The Still-Missing Evidence of Russia-gate

The central groupthink around Russia-gate is the still unproven claim that Russia hacked Democratic emails in 2016 and publicized them via WikiLeaks, a crucial issue that NSA experts say should be easy to prove if true, reports Dennis J. Bernstein.

By Dennis J. Bernstein

A changing-places moment brought about by Russia-gate is that liberals who are usually more skeptical of U.S. intelligence agencies, especially their evidence-free claims, now question the patriotism of Americans who insist that the intelligence community supply proof to support the dangerous claims about Russian ‘hacking” of Democratic emails especially when some  veteran U.S. government experts say the data would be easily available if the Russians indeed were guilty.

One of those experts is William Binney, a former high-level National Security Agency intelligence official who, after his 2001 retirement, blew the whistle on the extraordinary breadth of NSA surveillance programs. His outspoken criticism of the NSA during the George W. Bush administration made him the subject of FBI investigations that included a raid on his home in 2007.

Even before Edward Snowden’s NSA whistleblowing, Binney publicly revealed that NSA had access to telecommunications companies’ domestic and international billing records, and that since 9/11 the agency has intercepted some 15 trillion to 20 trillion communications. Snowden has said: “I have tremendous respect for Binney, who did everything he could according to the rules.”

Seal of the National Security Agency

I spoke to Binney on Dec. 28 about Russia-gate and a host of topics having to do with spying and America’s expanding national security state.

Dennis Bernstein: I would like you to begin by telling us a little about your background at the NSA and how you got there.

William Binney: I was in the United States Army from 1965 to 1969.  They put me in the Army Security Agency, an affiliate of the NSA.  They liked the work I was doing and they put me on a priority hire in 1970.  I was in the NSA for 32 years, mostly working against the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact.  I was solving what were called “wizard puzzles,” and the NSA was sometimes referred to as the “Puzzle Palace.”  I had to solve code systems and work on cyber systems and data systems to be able to predict in advance the “intentions and capabilities of adversaries or potential adversaries.”

Bernstein: At a certain point you ran amiss of your supervisors.  What did you come to understand and try to tell people that got you in dutch with your higher-ups?

Binney: By 1998-1999, the “digital issue” was basically solved.  This created a problem for the upper ranks because at the time they were lobbying Congress for $3.8 billion to continue working on what we had already accomplished.  That lobby was started in 1989 for a separate program called Trailblazer, which failed miserably in 2005-2006.  We had to brief Congress on how we were progressing and my information ran contrary to the efforts downtown to secure more funding.  And so this caused a problem internally.

We learned from some of our staff members in Congress that several of the corporations that were getting contracts from the NSA were downtown lobbying against our program in Congress.  This is the military industrial complex in action.  That lobby was supported by the NSA management because they just wanted more money to build a bigger empire.

But Dick Cheney, who was behind all of this, wanted it because he grew up under Nixon, who always wanted to know what his political enemies were thinking and doing.  This kind of approach of bulk acquisition of everything was possible after you removed certain segments of our software and they used it against the entire digital world.  Cheney wanted to know who his political enemies were and get updates about them at any time.

Bernstein: Your expertise was in the Soviet Union and so you must know a lot about bugging.  Do you believe that Russia hacked and undermined our last election?  Can Trump thank Russia for the result?

Binney:  We at Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) published an article on this in July.  First of all, if any of the data went anywhere across the fiber optic world, the NSA would know.  Just inside the United States, the NSA has over a hundred tap points on the fiber lines, taking in everything.    Mark Klein exposed some of this at the AT&T facility in San Francisco.

This is not for foreigners, by the way, this is for targeting US citizens.  If they wanted only foreigners, all they would have to do was look at the transatlantic cables where they surface on the coast of the United States.  But they are not there, they are distributed among the US population.

Bernstein: So if, in fact, the Russians were tapping into DNC headquarters, the NSA would absolutely know about it.

Binney: Yes, and they would also have trace routes on where they went specifically, in Russia or anywhere else.  If you remember, about three or four years ago, the Chinese hacked into somewhere in the United States and our government came out and confirmed that it was the Chinese who did it, and it came from a specific military facility in Shanghai.  The NSA had these trace route programs embedded by the hundreds across the US and all around the world.

The other data that came out from Guccifer 2.0, a download from the DNC, has been a charade.  It was a download and not a transfer across the Web.  The Web won’t manage such a high speed.  It could not have gotten across the Atlantic at that high speed.  You would have to have high capacity lines dedicated to that in order to do it. They have been playing games with us.  There is no factual evidence to back up any charge of hacking here.

Bernstein: So was this a leak by somebody at Democratic headquarters?

Binney: We don’t know that for sure, either.  All we know was that it was a local download.  We can likely attribute it to a USB device that was physically passed along.

Bernstein: Let me come at this from the other side.  Has the United States ever tried to hack into and undermine Russian operations in this way?

Binney:  Oh, sure.  We do it as much as anybody else.  In the Ukraine, for example, we sponsored regime change.  When someone who was pro-Soviet was elected president, we orchestrated a coup to put our man in power.

Then we invited the Ukraine into NATO.  One of the agreements we made with the Russians when the Soviet Union fell apart was that the Ukraine would give them their nuclear weapons to manage and that we would not move NATO further east toward Russia.  I think they made a big mistake when they asked Ukraine to join NATO.  They should have asked Russia to join as well, making it all-inclusive.  If you treat people as adversaries, they are going to act that way.

Bernstein: Did the US meddle in the Russian elections that brought Yeltsin to power?

Binney: I believe they did.  We try to leverage our power and influence elections around the world.

Bernstein: What has your group, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, been up to, and what has been the US government’s response?

Binney: We have been discussing privacy and security with the European Union and with a number of European parliaments.  Recently the Austrian supreme court ruled that the entire bulk acquisition system was unconstitutional.  Everyone but the conservatives in the Austrian parliament voted that bill down, making Austria the first country there to do the right thing.

A slide from material leaked by ex-NSA contractor Edward Snowden to the Washington Post, showing what happens when an NSA analyst “tasks” the PRISM system for information about a new surveillance target.

Bernstein: Is it your goal to defend people’s privacy and their right to communicate privately?

Binney: Yes, to defend privacy but also to defend the Constitution.  Right now, our government is violating the first, fourth and fifth amendments in various ways.  Mueller did it, Comey did it, they were all involved in violating the Constitution.

Back in the 1990’s, the idea was to make our analysts effective so that they could see threats coming before they happened and alert people to take action so that lives would be saved.  What happens now is that people go out and kill someone and then the NSA and the FBI go on a forensics mission.  Intelligence is supposed to tell you in advance when a crime is coming so that you can do something to avert it.  They have lost that perspective.

Bernstein: They now have access to every single one of our electronic conversations, is that right?  The human mind has a hard time imagining how you could contain, move and study all that information.

Binney: Basically, it is achievable because most of the processing is done by machine so it doesn’t cost human energy.

Bernstein:  There seems to be a new McCarthyite operation around the Russia-gate investigation.  It appears that it is an attempt to justify the idea that Clinton lost because the Russians undermined the election.

Binney: I have seen no evidence at all from anybody, including the intelligence community.  If you look at the Intelligence Community Assessment (ICA) report, they state on the first page that “We have high confidence that the Russians did this.”  But when you get toward the end of the report, they basically confess that “our judgment does not imply that we have evidence to back it up.”

Bernstein:  It was initially put out that seventeen intelligence agencies found compelling evidence that the Russians hacked into our election.  You’re saying it was actually selected individuals from just three agencies.  Is there anything to the revelations that FBI agents talked about taking action to prevent Trump from becoming president?

Binney: It certainly does seem that it is leaning that way, that is was all a frame-up.  It is a sad time in our history, to see the government working against itself internally.

Bernstein:  I take it you are not a big supporter of Trump.

Binney:  Well, I voted for him.  I couldn’t vote for a warmonger like Clinton.  She wanted to see our planes shooting down Russian planes in Syria.  She advocated for destabilizing Libya, for getting rid of Assad in Syria, she was a strong backer of the war in Iraq.

Bernstein: What concerns do you have regarding the Russia-gate investigation and the McCarthyite tactics that are being employed?

Binney: Ultimately, my main concern is that it could lead to actual war with Russia.  We should definitely not be going down that path.  We need to get out of all these wars.  I am also concerned about what we are doing to our own democracy.  We are trampling the fundamental principles contained in the Constitution.  The only way to reverse all this is to start indicting people who are participating in and managing these activities that are clearly unconstitutional.

Dennis J Bernstein is a host of “Flashpoints” on the Pacifica radio network and the author of Special Ed: Voices from a Hidden Classroom. You can access the audio archives at


127 comments for “The Still-Missing Evidence of Russia-gate

  1. stephen l kelley
    January 1, 2018 at 11:21 pm

    this is all sheer madness. sit back and think for a moment. we have democrats out to prove that they are tougher than republicans because they want to fight russia(why??). so we now have two counter revolutionary parties dominating the conversation! what a sick joke!

    • January 2, 2018 at 1:10 pm

      The Democrats have never said they “want to fight Russia,” nor have they behaved in a way that suggests that they do.

      • Tannenhouser
        January 2, 2018 at 6:51 pm

        Do yea votes in favor of economic warfare (sanctions) count?

      • January 2, 2018 at 6:57 pm

        The Democrats have never said they “want to fight Russia,” nor have they behaved in a way that suggests that they do.

        Really ! You need to read Joe Biden’s latest diatribe on the so called Russian threat or tune in any night to hear the rants of Senator Sheiff on the senate intelligence committee.

      • SteveK9
        January 2, 2018 at 8:51 pm

        They spoke in favor of Hillary Clinton’s proposal to introduce a ‘no-fly’ zone over Syria, which would have meant shooting down Russian jets. I tend to think that is ‘fighting Russia’. Listen to Adam Schiff. He is the leading Democrat on the Intelligence and most certainly is promoting a fight with Russia. Morgan Freeman was induced by influential Democrats to produce a short video claiming ‘We are at War’ with Russia. A little searching by yourself would find many more examples to counter your own statement.

        • irina
          January 2, 2018 at 11:24 pm

          Not to mention the execreble Frontline ‘documentary’ on PBS called “Putin’s Revenge”.

        • Skip Scott
          January 3, 2018 at 9:42 am

          I was aghast when Morgan Freeman came out with that BS. From some of the movies he’s acted in, I thought he was a good guy. I loved “The Bucket List” and “A Shawshank Redemption”, but when I watched that video, I just thought WTF?

          • Realist
            January 4, 2018 at 7:07 pm

            Same reaction here, Skip. I guess party tribalism trumps all in the end. I guess all the pseudo-intellectual posturing in his works like the “search for god” are just Hollywood affectation. Sad.

      • Realist
        January 4, 2018 at 7:15 pm

        Uh, just tune in a gab show hosted by Rachel Maddow every night on MSNBC. It pretty much covers all the talking points the DNC and the rest of the Democratic leadership want to get out, and it is extremely bellicose towards Russia. While in office, the most important Democrat of them all, Barrack Obama, used to routinely talk trash about Putin and Russia… when he wasn’t making baseless accusations and imposing unjustified sanctions. At the very least, what Obama and the Dems have purposefully created is a brand spanking new cold war against Russia which is more fraught and more dangerous, and in a world with more US-sponsored trip wires to a hot war, than the original.

      • January 13, 2018 at 4:31 pm

        In Kaine’s debate with Pence, he was virtually frothing at the mouth at the prospect of No Fly Zones in Syria and confronting the Russians.

  2. Abe
    January 1, 2018 at 11:59 pm

    As Russia-gate is ever increasingly revealed as Israel-gate, it would be great to hear Binney and VIPS discuss concerns about Israeli intelligence activities in the US.

    In a 2012 interview for Wired, Binney discussed surveillance technology that was passed to the Israelis:

    “according to Binney, the advanced analytical and data mining software the NSA had developed for both its worldwide and international eavesdropping operations was secretly passed to Israel by a mid-level employee, apparently with close connections to the country. The employee, a technical director in the Operations Directorate, ‘who was a very strong supporter of Israel,’ said Binney, ‘gave, unbeknownst to us, he gave the software that we had, doing these fast rates, to the Israelis.’

    “Because of his position, it was something Binney should have been alerted to, but wasn’t.

    “’In addition to being the technical director,’ he said, ‘I was the chair of the TAP, it’s the Technical Advisory Panel, the foreign relations council. We’re supposed to know what all these foreign countries, technically what they’re doing…. They didn’t do this that way, it was under the table.’ After discovering the secret transfer of the technology, Binney argued that the agency simply pass it to them officially, and in that way get something in return, such as access to communications terminals. ‘So we gave it to them for switches,’ he said. ‘For access.’

    “But Binney now suspects that Israeli intelligence in turn passed the technology on to Israeli companies who operate in countries around the world, including the U.S. In return, the companies could act as extensions of Israeli intelligence and pass critical military, economic and diplomatic information back to them. ‘And then five years later, four or five years later, you see a Narus device,’ he said. ‘I think there’s a connection there, we don’t know for sure.”

    “Narus was formed in Israel in November 1997 by six Israelis with much of its money coming from Walden Israel, an Israeli venture capital company. Its founder and former chairman, Ori Cohen, once told Israel’s Fortune Magazine that his partners have done technology work for Israeli intelligence. And among the five founders was Stanislav Khirman, a husky, bearded Russian who had previously worked for Elta Systems, Inc. A division of Israel Aerospace Industries, Ltd., Elta specializes in developing advanced eavesdropping systems for Israeli defense and intelligence organizations. At Narus, Khirman became the chief technology officer.

    “A few years ago, Narus boasted that it is ‘known for its ability to capture and collect data from the largest networks around the world.’ The company says its equipment is capable of ‘providing unparalleled monitoring and intercept capabilities to service providers and government organizations around the world’ and that ‘Anything that comes through [an Internet protocol network], we can record. We can reconstruct all of their e-mails, along with attachments, see what Web pages they clicked on, we can reconstruct their [Voice over Internet Protocol] calls.’

    “Like Narus, Verint was founded by in Israel by Israelis, including Jacob ‘Kobi’ Alexander, a former Israeli intelligence officer. Some 800 employees work for Verint, including 350 who are based in Israel, primarily working in research and development and operations, according to the Jerusalem Post. Among its products is STAR-GATE, which according to the company’s sales literature, lets ‘service providers … access communications on virtually any type of network, retain communication data for as long as required, and query and deliver content and data …’ and was ‘[d]esigned to manage vast numbers of targets, concurrent sessions, call data records, and communications.'”

    Shady Companies With Ties to Israel Wiretap the U.S. for the NSA
    By James Bamford

    • Banger
      January 2, 2018 at 1:37 pm

      Any tribal grouping that is deeply disciplined can have an outsize effect in Washington. The most disciplined and effective “gang” After WWII and the Holocaust Zionist ideology took on the notion that the entire world is the enemy of Jews and mainly militant and aggressive military and (mainly) covert actions need to be at the center of Israeli state policy. Many right-wing Israelis believe implicitly that they are the only people that matter in the world–they are a truly tribal society–this has nothing to do with spirituality. The famous “Samson Opion” state by Golda Meir: “Most European capitals are targets for our air force … We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.” Israelis are, in effect, blackmailing the world and have, for some time, infiltrated and partly control essential parts of the U.S. national security state and the mainstream media. It is the one “conspiracy” that is hiding in plain sight.

      • January 2, 2018 at 11:16 pm

        thermite is in all world trade center dust? that conspiracy?

        • backwardsevolution
          January 3, 2018 at 7:28 am

          marley engvall – fascinating videos! I watched the second one with Dr. Steven Jones, and I’m just now watching the third one with Dr. Niels Harrit. Thanks a bunch for posting these!

          Just to see how that thermite expanded was worth it. I am sorry that Dr. Steven Jones lost his job. He seems like such a nice man and a dedicated scientist.

          Everybody should watch these.

        • January 9, 2018 at 11:00 am

          Thermite is composed of iron oxide (rust) and aluminum powder as was to some degree, the scrap left over from the world trade center. Nano thermite…yeah that it… they put it on Wellstones plane cough.

  3. Joe Tedesky
    January 2, 2018 at 1:32 am

    “Binney: Ultimately, my main concern is that it could lead to actual war with Russia. We should definitely not be going down that path. We need to get out of all these wars. I am also concerned about what we are doing to our own democracy. We are trampling the fundamental principles contained in the Constitution. The only way to reverse all this is to start indicting people who are participating in and managing these activities that are clearly unconstitutional.“

    This could not have been said any better, and considering the price William Binney & his fellow VIP members have paid for their loyal patriotism is just another sign of our times that we Americans have loss our way.

    • john wilson
      January 2, 2018 at 5:46 am

      Not quite fair to say “we Americans have lost our way”, Joe. Its the scum at the top in the deep state and the corporations together with MSM who have deviated from the path of true democracy and respect for privacy and freedom.

      • Joe Tedesky
        January 2, 2018 at 11:39 am

        Thank you John, you are right there are a lot of good Americans putting up the crap being flushed down upon them by the higher echelon of greed at the top. Joe

        • January 2, 2018 at 11:17 pm

          thermite is in all world trade center dust.

          • Joe Tedesky
            January 3, 2018 at 1:57 am

            From your linked article…

            “Professor Pileni’s resignation from the journal provides an insight into the conditions for free speech at our universities and other academic institutions in the aftermath of 9/11. This situation is a mirror of western society as a whole—even though our academic institutions should be havens in which research is evaluated by its intrinsic excellence, not its political correctness.”


            I’m no expert, but I lean towards wanting to learn more about the thermite evidence (if I could only understand it),but that’s an on going conviction of 911, and I think we need more of it.

            About what happens with professors, business executives, politicians, military commanders, and on and on is pathetic. From the doctors at Parkland to your linked articles Professor Pileni should never happen inside a well run society…but then where do you find one? Joe

          • backwardsevolution
            January 3, 2018 at 7:59 am

            marley engvall – you’ve probably already seen this, but this is another good video:


            Just another one of the many “official narratives” that don’t hold water.

  4. Annie
    January 2, 2018 at 1:38 am

    They obviously don’t have any conclusive proof that Russia assisted in Trump’s election, because if they did that proof would have been on the table long ago. The people I know who harped endlessly on Russia’s involvement in our elections wanted to see it as a vehicle to impeach him. Well, I think they see it didn’t work, and most don’t bring it up anymore, although they are still quiet believers. Hard to accept you bought into bullsh*t. Maybe now they will stop their anti-Trump rhetoric and they will become active political participants in going after his policies. Then they should take a good look at the democrats, and it was mostly democrats who pushed Russia-gate, and question their politics as well, and as Bernie said push for a progressive agenda which the democrats no longer provide.

  5. Matt Rubenstein
    January 2, 2018 at 5:19 am

    I don’t question Binney’s expertise, but I do question his judgment.

    “Bernstein: I take it you are not a big supporter of Trump.

    Binney: Well, I voted for him. I couldn’t vote for a warmonger like Clinton.”

    Really? Trump the peace candidate? Because he said a few incoherent things about making nice with Russia, while also promising to blast Iran and North Korea and openly stoking nativist racism at home? Was Binney paying attention to simply *everything* not Russia-related Trump said (and did) prior to becoming the most dangerous war monger to occupy the office in my lifetime? Might Binney’s pre-election commitment to opposing Clinton and supporting Trump be somehow coloring his view even now? Worth worrying about, is all I’m saying.

    So is this:

    • David Smith
      January 2, 2018 at 1:29 pm

      The Democratic Party claims the Rooskies hacked their hardware? Then make your hardware available to multiple teams of forensic analysts(Clownstrike doesn’t count) and they will all find evidence of a hack. But the Dems will not allow that. Why not if the evidence is there? The conclusion is implacable, there is no evidence and the Dems are lying when they claim they were hacked by the Russia.

      • backwardsevolution
        January 2, 2018 at 4:36 pm

        David Smith – I agree. The Democrats (and some Republicans are going along) trumped up this Russia scare in order to maintain the “fascism” that already exists. The Deep State was worried sick that Trump might want to make nice with Russia, so they manufactured the pack of lies that is Russiagate. I mean, what’s a weapons manufacturer to do if there are no more wars?

        Trump, in his quest to fulfill what he wants to get done (bring jobs back, stop globalization, stop illegal immigration, infrastructure spending) has tried to placate the warmongers, give them just enough while getting some of what he wants. Playing with the devil.

        Matt Rubenstein, the U.S. had a slick-talking, well-suited salesman in office for eight years. Yes, he was a good teleprompter reader; yes, he was coherent. But look at what happened: Ukraine, Libya, Syria, Uranium One, and the list goes on. More illegals were sent back under Obama’s two terms than any other president, and yet we didn’t hear from the media that the “sky was falling” or that racism was rearing its ugly head.

        Fascism is already alive and well in the U.S. Corporations and government have been working hand in hand to ensure the Swamp is protected and continues to flourish. They are currently busy censoring the Internet, limiting speech, arresting without warrants. Media ownership is in fewer and fewer hands and has taken to telling outright lies with impunity. The rich continue to get richer.

        Trump is doing a valuable service by exposing this rot to the American public. Could it be that the orange buffoon is actually smarter than he looks?

    • SteveK9
      January 2, 2018 at 8:59 pm

      Trump was indeed the ‘peace candidate’. It wasn’t just a few incoherent statements. It was consistent and it went against his own interests, since this was not supported by Republicans either. There is only one rational explanation … he believed it. He doesn’t have the intelligence and determination to stick with it, faced with an endless onslaught from the powers that rule this country. If he had any chance at all, the Democrats scuttled it with the relentless Russia-gate BS. That is why this life-long Democrat will never vote for a Democratic candidate again, ever.

      • backwardsevolution
        January 2, 2018 at 9:08 pm

        SteveK9 – yes, that’s exactly what has happened. Well said.

    • Gregory Herr
      January 2, 2018 at 10:05 pm

      Matt–it was and still is clear that Clinton is a dangerous solicitor of war. She supported the heinous invasion and destruction of Iraq and provided cover for terrorists to overrun Libya. Her cheerleading for the Israeli attack on Lebanon (replete with nasty cluster bombs) in 2006 and support for fascists in Ukraine and the vile war on the Syrian people was grotesque. Had she gained the White House, her insistence on establishing no-fly zones in Syria could very well have been the folly to end all follies. She is cut from the same cloth as Albright—a person who can say that the death of 500,000 children due to sanctions (sanctions that withhold medical and other necessities are tantamount to murder) is “worth it”. The only difference between her and Albright is that Albright doesn’t glow with the same self-satisfaction that Clinton portrays. She can lie with the worst of liars and two-face with the best of them. Binney’s judgement of Clinton was accurate.

      What will it take for Americans to to stop being like the monkey who sees or hears no evil? When will the unfathomable sufferings caused by these wars based on greed and aggrandizement be truly acknowledged–truly felt as REAL? When will Americans as a whole stop thinking bombing people is in any way normal or justifiable?
      Or start understanding that people all over this earth just want to have their home and their children and their peace?
      I agree that Trump may in the end be no better…but he will really have to press it to be worse when it comes to the abject poverty of soul displayed by deplorable warmongers like Clinton.

      • Linda Wood
        January 3, 2018 at 2:55 pm

        Gregory Herr, your statement is one of the strongest and most heartfelt I have read on this subject anywhere. Thank you for saying it. Peace.

        • Gregory Herr
          January 3, 2018 at 8:25 pm


    • Joe Tedesky
      January 3, 2018 at 2:24 am

      In response to your link….

      It is regrettable that Katrina vanden Heuvel even found it necessary to be forced by popular concern to write such an article. There is a societal censorship, and it appears to be on the rise. I would consider one of the contributing factors is our MSM Infotainment business, which enforces through it’s means to create a false reality, and to exploit the trivially of human nature to a point of mass hysteria that is uncalled for. Sensitivity should lead one to advocate, but to shut down free speech needs to be protected first and foremost.

    • S Burnitt
      January 7, 2018 at 11:15 pm

      Binney’s endorsement of Trump, and his crazy threats towards N. Korea and Iran is discouraging for this dilligent and earnest “Global Targeted Individual Survey” responder. Trump is also a very enthusiastic supporter of torture, and Binney’s Trump endorsement adds insult to lethal injuries.

      I think it is time to forget about ex-Stasi Binney’s survey analysis. He seems more concerned for Trump’s well being. Someone like that is not going to lift a finger.

      By the way, I was put under Zersetzung torture by W’s gangsters, but Obama’s gangsters were even nastier; my disgust is bipartisan. I voted for none of them. And I also oppose a military / IC coup. What is needed is a clued up electorate, but it is obviously not up to it.

    • Gene Poole
      January 9, 2018 at 7:58 am

      Clinton would have been the greatest warmonger to occupy the office since WW II. Trump at least pretended he saw and opposed the madness. Now we know that it was just pretense. But with “We came, we saw, he died” Clinton there was no doubt.

  6. Babyl-on
    January 2, 2018 at 6:18 am

    Bernstein: I take it you are not a big supporter of Trump.

    Binney: Well, I voted for him. I couldn’t vote for a warmonger like Clinton. She wanted to see our planes shooting down Russian planes in Syria. She advocated for destabilizing Libya, for getting rid of Assad in Syria, she was a strong backer of the war in Iraq.

    This passage illuminates my view of Trump or rather, Trump’s election.

    Here we see an inelegant and accomplished man who voted for Trump. He did so because he, like millions of others, saw Clinton for what she is a dangerous warmonger. In addition, he like so many of us, is just fed up with the authoritarian oppressive Neo-feudal Empire the US has become. Binney did not vote for Trump as his leader or because of his policies – he voted for a proxy of his discontent. His choice has been the proper one. It is great for American workers and for the world at large that TPP, TTIP and NAFTA are dead now. Everyone knows that at the UN there is all kinds of blackmail arm twisting threats bribery and bullying by the US behind the scenes – it is a positive that Trump exposed US bullying and dirty behavior so dramatically to the world.

    As practically everyone said before the election, Trump is not a politician. Applying criteria such as his having “a base” which would apply to politicians does not apply to Trump. People who voted for Trump voted to demonstrate their utter disdain for the oppressive Neo-feudal system to put in someone who would show it for what it is.

    Trump is a proxy for an international insurgency against the Neo-feudal Empire of the West. Brexit, Catalonia, and a hundred other events are the manifestations of insurgency not of ordinary political movements.

    There are only two sides – you are an insurgent against this feudal oppression or you are an Imperialist. There are no divisions of left/right good/bad igno-deploribales against the multi-letter bathroomers there are insurgents against the Neo-feudal state all of whom – whether we like them or not – are suffering in misery and finally fed up with how they are being used and killed and made to suffer in tedious poverty for the pleasures of the sociopaths who rule by ordering the slaughter of innocent people day after day for 73 years and counting.

    • Tannenhouser
      January 2, 2018 at 10:34 am

      So the insurgents voted for an imperialist because they are upset at the imperialist’s? I tend to agree that trump has exposed alot. Too bad everyone is too emotionally triggered to notice. I think that many conversations ( Corruption, warmongering race, banking) that should happen are happening….. albeit in a controlled opposition way, yet it all seems to be just as John Ralston Saul describes in Voltaire Bastards, societal release mechanisms. Nothing has changed all the wars are still ongoing Israel is pushing for more, the wealthy are taking even more and giving less, americas only export is Depleted Uranium democracy. I’m not sure he can be seen as proxy for insurgents any longer if he ever could really.

      • S Burnitt
        January 7, 2018 at 11:34 pm

        The 2016 election and result brought two consolations. HRC and the DNC were exposed by their own words during the campaign, and psychopathic US institutions are now fiuratively slashing at each other with long knives in front of fools who endorsed them in voting booths for so many decades. A pox on all of them.

    • mike k
      January 2, 2018 at 12:51 pm

      Being fed up does not justify being stupid. If Trump pushes us into nuclear war, will the “smart choice” folks still celebrate? Voting in America qualifies you as ignorant from the get go. Why endorse a crooked system? Be honest: a vote for either candidate was stupid and ineffectual. Trying to justify one’s voting choice is only compounding an error.

      • Skip Scott
        January 2, 2018 at 3:23 pm

        Hi mike k-

        Although I usually agree with you, I can’t say I do this time. Although Bernie’s foreign policy creds were always “iffy”, I supported him during the primaries, because he was the lesser warmonger. When he caved to the Clinton machine, I voted for Jill. I’ve switched parties many times to be able to vote for a peace candidate in the primaries, be it a Ron Paul or a Dennis Kucinich.
        I understand Bill Binney’s vote for Trump based on his stated position of seeking detente with Russia, but I couldn’t bring myself to vote for such a mean spirited candidate, who obviously doesn’t deserve anyone’s trust.

        No doubt the system is crooked. However, besides armed revolution, I see no other path forward. With enough people willing to engage in peaceful protest, and to vote for peace candidates, we could change the system non-violently. I don’t see voting as “endorsing” our crooked system, I see it as one part of strategy to work for peace and change the system.

        • glitch
          January 2, 2018 at 3:28 pm

          Well said.

          • Gregory Herr
            January 2, 2018 at 10:15 pm

            Absolutely well said Skip.

        • mike k
          January 2, 2018 at 5:03 pm

          Hi Skip. I feel that those who still vote in the rigged elections in the US are not really aware of how totally corrupt those who actually rule over us are. Every member of congress is a criminal of the worse sort and a traitor to humankind. Murderous, torturing scum have become our rulers, and you are right about one thing – a revolution is about the only way we will ever come out from under these ruthless tyrants. A hope based on thinking things are really not as bad as they actually are is the definition of a false hope, which is not only ineffective, but stands as a real obstacle to the things that might actually work.

          There was a man standing in the surf of the ocean pissing in it. A man walking by asked him why he did it this way? He replied “the ocean is becoming too acidic, and my urine is alkalinizing. I come down every day to do this.” The passerby says, “do you think that will change it?” To which the man replies, “every little bit helps.”

          • Gregory Herr
            January 2, 2018 at 10:50 pm

            mike–I very much appreciate where you come from and honor what I see as your deep sense of spirituality and your passion for beauty and truth. I might guess you think highly of Keats as do I.

            I’ve been naive to the depth of corruption and I’ve misplaced hope in politicians. But these past few years have widened my eyes in many ways. I think what hope I now have isn’t based on thinking things aren’t “as bad as they actually are”, but is rather based on knowing there is good in this world and solutions, political and otherwise, are worth striving for. Perhaps my vote for Jill Stein was completely ineffectual–but perhaps not. No, the tide didn’t turn as much as I would have liked…but you never know, it still may be turning in ways we can’t yet appreciate. It was worth a shot to think Stein’s voice could have elevated the discussion and galvanized productive thinking among our youth…and in ways something like that may yet happen. The revolution of mind and heart that you deem necessary needs all the “routes” we can open. Voting for Stein, to me, said something. It said we need an overhaul. What is politically “ineffectual” today may become tenable tomorrow. Tomorrow never knows.

          • mike k
            January 3, 2018 at 9:54 am

            (This is a reply to Gregory Herr’s comment just below this one.) I thought to vote for Jill Stein, myself. But at long last I decided that pissing in the ocean was just in a small way validating the very procedure that has been rigged to ensure the populace’s illusion of democratic empowerment. Voting in our crooked elections will NEVER result in the positive changes essential to our survival as a species. The energy I would spend to make it to our local voting site would be much better spent in some other efforts, such as trying to wake others to the futility of working within a system that is essentially a huge totally unprincipled Mafia.

            On the other hand I try to practice karma yoga, which enjoins one to work without dependence on results. And if you should by chance find me at the polls preparing to vote, I would probably quote Emerson – “Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds!”

            And yes, I love Keats and all true poets. “Truth is beauty, beauty truth.”

        • backwardsevolution
          January 2, 2018 at 5:39 pm

          Skip Scott – Happy New Year to you. The only thing I take issue with in your excellent post is Trump being a “mean-spirited” candidate. I actually believe that had the Deep State not trumped up Russiagate in order to stop Trump, he would have made peace with Russia. He probably would have dismantled NATO too, or greatly cut it back.

          To me, what everybody calls “mean-spirited” is Trump trying to protect American citizens, ensure they have jobs, decent wages, good roads and bridges. The U.S. is a highly divided country, so many interests vying for attention. It has lost the glue that once tied it together. It has lost its speech; political correctness has filled the void.

          Is it actually mean-spirited to favor your own citizens over international citizens? Isn’t that what makes a country, a nation? Maybe I just don’t get it, Skip Scott. What exactly do you mean by “mean-spirited”?

          • Leslie F.
            January 2, 2018 at 9:16 pm

            If you shrink the world down to only Russia, that might make sense but the responsibilities of the Presidency are much broader than that. He was openly racist and went so far as to encourage police brutality. He coddled neo-nazis. He was open about his desire to deny refugee status to the people of Latin America and Middle East displaced by our machinations in their counties. He made his hatred for North Korea and Iran very apparent. He was even worse than Hillary there. So yes, he was the most mean spirited candidate I can remember. Good relations with Russia are important but not nearly enough to outweigh the rest of it.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 2, 2018 at 10:35 pm

            Leslie F. – I find great fault with President Trump on Iran and North Korea. I totally agree with you. What he did with moving the capital of Israel to Jerusalem was also a very dumb move.

            But I don’t think Trump coddled neo-nazis. If you are referring to Charlottesville, I believe Trump said that both sides were to blame. I think he’s right in saying that. I hear terms like “white supremacists”, “white nationalists” and “neo-nazis” being bandied about, but these people are a very tiny minority.

            The U.S. has umpteen sanctuary cities and now even sanctuary states. Separate countries within the country. Federal judges are defying orders, only to later be slapped down. Is there a rule of law, or not? Is there a single country?

            Do illegals have more rights than legitimate U.S. citizens? The U.S. doesn’t need millions more uneducated people. There are already too many unemployed, homeless and opiate-addicted people. There is no need to add more.

            That’s not being racist. That’s looking out for U.S. citizens.

            I do agree with you that the U.S. ought to stop pillaging and destroying other countries, though. But since they are, and since they are killing people, they must be careful about who comes to the U.S. I can’t imagine someone who has lost members of their family wanting to come to the very country who killed their loved ones. I highly doubt whether they’d just move into a neighborhood and quietly go about their lives. They’d be angry and “might” want to take revenge.

          • Skip Scott
            January 3, 2018 at 10:04 am

            Hi B.E.-
            Happy New Year to you as well. I’ve never liked Trump’s personality. I didn’t like his attitude on his reality TV show, I didn’t like his “grab ’em by the pussy” remark, and I didn’t like his multiple bankruptcies- to name just a few things. I have a lot of friends in the construction business; and as a subcontractor, when you don’t get paid, you can’t pay your people. There are probably hundreds of folks that got screwed by Trump and couldn’t make their mortgage, pay their bills, or maybe even feed their kids. These are Americans, not Mexicans, if that makes a difference to you. Trump is a narcissistic shyster. He has the emotional maturity of a 15 year old, and he has his finger on the nuclear button. And now it seems he was lying about pointless warmongering as well. Iran-here we come!

          • backwardsevolution
            January 3, 2018 at 5:55 pm

            Skip Scott – thanks for your reply. I don’t disagree with you re Trump’s personality. Abrasive. And I think I only watched his TV program once, maybe twice. I didn’t like the slick salesmanship of it. His “pussy” remarks were gross and low-class. Agreed.

            I don’t know enough about Trump’s bankruptcies to comment, except to say that many, many people went bankrupt after the 2008 financial crisis, and they couldn’t pay their creditors either, they couldn’t pay their mortgages. Does it matter whether you’re rich or poor?

            But then I’ve never understood the idea of “bankruptcy” anyway. I figure if you owe someone money, even though you maybe can’t pay them back right away, you should work hard for the rest of your life until you can pay them back. I don’t get how you can so nonchalantly just cancel your debts, like magic. For some people, this appears to be a business practice.

            When you get right down to it, who is really at fault when there are massive bankruptcies, booms and busts? Answer: the Federal Reserve.

            If Trump goes after Iran or North Korea (or, horrors, Syria again), then he is a complete fool and my support for him will die in a New York minute. The only reason I support Trump is because I somehow (maybe stupidly) feel that he is being pushed into these positions. He had better put up or shut up, though. IF he is being pushed, he needs to inform the American people.

            I also think that Trump has his own agenda (end globalization, bring jobs back, stop illegal immigration). So he might be trying to placate the neocons in order to get what he wants to get done. This is naive and stupid. Maybe he thinks it is “The Art of the Deal,” but to me it spells his undoing. Never play ball with the devil. He needs to end the warmongering first, then deal with his agenda.

            You and and I are probably not that far apart in our thinking, Skip Scott. Cheers.

          • Skip Scott
            January 4, 2018 at 9:46 am

            Hi B.E.-

            I did a little research on his bankruptcies, 3 out of the 4 were in the 90’s. With corporate bankruptcies, his personal wealth was never at risk. I agree with you completely in that I personally feel that a debt is a debt, and anyone should feel a moral obligation to repay whenever it becomes possible. Trump has been quoted (I forget where) that he didn’t write the laws, but that they were very favorable to him. In my opinion, those are not the words of a moral person.

            I hope that I am wrong and that you are right, and that he really intends to bring back jobs and rebuild the middle class, and that he cares about average Americans, and restoring national sovereignty. But my sense of the man is that he is a sociopath.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 4, 2018 at 7:50 pm

            Skip Scott – “With corporate bankruptcies, his personal wealth was never at risk.”

            That is not good. If I had “personal wealth”, I’d make sure I paid all of my debts. I couldn’t sleep until I did. But then I’d probably be out of business pretty fast too because my competitors, who ARE going to take full advantage of the laws, wouldn’t be burdened with those costs; they just escaped them.

            And suppose I said to my financial adviser, “Yeah, but I want to make sure all of the lowly workers at least get paid.” The response back might be, “Okay, start paying off the average workers, and the rest of your wealthier creditors will start demanding you pay them too. You can’t do for one what you don’t do for the others. They’re all intertwined.”

            Now, I don’t know if the law works that way, but I wouldn’t doubt it.

            Trump is in a tough profession (real estate). With the Federal Reserve, it’s either boom or bust. As I said above, if you’re in high-end real estate, you have to play and hope you get to the end of your project before the bust. That way everybody is happy, everybody gets paid, even you. When it goes south, everybody suffers.

            We are essentially asking Trump to do the right thing, even though his banks have stopped extending credit, and even though his competitors are declaring bankruptcy too. Maybe that’s unfair? I don’t know enough about that world, thank goodness.

            You take people like the Bush’s or the Clinton’s. Their business practices are quite a bit different than Trump’s. No down side. You just get into government, control foreign policy, make sure your fruit companies crush the natives in some foreign banana republic, and go to town. Or send the armies into some country in order to enrich you and your buddies in the oil and weapons manufacturing industries.

            Millions are slaughtered in the process. Yeah, sure, some people remember what you did (people like us), but most people could care less. You can even pad your Clinton Foundation to the tune of millions in foreign bribes, and still people rush out in support.

            Stiff a worker, though, and you’re dirt.

            I’m not trying to defend Trump, but just pointing out some of the differences between his profession and the Obama’s, Clinton’s and Bush’s.

            I’m hoping Trump’s tax plan puts money in the pockets of middle-class workers. I’m still hoping he can bring jobs back, rebuild infrastructure. I’m also hoping that this ridiculous trickle-down tax plan (more stock buybacks, anyone?) is being done to entice the foreign multinationals to bring their money back from the tax havens. I’m hoping this corporate tax cut creates more jobs, but I’m not holding my breath.

            Whether Trump, Pence or my front door is in power, I’m not sure it makes any difference. I think the Congress and Senate are just gatekeepers to make sure that the wealthy stay rich, that laws are favorable to them, and nobody else really matters.

            I think Trump is tied up pretty tight as far as foreign policy. He doesn’t know history and he’s totally out of his league. Too bad. I had high hopes that he would be stopping the wars, but maybe even he can’t do much.

            Cheers, Skip.

          • Skip Scott
            January 7, 2018 at 9:29 am

            Hi B.E.-

            Thanks for your reply. I agree with you about the difficulties of business, and the immorality of the Clintons and Obama’s way to make a living. Also, like you I doubt that I could ever be cut throat enough to make it in big time real estate. But I still think that Trump is a man of low moral character, and that’s why I voted for Jill instead. I agreed with many of Trump’s campaign positions, especially on detente with Russia and infrastructure spending, but I thought that the whole “wall” thing was simple minded pandering. Mexicans would not be flooding across our border if not for our sabotaging of their economy, just as the North Africans and Middle Easterners wouldn’t be flooding Europe if not for our insane foreign policy. I don’t think that Trump is intelligent enough to see those connections, thus the xenophobia.

            As for corporate taxes, maybe I am a bit of a radical, but I don’t think corporations should pay any taxes, because I don’t think they should have any representation in government. All of that money that they are now hiding overseas could be used to pay wages and build the economy. The money would pass through to tax paying employees, and tax paying shareholders. And all those lobbyists on K street would have to find a real job. The CEO, and the guy who empties his trash can, would both be able to petition their representatives with any grievances and be heard as tax paying voters.

            Guess we’ve gotten a bit off-topic. Anyway, always good to hear from you.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 8, 2018 at 12:26 pm

            Skip Scott – last thing I’m going to say (famous last words)!

            “Mexicans would not be flooding across our border if not for our sabotaging of their economy, just as the North Africans and Middle Easterners wouldn’t be flooding Europe if not for our insane foreign policy.”

            Mexican immigration really took off around 1970. I know that Mexico got shafted after NAFTA (Mexican farmers forced off their land), but were they being shafted before NAFTA came in, or were they just coming for better jobs? (Can’t say as I blame them.)

            The Syrian refugees fled to Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq. I was surprised to read that a large percentage of the Syrians that had fled to Turkey had found jobs there and apartments to rent, and the ones remaining in refugee camps in Turkey were being enticed to head for Europe by American NGO’s. Why were the NGO’s doing that?

            The NGO’s are doing the same thing off the coast of Libya, picking up boatloads of Africans and transporting them to Italy. Who is paying for this coordinated operation? Gaddafi warned the West that this would happen if he was taken out, warned that he was the only thing that was stopping a flood of Africans into Europe, so it sounds as if this would have been happening before had Gaddafi not been there to put a lid on it.

            The reason I ask has to do with globalization, the forces behind it, their policy of continued migration (any way they can get it), the role remittances play, etc. It’s a whole study in its own right. I’ve read a lot about it, and I can tell you that there’s more to it than just some poor people escaping war (although there are many of those too). There is more going on than meets the eye. This is the face of globalization and it’s very important to the multinational corporations and the global elite.

            I totally agree that corporations have way too much power and own the politicians and, yes, lobbyists should disappear, but I’ll have to study up on corporate taxation. As my brain is now registering “full”, I’ll leave it for another few days – or years. I keep thinking that I’ll eventually start knowing how the world works, but there’s always something else to learn. LOL

            Take care, Skip Scott. You don’t need to respond. We’ll leave it at that.

      • M. L.
        January 3, 2018 at 10:04 am

        Finally, a sane comment, Mike. Thanks. Yes, either candidate was/is a catastrophe for most citizens. I am a pacifist myself, but no way was I going to vote for either horrible, arrogant plutocrat- and both Clinton and Trump deserve that moniker.

      • S Burnitt
        January 7, 2018 at 11:47 pm

        Yes, yes, yes.

        The solution is to grow your/our own platforms and candidates, shunning and ignoring the riff-raff for as many election cycles it takes to prepare. It would be cheap, interesting, complicity shedding, and the usual psychos claiming victories with 0.6% of the voting age population’s votes would know they have zero legitimacy. So called winners of these interim, no-show elections could never claim legitimacy.

        The hard part is sniffing out and giving the boot to infiltrating Stasi rats, who go homicidal when people get together in small and large groups to discuss anything that matters.

    • Abe
      January 2, 2018 at 3:16 pm

      The so-called “insurgent” campaign of Trump was a propaganda scam engineered by the pro-Israel Lobby from the very beginning.

      Trump’s has not deviated one iota from US foreign policy orthodoxy regarding Russia and Israel.

      The US President can issue executive orders cancelling the relentless demonization of Russia and terminating unconditional support for Israel with the stroke of a pen, but Trump will never do so.

      As Russia-gate fiction is progressively deconstructed, the Israel-gate reality becomes ever more despicably obvious.

      The shamelessly Israel-pandering Trump received the “Liberty Award” for his contributions to US-Israel relations at a 3 February 2015 gala hosted by The Algemeiner Journal, a New York-based newspaper, covering American and international Jewish and Israel-related news.

      “We love Israel. We will fight for Israel 100 percent, 1000 percent.”
      VIDEO minutes 2:15-8:06

      After the event, Trump did not renew his television contract for The Apprentice, which raised speculation about a Trump bid for the presidency. Trump announced his candidacy in June 2015.

      Trump’s purported break with GOP orthodoxy, questioning of Israel’s commitment to peace, calls for even treatment in Israeli-Palestinian deal-making, and refusal to call for Jerusalem to be Israel’s undivided capital, were all stage-managed for the campaign.

      Cheap theatrics notwithstanding, the Netanyahu regime in Israel has “1000 percent” support from the Trump regime.

      • mike k
        January 2, 2018 at 5:09 pm

        Thanks Abe, for helping us see through the lies of our Rulers. The Zionists are ideal chums for a Mafia bully like Trump. These are the most evil people on Earth. I challenge anyone to show me someone more evil than Netanyahoo or Trump.

        • Tannenhouser
          January 2, 2018 at 5:30 pm

          John McCain is pretty evil. Most are way more evil than trump, he hasn’t been around long enough to be more evil than say Henry Kissinger,

          • backwardsevolution
            January 2, 2018 at 6:35 pm

            Add Dick Cheney in there as well, along with Paul Wolfowitz, Hillary Clinton, and all the other neocons.

          • mike k
            January 2, 2018 at 7:01 pm

            You may be right there, Kissinger has a long proven record of evil doing. But Trump seems really precocious at evil, and I’m betting he will outdo all the big names in that dirty game. A big nuclear war would cinch it for him.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 2, 2018 at 7:36 pm

            mike k – “But Trump seems really precocious at evil, and I’m betting he will outdo all the big names in that dirty game. A big nuclear war would cinch it for him.”

            What? Trump is new. That you would put him in the same category as Netanyahu is absolutely ridiculous. And what exactly would Trump “cinch” with a big nuclear war? His own death? His reelection? His impeachment?

            No, Trump is down on his knees around the Israelis, just like every other President has been. The U.S. is owned by the Israelis, lock, stock and barrel. “How far do you want us to jump, Israel? Is this high good enough? What about this?”

            The country that’s the real threat of using nuclear weapons is Israel. That’s what they hold over everybody.

        • Abe
          January 2, 2018 at 5:40 pm

          Hyperbole and prattle about “evil” distracts from fact-based analysis of Israel-gate, the ugly swamp of Israel-linked political, economic, and criminal interests that generated the dangerous fictions of Russia-gate.

          All that “pure evil” spiel from mile k amounts to Inverted Hasbara diversion.

          No thanks. Take all your “ghouls” and “gnomes” and go piddle peddle somewhere else.

          • mike k
            January 2, 2018 at 7:15 pm

            If you think evil is nonexistent, I disagree. You are so fixated on your anti-Israel take, that anything else is a harmful diversion to you. I learn a lot from you, but I know that there are deeper issues at play than just Israel. That little fiefdom is a small issue in the larger context of human history on Earth, in which the shifting manifestations of human evil have played a central role. Sometimes in our short sighted materialist culture, we tend to ignore that there are deeper issues in our lives here than the fluctuations of politics and shifting alliances. Our success or failure to sustain our life on this planet has deeper roots than the affairs of any one, temporary set of players in this vast cosmic drama. I still respect and learn from your knowledge about the role of Israel in our escalating world crisis. I do not reject people who disagree with me.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 2, 2018 at 8:46 pm

            mike k – “…there are deeper issues at play than just Israel. That little fiefdom is a small issue in the larger context of human history on Earth…”

            That little innocent fiefdom somehow is so innocent and unassuming that nobody is allowed to talk negatively about it. It’s so unassuming that it’s given $3 billion/year by the U.S. taxpayers. It’s so innocent that every Congressman and Senator trembles with fear when Israel’s name is mentioned.

            Mike, that country (and its lobby) are not innocent when they have the power to shut down all conversation and stop all investigation.


          • Abe
            January 3, 2018 at 12:33 am

            Comrade “mike k” outs himself with the Hasbara propaganda phrase “anti-Israel take”.

            Hasbara propaganda piddle about “deeper issues at play than just Israel” is precisely a diversion when so many facts of the Russia-gate imbroglio lead directly back to Israel.

            For example, those Russian Jewish Mafia chums of Trump are dual-citizen Israelis.

            Hasbara troll army posters alternate between the Conventional Hasbara (pro-Israel / pro-Zionist) propaganda line that the “little fiefdom is a small issue” to the Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist”) propaganda notion that the “Zionists” are “the most evil people on Earth”.

            Comrade “mike k” is a Hasbara switch hitter who swings from “disagree” to “agree” while bloviating about “deeper issues”.

            Speaking of deeper “evil” and those darn “fluctuations of politics and shifting alliances” the Hasbara trolls prefer we ignore, the Israeli-Saudi-US Axis of Evil is busy ginning up its next war in the Middle East.

            Iran, Syria and Lebanon are the immediate targets.

            But comrade “mike k” here would really rather we not “fixate” on “the affairs of any one, temporary set of players in this vast cosmic drama”.

            Hasbara hilarity ensues.

          • Skip Scott
            January 3, 2018 at 10:23 am


            You are one of the commenters here that I always learn from, but I think you’ve gone around the bend recently with the whole “Hasbara trolls” thing. mike k is a very valuable commenter here, and obviously a deeply spiritual person as well. In my opinion, he is not a Zionist troll. I am sure that there really is a Hasbara propaganda operation, but some of your accusations are bordering on McCarthyism. Please don’t stop educating us on IsraelGate, but please stop the personal attacks.

          • Abe
            January 3, 2018 at 3:09 pm

            Thanks for sharing, Skip.

            McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion without proper regard for evidence.

            Every instance of a poster’s contribution being identified as Hasbara propaganda is presented with reference to specifics.

            This is no Hasbara “witch hunt”, or mere personal “fixation”, or “insanity”, or some “anti-Israel” brand of “McCarthyism”.

            This is addressing the reality that a foreign power (Israel) and its political and media lobby (pro-Israel Lobby) are making every effort to suppress information that threatens their influence.

            The Hasbara troll army online specifically targets Consortium News and other independent investigative journalism sites that present fact-based information and critical analysis of Israeli government actions and the workings of the pro-Israel Lobby.

            Hasbara is the specific identification of efforts to distract, dilute, divert, and disrupt discussion of Israeli government actions or pro-Israel Lobby influence on American elections and foreign policy.

            Israel-gate is the reality of Israeli government and pro-Israel Lobby interference that is increasingly evident beneath the lies and fictions of Russia-gate.

            With reference to the posts by “mike k”, specific remarks are cited that clearly indicate effort to distract (focus attention somewhere else), dilute (minimize and generalize the issue) and divert (redirect discussion) from the reality of Israel-gate to generalized “spiritual” matters.

            Since the focus of the article above is Russia-gate, which is rapidly emerging as Israel-gate, then such remarks by “mike k” function as Hasbara propaganda.

            In effect, “mike k” is trolling the article with numerous comments that distract, dilute, and divert discussion from the topic of Israeli government and pro-Israel Lobby interference.

            Trolling requires deception. However, it’s nearly impossible to determine the actual identity of a poster on the internet. Trolls manipulate the psychological tendency to presume identity.

            So how is it possible to identify deception?

            By paying attention to the evidence what is posted and whether it aligns with facts, not some presumed “personal” identity or one’s own “personal” preference (what one “agrees” or “disagrees” with).

            Propaganda trolls generally avoid verifiable facts. The trolls usually spew some form of conjecture, mere “opinion”, or “conspiracy theory” (note the 9/11 talk that has been inserted into the discussion).

            Facts about Israel and the pro-Israel Lobby are “around the bend” in the “opinion” of the Hasbara troll army.

            Identifying propaganda deception has nothing to do with fact-free “accusations” or “personal attacks” or “rejecting people who disagree” or “McCarthyism”.

            Like our “valuable commenter here”, Hasbara trolls frequently declare how much they love to “learn”.

            But their “opinions” consistently display a resolute aversion to the facts about Israel and the pro-Israel Lobby, and a remarkable effort to distract, dilute, and divert discussion of those important facts.

            Of course, the Hasbara troll army views any and all public education about Hasbara propaganda as an “anti-Israel” deadly “attack”.

            In summary, the evidence of Russia-gate is still missing while the evidence of Israel-gate is increasing buy the day. That’s why there’s been media backpedaling on Russia-gate.

            All fact-based responses concerning the identification of Hasbara propaganda online, in this instance or any other, are most welcome. Thanks again, Skip.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 3, 2018 at 4:55 pm

            Skip Scott – “mike k is a very valuable commenter here, and obviously a deeply spiritual person as well.”

            I don’t buy the “deeply spiritual” part at all, but it sells well to the lay person. It does not jive with what he has posted on occasion. It does not jive with how a truly spiritual person would act and speak.

            In fact, other than today, this particular topic is probably the last time we had a back-and-forth between us. I called him on his so-called “spiritual” nature when he showed outright hatred. A spiritual person would not exhibit this behavior.

            mike k was also (for awhile) completely nihilistic and speaking about how it will be a good thing when the world ends. He made comments along the lines of “the world will soon be over”. Again, not something that a spiritual person would say. As I had already suspected him of being an Israeli troll, I remember wondering at the time whether he wasn’t from that particular Christian sect that believes that the Jews must return to the homeland before the world ends. It was at least a fleeting thought in my mind.

            I am well-read on spirituality, psychology. mike k is about as spiritual as a doorknob. (See my comments towards the bottom of this post where I actually agree with Abe. I have felt this way about mike k for about a year now).

          • backwardsevolution
            January 3, 2018 at 6:22 pm

            Abe – see my comments towards the bottom of the “Comments” section. For about a year now I have thought that mike k was an Israeli troll.

          • Abe
            January 3, 2018 at 7:12 pm

            Hilarious. The Hasbara trolls are outing each other now.

            Comrade “mike k” never used the word “innocent”.

            Comrade “backwardsevolution” used the phrase “Israeli troll”, an inaccurate term that has never been used to identify the numerous Hasbara troll army posters at CN.

            The Hasbara troll army actively recruits online propaganda posters from the United States, UK, and other countries than Israel.

            Thus the phrase “Israeli troll” is not a factually accurate term.

            The melodramatic li’l Hasbara cage match between “mike k” and “backwardsevolution” has been manufactured to disrupt the discussion of Israel-gate, the reality behind all the Russia-gate fictions.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 3, 2018 at 7:37 pm

            Abe – “Comrade ‘mike k’ never used the word ‘innocent’.”

            No, and I apologized to him right away (see my apology).

    • Joe Tedesky
      January 2, 2018 at 5:13 pm

      From one voting citizen to the next, I just want to remind everyone, that this past 2016 presidential election was an election with very little wiggle room for when it came to making a coalescing choice. In fact, this past election for U.S. President is a classic example of the worst of the worst for when it comes to voting for the candidate of the lessor of the two evils. It just doesn’t matter to who you vote for, when all the candidates are that painfully bad.

      I actually believe that if Hillary were now our 45th President that very little on the geopolitical stage would be that much different. Hillary may have been representative of what appears to be excepted as being liberal in the U.S., as when it comes to her politics domestically, but I see very little difference between Trump’s foreign policies and her warmongering campaign rants. I mean, we don’t at this moment have a very warm relationship with Putin, so what else may have been different on the international front with Hillary in charge? Not much.

      • Tannenhouser
        January 2, 2018 at 5:44 pm

        Precisely Joe. Well said. There is no difference between the two. Not voting is the worst choice IMO. I’m not even sure I believe the deplorable narrative any longer. I think it was trump the whole way. The whole purpose was to divide Americans even further along even more noticeable lines. It worked, can barely even have a political conversation in person in the country anymore. Meanwhile a phantom junta has taken over, and both sides spew lies posited as truths at each other.

        • Joe Tedesky
          January 2, 2018 at 5:55 pm

          While I agree with you Tannenhouser for the most part, I also wish we voters would not show up in mass, and not give any legitimatize to their election farce. Joe

    • SteveK9
      January 2, 2018 at 9:01 pm

      Perfectly stated. Should have read your comment before posting my own.

  7. Matt Rubenstein
    January 2, 2018 at 11:30 am

    You have to be and/or have been seriously deluded to ever have considered Trump a “proxy for insurgents“–whatever that means exactly. If it means that disaffected but (very) naive people thought that merely being a loud-mouthed “outsider“ meant he might turn out better than the predictably terrible Clinton, OK, at least you can sort of forgive people’s ignorance and naivety. But anybody who knew just a fraction of what Trump really stood for also knew that he’d be a hell of a lot worse even than Clinton. Now, after a year of robber-baron hyper-oligarchy and mean-spirited militarism–not to mention insane disregard for the looming climate catastrophe–any view of Trump as anything but a world-historic disaster is just wacko; or it betrays a yearning for outright fascism. The original fascists also saw themselves as “revolutionaries.“

    • mike k
      January 2, 2018 at 12:46 pm

      Amen, Matt. You have got it exactly right. Trump apologists are muddle headed in extremis.

      • irina
        January 2, 2018 at 2:25 pm

        And Clinton apologists just don’t get that some of us simply couldn’t stomach the thought of putting the Bush-Clinton
        cabal back in direct power, which they had been pretty much constantly from at least 1982 to 2013.
        (George H.W. as VP — actually defacto president — under Raygun and then as Pres. followed by Bubba
        followed by Bush the Lesser followed by Hillary as Sec. of State . . . )

        And how a woman could run on a ‘feminist’ platform with that horrible video clip of HerSelf celebrating the death
        by knifing sodomy of Gadhaffi is completely beyond comprehension. I didn’t vote for either Major Candidate, but
        that video was, in my opinion, far worse than the ‘grab em audio tape’ featuring Billy (another !) Bush and
        The Donald.

        • glitch
          January 2, 2018 at 3:30 pm

          Also well said.

        • Linda Wood
          January 3, 2018 at 3:16 pm

          So well said, irina.

    • Tannenhouser
      January 2, 2018 at 5:23 pm

      Nice one Matt, even better mike k. I’d just like to point out that the ‘original fascists’, whatever that means, also belittled and called their opponents ignorant and deluded. Turns out they weren’t. What’s that about stones and glass houses?

  8. mike k
    January 2, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    “Oh what a angled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.” The “intelligence community” is basically a gathering of spies and liars. Dishonesty is their game, and distrust and betrayal of all higher human values is their product. That there is some kind of honor or trustworthiness in this group is a laughable and stupid mistake. These are the worst of the worst. These gnomes work at the deep bases of our nightmare world of human ill will. They have long ago sold their souls to violence, lying, and evil. To be awake is to see these ghouls for what they are. To trust them in any way is a fatal error that will suck you into the ugly swamp they inhabit. Like their politician and militarist allies, these people are pure evil with no redeeming qualities whatever, their phony pretensions notwithstanding

    • mike k
      January 2, 2018 at 5:11 pm

      OOps. Should read tangled.

  9. Nancy
    January 2, 2018 at 1:01 pm

    The real target is “evil Russia” Communist or not, and China too while they’re at it. Can’t have anyone challenging the supremacy of the United States and its lackeys in controlling all the people and resources on the planet.

    • mike k
      January 2, 2018 at 5:15 pm

      The most evil call everyone else evil. If we are the white hope of the world, then everyone else must be darkest evil. Human psychology is so transparent, so stupid………

  10. backwardsevolution
    January 2, 2018 at 7:18 pm

    The phony Steele dossier (paid for by the DNC, and perhaps even the FBI?), apparently necessitating the phony FISA warrants to spy on Trump and associates, Comey leaking classified documents in order to ensure a special counsel is appointed, Peter Strzok’s FBI “insurance policy” against Trump – the hornet’s nest is starting to break open now.

    “As I noted in an editorial last week, President Donald Trump has only one viable option to repel the partisan lynch mob now nipping at his heels in the form of a taxpayer-funded pack of legal hyenas, masquerading as objective prosecutors under the droopy eyes of old reliable deep state hatchet man Robert Swan Mueller III, the special counsel appointed to “investigate” the Clinton-Podesta-Schiff-Democrat Party-Corporate Media fabricated Russia collusion delusion.”

    The author calls for the firing of Robert Mueller, which I think Trump would be foolish to do. He SHOULD have called for a special investigation as soon as he took office. It’s too late now.

    “Let’s not forget what Donald Trump said to Hillary Clinton and the entire nation in a televised presidential debate on October 9, 2016:

    “I’ll tell you what. I didn’t think I’d say this, but I’m going to say it, and I hate to say it. But if I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation, because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. There has never been anything like it, and we’re going to have a special prosecutor.”

    After his election, Donald Trump chose to be magnanimous and forward-looking rather than follow-through on his words and appoint that special prosecutor. Trump naively thought he could commence his presidency free from the tentacles of his seething, embittered dragon lady of an opponent.

    Donald Trump genuinely did not want his presidency tangled up with the Clinton stain. He knew this would be impossible to avoid were he to see to the much-deserved prosecution of Hillary Clinton and her extensive syndicate of cohorts, cronies, flunkies and fellow travelers, including the likes of Mueller and Rosenstein, for their countless crimes and endless scandals.

    Unfortunately for him, they gave him his “special prosecutor.” And now this prosecutor is ruthlessly and illegitimately driving towards nothing less than a coup d’etat, ending with Donald Trump’s being removed from his duly-elected office.”

    Naive. Trump thought if he was nice, they’d back off him. Mistake. Maybe if he played nice and acted all warmonger-like, they’d let him be. Not! It doesn’t matter, though, as it’s all coming out now, anyway. They will all be behind bars.

  11. mike k
    January 2, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    Dear backwardsevolution, I did not say anything about Israel being innocent. In fact I believe them to be in their behavior deeply evil and corrupt, and a great danger to the world. Please try not to read things into comments that are not there? (I could not append this to your comment on this thread, because the reply button was absent.) We all make mistakes, so I have no hard feeling towards you, or indeed anyone who disagrees with me. I welcome criticism and learn from it.

    • backwardsevolution
      January 2, 2018 at 9:25 pm

      mike k – you are absolutely right, you did not use the word “innocent”. Sorry, Mike. What you said was:

      “…there are deeper issues at play than just Israel. That little fiefdom is a small issue in the larger context of human history on Earth…”

      I guess I just don’t see Israel as being a “small issue”. I think they are THE issue. They own the U.S. That must end.

      Thanks, Mike.

    • Drogon
      January 2, 2018 at 9:26 pm

      @mike k: backwardsevolution is a well-known Trump apologist who routinely “misinterprets” comments and engages in ad hominem attacks. My advice: don’t engage with him.

      • backwardsevolution
        January 2, 2018 at 9:27 pm

        Drogon – and you are a wanna-be impeacher in search of a reason.

        • mike k
          January 3, 2018 at 8:51 am

          Although I appreciate Drogon’s advice about avoiding debate with trolls, I like to reserve labeling a poster a troll except for extreme and repetitive nonsense or unnecessary ad hominem insults. The temptation to name anyone a troll who disagrees with me is one I try to resist.

          I put my name on the current petition to have Trump impeached, but not for the spurious Russiagate nonsense some democrats are espousing. There are plenty of good reasons to impeach this man. His finger on the nuclear button, and power over many other crucial government concerns is a threat to all humans on Earth. Impeachment is a carefully constructed legal avenue to remove a menace like Trump. It may or may not work, but it is a legitimate possibility within our form of government. In my opinion it is definitely worth a try. Even if it fails, it might send a message to the Donald that he lacks significant public support to do as he pleases with the enormous powers for good or ill possessed by the USA. To give this unstable character free rein to do as he pleases with his office would be to open the door for a dangerous military dictatorship that the US is already well on it’s way to becoming.

          • Linda Wood
            January 3, 2018 at 3:34 pm

            But no one should have their finger on the nuclear button. No one. Not even the pope. Not even a person who may have deserved the Nobel Peace Prize. Not even Barbara Lee, whom I voted for for president. No one. It’s the nuclear button that needs to be removed.

            It’s legal for Donald Trump to have his finger on the nuclear button because the Electoral College legally elected him president. That doesn’t mean he’s crazy. It doesn’t mean he should be impeached. If he’s provably crazy, then he should be impeached for being crazy. But then Pence would have his finger on the nuclear button. Yikes. It’s our military industrial Mafia ruling with no humanity that’s crazy. Impeaching Trump does not change that.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 3, 2018 at 5:23 pm

            Linda Wood – “But no one should have their finger on the nuclear button. No one.” Linda, I remember expressing similar words until one day someone pointed out the procedure that has to be gone through before anyone gets their finger on the “nuclear button”. It’s not like someone just walks over and pushes a button. There is much more to it than that.

            I did read up on it at the time, but right now can’t remember exactly what was said. Do a bit of research.

            But I too am disgusted that these nuclear devices even exist. I think the whole world, no matter what side of the political aisle people are on, could get together on this: the complete removal of all nuclear weapons.

            Thanks, Linda.

  12. January 2, 2018 at 9:22 pm

    I wonder if the same influences of the Russiagate hoax plan on interfering in the upcoming Russian elections, in which Pres. Putin us heavily favored?

  13. Drogon
    January 2, 2018 at 9:22 pm

    I completely agree that the whole Russia-gate hysteria is a nothingburger cooked up by the MSM to excuse Clinton’s inability to defeat the worst presidential candidate in history. But the following tweet from Trump pushes me ever closer to the camp that believes he needs to be removed from office by any means necessary. At the very least, congress needs to reaffirm Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution and declare that NO president has the right to initiate a preemptive nuclear strike.

    • Linda Wood
      January 3, 2018 at 3:40 pm


  14. mike k
    January 3, 2018 at 10:12 am

    Abe, your hasbara paranoia has got you seeing anyone who questions you as an Israeli agent. I have made it completely clear the contempt that I hold the Zionists in, and my awareness of their malign role in the policies of the US. Perhaps I have failed to satisfy some unstated loyalty oath to your ideas I was unaware of? Get a grip and refocus your fire on those who deserve it.

    Most of what you write about Israel I am in total agreement with. Ah, but there’s the rub! You want me to COMPLETELY agree with all you say. Sorry Abe, but I an unable to comply. And btw I don’t make enemies, I leave that to others, as they may……

    • mike k
      January 3, 2018 at 10:29 am

      Should read “I AM unable to comply.”

    • Abe
      January 3, 2018 at 4:56 pm

      Comrade “mike k” never used the word “innocent”.

      And the phrase “Israeli troll” used by “backwardevolution” has not been used to identify Hasbara troll army posters at CN.

      The Hasbara troll army actively recruits online propaganda posters from the United States, UK, and other countries.

      Hasbara propaganda troll posters on English language internet sites typically are not Israelis. For example, American Jewish college students are recruited for Hasbara propaganda activities on campus and the internet.

      Thus the phrase “Israeli troll” is not a factually accurate term.

      Hasbara propaganda is active distraction, dilution, and diversion from fact-based discussion of Israeli government and pro-Israel Lobby activities.

      Identifying Hasbara propaganda has nothing to do with appeals to personal sentiments such as “it made complete sense”, “I was certain”, “call it intuition”, “feeling quite sure in my mind” or “I don’t think I’m wrong”.

      Identifying Hasbara propaganda has nothing to do with “just subtle remarks” a poster “made or ‘didn’t make'”.

      Identifying Hasbara propaganda has nothing to do with subjective “opinion”, “agreement” or “disagreement”, or some sort of ad hominem personal “attack”.

      Identifying Hasbara propaganda requires fact-based examination.

      So all the nonsense here from “backwardevolution” and “mike k” can be rejected on its face.

      • backwardsevolution
        January 3, 2018 at 7:05 pm

        Abe – I am not an expert. I don’t know what to look for in an Israeli troll (my definition). All I know is I have taken exception to similar statements mike k has made in the past and either called him on them, or just mentally taken note of what he has said. It was the accumulation of such statements that led me to my beliefs.

        It would have been more appropriate for me to have used the word “deduction” instead of “intuition” because deduction is exactly what it was. It is how my mind works.

        For the past year, in my mind I have thought that mike k was an Israeli troll/Israeli sympathizer who was trying to get people to believe that he was against Israel when he was actually for them.

        That’s what I thought and, goddammit, I’m sticking to it. I don’t care whether you think I went about it the wrong way or not. My deductive reasoning told me I was right. :)

      • Abe
        January 3, 2018 at 7:36 pm

        Identifying Hasbara propaganda has nothing to do with ridiculous name calling using obviously inaccurate terms like (from comrade “mike k”) “Israeli agent” and (from comrade “backwardsevolution”) “Israeli troll”.

        The fact is that a great many Hasbara propaganda trolls are not Israelis, but Americans and other nationalities recruited to “defend Israel” with online propaganda.

        Identifying Hasbara propaganda has nothing to do with personally “taking exception”, or fact-free subjective sentiments like “in my mind I have thought” and “goddammit, I’m sticking to it”.

        Identifying Hasbara propaganda requires fact-based examination.

        So all the inaccurate name calling, irrational obfuscating static, and hilarious Hasbara ‘splainin’ from both “backwardevolution” and “mike k” can be rejected on its face.

        • January 11, 2018 at 10:57 am

          Recruited by whom,Abe?

          -Askingf for a hasbera friend.

  15. mike k
    January 3, 2018 at 10:24 am

    And to you backwardsevolution, I am tired of your intentional distorting of my words, and do not feel it is worthwhile to get in a game of justifying myself to you. Your remarks have no bearing on what I have written here, and I will ignore them in the future. It is aggravating and disturbing to have to deal with the obfuscating static that exists, even on a relatively sane site such as CN, but that is the reality one wishing to share in serious conversation must put up with. But some of this stuff is better dealt with by silence, than getting entangled in meaningless diversions. Henceforth you are on my very short troll list, and I will not respond to you further.

    • backwardsevolution
      January 3, 2018 at 3:54 pm

      mike k – mike, I very rarely say anything to you. Yes, I used to, but for quite a long time now (months and months) I have just ignored you. On several occasions (not often) you have responded to my posts, but I have not taken the bait or responded back. Most of the time I don’t even read your comments. We have not had a back and forth conversation for a very long time now.

      I made an exception today and responded to your comment about Israel being a “small issue”. When I used the word “innocent”, you corrected me, and I then apologized. That’s been the extent of our involvement.

      I don’t know Hasbara from a hole in the ground, but when I read what Abe stated above, it made complete sense to me. For a long time now I too have suspected that you were an Israeli troll, paid or otherwise. This feeling is why I have not bothered responding to you. I was certain of it, and it wasn’t from anything blatant you said, more from just subtle remarks you made or “didn’t make”. Call it intuition with some evidence to back it up, but I would actually put money on it. There is only one other person on this board (a frequent commenter) that I feel the same way about.

      So you might be “tired of your intentional distorting of my words”, but if you are honest (other than today), you would acknowledge that that is not what’s been happening at all. I have purposely not responded to our posts, feeling quite sure in my mind that you were an Israeli troll. There may have been the odd time that I have deviated from this practice, but it’s not very often.

      I have said nothing about this to you or anyone else, that is until Abe noticed and pointed out what I had sensed for at least a year now. Every single time I saw your name, I thought “Israeli troll”. I don’t think I’m wrong.

    • Abe
      January 3, 2018 at 6:39 pm

      The phrase “Israeli agent” used by “mike k” has not been used to identify Hasbara troll army posters at CN.

      The Hasbara troll army online includes both non-Israelis and Israelis, some operating as paid agents while others are volunteers who have either been actively recruited or post propaganda on their own initiative.

      Thus the phrase “Israeli agent” is not a factually accurate term for Hasbara propaganda trolls.

      Hasbara propaganda is meant to generate obfuscating static: an active distraction, dilution, and diversion from fact-based discussion of Israeli government and pro-Israel Lobby activities.

      Conventional Hasbara (pro-Israel / pro-Zionist) propaganda is accompanied by Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist”) propaganda that loudly make “completely clear” a deceptive “contempt” for “the Zionists”.

      Comrade “mike k” insists that dissatisfaction with his “spiritual” spiel must be due to “paranoia” based on some lack of “total agreement”.

      But identifying Hasbara propaganda has nothing to do with “agreement” or “disagreement”, or any “game of justifying”.

      Meaningless diversions are thrown up by both Conventional Hasbara and inverted Hasbara propaganda trolls here at CN in order to distract readers from the reality of Israel-gate.

      The hilarious Hasbara ballet of comrades “mike k” and “backwardevolution” here presents an obsfuscating static case in point.

      • backwardsevolution
        January 3, 2018 at 7:22 pm

        Abe – are you insinuating that I (comrade backwardsevolution) am a Hasbara troll as well? If you are, then LMAO, that would be a nice stick save for mike k.

        I call him out for saying Israel is a “small issue”, and then you run in and accuse him of being a Hasbara troll (whatever that is). I speak up and say that I’ve thought this way for about a year (that mike k was an Israeli troll/sympathizer who was only pretending to dislike Israel, and that’s why I hardly ever responded to his posts). It is a strong belief I had, based on mike k’s occasional slip-ups. I arrived at this conclusion through a process of deduction (as I always do).

        Next thing I know I’m being called “comrade backwardsevolution”.

        Who’s on first?

        Who am I, Abe? What are you getting at?

        • backwardsevolution
          January 3, 2018 at 7:59 pm

          Abe – where is your evidence with me? I’d like to have it. And don’t just tell me that it’s because I have been strongly against Israel. That’s not going to wash. And don’t say it’s because I used the word “innocent” (then apologized), and also don’t say it’s because I used the word “troll” (as many people do).

          I’ve seen behind mike k’s sympathy towards Israel on a few occasions, and I pointed this out. It is why I haven’t responded to his comments (not usually). I do not find him a credible denouncer of Israel, just a pretend denouncer.

          Please provide the evidence with me. I’d like to order up some New Year’s outfits and want to know whether I should order khaki or not.

        • Abe
          January 3, 2018 at 8:32 pm

          Definitely not “insinuating”.

          First, all that “pure evil” spiel from “mile k” was identified as Inverted Hasbara diversion (January 2, 2018 at 5:40 pm).

          Then “mike k” responded with more Hasbara ‘splainin’ about how that “little fiefdom is a small issue” (January 2, 2018 at 7:15 pm)

          Then “backwardsevolution” ran in with the “innocent” (January 2, 2018 at 8:46 pm) distortion of the “mike k” remark.

          Then “mike k” and “backwardsevolution” were both trolling hard and fast.

          Comrade “mike k” used the inaccurate phrase “Israeli agent” while comrade “backwardsevolution” used the inaccurate phrase “Israeli troll”.

          Both inaccurate terms obfuscate the reality of Hasbara propaganda online involves more than just Israelis.

          In fact, the Hasbara troll army online includes Jewish Americans and other nationalities recruited for Hasbara propaganda activities.

          Perhaps the most hilarious Hasbara trolls declaration is they “don’t know Hasbara from a hole in the ground”. The Hasbara troll army vomits up loud “skepticism” whenever one of their comrades is called out.

          A more recent propaganda tactic, impressively demonstrated by “backwardsevolution” and “mike k” here, is for one Hasbara troll to runs in and loudly denounce a fellow Hasbara troll that already has been exposed.

          Thanks, guys. You’re providing us with quite an education in Hasbara propaganda tactics.

          Keep it up, comrades.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 3, 2018 at 9:24 pm

            Abe – “…is for one Hasbara troll to run in and loudly denounce a fellow Hasbara troll that already has been exposed.”

            Who’s on first, Abe? Where’s your evidence? For all we know, YOU brought the runner (mike k) around to home plate. I believe “I” was the one who exposed mike k’s statement first:

            “…there are deeper issues at play than just Israel. That little fiefdom is a small issue in the larger context of human history on Earth…”

            You then swooped in and “loudly denounced” him AFTER I had called him out.

            Who’s on third? Second?

            I’m sticking with my facts:

            I used to respond to mike k, but stopped doing so when I realized (because of a few slip-ups he made) that he only pretended to dislike Israel. In my mind, he is an Israeli sympathizer/troll, paid or otherwise.

            I do not buy into his “spirituality” at all. From various comments he has made, it does not add up. Spiritual people do not use the words that mike k has used.

            I rarely read his posts.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 3, 2018 at 9:43 pm

            Abe – where is your evidence? Make an accusation, be prepared to back it up. Evidence, please.

          • Abe
            January 3, 2018 at 10:29 pm

            The evidence is perfectly clear in the comment sequence:

            1) Abe (January 2, 2018 at 5:40 pm) “All that “pure evil” spiel from mile k amounts to Inverted Hasbara diversion.”

            2) “mike k” (January 2, 2018 at 7:15 pm) “little fiefdom is a small issue”

            3) “backwardsevolution” (January 2, 2018 at 8:46 pm) “innocent little fiefdom” distortion of the “mike k” remark.

            4) Then it was off to the Hasbara races: comrade “mike k” started spouting the inaccurate phrase “Israeli agent” and comrade “backwardsevolution” spewed the inaccurate phrase “Israeli troll”.

            The evidence: First I called out “mike k”. Then “backwardsevolution” ran in and tried to play it with distortion. Hasbara hilarity ensued.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 3, 2018 at 11:17 pm

            Abe – well, I gave you a chance and you have provided no evidence. Very interesting that you would turn it around on me, though, in order to save mike k. I will remember that.

          • Abe
            January 3, 2018 at 11:48 pm

            We all can clearly observe how Inverted Hasbara troll “backwardsevolution” rejects easily verified factual evidence.

            The evidence: the comment sequence (CN comments are date and time stamped) and direct quotations.

            We got you, comrade “backwardsevolution”.

            No doubt you’ll “keep sticking with” those alternative Hasbara “facts” you “believe” in. We all will remember that.

          • backwardsevolution
            January 4, 2018 at 5:11 am

            Abe – you are free to believe anything you want, Abe. Personally, I think your panties are on too tight.

            At least I now know what a “witch hunt” feels like.


          • Abe
            January 8, 2018 at 6:40 pm

            A little while ago, comrade “backwardsevolution” was loudly denouncing “mike k” as a “witch” (an “Israeli troll”).

            Now “backwardsevolution” loudly complains that he’s an innocent victim of a “witch hunt”.

            Hilarity ensues.

            Pretty soon “backwardsevolution” and “mike k” will be loudly “agreeing” with each other.

            So here’s the reality:

            Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist” propaganda trolls will typically pose as a loud “denouncer of Israel” while embedding posts with excessive rhetoric and factual inaccuracies.

            But fact-based analysis of Israeli government or pro-Israel Lobby activity has absolutely nothing to do with being some sort of “denouncer of Israel” (as comrade “backwardsevolution” claims) or some “anti-Israel take” (as comrade “mike k” asserted).

            So it very appears that the loud melodrama between “backwardsevolution” and “mike k” was an effort to portray the whole matter of Hasbara propaganda as some sort of “witch hunt” or “McCarthyism” (as Skip Scott” further claimed).

            McCarthyite tactics have clearly been employed in the Russia-gate accusations. However, investigation of the facts has revealed the reality of Israel-gate.

            With the emergence of Israel-gate, Hasbara propaganda has shifted into overdrive to direct attention away from Israeli government and pro-Israel Lobby involvement in the affair.

            Both Conventional Hasbara (overtly pro-Israel / pro-Zionist) and Inverted Hasbara (false flag “anti-Israel” / “anti-Zionist”, often including fake “anti-Jewish” / “anti-Semitic”) propaganda trolls have been outed at CN in recent months.

            Suddenly we have a gaggle of “denouncers of Israel” spouting lots of excessive rhetoric, spewing all kinds of factual inaccuracies, basically going out of their way to manufacture a loud melodramatic dustup that casts the whole matter of Hasbara propaganda into doubt.

            But identifying online Hasbara propaganda isn’t a silly “witch hunt” or some inquisitional “McCarthyism”.

            The trolls are utterly desperate to spin the issue, to trivialize and obfuscate the reality of online Hasbara propaganda.

            Hasbara trolls count on a “just ignore the trolls” attitude that allows political propaganda to pass and damaging disinformation to disperse unchallenged.

            But readers of independent investigative journalism sites like CN are alert to such tactics. Excessive rhetoric, factual inaccuracies, and Hasbara propaganda will be challenged here.

  16. January 3, 2018 at 1:33 pm

    Dennis Bernstein has lost the plot. No wonder Pacifica is in the toilet financially. He joins a long list of delusional leftists who feel defensive when it comes to defending Russia, which is not remotely Leftist any more — if it ever was. Ask Pussy Riot how they feel about the oligarchic/repressive scum that rule that country. Do we still believe Assange? He has shown himself to be the willing servent of fascists.

    • Skip Scott
      January 3, 2018 at 2:23 pm

      I think you should ask yourself how a man so evil as Putin can have and 80+ pct. approval rating inside his own country. You are a useful idiot for the intelligence agencies and the DNC if you believe them over Julian Assange. Pussy Riot danced on the altar of a church. How do you think the congregation felt about that? If you want to check out some oligarchic repressive scum, you need not look any further than Washington DC. Both sides of the isle are full of them.

      If you want to give someone a fair shake, you should judge them by their own words and deeds. Try reading Putin’s speeches and interviews, and watching the Oliver Stone Putin interviews, and then weigh that against what our MSM types like Rachel Madcow spew out daily.

      • Thomas
        January 3, 2018 at 3:49 pm

        If you think Putin earned his 80% approval rating fairly, then you know nothing about current-day Russia.

        • Gregory Herr
          January 3, 2018 at 9:38 pm

          Smug declarations without an iota of explanation or evidence don’t pass muster Thomas. Can’t you do better than this?
          Sources I respect who have travelled in “current-day Russia” tell me people there speak their minds quite freely. And objective criteria comparing Russia today from Russia in 2000 would indicate plausibility for a high approval rating for Putin. Of course particular polls can be skewed–in Russia, America, or anywhere else. Why does this poll strike you as “unfair”? Care to deem us worthy of a little exposition of your “knowledge”? ….or do you know nothing?

    • Abe
      January 3, 2018 at 4:09 pm

      The Pussy Riot political provocateurs made it clear they want oligarch scum Mikhail Khodorkovsky to rule that country

      Immediately after their release from prison, Nadezhda Tolokonnikova and Maria Alyokhina were hosted by an opposition television channel that touted them as figures of national importance.

      Tolokonnikova said she wanted Khodorkovsky, who was also released under a pardon from Putin, to run for president.

      “I would very much like to invite Mikhail Borisovich to this post,” referring to the Russian Jewish oligarch Khodorkovsky, who had spent more than a decade in jail, by his first name and patronymic.

      “I am in solidarity with that,” added Alyokhina.

      In February 2012, several members of Pussy Riot jumped around the altar of the Christ the Saviour Cathedral in Moscow and attempted to sing what they called a “punk prayer” calling on the Virgin Mary to “drive Putin out.”

      After a stunt, three of the five provocateurs: Tolokonnikova, Alyokhina and Yekaterina Samutsevich, were identified and arrested. In August 2012, they were found guilty on charges of hooliganism motivated by religious hatred.

      Samutsevich was released in October after being given a suspended sentence, but a Moscow city court upheld on appeal the two-year prison terms for Tolokonnikova and Alyokhina.

      Overall Russian opinion was for the most part negative or indifferent. Many Russians were outraged by Pussy Riot’s church stunt and supported “the right of the majority to worship in peace”.

      The Soviet government had destroyed the Christ the Savior Cathedral in the 1930s (it was rebuilt in the 1990s), adding to the church’s significance.

      In 2013, the Pussy Riot members were released two months early from their two-year prison terms came after an amnesty backed by Putin.

  17. Thomas
    January 3, 2018 at 3:48 pm

    Anyone who voted for Trump without being either a Nazi or a billionaire (or a Nazi billionaire) is automatically suspect as insane or a troll. Makes it hard to take anything else he says seriously.

    • backwardsevolution
      January 3, 2018 at 5:14 pm

      Thomas – since there are very few billionaires, and even fewer Nazis, that must mean you think over 1/3 of the country is just insane?

      Trump will be proven right about a lot of things in short order. He wasn’t wrong about being “wiretapped” by the Obama administration, even though everyone called him insane for saying it. He wasn’t wrong about Comey, who actually exonerated Hillary Clinton BEFORE she was even interviewed by the FBI. He hasn’t been wrong in calling out the media for biased reporting, as something like 90% of their coverage has been anti-Trump.

      Trump won’t need to drain the Swamp. It’s doing the job all by itself.

  18. Skip Scott
    January 4, 2018 at 9:57 am

    mike k, Abe, and B.E.-

    I am dismayed that our comment section has devolved to personal attacks and bickering among three of the folks I have thought of as internet friends. I am old enough to know that I am powerless to “fix” it. I can only hope that you respect my wish to remain cordial with each of you. I think my only reasonable course of action is to refrain from making any alliances. My best wishes to you all.

    • Abe
      January 4, 2018 at 3:38 pm

      At this critical time, when a catastrophic new war Middle East war appears imminent, it is vitally necessary to be watchful for Hasbara troll disinformation and distortion in our comments section.

      Our “dismayed” poster “Skip Scott” here proclaims that this Hasbara propaganda stuff is “around the bend”.

      “Skip” implores us to ignore the reality of Hasbara trolls in the comments section here at CN.

      Israel-gate is the reality of Israeli government and pro-Israel Lobby interference that is increasingly evident beneath the lies and fictions of Russia-gate.

      The ongoing investigation of Israel-gate has brought Hasbara propaganda trolls out in force on the internet.

      Hasbara propaganda is designed to distract, dilute, divert, and disrupt discussion of Israeli government actions or pro-Israel Lobby influence on American elections and foreign policy.

      The Hasbara troll army online specifically targets Consortium News and other independent investigative journalism sites that present fact-based information and critical analysis of Israeli government actions and the workings of the pro-Israel Lobby.

      During recent months, several Hasbara trolls have been outed here at CN.

      In every one of these instances, the trolls were clearly identified with reference to specific facts.

      No doubt dismayed that their ranks are dwindling at CN, and with Israel-gate breaking out the Hasbara trolls have been increasingly on the offensive.

      The latest Hasbara troll propaganda line to “fix” the problem is:

      “Hasbara propaganda does not exist. There are no trolls at CN, just people who ‘disagree’ in some way”.

      The desperate Hasbara trolls loudly portray their outing a mere personal “fixation”, some form of “insanity”, or an “anti-Israel” brand of “McCarthyism” according to comrade “Skip”.

      Hasbara trolls manipulate the human psychological tendency to presume identity.

      So how is it possible to avoid deception by trolls? By paying attention to fact-based evidence:

      Examine what is posted and whether it aligns with facts, not some presumed “personal” identity or one’s own “personal” preference (what one “agrees” or “disagrees” with).

      Propaganda trolls generally avoid verifiable facts. In the case of “backwardsevolution”, the verifiable facts are rejected outright by the troll.

      With reference to the posts by “mike k” and “backwardsevolution”, specific remarks are cited that clearly indicate effort to distract , dilute and diver from the reality of Israel-gate.

      “Skip” laments that the “only reasonable course of action is to refrain from making any alliances”. But that’s just more Hasbara nonsense that ignores reality.

      Consortium News is an independent investigative journalism site.

      Readers around the world turn to Consortium News for fact-based analysis and information.

      The friends who gather here at CN are friends of facts and reality.

      The alliances here at CN are rooted in a shared commitment to seek facts and connect with reality.

      There are oodles of sites on the web where other kinds of “internet friends” meet to share their “personal” favorite brand of “alt news”, blatant disinformation, political rants, conspiracy theories, and the like, not to mention the mainstream media. Go troll there. Have at it, “folks”.

      CN a fact-based news site.

      That is why it’s so necessary to be watchful for Hasbara troll disinformation in our comments section.

      So best wishes to “Skip”, “mike k”, “backwardsevolution” and the rest of “the folks”. Start spewing Hasbara here at CN and the response definitely will not be “cordial”. Mazel tov.

      • Skip Scott
        January 4, 2018 at 5:13 pm

        It must be very comfortable to be so sure of yourself. However, I suspect that it may be very lonely as well. My best wishes for you was not sarcasm, but by your reply I can tell that with you it’s all or nothing. Sorry, but I ain’t gonna march anymore.

      • Gregory Herr
        January 4, 2018 at 9:23 pm

        Have you ever heard of defeating your own purpose? Such a damn shame that a gifted person could become so narrow. Your “best wishes” ring hollow. But “carry on comrade”, maybe you do have a monopoly on everything “factual” and should dictate what constitutes worth, meaning, and salient points of discussion.

        9/11, by the way, was perpetrated one way or another via conspiracy. And certainly the “set of facts” or explanations known as the “official story” are by-and-large unproven and, with respect to much of it, disproven. So that eventful day which “changed everything” happens to be, or should be, a topic of great discussion. Much of the American conception of the world has misfortunately been shaped by the “official story” leading to “policy” travesties at home and abroad. I agree that that discussion should be based on the evidence and any conjecture should reasonably flow from said evidence. Your dismissiveness won’t faze me or any other fair-minded thinking person. So have at it …I’m a Hasbara troll looking to “muddy things up”. Guess that makes me a Zionist as well (though I deplore the plight of Palestinians and the Ziocon wars).

        • Abe
          January 5, 2018 at 1:41 am

          Thank you for your post, Gregory.

          You mention several undisputed facts.

          Fact: 9/11 was perpetrated one way or another via conspiracy.

          Fact: The “set of facts” or explanations known as the “official story” of 9/11 are by-and-large unproven and, with respect to much of it, disproven.

          Fact: Much of the American conception of the world has been shaped by the “official story” leading to “policy” travesties at home and abroad.

          All these facts may be salient points of discussion, but the topic of this article isn’t 9/11.

          How does “9/11 talk” inserted into the discussion advance our understanding of the still-missing evidence of Russia-gate, or the emerging facts of Israel-gate?

          While I happen to wholeheartedly agree that 9/11 should be a topic of discussion based on the factual evidence and that any conjecture should reasonably flow from said evidence (a very great deal of “9/11 talk” fails to conform to these basic criteria), I also understand the difference between facts and my own personal views, opinions and beliefs.

          Back to the issue of facts.

          Propaganda trolls generally avoid verifiable facts. The trolls usually spew some form of conjecture, mere “opinion”, or “conspiracy theory”.

          Trolling requires deception. It’s practically impossible to determine the actual identity of a poster on the internet. Trolls manipulate the psychological tendency to presume identity.

          Identifying trolling behavior requires paying attention to the evidence of what is posted and whether it aligns with facts, not some presumed “personal” identity or one’s own “personal” preference (what one “agrees” or “disagrees” with).

          Obviously the Hasbara propaganda trolls at CN find any and all fact-based discussion of Israeli government interference and pro-Israel Lobby interference in American elections and foreign policy far too “narrow” for their taste.

  19. January 6, 2018 at 2:04 pm

    Might one ask if the Veterans Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) cannot sway American public opinion to avoid war with Russia, a US manufactured adversary, then who has the credentials that can? Thank you Mr. Bernstein for doing what you are able to get us off this treacherous train ride being stoked by the corporate war industrialists, perhaps even more powerful that the NRA and Anti-Palestinian lobbies put together. Hope you have a good year doing this.

Comments are closed.