Episode 9 of CN Live! was a four-hour special on the state of relations between Washington and Moscow.
Watch the replay of the 9th episode of CN Live!, a four-hour special on the U.S. and Russia, with guests George Beebe, former head of the CIA Russia desk; Ray McGovern, former CIA Russia analyst; Tony Kevin, former Australian diplomat who was posted to Moscow; ex-U.S. Marine counter intelligence officer Scott Ritter, who was based in the Soviet Union, and discusses his new Consortium News article on the CIA asset supposedly extracted from Russia who provided reputed evidence that President Vladimir Putin personally ordered the DNC computers to be hacked; Mark Sleboda, a Moscow-based geo-strategic analyst and journalist Patrick Lawrence, who spoke of his recent Consortium News article that asks whether the Establishment is changing its tune on Russia.
Watch the individual show segments on our YouTube channel.
You can also listen to the podcast or watch the entire replay here with your hosts Elizabeth Vos and Joe Lauria:
Such an informative show this week, thank you, with the sort of discussions one hardly hears today.
One thing to point out, that film footage and song of Moscow evenings was from the 1960s otherwise people watching this programme think Russia is still like this today ….
That was, as Patrick Lawrence said at one point, artfully done. The segment with Lawrence, McGovern & Ritter, gangbusters! Literally. I especially enjoyed how Ray burst out in a chuckle as Ritter pinned down how these high level spook honchos smeared themselves against the wall with their own horseshit. Priceless!
Beebe Schmeebe. Didn’t I read somewhere that lower level recruits, as they’re being siphoned into silos, sometimes take group mottos, such as: Inanity Before Profanity! But he did give a revealing indication of how their self-brainwashing works when he pontificated about “intentions” (try proving one of those in a court of law against a “secret society”) and how, well, while there is shown to be some (extremely minor, like .0000etc. fraction’s worth) involvement of “Russians”, there’s no proof positive that the Russian gov’t wasn’t directing them in an “attack” on the U.S. So, Mr. Reasonable, why then did Brennan, et. al. blow through every possible check & balance to reasonably question the veracity of the “intelligence” that made the made-up case, as Scott Ritter has described? Pure balderdash.
But, as Mr. McGovern cautioned, a couple of times, whether and how much of what really happened comes out, on the record and to the public, depends on political courage or the “cojones”, as he says, of the political actors involved. Talk about a limp reed to lean on.
Consortium News has now outdone itself with this exceptionally informative program on Russia, Knowing well Eastern Europe, including Russia, myself, I can say that not only do the insights ring true, but that you can learn more from listening to this program than from a doctoral program in international relations or law. Especially valuable was the discussion with Scott Ritter, Ray McGovern, and Patrick Lawrence (Smith?), which – if you listen closely – reveals the origins of “Russiagate”. Even though I also don’t agree with some key positions of George Bebbe, the remarks of this intelligent analyst show a beginning of a turn in the tide in Western foreign policy establishment attitudes towards Russia. As the recent NYT editorial shows, the Wurlitzer is playing a new tune. And even the “welterweight” Macron – to use the words of one of panel members, I think Patrick Lawrence – has come to the fore. The folks who were outraged during the near US-Russian hot war in Syria that Mr. Trump could dare to speak in favor of better relations with Russia – and for this reason cooked up Russiagate – now realize that the soup has gotten too hot and that we now have Russia falling into the arms of China – a reverse Nixon-Kissinger scenario – which may eventually lead to Chinese troops on the border of Poland, a disastrous result for the USA and Europe. In other words, on this one point of foreign policy, that Mr. Trump was right all along. And then we come to Tony Kevin – who, to contradict the previous commenter – is an intellectual heavyweight, as well as a man of courage – saying that foreign policy realism may – finally! – be making a comeback, to the great benefit of U.S. and West European national interests, as well as world peace, sweeping away the muddy thinking and moral hypocrisy of the neocons and liberal interventionists. Whether this indeed will the case is very iffy, so let us hope.
I really feel sorry for Joe Lauria that he had to put himself in the Ring with intellectual
Flyweights like George Beebe and Tony Kevin and had to diplomatically pull his punches because he is the Ring Master And a Heavyweight Intellectual like Joe Lauria and his Guest Ray McGovern (Who i was fortunate to speak with on the ‘Imperialism on Trial’ event in Belfast on March of this year) are well aware that Heavyweights like themselves can not get in a brawl with Flyweights like George Beebe and Tony Kevin as this would be the definition of a mismatch and Gentlemen never fight in a mismatch.
Tony Kevin’s knowledge about the Integrity initiative is appalling. He should really have did his homework on the subject especially before he made a fool of himself on CN Live. He should have checked out Nicholas Wilson (Mr. Ethical) brilliant articles on the Integrity initiative and he would have found it is a propaganda construct invented and funded by the HSBC Bank. Nicholas Wilson spoke on the Sputnik radio show Fault Lines on the 12th march 2019 titled Repetition, Omission & Misdirection – How the Mainstream Media Deceives… his segment starts at Starts at 19 minutes and 40 seconds.
Remarkable non sequiturs here by Pug. . I watched the Nicholas Wilson segment he recommended on YouTube, six minutes exploring links between Bill Browder, HSBC senior executives, and British intelligence. I had no difficulties with any of what Wilson said here, it all may well be true. I share Wilson’s very low opinion of Browder .
But I do not see the basis for Fug’s gratuitous abuse of me and Beebe as ‘intellectual flyweights”. Where and how does Fug jump to the conclusion from Wilson’s video that “Integrity Initiative is a propaganda construct invented and funded by the HSBC Bank?”
I heard no such statement from Wilson. He simply traced the human connections between some HSBC executives and British military and Intelligence circles, and he noted IfS and II as facts in that context. . We all knew this, it is how the UK elite typically networks and moves around between jobs.
So what ? Does this make Integrity Initiative unreal or unimportant or a “propaganda construct by HSBC Bank? No, it is real , and it is dangerous to our freedoms.
Let me conclude by asking Pug if he agrees or disagrees with these two propositions in my talk at ISAA in Canberra on 11 September:
“We are now in the thick of a ruthless but mostly covert Anglo-American alliance information war against Russia. In this war, individuals who speak up publicly in the cause of detente with Russia will be discouraged from public discourse”.
“A powerful anti-Russian news narrative is now firmly in place in Australia ( and in US and UK) , on every topic in contention: Ukraine, MH17, Crimea, Syria, the Skripals, Navalny and public protest in Russia. There is ill-informed criticism of Russia, or silence, on the crucial issues of arms control and Russia-China strategic and economic relations … “.
If he agrees with these propositions, we have no argument, and good day to him. This is a much bigger story than the obsessive anger against Russia of Bill Browder , who is indeed a lightweight with some malicious talent for troublemaking between Russia and the West.
This is really is an absurd comment. I have the utmost respect and admiration for Tony Kevin and had no punches to pull whatsoever.
Amen to Joe Lauria’s reply.
Sorry that such a distinguished diplomat and foreign policy thinker as Tony Kevin needs to rebut nasty criticism from a reader whose heart may be in the right place but who is inadequately informed about the issues and persons.
BTW: I’m now reading T. Kevin’s Return to Moscow – a most interesting, insightful travelogue and commentary about Russia then and now – highly recommend it.
If George Beebe is been truthful on his analysis then he has just proven to me that the CIA are as incompetent as i believed. It really is dangerous for the Empire to give imbeciles like George Beebe the power that they have. I would like to believe that there are proper checks and balances in place to prevent a clown like Beebe to from creating an international incident which could easily spiral into full blown war, but maybe this is exactly what men like him have been doing in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014 and only for Diplomats to pick up the pieces or for Vladimir Putin’s Rational thinking that prevented World War 3.
In defence of Bebbe, if you listen ‘between the lines” , he is an extremely intelligent moderate. Yes, he has the American point of view, but he DOES acknowledge the other perspectives (Russian in this case), and is clearly in favour of improving dialogue possibilities.
The DANGEROUS people in any situation are those who believe that one side is right and the other therefore necessarily wrong.
In my opinion Beebe illustrates the delusional/psychotic mindset of the CIA/MilIndComp, they block off completely the US push for world domination, hegemony. The US rejects a multi-polar world, it wants uni-polar US and it’s corporations world.
The way Beebe describes Russia, he is describing the US position and seems totally unaware that he is doing so, a complete MIC institutional psychosis.
The fact that the panel regarded Beebe’s admissions of a required change as a big step and shift for the CIA is horribly weak given the destruction of this body. No mention that the US want total control and access to resources and corporate take overs of targeted countries, that’s the US aim and yet Beebe gives the impression of a mutual give and take senario: ‘We’ll take over your energy industries and you can continued to control education?’.
The US has to publically declare a muti-polar world with respect to a country’s sovereignty and a UN that can democratically arbitrate and develope international law. Until that time the US can’t be trusted.
Re George Bebbe’s comment about the difficulty of seeing things from another perspective or cultural outlook (the other shoes). –
I have long maintained that by voicing suspicions, making accusations, and declaring someone’s intentions, we are actually only revealing and exposing OURSELVES. – We are pointing out that this is what WE would do, and naturally assume that the other must do the same.
Yes, for example the often repeated mantra “an increasingly aggressive Russia” meant “an increasingly aggressive US/NATO”. “Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction” meant “the US possesses weapons of mass destruction”. “Syria is a state sponsor of terrorism” means “the US is a state sponsor of terrorism”. “Iran poses a threat to the US” means “the US poses a threat to Iran”. “Russia meddled in the US election” means “the US meddled in the Russian and many other countries’ elections”. And so on.
In addition to routinely starting conflicts and wars with lies and false flags, what the US accuses other countries of doing is an accurate way to find out what the US or the CIA is in fact doing.
So far I’ve listened to the lead-off interview with Tony Kevin (now moved back in the line-up to 1:57:37), and thought it was great! Great discussion of the truly Orwellian nature of today’s mainstream media. Kevin’s personal experiences of being shut down by the “powers” behind the scenes were fascinating. Who is the coordinating center behind these “powers”? We have Whitney Webb’s latest great article.
“How the CIA, Mossad and “the Epstein Network” are Exploiting Mass Shootings to Create an Orwellian Nightmare”
https://www.mintpressnews.com/cia-israel-mossad-jeffrey-epstein-orwellian-nightmare/261692/
And another recent article by Juan Cole.
“Looks Like Israel Was Caught Spying on Capitol Hill Cell Phones and Trump Was Fine With It”
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/09/13/looks-israel-was-caught-spying-capitol-hill-cell-phones-and-trump-was-fine-it
I always watch in segments. Hell who can sit for four hours. BUT, by-golly darn this sure is some great stuff. Stuff you don’t find anywhere else.
I always try to watch all the pod cast just not at once. My big help is I have the time to do it. Who wouldn’t like to see Scott Ritter “Slam Dunk” Comey, Brennen and Co.
I do not place much faith in lying Bill Barr to do anything because his lying butt is caught also, on the other hand if he came clean with everything he knows about what he was involved in then he might actually measure up the those accolades heaped upon him during his confirmation. I would love to hear his explanation of his involvement in the Bilary Clinton BCCI scandal!
Knock, knock
https://twitter.com/hashtag/israelgate
Abe I’ve heard that Israel was using a “Stingray” type device’ to listen in. State local and country police agencies across the country use them constantly and as far as I can tell do it illegally. Are you familiar with these devices. No? Google it!
Great link, thanks.
@Robyn:
And has he no familiarity with what would constitute evidence of the DNC servers being hacked via the internet, which is what is claimed to have occured?
He sure doesn’t appear to have a clear idea of what that evidence would be, NSA router logs. Nor of course does he admit that after CrowdStrike made the claims of “Russia hacked the DNC”, the DNC servers were destroyed.
Binney and Murray don’t have to even factor into the answer to the request, still unanswered, “where’s the evidence of the hack?”
George Beebe uses weasel words. But basically reinforces russiagate in a limited hangout. CN got snookered with this CIA disinformation expert, Calls it the “regim”‘ compares Russia to NaziGgermany. Wrong about WWi, a waste of our time.
CN –
Thank you for this!
I did eventually watch the first two hours after seeing the last two first. Not exactly sure how that happened.
Great group of guests, although you were perhaps a bit too gentle with Bebbe during his interview. Difficult to know just how hard to push someone…
A very important topic, I hope you can have a similar kind of round table discussion regarding China, as well as revisiting Russia. The relationship of those two and how they interact with the rest of the world is key to understanding the 21st century.
* * *
American Exceptionalism…exceptionally self-centered and selfish
I think what struck me the most was the side commentary regarding how thoroughly careerism has infected and undermined our institutions, from government to academia to corporate media…a truly sad state of affairs…
This empire does not have much longer
Being in LA-LA-LAND I hope this is being recorded. Need to listen to it in chunks. Tell Scott – ‘Official Secrets’ is helping.
It would have been good to hear the hosts challenge Bebbe on his claims that in the USA the federal government isn’t really necessary.
He’s clearly unfamiliar with the bank bailouts, Social Security, civil rights legislation, environment laws, and a lot more.
Far too typical libertarian nonsense, especially when it comes from a former federal government (CIA) worker.
Thanks for setting the high water mark for true journalism these days. Love the show and all it stands for and accomplishes. And thanks for – as risible as it should sound to thoughtful people – “re-humanizing” the Russian people and their culture. Nice touch with the Russian culture footage.
Beebe’s estanlishment narrative and the group’s contrasting critique gave a fascinating perspective. Most of the US clings desperately to the Beebes of the world, the US is an exceptional nation and always has good intentions but gets it wrong sometimes because of our deeply held beliefs. All sold to us by an urbane gentleman who comes across as the former captain of the football team. The lies are so much more seductive than the ugly truth.
And thanks also for having on the very knowledgable Tony Kevin, and Mark Sleboda. Mark is sorely missed on Peter Lavelle’s CrossTalk.
Thanks Scott, Patrick and Ray for such an interesting, perceptive and edifying discussion!
Not sure if you’re having technical difficulties or not, but the video I have access to is only 2 hours and begins with the interview with Tony Kevin,
Thanks!
George Beebe’s book is one I definitely won’t be reading. How well researched could it be, given that the author gives credence to – or even believes – that Russia was involved in the DNC emails affair. Has he never heard of Bill Binney or Ray McGovern or Craig Murray?
Yikes! Is it even worth watching this video?
Agree…I fast forwarded the video to the next segment once it became clear where Beebe was coming from. However, I enjoy watching Elizabeth inserting some facts into the discussion.