The embattled Ukraine president, believing his own propaganda, was dressed down before the cameras in the Oval Office Friday by a fed-up president and vice president of the United States, reports Joe Lauria.
By Joe Lauria
Special to Consortium News
Volodymyr Zelensky has become accustomed to being feted in Western cities as the second-coming of Churchill, appearing before awards ceremonies, film festivals, the New York Stock Exchange and various national parliaments, (though the Academy Awards twice turned him down.)
All that came crashing down on him Friday in the 102-foot circumferenced, 816 sq. foot office at the epicenter of still the most powerful nation on earth. He was met by a buzzsaw of resistance from the president and vice president of the United States. Zelensky was dressed down, even about his dress, being told he was ungrateful, disrespectful, had lost to Russia and was risking “World War III.”
It’s still hard to register that a factual alternative to the West’s propaganda story on Ukraine has largely been accepted by President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance in a dramatic reversal from the office’s last occupant.
While there are members of Trump’s national security team, such as Secretary of State Marco Rubio and National Security Advisor Michael Waltz, who previously swallowed whole the fantasy of Russia’s “unprovoked” invasion of an “innocent” Ukraine, there were two officials who during Trump’s campaign likely filled him in on the facts.
One was Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who in numerous speeches when he ran his own campaign for president, displayed an intimate knowledge of the causes of the Ukraine war — NATO expansion, the 2014 U.S. backed coup in Kiev, the beginning of the war by Ukraine against coup resistors in Eastern Ukraine and the U.S. rejection of Russian diplomacy to avoid war.
The other was Tulsi Gabbard, who likewise made clear her profound understanding of the realities of the war. Kennedy is out of the sphere of foreign policy as health and human resources secretary, but Gabbard gives the presidential intelligence brief to Trump everyday at 11:15 am.
No doubt she prepped him for Zelensky’s now infamous Oval Office encounter on Friday.
Zelenksy’s Humiliation
Trump humiliated Zelensky from the moment he greeted him at the front door of the White House. Trump sarcastically remarked, “Oh, you’re all dressed up,” referring to Zelenksy, who wore a black T-shirt with Ukraine’s trident symbol in the guise of a military uniform.
The blogger known as Simplicius the Thinker weighed in on the significance of Zelensky’s humiliation over his attire after a reporter later asked him if he even owns a suit.
“This exchange highlights precisely the main takeaway—which is that the artificially constructed image of Zelensky is no longer useful, and has been tossed away like a used rag. All the false bravado and olive drab khakis—it all served a purpose for the past three years, with Zelensky built up like some kind of John Rambo-Churchill; the ‘sacred’ attire would have never been questioned before, because it represented the theater of it all, the carefully stage-managed production. Now that the play has run its course, failing to turn a profit, the ‘act’ has grown old and we’re immediately allowed a view under the costume.”
The meeting began calmly enough with Trump praising Ukraine’s “very brave fighters.” Trump said:
“So I give tremendous credit to your generals and your soldiers and yourself in the sense that, it’s been very hard fighting, very tough fighting, great fighters. And, you have to be very proud of them. That’s terrible. But now we want to get it over with. It’s enough.”
Trump said he had spoken to Russian President Vladimir Putin “and we’re going to try to bring this to a close. It’s something that you want and that he wants. We have to negotiate a deal.” Zelensky widened his eyes at “something that you want.”
“We’ve started the confines of a deal and I think something can happen,” Trump said. “I will say, until we came along, the Biden administration didn’t speak to Russia whatsoever. They didn’t speak to anybody. They just allowed this to continue.”
Trump said: “It’s a somewhat of an exciting moment, but the really exciting moment is when … they stop the shooting or we end up with the deal, and I think we’re fairly close to getting that.”
Zelensky said he counted on Trump “to stop Putin.” He said “enough with the war” should have been said at the beginning because “he [Putin] is a killer and a terrorist.” Zelenksy, acting as if he was unaware of the radical change in U.S. policy under Trump, said, “I hope together we can stop him of course with no compromises of our territory with a killer.”
Zelenksy then made a plea for U.S. air defense systems, “the best in the world,” at which Trump scrunched his face. Zelensky made a pitch for U.S. participation with Britain and France on a peacekeeping force after a ceasefire, which Russia has rejected and which Trump said the U.S. would not take part in.
“Everyone is talking about security, but we have to make a deal first,” Trump said, adding that too many soldiers on both sides were still dying.
When Trump decried both sides’ deaths, Zelensky interjected, “They came to our territory.”
Asked before the Oval Office fireworks erupted whether he would continue sending military aid to Ukraine, Trump said, “We are going to send arms, sure. Hopefully I won’t have to send very much because hopefully we will have it finished quickly. We are not looking forward to sending a lot of arms.”
A reporter asked Zelensky whether he considers the U.S. to be on his side. “I think that the United States is on our side from the very beginning of the occupation and I think President Trump is on our side and I’m sure the United States will not stop support.”
By the end of the hour-long meeting, that certainty changed. Zelensky said the important question was whether the U.S. and its allies can get Russia to withdraw from Ukraine.
Trump said no deal was possible without compromises. “He’s going to have to make compromises but hopefully not as big as some people think he will have to make. That’s all we can do. I’m here as a mediator between two parties that have been very hostile, to put it mildly. This has been a vicious war.”
“This could lead to a third world war,” Trump went on. “This was headed in the wrong direction. If we didn’t win this election … this could have very well ended up in a third world war.” [See: On Way Out, Reckless Biden Allows Deep Russia Strikes]
Zelensky claimed Putin broke ceasefires 25 times since 2014, during the period of the Minsk accords designed to end the Ukrainian civil war. “He broke his signature,” Zelensky said.
“But he never broke to me,” Trump said.
Zelenksy contradicted Trump. “Since 2016 you’ve been the president.”
Zelensky and Trump square off in Oval Office. (C-Span screenshot)
What Zelensky failed to mention is that Angela Merkel, former French President Francois Hollande and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko all admitted they never took the Minsk accords seriously and strung Russia along to buy time for NATO to arm and train Ukraine.
Trump said more than once that he didn’t want to talk about security guarantees until there was a peace settlement. “That’s two percent of the problem,” Trump said. The tension between the two men starting building as Zelensky again contradicted him saying there could be no ceasefire without a security guarantee.
“Putin’s soldiers are afraid of our soldiers when we are strong enough,” Zelensky said. “We will never accept just a ceasefire.” He then said the Europeans would need a U.S. backstop when they deploy to Ukraine to secure a ceasefire.
“Putin will never stop,” Zelensky went on. “He hates Ukrainians. He thinks we are not a nation. He wants to destroy us. Putin began this war. He has to pay.” Ukraine can use $300 billion in frozen Russia assets in Europe, he said.
“It’s wonderful to talk badly about someone else,” Trump said in relation to what Zelensky said about Putin. “But I’m in the middle. I’m on both sides. I want to see this end. If we can’t solve it, they are going to have to fight it out and who knows what’s going to happen.”
A ‘Threat’ to Europe
Zelensky then began pushing the patently bogus and dangerous idea that Ukraine is the line of defense for Europe and even the United States from Russian aggression.
The overarching U.S.-led aggression against Russia, which led to this conflict, is wiped away with this fairytale, leaving the insidious and ridiculous projection that Russia wants to conquer the world. Western leaders ridicule Russia for taking three years to seize only Donbass and yet say Russia will be at the gates of Paris by summer.
“Like the president said, you have big, nice ocean between us, but if we will not stay, Russia will go further to Baltics and to Poland,” Zelensky said. “It’s understandable to them because they have been the U.S.S.R. … and Putin wants to bring them back to his empire.”
“It’s a fact,” Zelensky lied, “and when he will go there, if we will not stay, you will fight. American soldiers. It doesn’t matter you have ocean or not, your soldiers will fight.”
It’s impossible to know whether Zelensky is stupid enough to believe such rubbish, or smart and cynical enough to utter what he knows are baseless falsehoods to dupe Western publics into continuing to support military aid to his country to keep fighting a lost cause.
Even if this were Putin’s grand design, and there is zero indication it is, he does not have the military capability to carry it out. He has sought to avoid the prospect of attacking a NATO nation — which the Baltics and Poland are — triggering an Article 5 response and possible world and nuclear war.
Though Zelensky began this desperate, scaremongering lecture of the U.S. president in the Oval Office, Trump already made clear a couple of weeks ago that he does not buy the B.S. story of Putin threatening the entire Western world.
What people like Zelenksy who push this nonsense fail to mention is that there’s been no coup in the Baltics with the government then attacking Russian speaking enclaves in their countries, giving no reason for Russia to intervene. Zelensky and his backers completely remove the history preceding Russia’s intervention into Ukraine, portraying Putin simply as a bloodthirsty madman bent on world conquest — a veritable villain out of a James Bond movie.
Ignoring this, Trump then pressed on with the need for a peace deal. He spoke of many destroyed Ukrainian cities. Zelensky, rose the temperature between them by interrupting him.
“No, no, no Mr. President you have to come and to look. We have very good cities. Yes a lot of things have been destroyed but mostly cities alive. And people work. And children go to school. .. Ukrainian is fighting and it lives.”
Zelensky then indirectly accused Trump of being duped by Russian disinformation. “Maybe it is Putin who is sharing that he has destroyed us,” he said.
“He has lost 700,000 soldiers,” Zelensky lied.
The fiercely anti-Putin Pussy Riot, in partnership with the fiercely anti-Putin BBC Russia service, runs a project to keep track of Russian war casualties and their figure of Russia’s war dead stands at 95,000.
If Russia had lost 750,000 men as Zelensky claims, how has it conquered and held so much territory?
It is Zelensky who is running out of men, being forced by the Biden administration to lower the recruiting age to 18 to send even younger men to the front to die.
Asked about Putin, Trump said he’d known him a long time. “He had to suffer through the Russia hoax, you know, Russia, Russia, Russia. It was all Biden. It was nothing to do with him,” Trump said.
Later he added: “Putin respects me. Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. He had to go through that. And we didn’t end up in a war. He was accused of all that stuff and he had nothing to do with it.”
Democrats have themselves to blame, in other words, for making them both the targets of their operation and perhaps driving them closer together. That of course is not a bad thing if it leads to a resolution of the war and cooperation between the two largest nuclear weapons powers.
“All I’ve done my whole life is make deals and I’m in the middle of a real mess,” Trump said. “And it’s a dangerous one.”
Asked about being too aligned with Putin, Trump said, “I’m not aligned with Putin. I’m not aligned with anybody. I’m aligned with the United States of America and for the good of the world. I’m aligned with the world. And I want to get this thing over with.”
Pointing to Zelensky, he said: “Look at the hatred he’s got for Putin. It’s very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hate. The other side isn’t exactly in love with him either.”
Enter Vance
Vance in the Oval Office with Zelensky. (C-Span screenshot)
The vice president then entered the fray. Like Trump, Vance failed to give historical context to the conflict. It would be easy for them politically, because they could blame a Democrat, Barack Obama, for letting this “mess” happen.
The Obama administration was in power when the U.S. backed the 2014 coup that toppled the democratically elected Ukrainian president. It was the Obama administration that greenlighted the coup government starting the war that still rages today by attacking the Russian-speaking Donbass region, which defended its democratic rights by rejecting the coup.
It was the Obama, Trump and Biden administrations, as well as Germany and France, that did not press Ukraine to abide by the Minsk accords. Kennedy and Gabbard know this history in great detail and no doubt have shared it with Trump and Vance.
For example, Gabbard said this on the day before Russia’s intervention into the war, Feb. 23, 2022:
“This war and suffering could have easily been avoided if Biden Admin/NATO had simply acknowledged Russia’s legitimate security concerns regarding Ukraine’s becoming a member of NATO, which would mean US/NATO forces right on Russia’s border.”
Gabbard showed that she knows about the U.S.-backed coup in Ukraine, saying on her podcast, Oct. 18, 2022:
“This regime-change war that the United States and NATO are waging via their proxy in Ukraine didn’t begin when Putin invaded Ukraine. They had their eyes set on this objective long before that.”
But Vance started the history with blaming Joe Biden, saying he was all talk and no action and had let Russia invade. Trump on the other hand was “engaging in diplomacy. That’s what President Trump is doing.”
By not knowing the history Trump and Vance left the door open for Zelensky to peddle his fake version of the history’s conflict in fractured English:
“Big parts of Ukraine, parts of East and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years, I’m not speaking about just Biden, but … President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, and now President Trump, and God bless, now President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took, he killed people, you know on the contact line —“
Here Trump interrupted, “2015.”
“2014,” said Zelensky.
“Oh, 2014,” said a befuddled Trump, as if this was the first time he was hearing about any of this. “I was not here.” he said.
“During 2014 to 2022 the situation was the same,” Zelensky continued. “People are been dying on the contact line [separating the breakaway Donbass regions with the rest of Ukraine.]
“Nobody stopped him,” he said, completely omitting that Ukraine had begun the war with military attacks against the breakaway regions in April 2014 in an attempt not “to stop him,” but to stop the ethnic Russians from seceding from Ukraine. Here Zelensky engages in the mythmaking of reducing a complex military conflict by two sides to the behavior of just one man.
Zelensky said he signed “the deal” in 2019 with Putin, Merkel and Macron, “ceasefire, ceasefire” and “all of them told me that he would never go … and after that he broken the ceasefire. He killed our people. We signed exchange of prisoners, but he didn’t do it.”
(But according to Zelensky’s former chief of staff, Andriy Bohdan, Zelensky is lying because Ukraine “screwed” Putin by not keeping its end of the 2019 deal with Russia.)
“What kind of diplomacy, J.D. are you speaking about?” Zelensky asked.
“I’m talking about the kind of diplomacy that is going to end the destruction of your country,” Vance replied.
Vance then snapped, cutting off Zelensky:
“Mr. President, Mr. president, with respect, I think it’s disrespectful for you to come to the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.”
“Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say, what problems we have?” Zelensky responded as if a vice president with access to classified U.S. information cannot learn about the military and political situation of a country without having visited it.
“Come once,” Zelensky said,
His voice rising, Vance said:
“I know that what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour. Mr. President. Do you disagree that you’ve had problems like bringing people into your military? And do you think that it’s respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?”
Here the meeting starts going off the rails.
Zelensky: “During the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don’t feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless you.”
“You don’t know that,” Trump interjected. “You don’t know that. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel. We are trying to solve a problem.”
“I’m not trying –” Zelensky began.
“You are in no position to dictate what we are going to feel,” snapped Trump. “We’re going to feel very good, very strong. You’re right now not in a very good position. You’ve allowed yourselves to be in a very bad position.”
Here Trump is rejecting Zelensky’s fear mongering and attempted blackmail that if the U.S. doesn’t accede to his demands Russia will attack the U.S.
This is the same kind of insanity we heard from the likes of Congressman Adam Schiff during Trump’s 2019 impeachment (for a phone call with Zelensky), when he said, “We have to fight the Russians over there [in Ukraine] so we don’t have to fight them over here [in America].”
Trump told Zelensky that “you don’t have the cards right now. With us you start having cards.”
“I’m not playing cards, I’m very serious Mr, President,” Zelensky said, not understanding the metaphor.
“You’re playing cards,” Trump insisted. “You’re gambling with the lives of millions of people. You’re gambling with World War Three.”
And of course Zelensky has been, acting, with the Biden administration, as if saving his country was worth risking a nuclear holocaust.
“What you are doing is disrespectful to the country, this country that backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have,” said Trump.
After Vance angrily said Zelensky had been ungrateful for the help the U.S. has given him, Zelensky said, “Please if you think that by speaking loudly you can…”
“He’s not speaking loudly,” Trump said, “Your country is in big trouble. No, no, no, you’ve done a lot of talking.”
“Your country is in big trouble,” Trump said.
“I know,” Zelensky replied.
“You’re not winning this,” Trump said.
Zelensky’s mouth started opening to say, “I know,” but he stopped.
“You have a damned good chance of coming out okay because of us,” Trump said.
Zelensky, Trump and Vance. (C-Span screenshot)
When Zelensky tried to say Ukraine has been alone from the start of the war, Trump cut him off: “You haven’t been alone because this stupid president gave you $350 billion. We gave you military equipment. You and you men are brave, but they have to use our military money. If you didn’t have our military equipment this war would have been over in two weeks.”
“It’s gonna be very hard to do business like this,” Trump said.
After Vance said the argument that broke out should not have happened in front of the American media, Trump said: “I think it’s good for the American people to see what’s going on. I think it’s very important. That’s why I kept this going so long.”
He told Zelensky: “If you can get a ceasefire now I’d take it because then the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed.”
The public row ended with Trump saying it was “great television.” A lunch, signing ceremony on a minerals deal and a press conference was cancelled and Zelensky left the White House.
Horrified Reactions
The reactions of mainstream politicians and media was predictable.
Bernie Sanders. wrote on X: “Trump criticizes Zelenskyy, the leader of a democratic country who is courageously fighting Russian imperialism, while he aligns himself with Putin, the dictator who started the bloodiest European war in 80 years. Sorry, President Trump. We believe in democracy, not authoritarianism.”
Schiff wrote: “There was only one person acting presidential in the Oval Office today: Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He stood up to bullies in a Kremlin-style shakedown. What will it take to awaken the conscience of the country after such a shameful display?”
Former EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Josep Borrell wrote on X: “Trump and Vance put on a shameful show. I am ashamed of this behavior. The United States deserves something better. The free world must support Ukraine. I was and remain with Zelensky.”
Johann David Wadepool, deputy leader of the newly elected CDU party in Germany, wrote: “How can you stab the president of an occupied country in the back like that? Free Europe will not betray Ukraine.”
A good deal of work by the media is trying to find out what is said in frank, closed door conversations between leaders. Here it was all out in the open, incredible transparency that most journalists would die for, but instead we hear petty criticisms of Trump in the media for his frank behavior in front of the cameras.
What Will it Mean
One can assume that the U.S. will cut Zelensky loose if he does not agree to America’s terms to end the war. It might just be a matter of time before arms shipments will end and Zelensky will be solely dependent on Europe.
That Zelensky and the Europeans do not yet accept that the war is lost and they should cut the best deal possible is something to behold.
It can only get worse for Ukraine from here going forward. Russia may aim to take even more territory, including Odessa, about which Trump said he did not want to talk.
Zelensky will look back on this Oval Office meeting as yet another blown opportunity, like walking away from the March 2022 Istanbul deal, to end the suffering of his people.
It is suffering brought about by the 2014 coup and Kiev’s launching of a war, which it called an “anti-terror” operation against Ukrainian citizens who wanted their vote to count, that has now lead to this.
Joe Lauria is editor-in-chief of Consortium News and a former U.N. correspondent for The Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, and other newspapers, including The Montreal Gazette, the London Daily Mail and The Star of Johannesburg. He was an investigative reporter for the Sunday Times of London, a financial reporter for Bloomberg News and began his professional work as a 19-year old stringer for The New York Times. He is the author of two books, A Political Odyssey, with Sen. Mike Gravel, foreword by Daniel Ellsberg; and How I Lost By Hillary Clinton, foreword by Julian Assange.
Thank you Joe for writing a fair and accurate article, and for not resorting to either Trump derangement syndrome or Putin bashing. It is a rare thing to read something so objective and fair.
We have seen this production before – an earlier generation of American Imperialists used an internal governance dispute in Afghanistan to weaken the USSR; the present generation is using an internal governance dispute in the Ukraine to weaken the Russian Federation –
Seems that what we have here is are different objectives – for Trump et al, stopping the bullets, ending the fighting now by agreeing to the status quo (Donbas and Crimea out of Ukraine and into Russia) and for Zelensky et al, in the fullness of time, ending the fighting by reestablishing the status ante (expelling Russia from the Donbas and Crimea) –
it is rare that a nation can achieve through negotiations to end a war what it did not achieve in the war –
this situation is analogous to WWI – instead of ending in 1915 (because of the stalemate brought on by trench warfare) the combatants kept fighting for the day they would march through Berlin/Paris
Next meeting held in the Presidential library .
Big sign spelt with stacks of of books “whispers only” , ” The media are reading scripts ”
Otherwise go home and watch TV , copies 10 cents each .
Internet access with an account & password , no playing cards .
Donatiins are free .
Thank you Joe Lauria! Below is my comment about your article that I submitted to the NYTimes this morning. So far they have not accepted it. Am not surprised. Will let you know if that changes. I copied it below
Cookie
CaliforniaPending Approval
the Times : Trump’s blowup….oh, not Zelensky’s blowup. For a more comprehensive journalist view I suggest readers look at Joe Lauria of Consortium News. But I doubt my view will be allowed to appear.
Perhaps human (spiritual) evolution is accelerating at this profoundly historical moment. The surest sign of growing spiritual maturity will present itself when the sincerest expressions of compassion and empathy for our fellow suffering human beings is equal, consistent, – and not based solely on the sufferers’ skin color.
Peace.
Would be great to end this war (and a tragedy that never should have happened in the 1st place). That said, if you are looking for compassion or empathy from trump/Musk, or even Putin you likely barking up the wrong tree-the conduct of Putin/Russia in Chechnya would suggest he’s not the nicest guy. Also, trump/Musk are fairly transparent racists so no help from them. Getting rid of daylight savings time in the US may prove to be trump/Musk’s most useful accomplishment given that they are likely to attack other countries and/or support proxy wars elsewhere. Sadly, I believe our only chance for the kind of human evolution you are hoping for will come after a serious world wide collapse of capitalism, likely caused by a massive die off of humans
What was also telling was the face the Ukrainian ambassador, Oksana Markarov.
The whole thing was quite refreshing, to be honest.
Not the masks put by officials where everything is shown as rosy but the true emotions and facial expressions during an honest debate.
Agree with you that the whole incident was “refreshing”. Sometimes, it’s just better to be brutally honest, and discussing continuation of this war was one of those times because of the large numbers of lives being destroyed daily. I think that Zelinsky will go into the history books as the biggest sucker of the 21st century. His ” friends ” got to provide the cash and weapons. Zelinsky had to provide the blood and guts.
I would say in this Ukraine war the overwhelming facts show that the US has been the bad guy and Russia has been the good guy. The American people are not bad, but have been swindled by an “oligarchy of unbridled greed”, as Jimmy Carter called it. Because this oligarchy bought up all the corporate media and much of Congress, the American public has been drenched in anti-Putin propaganda for years (since Putin ended these oligarchs’ looting of Russia). Now the facts must be introduced to the public, in digestible steps.
In addition to the truth about the Ukraine war, laid out well in this article, the public also needs to learn the truth about the American political establishment’s crimes to create and maintain this war. That would include the Russiagate disinformation operation mentioned by President Trump. One may not care for Trump’s style, but the facts (and the crimes) have been established.
Yes Virginia, there is a globalist Deep State.
Pick a year, but sometime in the last 25 years, propaganda levels coming out of Washington DC got near comparable to that coming out of Moscow and Beijing. I think that the lies told by Bush Jr., Cheney, and Powell in 2003 are a good reference point.
go back to the late 1940’s/1950’s in the US. there are some interesting videos on youtube with extraordinary propaganda. (crusade for freedom with ronald reagan is one)
First, there are no black-and-white ‘good guys’ in this war. There are just different shades of gray bad guys. Everyone involved is awful, except for the poor citizens of Ukraine who had no say in the matter.
But if I had to pick one as the worst, it is definitely Russia. Yes, the USA/NATO provoked Russia with their expansion and fomenting the 2014 coup, and Ukraine has basically been a money-laundering piggy-bank for shady western capitalists for decades and Zelensky appears willing to sacrifice it’s entire population rather than accept the reality that they are screwed and have no path to victory, but at the end of the day, it was Russia who was the first to roll tanks and escalate the situation into a full-scale WWI style abattoir. That’s objectively the worst thing that has happened.
You’re omitting the bloody fighting of Ukraine’s ‘Anti Terror Operation’ against the coup resistors of Donbas beginning 2014. And you’re ignoring the 2021 decree by Zelensky that the ‘problem’ with Donbas and Crimea shall be resolved militarily, not along the lines of the Minsk Agreements. So what do you think would have happened if Russia had not intervened after Ukraine began intensifying shelling Donbas starting 16 Feb 2022…?
And what’s more – Russia immediately offered negotiatons on Feb 25th. The intention obviously was to stop a war from evolving, not to start it.
“But if I had to pick one as the worst, it is definitely Russia.”
You don’t know what’s been going on in the Donbass since 2014, do you? It’s been extensively reported, though not by the MSM. We have extended family connections in that part of the world: we’re only too well-aware of the awfulness of it. The Kiev régime and its neo-nazi allies must wear the blame.
The population of the Donbass – and of the entire eastern part of the Ukraine – is ethnically Russian. That’s how we come to have extended family there and in Russia itself. In 1922, Lenin shifted the admin. boundaries, such that an entire swathe of country formerly Russian became Ukrainian. The Crimea was gifted by Krushchev to the Ukraine in 1954. I’d add that, prior to 2014, the Crimea had had two previous attempts since independence to decamp from the Ukraine. In 2014, that area made good its escape.
I’m assuming that you don’t think people should be persecuted because they’re Russian and speak Russian? If you do, it’d be good to hear your arguments in justification.
Joe-
What seems to be missed by many posters here is the seismic change in US foreign policy that is occuring right before our eyes.
As this site has been saying for years, the empires hegemony is ending.
The transparency displayed, not only in the exchange in the oval office, but also in Vance’s speech in Munich, is difficult for even the most ardent readers of this site to understand.
Accepting that realpolitik and the re-emergence of a multipolar world is now the new norm should be embraced by folks here and not clouded by the veil of the neo-con, rules based order, full spectrum dominance, lie that has been hanging over us for so long.
Things have changed, a revolution has occured, and it’s only been 6 weeks.
I also do think that Trump and Vance are well aware of all the intiracies of the conflict in Ukraine.
By sticking to the message of ending the carnage, they new what they were doing.
Everyone knows there would never be a rare earth deal, there aren’t any that are extractable in regions currently owned by Ukraine. It was only a way to end this war while showing some benefit.
There are hower many in Russia.
Doing business with Russia and pulling them out of a close alliance with China makes the most sense from a geo political perspective.
As we pivot to a multipolar world and new spheres of influence, look for things to harken back to the days before Wolfiwitz and Cheney thought we could rule the world forever.
I would guess that one of the goals in all this is the ending of NATO to allow the US to enact a Monroe doctrine for this century, and that Greenland and quite possibly Canada are the real short term goals.
That and a carrot as opposed to stick continuation of long-term US foreign policy to facilitate in roads into Russia and central Asia; to bring them into our sphere as we become locked in a battle with China for control of resources.
Don’t kid yourself, there is no way Russia will end it’s very hard earned alliance with China and choose the US. Russia had been lied to and betrayed for far too long by successive US administrations. The US can not be trusted. However, I have no doubt Russia will be open to good relations with the US while maintaining their close relationship with China. We need to get over this childish schoolyard thinking of “if you’re my friend, you can’t be her friend.” Let’s all be friends!
Typo: ‘which it called an “ant-terror” operation’
Brilliant article.
Trump hardly qualifies as being someone to school another on be another on being respectful.
An excellent survey! Thank you! I particularly liked learning of the influence or Kennedy and Gabbard.
One of Hillary’s bots, escaped from the server farm. Don’t be too dismissive, this would qualify it for being a member of the Democratic National Committee with the rest of the bots. All the bots are of course programmed by the mega-donors, by various means and methods. We saw this when the mega-donors selected the Presidential nominee for the next episode of Bot Farm.
*“Now, the moon is almost hidden. The stars are beginning to hide. The fortune telling lady has even taken all her things inside.” Bob Dylan
“Ladies & Gentlemen,” this is the show, Zelensky’s colossal “Face Plant!” No doubt, Trump, Vance *“they’ve got him in a trance. One hand is tied to the tightrope walker. The other is in his pants.” *“You would not think to look at him; but, he was famous,” just months, ago, for dressing the part, “fighting” the Ukraine v. Russia war, chanting “Four Mo’ Years!” Autographing WMD’s. Shufflin’ along, Zelensky led cheers for Biden’s-Harris’-Waltz’-Sullivan’s-Austin’s, Yellen’s, perpetual, ground war in Ukraine; &, the USCongress agreed, wholeheartedly. Their raison d’etre, “Putin is the aggressor. Putin chose this war. And now he and his country will bear the consequences.” Jo$eph R. Biden, posing as POTUS #46, on February 25, 2022.
February 2025 ends w/a “Shake-Down!” In a heartbeat, DJTrump exposed Zelensky’s mindset, “trying to blow up,” a peace deal. A very public execution thereof! “NOT Good.”
Trump says to “many people’s Hero.” You got “Zero!” Nothing! Basically, “You don’t have the cards.” Yes, you’re playing cards. You lost the war.” (Russia rocks the Queen. Ukraine is the Pawn. U$G wants to Make A Deal)!
Everybody, knows, DJTrump “holds the card that says, “Have mercy on his soul.” NO Doubt, Zelensky “got it!” “DEMOCRACY is two wolves & a lamb voting on what’s for lunch!” (And, Zelensky booked it. London or Bust)!
*“And the only sound that’s left, after the ambulances go,” is Joe Lauria’s Spot On, “Shout-Out!!!”
….. [ A GOOD DEAL] of work by the media is trying to find out what is said in frank, closed door conversations between leaders. Here it was all out in the open, incredible transparency that most journalists would die for, but instead we hear petty criticisms of Trump in the media for his frank behavior in front of the cameras.” Joe Lauria rock’n the whole truth; &, nothin’, but!!!
TY, Joe Lauria, CN, et al. , “Keep It Lit.”
*”Desolation Row,” Bob Dylan
How conveniently the West forgets that it was the US who created conditions to install Zelensky as president – a puppet on America’s strings (anyone care to remember Nuland and co.?) America doesn’t give a fig about democracy or human rights…what it cares about is how to steal from other countries and – as a bonus, knock off Russia. It was Washington who instructed Zelensky NOT to sign the Minsk agreement and then it was UK PM Boris Johnson who flew to Kiev and ordered Zelensky NOT to sign. If only liars would really grow LONG NOSES…
Agreed, Vera. I give the current maladministration no credit for pulling back the curtain on this tragedy only to blame the puppet that is revealed. At best, they are telling half-truths. The US is the impetus behind this sorry state of affairs. Were this administration to apologize to the Ukrainian people for using them as pawns, more goons, in our geopolitical games then I could get behind their “efforts”. As it is, “untelling” lie after lie after lie is not easy; maybe the chaos unleashed by this event will serve to wake up the public to the fact that our governments lie to manufacture consent in pursuit of theft, as you say. However, in our black and white media landscape I am not convinced that details and subtly have a chance. RE: Minsk agreements. You state that they were not signed by Ukraine (Zelensky). I was under the impression that they were signed but the US and Europe chose to not force Ukraine to abide them. Regardless of the details, the Minsk agreements are the biggest indicator of rot in the US empire and media machine. In solidarity…
Petro Poroshenko signed Minsk II for Ukraine. It was before Zelensky’s time though he assumed responsibility to implement it.
Vera Gottlieb…I appreciate your spicy truth telling because it holds the so-called “leadership” to account for their
responsibility – or, perhaps more accuratly, “for their irresponsibility”. The sordidness of USA behavior – international
and domestic – appears to be steadily increasing. And we must name it!
Good to remember that Ze’s trident is the emblem adopted in 1929 by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN and its splinter groups) which carried out atrocities against Russians and Poles in the interwar period and later allied with Nazi Germany. Germany’s Auxiliary Police unit, which took part in the liquidation of the Jewish ghettoes of eastern Europe in 1943-4, was composed primarily of OUN-M militants and was colloquially known as the “Ukrainian self-defense legion.” The unit also took part in the wartime massacre of perhaps as many as 120,000 ethnic Poles living in Volhynia, and was later integrated into the notorious 14th Waffen SS Grenadier Division (1st Galician). Thoroughly suppressed by Soviet authorities after the war, OUN’s ideologues managed with CIA help to overthrow the democratically elected government in Kiev in 2014, to ignite a new reign of terror in eastern Europe.
Well stated my friend. These historical facts aren’t hard to find. That’s the curious part of how brainwashed the general public is through years of narrative brainwashing. It’s rather ironic that western audiences are now far more brainwashed than the current generation of the Russian public. The evidence can be seen if you take the time to actually listen to the Everyman interviews on the streets of Russia as opposed to the US. All thanks to the internet . Be curious for the sake of your sanity.
Joe Lauria, thanks for this I found the articles in Consortium News on Ukraine really enlightening. These are my thought from England’s first colony – Cymru ( the place they call Wales). I wonder if there was another level going on at the White House too – Zelenski, whatever his belief when first elected -I take it is kept in place for his role in soliciting funds for the Ukraine military; of which we know 2 things; they have a passion for killing (especially Russians who they think are lesser mortals) and making themselves rich. At the moment they can get enough canon fodder from their conscripts and mercenaries, plus drone warfare has changed the battle, more is done away from the front line. Trump has already announced he wanted to end the war and had a plan to unlock natural resources instead, normalise relations with Russia – in a way he has shown his hand. The last thing those behind Zelenski would want is Americans or Europeans scrambling all over the country ‘supervising’ ; it would interrupt what they want most, more killing more wealth. USA is threatening to cut this off. They know Trump sees himself as a deal-maker so Zelenski goes along with the deal idea; turns up and wearing clothes to be offensive to Trump’s idea of himself and acts in a generally boorish way. Zelenski was a comedian and actor ,he acts the roles assigned to him to get the response and he has had three years to prove it works with America and Europe. All he has to do is play the part – in British Comedy ‘Mr Bean’ – sniffling, complaining, contradicting, the failure no-one wants to be – in front of the world’s media; to provoke the White House grandees who rather fancy themselves as deal-makers into being offended. Result – no deal – so no Americans coming in to supervise, plus Europeans all outraged because Trump has been so horrible to their favourite ‘hero’ – so they are now falling over one-another to supply cash and arms (half of which will fall off the back of lorries) so the killing/corruption spree can continue – looks to me like it could be job done by Zelenski – or am I over the top??
No you’re not over the top….and Trump was not wrong when he told him straight you’re playing with millions of lives and an end game of WW3.
It makes sense to me.
I watched some body language expert go through the whole 54 minutes as I felt there had to be more to it than the clips being shown everywhere else.
I was surprised how negative Zelensky was from about 4 minutes in. He didn’t appear to want to sign any deal or make any headway with a ceasefire. I was also amazed by Trump staying cool and calm, polite and friendly for about 4omins. Then Vance (who could see all of Zelensky’s body language and odd expressions which Trump mostly couldn’t) felt obliged to defend his President quite firmly and pow! Rapidly downhill ….. as everyone saw.
Zelensky is an actor and his chosen role is that of a martinet, which he plays very well.
Including the broken English.
Our country got him into it, now it’s kicking him to the curb. While putting all the blame on him. That’s what you get when the most evil, violent country on earth offers “help”.
Yep, as the late H. Kissinger remarked…to be a friend of the USofA is fatal! we have witnessed the truth of this live on line..fascinating history reality show! let’s all drink to the death of a snow sniffing clown! It is curtains for the neocon wet dream Ukraine proxy weakening Russia project…I believe is what could be witnessed..!?
Thank you for this great analysis, mr. Lauria. By the way, could it be that this drama in the Oval Office was Zelensky’s starting act in the Ukrainian presidential campaign? If I remember well, there were rumors that these elections would take place in late October. Judging from the reactions in Ukraine, Zelensky’s popularity wil have increased considerably after his visit in the White House.
Zelensky had the trump card – and he threw it away.
Thank you for this great analysis, mr. Lauria.
I wonder what Zelensky felt about being assaulted by a felon.
That’s what you take away from this? What a sad, uncomprehending little comment…
Perhaps, JayBee, the comment was aimed at reminding us readers that the President uncouthness (ridicule, pomposity, insults, condescension, puffed up bullying, inability to hold the tension of opposition without acting act, impulsivity) displays
an aspect of “criminal” behavior that Zalensky ought to have anticipated were he conscious of the terrain he already was in and was getting into. But that would have demanded a person with the maturity of no longer projecting “father” on his benefactor.
What if all this….was a show?Mediocre actors….just follow scripts….
Scepticism is never the wrong starting point. Not even sure, if it was the US/Obama government neoliberalcons that started all of this. We know, that there are plenty of countries out there, that harbour hardcore Bandera ideologues within their establishment class, and – I can only guess – pure hatred for Russia. And it feels like, after Zelenski’s recent (first public) handshake with the British monarch (Charles, the king that looks like Wallace, friend of Gromit), we got a glimpse at yet a deeper layer of this whole sh*tshow. Now all major EU muppets rally ’round the British flag, like the Brexit never happened, while the smaller EU muppets are beginning to understand the inevitabilities, that came with pledging their allegiance to a German led Brussels commission, that never ever strayed from any narratives spread by his majesty’s BBC. The spotlights have to turn to the UK much, MUCH more. Their swamp smells extremely bad.. ancient bad!
This was a very helpful piece by Joe Laria. I had previously missed what happened at the beginning of this argument. IT seems clear to me that Zelensky, like most of the West Europeans, does not want peace. He seems delusional, apparently thinking Ukraine will somehow recover the Donbass and Crimea, to boot. Ukraine seems, in fact, in danger of a total collapse of their front lines. Bernie Sanders knows not his ass from a hole in the ground about Ukraine, unfortunately. I have respect for him otherwise, but his statement just shows how the Democrats in general have been taken in by the anti-Russian propaganda. Hard to deal with. Schiff has done very underhanded things, hiding the information about the DNC and its non-hacking. ALl we can do is try to get the word out, which is why I try to communicate with the mainstream.
Thank you Joe and CN for having the courage to say anything positive about Trump. It’s practically considered blasphemous, although he clearly de-escalated us from the brink of WWIII. The piece is a riveting summary and analysis of the historic Oval Office dustup. The “readers” comments in support of Zelensky are disturbing. Russia-gate and TDS are dangerously pervasive. I currently live in Jamaica, and it’s refreshing to be in a country where people don’t have a knee-jerk hatred of Russia/Putin.
I found this comment over on another great channel, Belle of the ranch. “what you witnessed today was a man without a suit and a suit without a man. Friggin’ classic!
I have to agree with Joe here. Although Zelensky’s actions could have been predicted. He got ambushed by a couple of gutless thugs on camera. A more savvy person would have handled the situation differently. However when you run with big dogs . . . ., you must be sure you are not in above your head. Like LHO, Zelensky is a patsy.
As Americans we have our national security community to blame for all this bullshit. Including getting the king of dumpster fires elected!
That’s funny. You write, “I have to agree with Joe here”, then proceed to demonstrate you clearly don’t agree with Joe’s take…. Typical of the confusion often demonstrated by someone who is irretrievably infected with TDS which clouds all rational thinking.
hxxps://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/mike-waltz-volodymyr-zelenskyy-donald-trump/2025/03/01/id/1200987/
Greta Van Susteren – intervieiwer now TV truth teller ?
Her father was a judge from Outagamie countty .
this county was special counsel ? / determination for sherriff / DA dispute over altered police complaints / reports few years ago — outside venue ?
“Incredible transparency that most journalists would die for”. What a spot on observation. And this was not by accident, this was a Trump chess move, and a brilliant one at that. Many thanks to Joe Lauria for his recent historical reviews of this Ukraine – Russia conflict. Victoria Nuland could just as well have written Sharon Narushoff’s comment, but for her hands being permanently soaked in blood.
Thanks for sharing the event. Moments to savor. And also humbling to realize that if Harris had managed to win the election, we would in all likelihood now be speeding down the WWIII highway with some Sullivan character reassuring us, like he did prof. Sachs: “There won’t be a war, Jeff!” Exaggerating..? Look at Bernie Sanders’ response. Pathetic. And he is probably the best that American liberal democracy will produce for a long time. Whatever else he may or may not do, Trump has thrown a spanner into the works of “project Ukraine” and the US uni-polar hegemony. Perhaps we will survive. Even as the EU and UK leaders instead of working for the benefit of their public are trying to keep the war going, no matter where it leads.
spare change
Act II :
Euroclear Bank, the central securities depository based in Belgium, holds frozen Russian assets variously estimated at €125 billion ($137 billion), €180 billion ($197 billion), and €190 billion ($208 billion). Euroclear generated €3 billion ($3.28 billion) in profits from these assets in the first nine months of 2023.
plenty to go around
T&Z Inc.
jp morgan
And every nickel + lnterest will at some point be paid back to its lawful owners.
RUSSIA also is holding substantial Western assests.
Bankers always reach agreements and Politicians inevitable abide by instructions from their Financial Overlords.
this:
Z cashes in with Russian Frozen assets .
hxxps://uawire.org/ukraine-secures-a-2-6-billion-defense-loan-from-the-uk-under-era-program#
T needs to intercept payment like they do to the poor in the US ?
My sympathies are with Volodomyr Zelensky. It was a two-on-one situation. As represented by Donald Trump Ukraine owed $350 billion to the U.S. Whatever the exact figure it was not out of pure kindness. The U.S. saw an opportunity to advance its interests of world domination and invested money that would furnish armaments, intelligence, training and the like. This would greatly benefit the MIC.
If Ukraine lost, Russia’s military would at least be reduced. It seemed the U.S. stood to gain either way Believing their own propaganda about Russian weakness, the U.S. seemed to think the arrangement would bring them recovery of land taken by Russia and possibly more. They expected to keep Europe out of the picture, as indicated by Victoria Nuland’s well publicized remark. As predicted by John Mearsheimer and other scholars, Russia was strong enough to bring the war to something like a stalemate, destroying much of Ukraine in the process.
Enter Trump, and the idea of deal-making – a good idea – with the starting point being that Ukraine owed the U.S. greatly – a bad idea – and that Ukraine should not expect to be gain much from the deal.
That is an outrageous starting point. How could Zelensky accept it without being thoroughly discredited in the eyes of the Ukrainian people? Unfortunately, he was hampered by the lack of complete fluency in the English language, and the two-on-one situation, and the interruptions.
He did very well under the circumstances.
He did very well to show the world that he pedals easily disproven propaganda and that he’s a known grifter that in the fullness of time will be uncovered when the audits are complete. We are only at the tip of this cracking iceberg called Project Ukraine.
I call it the Ukraine Caper … fun and games and $$$ for all, except for the Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and citizens losing lives, health, and property.
What is most interesting, and would be shocking if it hadn’t been made so apparent over the last dozen years or so, is the astounding ignorance and deception of these figures who control the fate of the world. Fortunately Russia and China are guided by highly knowledgeable, rational and deliberate leaders.
Yes, yes, yes – Geoff Burns. Listening to the heads of China and Russia reassures sanity
and maturity are not absent entirely in the political world. Then to witness their
country’s stability bears witness to those qualities.
Well, that’s show biz.
I can’t say I am sorry to see Zelensky shunted off, as poorly as the matter reflects on alliance with the United States. On the other hand, I am sure there was a fine arrangement of baits and threats to get him to sell his people into Hell.
Other European states ought to be taking note, since they seem eager to make similar errors. I imagine that the neoconservative and globalist contingent in the US goes on promising favors, assuring relative victim-compatriots that a nationalist American government in ’25 is only an anomaly, and that completely sealed-in power is but a breath away, more demonstrated than refuted by so odd an exception.
It looks pretty stark for Ukraine, especially when we get England and France jawing about sending “peacekeeping” NATO-nation troops that Russia finally invaded to exclude. May we not keep grinding people into powder.
‘his’ war, ‘his’ own propaganda. again pretty pro-usa tone-setting. if the world lets the us get away with this scapegoating zelensky (giving him all the blame), it’ll be iraq all over again. no lessons will be learned for the future, the us will (continue to) repeat the scenario in taiwan.
the ‘russian (putin) aggression’-narratives zelensky regurgitates did not originate in his mind, but were propagated long before zelensky took office (especially since 2008 – first attempt to flip georgia) and all the propaganda zelensky cites has never been contradicted by the western political-class and press (this pov was very much fed to the ukrainians (and the more naive europeans – the others played along).
re: ‘no coup in the baltics’, there might as well have been one. i understood that just like in ukraine these little states have been waging a war on all things russian. there too, probably usaid, ned and others, nurtured older anti-russian (and slightly pro-fascist) resentments and led to some quite provocative discriminatory policies toward the sometimes large russian speaking minorities. they’ve really done their best to provoke another front on that side too. russian restraint has been quite remarkable, imo.
I thought Zelinsky’s term of office expired. I know what we’d call it, if that happened in, say 2028, and the word isn’t “democratic.” How the MSM can go on calling him “president,” is a mystery to me, same as how they can call the unelected, self-selected dictator of the rump Syria, “President.” These terms are simply sloganeering. We are living in despicable times.
I hope you will do some exposing of this ‘minerals’ deal. Other, incomplete, reporting suggests it to be more like a buy-out of Ukrainian sovereignty, by allowing the US to own all of their natural resources, and a security committment to Ukraine due to the number of American citizens who will be sent there to extract the natural resources.
Zelenksy declared a state of emergency and says that under the Ukrainian Constitution he can suspend elections during a state of emergency.
True. I assume martial law provides the security that has kept most of their cities intact and allows children to attend school as Zelensky bragged during this exchange. But there is so much remaining insecurity that elections cannot be held? Have there been any challengers who could have run in opposition to the status quo? Or are the Banderites and their ilk too threatening to any who might have officially challenged the party line?
These are real questions and concerns for me.
Zelensky didn’t help his situation by his actions at the White House and could have represented himself better by being gracious with the president. That being said, he was played for a sucker by the West, who admittedly confessed to urging conflict with Russia. Stupidity or at least ignorance is enough to go around. Not long ago Lindsey Graham said, it was best that Ukrainians died rather than Americans in what he admitted was a proxy war. Russia had been fighting wars like this since the 13th century, not only Napoleon and Hitler, but Charles XII of Sweden and the Teutonic Knights of Germany. Why NATO and the West felt they could win in a war of national sovereignty in Russia is queer as hell.
Lindsay Graham is a shameful hypocrite who should be ignored by the media and whoever voted for this cretin.
As you stated he was amongst the most ardent warmongering neocons one could find. Then yesterday he’s praising Trump in front of the gathered press asking for Zelensky’s resignation. The man is completely shameless with below zero integrity and honour.
“Russia had been fighting wars like this since the 13th century, not only Napoleon and Hitler, but Charles XII of Sweden and the Teutonic Knights of Germany.”
Indeed. Some time ago, I pointed out to a blog commenter here in NZ, that the trajectory of invasion in that part of the world has traditionally been from West to East. But sadly, people don’t know the history, and simply accept uncritically the anti-Russia propaganda peddled by UK historians and the like. These people have done a good job of propagandising millions of people.
Here in NZ, I have noted with some amusement the number of commenters who claim to have turned their backs on the MSM, but who still repeat said MSM’s propaganda, as if it were truth.
Zelensky clearly deserves all that’s coming to him after his huge betrayal of the Ukrainian people;his personal gains have been enormous and after this round of calculated trouble-making is over he hopes to escape the partisans,the Banderites and the Russians and get away to e.g Florida into one of his mansions bought with our money with his family….however that Trumps first term increased the depth of the conflict and armed Ukrainian nationalists via NATO is conveniently buried.Trump simply wants to get the conflict over to turn against China and whether he succeeds or not in driving a wedge between China and Russia thankfully – and the opposite is more likely-isnt so relevant because US inventories have been vastly reduced whilst the lack of serious leverage US has over Russia may even become apparent.Russia is so not going to be patronised by Trump and will completely protect itself against any repetition of hostilities against outrages against Donbas etc,airbrushed out since by Nulands 2014 coup d etat by the lame media such as the use of petal bombs to lure children into having a foot blown off, but will seek to explore whats reasonably possible in other areas though wont trust US an inch.If Putin begins the make doe eyes again after Minsk 2 the entire Kremlin will resist him.Recent shenanigans in the Oval Office with all 3 lame ducks this week were just theater for the Americans to show the mighty Trump in all his glory rather like the obscene video is he made of himself with a well-known war criminal basking in Gazan sunshine over the bones of 100,000s Palestinians…a level of obscenity mirrored that Trump didnt even consult Jordan or Egypt which have accepted 100,000s refugees already over the years of the Nabka before announcing he would displace the remainder mainly across these 2 nations and they would indeed love to be moved out by his golden hand
thank you, yet again, mr lauria, for reminding us
of the chronology of facts on the ground, which led
to the mess our policy, f.law and arms makers have
managed to land us in, yet again.
quite some time ago, a colleague of yours in my EU country
wrote that this war could have been avoided if journalists
had done their job properly.
Fact….. Putin is still trying to reestablish those separatist countries that were in the old Soviet Union. Trump is not intelligent enough to see that.
Right let us know when he invades Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan to recreate the Soviet Union.
good one. LOL.
meanwhile most msm outlets are calling it “ambush”, “mendacious attack”, etc but little known fact stated by WH officials is that zelensky ignored the advice to not push for security guarantees, as they would be discussed/negotiated later.
Love it…I just added that argument to my repertoire of comebacks when “ debating “ online with incorrigible Russophobes.
I applaud you if you are able to have any reasoned discussion with these faux-liberal “Hilary Rodham Clintonites”. They are all still under the sway of her long-standing Putin phobia and their undying belief in Russiagate. The propaganda project was too successful.
Putin is no angel and no better but certainly no worse than many of our own dear leaders (Trump and Vance included) and most of the “dictators” we have supported and/or put into power around the world. I almost single-handedly lost a good friend just this week when I stated this. He’s usually well-informed but denied any knowledge of the very early peace talks and the dispatching of Boris Johnson to derail them, and challenged me to send links to support it. I haven’t decided what I’m going to do.
We suggest you send the links.
Whatever one’s assessment of the Russia/Ukraine situation may be, surely you don’t advocate for the kind of calculated rudeness shown to a foreign leader, who, even if you disagree with his position, is due common courtesy.
And referring to Trump as “ an informed leader” is ludicrous. Trump’s ignorance of basic factual information is a widespread joke. Without his father’s cushion of cash, he’d never have gotten through life.
The article goes to some length to show how uninformed both Trump and Vance were in regard to the context for the events in Ukraine, making the point that they should have been informed by Gabbard.
It seems she either missed that completely or chose to ignore it. You made that point quite clearly . Frankly I’m very disappointed at how ill informed our elected leaders actually are on basic points that should be well known. Obviously we tend to give them too much undeserved credit .
“…they should have been informed by Gabbard.”
They doubtless were. But unwinding the propaganda can take a considerable time: they likely didn’t take it all in. They wouldn’t be the first leaders to be ill-informed on matters international.
My – admittedly brief – conversations with fellow citizens, since Trump conceded that the conflict was actually begun by the Ukraine, suggests the same thing. They’re so completely propagandised, that it’ll take a long time for them to accept it. If some of them ever do….
How do you show courtesy and respect to this particular leader when he openly interjects with obvious propaganda points that are known to be such by those he’s trying to convince. That kind of misdirection propaganda works well with compliant media and leaders who share the same mindset and bias but not with two leaders of a great nation who are funding this enterprise and know better than to be taken in by this one sided interpretation of a complex conflict.
It’s a pity that we don’t get more of this type of honest open reality so that the public can be exposed to the truth of these proceedings that affect us all. He was long overdue for a complete dressing down.
A very cogent article. Seems the three “negotiators “ don’t read or didn’t know the history of the HRC/Obama inspired coup.
Not what I’d have hoped for from Vance and a poor performance by both Zelenskyy and especially Trump who says he’s negotiator.
I’m surprised that Ms. Narushoff is still not aware of the true history of this war.
The US spent $5BBillion overthrowing a democratically elected, OSCE confirmed, Pres. Yanukovich at Maidan (as publicly stated by V, Nuland but what most don’t know is that protesters were paid $250./day to show up, hold prepared signs, and yell!)
The Uko-nazis then started killing the Russian-speakers in the East as well as the 39 people burnt in the Union Bldg. in Odessa.
Putin,, as mentioned in the article, signed Minsk I and Minsk II trusting that the Accords would be kept, but they weren’t!
The Russian speakers pleaded with Putin to intervene to help them but he kept waiting for the West to stop. It took 8 years and 14.000 Russian-speakers lives before he intervened.
He could have swept through Ukraine in a matter of weeks and conquered it all but he just used a tactical operations to push the Ukrainians back.
This is the “Russian Aggression”! This is the “Satan” Putin.
I have a friend who is a Russian living here for a decade whose parents are still in Russia. I asked her if the Russian people support Putin hearing constantly from MSM that he is a dictator. She said that he is very much admired because he cares for his people and puts them first. She said that her pensioner mother said that if Putin asked them to go fight, they would even go with shovels to fight!
I’m also surprised that Ms. Narushoff didn’t read what Jefferey Sachs is saying.
BTW-Zelensky is not a Ukrainian, only spoke Russian during his campaign.
We would love to have a link to support this assertion:
as publicly stated by V, Nuland but what most don’t know is that protesters were paid $250./day to show up, hold prepared signs, and yell!)
well watching the whole 49 minutes, puts the ending dêbacle into context. of course all msm viewers only saw the gibberish at the end. either way, right from the beginning zelensky appeared to be a nervous wreck. i would not be surprised if the europeans (who seem to want to continue this war) have pressed on him to fight for US security. as they can’t do it alone.
One thing missing here is the compelling reason for Z to stick to the script. He and his family have been living under threat of death from the radical faction of his own military since he tried to broker peace during the Maidan uprising. That and the jeopardy he faces over his real estate and fortune.
As far as I know he had no political role during the Maidan events. He was a TV comedian at that time.
Joe Lauria’s annotated retelling of the dramatic Oval Office confrontation is just what we the public needed to make sense of this diplomatic inflection point, that the Deep State and its European vassals are already recasting in the familiar false narrative mould of Zelensky the embattled hero . It feels like a plunge in a Russian ice bath – Orthodox Epiphany was just a few weeks ago – an existentially shocking encounter with reality . Trump and Vance have now publicly registered that they have started to try to turn the aircraft carrier of this vicious NATO- initiated war around. I am more hopeful after this revealing encounter that they will actually succeed .
Tony Kevin, Canberra Australia
Just plain disgusted at the 3rd grade level of emotional intelligence – exhibited by the three men. Disgusted too by Bernie’s BS. Ignorance of history as context makes dumbbells of people. Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians have been callously, cynically played by the USA. Not simply is the USA corrupted by legalized bribery, but the very caliber of character, respect, decency, just dealing, and enlightened minds – all are corrupted. Mother Nature puts up with low caliber regard only so long. Til she knows the corruption is so fundamentally profound, the only “right response to such life killing disrespect is wild wind, conflagration and flood. These fools’ hubris – “making deals” – and using people like cheap grade used metal is wholly repugnant, garnering a level of karma that cancels all used car smarty pants’ “deals.”
Let us tell you what’s really going to come “crashing down”–the United States of America under the Trump/Musk regime. Putin plays Trump for a patsy because our President is so ignorant and egomaniacal. No one is faultless but President Zelensky and the Ukrainian people show more bravery than all the other people in that White House room could ever imagine. The sheer evil of what was done to Zelensky has overnight caused our global standing to slip even more. Appalling, shameful and inviting severe karma which only those who voted for the MAGA regime will deserve.
Zelensky is a NATO puppet, who ironically was elected into power based on a peace platform. He has failed to stand up to his puppet masters on several occasions, notably the Istanbul agreement torpedoed by Boris Johnson. Thus he carries huge responsibility for the continued killings of the people of his country.
Bullshit.
Learn some history before making a fool of yourself with this emotional good and evil nonsense.
Thank You Joe
imho, mistakes lie less with those who voted MAGA.
– plenty of people have been working for decades to
pave the way for what now unfolds at the white house.
[i call them the greedy insatiables: huge amounts of
money and power and they can’t get enough of either.]
– even more people, i.e. democrats, among others, did
close to nothing to prevent things from deteriorating
to the point where MAGA appealed to almost half of
the US population.
alas, this phenomenon has been spreading in europe, too.
unfortunately, democrats, among others, STILL do NOT
[want to?] comprehend that THEIR failures, their lack of
backbone, lack of care and concern for others, and their
lack of willingness and imagination to come up with viable
ways towards global justice, fairness, and wellbeing for all
– not just for a chosen few – led to the current messes in so
many parts of the globe.
Exactly! Thank you, Sharon.
America never should have been involved in this conflict in the first place. Europe already dragged us into two world wars and a cold war. It’s time to let them solve their own internal disputes amongst themselves.
NATO should have been dismantled when the Soviet Union collapsed. The only reason it wasn’t was because the American Empire found it a useful tool for keeping fat and lazy western European countries subservient due to their dependence on the security Uncle Sam provided. Then in the 90s they got the brilliant idea of expanding the franchise (and the subservience and dependence) eastward all the way to Russia’s doorstep. They also betrayed their defensive mission when NATO took it upon itself to go on the offensive and bomb Kosovo during the Yugoslav wars and then intervene in the Libyan Civil War a decade later in order to depose Gaddafi. Is it any wonder why Putin flatly rejects the fiction that NATO is purely a defensive alliance and responded aggressively to the threat of having NATO bases bordering his country?
Not sure about WWI, but it’s been said that the US prospered after WWII, and rumor has it that FDR knew in advance that Pearl Harbor was going to be bombed. Truman has been quoted saying that if Russia were winning, the US would have to help Germany and vice-versa. We also can’t forget that certain industrialists in the US even supported Hitler early on in the war. So I can’t be certain that the US was dragged into WWII like it was in WWI (unless that too was deliberate on the USA’s part).
Spot on!
CORRECT.
Too bad that consortium news has turned into a Putin-puppet outlet.
What does consortium news think of Josef Stalin ? Is Stalin their hero, along with Trump ?
Oh, stop it.
Constructitive criticism is not a destructive compliment ?
What is a double negative ?
Stalin Stooge ?
Kremlin Kringle ?
Too much Vlad Vodka ?
.
Zelensky had the trump card – and he threw it away.
I doubt many CN readers are big fans of Trump. But to clarify your comment, why do you think this war started? What would you have Trump do instead? And how is Putin “playing” Trump in your view? Regarding karma and Ukraine, the responsibility goes way beyond MAGA voters.
Please read Mr. Lauria’s article before commenting.
Well, where to start ?Are you regular reader of this publication or just an irritating troll. Did you actually read and fully comprehend what Mr.Lauria was trying to explain.? Have you read his opinion pieces over the years ? Then if you have why are you here. If it was to be factually informed I’ll assume he’s failed in his endeavour to educate the ill informed.
In the meantime Sharon spare us your shame and start expanding your sources of information because at this point it’s quite evident you’ve been drinking far too much MSM koolaid regarding this conflict along with the lying through disinformation,misinformation and deceitful omission.
Phillip….You need to read Heather Cox Richardson’s take of the Trump/Vance ‘made for tv’ show before you chastise another commenter.
Thanks Dennis for your invitation to read Ms.Ruchardson’s substack on the Zelensky WH visit.
After reading it and other of her articles I fail to see why I should refrain from “ chastising “ another commenter. Especially one who obviously isn’t in touch with the real history of this conflict.
Further , it’s obvious that Ms.Richardson herself is lacking in her knowledge regarding this conflict, throwing out the usual neo-liberal talking points concerning Russia, Putin and of all people quoting Liz Cheney.
I saw the entire news conference all 50 minutes. And the way Ms. Richardson chose to edit and splice it would have done any MSM hack proud.
I’m sure she’s well versed as an historian specializing in the Civil War and early Americana but it’s about time she studied in depth 20th.and 21st century historical events that the US has been engaged in.
It’s a good thing I got one free look at her Substack because paying for it would have been my bad.
Your ignorance–or is it deliberate MSM style de facto propaganda–is what’s appalling.
If you want to know about accurate assessments of how and why the war in Ukraine happened, read the many recent as well as archived accounts here at CN.
As for “severe Karma,” it for sure is deserved by far, far more than “only those who voted for the MAGA regime.” Like the elites of the Dem, Labour, and Liberal parties who brought disaster down on all of us. In the US, the neolibs, supporters of the trickle-up econopathy, usurped the D party in the late ’70s. They promptly dumped the New Deal and abandoned us, the majority working class. They did FOR the suffering unemployed of the Rust Belt/Appalachia exactly what the did TO the Wall St. vultures who caused the ’08 crash: NOTHING! No wonder the same area leads in ‘deaths of despair.’ Obama bailed out Wall St. For the millions of working people who lost jobs, pensions, homes? NOTHING!
What would you do if you were ignored for 40 years? And why do you think there are so many non-voters? In effect, they are saying NO to this corporate dominated dual aspect oligarchy. We blue collar workers have been suffering for decades and you safe, smug upper middle class D voters didn’t care. Welcome to our world; now you get to share in the misery.
So sorry you along with millions of others got snookered into believing the official narrative on Ukraine. Do you believe Russia hacked the DNC and stole the 2016 election for Trump? Once false information is internalized, it can be painful to learn you have been successfully lied to by your own government and media.
At some point, the truth will make itself known despite the best efforts of the establishment control freaks. Russia intervened in an 8 year old civil war waged by Ukraine against the breakaway republics in the Donbas after a U.S. backed coup in 2014 which overturned a democratic election supported by the majority in the Donbas. 14,000 people were killed before Russia intervened. Inconvenient facts Zelensky would prefer to not mention.
Stick around here and you will learn a great deal how official sources lie to the public about the wars the US instigates in order to prevent the rise of other countries’ development.
Is that you Mrs Zelensky?
The tin-pot, coke-head dictator got what he deserved yesterday, he’s a neocon puppet with the blood of a million Ukrainians on his hands.
Indeed, Arch Stanton. And then, of course, there is the neocon puppet maker standing behind the whole damn Ukrainian fiasco…all that blood…all those graves….all those manipulations sent out from wall-to-wall carpeting, martini lunches,
and back slapping Brioni suited egos in the governmental-industrial-technological-military-infotainment-complex in and around D.C. and Maryland.