President Trump will have his first meeting with President Putin at a time of dangerous U.S.-Russian tensions, amid demands to “get tough,” but ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern, a former presidential briefer, urges Trump to see Putin’s side.
By Ray McGovern
In the style of a President’s Daily Brief for President Trump:
When you meet with President Putin next week, you can count on him asking you why the U.S. is encircling Russia with antiballistic missile systems.
President Barack Obama meets with President Vladimir Putin of Russia on the sidelines of the G20 Summit at Regnum Carya Resort in Antalya, Turkey, Nov. 15, 2015. National Security Advisor Susan E. Rice listens at left. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)
Putin regarded the now-defunct Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty as the key to maintaining the nuclear-weapons balance between the United States and Russia and told filmmaker Oliver Stone that the U.S. withdrawal from the treaty in 2001 and the follow-on U.S. deployment of ABM batteries could “destroy this balance. And that’s a great mistake.”
For decades, the Russians have viewed an invulnerable nuclear-tipped strategic missile force as a deterrent to a U.S. attack though they have never displayed an inclination to commit suicide by actually firing them.
From this perspective, Putin wonders why the U.S. might seek to upset the nuclear balance by deploying ABM systems around Russia’s borders, making Russia’s ICBM force vulnerable.
Putin’s generals, like yours, are required to impute the most provocative intentions to military capabilities; that is what military intelligence is all about. Thus, they cannot avoid seeing the ABM deployments as giving the U.S. the capability for a first strike to decapitate Russia’s ICBM force and, by doing so, protecting the U.S. from Russian nuclear retaliation.
And, as Putin has made clear, the Kremlin sees U.S. claims that the deployments are needed to thwart a strategic strike from Iran as insultingly disingenuous – all the more so in light of the 2015 multilateral agreement handcuffing Iran’s development of a nuclear bomb for the foreseeable future.
Yet, the U.S.-Russia strategic balance becomes more and more precarious with the deployment of each new ABM site or warship, together with rising concerns at the possibility of a U.S. technological breakthrough. With the time window for Russian leaders to evaluate data indicating a possible U.S. nuclear strike closing, launch-on-warning becomes more likely – and so does World War III.
Your visit to Warsaw en route to Hamburg for the G-20 summit will shine the spotlight on the threat Putin sees in the deployment of missile defense systems in Poland – as well as Romania and elsewhere on Russia’s periphery.
It is no secret that Russian leaders feel double-crossed by NATO’s steady creep eastward, but Russia’s strategic planners seemed to believe they could handle that – up to a point. That point was reached with the Feb. 22, 2014 coup d’etat in Ukraine, which Moscow viewed as one U.S.-backed regime change too many and one that installed a virulently anti-Russian government along a route historically used by foreign invaders.
On April 17, 2014, the day before Crimea was re-incorporated into Russia, Putin spoke of what motivated Russia’s strong reaction. The “more important” reason he gave was the need to thwart plans to incorporate Ukraine and Crimea into the anti-ballistic missile deployment encircling Russia.
Putin explained: “This issue is no less, and probably even more important, than NATO’s eastward expansion. Incidentally, our decision on Crimea was partially prompted by this.”
ABM: ‘A Separate Issue’
In his interviews with Oliver Stone (aired on Showtime as “The Putin Interviews”), Putin made the same distinction between the NATO buildup (bad enough) and ABM deployment (more dangerous still), telling Stone the ABM challenge is “a separate issue which no doubt is going to require a response from Russia.”
Oliver Stone interviewing Russian President Vladimir Putin in Showtime’s “The Putin Interviews.”
Putin blames your predecessors for his mistrust of Washington on this important issue. He has branded a huge mistake President Bush’s 2001 decision to exit the ABM Treaty – an agreement that sharply limited the number of permitted anti-ballistic missile sites – noting that the Treaty had been for three decades the “cornerstone of the system of national security as a whole.”
Putin’s misgivings were hardly allayed by President Obama’s ten-second pas de deux five years ago with Dmitry Medvedev in South Korea. An ABC open mike picked up their private conversation on March 26, 2012, at a summit on nuclear security in Seoul.
Obama is heard assuring then-Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that the missile defense issue “can be solved,” but that it was “important for him (Putin) to give me space.” President Obama asked Medvedev to tell Putin that Obama would have “more flexibility” after being re-elected. More flexibility or no, the missile defense program proceeded unabated, with Washington shunning bilateral talks.
It is now five years later, but there will be a residue of distrust on Putin’s part with respect to ABM deployment. We still expect Putin to show his characteristic reserve, but you will be dealing with someone who feels he’s been diddled on this key issue, and who, on occasion, gets angry when others don’t grasp the gravity of this potentially existential moment.
For example, speaking to journalists on June 17, 2016, Putin criticized the reasons that the U.S. gives for the need to deploy ABM systems, especially the “threat from Iran.” Observing their apathetic reaction, Putin uncharacteristically lost his cool.
Given this history, you will have a suitcase of mistrust to overcome in talks with Putin. It will take more than smooth Obama-style reassurances to allay the Russian President’s misgivings over Washington’s intentions on missile defense.
Given the priority he places on the challenge, however, he may propose that U.S. and Russian negotiators begin to talk seriously about the issue.
Lost Opportunities
It may be helpful to recall that less than four years ago U.S.-Russian relations were in a much more positive place. After a disputed sarin incident outside Damascus on Aug. 21, 2013, Putin helped Obama out of a geopolitical corner by persuading Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to surrender Syria’s entire chemical weapons inventory, under close U.N. supervision, for destruction on a U.S. ship.
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Aug. 30, 2013, claims to have proof that the Syrian government was responsible for a chemical weapons attack on Aug. 21, 2013, but that evidence failed to materialize or was later discredited. [State Department photo]
“My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism …
“It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional … There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. … We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.”
Russia then played a central role in facilitating Iran’s concessions regarding the nuclear accord that President Obama considered perhaps his greatest diplomatic achievement, with the key interim agreement reached on Nov. 24, 2013. But Putin felt betrayed when Obama’s State Department helped organize the coup in Ukraine just three months later.
Since the Ukraine crisis, U.S. media and political circles have subjected Putin to an unrelenting demonization, including comparisons of him to Adolf Hitler and an over-the-top campaign to blame him for Hillary Clinton’s defeat and the Trump presidency.
Yet, while the tone of the Russia-bashing in Washington has reached hysterical levels, the Defense Intelligence Agency has just published a balanced assessment of “Russia’s Threat Perceptions,” which offers a view from Moscow’s vantage point:
“Since returning to power in 2012, Russian President Putin has sought to reassert Russia as a great power on the global stage and to restructure an international order that the Kremlin believes is tilted too heavily in favor of the United States at Russia’s expense.
“Moscow seeks to promote a multipolar world predicated on the principles of respect for state sovereignty and non-interference in other state’s internal affairs, the primacy of the UN, and a careful balance of power preventing one state or group of states from dominating the international order. …
“Moscow has sought to build a robust military able to project power, add credibility to Russian diplomacy, and ensure that Russian interests can no longer be summarily dismissed without consequence.”
A fair assessment, in our view.
Ray McGovern was a CIA analyst for 27 years, during which he served as chief of the Soviet Foreign Policy Branch. He also prepared the President’s Daily Brief under Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Reagan, conducting the early morning briefings under Reagan.
How does Putin deal with mentally ill Trump?
Trump thinks it’s perfectly okay (even funny?) to constantly lie to people. Yes, Obama lied about of lots of things. So he’s no exception to the rule. Put yourself in Putin’s place as he meets with Trump on Friday. You have tour intelligence assessments of Trump, US policy and more. But can I literally believe anything that he says?
I know that McGovern says that personally he has no problem with Trump. What does that mean exactly? He’s okay with Trump’s lies, racism, sexism and mentally ill behavior? Why? Just because he says he wants better relations with Russia, that makes all of this okay? Also, I know that McGovern’s struggling to get coverage anywhere he can. That being said, I suggested to him in an email that appearing on places like Alex Jones, Lyndon Larouche and other racist outlets will make him look bad. But apparently he could care less about that. That’s just sad.
Skip Scott, thank you for your kind words. I always get a lot from your insightful posts here, too. There are many thinking people who come to Consortium News. To some whose comments I’ve read that too much time and discussion is being spent on Russia and US relations, looking at the spin side in government and media who can’t get off of it, one can see that pushback is necessary because of the irrational tone that has gripped this nation.
Thank you, Jessica. I am unfortunately a bit of a hot head at times, and people like you and Joe Tedesky are the kind of people I need to learn from. I’m trying, but I know I’ve got a ways to go.
excellent analysis
I think Trump and Putin are on the same side…..both want to work toward peace. But there ARE elements in the U.S. Gov and CIA and Pentagon that DON’T want peace. That’s right, those rogue elements that are part of the Deep State.
President Putin must instruct the Trumpster on the Law of Snowballs. The Law of Snowballs states, “It will always be easier, simpler and cheaper to manufacture more snowballs than to manufacture machines that knock snowballs out of the sky.”
I haven’t heard any more about the impending sarin gas attack by the Syrian government. Hopefully the Pentagon or whoever made up that fake news report has backed off. But others will come. The military is itching to bomb Assad’s forces. If Russia has moved in antiaircraft missiles, this could be a bloody showdown. I could even see Russian subs sinking US aircraft carriers. It’ll be a bloody mess with both sides with their fingers on the nukes.
Lets hope it will not come to this. We all have children that we want to see growing up, right? If war is needed then I hope they start with a cold war before they start firing nukes at each other.
It’s worse than that. Both the U.S. and Russians have nuclear missile armed submarines which are virtually untraceable. Any mutual conflict would be disastrous.
The recent ratcheting up of Russo-phobia, diminishing use of the USD for international commodity exchanges in wake of the Bretton Woods system after the 2008 crisis and the ever so gradual replacement of Western Democracies and their bureaucracies with a fascist Global multinational, corpocracy. These various developments have all come together, intimidating and provoking Putin. It takes no stretch of the imagination to assume that his FIS and Chief Directorate of Border Forces have already deployed “suitcase” nukes near critical political and military NATO infrastructure(s). These mini nukes will act as back up should the new Russian electronic Warfare devise “Khibiny” (Maggrav) fail. Just in case CONSORTIUMNEWS readers haven’t heard about this technology, ASIDE: Technical information set for distribution to the general public, (Magrav technology) and the writings of it’s inventor, Iranian-born nuclear engineer Mehran Keshes’ were banned under an Executive Order issued by Obama on 23 April 2012, it will jamb every missile, battleground communication, ground-to-satellite communication, drones, cruise missiles guidance systems, over large swaths of land sea and air. For example, the USS Donald Cook was on patrol (Black Sea?) when a SU-34 crossed her bow armed with a ECM module fitted with “Khibiny” technology, paralyzing all the ships electronic devises and weaponry, this same ECM devise took down Alaska’s NORAD a few months ago. Atop Khibiny deployments there are other perils to planning a direct confrontation such as non-nuclear EMP generating devises possibly deployed to neutralize incoming NATO missiles and to my knowledge, they cannot be “hardened” against EMP. Thus, the encirclement remains a NeoCon fantaisie. These missile battery build ups are a direct result of carefully repackaging a cold war propaganda mantra- “the Russians are coming”. In effect, a hoax and a downright swindle by the MIC’s to dig ever deeper into the coffers of NATO government tax revenues, they remain the last cash cow, last of the piggy banks left to raid, for weapons manufacturers of course.When are citizens of this world ever gonna wise up?!
elmerfudzie,
I’m far less concerned with Russian “suitcase nukes”. Probably each and every installation (military and political) is monitored 24/7, so it will be pretty hard to deploy anything close to them without being caught. I’m more concerned about the US ones (watch: U.S. had Cold War ‘backpack nukes’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UokyDHJnjg4 and have a look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Atomic_Demolition_Munition and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W54). The US has a well known history of “getting dragged” into conflicts and for false flags.
Joe Average, I will indeed take your comments and web references under advisement. However, in response to the mini-nukes opine… high radiation shielding(s), be it fast neutron or gamma radiation source masking are low tech items, that have little difficulty in securing and are easy to fabricate. Oddly, the fissionable substance, U235, requires very little shielding to hide it’s presence (a zip locked plastic bag would do). Years ago I was under the impression that the extremely high photon energies characteristic of cosmic rays, active above earths’ atmosphere, were unduly exposing astronauts to excessive amounts of ionizing radiation. A tech-fix suddenly appeared out-of-nowhere, with a well known plastic substance called polypropylene (a high density hydrogen source and an unbelievably good wave/particle energy absorb-er) . Thus, it would be reasonable to assume that well known radiation reflectors similar to Beryllium or absorbers similar to polypropylene are now presently available and could hide atomic devises from detection, especially while in transit to a terror target. Other avenues exist such as, sub-surface tunneling to the objective, (from a remote and subterranean location) or using low flying drones, launching them, then detonating a non-nuclear EMP generating explosion, or similarly, using cleverly disguised vehicles assuming the role of a Trojan Horse. These scenarios or possibilities cannot be simply, dismissed. They are and continue to be, plausible guerrilla or asymmetric warfare strategies. Add to this whole equation, compromised yet, “friendly” employees working at or near critically important infrastructures. These individuals, at the same time, would carry active, high security clearance(s). This scenario may include, walking nuclear materials or devises in..driving them into a parking area near the facility…and other, unmentioned but similar worries….
I think it was Russia’s resistance on Snowden and the US sponsored takeover of Syria by Jihadi thugs which brought on the new cold war. I greatly respect Mr. McGovern’s judgements in this and other articles. I still remember when he was manhandled for standing up to the harpy. We can only hope that Trump’s virtues: his scepticism of the power structure and common sense on the key issues: the danger of a nuclear war with Russia based on the absurd pretext of backing US sponsored terrorists can overcome his faults: his vanity and desire to be liked and therefore his vulnerability to manipulation by the power structure.
For everything that Trump is jacking up on the domestic front, I have to say I am glad it is he going to Russia right now and not Clinton. That’s why I couldn’t vote for her. Better to keep existing and live to fight another day on the domestics, than to vote in Clinton, get more Obama policies (i.e. everyone has healthcare coverage they can’t afford), and have her go to Putin and try to explain that when she called him Hitler she meant it in the nicest possible way. ;)
Really though if she were POTUS I believe we’d already be in WWIII.
Many sound points in your hypothetical briefing, Mr. McGovern, but in the real world Trump would be sound asleep after your fist paragraph, and he would have been already briefed by Kushner using three power point slides: 1) Israel GOOOOD; 2) Iran BAAADD; 3) Russia GOOD only if it betrays Iran..
Thanks AnthraxSleuth, for your correction of my ignorance of congressional protocol on impeachment, I should have gotten my detail correct. I don’t see that any of Congress do much worthwhile, anyway, and whether impeachment goes anywhere or not, there is still nothing getting done for this pathetic nation. I think you could have stated your point as fact without insult, though. So to your statement about dodging a bullet by Clinton not winning, unfortunately it looks as though we’re hit by a machete of non-ending stupidity in the Trump government show. To me, it’s the quote by Malcolm X, “”The chickens have come home to roost”, we have a dysfunctional government that serves only the rich, especially the super-rich. Russia’s government runs circles around this one in representing their nation.
Jessica K-
You are a class act! Thank you for being you.
i wonder if she is cute too? /wink
Ray McGovern has always been the voice of reason.
I do recall Hillary having him physically abused and removed from her “freedom speech”.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/02/18/hillary-clintons-hypocrisy-on-dissent/
I can only imagine what little thought Herself would give to anything Ray McGovern suggested.
We dodged a bullet by that POS losing the election.
Mr McGovern lets not be naive about the present situation. Facts that are all verifiable proves to me at least that the deep state has it’s own agenda.
One :The Petro-Dollar is losing its primacy. Qatar ,Iran ,Russia and China are already doing direct trade by passing their transfers into direct currency swaps.
Two: The moves of the so called Nato/allied forces of late and since 2014 prove to even my neighbours cat that they have no intention on letting up on China,Iran and Russia , In other word extortion by threat of military threats. Iran has been labelled by the land of the not so free USA government and b y POTUS himself that Iran is the greatest threat too peace in the ME and that they are the largest sponsors of terrorism in the world. The Qatar fiasco and last but not least all the imbroglio’s in the ME from Libya Afghanistan and Syria and IRAQ.
Three: The constant demonisation of Russia and the threats to China and the fact that Daesh has now showed it’s head in the Phillipines tells me that these vile excrements of the deep state have no intention in desisting their nefarious acts .Great example what they are doing with the Syrian Kurds and how they are going to establish a Airbase in the Tabaqa area.
Four : economic indicators do not bold well for their fraudulent economic paradigm indicators show a definite slowing in all western economies. It has been estimated that the various central banks in the west have another 15trillion dollars to print in order to keep on kicking the can down the road to their defunct pseudo capitilaist financialisation scheme. Hence comes my final argument
Five ; With a defunct economic paradigm and reduced capacity to print money with the dying petro-dollar scheme these vile creatures would like to have endless wars to the point of no return. Until the vast majority of people wake up to this vile game they are playing ,nothing but an evitable catastrophe will occur. Putin and Xi as well as Rouhani are wised up to the Capos of the west intention.
Irans latest firing of a ballistic missile into Syria was just a warning sign to the Capos we are ready to die to the death and still no one in the west in the MSM or our governments ever give us any reason to believe in what they say or do.
How long can humanity last with such vile people in the west running us and ruining the lives of countless millions around the world.
We r constantly reminded of the holocaust of the second world war but the actual holocaust that has been happening since the Korean War to this day never gets a mention . Silly me how could Yellow,brown,black people be compared to western jewish people.
Do see my point exceptionalism is an elitist supremacist and racist notion that has caused great destruction of nations and people . Smedley Butler said it then and also came fourth at Senate hearing in the 30’s His famous words . ”We are just muscle for a bunch of racketeers”
America said fuck it, rolled the dice and they came up Donald J. Trump. Now we’re saying fuck it, let’s roll the dice and see who will win World War III, Uncle Sam or Uncle Joe. C’mon, can’t you feel it? Aren’t you itching for some action? Our nukes vs their nukes. Like Monday Night Football but bigger and better! Pop up some Jiffy Pop and load up on canned soup. USA, ARE YOU READY FOR SOME NUKEBALL? Fuck Yeahhhhhhh!
While Russia is usually bragging about its military achievements, the US-military has the policy to keep most of its technological progress secret. Looking at the US Military budget I would be cautious. Above all we should be careful not to have the approach of a football fan. Many, many, many footfall fans went already to a game totally convinced they would kick the opponents royal *ss but came back totally disappointed.
Patrick-
If you haven’t viewed it please check out Putin’s speech that Gregory posted. Putin is doing the opposite of bragging about military achievements, he explains how they were forced into upgrading, and doesn’t give away details. As for US secrets, all of Washington leaks like a sieve. Our technological progress is all over the internet. There will be no winners in WWIII, you have to be breathing to get to be “disappointed”.
Patrick who was the country who upon invading Iraq in 1991 had news agencies playing over, and over again, guided missiles with cameras showing missiles being shot down Iraqi chimneys? Who was the nation who allowed productions of tv shows which showed off its air forces stealth fighter planes, to no end? Which country recently boosted with videos showing the destruction of a hand full of jihadist with the Mother Of All Bombs? What country do you know of who announces to the world it’s naval carrier ships movement, while shaking a stick at one of the most backward country’s the world has to offer? Ask yourself how often Russia has warned reluctant nations who question it’s superiority that they will be bombed into the next Stone Age, if they don’t adhere to their exceptional demands? Then ask yourself which nation, Russia or the U.S. has over 800 military bases worldwide?
I’ll give you this Patrick, you do stay on message, but as convincing as you sound the truth still lingers in the air, that the U.S. is without a doubt the biggest aggressor this world has ever encountered. Whether you count the abundance of military bases, the endless supply of military weaponry being furnished to every jihadist and NATO/GCC coalition there is, or illegal invasions of sovereign nations, which have become accepted and customary, the U.S. is certainly not humble nor is it a snowflake surrounded by heavy rain. While Russia is far from being out of control, the U.S. seems to believe it has every right in the world to flex it’s muscles and bring death and destruction to those who won’t tow the U.S. line.
Patrick you are a fantastic spin artist, and although you have an answer for everything, your spinning here will just get you dizzy.
And I can’t help but be reminded of the image of a strutting codpiece on an aircraft carrier.
It’s also bemusing to me that Patrick doesn’t seem to recognize the satirical nature of the post he is responding to.
Mission Accomplished!
Hi Joe, I was not planning to defend US behavior or policies and I am for sure no Trump fan. Do think that in most cases things are not as extreme as east or west propaganda channels usually show them. And although the majority of the reactions here on this website are fully supporting the leader that the ROC has described as a gift from God, the majority of the people in the world think differently. While appreciating that this site does not include the typical Russian scolding, I would encourage the readers to be more open towards a different viewpoint. Maybe not because you agree to other viewpoints but because of lack of better alternatives forward. I consider ww3 not a good way forward. I consider increased Russian sanctions not a good way forward. Putin has no plan to revive his economy. Oil prices are not going to increase sharply in the next years. There is no plan to fight Russian corruption. Maybe the way forward is not 100% as Russia and the CN readers would like to have it but compromises may be needed,..eta jizn!
Who is the leader of the ROC and what is the ROC?
No one wants a ww3, and it could be argued that the sanctions put on Russia are hurting Western financial interest, just as much as it is hurting Russia. I wouldn’t go so far, as to say Putin has no economic plan for Russia. The sanctions which have been placed on Russia, has only rallied the Russians further to their becoming more self-sufficient. Low oil prices certainly doesn’t help Russia, but what a price to pay by the Saudi’s who are also not in the best of shape financially, not a good way to dwindle down your foe. If Putin should do away with corruption in his country, then I hope we Americans learn from him, and do the same here in America. Lastly compromise is what diplomacy is often all about, and nobody here is against diplomatic dialogue.
Thanks for the reply Patrick, and I will look forward to hearing whatever it is you have to say. I will also add that what makes talking to you an interesting thing, is your diverse opinion makes me think a little harder than I would if you had agreed with me. Take care Joe
Joe-
I would also add that Russia has become the largest wheat producer on the planet, and all non-GMO. Putin has raised the standard of living for the average Russian tremendously when compared to the Yeltsin years, as well as life expectancy. The corruption Patrick speaks of initiated under our puppet Yeltsin. Putin has made a deal to allow oligarchs to keep their booty as long as they leave it in the country and use it to support Russian jobs. As for the majority of the world thinking differently, I doubt he’s taken count. The majority of the USA and EU puppets that get fed constant MSM propaganda think differently, but that’s not a majority of the world’s population. And of course the majority of Russians have supported Putin all along, always over 60 pct, and sometimes above 80 pct.
How is it that you, Patrick, appreciate “that this site does not include the typical Russian scolding”? You contend that Russia has invaded Ukraine and that Putin lost his temper and was hastily coercive regarding Crimea. You made a heinously sarcastic remark about how Russia measured success in WWII. You infer that Russia shot down the Malaysian airliner and contend that Putin is a serial liar who kills his political opponents. You spouted some other bizarre nonsense about China, that “yellow dragon”, but the upshot of your presence here has been that of an extreme propagandist.
Moreover, you cheaply designated CN as propaganda, and appear to be trying to paint this website as narrow in view and as something of a “tool”. As far as being “open to viewpoints”: It is my observation that this site is blessed with thinking people who have spent lifetimes being immersed in “viewpoints”…the hallmarks of the humanities and science, marked by curiosity, breadth and depth of scope, and evidentiary strictures are often present here.
Don’t take this as floating my own boat, Patrick. I am not well-travelled or broadly experienced, am certainly not accomplished…and my “scholarship”, such that it is, is lightweight and of the dilettante variety at best. I am just a working stiff who was fortunate to experience a brief brush with some terrific professors and who probably reads too much for my own good. But sometimes I know a good thing when I see it. CN is one of those things.
Skip thanks for interjecting that about Russia into the conversation.
Gregory I’m appreciative of your intelligence, and I agree with you.
u are completely biased and uninformed pat….why the rest of these folks are feeding your trollish butt…i dont know…u know nothing about russia if you dont understand what putin has done for russias economy and is about to take it to an even higher level…do u actually read pat? or just listen to msnbc?
regards
d
So flying saucers are no spaceships?
God knows what the creature will say to Mr. Putin. We can only hope nuclear war doesn’t follow.
Manfred Mann “Blinded by the Light”, original words and music by Bruce Springsteen.
Blinded by the might – immune to the truth, another hero in the fight
Blinded by the might – talk is no use, we got a mad dog on the loose
Blinded by the might – pumped up on the juice, he’s never gonna call a truce
He was blinded by the might
Afterburners screaming, radar streamers beaming as the catapults launch into the night
Chain gun pounds a thousand rounds, explosion sounds as targets in the distance ignite
Ramjet rocket motor on a mach two locomotor with a ton of dynamite in the tip
Skimming on the surface with a solitary purpose just a circus for the hull of a ship
Just a circus for the hull of a ship
[Chorus]
A pentagon forecaster pleased his master blaster told him he could go back to sleep
No missiles in the system, or maybe he just missed ’em, those diesel boats run quiet and deep
And chrome dome syndrome was checking his testosterone to see if he could do the dark side
Another Cheney maniac approves a shock and awe attack they never gonna swallow their pride
Never gonna swallow their pride
[Chorus]
Detonator commentators bombing crater perpetrators praying to a microphone
Legislator instigators gotta change regime dictators they all gotta be overthrown
Broadcast news, rumored views, arbitrary truth to choose, drone torpedoes laying in wait
Brian’s beauty in those rockets war libido in his pockets common sense just won’t penetrate
Common sense just won’t penetrate
[Chorus]
Tailhook hero out of gas returning from a victory pass but there’s no deck to land in the dark
Bombing runner Gatling gunner fuel is gone and so’s the fun so now you’re just a meal for a shark
No responder or transponder clear horizon now to ponder better punch out close to a beach
Club Med’s new attraction factor is a nuclear reactor quaint nostalgia’s way out of reach
Quaint nostalgia’s way out of reach
He got down but he never got right
He won’t make it through the night…
If only I could recall the original, I could appreciate what appears to be a great take-off. I’m sure that this deserves wider circulation.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-S9Dj-S9rU
This version is workable with the lyrics – it’s a tricky number. Actually, I’m pretty surprised a rock band ever tried to pull it off. Turns into a round at the end – nice buildup to the finish.
Regarding expectations, I’ll be surprised if Trump shows up with anything other than some silly pet-project proposals. Likely he won’t hold still for a proper briefing.
I’d predict Putin will be very friendly and polite and will cover the obvious policy points, but won’t expect any favorable outcome.
Realist…now more than ever, Putin and those around him need to give Trump utmost respect, ask the questions suggested by Ray McGovern, and express Russia’s concern for world peace with all the authenticity Putin has embodied for years in the face of US arrogance and aggression.
Good to read your words, Sandra, and I don’t know if you ever read Black Agenda Report, a weekly webzine, but it’s obvious the rest of the world sees through US lies about “bringing democracy”. The Caribbean nations just told off the US Ambassador to Guyana, saying the US has no business lecturing any other nation about anything, when the violent record of USA is outfront for everyone to see. They said “get your own house in order”. They especially brought up the vile, violent overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya. Everybody sees what the US is doing. Thousands of Venezuelans marched in support of Maduro, even though US covert operations have helped bring about difficult living for them, because they oppose the US interfering, and they are defending their sovereignty. I think we are witnessing a paradigm shift, many changes happening worldwide. The next few years will be critical.
“In our country there is no large and small partners, any country is a value as such, with each we are ready to build an equal dialogue, to cooperate in a constructive and mutually respectful manner.” Vladimir Putin – while Trump uses bullets, bombs, tomahawk missiles and the MOAB over a known staged, false flag gas attack in Syria. Somebody please tell me what’s wrong with this picture. And Nikki Haley should be deemed an American ‘terrorist’ for blatantly lying to the United Nations. She’s not only dangerous for America, but all mankind. I voted for Donald Trump, but he sure is making it difficult to like him. As an American citizen, I’m not going to apologize for my support, admiration and respect of Vladimir Putin, and I’m praying to God somewhere, that Trump can find a way to stop demonizing Russia as our fake corporate media does daily and Nikki Haley repeatedly does. America is going to hell fast after eight years under the Obama regime, and we need help. And we need it now. There is nothing wrong with getting along with the great country of Russia. They are not the enemy here. If America wants to see who the ‘real’ enemy is here, all they have to do is take a good hard look in the mirror.
Spot on!
Nikki Haley should go back to waiting tables at Waffle House.
Sandra, maybe the key to staying the nr1 military, technological and economic superpower is to make your opponents emotional and then to provoke him into do something illegal and wrong. And then to supply financial aide and weapons to the other party to create a dependancy. Example: Wouldn’t you loose your temper if you first bribed and spent billions of dollars on making the Olympic games incredible and outstanding,…just to see that during the closing ceremony the entire world has switched channels to see how Ukraine is turning towards the west?
Please tell me when and where you saw Putin “lose his temper”. By who’s definition did he do something illegal and wrong? So, it’s ok for Scotland to vote to secede from the UK, but it’s not OK for Crimea to vote to secede from the Kiev Nazis?
As for us being the nr1 military, we certainly are the biggest, and our victories in places like Grenada and Panama certainly show how tough we are.
And obviously it was ok for Kosovo to secede from Serbia – without even bothering about a referendum.
For your viewing pleasure: http://youtu.be/kqD8lIdIMRo
“We have no doubt that sovereignty is the central notion of the entire system of international relations. Respect for it and its consolidation will help underwrite peace and stability both at the national and international levels…First of all, there must be equal and indivisible security for all states.”
“I am convinced that we have reached that decisive moment when we must seriously think about the architecture of global security. And we must proceed by searching for a reasonable balance between the interests of all participants in the international dialogue.” (“Wars not diminishing’: Putin’s iconic 2007 Munich speech, you tube)
“Only after ending armed conflicts and ensuring the peaceful development of all countries will we be able to talk about economic progress and the resolution of social, humanitarian and other key problems….
It is essential to provide conditions for creative labour and economic growth at a pace that would put an end to the division of the world into permanent winners and permanent losers. The rules of the game should give the developing economies at least a chance to catch up with those we know as developed economies. We should work to level out the pace of economic development, and brace up backward countries and regions so as to make the fruit of economic growth and technological progress accessible to all. Particularly, this would help to put an end to poverty, one of the worst contemporary problems.”…
Another priority is global healthcare…. All people in the world, not only the elite, should have the right to healthy, long and full lives. This is a noble goal. In short, we should build the foundation for the future world today by investing in all priority areas of human development.” (Meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club)”
http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/putins-new-world-order/
“We have no doubt that sovereignty is the central notion of the entire system of international relations. Respect for it and its consolidation will help underwrite peace and stability both at the national and international levels…First of all, there must be equal and indivisible security for all states.”
“I am convinced that we have reached that decisive moment when we must seriously think about the architecture of global security. And we must proceed by searching for a reasonable balance between the interests of all participants in the international dialogue.” (“Wars not diminishing’: Putin’s iconic 2007 Munich speech, you tube)
“Only after ending armed conflicts and ensuring the peaceful development of all countries will we be able to talk about economic progress and the resolution of social, humanitarian and other key problems….
It is essential to provide conditions for creative labour and economic growth at a pace that would put an end to the division of the world into permanent winners and permanent losers. The rules of the game should give the developing economies at least a chance to catch up with those we know as developed economies. We should work to level out the pace of economic development, and brace up backward countries and regions so as to make the fruit of economic growth and technological progress accessible to all. Particularly, this would help to put an end to poverty, one of the worst contemporary problems.”…
Another priority is global healthcare…. All people in the world, not only the elite, should have the right to healthy, long and full lives. This is a noble goal. In short, we should build the foundation for the future world today by investing in all priority areas of human development.” (Meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club)”
http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/putins-new-world-order/
If this comment duplicates, it’s due to “moderation”.
Thanks Gregory. That is a good Putin video that I hadn’t seen previously. It is amazing to me how many people believe Putin is evil and aggressive. They never bother to listen to the man himself, they just parrot what they get from the MSM.
Skip,
I recently viewed a video of Oliver Stone discussing the Putin interviews. He makes a point not to interject his opinion, but rather stresses the need for people to make up their own mind. But he also makes a point of saying that “the camera does not lie”, that one good thing about extensive filmed interviews is that, beyond reading words on paper, people can get a better sense (through body language) of the sincerity of a person, and behavior in general.
As well as Putin’s words have come across to me on paper (and I have read a good deal of his remarks, interviews, and speeches), the Stone interviews on film have added a great deal to my understanding of where the man “comes from”.
Ray McGovern has raised very good points. However, there is very little chance of any real progress as long as U.S., and others in The West perceive that Russia is weak, and can be eliminated with a first strike. The Elites who Rule in U.S. and in the Capitols of Western European Nations are not reasonable and rational humans in the sense we think of. They live in a world of their own manufactured reality.
When U.S., British, French, Germans, and others in The West accuse the Russians of being expansionist based on their perceptions of Russian history, one wonders if the Leaders of these Nations have read the last five centuries of World History or even read the history of their own countries. One has to laugh at their pronouncements and accusations. The West is making wars in four or five countries now, their one thousand or so bases are spread all over the globe, their Armadas are prowling all the big and small Oceans of the Globe looking for a prey, and they have the gall to say that the Russians are threatening to expand into Europe and elsewhere.
There is a very good book I read recently on Russian History by British historian/professor Phillip Longworth published in 2005. Professor Longworth examines all the Imperial Nations: British, French, Russians, Spanish, and U.S.. Professor Longworth says: Russian expansion into Siberia, and other places was much milder than the other Imperialist powers, including the U.S.; Russia’s treatment of the conquered people was not as harsh as that of the other Western Imperial Nations; Russians did not consider themselves as racially superior to the conquered people. Professor Longworth quotes a British missionary’s account of the Russian Embassy of two thousand soldiers, diplomats , and merchants, and scholars which visited Bejing during eighteenth century: the Russian officers and soldiers mixed with the ordinary Chinese as if they were equal, they did not consider themselves being superior to Chinese. For a British missionary it was a revelation, based on what he saw of British treating the inhabitants of India, and other countries they were penetrating into.
The Whole World beyond the borders of the West knows that this propaganda that Russia is going to attack and take over the neighbors to the west is nothing but nonsense. The Wall Street Financial, Media, and Entertainment . . . Oligarchies rule in U.S. and in Europe too in conjunction with the Oligarchies there. And these Oligarchies want to rule the whole world run from New York , and Washington along with their other outposts in Jerusalem and Europe. They want to put the loyal and Subservient Rulers in Countries all over the World. In a nutshell, that is the whole NeoCon Neoliberalists agenda. Well, if Russia agrees to all this, there will be no problem. Things would be just fine. But it does not look like Russians want to lose their sovereignty, and be kind of subservient puppets like the ones we have in Saudi Arabia, GCC, and elsewhere. Russians had already tasted this experience of being run from Washington by this Oligarchy during 1991-2000.
Until and unless some kind of reality based analysis – of relations with Russia and of the Wars we are waging – is done, nothing is going to come out of this Trump and Putin meeting.
The CIA and their respective alphabet soups have gone beyond meetings. They want war. No meeting between two leaders will accomplish anything. A complete revision of american history is necessary and this seems unlikely.
The Saudis are not subservient puppets. they have gone way beyond this. They have been empowered from the 1970’s on to become the right hand of the US in the Middle East with the Zionists in control of the left hand.
the Saudis play an important role in assuring the peto-dollar continues, that oil prices fall and destroy emerging economies like Ecuador, VZ, and Bolivia, to name a few. And they play a role in financing surveillance, terrorism and destruction throuhgout the Middle East and beyond. They have since the Safari Club, set up in 1976.
No, the Saudis are hardly supplicants. they are part and parcel of the machine set up to assure rabid imperialism and US/Saudi/Zionist terrorism.
Danny, I agree with you on all points you raised. But the fact still remains is that these Saudi Royals are on the throne at the behest of their U.S. Masters. Did not you see how this King Salman was smiling in gratitude greeting Trump during his recent visit to the Kingdom. They are very pampered puppets of The West.
Danny, you have named the real “axis of evil” …the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia. They want to own the world, and Israel will continue unabated to reach the boundaries of Greater Israel, as they have planned for decades. That’s part of their push to bomb Iran (they’ve done it before) by pushing the US into that war. Another part is to continue giving money and arms to the rebels (ISIS, al Quieda, Nusra) to get rid of a progressive leader Bashar al Assad, who as Putin has been vilified unfairly by the MSM.
Well said, Dave P. I notice our “Patrick” didn’t have anything to say in reply.
I only wish we could believe that Trump would actually read Ray’s sensible analysis, but alas, I have given up all hope that Trump might come around. It appears he’s more interested in tweeting about Mika Brzezinski’s appearance and deciding he’ll indulge his ego on trade wars, particularly with China. I wish I could believe otherwise. And he’s proven unable and unstable to grasp any nuance of foreign policy, it seems, nor do his advisors have any coherence even in their maintaining of traditional US belligerence. It is Putin who is sane and intelligent, as well as his advisors.
Now 25 Democrat senators are working on Articles of Impeachment, bringing to bear the 25th Amendment violation by Trump of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution, so he will be increasingly wrapped up in that, if the senators succeed. Trump’s ego will definitely get wrapped up in that until it succeeds or fails.
To top it off, four states now are showing serious signs of failing: Illinois, Connecticut, Maine, and now New Jersey. I wonder how many will follow? Money isn’t there, it all goes for war. People are going to be dying for lack of medical care because of Medicaid shortfalls.
It is not all Trump’s fault, of course, the Republicans and Democrats have wrought a miserable mess of what was already a failing system, and I do believe that worldwide major events, some political and some natural disasters, are looming. That’s my inner Cassandra speaking. Politicians and governments are just not up to the difficulties that we are encountering in the 21st century, these generally are people with shortsightedness and lack of wisdom, tunnel vision training. And the USA bears enormous blame for the state of the world because of its warmongering. From my readings about Vladimir Putin, including his speeches, I have to say that he is one of the few world leaders who do have wisdom.
I only hope that some messages from nature are going to influence a change in thinking, because I have no faith in wisdom of western man. The native peoples were correct, the white man is crazy. Perhaps that supervolcano in Yellowstone is getting reading to explode.
Well, this is not about Trump as much as it is about history of which Trump is only a mortal. Until human beings give up their love for those who author their lives and begin to embrace life and author their own existence, we will be victims of the ‘leadership’ syndrome.
Don’t change leaders, change life itself
You know, I’d rather have the Yellowstone supervolcano wipe out human kind than know that we are responsible for extinguishing all life on the planet, including ourselves, because we could not control our avaricious impulses, because some wealthy jackasses felt the need to possess and control it all. All of “it” is just things, things which have no significance outside of human culture. The laugh will be on the grasping elites, as there won’t even be ghosts left to enjoy their extravagances after the nukes are unleashed.
And no one had better try to tell me all this killing is for the good of those countries we lay waste. I know it’s what they say, but that logic is hysterical. Yet how many times have we seen it: massacre millions so their progeny can have a “better” life. That thinking goes round every generation it seems, and that wonderful future never arrives. What was it, eighty million dead in WWII, and the human race still didn’t learn the lesson that warfare is futile?
Realist,
funny thing is that your wish could come true. In the past the amount of earthquakes near the Yellowstone Super Volcano have been increasing. Another funny thing is that it’s not only the US citizens who may be able to watch a volcano erupting. We Europeans may get our own show with the Naples Super Volcano (https://www.ft.com/content/365adcd6-392b-11e7-821a-6027b8a20f23?mhq5j=e1).
Hate to break it to you there Jessica.
But, 25 Democratic Senators are not working on articles of impeachment.
Wanna know how I know that?
B/c the Senate can not impeach the president. Only the house can do that.
So, going by that ignorant nonsense alone I stopped reading the rest of your diatribe b/c I’m sure it is equally as ill informed as your notion of impeachment.
Hey AnthraxSleuth-
Stuff it. Yes it is 25 House democrats, not senators. That does not change the point of her comment. You’re just so proud of your intelligence, aren’t you. All mouth, no ears.
Plus the Sleuth could do well to cultivate a little gracious understanding that all humans are subject to an occasional slip of a word, particularly if pressed for time..I would bet that Jessica knows full well the fact of the matter…and would bet my life she has a great deal more knowledge and understanding in general than someone like the Sleuth who quits reading an intelligent comment because of a minor blip and then has the temerity to post ignorant nonsense.
Skip and Gregory, thanks for taking Sleuth down a peg. I was going to, but you beat me to it. By stopping reading at a minor blip, he missed out on the gist Jessica’s intelligent comment.
The MSM is in a panic about the coming brief encounter. They should arrange to spend more time together, as Trump did with China’s Leader. Give the MSM something to really go ballistic over. He might discover that Putin is not the demon propaganda from the warmongers has made him out to be.
We can hope Trump already has a bit of accurate understanding from his phone conversations with Putin and face-to-face meeting with Lavrov. But since we don’t know how entrenched the notions are that Trump must most importantly and particularly be disabused of, the hurdles Putin faces aren’t clear. The fact that Putin is personable, reasoned, and as Realist suggests, can possibly persuade Trump of the greater glory of strength through Peace and “winning” business Deals, gives one a glimmer of hope.
Putin has underestimated the level of communication in the 21st century. These days everybody is walking around with a camera and gps-tracker in his pocket and has a communication channel to the whole world. Keeping secrets in these times is very difficult. If you underestimate this and lie, and lie again, and again, and again. You loose credibility and then people will not believe you anymore, even if you tell the truth. Example: – no those are not Russian special forces in Crimea! – no we didn’t shoot down that Malaysian flight! – no there are no Russian military in Donbas! – no we didn’t cheat with the doping tests! – no Russian politicians like Medvedev are not corrupt! – no we don’t kill or imprison our political opponents! …
Your comment belies how little you know, how much MSM propaganda you swallow, and how low your bar is for accepting something as fact. I suggest you read CN’s articles from the archives on MH17 and the so-called investigation. Another thing to keep in mind is that per Wikileaks vault 7 releases, the US intelligence agencies can fake point of origin. They can now make up anything and pin it on anyone. Keep that in mind as you watch the ongoing propaganda show from the MSM. I would also suggest that you watch Oliver Stone’s Putin interviews, and previous interviews and speeches of Putin’s. It is much fairer to form your own opinion from a man’s words and deeds than it is to rely on 3rd party interpretations.
You would think that someone like Patrick, so adept at noticing “good points” and “bad points” and reading about “both sides” of an issue could come up with a more cogent analysis of events or situations. But alas, he cannot. Plus he relies on a superficial and naive view that proliferating communications technology equates to the exposure and understanding of “truth”…. a ridiculous notion that ignores the relevance of how technology is used.
Gregory, Patrick is very smart, and he stays on his talking points until the ride is over. Patrick is either throughly convinced he’s right, or he’s a very good troll.
Every time Putin gets accused of aggression I can’t get pass the part of who has encircled who, and who has tightened the circle around the other with nuclear warhead armed missiles, and with every passing season this circle gets smaller and smaller. Who’s the aggressive one here?
When it comes to the terrible fate of Flight MH17, who benefited the most? Did Russia put sanctions on the West? Why did the Saudi’s lower the price of oil, and who did it hurt?
Lastly, when it comes to military budgets there is no better pretend foe to escalate your arms buildup over than….you got it, Russia. If military budgets exploded for my dad’s generation, then why not use the same format for my kids generation, and go after Russia as well? This year Russia cut it’s military spending by 25%, Trump increased the U.S. military spending by 10% of it’s already massive size of the U.S. budget being bigger than the next eight nations combined. If we just consider military spending as an example of aggression, then the U.S. and NATO win that title ‘aggressor’ hands down.
One more thing, listen to Mike Morell on Charlie Rose 8/8/16, where Morell talks about sending Assad and Putin a message. Then see the tragedies that have befallen on the Russians, passenger planes shot down, the Russian chorus plane downed, the ambassadors assassinated, and the strange car accident of Putin’s chauffeur….and don’t forget sarin gas attacks in Syria.
Now watch Patrick (if he so wishes) come and destroy everything I said. I will say this for Patrick’s appearance here, that it is comforting in a funny way, since I feel that sometimes we could use an argumentative display of opinion on this site to break up all of us agreeing with each other all of the time. Nothing wrong with agreeing, but a strong debate once in awhile will sharpen our thought processes to the fullest. So now go ahead Patrick and stomp all over my comment here, because your good at what you do, and you can do it.
Take care Gregory Joe
Joe,
Herman earlier made a valuable point about ignoring provocation and getting sidetracked from honest commentary…and you make a valuable point about debate and sharpening our thoughts. Patrick is “trolling”, being deliberately provocative, rather than engaging in thoughtful give-and-take about convictions and opposing views. Responding or not responding to such provocations (as I see them) comes down to a fine line sometimes. When someone spouts some impressions that reflect “talking points” suitable to CNN, or slander something worth defending, I think it is incumbent upon us to not just “let it stand” and give a fair rebuttal. Then, there comes a point when I just let it go. Trolls like Stiv and Michael Kenny, for instance, continue to ride in on their hobby horses…I have said my piece with them to no avail and am done with it. I probably lack graciousness and dignity at times and would prefer that weren’t so…but we are in a fight for our lives and the greater dignity of mankind, and part of that involves push-back on propaganda, fighting for truth and justice, as corny as that might sound to some.
Your sense about what constitutes “aggression” is clear and true as always Joe. And “cui bono?” is often the most intelligent question that can be asked. The CIA is noted for heavy-handed “messaging”, and you, as always, bring forth my admiration. Take care Joe.
Patrick seems to be trolling this site.
… with somebody else’s talking points.
I dare you provide us photos of Russian troops in Donbass not published by SBU :-)
Putin should shock Trump into reality. If the myth of American Exceptionalism is driving American foreign policy, then Putin must raise the stakes to test that myth, and he will. Pray brothers and sisters, the time is upon us.
As I said in a reply to Alastair Crooke’s piece, Putin needs to massage Trump’s ego and make him feel like the second coming of Ronald Reagan. Tell the Donald he’s got a chance to get favorable coverage in the history books, rather than seeing that literature ended in a nuclear conflagration, by renormalizing relations and making peace not war. With Trump being the supposed consummate businessman and self-proclaimed deal-maker of the century, Putin might tempt Trump with a pacel of economic development deals that would benefit both countries’ oligarchs (and secondarily, as usual, societal needs) whilst lessening the temptation to resort to those shiny new high-tech weapons of war. America wants world wide military hegemony, why not plant the seed of a world-wide trade association instead.
You advocate the rule of men, not the rule of law. Massage Trump’s ego? Isn’t that what France and other European powers did with Hitler?
I advocate human survival. Hitler did not have the capacity to end all life on the planet. It’s called getting past an impasse. Many things become possible in the future, if you can sustain that future. I, for one, am not willing to die on behalf of some other person’s interpretation of “the law.” That’s the Jihadist solution. And they believe their “law” comes from god.
Realist, first want you to know when I come across your commentary, I find it smart and, indeed, realist. Thanks for that…have been meaning to tell you for some time. As for Putin causing Trump himself (as he indicated in his campaign) to turn away from the US rush for regime change in Russia (crazy as that attempt would be) and even that persuasion succeeded with Trump, the PTB will not permit that. You have noticed I assume that the NYT and WaPo, et. al., always refer to Russia as a “known enemy” or “known adversary” and all the persuasion in the world will not change that attitude of the establishment that controls those media outlets. American must have endless war. People ask why don’t we ever win a war because they haven’t grasped the fact that losing over many years in another country actually is a win for our MIC. Why stop making money? Again, thank you for all your thoughtful comments.
OK. Here what I made for now. Unfortunately I cannot dub it right now. It is just impossible for me to get suitable environment at the moment and I simply unable to keep pace with the speakers in the program. I mean they are saying so fast sometimes and I cannot reproduce it in English. Anyway, I did my best with the subtitles. Unfortunately the program is completely outdated but I guess it is useful for you GUYS to get an example of our political talk-shows. Another thing is accuracy of the translation. Sorry for any mistakes though. Don’t judge too strict. I will do my best trying to dub it later, but cannot guarantee anything. This is the first part because Vimeo is not allow to upload more than 500MB per week with Free Account. Thus, I will upload the final 30 minutes next week. If you know any other way to display it for all who interested let me know, please. Thanks and be well!
https://vimeo.com/223910524
Good work, Alexandr. The program is from April 9th, discussing the “chemical attack by Assad”. I enjoy watching the Russian talk-shows, the speakers are usually very well prepared and keep to facts. You are right – they are speaking so fast that it is not so easy to comprehend. You obviously are a native Russian speaker, which I’m not, I just know the language reasonably well.
Vimeo might not be as popular as Youtube, can you create a youtube account for posting the show and other similar material there as well? There is plenty of material with Putin speeches and other appearances on Youtube, with English subtitles.
—- —- —-
Note for Patrick, who aroused some angry responses. I would appreciate if the commentators would refrain from name calling, even if you do not agree with someone. Please, just explain the facts as you see them, this will keep the level of the discussion high, which is normal for this site.
Quoting Patrick: “If Russia will increase military spending then this will cause a reaction.” Wasn’t it just the other way around? First came all the military bases along the Russian borders, then the reaction. Ukraine well integrated in EU structures? That will be a long wait. Withdrawing troops from Crimea? The Russian base and the troops on Crimea are not a new invention, they were there long before Ukraine was separated from the USSR. Ukraine consists of so many nationalities and languages that a federal form of the state would be preferable.
In your later comment you advocated reading the “truth” from both sides, which is quite right. But truth is normally not in the middle of two opposing viewpoints. It is not easy to see through all claims and accusations, and decide who is right.
“But truth is normally not in the middle of two opposing viewpoints…”
Thank you Lisa. The reaction in Crimea to the coup in Kiev is a case in point. Did the Crimeans generally and with good reason feel threatened by events in Kiev and make overtures towards the Russian Federation or did the Russian military do a “takeover” and force a coercive referendum? I won’t go into the contextual understandings that inform my view, but will agree that yes, it’s not always easy to grasp truth or ascertain facts, but sometimes a little sense and contextual understanding can go a long way towards separating the chaff from the wheat.
Crimea tried to declare independence in 1991 when the Soviet Union collapsed. Ukraine was happy to leave, but it was quite unwilling for anybody else to do the same thing. From the link:
http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/11/4376
The US and NATO essentially forced Russia into accepting Crimea’s petition for reunion with Russia, for a NATO base there would have been a disaster for Russia. But that was clearly what the neocons had in mind.
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/04/24/breaking-us-planned-to-turn-crimea-into-military-base-against-russia/
http://redpilltimes.com/u-s-navy-tender-construction-work-sevastopol-crimea-hints-u-s-military-coveted-controlling-historic-russian-peninsula/
Sorry, didn´t know, US navy is a charita organisation.
NATO was being questioned until Russia invaded Ukraine. After the invasion even the Ukrainians started to change their mind and became pro-NATO. Sweden, Norway and Finland are being pushed by Putins strategy to join also. As for Ukraine, I agree it will take 10-20 years,.. This may seem a long time for some people, but it is nothing in the course of history. Then Belarus will follow in its footsteps. Why is this unavoidable? Because people all over the world want a decent life and good education and healthcare,..and this cannot match with government-corruption and dictatorship.
A correction: Norway is a member of NATO. I follow closely the NATO discussion in Finland and Sweden. They are being pushed to join mainly by US persuasion, more successful in Sweden than in Finland. Sweden is far from its traditional neutrality. Still, neither country is near to join, although they participate in various NATO-related projects.
What do you mean by “Russia invaded Ukraine”? When did this happen?
“People want a decent life and good education and healthcare.” Right. What is preventing US to guarantee these things for their citizens? Government corruption, maybe? USSR had a very good educational system. Free health care. I experienced it on site, no, it was not without problems, but basic care was quite good. But that’s a long story.
I saw some Russian school kids who had moved to the West and were far ahead of their western counterparts, especially in math and sciences.
Belarus will never join the EU under Alexandr, you know that. And if they do after he leaves (most likely post mortem), Belarus will end the same way as Ukraine. In terms of economy and politics, Belarus is actually more similar to Russia. For Putin, Belarus was an example of sorts.
You’re correct with your statement that people all over the world want a decent life, good education and healthcare.
In the US as well as in Western Europe those elements are being dismantled successively. The US is on a faster track than Western Europe, but Western Europe is following nevertheless. The trend of union busting started in the US in the late 80’s. About ten years later this trend started in Western Europe. Privatization of schools and health care is no US phenomenon either. For years the service of health insurance had been reduced. For getting better treatment from dentists or in hospitals you have to get additional insurance from a private insurance company. The influx of refugees from the Middle East are an excellent excuse for raising fees for “failing” health insurance. Probably the poor language skills of the kids of refugees will be used as pretext to justify more private schools (which are partially state funded anyways). The lack of language skills of migrants had been used for pushing private institutions even before the refugee crises.
If things are going on as they did for the past decades, then Europe will be completely reach neo-feudal times (thanks to neo-liberalism) in 10-20 years.
Government corruption is a big issue that has to be addressed in the European Union, as well as dictatorship. For example: the Dutch voted against the ratification of the association agreement with Ukraine. Their parliament ratified the agreement despite the vote. Is this democracy? At least the Dutch were able to vote on that topic. I don’t know of any other country that permitted its citizens to follow the example of the Dutch at expressing their will. The European resembles some kind of dictatorship with lots of unelected bureaucrats who feel empowered to make decisions on behalf of the European citizens. Did you follow the negotiations of TTIP, TISA and CETA? European politicians and bureaucrats negotiating some secret contracts behind closed doors. That’s far from any democratic process.
With regard to corruption I would recommend to ask citizens of several European countries and they will be able to tell you of multiple examples.
I’m sure Putin knows how to play Trump.
This is not about Putin playing Trump or vice versus. It is about the possibility of the end of life as we know it on earth. The US is playing a reckless game. Russia lost 20 million citizens in WWII. If it was not for Russia, the allies would have lost, Hitler would have taken Britain and the rest of Europe.
Always found it interesting how Russians measured the level of succes and achievement by the amount of own people that were killed and not about the amount of Germans that were killed.
Germany invaded Russia with the intention of destroying her…and nearly did so. As Danny alluded to, had Russia not put up a valiant defense (enduring unfathomable sufferings), the course of the war would have looked much different. Your snide callousness is pathetic and reminds me of the deep-thinking American strategists in Vietnam who actually did measure “success” in terms of human death…they were obsessed with body counts of Vietnamese because they thought killing enough people would grant “victory”.
They “win” that count too. By a lot. They actually defeated capable German forces, not the live fire exercises Patton engaged in.
Sure but why not mention that Russia killed ex. 2.000.000 Germans,..or 200.000 Germans,..if you play a football match you also mention how many goals you made and not how many goals the opponents made, no?
Patrick in his ignorance believes that quantities of dead bodies are the sole metric by which one measures victory, and yet, the vast number of bodies in every war the US engages in are always those of its enemies, and yet the US somehow hasn’t seemed to have managed to win a war in some 70 or so years. Imagine that.
The irony is that ” Hitler” , that is, THOSE responsible for placing and empowering him (and Mussolini, the Generalisimo, Salazar, the Vichy regime, etc…) HAVE taken Britain, and Europe, AND the Americas, AND Australia and N.Z. These fascist/NAZI movements were hatched in the boardrooms of Synarchist financier cartels ( Poppy Bush’s dad was the Brown Brothers bagman for the struggling NAZI party in its early years), as the “strong antidote” to communism, which they ALSO launched the communist movement from their boardrooms, as justification for Fascism/NAZIism. It also served as a “facelift” for old Empires, now being unified in Modern times, into the Trans-Atlantic, Western Empire of City-of-London/Wall Street…a new sort of Roman Empire. Trump is sooo “small potatoes” in this big picture that it’s sad. He is perhaps 3 or 4 levels down from the REAL rulers of the World, and Putin defies their attempts to reign over the entire World. The Last holdout is that large Eurasian quarter of the globe. USA fell to the silent coup beginning in the late forties. The trap was sealed on Sept 11th, 2001. Everyone worried about Communists and NAZIs, NOBODY paid attention to the Synarchists, except FDR…he knew the long-term threat, after WWII was finished. His knowledge and policy died with him, and the ratlines begun.
You are correct Brad. The financial rulers, council of 300 etc., have “created ” wars and run the show for the past 150 years at least.
This current round of The People vs. The Oligarchy began in the 1690s when William of Orange moved into Britain from the Netherlands area along with a coterie VERY wealthy immigrants from Venice (the New Venetian Party that set up a base of operations in Netherlands to operate from the Atlantic, moving away from the Mediterranean area to launch the Venice Model of Empire upon the whole World), and set up the Central Bank. That was the beginning of the current round of Conflict. Subjects dutifully complied with their Overlords of oligarchy and colonized the World (the Dutch, French, Spanish, Portuguese were also busy colonizing the World). At the same time, republican philosophers were making the case for rule by the people. The American colonies put it into practice in 1776, sparking a rash of republican movements (“The Shot Heard ‘Round The World” and all that). Ever since, the wars have been various disguised versions of The People vs The Oligarchs. We finally fell to the oligarchs in the period from the late 1940s to Sept. 11th. The Eurasian Quarter, with half the world’s population, soldiers on, in resistance to Synarchist attempts to claim the entire World as their Empire. This is where matters stand at present. There is hope however, if the most powerful Province of the New Western Roman Empire (USA) breaks ranks once again, revives the Patriot Cause for The People, and joins Russia and China in their Belt & Road Initiative. This is a combination of Great Powers powerful enough to break the back of the financier oligarchs’ Empire. Otherwise, the Eurasian Quarter will eventually be ground down, as there are many oligarch-wannabees within their own ranks quite willing to undermine their resistance to Global Empire.
The article’s references to the ABM systems in Poland and Romania greatly understate the dangers. The article fails to mention the rather important fact that those “ABM” installations are in fact dual-use. As well as launching ABM interceptor missiles, they can be loaded with potentially nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. That is, the “ABM” systems could themselves launch a nuclear first strike against Russia – from just outside its very borders.
Mr Putin has made it as clear as anyone possibly could that, if Russia believes there is any possibility of the cruise missile scenario materializing, it will be obliged to obliterate the launch sites in self defence.
Fifth paragraph, Russia “cannot avoid seeing the ABM deployments as giving the U.S. the capability for a first strike”
Putin should be made aware that his military aggression will lead to more budget for NATO. Countries bordering Russia will want protection against Russian ‘tourists’ or ‘little green men’. If Russia will increase military spending then this will cause a reaction. And just a heads up: As soon as Ukraine is well integrated in EU structures then Belarus will follow in Ukrains footsteps. To change this path, Russia should change its foreign policy towards EU countries and withdraw troops from Ukraine (incl Crimea). Any EU citizen knows that the EU does not have the ambition to attack Russia. If the Russian threath is gone the link between US and EU will become weaker. Soft diplomacy will get Russia much further than military threaths.
Putin is aware that purported “Russian military threats” are NATO’s excuse for bigger military budgets.
Abe:
As Richard Sakwa very succintly put it, “NATO’s existence became justified by the need to manage the security threats provoked by its enlargement.”
Typo: My comment should read “succinctly” rather than “succinctly.”
Bad day: That should be “succinctly” rather than “succintly.” The software in the Comments section (unhelpfully) self-corrected the latter spelling.
Joe,
No need to apologise.
People who read these pages would know the correct spelling and what you meant to say and the others, the non-readers wouldn’t have seen your error and wouldn’t know what you were talking about anyway.
Haven’t read these pages for some time. Seems like there is a greater diversity of opinion in the responses than before. As for me, I find any article on Consortium understandable and well thought out.
However, replies to other people’s comments should not only be clearly stated as to whom they are referring but also be succinct.
Right Joe?
All EU countries are reacting the same. Not only NATO countries. Few people care about suicide rockets that will never be fired. But all people care about national borders being crossed by tanks and soldiers.
The only massing of tanks and soldiers has been by EU, not Russia. It is better to get the facts before reading or watching mass media; they are pure propaganda.
The EU has become a rather pathetic bunch, and their populations are constantly fed with anti-Russian paranoia based on nothing. I feel very sad and angry when I see that even countries like Sweden fall into the same warmongering hysteria. The propagandists do not even stop to think for one minute, what would be Russia’s interest in invading with tanks or bombing countries such as Finland, Sweden, Norway, or the Baltic States? Do you honestly think that Putin and the Russian leadership are stupid or irrational? The Soviet era is gone, but the USA needed to keep the scare alive at all costs, so that its military industrial complex kept reaping huge profits forever. Russia spends in its military 1/12 of what the Americans spend. Russia (the Soviet Union actually) has not invaded any European country since 1968. The US and its poodles destroyed Yugoslavia in the 1990’s, first by rooting for the Croats in their dispute with the Serbians, then by supporting the Muslim side in Bosnia-Herzegovina, and finally by bombing Serbia for two and a half months, day in, day out in 1999, courtesy of that great democrat, Bill Clinton. I hope that the EU will sooner rather than later realize that its total dependency from the USA has been a disaster all along.
So that’s the reason Ukrainian nationalists consider Kuban (Russia) and part of Poland Ukrainian territory?
All countries increased their budgets but not to the extent you post about. The funny thing is that Russia is modernising its military and reconstructing fleet (not increasing her military despite some claims but bettering it, since last modernisation happened under the USSR), but the West does play militarism. Militarism is preached in the MSM and all antiwar NGOs are silent.
Sounds like you have been imbibing too much MSM propaganda Patrick. Stick around CN and you might gain a clearer perspective about what’s really going on in Ukraine and Crimea. This BS about Russian aggression is word for word from propaganda central.
CN is just one of many sources of propaganda. Every newspaper in the East or West has a certain view on the situation. When it comes to eg. Crimea the western newspapers highlight the bad points, while the eastern newspapers highlight the good points. Important here is to read both sides and not stick to 1 side. The same is valid about Russia,..or Putin or Trump. There are good points and bad points. The moment you listen only to 1 side,..or you are allowed to listen only to 1 side, you are doomed.
So please let us know what facts you have about alleged Russian aggression. Not their new invisible armored divisions mercilessly unleashed on Ukraine without any photos or casualties. Not social media allegations. Not spammers verifying other highly reliable spammers.
Sorry but even Russian citizens already know this (at least all of the Russian people that I spoke to F2F). The question is not anymore IF the Russian military is in Donbas, but WHY it should stay there.
Let’s have the facts, Patrick. Many will be surprised if there have been significant numbers of Russian on-duty military staff or Russian divisions there. So far nothing at all has emerged. But a recent support effort would not be surprising when East Ukraine has been under siege so long by ethnic extremists from West Ukraine. What facts do you have?
So Patrick-
Which of these statements are false:
1) Crimea is majority ethnic Russian population. 77 pct claim Russian
as their “native” language.
2) Sevastopol has had a Russian Naval base since 1783.
3) Crimea became part of Ukraine in 1954, when Ukraine was an SSR.
4) Crimean citizens had a referendum to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia and the result was 95 pct in favor.
So your solution to this so called Russian aggression is for Russia to lick our boots, like all of our EU vassals do?
1) This is a classical Russian error. There is a difference between Russia and Russian language. Just like Austria is not Germany. Although the people in Austria speak German. There are many examples like this: Brazil is not Portugal, although they may speak Portuguese in Brazil. Spain cannot annex Mexico or claim that there are ethnic Spanish people in Mexico and then invade it. The ‘anschluss’ is a nice example of what was wrong with this. So using the argument that if a country has Russian speaking citizens, and then call them etnic Russians,…!? Boy if other countries would apply this reasoning the the world would really go crazy. Up next: the Netherlands are annexing the north of Belgium due to the etnic dutch people who are living there. Crazy,…and everytime Russians use language as an excuse to invade.
2) Dear lord, so with this reasoning the Americans can invade any country where they have a naval base?!?
3) Taking examples from history is always subjective as it is easy to pick another timeframe and say that Crimea has been mostly Turkish. Or that Russians are actualy etnic Ukrainians. What has been agreed about by all involved countries is that Crimea was Ukrainian.
4) This would have been a valid argument,…if only Putin would not have lost his temper and instead played it slowly. An internationally recognized, honest, objective referendum would most likely have been won by the pro-Russia party. It could have taken 2 years to set up,…but it would have been much easier to defend. The approach to send in LGM and have military in the streets and organize a ‘referendum’ in 2 weeks without objective international observers was meaningless. And what is worse, I think that this opportunity is gone forever because of the current oppression on the native population of Crimea. Dissident voices are hunted down and expelled which makes another referendum impossible to accept.
The solution does not involve any bootlicking but intelligence, patience, perseverance and a lot of soft skills. In the 21st century countries are not conquered by military power anymore but by persuasion, communication, laws, financial means, deals and agreements,… Look at Scotland, look at Catalonia,.. Agree that it doesn’t go fast, but it goes peaceful and nobody will question the honesty and correctness of the voting numbers if international observers are present. International respect is not earned by military aggresion but by mature diplomacy.
Patrick-
The first three points are to support the fourth. Taken together they justify Russia accepting the Crimean referendum.
The 77 percent think of themselves as Russian and many have relatives inside Russia because they have been linked until so recent a time. Your call for patience would have led to more death and suffering. I personally think Putin should have took back all of eastern Ukraine that sought to free themselves from the Kiev Nazis.
The USA has been poking the Russian bear on purpose and is trying to encircle them, promote regime change, and install another puppet like Yeltsin. Putin enjoys popular support in Russia because he chooses to stand up to our aggression. If we are to survive as a species, we must learn to wage peace in a multi-polar world. The PNAC is a plan to get us all killed. Your sophistry is transparent. You should try another site with less well informed readers.
May I add a map, so everybody can see what Ukraine would look like without the help of the Russian tsars and the bolshevik leaders Lenin and Stalin.
https://russianuniverse.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/territories-annexed-to-ukraine.jpg
When Khrushchev gave away Crimea to Ukraine (without asking the population) both were still part of one countryn the USSR, and of course in Crimea there lived mostly Russians.
Patrick, It will be worthwhile for you to study the history and make up of some other countries like India. There are many other countries constituted in a similar way.
India has 29 states based more or less on languages. But there are no clear cut boundaries where you can differentiate the people. The only fact is that they have lived together under different empires – small and big. They have to function as an organic unit. To separate them into different countries will be catastrophic. British divided it, and created Pakistan based on religion, and it was catastrophic with millions migrating across the borders, and the carnage which followed resulting in death and destruction. And the conflict is still there. Only solution there is to join them together – at least commercially and culturally. They are the same people, divided by religion.
So is Ukraine. It was a mistake to separate them from Russia as a separate country – at least the Southeastern Ukraine including Crimea. They had lived together before 1200 A.D., and The South East Ukraine has been part of Russia again since 1655 A.D. again, and Crimea since 1785 A.D. If Ukraine was created as a Country by accident for the first time in history, its leaders should have been wise enough to have a federal constitution. Instead they set about banning the Russian language, change their names, banning their history books, and so on.
Regarding your Tatar/Turks on Crimea, Turks moved there during fifteenth century and the Turks moved into Turkey as well during fifteenth century, It was Greek Anatolia before. Americans moved to U.S., most of them during the last two centuries or so.
It seems to me that these East Europeans and the Balkans, what I see of their leaders, they are so happy to stand beside the leaders of Germany, Belgium, Holland, Britain, and other Western Europeans in Brussels and elsewhere as if they have joined some superior club – also to come to Washington and pay homage here as well. I am sure you are aware that America is going to be a nonwhite country before 2040 A.D.. And you can visualize what it is going to be like by the end of the century. And Europe is going to go through similar transformation but at a slower rate.
The government in Kiev is NeoNazi – a Fascist Regime. There is no place for this Fascism in twenty first century. It is good for people to open their eyes and see what is coming – and try to find some solutions. Just like the Nazis before, this NeoCon ordered World The West want to create will pass into the dust bin of History as well
Well, it seems that Patrick has no idea about Europeans, Ukrainians and Russians but likes to discuss their problems for them. Sadly, these are precisely the type of people who drop nuclear bombs and start world wars. Mr. smartypants, what is U.S. doing in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria attacking their locals?
On what planet have you been living since 1991?
JD, whom of the above are you addressing please?
Follow the vertical,line to the left of his comment. It goes to Patrick, alright?
You are a warmonger.
I’m through coddling those who constantly repeat the MIC and Clintonista NeoCon propaganda to ratchet up antipathy with Russia, excusing American aggression constantly.
You, sir, are a warmonger and if we get into a shooting war with Russia you are to blame, along with all others of your ilk, for all the death that will pursue. Have you at last, sir, no decency?
Miranda, Perhaps this site’s software is defective, but I do not see whom you are addressing. Would you please clarify? Thnx.
Why not take a hike to clarify your understanding, rather than spam the website with fake misunderstandings, to avoid having to support your insinuations with facts and argument? You don’t fool readers here, and they are not so immature as to think such remarks humorous.
John …. I see your complaint. But, notice the faint little line off to the left. That allows you to trace back up, to see who is responding to whom.
Miranda is addressing Patrick, who has no concept of facts….that pesky word that propagandists ignore. He has accepted that Russia is aggressive when in fact Putin/Russia is the opposite of the most aggressive country on earth or that has ever been on earth, the United States. Patrick doesn’t know that Russia has had its Crimea base for many, many years; Russia didn’t invade Sevastopol, the Russian military soldiers were already there. Now NATO is pushing up to the boundary of Russia from many points, a real threat to Russia. Hilary was after regime change there, too. Remember her words, Gaddafi must go, Assad must go. Who is hell does she thing she is (with her consorts, Victoria Nuland and Nicky Haley)? Now Trump, bungler that he is, will probably do ahead with her plans, though he won’t even know why, stupid as he is. Well, actually, he is the natural order of presidents who have been heading toward the NWO that the US, of course, will be the undisputed head (they think). Personally, I wouldn’t mind if Russia did make a first strike before the US which, believe, intends to do….right after they destroy another innocent country, Iran.
Shooting war between the West and Russia using missiles? Don’t think that it will happen as it would be suicide for both parties. If there would be winning parties, it would be the Chinese who will, after a nuclear attack, occupy all of Russia and annex it to China. And Latin America & Mexico who will take back North-America. The dominant languages will then be Chinese and Spanish. Neither party will start this. So as the EU citizens are not willing to risk their comfortable lives for a geopolitical local warzone in Donbas, the only thing what will happen is for the etnic slavic nationals to kill themselves. Ukrainian slavs versus Russian slavs. Or Baltic slavs versus Russian slavs. And the west just stirs the pot and critizes Putin for his international policy. So either way, the Russian speaking persons will die, if not on short-term by a bullit then on long-term by the reduced birthrate. This should change ASAP!
Patrick, I think you are playing others by being deliberately outrageous and absurd. You have the right to your opinions and others have a right to ignore them. My hope is that the site doesn’t get too many Patrick’s and readers don’t allow themselves to be sidetracked from honest commentary.
Warmonger? I’d say “amateur propagandist” would be a better description. Very amateur.
I think he might be a Ukrainian expat. I’m not trying to insult Ukrainians, it’s just 80% of people writing such things are Ukrainians watching too much Ukrainian TV. To be fair, you can find some Russians writing gibberish watching too much Russian TV.
Russia has been duped by the imperialist powers of the West. More budget for NATO, as we have seen within the last decade or more, goes unabated, Russia or no Russia.
Hannah Arrendt spoke of the power of persuasion versus the power of force. Putin sees imperial force and rightly so.
Few know that the OUN/B in Ukraine is an openly fascist party. This week they are celebrating the figure who murdered 100,000 Poles. and your answer is to allow this to continue, that Putin should capitulate to Nazi’s and SS sympathizers?
Soft diplomacy for russia means that Russia, in your world, is engaged in force. Nothing could be further from the truth. Russia is in the cross hairs of American imperialism as are the Baltics, Ukraine, Crimea and more.
So what would your soft ‘force’for Russia look like?
The EU is run by Germany and Germany has lost war after war with Russia. To say the citizens of the EU do not wish to attack Russia is one thing; but to say that their phony leaders do not, is another.
You offer no way out. and you blame Russia for the irresponsibility and war crimes of the West.
Patrick … you said : “Any EU citizen knows that the EU does not have the ambition to attack Russia”
>>>>
Didn’t you read Ray McGovern’s article? Russia is not worried about EU ambitions. They are worried about a first strike from the US ambitions. And, then having all of the Russian missile response shot down by the nearby NATO ABM systems, all of them directed against Russia, and all of them placed their since 2001.
The Russian “aggression” (as you say) in Ukraine and Crimea was nothing more than self defense, to prevent another ABM system from being deployed even closer.
It is the EU that started down “this path” (as you say), allowing the ABM systems to be placed in their countries in the first place. That sounds to me to be pretty “ambitious” (as you say).
Come on Dave, let’s think about this a bit deeper. Take the worst case scenario for Russia and the best case scenario for the US and be realistic. If Russia would be completely bombed at first, surprise, strike and the US would not get a single bomb, what would the US have won? >nothing! They will have unleashed the yellow dragon. Due to its geographical location China will sent in no time 100.000.000 comrads on fully packed trains to its north as peacekeeper, or as rescuesoldiers, …whatever. Case closed. Advantage for US would be zero. So the entire discussion about missile threath to Russia is silly.
Patrick, We would be better off thinking of solutions for the Nations of the World to live together instead of showing off that we are smarter than the others in playing with these words. Enough of it. Spend your time in some other useful ways.
A country as large as Russia bombed with a first strike (surprise attack) would probably result in some kind of nuclear winter. Maybe it wouldn’t be as extensive as the one resulting of an all out war, but it would cause for some “inconveniences” on a worldwide scale. Aside from some climate effects there would be another side-effect called radiation. Humans and radiation don’t go well along. The idea of a one-sided attack, without any counter-strike is unrealistic anyways. As long as Russian submarines are in the waters the US will lose a few million civilians as well.
There’s no such thing as EU citizenship, there’s no EU passport. It’s the notion EU politicians started to use some time ago and now mostly with Brexit.
Did you post this as joke?
No one in here is dumb enough to believe typical MSM BS.
Hey Patrick, what planet are you living on? If you believe that Putin changing any policy it has towards EU countries would encourage the Americans to be nicer to Russia, then you must be smoking some seriously strong scag!! What Russia should do is put nukes in space right over the top of America and Europe and then tell them to get off Russia’s back!!
Patrick,
you’re correct that Russia should change its foreign policy towards the EU. Russia should start to focus on strengthening its own economy and then stop oil and gas exports towards the EU as soon as possible. It’s not the Russians problem where Europeans get their energy from.
Your demand that Russia should withdraw troops from Crimea seems to be unrealistic. After two failed attempts to secede, they held a referendum in 2014 and finally managed to break free from Ukraine. The decision to join the Russian Federation had been a decision of Crimean’s only. If this includes the permission for Russian troops to be stationed on the soil of that island, then it’s perfectly legal.
With regard to Ukraine being well integrated in EU structures I’m very skeptical. That country is a failed state and it had been a great blunder for our EU politicians to permit visa free travel. I can’t speak for the citizens of other countries, but when it comes to the official dates for the collection of bulky waste in Germany, you can see many transporters from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and some other Eastern European countries cruising the streets on the hunt for usable items. I’m also not very pleased by the idea that Europe (namely the taxpayers, which translates into the middle class and those below) has to invest heavily into the failed state called Ukraine. It will take decades to integrate that country. Europe has enough problems and doesn’t need any additional ones.
When it comes to military spending I’m not worried at all. We – the West – are wasting too much money on weapons and personnel anyway. Russia would’ve to bankrupt itself to catch up with us, so if they’re increasing their spending a few dollars it won’t make a difference at all. NATO outspends Russia tenfold.
Apparently someone is unaware that the coup in the Ukraine was perpetrated with the financial aid and covert intelligence assistance of the CIA and US State Dept. Or perhaps you are referring to “Russian aggression” in Georgia, a conflict for which a UN investigation concluded that Georgia was the aggressor. What other “Russian aggression” do you care to cite?
I would like to know what incident/incidents will trigger the inevitable WW 3?
Probably, bungling. A mistake, an accident, too many balls in the air and the juggler loses his grip. Sure, it could be malevolence, but incompetence among the human race I think, will be the inevitable incident.
Too many space rocks intersecting Earth’s orbit.
All it will take is one hitting a sensitive site at a time
of heightened international tensions (i.e. anytime).
Yesterday (June 30th) is designated Asteroid Day
in recognition of the 1908 impact, on June 30th, of
whatever hit the Stony Tunguska Region of Siberia.
Had the Earth rotated three and a half more hours
before impact, the 2000 square kilometers laid waste
would not have been remote Siberian taiga, but rather
the metropolis of St. Petersburg (where Lenin lived then).
Chelyabinsk is a more minor but much more recent impact.
What was not reported — and what most people don’t know —
is that we are very fortunate the impact did not take out the
nearby Shagol Air Base, a large military installation . . .
Actually Irina, I would hope Putin will tell Trump that American is in violation of the non aggression treaty and put nukes into space right over the top of America and Europe. He has every right. If he threatened this the Yanks might be inclined to take their missiles away from the Russian boarders.
Hi John, I agree missiles should not be placed near the border of a country. It will only lead to instability. What’s your view on military basis near the border? Thinking about fighter aircraft that can fly stealth at mach2 and carry a nuclear bomb with it. I tend to feel the same way about it, how about you?
On 29 June 2017, senior officials of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) Technical Secretariat circulated the final report of the Fact Finding Mission (FFM) concerning the 4 April 2017 incident in Khan Shaykhun among the five permanent United Nations Security Council members.
The OPCW-UN Joint Investigative Mechanism (JIM) in Syria will now investigate the circumstances of the crime and identify the culprits under UN Security Council resolutions 2235 (2015) and 2319 (2016).
The Trump Administration’s ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki R. Haley, issued her own news release stating that she had the “highest confidence in the OPCW report”.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation commented on “the hasty reaction of the United States Ambassador”
http://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/2805160
The Russians were not surprised that the report confirmed the fact that sarin or a similar toxic agent was used in the area.
However, the Russians objected to statements in the report that “indirectly prompt readers who are unaware of all circumstances of this case to draw only one conclusion: Syrian government forces are responsible” for the high-profile incident in Khan Shaykhun.
Russia is prepared to voice its concerns during a special session of the OPCW’s Executive Council scheduled for 5 July 5 2017, and at the UN Security Council meeting on the issue.
The Russian Foreign Ministry comment specifically states:
“an initial examination of this document prompts us to state that its conclusions are still based on rather dubious data obtained from the Syrian opposition and the so-called NGOs, including the White Helmets. This data was obtained in some neighbouring country, rather than at the site. Therefore, it is hardly surprising that the contents of the OPCW Special Mission’s report are largely biased, which suggests that the activities of this organisation are politically motivated.
“It is to be hoped that our JIM colleagues will display the utmost professionalism and political impartiality during their upcoming investigation of the high-profile incident in Khan Shaykhun and expose the real culprits guilty of committing this crime. The same goes for other incidents in the endless reoccurrence of chemical terrorist attacks in Syria and the entire Middle East region. We also hope that JIM experts will visit the site of this chemical attack, as well as Syria’s Shayrat Airbase which is being persistently but groundlessly linked with this attack. As the latest events show, this base continues to disturb Washington.”
The high-profile incident in Khan Shaykhun in April 2017 was coordinated for maximum propaganda effect to coincide with the 20th anniversary of the Chemical Weapons Convention.
The Chemical Weapons Convention, which became binding international law on 29 April 1997, contains four key provisions:
– destroying all existing chemical weapons under international verification by the OPCW;
– monitoring chemical industry to prevent new weapons from re-emerging;
– providing assistance and protection to States Parties against chemical threats; and
– fostering international cooperation to strengthen implementation of the Convention and promote the peaceful use of chemistry.
The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) is the implementing body of the Chemical Weapons Convention. The OPCW is responsible for verification of compliance with the Convention and maintenance of a forum for consultations and cooperation among States Parties.
To date, only three UN member states (Egypt, North Korea, South Sudan) and one non-member observer state i(Palestine) have neither signed the Chemical Weapons Convention nor acceded to it. Egypt has promised to ratify the Convention if Israel, the only state in the Middle East that is known to possess nuclear weapons, signs the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
Israel is the only UN member state that has signed (13 January 1993) but not ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention. Israel has known stockpiles of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. Israel is unwilling to grant OPCW inspectors access to its military bases.
Syria has signed (14 September 2013) and ratified (14 October 2013) the Chemical Weapons Convention. In the year ending September 2014, the OPCW had overseen the destruction of some 97 percent of Syria’s declared chemical weapons.
The Khan Shaykhun chemical incident and similar incidents since 2012 present a pattern of terrorist perpetrated attacks designed to provide propaganda support for the Al Qaeda and ISIS forces that have attacked and occupied areas of Syria.
Known launderers of Al Qaeda and ISIS propaganda include the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), Eliot Higgins and Dan Kaszeta of the UK-based Brown Moses and Bellingcat blogs, and the White Helmets organization created in Turkey by James Le Mesurier, an ex-British Army Officer.
The OPCW in The Hague turns a blind eye to the Israeli chemical weapons activities.
Karel Knip, science editor in the Dutch daily NRC Handelsblad, took several years to discover the facts of Israel’s Weapons of mass Destruction (WMD) during his investigation of the El Al Flight LY 1862 crash.
The Israel Institute for Biological Research (IIBR) facility near Tel Aviv was receiving the components of nerve gas weapons aboard El Al Flight LY 1862 that crashed outside Amsterdam on October 4, 1992.
The El Al aircraft left Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport on route to Tel Aviv, carrying three crewmen, one passenger and 114 tons of freight. Seven minutes later, it crashed in a high-rise apartment complex in Bijlmer.
The crash of El Al Flight LY 1862 became the worst air disaster in Dutch history, killing at least 47 (the actual number is unknown because many victims were immigrants) and destroyed the health of 3000 Dutch residents. Cases of mysterious illnesses, rashes, difficulty in breathing, nervous disorders and cancer began to sprout in that neighborhood and beyond.
Knip first found out that the plane was carrying 50 gallons of DMMP a substance used to make a quarter ton of the deadly nerve gas Sarin. The shipment from Solkatronic Chemicals of Morrisville, Pennsylvania to IIBR was sent to Israel under a US Department of Commerce licence in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) to which the US, but not Israel, is party.
The Dutch government, in collusion with Israel, lied to its citizens saying the plane was carrying perfumes and flowers. In April 1998 again Israel denied there had been dangerous chemicals on board, but in Oct 1998 it was revealed that the plane was carrying 10 tons of chemicals used in the most dangerous of the known nerve gases, Sarin.
In a 4 October 1998 interview with The London Sunday Times, a former biologist at Israel Institute for Biological Research said “There is hardly a single known or unknown form of chemical or biological weapon … which is not manufactured at the institute.”
Knip published on 27 November 1999 the most detailed and factual published investigation about the workings of chemical and biological terrorism housed in IIBR.
The shipment from Solkatronic Chemicals of Morrisville, Pennsylvania to IIBR was under US Department of Commerce licence, contrary to the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) to which the US, but not Israel, is party.
Knip reviewed the scientific literature produced by IIBR and the microbiology departments of the Faculty of Medicine in the University of Tel Aviv and the Hebrew University since 1950. He was able to identify 140 scientists involved in biological weapons (BW) research. The number could be more as scientists have dual positions or they move around. Many take their sabbaticals invariably in the United States.
There are strong links between IIBR and Walter Reed Army Institute, the Uniformed Services University, the American Chemical and Biological Weapons (CBW) Center in Edgewood and the University of Utah.
Knip was able to identify three categories of IIBR production: diseases, toxins and convulsants, and their development in each decade of the five previous decades.
The IIBR research moved from virus and bacteria to toxins because they are many times more poisonous. Nerve gases known as Tabun, Soman, Sarin, VX, Cyclo-Sarin, RVX and Amiton are all deadly gases and function in the same way.
Knip sought the assistance of experts in this field such as Professor Julian Perry Robinson, University of Sussex, Brighton, Dr Jean Pascal Zanders of SIPRI, Stockholm and Professor Malcolm Dando, University of Bradford. The scientists guided his research and explained his findings.
Knip discovered close cooperation between IIBR and the British-American Biological Weapons program as well as extensive collaboration on Biological Weapons research with Germany and Holland. That is probably the reason for the Dutch official silence over the deadly crash over Amsterdam.
The cooperation with the US is quite open. The Congress “Joint Medical, Biological and Nuclear Defence Research Programs” openly lists cooperation with Israel on nerve agents and convulsants under the guise of finding antidotes. Documents from the US Defense Department’s Office for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics confirm the frequent contributions of Dr Avigdor Shafferman, IIBR director.
Despite extensive evidence of Israeli development of WMD, including Sarin and other chemical weapons, mainstream media and Western government refuse to consider Israel’s means, motive, and opportunity to enable false flag chemical attacks in Syria.
The sentence “The Chemical Weapons Convention, which became binding international law on 29 April 1997, contains four key provisions:” made me smile. Binding international law doesn’t mean anything nowadays – never had meant anything anyways.
When people talk about Chemical and Biological Weapons they keep in mind some facts:
– the fate of the SS John Harvey
– Agent Orange (used in Vietnam)
– Napalm (used in Vietnam)
– the Anthrax incidents, shortly after 9/11 (exposing ongoing US bio weapons research)
– depleted uranium ammunition (used in former Yugoslavia, Iraq and Syria)
Probably the list is far longer. The above listed instances are those known of (Iraq’s use of Chemical weapons on Kurds not included).
A few years ago I had read about the collaboration of the US with several African countries in the field of bio weapons research. The articles that I had read alleged that the research facilities were operated by specific African countries, but that the results were shared with the US. Maybe it’s nothing more than allegations, maybe there’s more to these articles. Probably it’s worth doing some intensive research on that topic.
The high-profile incident in Khan Shaykhun in April 2017 was coordinated for maximum propaganda effect to coincide with the 20th anniversary of the Chemical Weapons Convention.
The Chemical Weapons Convention, which became binding international law on 29 April 1997, contains four key provisions:
– destroying all existing chemical weapons under international verification by the OPCW;
– monitoring chemical industry to prevent new weapons from re-emerging;
– providing assistance and protection to States Parties against chemical threats; and
– fostering international cooperation to strengthen implementation of the Convention and promote the peaceful use of chemistry.
The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) is the implementing body of the Chemical Weapons Convention. The OPCW is responsible for verification of compliance with the Convention and maintenance of a forum for consultations and cooperation among States Parties.
To date, only three UN member states (Egypt, North Korea, South Sudan) and one non-member observer state i(Palestine) have neither signed the Chemical Weapons Convention nor acceded to it. Egypt has promised to ratify the Convention if Israel, the only state in the Middle East that is known to possess nuclear weapons, signs the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
Israel is the only UN member state that has signed (13 January 1993) but not ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention. Israel has known stockpiles of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. Israel is unwilling to grant OPCW inspectors access to its military bases.
Syria has signed (14 September 2013) and ratified (14 October 2013) the Chemical Weapons Convention. In the year ending September 2014, the OPCW had overseen the destruction of some 97 percent of Syria’s declared chemical weapons.
The Khan Shaykhun chemical incident and similar incidents since 2012 present a pattern of terrorist perpetrated attacks designed to provide propaganda support for the Al Qaeda and ISIS forces that have attacked and occupied areas of Syria.
Known launderers of Al Qaeda and ISIS propaganda include the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), Eliot Higgins and Dan Kaszeta of the UK-based Brown Moses and Bellingcat blogs, and the White Helmets organization created in Turkey by James Le Mesurier, an ex-British Army Officer.
The OPCW in The Hague turns a blind eye to the Israeli chemical weapons activities.
Karel Knip, science editor in the Dutch daily NRC Handelsblad, took several years to discover the facts of Israel’s Weapons of mass Destruction (WMD) during his investigation of the El Al Flight LY 1862 crash.
The Israel Institute for Biological Research (IIBR) facility near Tel Aviv was receiving the components of nerve gas weapons aboard El Al Flight LY 1862 that crashed outside Amsterdam on October 4, 1992.
The El Al aircraft left Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport on route to Tel Aviv, carrying three crewmen, one passenger and 114 tons of freight. Seven minutes later, it crashed in a high-rise apartment complex in Bijlmer.
The crash of El Al Flight LY 1862 became the worst air disaster in Dutch history, killing at least 47 (the actual number is unknown because many victims were immigrants) and destroyed the health of 3000 Dutch residents. Cases of mysterious illnesses, rashes, difficulty in breathing, nervous disorders and cancer began to sprout in that neighborhood and beyond.
Knip first found out that the plane was carrying 50 gallons of DMMP a substance used to make a quarter ton of the deadly nerve gas Sarin. The shipment from Solkatronic Chemicals of Morrisville, Pennsylvania to IIBR was sent to Israel under a US Department of Commerce licence in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) to which the US, but not Israel, is party.
The Dutch government, in collusion with Israel, lied to its citizens saying the plane was carrying perfumes and flowers. In April 1998 again Israel denied there had been dangerous chemicals on board, but in Oct 1998 it was revealed that the plane was carrying 10 tons of chemicals used in the most dangerous of the known nerve gases, Sarin.
In a 4 October 1998 interview with The London Sunday Times, a former biologist at Israel Institute for Biological Research said “There is hardly a single known or unknown form of chemical or biological weapon … which is not manufactured at the institute.”
Knip published on 27 November 1999 the most detailed and factual published investigation about the workings of chemical and biological terrorism housed in IIBR.
The shipment from Solkatronic Chemicals of Morrisville, Pennsylvania to IIBR was under US Department of Commerce licence, contrary to the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) to which the US, but not Israel, is party.
Knip reviewed the scientific literature produced by IIBR and the microbiology departments of the Faculty of Medicine in the University of Tel Aviv and the Hebrew University since 1950. He was able to identify 140 scientists involved in biological weapons (BW) research. The number could be more as scientists have dual positions or they move around. Many take their sabbaticals invariably in the United States.
There are strong links between IIBR and Walter Reed Army Institute, the Uniformed Services University, the American Chemical and Biological Weapons (CBW) Center in Edgewood and the University of Utah.
Knip was able to identify three categories of IIBR production: diseases, toxins and convulsants, and their development in each decade of the five previous decades.
The IIBR research moved from virus and bacteria to toxins because they are many times more poisonous. Nerve gases known as Tabun, Soman, Sarin, VX, Cyclo-Sarin, RVX and Amiton are all deadly gases and function in the same way.
Knip sought the assistance of experts in this field such as Professor Julian Perry Robinson, University of Sussex, Brighton, Dr Jean Pascal Zanders of SIPRI, Stockholm and Professor Malcolm Dando, University of Bradford. The scientists guided his research and explained his findings.
Knip discovered close cooperation between IIBR and the British-American Biological Weapons program as well as extensive collaboration on Biological Weapons research with Germany and Holland. That is probably the reason for the Dutch official silence over the deadly crash over Amsterdam.
The cooperation with the US is quite open. The Congress “Joint Medical, Biological and Nuclear Defence Research Programs” openly lists cooperation with Israel on nerve agents and convulsants under the guise of finding antidotes. Documents from the US Defense Department’s Office for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics confirm the frequent contributions of Dr Avigdor Shafferman, IIBR director.
Despite extensive evidence of Israeli development of WMD, including Sarin and other chemical weapons, mainstream media and Western government refuse to consider Israel’s means, motive, and opportunity to enable false flag chemical attacks in Syria.
On 28 June 2017, the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) released its assessment report on “Russia Military Power”
http://www.dia.mil/News/Articles/Article/1232488/defense-intelligence-agency-releases-russia-military-power-assessment/
“Within the next decade, an even more confident and capable Russia could emerge. The United States needs to anticipate, rather than react, to Russian actions and pursue a greater awareness of Russian goals and capabilities to prevent potential conflicts,” said Lt. Gen. Vincent Stewart, DIA director.
The first unclassified Soviet Military Power assessment was published in 1981 and was translated into eight languages and distributed around the world as an annual report in the 80’s, until the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.
The 2017 military power report series includes analysis of foreign national security strategies, military doctrines, force structures, and core military capabilities, including nuclear forces, biological and chemical weapons, underground facilities, space/counterspace and cyber operations.
http://www.dia.mil/Portals/27/Documents/News/Military%20Power%20Publications/Russia%20Military%20Power%20Report%202017.pdf
The article does well to encourage Trump to think about escalation. He would score a victory indeed by resuming or renegotiating the ABM treaty.
DIA Dir. Stewart echoes the classic excuse for escalation “The United States needs to anticipate, rather than react, to Russian actions” which “greater awareness” has in the past has not tended “to prevent potential conflicts.”
A treaty would be great. However the senate will NEVER pass such a treaty IMO.
The present Senate may not, but they would be severely embarrassed at the polls if they did not. The public sees through saber-rattling, warmongering, and bullying far more easily than tyrants suppose. Especially when confronted with the lack of health care and other advantages due to foolish military spending.
Nor will Trump encourage it to.