Dropping the (Non-Nuclear) Big One

After pounding “war on terror” targets for 15-plus years, the U.S. military dropped its “mother of all bombs” on some caves in Afghanistan, a show-off of its terrifying weapon, peace activist Kathy Kelly told Dennis J Bernstein.
By Dennis J Bernstein

Just back from Afghanistan, Kathy Kelly, co-founder of Voices for Creative Nonviolence, says the consequences of U.S. military interventions across the Middle East and into Africa now include the spreading of starvation to some 16 million people.

But the U.S. government’s reaction has been to drop even more tonnage of bombs on some of these countries, including the deployment of the “mother of all bombs,” the world’s most devastating non-nuclear explosive dropped on Afghanistan on April 13, the day I interviewed Kelly.

A devastated neighborhood in the Yemeni capital of Sanaa after an airstrike, October 9, 2015. (Wikipedia)

Dennis Bernstein: This is a very troubling day, in U.S. history, and for the people of Afghanistan. The U.S. military has dropped a 21,600 pound bomb on a tunnel complex it says was “used by Islamic State militants in Afghanistan” – that’s coming out of the government. The GBU-43B Massive Ordnance Air Blast bomb, or MOAB, known as the mother of all bombs – the largest non-nuclear bomb ever used by the U.S. in a conflict. The massive ordnance was dropped from a U.S. aircraft in Nangarhar Province. The “bunker buster” bomb is so huge it can’t be delivered by a normal bomber aircraft, but instead needs to be put in a cargo plane. Its blast radius is up to a mile.

Joining us to talk about this, and a lot that is surrounding it, is Kathy Kelly. You know a lot about what’s going on in Afghanistan. You returned from their about a week ago, and you have spent a lot of time there in the past few years. Your response?

Kathy Kelly: I came back from Afghanistan on April 6th. And I think about all the military people who have itchy fingers. They have a huge bomb and they want to experiment with it in some place other than a remote desert. It seems incredibly obscene to imagine that they would pick Afghanistan. Supposedly they have to pick a place where there’s a war going on already. And it seems like maybe the President has said I’m really not all that interested in your decisions, or the briefings in the mornings. And so, this was their chance, and they took it. The excuse given is that there are tunnels there.

But you know, many of us can remember when we were told that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and this justified the Shock and Awe bombings. And there weren’t any weapons of mass destruction to be found. And, I wonder, maybe those tunnels would never be found because they’ve all been blasted away. But that kind of rationale, it seems to me is so cruel.

I mean, suppose the United States were to transport its fighters and its weapons through tunnels, weapons like the one you just described, or weapons like the AC-130 Transport planes, weapons like the Apache helicopters that fire Hellfire missiles, I mean all this weaponry has gone into Afghanistan now since 2001. Suppose it had come in through tunnels, those tunnels would have to be the size of the Grand Canyon. And I’m not saying that we should ever legitimize armed struggle on the part of fighters who might be coming across from Pakistan, or might be coming from other countries, into Afghanistan.

But I think we have to recognize that the warlord that has spent billions of dollars, massive amounts of TNT, displaced millions of people–that’s the United States. And now we’ve hit people during a time when they’re already burdened down, on their knees, flattened almost, by environmental problems, by poisoned water, by air that nearly can’t be breathed, by 1.5 million refugees inside the country, 1.8 million that might be shoved back in, collapsing health care, collapsing education. And when I was there most recently, and inside refugee camps, it could break your heart to see how wretched the conditions are. And I was with beautiful, bright-eyed little girls. And I thought – what kind of future do they have?

DB: Just to say a little bit more about this bomb because this is fantastic, in the worst sense of it. Reading a little bit more, its principle effect is a massive blast wave said to stretch for a mile in every direction, created by an 18,000lb, I guess explosion, equal to 18,000lb of TNT. And they call it the bunker busting bomb. It’s designed to damage underground facilities. The weapon costs $16 million a shot. What could you do with $16 million and that camp you were in recently, Kathy?

KK: Well, of course, the expenditure on weaponry at a time when there’s so much massive need – I’m in New York because of a fast to call attention to Yemen, which is in a conflict where [there are] near-starvation conditions. And the same is true for three countries near the Horn of Africa: Somalia, South Sudan, Nigeria. And for the United States to be spending money on these kinds of bombs…

You know, I think the “mother of all bombs” is greed. Greed is the mother of all bombs…I think the very notion that they would drop this bomb after one of the U.S. soldiers was killed in a special operations raid is also very frightening, this disproportionate response. And when do U.S. people ever get a chance to think about what the night raids are like for the people whose homes are broken into, whose futures might be shattered by just one night raid?

DB: This notion of disproportionate response, I mean, it really does feel like a bit of Israeli influence. You know, the Palestinians shoot a rocket across the border, it misses everything, and then there’s 2,000 Palestinians dead. And it’s the lesson, it’s sort of, I guess, this is the new world order. Trump wants people to know he’s tough and at the same time they can test a lot of their new weapons. Is that too cynical? First I’m crying, you know Kathy, first I’m crying and then the fury sets in, and it’s incomprehensible. But, you’ve been there and you’ve seen who the people are that we are destroying. And, I don’t know. I’m sorry, go on, I interrupted.

KK: Well, you can certainly bet that people are very, very frightened of what’s going to be rained down on them from the skies above. As I mentioned, their areas are already terrible. Just on my second to last day there, little Chin, she was so excited, [… she] half pulled me up a hill, the highest hill I’ve ever climbed in my life. And they wanted me on top of that hill so that I could be with them as they flew kites. And each one of their kites had pictures of drones on the kite. It was Xs over it, or the consequences of drone warfare. They were so excited as those kites became little dots up in the sky. And even the youngest of the girls could tell me what a drone was. Very seriously, shaking their heads, saying “These drones can kill people.”

And can you imagine the innocence of these children, and U.S. people have no exposure whatsoever to the communities of families who just want to live and raise their children. And then we pour our resources into bombs like the ones that you’ve described. Well, if we earn ourselves a reputation as a menacing, fearful country of warlords, we’ve certainly gotten what we’ve asked for.

So does this build security? I mean imagine how many rage-filled, angry, traumatized young people might say “Sign me up”…in the next Jihadist group that comes into town.

DB: Yeah. And this…

KK: And, Dennis, can I ask…?

DB: Yes, please.

KK: So, blowing up all the tunnels with this massive penetration bombing, does this mean, then, that they might want to drive the ISIS fighters into the cities? Because they’re going to go somewhere. So then you’ve got…I mean Nangarhar is a very resort area near the border. But Jalalabad is not so far away. What kind of a strategy, in terms of the future, is the military thinking about?

Army CH-47 Chinook helicopter pilots fly near Jalalabad, Afghanistan, April 5, 2017.  (Army photo by Capt. Brian Harris)

And it’s very frightening to see who’s in charge of the military now. And to know that the president seems to have just kind of walked away from being informed, or aware of, these different strategies. And I think past presidents have also done plenty of damage in Afghanistan, and in Iraq and in Syria. We should all at least acknowledge that. And they were able to maybe put a better mask on it. I think President Trump doesn’t have much of a mask. But it’s certainly going to arouse fury all around the world.

DB: And, just for a moment, to come back to the kids who were flying kites with pictures or paintings of drones on them, I assume that’s obviously out of their own experience. I imagine some of those folks actually lost relatives and friends to drone operations…

KK: Well, the young man who organized the day, he got the bus and he helped to make the kites, and invited the children, and the older kids to come on the hilltop, Maldive has a nephew who, every time he hears a drone fly overhead, goes into something like a panic attack, and runs and hides. And so, Maldive said “I had to do something, to try to protect my nephew.”

And another thing that I want to point out is that all of this aerial surveillance, it’s not just drones, the United States has been experimenting with huge systems for surveillance over Afghanistan, but those systems will never, ever disclose the kinds of questions my young friends ask when they go out to the villages to try to find out who needs the heavy blankets, to try to find out who’s most in need of getting a child laborer into school. And they ask “When was the last time your family had enough food” and “What’s your source for water?”

And, in the refugee camp, a woman came up to me, she just sobbed on my shoulder, and she said “I have nothing to feed my children for lunch. Nothing to give them for dinner.” People run from these wars, they’ve got nowhere to turn, nowhere to hide. They come to overcrowded cities, like Kabul, where the infrastructure is already crumbling. You begin to wonder, “Is there no mercy? Are there no ethical constraints on the United States, which allies Saudi Arabia, and these other warlords?”

DB: The kinds of comments I’ve been hearing since the first bombing…but now after this bombing is that–and these are from, I don’t know what you’d call them, some people call them liberals–“He’s [Trump] getting his act together. This is a positive reversal.” I guess, “Getting to the job. Really seeing what it looks like from the inside, really does have the power to transform.”

KK: Well, it certainly is the case that he was being labelled as a kind of bumptious fool, as a president, before he took the act of hitting Syria, and now this action, and if that’s how you earn your way into the elite salon as a club member, I guess we shouldn’t be terribly surprised because at the top of that group are the Directors of Boeing, Lockheed, Martin Marietta, British Aerospace, Raytheon.

The stocks for Raytheon went up after. Raytheon-manufactured Tomahawk cruise missiles hit Syria. This was certainly a sad, sad statement on, I suppose, the way to corral these kinds of dangerous actions becomes more and more confusing. Because we’re not really sure who is in charge of governance under the Trump administration.

DB: Kathy, you’re in New York, you’ve said having to do with a fast. Are you fasting now?

KK: Yeah, I’m on day five of a week-long fast. It’s been a real gift to be with the community across from the United Nations, at the Isaiah Wall where there’s a saying “When shall come a day when they shall beat their swords into plowshares. And their spears into pruning hooks.” But we feel so conscious of the alarm that U.N. workers have sounded, have been predicting that these conflict driven, near famine conditions could cost the lives, collectively, if you factor in Yemen, Somalia, South Sudan, Nigeria, upwards of 16 million people. And what a terrible, horrible way to die, stranded in the desert with no water and no food.

And, meanwhile, the United States has supported the Saudis in blocking the Port of Hodeidah, in Saudi air strikes. The United States has made air strikes. Very, very expensive weaponry being used, while people are starving.

DB: I believe the Pentagon announced today [4/13/17] actually another air strike in Syria killed 18 of so-called rebels that they’re supporting.

KK: The chaos and the upheaval that all of these strikes cause will not be over after the announcements. It will go on and on, imagine people that are maimed and wounded, and in need of health care. Imagine the families that don’t have a bread winner. Imagine the desires for revenge that come. The idea that military solutions, so-called solutions, could make a difference in that part of the world is, it seems to me, insane. It seems like the military has been doing [this] decade after decade.

DB: Kathy, we just have a minute or two left, but just for a broader picture, and I always come to you with a question like this. Forgive me, but what does this say about who we are? What we’ve become? What our government has become? Your thoughts on that?

A Predator drone firing a missile.

KK: Well, we’re a nation of people who join grassroots groups to non-cooperate with murdering and killing all of the time. And these grassroots groups exist, they’re sturdy, they’re beckoning for more people to join, in fact they’ve been more evident since President Trump was inaugurated, and the lead up to that time. And so, I think we are a group of people who can say “No, we don’t want to be identified as warlords, as menacing, fearsome people.” But, we’re going to have to do everything we can to make that very, very clear.

I think people who will be going to churches, and to synagogues, over this weekend coming up, have a responsibility to say to their communities, and their faith based leaders, “We must speak out in this time, here and now.” And not focus on the past or some kind of apocalyptic future. I think that people in universities, there’s a big responsibility right now. Educate our young people to understand the consequences of war, otherwise they’re completely being robbed of their finances, as they go to the universities.

And I think people are right to think about strikes. Strikes all over the place, working with the BDS campaigns, with Black Lives Matter, with students. I think it’s an important time to say “We don’t want to cooperate.” I haven’t paid a dime of federal income tax since 1980, and that’s one thing I can say with relief. So, as tax day approaches, what people think, what do you want to pay for? And do you get what you pay for in the USA? And sadly, you do, you get days like today, when we learn about this massive bomb dropped on some of the poorest people in the world.

DB: Kathy Kelly, Voices for Creative Non-Violence, if people want to learn more about that organization, or what you’re up to, best way?

KK: Oh, yes please, go to vcnv.org. Also, for the Afghan peace volunteers, seeing video of those kids up on the hillside with their kites at ourjourneytosmile.com. Speaking of Yemen, we’re speaking of a fast for Yemen because Yemen is starving. So, Yemen and fast and you’ll get to us.

Dennis J Bernstein is a host of “Flashpoints” on the Pacifica radio network and the author of Special Ed: Voices from a Hidden Classroom. You can access the audio archives at www.flashpoints.net.

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36 comments for “Dropping the (Non-Nuclear) Big One

  1. mike k
    April 18, 2017 at 3:15 pm

    It is disturbing to realize that those in charge of the military are no more than overgrown children who like to see things go bang! These intellectual and immoral cretins that we call generals have submitted themselves to a doublethink world of military brainwashing which renders them unable to see and feel the incredible suffering they are causing with their war toys. If they could experience clearly for one minute what they are really doing, they would be aghast, and fall on their knees asking forgiveness for the horrible inhuman things they are guilty of. But instead they are currying favor with those higher up and polishing their medals hoping for a promotion based on the “good work” they are doing destroying other human beings. Those who built the ovens at the death camps in Germany took pride in their craftsmanship.

    • Peppermint
      April 18, 2017 at 5:09 pm

      Dam* straight Mike. Emotionally out of touch and certifiably insane. I wrote that elsewhere on this site and I’m gonna’ keep saying it. Kamma is going to bite us big in this country. Buddha said that the source of suffering can be traced back to one of (at least) three things: Greed, Hatred, or Delusion. How many of these three apply to the never-ending, perpetual state of war that our country inflicts on the world? Think of all the positive, life-giving programs that money could be used for- here at home and abroad- to improve the well-being of this planet. What’s being done, and allowed, in our name is disgraceful.

  2. mike k
    April 18, 2017 at 3:40 pm

    A huge military is the sure sign of a fascist state. The lack of concern for fellow human beings, and the desire to tyrannize over others is taught by the military. The military is a school for evil. They teach torture and remorseless killing, and suppression of all kindness or loving impulses in their hellish minions. The word peace becomes an evil lie in their mouths.

    • Brad Owen
      April 19, 2017 at 7:16 am

      Probably why our military people that served in Iraq suffered more suicides than battlefield deaths…the traumatic realization that they have been mutilated into “filthy Orcs” was too much for their consciences to bear…”the age of Man is over. The age of the Orc begins” said the Orc general in Lord of the Rings…a propaganda movie which heralded “the return of the Monarchs” as the “solution” to the problem of “filthy Orcs” whom they manufactured themselves?(look up phrase “return of the Monarchs” in EIR search box).

  3. mike k
    April 18, 2017 at 3:43 pm

    Maybe you realize that I have zero respect or love for the military? Right.

    • Bill Bodden
      April 18, 2017 at 6:49 pm

      You sure had me fooled, mike.

  4. mike k
    April 18, 2017 at 3:49 pm

    Thank God there are people like Kathy Kelly working for a world based on Love rather than hate. She and those like her are the real hope for the world. If they cannot prevail, then our time on Earth is nearly over. We must do everything we can to help them, to become one of them.

    • rosemerry
      April 18, 2017 at 4:51 pm

      To think that Kathy was nominated for the Nobel Prize for Peace the year that Obama got it! A mad world.

  5. April 18, 2017 at 4:10 pm

    A full-scale outcry of We the People of this country is actually overdue, but after 15+ years of this endless savagery, it is imperative that we have got to hit hard against this monster regime that has been ruling us in the US. I suspect it’s McMaster behind this, and Trump is an ignorant fool narcissist who was easily swayed into the war game, or was even threatened. Churches ought to be leading, synagogues, mosques, too, as Kathy Kelly says. I said last night in another post that the US has caused a Holocaust of Middle East countries, by definition “holocaust” means “utter destruction”, and it is true. I called the White House today and I am talking up the issue of the wars as I have never before with people. Obama’s mask is ripped away, no more complacency!

  6. Zachary Smith
    April 18, 2017 at 4:25 pm

    I looked up both “Kathy Kelly” and “Voices for Creative Non-Violence” and found nothing obviously awful. Another plus was that the VCNV folks have been consistent – none of that “it’s ok when Obama or Hillary are bombing people” stuff. She/they have Credentials.

    But for people who already know something about the mindless waste of money in making Afghanistan even poorer as well as the US support for the Saudi rampage in Yemen, another sort of essay would have been more useful to me.

    To this day I don’t know what the devil the US is trying to do in Afghanistan. And nobody has bothered to inform me about US motives for the destruction and starvation of Yemen.

    Are these and other weird activities for any other reason than keeping Big Weapons Makers prosperous, or is it something else which is too secret to publish?

    • Bill Bodden
      April 18, 2017 at 6:52 pm

      To this day I don’t know what the devil the US is trying to do in Afghanistan.

      There are probably several answers to this one, but I’ll submit a lack of courage and integrity to admitting the U.S. military has lost another war.

      • little lulu
        April 20, 2017 at 5:43 pm

        opium

    • April 19, 2017 at 2:16 pm

      Greece

    • April 19, 2017 at 2:50 pm

      TAPI pipeline. Rumsfeld was snubbed by the Taliban. Also Afghanistan borders China.

  7. john wilson
    April 18, 2017 at 4:27 pm

    If peace breaks out and the industrial military complex becomes obsolete, America will become a basket case if it isn’t already. leaving aside the service industries, probably half of America’s economy is based on war and all that entails. America is now so far down the path of the war business that any change is unthinkable. The ordinary guy and gal in America just has to face up to the fact that they are SCREWED!!!!

    • April 19, 2017 at 2:18 pm

      Well said.

    • April 19, 2017 at 2:58 pm

      USA changed fom Horses to Autos. In fact Rockerfellow and allies desrtoyed the initial public transit system of trains and electric trollies that first, to a large extent, replaced horses. Rockerfellow also steered USA into fossil fuel dependency. Great transitions are possible and are even controllable. TPP would have been a massively negative planned change. Optimistic Realism may be the most productive philosophy.

  8. April 18, 2017 at 4:41 pm

    It’s my belief that one has to stand up for justice, regardless of the outcome. We are like the biblical story of David with his slingshot against Goliath, but allowing this to continue is like the acquiescence of the Germans. Somebody has to form a White Rose resistance. Whatever the US thinks it’s doing in Afghanistan makes no difference anymore, it’s beyond any sense, pathological at this point. Were they blowing up those caves and tunnels that the US paid the bin Laden family to construct for living space of the Mujahideen on Brzezinski’s advice? I look at a photo of McMaster and I see a man who feels like a military ruler!

    • April 19, 2017 at 3:06 pm

      Yes, failure to speak is complicity. Phoning local radio station managers and informing them that they are complicit if they broadcast BBC or NPR warmongering propaganda, may be productive. Afghanistan has an ancient network of irrigation tunnels transversing mountains, besides from caves , bunker tunnels. Destroying the national oriented Taliban has allowed USA’s allies proxies Da-esh to conquer Afghan lands.

  9. rosemerry
    April 18, 2017 at 4:53 pm

    The Real News Network has an interview with Vijay Prasad, who explains that IS is tiny and not a threat in Afghanistan, but the bomb blast close to Pakistan will make the situation much worse.

  10. April 18, 2017 at 5:02 pm

    John, I bet it’s way more than half of America’s economy based on war and all it entails, as you say, which I might rewrite as “based on war and all its entrails”. Kind of a sick pun but true. With a nearly $20 trillion debt for this insanity, the land of US has nothing else to keep it going but a massive wargasm.

  11. Realist
    April 18, 2017 at 5:25 pm

    That $16 million price tag would about cover the contract of an NBA center for a season. Although it only amounts to about a nickel apiece for every oxygen-sucking American with a temperature above ambient. Still, I’d have different priorities for my nickel. How much would it take to pay the Neocons to go away and never come back? Maybe Elon Musk can offer them lovely retirement homes with sweeping vistas on Mars.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world, that MOAB, delivered by a lumbering C-130 transport plane, can only be used against third world countries that have no semblance of an air defense system. They would make for good target practice in Syria, should Russia ever actually deploy their advanced S-400 missiles. Even the S-300’s should bring those behemoths down like clay pigeons. My scientific curiosity wonders whether that MOAB would explode up in the air as soon as the C-130 is hit, or would it only blow on the inevitable impact with the ground?

    The real purpose for the incendiary theatrics in the Hindu Kush was, of course, to convince Kim Jong-Un that his nuclear facility and missile launch site(s) are the next targets for American MOABs. Well, at least we didn’t Hiroshima a whole city to scare the Russians this time. But, the Hermit Kingdom does happen to have those troublesome air defenses; how good they are, it seems, we will find out fairly soon. Apparently, the aircraft carrier was just a ruse, now headed to Indonesia rather than the Korean peninsula (it would embarrass Trump to lose that sucker if young Kim sent a nuke its way). It’s the frigates and destroyers armed with tomahawk missiles that will offer a replay of Shayrat Airfield near Homs half a world away. I doubt that any of this phases China which could not be handled with such disdain by Washington since Xi’s military have their highly effective ship-killer and carrier-killer missiles, invented just for you, Sam. Boys and their toys, eh? Only scenario more juvenile would be Hillary posturing as Maximum Generalissimo.

  12. April 18, 2017 at 5:47 pm

    Good one, Realist. But did I miss who Sam is because I’m dense? Diplomacy is off the table, may as well use the weapons so the industry can make more to receive more fake printed money out of thin air. China is going to get real tired of the Trump administration pretty soon, isn’t North Korea more their province? The US is policing the world as always, the world only sees it as terrorizing.

    • Bill Bodden
      April 18, 2017 at 6:56 pm

      But did I miss who Sam is because I’m dense?

      I’ll guess and say Sam is Uncle Sam. And, no, Jessica you are nowhere near dense.

      • Realist
        April 19, 2017 at 12:19 am

        Yep, “Sam” is Uncle Sam… as Steppenwolf used to refer to him.

    • Realist
      April 19, 2017 at 1:04 am

      Lemme share another chuckle with you, Jessica: Imagine Maximum Generalissimo Hillary wearing gaudy military epaulets on her trademark pants suit. It could happen if Trump is eventually forced to sign her on as his Secretary of Defense to placate the angry hordes of Neocons now micromanaging his presidency. And, yeah, Bill Bodden was correct about “Sam.”

      When reality is reduced to the absurd by our leaders, I eventually succumb to ridiculing them as such and try to at least have a little laugh at their expense. Otherwise, you might just have to cry.

    • April 19, 2017 at 2:22 pm

      China was having dinner with Trump when the Tomahawks flew. China made business deals with Ivanka, Queen of the Imperial non United States of America. Excuse me. I have to puke again.

  13. April 18, 2017 at 6:09 pm

    There’s something greatly amiss with the tale of the dropping of the Massive Ordance Air Burst (“MOAB”) bomb on the tunnels of Tora-Bora. It is not a ground-penetrating “bunker buster.” As its name bluntly states, it’s a bomb designed to go off in the air above a target. It’s a bomb designed to be used against personnel on the ground, as a psychological warfare tool (it makes a very big bang), and to clear jungle, e.g., to create an instant heliport.

    The U.S. has ground penetrating bunker-busters. E.g., the somewhat smaller Massive Ordnance Penetrator. But that isn’t what they claimed to have used. So why drop the MOAB? The only reason I can come up with is for propaganda purposes. It’s the biggest bomb in the U.S. arsenal and it’s never been used in combat before. So its dropping is newsworthy.

    Methinks we should be looking instead at what other news stories got pushed off the evening news to make room for the dropping of the MOAB, like the many holes that were getting punched in the administration’s story about the Assad government committing a sarin gas attack.

    • Zachary Smith
      April 18, 2017 at 6:28 pm

      There is an internet rumor that the actual target of the huge air-burst was a large concentration of ISIS and Pakistani troops. The ZeroHedge site publishes a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of nonsense. I’ve no idea which is the case in this story.

      Indian agencies who are coordinating withe counterparts in Afghanistan have learnt that there are no civilians living in the area. There were a large number of stooges of the Inter-Services intelligence who have been protecting the IS operatives in this area. The US action comes at a time when there was a huge build-up of IS forces in Afghanistan.

      Indian agencies say that the Pakistan army and the ISI were nurturing these operatives. The entire area that was bombed was under the control of the ISI officials backing the IS, sources also said. The impact of the bomb was so huge that it blew up at least 500 Pakistanis and an equal number of IS operatives.

      www*zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-15/india-claims-500-pakistanis-protecting-isis-killed-treasonous-us-bombing-afghanistan

    • Realist
      April 19, 2017 at 12:46 am

      Or maybe the descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac (the Jews, or their Christian evangelical groupies) in the Pentagram, I mean Pentagon, intended to deliver a biblical insult against those descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael (the Muslims), as Moab was one of the two offspring of the incestuous relationship between Lot and his daughters.

      “According to the biblical account, Moab and Ammon were born to Lot and Lot’s elder and younger daughters, respectively, in the aftermath of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible refers to both the Moabites and Ammonites as Lot’s sons, born of incest with his daughters (Genesis 19:37-38).”

      According to paleontologists, Ammonites are fossil mollusks related to the Nautilus, so that one could be too confusing to use.

      There’s symbolism and magic in the words of war as used by Sam. Not too much logic or intelligence, however.

      • April 19, 2017 at 9:51 am

        lol…pentagram….that one has come to me too….also i find th description of the great harlot in the bible to fit the United States of America so well…it seems to have been tailored…we will see how that one plays out…peace

      • April 19, 2017 at 12:56 pm

        “There’s symbolism and magic in the words of war as used by Sam. Not too much logic or intelligence, however.”

        https://literarydevices.net/antiphrasis/:
        Antiphrasis originated from a Greek word antiphrasis, which means opposite word. Antiphrasis is a figurative speech in which a phrase or word is employed in a way that is opposite to its literal meaning in order to create an ironic or comic effect.

        “Symbolism” and “magic” require “logic” and “intelligence”. Twist the language until it has no point of reference but to the utmost absurd. Do to language what was done to the jungles of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia; what was done to Iraq, Syria and Libya. The “logic” and “intelligence” behind it is to wage war on the mind, as well as everywhere else. You make an excellent point Realist; but your conclusion is naive…or ignorant…The logic and intelligence is in the method!

  14. April 19, 2017 at 1:47 am

    Bomb For Gold !

    I read some where that the most powerful Bomb was dropped to find gold.The caves that were bombed were build by the CIA,etc.

    This way maybe they could ward off the Greatest Depression in world history.Of course others say they want nuclear war to take care of the Sheep.

    The NWO is trying to crash the system as is proven by their actions..Divide and conquer is their major tactic.The are probably sided with Russia and China,to destroy the west and its people.Sgt.Major Dan Page-You Tube

    The war in Afghanistan is illegal as all the others are.Why are we in the country.Drugs are major reason plus profit of war,etc.Is Afghanistan our longest war to date.

    To prove that the wars are illegal with documented facts to support the position Please research the following reference.

    Trump Uses Tiny Nation To Insult Russia-April 18 2017-11:44 PM.

    Walter Haas Comments.

    My comments with references expose the U.S. Corporation which is in state of treason as all who have taken oath to defend it are violating it as result of Act 1871 which made the Organic American Constitution Null and Void.You Tube.

    Banking Act 1933-USA Insolvent and taken over by the international bankers for debt owed.You Tube

    Admiralty Law is in force in USA not Common Law.This is why they flip flop using the American Constitution.They know this in the three branches of government if they have read the American Constitution-.Jordon Maxwell-You Tube

    The Pentagon knows this and the Intelligence Agencies if they are literate.

    This is why as Norman Dodd stated.They have destroy education and history,etc to cover up and control the Sheep.-You Tube

    Charlotte Iserbyth and Antony Sutton have topics on this issue You Tube.

    The Big Con is as follows:By Divide and Conquer methods they splinter concentration of information.The flood of information daily leaves little time to concentrate on one subject .

    In other words by repetition of facts known concentrated on daily bases it neutralize fragmentation.

    Example.The Fed and IRS are illegal.The American Organic Constitution is invalid because it was allowed to be overthrown by congress illegal.Votes required,were illegal as they did not exist-Christmas Holidays use to vote for deception>You Tube.

    Major Jordan’s Diary and Antony Sutton-The Best Enemy Money Can Buy-Both on You Tube are documented facts.You Tube

    War Is A Racket-Gen..Smedley Butler-You Tube is historical fact.You Tube

    Norman Dodd-New World Agenda-You Tube is proven by what has happen to America since WW 1.You Tube

    John Perkins-Economic Hit Man-You Tube is Fact-You Tube

    Fake News Media fragments as other avenues of news communication do.

    If alternative new will place on their programs were it can be read daily the facts about the American Constitution and FED and Wars then the Sheep will understand by repetition what is really the state of America with the U.S. Corporation in charge.

    Robert David Steele.com-Lee Stranahan—Populis News are going to effect the US Corporation by having US representatives sign oath that they will enforce the policies Trump was elected on,or they are finished as rep.

    Lee Stranahan contacted different outlets in the news media and had the Sheep send e-mails to Trump and other officials of their rejection of Trumps behavior.This was very effective.

    The Following Video is from The Drudge Report today.

    Title-Order To Curb Foreign Workers— Drudge Report Today-You will see a difference in Trumps posture maybe.He was hit with brutal reality that sheep are conscious and aware.Those around him must tread lightly.They are exposed.The Sheep,Deplorable,Herd,Products.Containers.

    The US Corporation only has Martial Law as its insurance,but there is risk of backfire from those within who support the Organic American Constitution.

    When the soviet fell the Army sided with the Sheep.Since segment of the personnel of the government support the real Constitution the enemy runs the risk of total defeat.If not the death of entire planet including the criminals who created this hell that exist now.

    Please circulate my references which are some of the most provocative pertaining to the treason being committed by the US Corporation.

    Only by simple statements-The Fed is illegal,the wars are illegal with proof can the sheep conquer the enemy of mankind.

    You should ask yourself why this has not been done.The answer is probably because the fascist have blocked method as they are doing today.

    Cliff High-Web Bot.com You Tube states that the new methods of attack on the criminal-fascist will be very effective as result of new techniques .Repetition,concentration of proven violation of the American Constitution cannot be denied when facts are presented on continuous assault..

    Force requires action.Concentration of force when hitting a target is most effective.The pen is more powerful than the sword when applied with the skill of a master and his students-Sheep.

    How they Plan To kill Us—George Green—You Tube

    Better to act than be no more.God helps those who help themselves.Might of any kind is right.Repetition and concentration cannot be overcome by the minority who rule when conviction is specific to win at any cost.3% in the American Revolution made the difference regardless of what followed.Jay Treaty and Treaty of Paris.USA is colony of England for debt owed as result of war,etc???You Tube

    All statement may be untrue.You must research for facts and evidence,

    The Rise of Hitler—-Antony Sutton—You Tube

    Pawns In The Game-Guy Carr—Weather change saved Americas life.The criminals backed down as God is more powerful than man.-You Tube-Book.

    Walter Haas—God Bless America

  15. R Davis
    April 19, 2017 at 9:42 am

    Sorry .. but the worlds most .. M O A B’s .. USA has been superseded by Russia’s F O A B’s which is 4 times more powerful.

  16. April 19, 2017 at 10:05 am

    i guess what is in my mind these days, is the motivation for a major war….as mentioned by many contributors here, these last 15 years of USA imperialism has cost, what? on the order of 20 trillion Dollars? These wars have been FINANCED! none of this has been paid for. I am supposing that the attempt to take most of the social programs funding and dump it into Defence and Intelligence, is simply to forestall a real economic disaster until they can start a major war and receive the special powers and privileges that come with it. This Big War maneuver has been done before. They have no way to handle the Mother of All Economic Depressions that is coming. We the people that survive this disaster will have to pay for it. Again.

    And we have the arrogance to test a Weapon of Mass Destruction on the sovereign lands of another country…

  17. Mark Thomason
    April 19, 2017 at 12:16 pm

    One of the odd lessons of high explosive ordnance development is that bigger does not produce better on the scale usually imagined. Explosive effects don’t scale. Twice the bang is not twice the effect. Depending on the details of confinement, it will be the square or even cube root.

    Furthermore, as we learned in nuclear tests, blast effects have limits. More blast is not more damage.

    I suppose the huge bomb has its uses, but those are likely to be very limited. There is a reason why bombs have not gone up and up in size. They’ve stayed about the same since WW2, and the huge exceptions as from WW2’s Tall Boy “earthquake bomb” were dead ends.

    Blast without penetration, as with the MOAB, is the weakest way to use blast.

    This was really a test, and only proved it was not worth it.

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