The Source of Romney’s Lying

Exclusive: An enduring mystery about Mitt Romney is why he lies so persistently and with so little shame. Some people blame his business experience or cite the basic dishonesty of politics, but there is also the curious foundation of his Mormon religion which was started by a proven conman, notes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

If some recent polls are correct, a plurality of Americans are planning to vote for Mitt Romney even though he may be the most persistent and professional liar to run for the U.S. presidency in recent memory, which is saying something. But what has attracted very little media attention is the question: why does Romney lie?

There have been some suggestions that Romney’s mendacity is an outgrowth of his business experience as a corporate takeover artist who tells investors and other stakeholders pretty much anything to close a deal. But that misses the reality of the business world where a reputation as a chronic liar can be lethal to long-term success.

Joseph Smith Jr., the founder of Mormonism, in a painting by an unknown artist.

No, Romney’s lying most recently revealed in his false claim about General Motors and Chrysler shifting U.S. auto jobs to China appears connected to something deeper in his personality, psyche or life experience.

One theory is that Romney is consumed by a blind ambition, obsessed with claiming the office of President that was denied his father because he was too honest while his Republican rival, Richard Nixon, was anything but. Another possibility is that Romney has surrendered whatever ethics he had to the longstanding Republican political strategy of winning at all cost, ironically a playbook inherited from Nixon. [See Robert Parry’s America’s Stolen Narrative.]

A third possible explanation is tied to Romney’s Mormon religion which was founded in the 19th Century by a notorious conman, Joseph Smith Jr., who as a youth used a “seer stone” to advise people where to hunt for buried treasure. He later expanded on his supposed visions to start his own religion, Mormonism.

Smith, aided by a few collaborators, created the Book of Mormon which Smith claimed was delivered to him in 1827 by an angel Moroni via golden plates buried in upstate New York. Smith supposedly translated the plates, which told a truly unbelievable tale about ancient Israelites coming to the Americas. Smith’s golden plates, which supposedly contained a form of Egyptian writing that he alone could translate, then conveniently disappeared, making it impossible to verify Smith’s fantastical story, at least from the alleged text on the plates.

Archaeologists and scientists have since noted that the Book of Mormon is full of assertions about animals, plants, architecture and technologies that didn’t exist in the Americas prior to the European arrival. Scholars note, too, that there are no linguistic or DNA links between Native Americans and people of the ancient Near East.

Still, after the Book of Mormon was published, Smith was on a roll, drawing converts from a U.S. population caught up in the religious fervor of the so-called Second Great Awakening. Smith then went a step further, pretending to translate some actual Egyptian hieroglyphics from old papyri. Smith claimed the papyri represented the writings of Israelite patriarch Abraham himself. The “translation” became the Book of Abraham.

Decades later, however, that bogus claim collapsed when scholars became more proficient at translating hieroglyphics and revealed Smith’s papyri to be nothing more than routine Egyptian funeral instructions.

Despite the traditional Mormon narrative portraying Smith and the early Mormons as victims of religious bigotry, many of the controversies that followed Smith to his death in 1844 at the hands of an angry mob in Illinois related to his scamming local residents out of money and his insistence on an intolerant theocracy with him in charge.

Romney’s Church

Today some of the quirky practices of Smith and his early male followers such as their desire to have sex with multiple women “sealed” to them as wives have been disavowed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but important remnants of Smith’s theocratic con game are still in place, such as the claim that the church’s top leader receives regular instructions directly from God.

Romney also is not just some rank-and-file Mormon following the faith of his parents and enjoying the church’s rituals. Rather, he is a former church bishop who comes from Mormon “royalty” with ancestors dating back to the earliest followers of Joseph Smith, including Parley Pratt and Miles Romney, the church’s first architect.

As a member of that “royalty,” Romney has benefited both in his business and political life from the concentration of Mormon wealth under the control of church leaders in Salt Lake City, Utah. While average Mormons often tithe to the church and get few non-religious benefits in return, the “royalty” are well-placed for the church’s powerful support derived from holdings worth tens of billions of dollars.

So, Romney’s fealty to the church and its insistence that Joseph Smith be viewed as a holy prophet, not a mendacious conman, is not simply a matter of true faith, but one of financial and political advantage. Of course, as with anyone, it’s impossible to know where Romney’s religious convictions end and his career aggrandizement begins.

From the U.S. tradition of freedom of religion, Americans also are hesitant to make judgments about the religious beliefs of others, though many on the Right have tried to exploit bigotry toward Islam by insisting that President Barack Obama is not a Christian, but rather a Muslim. By contrast, the Obama campaign and Democrats have steered clear of any criticism of Romney’s Mormonism.

It’s also true that most religions have fantastical or supernatural elements, such as Jesus’s virgin birth and his walking on water. However, Judaism, Christianity and Islam rely on ancient texts that date back millennia and often merged oral histories with self-serving myths designed to impress primitive societies.

The difference with Mormonism and other newer religions is that the origins of their holy writings and the motives of their founders can be more fully researched and explained. Mormon scholars have accessed the church’s archives and some have led the way in exposing the early deceptions used by Smith and other church founders.

For instance, Joseph Smith’s “Book of Abraham” supposedly “translated” by Smith in 1835 was debunked by both Mormon and secular scholars after remnants of Smith’s papyri were discovered and could be actually translated due to the improved understanding of Egyptian hieroglyphics that evolved through the 19th Century.

Virtually everything that Smith claimed about the papyri was false. The documents make no reference to Abraham and were dated some 1,500 years after Abraham’s supposed life. According to scholars, the papyri recounted funeral practices of Egypt in the period of about the First Century BC.

Smith’s apologists have been left to defend his fraudulent depiction of the papyri by claiming that Smith’s translation was by revelation, not by determining what the hieroglyphics literally said or that he possibly saw meanings embedded in the text that would be invisible to everyone else.

Yet, for a religion dependent on Smith’s honesty, such as when he claimed to have discovered the golden plates containing the Book of Mormon and other items that subsequently went magically missing, the empirical debunking of the one set of Smith’s documents that have survived, the papyri used for the “Book of Abraham,” is devastating as clear proof of Smith’s fraudulent practices.

[For a moving personal account of a Mormon woman facing up to the truth about her religion, see Kay Burningham’s An American Fraud.]

Relevance of a Religion

So, as sensitive as religious beliefs can be, Romney’s Mormon faith has relevance to the American electorate in several ways. First, does he really believe the discredited and ludicrous claims by Mormon founder Joseph Smith?

It’s true that people can separate some of the tenets of their religions from their day-to-day lives, like fundamentalist Christians who embrace a literal reading of the Bible but work successfully in scientific fields. However, gullibility or magical thinking in a U.S. President can be dangerous, either in his dealings with foreign leaders or in his control of the devastating American military arsenal, including nuclear weapons.

Before entrusting the nuclear codes to one person, the American people might want to know whether the person is grounded in the real world.

Secondly, if Romney is not a true-believer and is not someone who accepts Smith’s absurdities as real, then is Romney simply an opportunist who follows the Mormon religion because its connections have proved advantageous to him? While viewing Romney as an opportunist might be more reassuring than thinking of him as a fantasist, it doesn’t reflect well on him either.

Thirdly, assuming again that Romney understands the true history of Joseph Smith’s successful fraud, does Romney’s appreciation of Smith as a consummate conman help explain Romney proclivity to lie with such confidence? After all, if your religion enshrines a liar of Smith’s caliber as one of history’s greatest men, a prophet whose religion allows its current leaders to literally speak with God, then your view of lying might well be skewed.

Thus, it makes sense that Romney would experience little or no shame when he makes claims that are patently untrue. After all, they are no more false than Joseph Smith’s stories about disappearing golden plates and his translation of the “Book of Abraham.”

So, knowing that the ends can justify the means, Romney would have no reason to think twice when he lies, such as when he claimed not to have seen an attack ad against Republican rival Newt Gingrich and then went on to describe its contents. Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen was so impressed by the coolness of Romney’s lying that he devoted a column to praising Romney’s skill.

“Among the attributes I most envy in a public man (or woman) is the ability to lie,” Cohen wrote. “If that ability is coupled with no sense of humor, you have the sort of man who can be a successful football coach, a CEO or, when you come right down to it, a presidential candidate. Such a man is Mitt Romney.” [See’s “Mitt Romney: Professional Liar.”]

Romney showed off those skills again and again as the campaign progressed, including when he framed his nominating convention around a gross misrepresentation of Obama’s “You didn’t build that” quote and a false claim that Obama had gutted the work requirement for welfare. [See’s “Finally, Fact-Checking Romney’s Lie.”]

Then, in the pivotal first debate, Romney claimed that his health-care plan would cover people with preexisting conditions when his own campaign later acknowledged that it wouldn’t and that his proposed tax cuts would be revenue neutral as he refused to explain how such magical math might work. [See’s “Did Romney Win the Debate?”]

Ironically, even as Romney lied about substantial issues, Obama took the brunt of the damage from the first debate when Democrats and progressives joined in denouncing Obama for not denouncing Romney’s lies more aggressively.

Now, in the campaign’s final days, Romney has come up with a new lie about Obama and the bailed-out automakers, Chrysler and General Motors, as betrayers of American workers because of alleged plans to move manufacturing plants to China.

Romney’s comments were followed by an ad, which claimed “Barack Obama says he saved the auto industry, but for who, Ohio or China?” The attack strategy prompted extraordinary denials from Chrysler and GM, deeming the charge that they were planning to shift U.S. jobs abroad as false.

“The ad is cynical campaign politics at its worse,” GM spokesman Greg Martin said. “We think creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back in this country should be a source of bipartisan pride.”

However, for whatever reason, Mitt Romney has learned that lying works and that it is no cause for shame. Indeed, lying has become one of his defining characteristics, which American voters might want to consider as they cast their ballots on Nov. 6.

Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s. You can buy his new book, America’s Stolen Narrative, either in print here or as an e-book (from Amazon and

54 comments for “The Source of Romney’s Lying

  1. tedbohne
    November 14, 2012 at 14:31

    what’s the matter with god? can’t speak for HIMself. gotta use halfwits to do his talking for him? a jealous, angry, loving, god, traits i try to avoid myself, can’t step up to the plate!? what sort of hogwash is this? the world was almost free of the kind of crap that goes on today. only a tiny percentage of ignorant people. very little technology by today’s standards. yet, ole god decided to send his only begotten “son” (yeah right)down to be killed to appease HIM!! now if that’s not showboating, i’m damned if i know what it is. almost better than George W. Bush!! not quite though. the bible has been translated and re-translated since then. James the sixth king of England being one of the latest. the smelly cheese ALL these phony books exude is nauseating.
    so god picks some one like joseph smith to relay moronic garbage? and lets not forget jesus and mohammed. moses and all the rest of the gang. propagandistic garbage to terrorize still ignorant people world wide. the world is millions of times more screwed up now than ‘biblical” times or any other such time. why ain’t god sent down one of his OTHER sons to save us all now!

  2. Otto Schiff
    November 5, 2012 at 20:29

    Liars should not be elected to the presidency.
    We know that from sad experience.

  3. Madapa Ka
    November 5, 2012 at 16:25

    When will MODERN HUMANS realize or accept that the stories in the Bible are FICTION. Gods, Goddesses, heaven, hell, angels, devils, demons, etc. were all HUMAN INVENTIONS. How can modern humans possibly believe that a God created an Adam from dusts and an Eve from one of Adam’s ribs?

    Christian leaders should explain how Noah and family were able to build the Ark. How long did it take them to build the Ark. How were they able to cut the trees, take the cut trees to level lands and make lumbers from it. How were they able to gather all the animals, especially the dinosaurs. How did they feed all the animals and how did they clean up the doodoos of the animals. How did Noah and family REPOPULATE the world? Where did Noah’s sons find their mates?

    There are other stories that need to be explained. These christian leaders cannot continue to brainwash everybody from childhood to death that fictional stories from the bible are true stories. The fictional characters in the bible were CONFLATED with real people, real places and real events, just like modern books of fiction are written.

    All the Gods/Goddesses of the egyptians, greeks, romans and pagans vanished after a group of humans decided it was better to have ONLY ONE GOD. That showed humans can create, invent or eliminate Gods/Goddesses anytime. At present, there are as many Gods as there are religions so forget about the ONE GOD CRAP.

    No way can a human invented God get a very young virgin named Mary pregnant to give birth to Jesus. The virgin birth story was popular in mythologies. Jesus Christ was just the virgin birth version of the Christian cult.

    All religions are cults.

  4. neoconned
    November 4, 2012 at 21:31

    Let the first religion which can be proven to be true cast the rest out.

    Until then -and this will be a LONG time- throw them all out. They are all collections of lies intended to mystify and befuddle so that the more mentally nimble can benefit from their skullduggery of the others.

  5. ORAXX
    November 4, 2012 at 19:53

    Lying isn’t really lying if done in the name of Jesus, and for a higher purpose. Like money. (Sarcasm)

  6. CBid
    November 4, 2012 at 13:34

    So, if I were to claim: “God told me to skin you alive,” and actually acted on it.
    Then said that I read the “Divine Revelation that instructed me to do it on some shiny, gold chargers that I found in my back yard and pain-stakingly translated myself, but now it seems they’ve disappeared…
    What do ya think the likelihood would be that it’s not true?

  7. Cassandra
    November 4, 2012 at 11:25

    Atheism is a disbelief in religion, not a disbelief in a god or nature. I personally will not be dictated to by “men” who in the interest of gaining control over the gullible and superstitious and vast personal wealth from “donations” (tithing). The most significant statement in the entire religious bookdom world is John 4.8. Those who would be corrupted by material gains are those who are “religious”.
    Willard M. Romney cannot be trusted, those who have mentioned the narcisisim are absolutely correct, he acrtually thinks people are jealous of his ill gotten wealth, the only explanation for those who would vote for him for the office of the presidency is mass psychosis.

  8. exo ra luna
    November 3, 2012 at 17:16

    The real answer here is: Pernicious Narcissism. It is a trait that I have seen that is rampant in the rank and file of moremans. It is extreme and some say it cannot be treated. Although,I believe that with behavior modification it may be quashed before it becomes a problem.
    Here is an article which explains just a little:
    Otherwise just reading about, and pesonally knowing several narcissist gives me a layman’s view.

  9. bernice
    November 3, 2012 at 01:02

    Mitt Romney is mentally distrubed!!! Either a narrissist, a socialpath or both!! I worked for someone just like Mitt Romney who was a unshameful liar, bully, ontrol freak, paraniod,con artist , greedy unremorseful, multiple personas depending on who was present and how he benefited, awkwardly socially yet charming, takes credit for other’s work, highly ambitious without willing to work, feels entitlementparriot other’s words as if came from himself, crazed gleam in eye, distnt look in eyes, sinister smile when think has upper hand or plotting and vindictive!!
    Mitt’s wife has given hints, but no one payed much attention when she said she worries about his mental health if he does not win!! I worry about ours if he does!!

  10. Ian Menikos
    November 2, 2012 at 21:56

    Well I guess it’s time to unlike this group. I really believe the Republican party has a very real progressive “monarchy”, meaning a monarchy that is made up of several people united under a single idea, that they have running much in our country. However, this story about Joseph Smith is ludacris. He was in no way ever though of us a conman, and every aspect of the article is absolutely wrong in regards to the the history behind him. In this article you are just as bad as many in the Republican campaign. You should be ashamed and whoever posted this article should be fired. You’re an absolute and total moron.

    • F. G. Sanford
      November 5, 2012 at 22:14

      Sorry, Ian, but Joseph Smith was actually convicted of fraud by a real court in the State of New York. It’s a matter of public record in the National Archives and existing copies of the circulating newspapers of the day. Typical of fascist cults, the adherents would like to be able to rewrite history to suit their delusions, but it would be almost impossible in this case. Hundreds of reputable scholars have documented the truth in publications now available the world over. Joseph Smith was killed by an angry mob for coveting other mens wives, a well-deserved consequence of his perverted pecadillos. He was nothing but an unscrupulous liar and serial sex-offender.

  11. ConstitutionalCommando
    November 2, 2012 at 12:41

    You are bigoted GOD DAMN LIAR

    • gregorylkruse
      November 2, 2012 at 12:58

      Who, me?

  12. Glenn
    November 2, 2012 at 08:44

    And the so-called media let it all slide, they can’t bring themselfs to call a lie a lie

  13. nveric
    November 2, 2012 at 02:28

    Democrat hate mongers continue there assault on religion, Perry is no different.

    • nora king
      November 2, 2012 at 09:35

      If you have not had the disturbing experience of molestation by a religious leader, perhaps you can construe legislative restraint against child sex abuse as a hater zone, but the truth, it is far from that. Safety for human dignity and protection of the innocent from abuse of power is the fundamental reason driving those who changed the laws I spoke of. There was a Democrat, an Independent and a Republican in the small, informal citizen network that worked the legislature and defined the changes. All had been victimized but decided not to be victims. Is that hate, to protect others from bad things you have experienced?

      It is the idealistic little kid who sang Jesus wants me for a sunbeam for the old ladies on sunday morning who grew up, took responsibility for living in an evolving republic. That same kid in me wants to know why few besides RP here lift their voices and concerns about the theocratic dangers having a secretive religious leader in the white house. I like to keep church and state at a safe distance.

  14. GENE
    November 2, 2012 at 00:05


    • nora king
      November 2, 2012 at 00:47

      so lying is as American as cherry pie?

  15. bobzz
    November 1, 2012 at 23:55

    What if Romney really believes that the original Mormons connect in some way with the Israelites that Mormons claim came to the Americas? Is this part of his close connection with Israel today? If that is true, and I do not know if it is, the possibility of war with Iran will become a probability, and Romney will rip the social safety net to pay for it. If he is not going to borrow money from China to pay for it, to what other well can he go except education, research and development, infrastructure, food inspection, etc., etc., for money?

    I for one strongly believe a candidate’s religious beliefs are fair game. We do not want a Christian Zionist as president. Mitt may be in that camp; if not, he is surely inclined in that direction.

  16. Julie
    November 1, 2012 at 23:36

    Mormons have a policy of “milk before meat” in which they lure potential converts with the more attractive aspects of their religion, leaving the wackier parts to be introduced later. Revealing the really wacky parts too early scares the prey away. It’s similar to what Mitt is doing with regards to confusing the voters with what he stands for. He gives us his “milk” now, and we’ll get the “meat” later, after he’s president.

  17. Richard
    November 1, 2012 at 21:41

    I think something else about the Mittster. I believe that he suffers from a particular delusional psychological condition called “narcissistic personality disorder. ” This syndrome has about 15 or 16 touchstone symptoms, and Mitt seems to have them all. The driver of this delusion is habitual or psychopathic lying. Lying is simply an integral part of this syndrome.

    Here is a helpful link, from the Mayo Clinic:

    And this:

    Really a pretty simple diagnosis of the guy. He will never stop lying, ever. Can you imagine what someone like this would be as President?

  18. richpeterson
    November 1, 2012 at 20:24

    There is another possible explanation. Mental illness. Ann Romney admitted she has concern for her husband’s mental stability under the pressures of the Presidency.

    Compulsive lieing appears in people who feel extreme shame of who they really are, and therefor generate a perpetual smokescreen. Often, maybe usually due to childhood abuse.

    Romney’s hurricane relief spectacle reveals something more. A true leader would have contacted the President to ask how bad it is and what is being done, then what can I do? Romney dreamed up a scam of buying items for the crowd to donate, then discovered the Red Cross couldn’t accept those donations. He didn’t call to see what they needed?

    I think the GO should find out who was actually running Bain Capital when Romney had the title of CEO. Then find the person who actually ran the Salt Lake City Olympics. And try to persuade them to be the 2016 candidates.

  19. Karen Romero
    November 1, 2012 at 19:15

    Thanks for another good article Robert Parry! I have already informed the Bishop of Idaho that the Mormon lunatics are not allowed to steal my batismal records. One of the most arrogant actions they do is baptismal by proxy. How crazy is that? I do know for a fact their religion teaches it is okay to lie and cheat others. I am a testimony to the fact that Mormon females are taught it is okay to lie and steal other woman’s husbands. I have been married twice and two different Mormon females attempted to steal each husband. The second Mormon whore one was the most insidious liar’s I have ever encountered! And, yes I do blame her more than I blame my second husband.
    If I hadn’t been personally violated by this religious group, I wouldn’t care what they thought or did. The fact is more than one Mormon has personally violated me, and I find their insideous lies to be abhorrent and disgusting!

  20. LanceThruster
    November 1, 2012 at 19:11

    I’d like to see this question. JFK went out of his way to establish he was not the pope’s puppet. But the pope is only considered infallible in regards to RCC doctrine. Romney has as the head of his church, God’s prophet on earth. [see quote below]

    I’d like him to asked that if the LDS president/prophet made a ruling or request of him that impacted his role as president of all the American people, would he feel obligated to follow it, and would he feel obligated to disclose to the American people what was asked of him.

    It’s not just that I think of him as a complete weasel, but as that perception is not without merit, I’d like to know his answer.

    “When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God’s Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.”1

    from: Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945

  21. JKH
    November 1, 2012 at 18:58

    What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church…a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie. Such lies would not be against God. He would accept them.
    – Martin Luther

  22. warren leming
    November 1, 2012 at 18:09

    lying is a great american presidential tradition. consider lee atwaters work for george bush senior…. or karl rove lying for the son. nixon was consummate- and it came to cost him. but romney is something special, something to be wondered at, something to be revered… in the great annals of lying his name will be legion. he lies with no conscience or compunction, with no compassion, and without thinking… and thats just the way.. should he win… he will govern…. sorry… rule.

  23. fosforos
    November 1, 2012 at 17:18

    The obvious (to anyone but an Obama zealot) reason why Romney supporters are insensitive to Romney’s lies is that they know quite well that *all politicians lie*. So that Romey lies is no reason to vote for Obama, who lies just as much and just as shamelessly. Examples:
    -His promise to renegotiate NAFTA
    -His professed opposition to “individual mandates” in a health-insurance plan
    -His assertion that Osama bin Laden was “brought to justice,” when executing a criminal suspect without trial is nothing but lynching, the very opposite of justice.
    -His claim that the Republicans wouldn’t let him close the Guantanamo black hole, when the commander-in-chief has the incontestable right to set up a POW camp anywhere on federal territory
    -his claim that Republican failure to increase the debt limit forced him into the “fiscal cliff” deal, when the president has clear constitutional (14th amendment) and statutory (platinum-coinage act of 1994) authority to finance any government obligations, debt-limit legislation notwithstanding
    etc., etc., ad nauseam

  24. Alan8
    November 1, 2012 at 16:29


    Liars are everywhere. Voting for them is an act of stupidity. Americans may be getting the government they deserve. Unfortunately.

    • Carolann
      November 1, 2012 at 18:42

      If Romney is a liar, how are we supposed to believe him as our next president in anything he tells us? What if all his promises are lies? If he tells us he is going to create change is he lying? I don’t trust the x%X*x+x%x*

  25. Frank McEvoy
    November 1, 2012 at 16:27

    Every person I describe Mormon history to, when I ask what happened to the just-translated gold plates, everyone says, “They disappeared.” Old schtick is still old schtick.

  26. No Lies for God
    November 1, 2012 at 16:03

    To clarify my earlier post: I saw what might be some ambiguity: I was talking about atheists’ believing the Bible is mythic and created by humans; I certainly believe- as do all LDS- that it is inspired of God. Nevertheless, I do believe as the LDS (and some other Churches do) that it has been tampered with- including additions, changes and additions.

    • RW Jackson
      November 1, 2012 at 17:11

      Anyone with a brain realizes that men wrote the bible. I am so tired of hearing about how inspired they were. What does inspired mean? The belief soaked lemmings need to believe it means the same as if god wrote it. What a preposterous self delusion? Of course, there is no god, so what you have is the ravings of some of the ignorant people who ever lived. Lewis Black had it right when he said,have you ever seen the people on the Jerry Springer Show/ This is now, imagine what they were like then? And you, sir, are no different.

      • F. G. Sanford
        November 1, 2012 at 20:21

        Well said, RW. My favorite Lewis Black line is, “These people think ‘The Flintstones’ is a documentary”.

    • Realist1953
      November 2, 2012 at 10:13

      The bible, and ALL other religions [AND the books], are creations of MAN [humans].

      As for your claim of ‘tampered’ – you bet they are, and the bible may have the MOST changes. My mum-in-law did a lot of searching, and finally found a Jesuit who SHOWED her some of the “extra books” that the Pope had removed ages ago [including ‘a book’ written by Mary [the prostitute]]

      Yes, I have turned atheist – it is the ONLY LOGICAL BELIEF and all it took was looking at the world and deciding “they say ‘thank god’ when THEIR house is saved, but won’t admit it was god that brought the destructive storm in the first place” wich killed/maimed their friends, AND similar things as for babies burned, raped, etc etc.

      • ChetFields
        November 2, 2012 at 18:52

        I think that I am a person of above average intelligence, (certainly not ignorant), I find a very keen interest in the sciences, logic, etc. I even think I understand quite a bit about how the material world works, from cosmology, to chemistry, to biology and I fail to understand how some people habitually denigrate anyone who believes in ‘god’ as ignorant and illogical or unreasoning. All of my understanding of the universe from the very large to the very small together with my logic and reason and intelligence points to my belief in the existence of an incredibly powerful and intelligent source behind the existence of the universe and of course life. Religions, and religious teachings and the goings on of so-called religious people, however, is another matter entirely. Please don’t give up on the existence of a very powerful and wise creator just from the behavior of a bunch of religious whackos. And just because there are certain natural phenomena for which you don’t understand the whys, this should not be sufficient ‘proof’ that ‘god’ does not exist. Why should ‘god’ get the blame of being directly responsible for ‘natural’ disasters? How about using a little intelligence in deciding on a better location?

  27. kp
    November 1, 2012 at 15:46

    I lived in Utah and witnessed first-hand, too many times to count, how powerful members of the Mormon Church willingly and freely lie. I don’t mean about their faith, but in everyday life and business. It’s astounding. And the more power a person held, the bigger the lies and the bigger the lies of the people surrounding him (always a ‘him’) hoping to catch a little of his power. And power in Mormon circles relates to money.

    It is one of the most backward and a-moral places in the US.

    • Bill in Oregon
      November 3, 2012 at 11:15

      Ezra Taft Benson (who was President Eisenhower’s Secretary of Agriculture and later the President of the Mormon church) said this regarding business transactions:

      “We are grateful that members of the Church for the most part are striving to live the gospel and dealing justly with their fellowmen. But are we not all saddened and disappointed when Church members are found guilty of taking advantage of others through business transactions or are judged guilty of breaking the laws of God and man? As Church members, blessed with the truths of the gospel, the Lord expects us to be honest, morally clean, chaste, free from profanity and vulgarity, trustworthy, and exemplary in all our conduct.”

      So while individual members of the LDS church may not live up to their own standards, they are certaintly not taught to lie or be dishonest.

  28. nora king
    November 1, 2012 at 15:31

    Romney was a Bishop when we changed the law in California to protect children from religious sexual abuse. In 1999, just as we changed the law, an LDS elder had a prophetic vision to change the LDS veil ceremony, in which frontal contact between a male functionary and all worshippers took place. In accordance with actuary risk, their prophesy change came just in time to avoid lawsuits in Cali.

    Where lies truth when it is defined by prophesy?

    I think all the factors mentioned place some part, but the skitzy nature of a clergy identity requires the lie. The essential lie is that clergy are better moral human beings, which they are not. The group halucination requires a two faced clergy. I think bad boy Mitt with the 47 per cent is a backlash againt the constraints of piety. He is a peice of work, either way.

    Ther has not been enough scrutiny of Mitt’s misdeeds with Mormon women when he was the Belmont Bishop. During that time, we busted the Methodist, the Catholics, etc. and they were all covering up sex crimes. The chances Mitt was any different, 0.


  29. Morton Kurzweil
    November 1, 2012 at 15:26

    Romney does not lie. He can’t tell true from false. His religion, and other sources of certainty require intuitive knowledge,
    a feeling, a sense, an emotion of right and wrong – a feel good satisfaction of knowing the unknowable.

    Lewis Carroll nailed these characters over a hundred years ago:

    “Be what you would seem to be – or if you’d like it put more simply – Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.”
    – The Duchess, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland.

  30. Randal Marlin
    November 1, 2012 at 15:19

    The theory of the big lie is at work. No one could believe that anyone who has been involved in out-sourcing U.S. auto jobs to China could possibly have the nerve, the gall, to falsely accuse someone else of doing exactly that.

    The public reasons therefore that either Romney is innocent or Obama is guilty as charged. It simply defies belief that he would expose his own vulnerability by such mendacity.

    But there you have it. The reason why the big lie works.

  31. incontinent reader
    November 1, 2012 at 14:54

    Bob, You’ve hit another journalistic HR with this one.

  32. Jym Allyn
    November 1, 2012 at 14:53

    Unfortunately the lies and the nature of those lies will be irrelevant to the Creationist True Believers who will be voting for Rmoney (sic).

    Also, as much as I hate to agree with Rehmat, the biggest problem facing Israel today is not Iran or the Palestinians, but the blind stupidity and fundamentalism of the Orthodox Jews who run Israel.

    My understanding of Judaism initially comes from my Orthodox background. A cursory reading of Josephus will help you understand that the reason for Rome’s destruction of Judea starting at Masada was the obsessive self-righteousness of the Jewish leadership in 70 CE. Hopefully, things can change in 1950 years.

    And the Mormon “religion” was, is, and always will be a cult. The question for our Constitution is at what point does a “religion” become a cult and no longer protected.

    What is needed is a Constitutional challenge to the teaching of Evolution so that the people who espouse the literal “word” of the Bible and Creationism can be labeled as cults and no longer have Constitutional protection.

    I bet there will be a lot of those cultist, however, that will then emphatically try to also protect their second Amendment rights by pretending that their cult is really a militia. Oh. Wait. That is already being done.

  33. Jym Allyn
    November 1, 2012 at 14:51

    Unfortunately the lies and the nature of those lies will be irrelevant to the Creationist True Believers who will be voting for Rmoney (sic).

    And as much as I hate to agree with Rehmat, the biggest problem facing Israel today is not Iran or the Palestinians, but the blind stupidity and fundamentalism of the Orthodox Jews who run Israel.

    My understanding of Judaism initially comes from my Orthodox background. A cursory reading of Josephus will help you understand that the reason for Rome’s destruction of Judea starting at Masada was the obsessive self-righteousness of the Jewish leadership in 70 CE. Hopefully, things can change in 1950 years.

    And the Mormon “religion” was, is, and always will be a cult. The question for our Constitution is at what point does a “religion” become a cult and no longer protected.

    What is needed is a Constitutional challenge to the teaching of Evolution so that the people who espouse the literal “word” of the Bible and Creationism can be labeled as cults and no longer have Constitutional protection.

    I bet there will be a lot of those cultist, however, that will then emphatically try to also protect their second Amendment rights by pretending that their cult is really a militia. Oh. Wait. That is already being done.

  34. Julie
    November 1, 2012 at 14:50

    There’s also the possibility that the Mittster is engaging in “Lying for the Lord”, which I believe is one of the LDS’s practices.

    • No lLies for God
      November 1, 2012 at 15:57

      No, “lying for the Lord” is fundamentalist traditional Christianity: it comes out of the Apostle Paul’s admission of doing so; LDS do not practice this. I am LDS but am NO supporter of Mitt Romney.

      And contrary to Parry’s article, there is some solid evidence for the validity of the LDS faith. This hardly the forum to expound, however, on this topic.

      I will give a couple of examples however: the Dead Sea Scrolls support LDS teachings and they were discovered one heckuva long time after Joseph Smith’s lifetime.

      The Book of Mormon is quite complex and effort after effort to destroy its credibility by the use of computers, for instance have fallen flat.

      And the reason we have had so many conversions among Island peoples is that when the missionaries went over there their oral traditions matched some of the Bk o M writings.

      I have discussed the teachings with atheists from time-to-time, and they admitted that there was more evidence for the Bk of M than the Bible– that so many things contained in the book couldn’t have been known in J Smith’s time and much of the Bible is either mythic or unproven. Of course we believe in the Bible but whereas much of it can be said to be totally out of man’s imagination (which I do NOT believe) again, a number of things contained in the Bk of Mormon could hardly have been made up, and the Bk of M came out way before many discoveries validating some of its contents. Silk is mentioned and this was ridiculed by “experts” re the time period- one example– then- what happened? Silk was indeed discovered in the time period.

      No, Romney’s lying has nothing to do with the Church’s teachings or Joseph Smith- on the contrary he violates the teachings of Jesus, especially with his bearing false witness.

      • bobzz
        November 1, 2012 at 23:37

        “No, “lying for the Lord”…comes out of the Apostle Paul’s admission of doing so.” Please direct me to where Paul said this, so I can evaluate it.

      • Meremark
        November 2, 2012 at 01:32

        If elected Romney would be the first non-Christian president.

      • Realist1953
        November 2, 2012 at 09:51

        The “Lying Mormon” thing IS REAL — not only was I subjected to it from a “friend and business co-worker” [screwed me in a business deal] — but later I found a friend from High School who became Mormon, and SHE TOLD ME that there is a section of Mormon’s that, just like Muslim’s being told “do anything, say anything, to enemies”, Mormons are “allowed to lie to non-believers”.

        As for some of the claims in this article [“ancient Israelites coming to the Americas.”], she has had her faith shaken by the DNA findings [“there are no linguistic or DNA links between Native Americans and people of the ancient Near East.”]

        I will accept that YOU may not believe that to lie is a PART of your religion, but I have First-Hand-Knowledge that there IS at least a section of Mormons that DO — and apparently Romney is one of those.

        AND – I appreciate that you are willing to ‘call him on it’.

        • Larry
          November 5, 2012 at 21:41

          I very much doubt Lincoln was a Christian.

      • historicus
        November 2, 2012 at 11:04

        Thorough archaeological investigation has so far failed to discover a single armor fragment, or arrowhead, or spear point, at any of the sites where Mormonism claims thousands of armed men fought bloody battles. In the Old World such sites continue to yield relics in abundance.

        • Marty
          November 4, 2012 at 22:15

          Jerry – your rant is both scary and disgusting. And full of misspellings, which probably goes with both scary and disgusting. Just put a sock in it.

      • Elian Gonzalez
        November 4, 2012 at 02:21

        Sorry buddy, but there is absolutely no pedigree between Mormonism, Christianity or Judaism.

      • R M Greer
        November 6, 2012 at 17:06

        There is no such thing as an Atheist. But, I and a good deal of the informed come as close as possible. I believe the Big Bang Theory is far more believable with huge amount of scientific evidence to back it up. You put on a very good defense, but, there is far more “snake oil” served up than most other Judo/Islam/Christianity beliefs. The book of Mormon, believes that there are many other intelligent worlds with their own god. That is is possible for a man to become a god in his own right. The “golden tablets and most especially the emerald code breaking glasses are more ridiculous than any other of the above named religious beliefs. Mormons are a Cult, along with Scientology and Religious Science. I could write a small book on the Mormon missionaries in the pacific islands. I will support your right to believe any and all of what are the teachings of Mormonism, even though you do not support mine.

    • Carol Hunt
      November 6, 2012 at 14:45

      People con by telling multiples of lies. If 1 or 2 happens to be found true, that does not make up for the 200 misses. If I make statements about anyone, and keeping going, eventually I will say something right. You are a boy, you are white, you have brown hair, you are medium height, you are neat, you are generous, and so one. The longer I am allowed to continue, the more contrived evidence I am able to make from my case. That is what a conman does.

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