use satellites. DUHH!
The Russians did not shoot down the Powers U2. There was a fuel problem, which forced Powers to descend down to an altitude where Russian Migs were able to force a landing. The Russians had reasons to claim they shot the plane down, but they did not actually do so.
Ukraina ja totuuden totesi, että kielsi lentää alle 30 000 : n ja edellä Moreno tämä outo ilmoitus, koska ennen se oli hit an-26 alhaiset, ja he eivät lentää. Näin ollen se oli suora uhka ampua alas Boeing 777. Yleensä siellä on jotain, ole puhdas.
This would be consistent with the theory that the separatists do not have any Buk missiles.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrhEzecCdTI
And building on the points raised in your article, surely this would be an opportune time for respectable mainstream media with specialist foreign affairs journalists to revisit why this conflict started in the first place, and why the US has a stake in it – that is, the destabilization driven by US placement of missile defense shield close to Russia, and active US interference in sovereign democracies.
Hello, it may seem funny, but I noticed the resemblance. With the movie “Star wars” Empire and all that. I think You understood me. From myself I should add, Thank You Americans , thank you very much, for what I understand of us Russians.
Here you can view the press conference by militia leader Borodai wherein he clearly states the militia does not have BUK missiles systems, and if they had, they would have used them before this, obviously. It is also clear that he is angry about the delay in getting international investigators to the site despite the site being barely 4-5 hours from Kiev.
Alexander Borodai 19 Jul press conference about Malaysian #MH17 crash
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/07/alexander-borodai-19-jul-press.html
Also note that the MSM spin today about the militia seizing the bodies reflects his comments in the press conference from yesterday about the intolerable delay given the heat and the decomposing bodies all over the place. None of that is mentioned in the MSM today – it’s all about how the militia is “covering up evidence” – which is bullcrap. They are preserving bodies for the investigators.
Yep, the criticism of the separatists for moving the bodies is utterly idiotic. It’s hitting 80+ degrees Fahrenheit there during the days. The bodies will decompose quickly in that heat. And, that will only make the identification of the dead more difficult.
What would the MSM prefer, that the autopsies be carried out with ladles and a wet vac?
LF
Another thing, it is a prairie region with wild animals. If anything, the rebels were doing anything they could to respect the dead as well as to preserve the evidence under the circumstances when the international commission would not come for some reason.
The reason I frequent this site is due to the subject matter of this article. I have come to believe that the American press is nothing more than a mouth piece for the shadow government. The various media outlets are owned by a small select few. This in itself is a dangerous thing inside a society who believes it is being told the absolute truth. You do realize that many of us who post on this site are the minority opinion when it comes to Ukraine among other issues of our day. The reason we see things differently is because we all work hard at getting our news we process. I mean it’s to simple to just suck up what you will hear on talk radio, or cable TV. Our once great respected news agencies have all gone to become propaganda mills for the power elite. If I had my wishes, I would take the money out of politics, and break down the news media into small little independent news outlets. Truth be told!
I was thinking along similar lines. In any case in a pluralistic society we should be exposed to a plurality of views.
“I was thinking along similar lines.”
Thaddeus, now that could be dangerous. You know, when two people have the same thought that is a partnership. When three people think alike then we have a revolution. Thanks, for your reply. Onward, and upward with the truth! Have a nice day…J.T.
The chorus of trained seals masquerading as journalists began barking in unison within minutes after the tragedy: “Putin did it, Putin did it”! Even partisan journalists who generally try to spin the notion that they represent a measured, progressive point of view have taken irrational positions. For example, Earl Ofari Hutchinson made this bizarre statement: “The monstrous downing of a Malaysian jet liner apparently by Russian backed separatists in the Ukraine did something that few thought could happen. It has gotten GOP leaders momentarily to agree with President Obama when he pointed the finger squarely at Russia for the horrific attack.” Then, he completely abandons any sense of restraint whatsoever and claims that, “The GOP will find a way to blame it on Obama”.
Parubiy is the “reliable source” our media seems to be courting. The three year old boy who was crucified by Parubiy’s Nazi myrmidons never made the Western mainstream media. They made his mother watch them do it, then murdered her too. Apparently, these are the sources we trust.
Any exculpatory evidence will be suppressed, any equivocal evidence will be twisted to blame Putin, and any physical evidence will have been “looted by the terrorists”. Meanwhile, the black boxes, whose pings are difficult to locate in 10,000 feet of water, remain elusive on dry land. Doesn’t that raise any eyebrows? Pretending there is any mystery here ignores the fact that we’re dealing with Nazis. The cacophony of media consensus literally within minutes of the event indicates coordination. THAT, in turn, requires premeditation.
Hutchinson is biased, but he isn’t stupid. His feckless outburst reveals, more than anything else, the nagging question that the wee, small voice continues to ask. It’s his conscience, and it’s troubling him. I think he knows where the blame really lies.
Remarkable quote:
“‘We do believe they were trying to move back into Russia at least three Buk [missile launch] systems,’ the official said. U.S. intelligence was ‘starting to get indications … a little more than a week ago’ that the Russian launchers had been moved into Ukraine, said the official†whose identity was withheld by the Post so the official would discuss intelligence matters.
Let’s pretend for a minute one belives the assertion that “U.S. intelligence was ‘starting to get indications … a little more than a week ago’ that the Russian launchers had been moved into Ukraine.”
If one takes that at face value it begs the question why the affected high-altitude airspace there wasn’t closed then, or at least a warning given by US authorities.
Doesn’t the U.S. intelligence supposedly exist to keep harm away from people, like U.S. passengers travelling in an airliner?
Good point.
Wrong point. Airline companies were already warned in April of dangers of this area.
John
No. Not there.
See TIME: U.S. Warned Of Unsafe Airspace Over Crimea, But Not Where MH17 Crashed
http://time.com/3001874/ukraine-crash-faa-crimea-airspace/
Answer: No!
WSJ actually asked that question. Allegedly, Ukie authorities knew about it for three days ahead of MH17 and did nothing: http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-knew-of-separatists-air-defense-capabilities-say-officials-1405781508
I don’t think the journalism is “sloppy”, it is deliberate. The headlines, the biased narrative, even the repeated phrase “Russian-made” – it all represents a deliberate effort to seize advantage of the situation and press toward a favourable outcome. Truth be damned.
The Maidan sniper incident in February was the difference maker in both achieving the coup and justifying it. It has since been established (and conceded by the Kiev regime) that most if not all the shots came from a building entirely in control of the Right Sector militia. And that is where the story ends, as the lead Ukraine investigator suggested in a May press conference that the identities of the snipers will never be known and will always remain a mystery, i.e. if the event cannot be pinned on the designated culprit, then the investigation is over. If the plane shoot-down is also a false flag, then a similar tactic of muddying the waters will be employed, and may already be underway with the delays of investigators to the crash site. The idea will be to maintain ambiguity, prevent conclusions, and continue the propaganda barrage for as long as it remains viable.
Yes, most of the journalism is deliberate, though there is a spectrum there, too, from the outright CIA covert operative, to the U.S.-first true believer, to the mercenary cynic who knows he or she risks career advancement if they buck the governmental line.
I am grateful, though, to Robert Parry and those few others who are brave enough to stand against the stiff winds of a bellicose government bent on making a new Cold War.
I don’t think that war can be stopped now; those who rule America are dead-set on expanding empire. But we need to forestall hot war long enough for the population to catch up politically on what’s really happening and raise new parties and institutions capable of defeating the imperial militarists and their backers.
Я рад что многие американцы могут правильно оценить Ñитуацию, но ваш конгреÑÑ Ñ…Ð¾Ñ‡ÐµÑ‚ войны. Ðто конгреÑÑ USA и Порошенко провели операцию по уничтожению боинга 777. РоÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¼Ð¸Ñ€Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¸ развивающаÑÑÑ Ñтрана, нам не нужны войны.
I am from Russia and I am glad that there are people who don’t blame our country in every possible sin. I would also want to add to this article that in 2001 Ukranian military forces shot down Russian Tu-154. Officially Ukrain never recognized that but back than the Ukranian president said that even if it was shot down by a Ukranian rocket it is not a world’s disaster. There are catastrophes of a much higher value. It clearly was a mistake in 2001. But according to the experts conclusions it happened due to the fact that the rockets had been too old and should not have been used. But it seems that since then Ukrain has never renewd their missile systems so if it is true then they still use the rockets which were too old even in 2001.
Заберите Ñвоих боевиков Ñ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹ и вÑе те танки, Грады и Буки, что вы навезли к нам – и можете начинать раÑÑказывать про “мирную раÑÑею”. Уже вам, помимо молдован и грузин – еще и украинцы ни на грош не верÑÑ‚. Ибо вы агреÑÑивные и лживые ÑоÑеди, которые вредÑÑ‚ вÑем, кому могут.
Дай хоть одно доказательÑтво нашей вины. Бородатый дÑдька из фейÑбука не аргумент.
You are welcome many of us Americans agree with you. We don’t want war either.
……………………
Ð’Ñ‹ можете многие из Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð°Ð¼ÐµÑ€Ð¸ÐºÐ°Ð½Ñ†Ñ‹ Ñ Ð²Ð°Ð¼Ð¸ ÑоглаÑен. Мы не хотим войны либо.
Vy mozhete mnogiye iz nas amerikantsy s vami soglasen. My ne khotim voyny libo.
Рчто по вашему делает РоÑÑÐ¸Ñ ÑейÑÐ°Ñ Ð² Украине? Ðе поÑтавлÑет вооружение ÑепаратиÑтам? Ðе аннекÑировала Крым? Хватит лгать!!!
I am russian. As I read the article and many comments posted by you guys – americans, australians etc. I received a great hope that these slaves of devil or whoever they are, they won’t be able to accomplish their horrible aims. People still can think and figure out who indeed benefits out of the tragedy. It’s not Russia. I live in Rostov, located 100mi from the war, believe me, we have other plans than the world war 3. Hope, so do you, so share your opinion with people in the west who believes major medias propaganda against Russia. Respect to you and the author!
на юго-воÑтоке Украины убивают мирных людей. Ðту акцию поддерживает ÐмериканÑкое правительÑтво. Мы, руÑÑкие, очень хотим жить мирно.
in the South-East of Ukraine kill innocent people. This action is supported by the American government. We, Russians, are very want to live peacefully.
Agree.
The core of this is the attempt by the neocons to disrail two area’s of US/Russia cooperation:
The Syrian debacle and the Iranian non-nuclear weapon program.
Just as the world resoundingly said no to the US going to war with Iran , and stifled it long enough for the truth of chemical weapons to come out, so too will we do the same for a war against Russia. It is easy to see which said has the most to gain and least to loose, for America to purge itself from its addiction to war it must first be denied the thing in which it is addicted. It would be no trouble to roll the military industrial complex into a Aerospace and space industrial complex that gives far more gain.