As the West’s elites growl about “Russian aggression” – as they once did about Iraq’s WMD – NATO leaders meet in Poland to plan a costly and dangerous new Cold War, while shunning the few voices of dissent, John V. Walsh warns.
By John V. Walsh
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier’s cry of distress is that of a man watching a tidal wave of destruction gathering force, similar to ones that have engulfed his country twice in the Twentieth Century.
Commenting on NATO’s recent military exercises in Poland and the Baltics, Steinmeier said, “What we shouldn’t do now is inflame the situation further through saber-rattling and warmongering. … Whoever believes that a symbolic tank parade on the alliance’s eastern border will bring security is mistaken. … We are well-advised to not create pretexts to renew an old confrontation. .. [It would be] fatal to search only for military solutions and a policy of deterrence.”
NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium.
His dread is not to be dismissed since it comes from a man who is in a position to know what the U.S. is up to. His words reflect the fears of ever more people across all of Eurasia from France in the West to Japan in the East.
Under the euphemism of “containment,” the U.S. is relentlessly advancing its new Cold War on Russia and China. Its instrument in the West is NATO and in the East, Japan and whatever other worthies can be sharked up.
It is a Cold War that grows increasingly hotter, with proxy wars now raging in eastern Ukraine and Syria and with confrontations in the South China Sea. There is an ever growing likelihood that these points of tension will flare up into an all out military conflict.
In the West, this wider conflict could begin in Eastern Europe and Russia, but it would not stop there. All the European NATO countries would be on the front lines. In the East, the conflict would take place in the Western Pacific in the region of China’s coast and in the peninsulas and island countries in the region, including Japan, the Philippines and Indochina.
In each case, the U.S. would be an ocean away, “leading from behind,” as Barack Obama’s staff might put it, or engaged in “offshore balancing” as some foreign policy “experts” might term it.
Assuming that the conflict would stay “conventional” – i.e. non-nuclear – the devastation might be confined to Eurasia, from France in the West to Japan in the East. In that case, no matter which side prevails, the U.S. could escape unscathed and “win” in that sense. But Eurasian nations would lose in what could be World War II redux.
Eve of Destruction
One can get a sense of what this would mean in the case of economic conflict by looking at the minimal economic warfare now being waged on Russia in the form of sanctions. Those sanctions are hurting both Russia and the rest of Europe. The U.S. is untouched.
The same is also true for military conflict. Want to know what it would look like? Look at eastern Ukraine. All of Eurasia could come to resemble that sorry nation in the event of a military conflict pitting the U.S. and its allies against Russia and China. Eurasia, be forewarned!
The goal of the U.S. foreign policy elite would clearly be for Russia and China to “lose,” but even if they “won,” they would be brought low, leaving the U.S. as the world’s greatest economic and military power as it was in 1945.
Europe is beginning to awaken to this. We have Steinmeier’s plea. But it is not only Germany that is worried. The French Senate wants an end to the sanctions imposed on Russia. Business people in many Western European countries, most notably in Germany and Italy, European farmers who export to Russia and tourist entrepreneurs like those in Turkey and Bulgaria also want an end to sanctions and military exercises.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier.
Parties of the Right want an end to domination by NATO and Brussels, both controlled by the U.S. The Brexit is just one rumbling of such discontent.
All these nations are growing increasingly aware of the fate that awaits them if overt conflict erupts with Russia. The people of Germany want none of it. Likewise the people of Japan are stirring against the U.S. effort to goad Japan into fighting China. All remember the devastation of WWII.
Let’s recall the casualty figures, i.e., deaths, among the principal combatants of WWII:
Soviet Union- 27,000,000 (14% of the population);
China- 17,000,000 (3.5%);
Germany- 7,000,000 (8.5%);
Japan- 2,800,000 (4%).
By comparison, for the U.S., safely far offshore, the number was 419,000 (0.32%)!
And for a few other countries which “got in the way” of the major adversaries:
Yugoslavia- 1,500,000 (9%)
Poland- 6,000,000 (17%)
French Indochina- 1,600,000 (6.11%)
Philippines- 527,000 (3.29%)
One wonders what the leaders of Poland or the Philippines or some elements in Vietnam are thinking when they take a belligerent attitude to Russia or China in order to please the U.S.
Nuclear Possibilities
The even more alarming problem with this U.S. strategy is that it could easily spill over into a nuclear conflict as nearly happened in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Then the U.S. too would be reduced to radioactive rubble. The bet of the Western policy elite must be that Russia and China would not respond to a conventional war with a nuclear strike.
However Vladimir Putin has made it clear that in any war with the West, the U.S. will feel the impact at once. The neocons and the rest of the U.S. foreign policy elite must be betting that Putin can do nothing, because he would not use nuclear weapons. So the destruction would be confined to Europe and Asia.
Russian President Vladimir Putin, following his address to the UN General Assembly on Sept. 28, 2015. (UN Photo)
But that assumption is a dangerous one. Even if nuclear weapons are not used. Russia and China might respond with a conventional weapons attack on U.S. cities. In WWII, Germany was able to wreak considerable devastation using conventional bombs on England delivered by airplanes and V2 rockets.
Similarly the U.S. was able to do enormous damage to Germany and to Japan with conventional weapons, especially fire-bombing as in Tokyo and Dresden. Today technology has advanced greatly (bringing previously “safe” targets with range of missile and bomber attack), and U.S. cities have nuclear power plants nearby.
What is the likely outcome of a conventional war waged against U.S. cities? Do we wish to find out? And once it begins where is the firewall against an all-out nuclear exchange? Where are the neocons and the rest of the U.S. foreign policy elite taking us?
Certainly the damage would begin with Eurasia, but Americans would do well to worry that great swarms of chickens might come home to roost in New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. This is no longer the Twentieth Century.
For some the scenarios above might seem unduly alarmist. You might doubt that the U.S. elite would be capable of consciously unleashing such a vast bloodletting. For those, it is useful to recall the words of President Harry S. Truman, who said in 1941, when he was still a Senator and before the U.S. had entered WWII: “If we see that Germany is winning the war, we ought to help Russia; and if that Russia is winning, we ought to help Germany, and in that way let them kill as many as possible. . . .”
Is that not what happened? People of Eurasia, beware.
John V. Walsh can be reached at [email protected] . He writes for Antiwar.com, Consortium News, CounterPunch, DissidentVoice, International Clearing House, Lew Rockwell.com, RT and other outlets where antiwar voices are to be heard. Some of his work has been translated into Chinese and published in the mainland Chinese press. [A version of this article originally appeared on RT here.]
Israel has 300+ NUKES — REFUSES inspections —- REFUSES to sign Non-ProliferationTreaty.
Israel HATES Christianity & GENTILES and denies the Spiritual and Human EQUALITY of NONJews to Jews.
Israel thinks GREATER ISRAEL should rule the World. “Greater Israel” is all land between the Nile and the Euphrates rivers, Syria, Jordan, most of Saudi Arabia. Greater Israel” requires the breaking up of the existing Arab states into small states. You can find maps they have drawn online. http://www.globalresearch.ca/g… Did you know what the two blue bands on their flag stand for? The Nile and the Euphrates. Israel (using the Gentile USA) is spreading chaos and fracturing all Civilization in the Peoples immediately around it in order to facilitate a land grab for “greater israel”.
Israel has “DUAL-citizens”(sayanim) whose true loyalty is to Israel, embedded throughout American government/society. According to the Zionist creed, Israel is the state of the Jews, all the Jews. Every Jew in the world belongs to Israel, even if temporarily residing somewhere else
If Israel could provoke nuclear apocalypse between America&Russia …..and China ….. BY WAY OF DECEPTION…. Israel would be the ONLY NUCLEAR ARMED SUPERPOWER left………
Especially if it SNEAK nuked many of It’s HATED/HISTORICAL “enemies” While they are bombing each other.(Germany, Poland, England, Egypt, Iraq, basically ALL gentiles should “bear the YOKE of Israel”)Noted Israeli military historian Martin Van Creveld stated that Israel could find itself one day forced to exterminate the European continent using all kinds of weapons including its nuclear arsenal if it felt its demise neared, stressing that Israel also considers Europe a hostile target.
Does Israel have nuclear missiles aimed at the main world capitals?? — You bet.
Israel BRAGS about doing similar in Persia/Iran (75,000dead), Jews even CELEBRATE with Purim [slaughter of enemies] and Egypt(all the FIRST BORN CHILDREN)
David Ben-Gurion, one of the father founders of Israel, described Zionist aims in 1948: “A Christian state should be established [in Lebanon], with its southern border on the Litani river. We will make an alliance with it. When we smash the Arab Legion’s strength and bomb Amman, we will eliminate Transjordan too, and then Syria will fall. If Egypt still dares to fight on, we shall bomb Port Said, Alexandria and Cairo… And in this fashion, we will end the war and settle our forefathers’ account with Egypt, Assyria, and Aram………….. read that again
“and settle our forefathers’ account with Egypt, Assyria, and Aram”
They are STILL HATING and planning deadly attacks after 3,500+ YEARS .
How do you think they feel about JESUS CHRIST whom they HATE most of ALL.
Israel’s MOTTOES:
(1) NEVER forgive & NEVER forget.
(2) By Way of Deception you will Do War.
(3) Their “god” is a WAR god
Mr. Walsh you write well and seem to be a good investigative reporter, but this particular piece, though interesting and colorful, is a rather large exaggeration. Russian, Chinese and most European governments know that the probability of a real war in our time between NATO and a Russian/Chinese alliance is practically zero. NATO’s tinsel saber rattling along Russian and Chinese frontiers is strangely stupid and nothing more than neoliberal propaganda staged for the benefit of hysterical states like Estonia and Latvia. It symbolizes nothing, and is recognized as such by all parties. Global trade, global corporations, global banks and greed are the prime factors here, and, though they must tolerate insulated local wars, they will militate mightily against global war that hurts business as usual, especially big, global business.
Let me suggest that you and other Consortium reporters investigate and report on the unexaggerated, but usually ignored, illegal military occupation and massive illegal population settlement of EU member Cyprus by NATO member Turkey. Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974, seized almost 40% of the nation, and has plundered its land and its Greek population ever since, almost 1/3 of whom were forced to flee south as homeless refugees in their own country.The Turkish government, which illegally settled 160,000 ethnic Turks from Turkey in Cyprus, in gross violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, has been condemned repeatedly by the UN Security Council to no avail.
Why is Turkey’s illegal and unjustified aggression in Cyprus quietly overlooked, while Russia is loudly condemned for justifiably seizing and re-unifying with Crimea, historically part of Russia? Turkey’s intolerable occupation of Cyprus not only continues without interference by NATO, the EU or the USA, but is cynically supported financially by the unconscionable Eu who allotted 250,000,000 Euros to the occupiers and their illegal settlements in 2006.
In addition to their depredations in Cyprus, Turkey perpetually threatens strategic NATO member, Greece by repeatedly violating its internationally recognized sea and air space, provocatively flying F-16s directly over Greek islands and using gun boats to threaten Greeks fishing in Greek territorial waters. It is a dangerous, hair trigger affair, but ignored by all.
Incidentally, Mr. Walsh, you left Greece out of your list of World War II deaths. A couple of years ago, the Guardian newspaper estimated that between 1942 and 1944, alone, Greece suffered 575.000 deaths, many of whom were women and children, a huge percentage of their population at the time. Other estimates exceed a total of 800,0000.
A “Joint statement of the NATO-Ukraine Commission at the level of Heads of State and Government” was issued at the Warsaw Summit on 9 July http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_133173.htm
The military alliance affirmed its commitment to “further develop the Distinctive Partnership between NATO and Ukraine”.
NATO leaders endorsed a Comprehensive Assistance Package (CAP) for Ukraine “providing advice and support particularly for Ukraine’s defence and security structures, based on NATO standards and principles, including the civilian democratic control of the Armed Forces and to achieve interoperability with NATO.”
Hi there this is just nothing just I stupidness score up an stability and peace of entire Europe and the people’s of Europe, but I really fails to understand that why is the European leaders are not understanding,
I am a graduate of usc back at the end of the fifties. I love the American peoples and I think they do not deserve the carnage hole, the late different administrations are pushing them into. America can save the world if they can save themselves from the deceptive road the crooked leaders are leading them into.I remember the honest path of the fifties and feel appalled at the picture being drawn to America in the first decade of the 21 first and the moving second decade. I am and my family are one of the million casualties of small America war on Iraq. War breads war and violence breads violence and feel sorry to see the story of Iraq is starting to take shapes in the American quarter. Beware the divine law of reversal and move slowly even in your aggression,for you do not know what tomorrow is storing for you. The rays of the like of Ray Mcgovern is the real rays of America and not the ugly radiations of the dark forces. America must regains its independence and stop support others blindly away from justice and truth and be a light to shine the present world path of darkness the path of integrity and courage. We are all going to die so let us leave a mark of honesty and integrity on the wall of this dark world. ‘The fear of the German minister is a bell for the wise before it is too late.
The risk of nuclear war triggered by a wave of irrational emotionalism of politicians and commanders is probably greater than that of an attempted conventional attack. A conventional attack on an ally like Israel with a conventional response, followed by major escalation against Israel with US threats, then a nuclear attack by Israel and a nuclear attack against Israel, tempting US rulers to do a nuclear attack on a superpower periphery like Crimea, followed by a nuclear attack on Hawaii etc.
More likely, a Russia or China pushed by US aggression might move by conventional means or insurgency against Saudi Arabia through proxies, causing US aggression in the Mideast to backfire. That too would be unlikely without US aggression against them.
But there are safer and more likely retribution strategies. The simplest is economic warfare by isolation, which would have been unlikely without US aggression. But Russia or China could build economic presence and dependencies in South and Central America, and even Mexico, to bring aggression back to US borders, and it seems very unlikely that they are not actively planning such a “containment” strategy.
I suspect that they are far more sophisticated than the fools and bullies we have in DC, and will keep the world’s bully mollified until he sees that he is overpowered.
I read, “Intellectual Dwarfs Now Run NATO,” the curious headline proclaimed,
I wondered in awe at the scope of the crime, why intelligent midgets were blamed-
It seemed a pejorative charge to imply that the handicapped might be so bold!
But Jan Oberg described a unique circus act in which farcical antics unfold.
NATO proclaims that the Russians want war, and lots of their troops line the border,
But Poland alone has four times as many, still claiming that they are outnumbered!
“There is Russian aggression,” exclaimed Stoltenberg, “Just look over there at the fence!”
“They stick out their tongues and shout nanny nah nah. We’re just midgets, so we take offense!”
The Latvians need reassurance as well, and Estonians want comfort too-
Lithuanians threaten to pee in their pants or stop breathing until they turn blue!
The Russians spend only twelve cents to the buck, they frown upon war profiteering,
They also save big on the high heels an stilts, NATO allies demand engineering!
America pays for three quarters of that, the Baltic states stick to a budget-
The Balkans are equally frugal it seems, when it comes time to pay they just fudge it.
They know Uncle Sam’s overdrawn at the bank, but he’s got a great big line of credit-
He prints up the bucks and sells bonds to the clucks, the Chinese may come to regret it!
The Eurasian plan for a Silk Road trade span from Shanghai and Macau to the west,
Would completely redact that ridiculous pact that the globalists don’t want suppressed.
The TPP Pact and the NATO contract are a try at that Mackinder scheme,
Karl Haushofer liked it and Brzezinski spiked it to compose a revisionist theme.
The EU is broke and austerity’s yoke is the catalyst pushing for Brexit,
Now there is talk of a Frexit and Spexit, slow growth may demand Italexit!
Uncle Sam screams, “Forget all your dreams, the Russians could march in a flash!”
“I need a big war to write off all that debt, and default without giving the Chinese my cash.”
Some analysts claim that a financial frame is the impetus NATO endorses.
Arms sales to midgets who buy up their widgets embolden those fascist armed forces.
It’s a matter of time before some of that slime decides to try poking the bear.
It should be a riot, and if they should try it, I hope Saakashvili is there-
If anyone missed it, the Russian tanks rolled, and Mickey got terribly nervous.
You can watch it on Youtube, it’s really a hoot, Mickey thought Uncle Sam had his back-
He got on the phone with those midgets in Brussels, and that’s when things started to worsen,
He poked at the bear thinking they’d cut him slack, then he started to eat his own necktie.
It seems Anders Rasmussen got on the phone and said Putin would shoot him in person.
By the way, Anders’ next job was at Goldman Sachs which, at least by association, suggests NATO actually is a financial racket.
Will Americans S#!T
If Europe should split
& would Russia & China be
The better for it?
Couldn’t Americans see
It’s not all Israeli
& would Iran & Syria be
The better for it?
This is all about the unknown
Who will be the one to reach the top of the dome
& then the Ukrainian chorus girls sing…
This ain’t no King Kong Movie dude
Now get on out of here…do, dado, dado, dadododadodadododado a little saxophone please!!!
Lou Reed could have done this
Hey after all he did do stuff with Metallica
Okay, I won’t wait for the phone to ring….thank you mr Mack, I won’t be back….
F.G. This is something to make you feel good about your writing….I’m just a jingle kind of guy at best.
Always enjoy your comments & your poetic artistry JT
https://twitter.com/JeffDSachs/status/751535953186025481
Jeffrey D. Sachs ?@JeffDSachs
Military-Industrial Complex in glee over return of Cold War, largely at MIC provocation through NATO expansion. http://www.stripes.com/news/nato-approves-buildup-in-eastern-europe-at-warsaw-summit-1.418085 …
2:58 PM – 8 Jul 2016
The NATO media backgrounder on NATO-Russia Relations “sets out the key dates and events in the relationship” http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160705_1607-backgrounder_nato-russia_en.pdf
The “fact sheet” conveniently neglects to mention the February 2014 NATO-backed coup d’etat in Kiev, a clear act of aggression against Ukrainian sovereignty.
According to NATO, the trouble started when Russia “llegally and illegitimately annexed Crimea” in March 2014.
NATO suspended all practical civilian and military cooperation with Russia on 1 April 2014.
Meanwhile, the cool ghoul Obama is whipping up NATO hysteria against “Russian aggression” on Russia’s border while playing Mr. Rodgers for the latest real or false flag tragedy back home.
“NATO is its own self-realizing prophecy and manufacturer of the ‘growing Russian threat.’ The first imagined threat is now becoming more a real, repeatedly manufactured threat—or at least intensifying perception thereof—driven by NATO expansion. There can be no end to NATO’s eternally expansionist logic. Each round requires another. NATO expansion’s end to Russia’s border can come by way of four paths: Russia’s membership in NATO, the collapse and breakup of the Russian state, the dissolution of NATO or a NATO-Russian war; perhaps first a proxy one followed by direct war, with all the potential consequences that can follow. Take your pick.”
The Internal Logic of Eternal NATO Expansion
By Gordon M. Hahn
https://gordonhahn.com/2016/05/21/the-internal-logic-of-eternal-nato-expansion/
This growing threat of a major confrontation with Russia and NATO, led by the US of course, has a lot of us peace loving people wondering how to get our insane paranoid leaders to back off aggression towards the Russian government. I originally thought Obama might head towards a more peaceful world, you know, Nobel prize and all, usher in a nicer world. But no, if anything tensions have escalated exponitally against Russia and China. The upcoming election will, if anything, probably put the most aggressive person possible in the grand chair of strategic command. The old cold war was hard on some folks such as myself that couldn’t wake up everyday wondering if this would be ‘the day’, meaning the last day alive before nuclear annihilation. We all seem to be moving in that direction again. Putin won’t put up with to many sanctions and armed forces at his borders before he pushes back, that I’m sure of. There’s already been a ‘mini coup’ at the state department lately and the sabers are rattling louder everyday as the propaganda jams the airways to ease the public into a confrontation with a country that has never lost a war, and it won’t lose the ‘next one’ either.
Hey Ol’ Hippy, your comment rings loudly for the rest of us as well, or at least it should. I too remember those empty feeling days during the Cold War, the news would at times get the best of even the hardest natured person among us. Those are not days we should wish upon anyone of a younger age than you, and I.
My hope is that Europeans, who should be very concerned since they would no doubt feel the nuclear heat before us (maybe) here in the states, and understand their angst as many of them are now striking back against the empire of chaos. Let’s hope they exceed with their wanting to pull away from all this madness.
When should us Americans who want peace take to the streets?
It doesn’t do any good to write about or speak of “the elite” without giving their names…we are just shadow boxing
Washington is surrounding Russia’s western border regions with ABM capabilities in Eastern Europe that can quickly be converted into actual nuclear missile launching sites.
The crucial question in which all of humanity needs to ask itself pronto: Will Russia simply sit back and let itself be a sitting duck, or will it try to preempt what it perceives to be an imminent nuclear attack from the West by launching a preemptive nuclear strike on the U.S?
The constant lies, propaganda, demonization and vilification being pumped out 24/7 by the establishment press in the West could cost us all dearly. All this yellow press type trash has so poisoned the minds of vast swaths of the U.S. public that they cannot think straight when the topic of Putin’s broached (try saying even nominally kind words about Putin, even in liberal company). Our only hope is that substantial numbers of the American people wake up to the lies and deceit and hold Washington’s warmongers to account to stop the constant browbeating and threats toward Moscow. All of humanity could be at stake.
Drew what you are pointing out about our American media’s demonization of all things Russian, and especially when it comes to trashing Putin is correct. Although, every time I read or hear this demonization of Putin, I then go and search out his speeches and nothing of what Putin ever says should be demonized. All I hear coming from the man, is his concern for his country’s sovereignty. Putin always reaches out towards the west, especially to America, and yet he is characterized as being satan, or as Hillary once did compare him to Hitler. How, wrong, and yet we call ourselves the exceptional ones.
See the link above to the Saker, and see how Russia is prepared for any confrontation that may develop, and let’s hope neither side ever fires the first shot.
Great points all.
The Saker piece is tremendous. I actually read it back when it appeared, thanks though.
There are always those handful of intellectuals/writers I read as soon as they publish anything, Parry from this site is one of them and the Saker is another. There are perhaps about 4 or 5 others.
Here is another article worth reading, Drew. I hope you don’t mind me trying to further this discussion, but this article describes how our wars are fought not only by our military, but by the MSM. While Americans are lied too by a Madison Ave. campaign where we are rounded up by sheep, only to be misled towards allowing our country to dish out more violence on to people in foreign lands, is the worst of the worst. We should all prepare ourselves to be on guard, to be able to notice when we are being fleeced. Also, if we do continue to poke our fingers in Russia’s eyes, will our Madison Ave. clique be so willing as to suit up and fight for this country a real war?
I thought that this article from JEFFREY ST. CLAIR explains a lot to how we Americans get bamboozled every time somebody (or a bunch of somebodies) want to go kill off some people in some far off places, that this is what they do to us peace loving Americans should be realized. War is sold to us Americans the same way toothpaste, or cars are sold to us.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/08/how-the-iraq-war-was-sold/
I have to chuckle simply b/c St. Clair is one of the intellectuals I read asap.
I’ve emailed him a few times over the years. Just a couple weeks ago I emailed him about the Brexit win, telling him how I wished his pseudo mentor Alexander Cockburn (one of my idols) was still alive to witness the Brexit. Jeffrey emailed me back right away saying that Alex would be having a blast over the news of the Brits voting for Brexit!
You and I both read a lot of the same stuff. Thanks for the tips though. St. Clair is tremendous.
Oh, one of the top intellectuals in the world today – professor emeritus James Petras – has a brand new book on the shelves titled “The End of the Republic and the Delusion of Empire” by Clarity Press. Can’t wait to dive in!
Survival “trumps” political correctness despite the faults of that particular candidate.
What’s so special about American lives? I don’t want to see anyone killed because of the blind ambition of a handful of American oligarchs, politicians and military goons. Yeah, the goons undoubtedly figure that, because they don’t possess the immense carrier groups or the worldwide military bases that we do, the Russians could never project a fraction of our offensive capabilities at a great distance. And, whatever their long range missile holdings, it is likely inferior to America’s and simply too expensive for lobbing mere TNT half way round the world. That tool, if ever used, will be nuclear to be at all effective. In their minds, we hold a royal flush and the Ruskies got nothin’ in their hand, as long as the response is contained to conventional ordnance. Europe needs to wake up and realise that the arrogant Americans are their true enemies, and in their midst, no one else.
The US may have greater economic power, but our military and defense leadership comes up short when it comes to intelligence. Not the kind that spooks come up with but the kind that tells you about such things as blowback and militias defending their homelands. The US hasn’t won any wars since Grenada and the turkey shoot along the Kuwait-Iraq border. Fifteen years after engaging the Taliban NATO is in a quagmire set up by Afghans with a budget that amounts to chump change at that five-sided black hole on the Potomac. Thirteen years after shock and awe in Baghdad the Dubya/Cheney troops got the hell out of Iraq without ever enjoying Cheney’s cakewalk. Instead of being welcomed with flowers their paths were paved with IEDs. As opponents of the Iraq war warned the Middle East would be destabilized. Quite possibly, the consequence are much worse than the pessimists predicted. And the US is saddled with an account payable estimated in the trillions.
Given that history and reports of a more intelligent military leadership in Russia, NATO might be on the most disastrous march of folly ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZTwRz-uLiM
WANKEE, GO HOME!
Realist, please read what the Saker has to say about Russia’s preparing for WWIII. Note; check out the Russians Club-K Container Kalibr missile system.
http://thesaker.is/how-russia-is-preparing-for-wwiii/
Yes, in fact, I believe that Russia has already deployed the Kalibr missile from ships in the Caspian Sea against ISIS in Syria, have they not? This was taken to be as much a demonstration of Russian capabilities to America as anything else. Two things: First, both Walsh and I represent our similar impression of the thinking by the goons in Washington. The goons believe that Russia has neither the will nor the means to effectively defend itself at this point in time. I mean, really, the cowboys have got to have a few screws loose to believe that Russia would just allow the extermination of their culture without laying a finger on exceptional America in return for the favor–but all evidence suggests that they do! So, the Russians have developed high technology weapons allowing them to reach America’s shores, and they want America to know this to serve as a deterrent. However, while America/NATO bombards Russia wholesale from close range on their very borders, from offshore carriers and from military bases ringing the country, Russia can deliver only a comparably limited number of very expensive strikes using the highest of their technology, even as America continues to dig in and stockpile ever more ordnance and personnel at Russia’s front and back doors using Europe and Japan/Korea as witless staging areas. To make this game of cultural extermination more equal, Russia would pretty much have to arm those Kalibrs with nukes. Otherwise, for every square block Russia loses in Moscow and St. Petersburg, Washington might lose a detached garage in San Diego or Arlington, Virginia. Remember, even while attempting to strike North America long range, Russia would still have to throw most of its defenses against hapless Europe and Japan/Korea, which is what America wants–to leave them once again king of the ravaged planet. As Walsh says, this is exactly how America plans to “win” this war–unless Russia goes nuclear. Japan stood up to relentless firebombing of Tokyo in WWII (which Russia, without control of the seas, would be hard put to match against Washington), it took Hiroshima and Nagasaki to adjust their attitude. According to Walsh, Washington is betting that Putin either folds before any shooting starts, or that he doesn’t have the guts to inflict comparable damage on America if it means using nukes. The neocons are betting that their immoral savagery bests what they think Putin’s is. If I recall correctly, I do believe that the Saker, Dimitry Orlov and the other Russian expats who penned the famous open letter a few weeks ago, stated that Russia would go nuclear against an existential American threat.
Every time I drive through West Viginia I see a place, like a house with shipping containers stack four high. Those shipping containers could be anywhere. Who has our ports contract? That’s the genius of the Club-K container Kaliblr.
Back in 2014 I recall watching a high Russian four star type read a report on their country’s defense capability up against a neighboring restless nation, who showed every sign of planning an attack on Russia. He seemed unnerved as he just went on to how their Russian military would respond. Everything was a response, and not an attack. That maybe good for us. I hope we repay the favor.
I wish America would quit with all this military response stuff, and join hands with the BRIC’s and settle into coequalships and be done with it. Have you ever noticed how when you do see a picture, of the BRIC leaders, how they are smiling and shaking hands with each other? Why, can’t America the UK & the EURO’s join in on that, and put their money towards something good? Why always with the war, and then chaos? At, least allow us peons to see what our masters have planned for us?
Yes, indeed. I am convinced that Russia would be overjoyed for us to join their club, so to speak.
Back in the early 70’s I knew a graduate student in the Indiana University Russian Studies Program, the same program that produced Stephen F. Cohen, our country’s foremost Russian expert. According to my acquaintance, the world experts in that program believed that the Soviet government of the time wanted nothing more than to become allies with America once again, just like they were during WWII. They remembered that relationship with great fondness. They wanted acceptance and respect… just as we all do.
During the Yeltsin era, the Russians actually requested membership in NATO, believing that, since they were no longer a threat, America would accept them into its club along with every other former Soviet bloc country. They were disdainfully given a big “nyet” by America in no uncertain terms. They were too valuable to keep as an “enemy.” Such is the madness in this world.
You made be think with your recollection of the 70’s and the U.S. Russian relationship. Below I am leaving a link to a Jeffrey St. Clair article, and it’s subject is about the USS Liberty. Pay close attention about two thirds into his piece, he mentions a Russian ship which approached the USS Liberty after the attack, before the American ship USS Davis arrived.
Coming out of WWII, and maybe a little after WWI, America has made it self into the biggest fish on the block. This was known no later than by Dwight D. Eisenhower’s term in office. I should add Curtis LeMay would make pronouncements like, how he could take care of Russia in 3 or so hours, if someone just says the word. So, after WWII, as you know, America pretty much towered over every other nation on this planet.
When Poppy Bush was riding high, after Desert Storm, he declared a New World Order…okay. You know the rest where Clinton explanded NATO, and then came 911. I’m wondering to if when the unknown future history is written about our times, that if historians won’t consider these current times as a crescendo coming out of the 20th century, and how all of this was just leading up to a climax, and then as empires do the U.S. will be seen as just another great super power who with all of this, and with all of that, suddenly just dissolved into dust. Plus, the NWO plan sucked.
I’m hoping that whatever the catastrophe, that it is something which doesn’t necessarily involve too much pain. It’s hard to analyze due to the poor news, and the slanted stuff, that you find yourself sorting through. What will the cable news network do when this presidential election us do? I mean with no Donald Trump, will there be empty air time? Even the best reader can only read so many books at a time. I will endorse consortium.news and just say that I find some other sites to have quality reporting, but I don’t sense to many others around me doing the same. Although, many around me are getting knowledge to what interest them, but geopolitics isn’t always one of those subjects of interest. So, it is good to share these conversations with you the other commenters.
I’m going to go down, nice conversation. JT
Here is that USS Libery story with mention of Russian ship by Jeffrey St. Clair
http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/10/24/israel-s-attack-on-the-liberty-revisited/
Read this one….
You made be think with your recollection of the 70’s and the U.S. Russian relationship. Below I am leaving a link to a Jeffrey St. Clair article, and it’s subject is about the USS Liberty. Pay close attention about two thirds into his piece, he mentions a Russian ship which approached the USS Liberty after the attack, before the American ship USS Davis arrived.
Coming out of WWII, and maybe a little after WWI, America has made it self into the biggest fish on the block. This was known no later than by Dwight D. Eisenhower’s term in office. I should add Curtis LeMay would make pronouncements like, how he could take care of Russia in 3 or so hours, if someone just say the word. So, after WWII, as you know, America pretty much towered over every other nation on this planet.
When Poppy Bush was riding high, after Desert Storm, he declared a New World Order…okay. You know the rest where Clinton explanded NATO, and then came 911. I’m wondering to if when the unknown future history is written about our times, that if historians won’t consider these current times as a crescendo coming out of the 20th century, and how all of this was just leading up to a climax, and then as empires do the U.S. will be seen as just another great super power who with all of this, and with all of that, suddenly just dissolved into dust. Plus, the NWO plan sucked.
I’m hoping that whatever the catastrophe, that it is something which doesn’t necessarily involve too much pain. It’s hard to analyze due to the poor news, and the slanted stuff, that you find yourself sorting through. What will the cable news network do when this presidential election is over? I mean with no Donald Trump, will there be just empty air time? Even the best reader can only read so many books at a time. I will endorse consortium.news and just say that I find some other sites to have quality reporting, but I don’t sense to many others around me doing the same. Although, many around me are getting knowledge to what interest them, but geopolitics isn’t always one of those subjects of interest. So, it is good to share these conversations with you the other commenters.
I’m going to go down, nice conversation. JT
Here is that USS Libery story with mention of Russian ship by Jeffrey St. Clair
http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/10/24/israel-s-attack-on-the-liberty-revisited/
Joe, America had designs on world domination by the turn of the 19th to the 20th century. The Spanish American War was ginned up for pure overseas conquest, just as the Mexican War had been 70 years earlier to acquire the entire Southwestern quadrant of our present borders. After T.R. won Cuba, the Philippines and Puerto Rico, Woodrow Wilson actually thought he could keep the Bolsheviks from cementing power in Russia after their revolution. So, he sent tens of thousands of American troops, including my grandfather who was assigned to duty in Siberia, to fight against the Red Army from 1918 to 1920. This was another war in which we and the Brits did not prevail, and is generally hushed up in the history books. It did start the precedent, however, for bad relations with Russia ever since.
As to the rationale of Israel for wanting to sink the Liberty and kill all hands, and especially the rationale of the U.S. government for wanting to completely cover up the operation and betray justice for our dead, I am at a loss. Seems no one can explain that any better than they can the UFO phenomenon. I suppose it does prove that our government can, in fact, keep some secrets when it really wants to do so.
You are right, that war your Grandfather was involved in with Russia, never gets mentioned almost ever. Wasn’t Churchill wrapped up in that war?
About the USS Liberty, that happened in 1967, and their Radioman saved the day by somehow connecting up to a transmitter to one of the ships last antennas, that wasn’t shot out. I served as a radioman between the years of 68-72, and there was never a word spoken of that ambush episode. So, if never mentioning the USS Liberty for even training instructions, well that tells you how well the lid was secured on to that little story very tight.
Realist , I saw some reports that the Pentagon admits in a shooting war ,Russia would prevail. This is an article on that very statement…http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-07/legendary-us-army-commander-says-russia-would-annihilate-us-head-head-battle
That article is referring to a conventional battle on the Eurasian continent, one in which America/NATO would be the invader and America would be required to project its force at a maximum distance. Entrenched and defending its own turf, yes, Russia would and SHOULD win such a contest. Though, in so doing, they would suffer tremendous damage, which is a point that Walsh made in his piece. Europe and probably Japan/Korea would also be devastated. The American goons would count that as victory, even if Russia won the war in Eurasia, because it would leave them decimated while America would stay pretty much untouched because Russia does not have the capability of projecting power halfway round the globe like America does. Russia does not have the staging areas of carrier task forces, a thousand overseas bases and missile batteries on their foes’ borders. It would prove very difficult and expensive for them to come over here and give us a punch in the nose. Mounting a land campaign on North American soil, even employing Chinese allies would be nigh impossible. Hence the need to rely on a nuclear deterrent. Their elusive new hypersonic missiles are only cost effective against America when nuclear tipped. This is why Europe and our Pacific allies should wise up. America considers you to be acceptable collateral damage in its game plan for World War III, but America thinks it can escape pretty much untouched by hiding behind your skirts, fellow humans in England, France, Germany, Japan, Korea, et al.