The House Intelligence Committee’s vote on Monday to release a memorandum describing alleged malfeasance at the DOJ and the FBI could test constitutional principles, writes Ray McGovern.
By Ray McGovern
With the House Intelligence Committee vote yesterday to release its four-page memorandum reportedly based on documentary evidence of possible crimes by top Justice Department and FBI leaders, the die is cast. Russia-gate and FBI-gate are now joined at the hip.
The coming weeks will show whether the U.S. intelligence establishment (the FBI/CIA/NSA, AKA the “Deep State”) will be able to prevent its leaders from being held to account. Past precedent suggests that the cabal that conjured up Russia-gate will not have to pick up a “go-to-jail” card. This, despite the widespread guilt suggested by the abrupt way that several senior-echelon DOJ and FBI rats have already jumped ship. Not to mention the manner in which FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, was unceremoniously pushed overboard yesterday, after Director Christopher Wray was given a look at the extra-legal capers described in the House Intelligence Committee memorandum.
Granted, at first glance Deep State’s efforts to undercut candidate Donald Trump at first seem so risky and audacious as to be unbelievable. By now, though, Americans should be able to wrap their heads around, one, the dire threat that outsider Trump was seen to be posing to the Deep State and to the ease with which it held sway under President Barack Obama; and, two, expected immunity from prosecution if Deep State crimes were eventually discovered after the election, since “everybody knew” Hillary Clinton was going to win. Oops.
Accountability This Time?
There seems to be an outside chance, this time, that the culprits who did actually interfere in the 2016 presidential election in an effort to make sure Trump could not win, and then did all in their power to sabotage him after he his electoral victory, will be held to account by unusually feisty members of the House. It is abundantly clear that members of the House Intelligence and House Judiciary Committees are now in possession of the kind of unambiguous, first-hand documentary evidence needed to get a grand jury convened and, eventually, indictments obtained.
It is no exaggeration to suggest that the Republic and the Constitution are at stake. A friend put it the way:
“When GW Bush said of the Constitution, ‘It’s just a goddam piece of paper,’ I thought it was just another toss-off bit of hyperbole as he so often would utter. Not so. He, and many in his administration (and out) sincerely believe it and set out to make it so. They may actually have succeeded.”
The Media’s Role
I almost feel sorry for what is called “mainstream media” and – even more so – for the majority of Americans deceived by the prevailing narrative on Russia-gate. Even though that narrative now lies in shreds, there is no sign so far that the pundits will fess up and admit to spreading a far-fetched, evidence-impoverished story that was full of holes from the get-go.
Even vestigially honest journalists of the old school, who may themselves have been taken in, will have a Herculean challenge if they attempt to write to right the ship of journalism. As for brainwashed Americans, pity them. It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they have been deceived, as Mark Twain once wrote.
From today’s online version of the New York Times, for example, the lede headline read, “Taunted by Trump and Pressured From Above, McCabe Steps Down as F.B.I. Deputy.”
The Times quotes Representative Adam B. Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, giving hypocrisy a bad name. Schiff said yesterday that it had been a “sad day” for the committee and that Republicans had voted “to politicize the intelligence process.”
And this just in: an op-ed from NYT pundit David Leonhardt, titled – you guessed it – “The Nunes Conspiracy.”
“Instead of evidence, the memo engages in the same dark and misleading conspiracy theories that have characterized other efforts by President Trump’s allies to discredit the Russia investigation,” Leonhardt wrote. “But the substance of the claims isn’t really the point. Distraction is the point, and the distraction campaign is having an impact.”
And so it goes.
Ray McGovern works with the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Savior in inner-city Washington. He was a CIA analyst for 27 years and co-founded Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).
Nicely done but could use some proofreading: “A friend put it the way”, “to write to right”.
A couple of days ago, CNBC ran an article saying US democracy was at stake is Americans stay socially polarized, then of course, blaming Trump for that, not cognizant that it is roughly half of Americans who support Trump, a despised half, who have guns and an ideal environment for guerilla warfare, and who are already inured to hardship. It’s a lot like the prevalent thought among the left that we can and should go in and teach Russia a lesson. Hopefully, they’ll just keep huffing and puffing and not really try to blow the house down.
A breath of fresh air from a man whose integrity is beyond reproach.
“Adam B. Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, giving hypocrisy a bad name. Schiff said yesterday that it had been a ‘sad day’ for the committee and that Republicans had voted ‘to politicize the intelligence process.'”
Wow. Give him a Nobel Prize for self-unawareness.
Has anyone here read what the Dutch intelligence service said recently? Or are they part of our deep state also?
This is crazy. If anything, the FBI helped Trump. If you trust a sycophant like Nunes, there is something seriously wrong.
Pretty doubtful. Whatta collection of hooey and most nonsensical garbage I’ve ever had the displeasure to read here. Who is this deep state and why would they wanna get rid of the orange turd that is giving that nefarious group almost if not everything they’d presumably want? The only thing missing would be the favor (like currently refusing to enforce the sanctions like a dictator) he’s showing his long-term benefactors of the Russian gov and criminal element kind.
This is a masterpiece in projection
“I almost feel sorry for what is called “mainstream media” and – even more so – for the majority of Americans deceived by the prevailing narrative on Russia-gate. Even though that narrative now lies in shreds, there is no sign so far that the pundits will fess up and admit to spreading a far-fetched, evidence-impoverished story that was full of holes from the get-go.
Even vestigially honest journalists of the old school, who may themselves have been taken in, will have a Herculean challenge if they attempt to write to right the ship of journalism. As for brainwashed Americans, pity them. It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they have been deceived, as Mark Twain once wrote.”
and that’s about it. The “narrative” that Russia officially/unofficially attempted through various means to meddle remains wholly intact and immune to hollow declarations of the sort you supplied here, and your jumping on the Nunes bandwagon suggests that that your cranial cavity is currently suffering from the same lack of intellectual heft and/or integrity as his been shown to suffer. It would be sad indeed if your legacy ended with a conversion into an Alex Jones clone…
“long-term benefactors of the Russian gov and criminal element kind”
Conspiracy Theorist!
Paragraph number 36. of the 45 goals to destroy the United States of America
Number 35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI. Judicial watch and many other organizations say the FBI has lost all credibility and is beyond repair and should be shutdown and be taken over by the DHS. For now the Republicans and the Democrats are trying to drag this out until the November 2018 election for control of the house. Both parties are waiting for a GO YOU moment.
Maybe this memo and the fallout will really “drain the swamp?” Wishful thinking, I know.
.
Why is the FBI under attack on the rare occasion when it messes with the fascistic right, rather than with the left? The left shouldn’t be objecting to the “deep state” subverting the Trump regime, but doing everything it can to encourage conflict between those ruling-class factions.
Hello Aaron, and a worthy point you make. Methinks the Hoover Org. just took their shenanigans too far this time and got caught with their pants down. Right on to you Seer, also. I am not sure if Joe Tedesky was referencing my post to “Howard” or not; if so, I do not recall the current story of an NSA advisor with papers in his pants. Are you referring to Michael Flynn? I do recall, in the mists of time, an advisor to President Clinton, name of Sandy _erger, pilfering documents on his presidency from the National Archives. Lastly, of course Ray McGovern has added much needed thoughts to the discussion of potential outcome of this current situation. Take care, all of you. Thanks.
Yes I was referring to Sandy Berger. I also commented to Howard’s post. Good stuff geeyp. Joe
Nope. Congress may sass Caligula Trump, but there is no return to the Republic or the Constitution as of 1940. Future presidents, I predict, will never give up torture, secret prisons, legal death squads. Ordinary Americans will continue to say “it won’t happen to me!” or “Only *bad* people are tortured or legally assasinated!” “That which has been is that which shall be, and there is nothing new under the sun.” – Ecclesiastes.
I first read Ray’s article several hours ago and confess I was taken aback by the wave of blowback, though I had noted some seeming leaps to judgment.
The problem is the Intelligence Services have deceived, arguably for their institutional purposes. Clapper had to offer an apology for lying to Congress and was slow to explain that the assessments that Russia’s Putin had a hand in alleged hacking of the DNC and the emails of Hillary and friends were not the unanimous findings of all 17 or so agencies but the cherry picked opinions of those chosen from only two agencies.
At the same time, there’s reason to believe that Trump administration players directly and indirectly were involved in financial dealings that, if accurately assessed as reported, suggest this administration is unfit.
It’s being reported, with regard to this evening’s geriatric performance in Congress, that Trump’s genius is to cast multifarious allegations of guilt, whether true or gratuitously unfounded, and thereby create the illusion that there is multi-sided corruption and, it appears,
possible treason, such that Trump’s not alone contemptible and so may get a get our of jail card because he’s like so many that everyone cannot be banished.
Today’s excoriation by and of Ray McGovern seem, in both instances, too glib in their critiques.
Ray seems to gratuitously assume that certain career personnel’s resignations are necessarily evidence of guilt. Without disclosing what he relies, on that is unfair and, IMO as a fan, uncharacteristic.
Everyone’s entitled to the occasional unfortunate outing. I suspect Ray may have had little rest or time to prepare when he was asked or volunteered to do another piece for his dear friend, Bob Parry, who died just Saturday.
IMO, Ray’s long history of valuable and insightful reporting, via Consortium, elsewhere, on youtube, and in his public appearances, often courageous and risky public protests, earn him a deserved and indulgent pass for this arguably too casual article.
And which was/is Clapper closets to, the FBI or the CIA?
The FBI is being set up to take the hit, not that they don’t deserve to be smacked, but it’s almost a certainty that they’re not the prime movers. So, again…
My money’s on the CIA (or the other higher-powered alphabet organization, NSA?) having started the Big Subversion with the push to “oust” Sanders from the running. Only a fool would believe that the CIA (or NSA) wouldn’t have known about the crap that was happening with the DNC. That Clapper sand-bagged it tends to show that they were almost certainly complicit in the whole thing: if they weren’t then there would have been actual facts/data put out to show Russian interference.
Sanders gets whacked by the DNC (CIA and or other high level agencies manipulate the media sphere to blank out Sanders).
DNC insiders. dissenters (was it Rich?) counter and whack Clinton, but…
TPTB (likely with FBI and or CIA assistance) attempt to re-float Clinton’s waning support by introducing the DNC insider hit as coming from Russia.
Trump gets whacked by the same folks pushing the Russia story. But, Trump is so slimy, slithery and isn’t a creature that TPTB have had to do battle with on the public political scene (at this level) that he squeaks by (with the support of a hardened supporters). It’s likely that the CIA started to back off on this, sever any collaboration it may have had with the FBI; scapegoats in the FBI will be sought to close the failing story, likely still allowing “doubt” to linger as it will help handcuff Trump.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Bob S. was from PropOrNot. When Robert Parry passed I did a search to see if other publications were honouring his passing but low and behold found truly despicable comments from PropOrNot – which was basically dancing on Mr. Parry’s grave. What truly awful human beings those lauded “experts” truly are.
Actually a few things are happening all at once, and they have been done purposely to divide and conquer the masses:
Identity politics. As Paul Craig Roberts said, the country used to be split along class lines. It was the rich fighting to keep as much money as possible versus the poor trying to get a fair shake. Identity politics was brought in to divide people: women were pitted against men, blacks and Hispanics were pitted against the “white” man, left fascists against right fascists, etc., all done to keep everyone so occupied fighting each other so they don’t turn around and denounce the real enemy – the massive inequality that has built up over the past eight years.
Russiagate. Done to prevent Trump from winning the election, and to tie his presidency in knots when he did. Aim is impeachment.
Outcome of it all: loss of free speech, threat of nuclear war, a divided country, massive inequality, shredded Constitution, and an attempt to overthrow a President.
backwardsevolution yes, the great accomplishment of the Nixon administration was, with the help of social manager Rodger Ailes, the refinement of the “wedge issue.” They successfully wedged the student anti-war movement from Labor (otherwise allies) learned from that “success” and then went on to apply the wedge many times over. Mr. Rove is an advanced expert at this technique…
A good example of the fear of the Establishment of a uniting of the youth with workers was the Summer of 1968 in Paris, when and where the Peace Talks were still arguing over the shape of the table. The “Bernie Campaign” was a reminder of the Summer of 1968 and that challenge was handled by some of the same Democratic leaders who swore to never again have a losing candidate (and platform) of 1972. The Populist Movement that supported Candidate Trump has more historical roots in our Nation as the electoral map of 2016 shows. The genius of Pres. Trump is that he learned the lessons of history, especially the success of his Hero President Andrew Jackson, but has adjusted the lessons of the Age of Jackson to the present era.
Thank you Marshall Smith for the insightful response. I’m not familiar with the Jackson Presidency so I’ll be thinking about your comment…
Wikipedia provides interesting information about Pres. Andrew Jackson. Thinking about the need for the “Right Leader” at the right time in history, our Country could have been spared so much blood and hate should a leader such as Pres. Jackson challenged the leaders among the “Southern Nationalists” conspiring for their agrarian empire independent of the emerging industrial/banking power centered in Northern Cities, especially in the Empire State. While our Country had weak presidents following Jackson, the people of the southern states were manipulated, just as they are manipulated today, often through Fear of riots and revolts. It seems that present day powers wanting a divided Nation are planning to use any means to eliminate a strong President.
Thank you for the article…
Oh, there was Russian collusion, all right. Not between Trump and Russia, but between the Clinton’s and Russia on Uranium One (coming soon to a theatre near you). Karma is a bitch, isn’t it?
Drew Hunkins – “What’s absolutely fascinating is that even though Trump’s ceded Jerusalem to the Zionist psychopaths and has saber rattled since day one towards Tehran, thus far these positions STILL have not been enough to call off the Schiff-Warner dogs.”
Drew, I see this as a war between the globalists and the non-globalists. One side wants to control the world; the other side wants to get the U.S. house in order. Totally different goals.
And, you’re right, even with all the pandering done by Trump (maybe it’s the only thing saving his butt right now?), they’re still going after him. I figure somebody has got something on that little weasel, Schiff. Nobody could be that stupid. And Lindsay Graham too.
Trump is desperately trying to get the multinational corporations to bring their money back to the U.S. and get “some” manufacturing going again. So much debt was issued under the last few presidents (especially under Obama) just to try and paper over the losses, and Trump knows this. He knows the economy is hanging by a thread, and he knows they are going to try and bring it down around his ankles, blame it all on him.
The Deep State is running scared and twisting in the wind right now. There is much more to come. These guys are going down for obstruction of justice and treason against a duly-elected President.
First indictment in the Uranium One case: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-13/doj-unseals-11-count-indictment-involving-uranium-one-scandal
A problem with the “bring back jobs” path/push is that everything is constructed on a global platform. “Bring back jobs” means bringing back robots and making imported good more expensive. There may be a touch of “win” here, but there’s a much bigger “loss.” And, actually, there really isn’t any “win” going forward in any direction/path because global growth is collapsing. The global platform has been an expansion of US imperialism, the US economic system.
Remove the factories from abroad and those countries’ consumer base will even less money to purchase US goods. Folks in the US are going to be buying their own products, when everyone is severely in debt? If you look at the CIA World Factbook the data is pretty clear: everyone who is a net energy importer has or is on the path to having a trade deficit. The US escapes this via the Petro-Dollar (pushing USD power over other currencies).
The Deep State has been scared for quite a while. It’s ALL predicated on the Petro-Dollar. The ME wars are ALL about trying to maintain this US lifeblood. This “arrangement” is faltering. The cracks really started to appear with Osama Bin Laden, with his condemnation of the US (who had been helping fund him) occupation of Saudi Arabia. One could make the argument that 9/11 was the event used by the US to slap him down: another US operative gone rogue. Had Bin Laden gained momentum he’d have likely taken down the Royal Family. Even if THIS was all but a big play it still supports the track of holding the Petro-Dollar in place. Keep in mind that the thing that all the over-thrown leaders had in common was they they were flirting with introducing currencies (gold-backed) that would challenge the Petro-Dollar’s standing.
Trump probably knows and understands little. Doesn’t matter. His mistake might be that he believes, in simplistic thinking, that something can be done and that something will upset the existing apple-cart. Well, sure, the apple-cart is all messed up anyway. But I am under no illusion that Trump has any real “solution.” Reason being is that there IS no solution to an economic system that is based on growth and gets to the point where growth is no longer possible: again, this growth-model has been globalized- there is no more there to exploit for growth. What has happened so far is that the wealthy continue to become wealthier, the MIC continues to grow, and any “MAGA” actions have done nothing for the middle and low classes in the US (and nothing but added terror for the same in many of the rest of the world). His “wall” is no more than another “construction project,” which is the only real thing he understands, and I’m afraid he’s doing it as he has done for all his construction projects- for his ego (look at what “I” built!).
Seer, thanks I always appreciate your thorough analysis, but I’m not sure that you’re right about the economics. If we were to communicate as if we were in a graduate seminar rather than a public forum, we might reach some agreement that the basic limiting factor to all economics is resources. Run out of necessary resources; and economic theory means little. In an abstract world, perhaps where Karl Marx lived (in the library) one could conceivably design an economic environment that addressed all most issues including truly valuable and scarce natural resources.
I don’t intend to divert the important discussion at hand so, so I apologize for that. Possibly we can have a discussion on anotherCN forum?
Congress is a junior partner of the Deep State. Don’t expect them to go against their Bosses. That’s not how our Mafia works. The US Mafia Oligarchy is not designed to reform itself, it’s designed not to do that, and to deal harshly with anyone who tries to correct it. But there is more than one Mafia within the whole Deep State configuration. And there is serious competition between these groupings and the leading figures within them to be the Boss of all Bosses. Deep State just refers to the leading power figures and groupings within the Global Oligarchy, which functions beyond all limits of nationality, or language, or ethnic identities. It’s membership constitutes a developing Super State whose only language and identity is power.
Congress couldn’t even face down the pharmaceutical industry without help from 60 Minutes and the Washington Post:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/10/16/a_60_minutes_and_washington_post_investigation_found_tom_marino_and_others.html
Given Israel’s enormous influence in Official Washington and over US. foreign policy, and given Hollywood’s influence over American popular culture and what passes for a public discussion, it would seem that any serious discussion of “the Deep State” would of necessity include this question: What is “the Deep State” and what is Israel’s role in it?
Clearly Israel has a role in “the Deep State” if the US Army and the FBI find it necessary to beg Hollywood producers to stop popularizing torture as an interrogation technique among US troops in wartime:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_reaction_to_24#Torture
they better have the guts or there will be new congressmen in office. this isn’t a country club for the elite. these people work for us although most seem to have forgotten that bit of information. I have a feeling they are soon going to reminded of it.
Ray McGovern,
Did you know that the CIA is part of the “DEEP STATE” when you worked for them for 27 years?! Just asking.
I find your article to be an opinion commentary, not particularly factual at all. And directly related to the increasing right wing and White House attempts to distract and derail the Special’s Council’s investigation into any possible Russia attempts to influence and/or collude with the Trump campaign and any direct association with Trump himself. Trump’s continual commentary supported by the republican led congress and Right Wing commentators seemingly directed to undermine the entire federal law enforcement of this country.
Your statements such as:1. “the cabal that conjured up Russia-gate”
2. “2. almost feel sorry for what is called “mainstream media” and – even more so – for the majority of Americans deceived by the prevailing narrative on Russia-gate. Even though that narrative now lies in shreds, there is no sign so far that the pundits will fess up and admit to spreading a far-fetched, evidence-impoverished story that was full of holes from the get-go.”
Do not make any objective sense, when the facts show that there have many contacts between Russian operatives and members of the Trump campaign. And more revealing are the facts that the campaign manager for Trump lied about his contacts with Russians, he lied about working for a foreign country(Ukraine) and was indicted by the Mueller investigation. Also Michael Flynn, who worked for Trump campaign and was made National Security Advisor, who also was indicted for lying to the FBI and who also lied on his security application aboiut Russian contacts. He has pleaded guilty
Then there is Trump’s son in-law, Kushner who lied on his security application, and also lied about Russian contacts, and was found out to, along with a Russian operative, attempting to set up a backdoor communications setup through the Russian Embassy so that communications between Trump and Russia would not have to go through monitoring by the White House State Dept.
Then there is the fact that the Attorney General, Jeff Sessions, appointed by Trump, also lied on his security application about contact with Russian operatives.
And then there is George Popodopoulos who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his connections to the Russian operatives.
But the over riding fact that Mueller has not finished his investigation and report to congress and the country yet and the very glaring fact that Trump has already stated that he wants to fire Mueller and seems to be attempting to do such a tell tale act of coverup,
Why would anybody who claims innocence be doing everything in his political playbook to undermine and stop the investigation into him. This alone Should alert everyone in this country to what is happening.
You sir, are aware of everything I have listed above, but neglected to, for purposes of your misleading article have consciously neglected to mention. ..Why is that????
My guess is that Ray does not have to rely on Rachel Maddow and Adam Schiff for his information.
Howard – the Inspector General has just handed over his 1.2 million page report to Congress. Apparently a lot of the facts are contained therein.
Howard, they haven’t found anything on Trump. As Peter Strzok said, “There’s no ‘there’ there.”
The Hunt for Red Treason is now turning and heading in the direction of the Swamp: the DNC, the Clinton’s, the Clinton Foundation, Uranium One, the FBI, CIA, and the Department of Justice.
Man, the CIA trolls are out in force tonight. “Must care to support our narrative…”Must care to support our narrative…” “Herman”, it has continuously occurred to smart, informed people that incoming administrations traditionally meet with other countries’ counterparts prior to entering office. This is how it’s done. Make sense, doesn’t it? Think for a moment, please. And also, Mueller is a crook and has no right to judge anyone and is not needed when there is no there, there. There . is no Russian influence in our election of 2016. If you really want news and information, watch rt.com and avoid our countries’ mainstream news channels and npr. I do not know your age so trust me on this one. Otherwise, just keep getting fed lies and propaganda from the Adam Schiff type people who have infiltated our news system. Though if you are CIA, you already know how that works, don’t you? Sure, Mr. Lee Oswald shot at President Kennedy. Such crap, just like you wrote here. Good luck.
Bang-on!
My money’s on this all being under the control of the CIA. I firmly believe that they started it all by teaming up to derail Sanders’ campaign: no, I was not a supporter of Sanders (nor any of the candidates): no money, votes or agitation applied by myself toward/against ANY of them. See my posting at the top of this comment section.
You make a strong arguement, but if we use past White House appointees and their noncompliance then how about a Treasury Secretary owning $25k in taxes, or a NSA adviser found with Secret Documents stuffed down inside his underwear? Granted Manafort, Flynn, and Kushner, should have been called out on their infractions, but then who exactly were these Trumper’s colluding with? Well when Israel comes a calling, well then collusion’s okay, just don’t talk about it.
This new twist of FBI collusion sounds most interesting if we start with Admiral Mike Rogers who had audited these reports early on in the summer of 2016. I learned this from a Joe Degenova in a interview where he went step by step to the findings that the House Committee had found….how DeGenova got this I’m not sure, but I’m willing to let investigations take their course, but at least let’s get the facts on the table, and see if any laws were broke. I also don’t have a bone to pick with Joe DeGenova, but when I saw him I started seeing the attack dogs come out from both sides suddenly, and thought ‘oh no’.
This whole fiasco of FISA manipulation, Russian interferences, is in the end going to get settled quietly then it will disappear. No doubt Russia will still be bad, but Trump will be allowed to get off the hook over Russia Manchurian blackmail charges, and hardly anyone at the FBI will suffer much, and the rest of us Americans will be that much dumbfounded and pissed and then we will all forget about it.
I also thought Ray McGovern was saying the same thing, and that was MSM Politics is now taking it over completely. Joe
Thanks Joe, here is the link to that interview…
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-21/brazen-plot-exonerate-hillary-clinton-and-frame-trump-unraveling-says-former-fed
We can all agree that Trump had contacts with some Russians. Trump also had contacts with Israelis and most likely with people who are citizens of other countries. Does this mean that Israel and those other countries also interfered with the 2016 election?
With all your examples of contacts, you have not specified exactly what anyone Russian did, let alone the Russian government, to influence the election in Trump’s favor. Nor has anyone else.
I believe eventually there will be a day of reckoning. That old saying holds true: “When thieves fall out,” and that day is surely coming. The memo, if published could start an internal war. Then justice might prevail for the american people and the suffering Millions around the world.
Millions
Millions are dead, others are still alive
Millions of people are just trying to survive
Millions are refugees wandering the earth
Most have nothing left, of any real worth
Once they had homes and some had businesses too
Then there arrived, the warring hellish crews
They bombed and blitzed a number of countries
Will they ever pay for their evil obscenities?
So called “leaders” of the “democratic” west
“The dogs of war,” that think they know best
War criminals that planned hell and destruction
Blood soaked villains oozing satisfaction
Proud of their crimes of “bringing democracy”
A hellish sight is their unctuous hypocrisy
Their partners in war crimes are the monetary villains
Who financed and paid for the missiles from the “heavens”
The assassins in the sky are just obeying orders
Is the madness of militarism definitely a disorder?
Conditioned to obey their be-medaled “superiors”
No matter that the motives are bloody ulterior
Countries destroyed and reduced to smoking rubble
The plotters and planners caused all this hellish trouble
The peoples of Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and other countries too
Are the suffering and dead victims of this evil hellish crew
So say a prayer for the once “human race”
Where so-called leaders are a monstrous bloody disgrace
Where hell on earth is plotted and planned
And death and destruction covers the desert sand
The treachery of the “leaders” of “democratic” nations
Are funding and helping both sides in the conflagrations
Treason is permitted and practiced in broad daylight
Taxpayers and head choppers finance the dirty fight
This is “justice” and the so-called “rule of law”?
When well dressed war criminals are “men of straw”
Their crimes have cost society in monetary; trillions
But, worst of all, they are responsible for the deaths of untold million…
[More info at link below]
http://graysinfo.blogspot.ca/2016/10/millions.html
No they wont. Today conveninetly a “new” dossier has been conjured up to replace the discredited Steele document. Full steam ahead for the Deep State, and its twin enablers in the US legislature and global media
The only way drumpf “won” the election was to highjack election returns in several states; the most obvious one being Wisconsin. It has been documented a number of ways that votes were “lost” or not counted. Voters were either denied their right to vote based on bogus questions of identification that flew in the face of the election law and the Wisconsin State Constitution. Only occasionally has the media–including you–touched on these denials of basic rights.When your stable of reporters submits stories about the suffering of the Palestinians couched in thinly veiled anti-Semitic terms and denying the existence or effects of Russiagate–and you publish them–that proves to readers like me that you have been tricked into taking your eye off the real ball, just like the mainstream media.
So…Had Clinton won, everything would have just been fine and dandy…?
“So…Had Clinton won, everything would have just been fine and dandy…?”
You actually read that in what he wrote? Figures, given the critical reading skills on display here.
But his conclusion is correct- your circle jerk spends thread after thread railing about the “DEEP STATE!” while right-wing authoritarians who have and would deny the right to vote to millions of Americans control three branches of the federal government- in plain sight.
But….”DEEP STATE!”.
Troll alert: do not reply to the above comment.
Surely you know that’s just an invitation to him to jump in the slime pit with you.
By the way, Nat Perry, maybe you could ask Peter Dale Scott to write a column about the echo chamber that has adopted “DEEP STATE!” as it’s mantra.
Troll alert: do not reply to the above comment.
You need to learn how to nest your comment, moron- that way you won’t be replying to my comment.
Then try to understand ‘irony’.
wannabe troll alert…do not reply to the BobS comment
Seth: See my reply to Herman’s posting, please. Thank you.
Sorry, I meant Herman’s posting.
Howard’s posting! There.
the passengers and crew of the titanic are in shallow debate about the status of the captain and whether he and his backers lied about how many gay latino jews were staffing the rec room..that’s about what this amounts to in the larger picture of what is really happening to a state in deep deep do-do with a population not only sinking under personal debt of more than a trillion and public debt many times greater but threatening the race and the planet with any continuity of a political economic system we were warned about at its inception and which spends hundreds of billions on war and pets while many of its people live in the street ..the ceo and his opponents are a national problem but what the corporation does, no matter who the ceo or its opponents are, is an infinitely greater problem for the race. thanks to ray mcgovern who approaches genius compared to the schmuck who swallows and digests even more corporate consciousness control slop than anyone should, be we need radical change of the system, not just its staff, of private capitalist control of something called market forces which guarantee private profits only be inflicting ever more dreadful loss on the public.
The broad strokes of this story – that government insiders used unverified “opposition research” to obtain permission to spy on members of the Trump team using the formidable reach of the USA’s surveillance networks – has been circulating since December. The legacy mainstream media – NY Times, Washington Post, CNN, NBC, etc – have alternately ignored the story, mis-reported issues associated with the story, or actively assisted in creating a defence for this activity (i.e.Papadopoulos’ alleged drunken admissions to an Australian diplomat or the recent claim that Dutch intelligence had infiltrated Russian hackers). These media outlets have been extremely partisan in exploiting the rather thin-gruelled Russiagate allegations, but I’m not sure they will be able to spin their culpability away in this case. The purveyors of Russiagate – deep state players, key Democrats, mainstream media – apparently never paused to consider the consequences to their reputations if and when the full story bubbled to the surface.
If the memo is just evidence free conspiracy theories. The dems would want it released. So that they could rip it to shreds with real evidence. And make the Repubs look like fools. But they don’t have any evidence. Just like the evidence they didn’t have for their Russia hacking claims. If the Repubs release this to the public that’ll make coverup nearly impossible. I bet heads are gonna roll, the Repubs are gonna drive it home. Hillary losing kind of messed things up. And the “Russia ate my homework and if you don’t believe it you’re a Putin lover” crap didn’t fix it.
Keep those cards and letters comin’ in, Ray! Make sure you all have a once-over on the text. You know the “system” will distort every typo to diffuse the message. Truth, we’re comin’ home at long last!!!
Ray, please flip it over and say exactly what you think IS going on. Lost in nuances and Mighty Wurlitzer.
I am having a trouble wrapping my head around the whole thing. On one hand, FBI-gate (setting up traps for Trumps) seems reasonable. On the other hand, are we supposed to take Nunes seriously? Has Nunes been reading Consortiumnews.com?
Yes, I would take Nunes “seriously” regardless of the public sources of his education. Do not forget the limited briefings given to Congress by the intelligence community concerning their operations. Since Chairman Nunes was one of the 8 members of both Houses of Congress knowledgeable of operations such as the selection of “rebel leaders” in Syria as well as the selection of the heir to the throne in Saudi Arabia, which John Brennan and his friends of the Brookings Institute were unable to control. Just perhaps, Nunes has some insight into why Brennan and friends hate Pres. Trump for his support for the rival to the former Crown Prince they so loved and trained for so many years!
Just a footnote: – It sure seems to me that Snowden is about to be vindicated in the most profound manner — i.e., as a savant, as a luminary, and as a visionary, even — now that the surveillance state is about to explode up the arseholes of all the many arseholes who engendered and facilitated just such a state of affairs, whether or not utilizing FISA warrants, during the past decade. And all credit to Bill Binney, Tom Drake, Ray McGovern, and a few others too, all of them good Americans. — P.S. While I’m at it, let’s not forget Assange, who oughta be awarded honorary US citizenship (though I can quite understand and appreciate why he’d want to decline any such offer).
And let’s not forget Kim Dotcom, too, who should also be awarded honorary US citizenship as some kinda wretched compensation for all that the piratical USA has illicitly and flagrantly stolen from him.
As I recall, Kim Dotcom is an internet copyright pirate, hiding behind the mask of “freedom” for pirates.
He did not get rich by doing valuable services, but by stealing the income of others.
I would not be deceived by his claims to advocate internet freedoms.
Sorry, but I fear that, as an unexceptional lesser-being (aka non-US citizen) dwelling overseas (in Asia Minor, as it happens), it is becoming increasingly impossible to engage in any serious & informed discussion & debate with so very many Americans, so polluted and poisoned are they by government and media misinformation and disinformation. If Kim Dotcom interests you enough, go google a host of stories on him @ the New Zealand Herald; go to YouTube and watch a whole bunch of videos; and go check out the twitter account @KimDotcom. You will find that, to curry favor > $s with the Hollywood copyright cartel, Obama and Biden instigated the persecution and prosecution of Kim Dotcom in NZ by the NSA and FBI [sic!!!] on the flimsiest — and I mean the most despicably spurious — of grounds. And it even looks like this might now come back to haunt them — also the NZ government itself. Btw, Kim Dotcom was an early benefactor of Wikileaks in very significant measure. Not philanthropic enough for you?
Geoffrey, I am not one of those misinformed persons; I know the copyright piracy business and litigation very well as a victim and litigant.
1. An entire generation of writers and artists are impoverished because their work is stolen by pirates. They can sell nothing because everything is available for free within days of its release, from pirates who are more numerous than legitimate outlets. Do they deserve to starve so that pirates can live in luxury?
2. You are right that there is a “Hollywood copyright cartel” but it is prominent only because almost none of the hundreds of thousands of victims of copyright theft has the money or legal knowledge to fight back.
3. The US judiciary is complicit in the copyright thefts, denying investigative resources and even unsealing secret documents to notify pirates before the FBI, HSI, and IRS can get the evidence.
4. Google is directly involved, refusing to take down the piracy websites they host, and even hiring convicted pirates into their “Google Books” program to be shielded by crooked lawyers.
While there may be a better side to Kim Dotcom, the truth is that his money comes from piracy. While there may be a cartel among the victims, the vast majority are individual victims or small publishers. We must ask ourselves why we would support theft from the poor artist to benefit the rich pirate? And why would we accept excuses from the pirate that he occasionally gives some money to a good cause? More would have come from the artists.
Reply #2 to Sam F. coz no “Reply” option here on your last posting. Thanks so much for your comments and open-mindedness. All I can say is, do do some follow-up research and scholarship on Kim Dotcom, as he is by no means the piratical parasite you depict him as being. Indeed, he has devised a whole scheme to reimburse copyright holders direct while by-passing Hollywood and the iniquitous US government. All the very best to you!
Hopefully you’re right, Geoffrey. It would be wonderful to see this.
I love McGovern’s posts. He never gives up on the truth (or by extension, on us). Some would say he’s foolishly tilting at deep state windmills, but I think the better view is that he is helping to keep very real dragons from devouring us all.
He asks us to pity brainwashed Americans when it would be so tempting to despise them along with their deceivers: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
His last line, “And so it goes”, oozes anguish and despair at human folly. Ray, an ex-CIA analyst, is no Don Quijote, but rather a hard-headed realist who knows that the odds of saving our republic from the onslaught of neocon imperialism are long and getting longer by the minute. He also knows how high the price of losing will be in terms of human lives and suffering.
“…rather a hard-headed realist”
McGovern’s heart is probably in the right place, but his critical thinking skills are a little on the flabby side.
BobS, can you elaborate? I didn’t see any factual errors or faulty reasoning. Please educate me.
A curse on you, troll, to be speaking ill of the recently departed. Go away.
Ray McGovern may be upset to hear of his death.
Moron.
go sit by your dish….pup
BobS…. Whoa! This is too dark. Are you threatening Ray McGovern? You’ve gotta get a grip. You’re not seeing who’s really hurting our country. Please, please open your eyes.
Is lack of critical reading skills required to join your circle jerk?
“RnM
January 30, 2018 at 3:40 pm
A curse on you, troll, to be speaking ill of the recently departed. Go away.”
The stellar RnM obviously confused Ray McGovern for Robert Parry (and thought Robert Parry was making posts from the great beyond to boot).
And you obviously lost the narrative as well.
“You’re not seeing who’s really hurting our country.”
The stupid featured in these comment threads?
Bob S, I take it you have not been privy to the texts between the FBI lovers Peter and Lisa. Apparently Christopher Wrey read the memo yesterday and then talked with Andy McCabe, and then Andy stepped down. Looks like Wrey thought there was something to the memo, as did Andy if he willingly stepped down.
Virginia, given the ‘insight’ demonstrated in your other comments, I’m comforted that my “take” on things is not exactly as yours.
BobS, you are a disgrace regardless of any knowledge or beliefs you may have.
Certainly you have nothing to be proud of, let alone disdainful about.
I suggest that we post one “Troll Alert: do not reply to the above comment.” after his comments.
Mom?
Is that you?
Who pays you for this claptrap?
Virginia, I don’t know what’s happened to Warner. Once upon a time, he was a relatively stand up kinda politician, but not any more. Since he entered the Senate, he’s morphed into someone who appears to be owned rather than the independent minded Governor I knew and came to respect. It’s a shame, really, this country could really use some statesman from both sides of the aisle, but all I see are those handful of leaders in the House and one or two in the Senate willing to, you know, represent us rather than the Party and their donors.
Ray, you left out Senator Grassley and his committee’s work in this ‘caper’. Grassley, Nunes and Goodlatte are the one’s to watch. It is their three committee’s – Senate Judiciary, House Intel, House Judiciary – driving this school bus and it appears they are readying to put that puppy in third gear.
To Nat and the Consortium News Team, my deepest condolences to all. Nat, your dad was a solid ‘just the facts ma’am’ journalist. I found this site back in 2000ish when I first delved into the 9/11 tragedy. I’ve never left and rarely post. I do link to your work here several times a week over at my alt news aggregation site and have been for awhile now. Your’s and your dad’s work have served as models for so many up and coming alt news journalists. You have so much to be proud of. Trust, we regulars will continue to support your work well into the future. Prayers and Blessings to all of the Parry family.
Thanks, Helen. Yes indeedy, our Congress and Senate members become deep state the moment they are in, except for a very few. The strong and true are to their country and their profession as Robert Parry was to his. So thankful for their heroic examples, and for the brave souls here at CN.
This is one of the more extraordinary imbroglios I’ve witnessed in my 30 years of following the politico-economic scene.
What we have brewing here is a battle between otherwise execrable creatures of the ruling class: the Sean Hannity-Pat Buchanan, et. al. wing of the GOP (which on this PARTICULAR issue happens to be on the righteous side) versus the Zionist-militarist neoliberal imperialist wing of the ruling class which is currently composed of the Schiffs, Warners, DNC, national security state and most of the mass media across the spectrum. (Yes, my quick outline of the two opposing sides is a bit slapdash and doesn’t take into account all the players and factions, but you get the picture.)
The latter crew want to torpedo Trump because they view him as not enough of a hawk towards the Kremlin, this threatens their careers and budgets. They were genuinely terrified and dismayed when Trump voiced some non-interventionist rhetoric on the campaign trail. They also need to delegitimize the Trump presidency because it’s an embarrassment and refutation to the DNC which ran a horrific Wall Street boot-licking, warmongering candidate. These are dangerous cretins because they’re smart, smooth and articulate and are better propagandists than the above referenced former wing. They show no compunction over putting the world on the brink of nuclear war in order to carry out their anti-Trump vendetta. They attack him for the one thing he gets right (easing tensions with Moscow) rather than denouncing him for the truly awful Trump policies, namely his dangerous rhetoric towards Iran, his genuflecting to Israel, and his regressive tax policies, to name a few.
What’s absolutely fascinating is that even though Trump’s ceded Jerusalem to the Zionist psychopaths and has saber rattled since day one towards Tehran, thus far these positions STILL have not been enough to call off the Schiff-Warner dogs. The DNC and elements of the national security-mass media-state may have dug themselves such a deep whole by propagating this whole Russia-gate canard over the last 14 months that they’re now in a difficult spot with little chance of saving face and must faithfully proceed into their own eventual humiliation.
Meanwhile the American domestic population is stalked by the specter of massive inequality, un and under employment, repugnant wages doled out essentially by the malicious local Chamber of Commerce, drug addiction, a dental healtcare crises, hopelessness, and political impotence. And meanwhile, the struggling white male is being vilified as a serial oppressor by many upper middle class professional women who can’t see past identity politics and spent more money ni one year on tuition at a private university than many of these exploited white males make in two-year’s salary.
“…the Sean Hannity-Pat Buchanan, et. al. wing of the GOP (which on this PARTICULAR issue happens to be on the righteous side) versus the Zionist-militarist neoliberal imperialist wing of the ruling class…”
Trump, Pence, Kushner, Miller, Adelson, Kelly, Haley, Bolton, Coats, Pompeo, Mnuchin, Chao, Mattis, Pai…nope none of the “Zionist-miltarist neoliberal imperialist wing of the ruling class” in this bunch.
I do acknowledge that there is overlap. But the crucial point is that Putin bashing and anti-Kremlin hysteria rule the day in the latter camp. The former camp, for all their faults, tend to support a candidate for the wrong reasons but have seen through the Russiagate baloney.
“overlap”?
“Zionist-militarist neoliberal imperialist wing of the ruling class” is the f***ing definition of the Trump administration.
“Russiagate baloney”
That you can label it “baloney” without knowing anything about Trump’s finances makes you the just the kind of mark that Trump’s been grifting his entire life.
Or the Clinton’s finances or the DNC’s relationship with Ukraine….
“Or the Clinton’s finances or the DNC’s relationship with Ukraine….”
Ahhhh, ‘whataboutism’.
How do you say ‘hasbara’ in Russian?
Yeah, right pal, I’m a Trump mark, a Trump mark who voted for Jill Stein and calls out Trump in every forum I can to point out his actual outrageous policies. Try again.
Trump isn’t militaristic enough — evidenced by his initial attempts of rapprochement with Moscow — for a certain faction of our neoliberal inmperialist ruling class.
If you can’t understand that there’s absolutely no credible evidence whatsoever pointing towards the Kremlin hacking the election to tip it to Trump you’re a lost cause, drinking MSNDC’s kool-aid and listening with rapt attention at every word coming out of Schiff-Warner’s disgraceful mouths.
You seem to think you know a lot about the Mueller investigation and what it has/hasn’t uncovered with respect to collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.
Similarly, “if you can’t understand” that Trump’s zealous protection of his financial records is not a principled stand for privacy, you’re just the kind of simpleton that Trump spent 5 decades preying upon. However, bragging that you “voted for Jill Stein” does suggest you’re that type of simpleton that believes in unicorns.
Of course, US presidential elections are all about you feeling good about yourself.
lol…do you havta make X many pointless personal attacks here for propornot to cut you a check?….
what a miserable little boy you are, with nothing intelligent to say…
whatsa matter? your gramma refuse to pay for your WoW account this month? poor thing…
Troll alert: do not reply to the BobS comment.
Distraction alert!
BobS…Amen, m’ man!
Erase my last remark…. The progression of this conversation is out of whack for me. Bottom line: “Release the memos!” The public deserves the truth. I think we’ll find the Demos have had very poor leadership from Zionist-leaning (money-wonks) advisors (operatives), and the country is getting screwed!
Troll alert: do not reply to the BobS comment.
Good take of the current reality, in broad outlines, Drew. Illustrates the point that there are no real friends in the political arena, just allies with fleeting common interests.
Well said.
About a week ago Realist and I surmised so much, that this FBI FISA fiasco would end up as just another left vs right divide.
See how Oliver Stone is defending Robert Parry’s good name up against PropOrNot.
https://www.rt.com/usa/417383-oliver-stone-tributes-parry/
Ooops, Mike, you meant the way the DNC changed the dialogue away from the content — the substance — of the Hillary-Posesta emails to “Russia hacking the DNC and giving their emails to wikileaks.” Yea, you meant that, right? Of course, neither the Dems nor Reps (nor Trump) have a monopoly on lying, but there are degrees, and degrees of damages.
This reply was to Mike’s post above of Jan 30, 2018 at 12:23 pm, but it landed here. I can’t reposition it myself, but it’s in the wrong place.
Thank you, Joe, for the Oliver Stone reference.
My input is really acting up, so we’ll have to see where this post shows up! Anyone else having trouble?
Not a problem Virginia. Joe
Wow. Thank you Joe. And additional thanks to Oliver Stone. That was a particularly viscous attack against Robert Parry, untrue and insensitive. It underscores the depth of the battle we’re in…
Bob I had to post this, so as people on ‘the Consortium’ could see to just how ignorant Mr Parry’s opposition was. I also rose out of my chair seeing our beloved Oliver Stone stand up to defend his friend Robert Parry’s honor. In life Robert Parry forgot more than those Twitter crazed PropOrNot trolls could have ever learned, and then at the time of Bob’s death these fake news creeps ridicule him for his honest reporting. These lying people are the enemy, and kudos once again to the truth teller Oliver Stone. Joe
Yes, Joe, it is disgusting how they insist on demonizing a good man only days after his death. I am depressed. Oliver Stones’ defense of this exemplary human being in the RT piece is greatly appreciated. I’m sure he will become a bigger target himself now.
Why are most of the highest profile combatants on both sides of the issues in this clash of cultures throwbacks to the 1960’s? Mostly guys in their 70’s and late 60’s. When will the younger generations, who represent the deep future, stand up and be counted? Right now the most likely president as of January 20th, 2021, will be from among Trump, Clinton, Biden, Kerry or Bernie Sanders, if you believe the media, everyone of whom will be in their mid-to-late 70’s.
Younger readers here, I’m not talking about you. But, if you can, get involved in the political process to replace these dinosaurs. I’ll be hanging with the pterodactyls myself by then, since I’m in the same cohort.
My guess to why you see the same old, same old, old guys running with the show all the time, is because they all got something to hide, and so do their monkeys. It’s for this reason I do wish, like you, that some new blood may enter the scene. In fact, I just got done watching and listening to young Joe Kennedy III give a rebuttal State of the Union, perfect not really, Kennedyesque most definitely, but young most certainly. So just like when we were young we can only hope that someone such as young Joe will turn out to be the real deal. BTW who did we get? Bill, W, Obama, Hillary, ????
We need to continue our support of Oliver Stone, and especially when the genius director stands up to defend our beloved journalistic hero Robert Parry. Wow, just had a brain storm to make a movie dedicated to hardworking knock down truth telling journalist, and use Robert Parry’s career as the topic centerpiece.
I do have adult children, and the grandchildren are politically active. My one granddaughter was one of those rally members who stood behind Bernie Sanders, and my lovely cute granddaughter couldn’t stop yawning…she’s still cute even when she’s yawning. One of my oldest daughters was the renegade, as she once worked for ‘Turd-Blossom’ himself, but she has reformed and now works with schools, and she loves helping with stray battered animals. I try when engaging with these youth of mine, to keep it edgy and provocative in order to make them think real hard. Example, when one of them starts talking MSM talking points on Russia, I ask them, ‘and how many Russians do you know’? It freaks them out, and then the kids blame their Russia bashing on their schools history teacher…they love to be on Pappy’s side.
Realist always good my man, take care. Joe
Joe and Realist, I think you’re right but my take about the concentration of us in our late sixties and seventies is, the experience of War. There is nothing like that experience of mass killing and its associated injustice, the loss of the sense of common humanity, which ultimately convinces an individual involved that no ideology is worth that kind of sacrifice. I first grasped this concept by reading “War And Peace,” that somewhere in the middle of the chaos of battle, all is lost. Thus it is, that the survivors try desperately to pass along the message of the futility of War to the unsuspecting new generation but rarely is it successful. That is why Oliver Stone and the story of The Liberty is so significant. Oliver is a personal witness and you and I, Joe were close enough to be a witness. This insight is also the reason that the Neocons are, for us, so nefarious, because they lack experience thus are, Chickenhawks.
It is the same distinction that I think made President Kennedy exceptional; that he was a survivor, he cared for his men, he helped save them in the middle of chaos. No person can be the same after that experience.
Yes Bob you are right, our generation was profoundly affected by the Vietnam war, and you no doubt are pointing to that unneeded episode as the reason for us older people being so against war. Whereas younger people, who are not threatened by a Draft will concentrate more on what they feel affects them most, like identity politics or something other than war.
I’m not sure to what the bulk of any demographic would show to support, if all of the darn polls weren’t so seemingly appeared to be rigged. With that, I do wonder to where our younger generation is heading, as I have no idea to what the older folk may be really thinking.
I’m not sure to how peace and prosperity will come about, but one thing is for sure, is that it can’t come any time too soon for the better. Joe
Thanks, Bob. Beautiful post, and, unfortunately, heartbreaking.
Thanks Joe, I have some very positive thoughts about the future but we have to get through this first…
Are the Dutch part of the ‘Deep State’?
https://www.volkskrant.nl/tech/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/
I would say most definitely, as is the case in Germany, and many western European countries. Just look at how they mis-handled the MH-17 investigation. The CIA is deeply embedded in the MSM in the USA and Europe, and has been since after WWII. Look into “Operation Mockingbird” if you are curious.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cia-and-the-media-50-facts-the-world-needs-to-know/5471956
Of course, Operation Mockingbird overlapped Ray McGovern’s tenure in the CIA.
BobS really, what next are you going to blame Ray for the Kennedy murders? Seriously dude, slow down with the insults. On the other hand without insults, you wouldn’t be BobS. Although I’d like for you to take it easy on Mr McGovern. Joe
BobS is a really sad case Joe…just a bitter, petty ball of hate…probably from the realization that he has no manners or skills…and probably cant get a job anywhere but at ProporNot…
regards
D
So you can vouch for every minute of Ray McGovern’s 30 years in the (“DEEP STATE!”) CIA?
You’re the guy that has his driveway ‘re-asphalted’ with black paint, aren’t you?
Yeah Bob, we used 3,056 cans of spray paint to do it, pretty smart huh? Joe
Troll alert: do not reply to the BobS comment.
Ray was an analyst, and not in operations.
Hardly “the Dutch” as a whole. Not even necessarily the Durch secret services as a whole. But, after all, that report was not even about an official statement from the Dutch secret services, it was just a leak from unnamed sources within the Dutch secret services (if even that attribution is correct). The US deep state certainly has close allies within the secret services of European NATO countries. They probably have the tightest connections with secret services of Anglosaxon countries like Britain and Australia and with Germany, where US secret services have their many bases in Europe, but there are certainly also close connections with the deep state in the Netherlands.
Yes. Of course I wasn’t referring to the Dutch people. Their government, and their MSM, however do carry water for the US Deep State. Also like you say, the secret services are not monolithic. They are highly compartmentalized. Ray McGovern is a former analyst for the CIA, and he is obviously a highly moral person. VIPS was founded by people who have witnessed the corruption of the intelligence agencies firsthand, and have organized to expose and fight that corruption.
This is a new comment. My previous commented was not published.
A tenet of the mendacious style of political discourse today is to never, ever admit you were wrong about anything. If you are caught in a pack of lies you have committed, deny everything, and change the subject as soon as possible. Trump is a master of this technique, he is a natural born liar. Like petulant four year olds, congress critters really feel that they are never wrong, and their opponents always are. This is why their is no real dialog in these venues, nobody listens, everyone just relentlessly pushes their own agenda, no matter what. Taking responsibility for one’s actions is for suckers and losers. Respect for the truth is totally absent in DC. There should be a sign outside Washington, “Entering Truth Free Zone.”
“…everyone just relentlessly pushes their own agenda, no matter what.”
Not unlike the circle-jerk the comment section here quickly devolves to.
Not that Ray McGovern’s disingenuous remarks need any help.
Somebody is projecting…
lol….too true….he is just some WoW trade trash noob…
Troll alert: do not reply to the BobS comment.
Hey Ray, how do you say ‘hasbara’ in Russian?
Silly troll question.
Interesting that BobS would choose the term “hasbara”, a specific Israeli term for propaganda. BobS may work in a hasbara office. A typical hasbara tactic – spend as little energy as possible saying as little as possible to deflect discussion into the maximum wasted side trips.
Bob S
I have always enjoyed the thoughtful commentary at Consortium News because it was devoid of trolls. Sad to see the infiltation.
That’s not quite true Linda, there have been a few and they do pop up every now and again. They are a pain in the a**!
The purpose of a troll is not to enlighten or provoke thought; it is to distract the discussion.
That would be “???????” – [khasbara], with a loud “r”. Though you will hardly ever see or hear this word in russian speech – media or other, it is not used. Used in ukranian though.
It is good that you are working to expand your knowledge horizons. Keep it up my friend!
It is probably a very good idea to take a hard look at the Nunes memo, and then an even harder look at the evidence that supports it.
Right now there is so much hype on both sides of this that we tend to get caught up at treating speculation and charges as facts.
I do think Russia-gate is an over-hyped political campaign. The threat from Russia to our electoral process is like a cult, in which belief is paramount to rational thinking. Evidence. Let’s see the evidence for all these things.
I do not trust the narratives coming out of both camps. They stink of propaganda and spin.
No. The weight of evidence is on the side of the debunkers of Russiagate. This “debate” is far from a wash, or a draw. The propaganda and spin are from the Russia blamers, not their refuters.
I might have agreed with you had Nunes not also fired at Rosenstein in the memo, or so has been alleged.
Even the shining light of the Dems, Bernie Sanders is constantly pro-war and anti-Russia, even now in his comments after the SOTU.
A tenet of the mendacious style of political discourse today is to never, ever admit you were wrong about anything. If you are caught in a pack of lies you have committed, deny everything, and change the subject as soon as possible. Trump is a master of this technique, he is a natural born liar. Like petulant four year olds, congress critters really feel that they are never wrong, and their opponents always are. This is why their is no real dialog in these venues, nobody listens, everyone just relentlessly pushes their own agenda, no matter what. Taking responsibility for one’s actions is for suckers and losers. Respect for the truth is totally absent in DC. There should be a sign outside Washington, “Entering Truth Free Zone.”
Talking about the spin the New York Times is putting on the memo contents (The Nunes Conspiracy), please take a look at last night’s PBS News Hour. Instead of what Judy Woodruff and Lisa Desjardins should have reported, they spun Andrew McCabe’s “stepping aside” as yet another loss of an important high ranking FBI official causing still more vacancies in the many still unfilled offices due to Trump’s failure to appoint people, etc. It was unbelievable! Then Judy interviewed Mark Warner, and his spin was even more astounding — that most Democrats hadn’t read it, implying it was unavailable; also implying that this “memo creation” hadn’t gone through proper channels. Nothing on the up and up with Warner! But, I don’t think they are going to be able to get by with it. Will the American people agree to be duped by propaganda when the facts are on the table? I’m not seeing that friends of mine are coming around, but … do they really believe in Santa Claus? Is there integrity in the land, or will truth continue to be trampled in the streets and sold in the shambles? The house of cards is about to crumble, or will it?
It’s painful to say, but the PBS Newshour is a pathetically blatant propaganda outlet. I suspect Judy Woodruff, Mark Shields, etc have nights of troubled sleep.
Regarding Congressman Nunes,
“The current chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Devin Nunes, R- California, is one of the few politicians who knows and cares about the attack on the Liberty.”
from “Still Waiting for USS Liberty’s Truth” by Ray McGovern
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/04/still-waiting-for-uss-libertys-truth/
This is the biggest political story of the past 50 years. The level of corruption is beyond comprehension and once the entire story is unraveled and put on display, not much will be left standing.
I agree, this is the point where this event either gets thoroughly exposed or hidden. It truly is the biggest political story of a generation. We’ll see…
I also agree. The threads run deep on this one. And I’m very interested to hear Ray’s informed take on these developments, both the hopes and the challenges.
“Even vestigially honest journalists of the old school, who may themselves have been taken in, will have a Herculean challenge if they attempt to write to right the ship of journalism.”
No look of America’s journalism would be complete without a nod to the blanket omission of all negative news regarding Israel’s actions and goals. The odds of such a total omission over many decades rival the odds of all roulette wheels in the universe coming up the same at the same time. Its astronomically improbable. So it was obviously rigged.
An excellent look at Israel suppressing American news is in this documentary about Israel’s attack on the USS Liberty, and its cover-up. Many participants testify.
“The Day Israel Attacked America”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RE4hMlB9ZU
And for readers who may not have seen it, a succinct history of how Israel took control of the US press and government is in
“War Profiteers and the Roots of the War on Terror”
http://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com
Why stop at 50 years?
Fascism enthusiast Sebastian Gorka thinks it’s “100 times bigger” than the abuses of power that led to the American Revolution.
Troll alert: do not reply to the above comment.
Once again Mr. McGovern is right on target, the importance his analysis, cannot be overstated. At stake is not just the future of the nation as a constitutional republic, but the future of peace as well.The two-year-long push by the combined British and U.S. intelligence agencies to destroy Trump’s candidacy and presidency has drawn in most of the Democratic Party, abandoning all principles in favor of near-sighted political expediency. Likewise the neocons of the Republican Party, who detest Trump’s friendliness toward Russia and China, have shown their displeasure at the persistence of Mr.Nunes by siding against release of the memo. As in the original “Russian hacking” fraud, cite “national security” concerns. What is most important is that this criminal coup operation be defeated, lest it leave the United States a New Cold War police state in which all presidents are controlled by intelligence officials with secret scandals. This Nunes memo and related investigations offer hope and opportunity for its defeat, but if not crushed, these new McCarthyites will settle for nothing less than a fiercely anti-Russia, anti-China President Pence. And we know to where that will lead.
Good comment. I agree completely.
Good points. “Follow the money” implies “Who can afford to buy the British and American intelligence agencies?” And let’s not forget how effectively the Israelis buried the news about their attack on the USS Liberty, shutting down an official US Navy investigation and keeping it out of the news all these years. And not forget Hillary’s campaign being primarily financed by war-mongering Israelis. Nor the war-mongering Neocons being in essence Israeli agents. Let’s not leave those out.
I highly doubt that. Iran-Contra and Bush lying us into war immediately come to mind as being greater. So, too, does everything that led to Bush v Gore 2000.
Taking down the gang that did those crimes would be greater.
The entire story will NEVER be unraveled and put on display.
The US is in effect a totalitarian fascist state. There are various factions within the shadow government and deep state competing with each other for power, but they are united in their goals of maximum profit, complete information control, and absolute power.
Just look at all the intelligence materials recently “lost” by the NSA, CIA, and FBI including the Warren Commission folder on Oswald that was due for public release.
“…reportedly based on documentary evidence of possible crimes…”
More wiggle words, please.
“..despite the widespread guilt suggested by the abrupt way that several senior-echelon DOJ and FBI rats have already jumped ship. Not to mention the manner in which FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, was unceremoniously pushed overboard yesterday…”
You really believe the stuff you write?
“…unambiguous, first-hand documentary evidence…” = 4 page synopsis prepared by politically motivated Republican staffers.
I hope you had higher standards when you were a CIA analyst.
Wow, a deep state troll….
He’s been around for a while. Don’t feed him
Yes, Skip, you are correct- starve the beast!
Bob S. approaches trollery. But he doesn’t come THAT close.
I too think McGovern is overblowing it. And, before you call me “troll,” I’ve voted Green for prez every election this century.
The first part of the memo, if allegations are correct, that intellegence staff didn’t reveal they were working off the Steele Dossier, may be moderately troubling to the Deep State, but no more.
The second part, the alleged targeting of Rosenstein, shoots any claims to the first part being non-political right in the foot.
At the same time, on the semi-connected news, I do think McCabe deserved the demotion, etc., that he would have received had he stayed.
I think I’ll wait until I actually get to read the memo to judge. The Dems are also pulling out the “National Security” card, saying everything they would need to refute Nunes’ memo is “highly classified”. What surprises me is that these handful of rebels exist in the House. I’m waiting for Schumer’s “six ways from Sunday”. Our only hope for any improvement in a post-Trump world is for the “Deep State” to be exposed and neutralized. BTW, I vote Green as well.
Skip, that said, a set of leaks and counterleaks would make this more fun! (We already had a bit of that from Dems on Senate Intell, over Fusion.)
Oh, and for everybody on this list, while Hillz and the DNC may have cut the final checks for Steele, let’s not forget that the candidate who allegedly first asked for this was Jeb!
And, in reality, Trump doesn’t want the so-called “deep state” neutralized any more than anybody else. He just wants any bias it had against him exposed and neutralized. And, on the House side, especially, Congressional GOP will march in lockstep.
This of course ultimately goes back to Ike, who ramped up the spying-snooping complex to replace the military-industrial complex, something few people mention when touting his comment.
Something I never understood is why Schumer was not questioned about his veiled threat to the President? “Just what do you mean Senator? That sounds like a threat.” And in light of the burden put on Trump over the last year it would seem worthy of an investigation as to what part he may have had in this conspiracy.
Troll alert: do not reply to the BobS comment.
Certainly, I always obey commands from someone whose screen name is “Anon”.
I like the optimism of Ray McGovern’s article but tend to believe the Deep State holds a dossier on too many members of congress to make a full investigation plausible.
Yes BobH, I was thinking something similar. Implicit in the question “will congress face down the deep state” assumes that congress is somehow above or not implicated in the deep state. Its obvious that the deep state is EVERYWHERE and I bet congress is riddled with deep state operatives. That great saying from George Orwell’s 1984 “where I sold you and you sold me under the spreading chestnut tree, comes to mind.
BobH and John Wilson –
I agree with you. And more, who finances the elections of the members of the congress! And MSM will shred to pieces anyone who dares to challenge. As it is, the System is beyond reform and repair.
Thank you BobH, I agree with your comment about Ray McGovern, he’s never negative.
Congress will never investigate itself, so as a forum, we have to “imagine” an extra governmental commission initially to simply and openly discuss alternatives. The framework, like an ideal graduate seminar to put pressure on the “system.” That’s why I’m attracted to Open Source Everything…
This is a big issue no matter what you think of Trump, since it appears that the fix was in to prevent him winning. I agree that, unless the leading figures of the cabal are held responsible that a precedent has been set, but I see things as probably too far gone even if congress holds the culprits accountable, and it looks to me like the police/surveillance state will go forward no matter what unless economic or some sort of collapse renders the system unable to continue.
[I’m somewhat back: more voices for facts and truth need to step up now that there’s the massive deficit left by the loss of Robert Parry, rest his soul.]]
I’d stated previously that I believed that the CIA was in on assisting the Dems to derail Sanders’ campaign. I might have been wrong, that it was the FBI, but I still stand by my “belief” that TPTB (Deep State) didn’t want Sanders to come out on top; if they were seeing, as I figure so, the big rise of Trump then it would only go to follow that having someone on the “other side” of the voter ballot similarly with a firm and forceful backing from the “masses” would have been WAY too big of a threat. Clinton, there should be little doubt on this, WAS THE candidate by/for/of TPTB. Clinton was amply marketed such that people would never believe that she could actually lose to Sanders: actual voter meddling occurred within the Democratic Party; this would never be believed by the Anyone-But-Trump crowd, nor the Clinton crowd, so the storyline of it just being a messy primary, sprinkled with the cooked-up distraction of election manipulation by “Russia” Clinton and TPTB (Deep State) would sneak out the “back door of the theatre” unscathed by the scandal.
The Dems and TPTB (Deep State) are scared crap-less because if this thing really unwinds then it unwinds to unveil the subversion of the Sanders campaign. THE REAL CRIME. And what’s really scary here is that this could actually leave the Party of Rape coming out high on top: we would have the Dems/Clinton/Deep State to thank for this.
My last thought on this is to realize that the CIA is pretty good about framing up the FBI. No love loss here. The real heavyweight is, and always has been, the CIA. Recall that 9/11 had the FBI in essence living with some of the future 9/11 perps; those perps were, of course, facilitated into the country by the CIA, AND, it was the CIA that locked out the likes of Colleen Rowley; she suggest, in her letter to Mueller (https://www.wanttoknow.info/911/9-11_summary_articles/020521coleenrowleymemofbidirectormueller) that it was higher echelon FBI folks that were blocking, and yes, but consider that those blockers could very well be reporting to the CIA (counter intelligence). Don’t mean to cloudy the subject at hand, but I feel that this gives weight to the idea/belief that the CIA could very well be the one executing the Big Plans, the FBI is cast into the role of performing, as puppets, the actions and that when the spotlight hits them they scramble to use all internal obfuscations at their disposal (some likely being provide by the CIA, perhaps with the FBI’s knowledge, perhaps not).
It’s the CIA that murders and does not care one iota about “democracy” or the rule of law. I doubt that they are clean in all of this; and if they are not clean then that would mean they were active, and if active then they’d have to have been to prime movers.
Might be that the CIA did the Big Damage by nixing Sanders and then left the FBI to undermine Trump. If there’s an institution that can hide from reproach any better than the CIA I do no know what it is.
You can’t paraphrase reality, which is what this empty soeculation atrempts.
Thanks for helping improve the dialog!
It does not take much of a dossier, or a true dossier, or a complete or official dossier, to discredit politicians with other politicians and supporters. It takes only false information in the right place at the right time.
False statements by a secret “security” agency can be used by any secret agency to deny employment, influence judges, and damage social relationships of any target, and they do this regularly and systematically, as their own documents have revealed. Those may be the acts of rogues or factions, whether or not in high administration, but they abuse public office for party gain.
There are other means to control politicians, such as controlling the political parties through infiltration or proxy donors. There are no Repub politicians who will refuse to go along with a scheme to benefit a major donor, even when they don’t know who it is, and apparently the Dems are now the same way. That is where their money comes from, and they obey it, whether by personal belief (Reps) or necessity (Dems).
The money that buys politicians via parties and mass media comes from an oligarchy including zionists, corporate officials, dependent politicians, and secret agencies. No doubt they buy sticks as they buy carrots, using threats and false accusations as they would use denial of campaign funding or employment.
Surely you’re right Sam F. so is the first correction public financing?
Dear Seer,
First, thanks for stepping in, to speak as well as anyone here can on behalf of Robert Parry and his passionate commitment to truth.
For years I have tried to get my head around what our Central Intelligence Agency is all about. Who it serves. I too am sickened by the lawlessness of our secretive agencies. Anyone could, apparently, become the target of their capriciousness.
The Occam’s Razor answer (given the violent outcomes from our Cold War illusions-driven policies – see “Cold War Crucible” Hajimu Masuda; and “America’s War for the Greater Middle East” Andrew Bacevich and the countless articles in Consortium News and other non MSM PUBLICATIONS that question the justifications and outcomes of American foreign policy) – the Occam’s Razor answer is that the CIA, from the beginning, has served the interests of the the most powerful industrialists and multinational corporations and banks – not the Constitution; not average Americans; not the people serving in the armed forces; not world peace or the health and wealth being or sustainability of life on this planet. All the coups and the mayhem have led to absurd, unintended? consequences that make us less safe and remind us of Eisenhower’s warnings of the MIC.
Just think of where we are now thanks, for example, from a couple of too many examples – to the Mosadegh coup; the Afghanistan mess, the Iraq War. These are ventures that were initiated with the oligarchs in mind while average Americans and our soldiers and our victims wind up paying in blood and treasure.
Our secretive foreign policy of endless regime change wars has produced millions of refugees destabilizing Europe. The Middle East is in chaos. It’s tragic.
These were all policies that Hillary Clinton embraced. She also embraced (tried to sell) fracking in Eastern Europe much to the dismay of organic farmers there. But hand in hand with BIG OIL.
If foreign policy were honestly debated would we be where we are? Would we be trillions in debt?
And that brings us back to Bernie whom Chomsky called a “decent honest New Deal democrat” and was trusted by Democrats Independents and Republicans to tell us the truth.
Bernie would have been the strongest Democratic candidate and would have won.
But I don’t think the oligarchs would have liked that – Clinton was their gal. And if the CIA at its political top serves the oligarchs, well then, Clinton was their gal too.
(Manuel Zelaya, when asked about Clinton and her support for the coup in Honduras a few years back, told AmyGoodman on Democracy Now that Clinton was “weak” and allowed herself to be influenced by right wing actors in the State Dept…..)
We can do better.