Government lies are common when seducing a population to support a war, but the Russian “hacking” claims are unusual in that U.S. officials supply no evidence while the “fact” is just assumed, as David Swanson explains.
By David Swanson
When the U.S. public was told that Spain had blown up the Maine, or Vietnam had returned fire, or Iraq had stockpiled weapons, or Libya was planning a massacre, the claims were straightforward and disprovable.
CIA Director John Brennan addresses officials at the Agency’s headquarters in Langley, Virginia. (Photo credit: CIA)
Before people began referring to the Gulf of Tonkin incident, somebody had to lie that it had happened, and there had to be an understanding of what had supposedly happened. No investigation into whether anything had happened could have taken as its starting point the certainty that a Vietnamese attack or attacks had happened. And no investigation into whether a Vietnamese attack had happened could have focused its efforts on unrelated matters, such as whether anyone in Vietnam had ever done business with any relatives or colleagues of Robert McNamara.
All of this is otherwise with the idea that the Russian government determined the outcome of the 2016 U.S. presidential election. U.S. corporate media reports often claim that Russia did decide the election or tried to do that or wanted to try to do that. But they also often admit to not knowing whether any such thing is the case.
There is no established account, with or without evidence to support it, of exactly what Russia supposedly did. And yet there are countless articles casually referring, as if to established fact to the . . .
“Russian influence in the 2016 presidential election” (Yahoo).
“Russian attempts to disrupt the election” (New York Times).
“Russian … interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election” (ABC).
“Russian influence over the 2016 presidential election” (The Intercept).
“a multi-pronged investigation to uncover the full extent of Russia’s election-meddling” (Time).
“Russian interference in the US election” (CNN).
“Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election” (American Constitution Society).
“Russian hacking in US Election” (Business Standard).”
“Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking” we’re told by the New York Times, but what is “election hacking”? Its definition seems to vary widely. And what evidence is there of Russia having done it?
The “Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections” even exists as a factual event in Wikipedia, not as an allegation or a theory. But the factual nature of it is not so much asserted as brushed aside.
Former CIA Director John Brennan, in the same Congressional testimony in which he took the principled stand “I don’t do evidence,” testified that “the fact that the Russians tried to influence resources and authority and power, and the fact that the Russians tried to influence that election so that the will of the American people was not going to be realized by that election, I find outrageous and something that we need to, with every last ounce of devotion to this country, resist and try to act to prevent further instances of that.” He provided no evidence.
Activists have even planned “demonstrations to call for urgent investigations into Russian interference in the US election.” They declare that “every day we learn more about the role Russian state-led hacking and information warfare played in the 2016 election.” (March for Truth.)
Belief that Russia helped put Trump in the White House is steadily rising in the U.S. public. Anything commonly referred to as fact will gain credibility. People will assume that at some point someone actually established that it was a fact.
Keeping the story in the news without evidence are articles about polling, about the opinions of celebrities, and about all kinds of tangentially related scandals, their investigations, and obstruction thereof. Most of the substance of most of the articles that lead off with reference to the “Russian influence on the election” is about White House officials having some sort of connections to the Russian government, or Russian businesses, or just Russians. It’s as if an investigation of Iraqi WMD claims focused on Blackwater murders or whether Scooter Libby had taken lessons in Arabic, or whether the photo of Saddam Hussein and Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands was taken by an Iraqi.
A general trend away from empirical evidence has been extensively noted and discussed. There is no more public evidence that Seth Rich (a Democratic National Committee staffer who was murdered last year) leaked Democratic emails than there is that the Russian government stole them. Yet both claims have passionate believers.
Still, the claims about Russia are unique in their wide proliferation, broad acceptance, and status as something to be constantly referred to as though already established, constantly augmented by other Russia-related stories that add nothing to the central claim. This phenomenon, in my view, is as dangerous as any lies and fabrications coming out of the racist right.
David Swanson is an author, activist, journalist, and radio host. He is director of WorldBeyondWar.org and campaign coordinator for RootsAction.org. Swanson’s books include War Is A Lie. He blogs at DavidSwanson.org and WarIsACrime.org. He hosts Talk Nation Radio. He is a 2015, 2016, 2017 Nobel Peace Prize Nominee. Follow him on Twitter: @davidcnswanson and FaceBook. [This article originally appeared at
http://davidswanson.org/were-dealing-with-a-new-type-of-war-lie/]
Russian hackers are tops, best in the world! It’s a generational thing going back to when it was one solid method of resisting the state, freedom of information and communication, and of course throwing a spanner in the works. Back in the day, nobody wrote tighter viral code than the Bulgarians and Albanians, a paucity of resources don’t you know. So it makes sense that for something like this they’d completely forget what a VPN is, how to spoof an IP address, and how to write a basic script to clean up after yourself on the way out. Well, I have days like that too.
One of them was the day that FBI/DHS report came out. Terrible! It must have taken me all of ten minutes to track down half of the malware packages and exploits they listed, but I did have to get a coffee on and feed the hounds. Fortunately, most of them were sitting in a convenient archive on Github, where they’d been for the last two years. Ran across one of the authors too, of the BlackEnergy package. Nice guy, goes by Cr4sh, a Ukrainian aeronautics student. Hey… I’ll bet he’d have some interesting inside info, what with chatter the way it is in those circles. One of those… what are they again? Re-port-ars? Yeah, might want to say high at least, this being kind of important and all. Oh never mind, I’ll bet they’re all busy talking to McAffee, Dvorak or Carr, cause those guys know all sorts of stuff. Wait… but how would they find these people! I mean, the web is pretty big! You’d have to have some fancy machine or something, like an engine of some kind that could find stuff for you and things like that.
Has it been almost a year? I feel as if I can count the months by the rings on the bump in the middle of my forehead. Is this finally the beginning of the end? Has the monumentaly obvious finally become apparent to a few outfits corageous enough to close their mouths and open their eyes long enough to see? Dear lady Ada please let it be so because I can’t take much more of this. Well there is one good thing that’s come out of this… It seems that every housewife and mechanic in America is now a l33t hax0r with mad spells. Can you even begin to guess how much smarter everyone is now? Wild!
I deserve a “Thank You Masked Man”. No! I must have my “Thank You Masked Man”! I must have, for only then may I ride off and spend my remaining years rendering 3D fractal videos for bad Psy-Trance artists in peace. Thank you.
This has grown so far beyond reality that it has taken on a life of it’s own. No matter how many credible leaders state that this is not wrong everyone in politics (and business) cultivates connections; there are those naive enough to believe what the left leaning leadership spouts to get their 15 seconds on air. IS there no longer any standard or ethics in the media? we once believed what we read or saw on the news; now we can’t believe any of them. SAD that our country has fallen so far.
I guess it’s time we all understood that there are so many supposable news stations and “so called” news reporters that in order for them to have something to report they have to make it up! Then of course if one reports it the others get “left out sindrom” and have to add their “make believed” source of further “facts” of the situation.
THIS FOLKS IS THE MEDIA TODAY?
Russia is not seen to be a threat to world security and there is still no proof that Russia has interfered with elections etc in America, even by the Americans….
See… http://nationalinterest.org/feature/russia-really-americas-top-security-threat-19298 and… http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/kind-threat-russia-pose-u-s/
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/24/russia-lithuania-nato-grybauskaite-putin-trump-interview/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2017/03/06/what-russian-threat-americans-shouldnt-be-running-scared-of-moscow/#2cb0db4c13c9
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ivan-eland/russia-is-not-as-much-of_b_12751532.html
https://www.brookings.edu/podcast-episode/is-russia-a-threat/ Pod cast at http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/d/7/1/d7117cddd43f5e6c/170224_BrookingsCafeteria_Pifer.mp3?c_id=14305164&expiration=1495893984&hwt=50bb77b173e4a6e16e9da084eeacfc22
https://eenvandaag.atavist.com/nato-russia
http://www.scout.com/military/warrior/story/1678431-if-russia-attacks-baltics-overun-nato
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/08/18/russia-is-now-a-threat-the-u-s-should-treat-it-like-one/?utm_term=.546170717d86
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/russia-is-a-threat-estonia-frets-about-its-neighbor/2017/03/24/011ad320-0f2b-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html?utm_term=.0aaa390c4463
The war machine in America should stop watching 007 films and Hollywood films as well as computer games that portray Russia as a threat…
Total Bull crap. We better talk to the Russians, and just maybe we should stop talking to the Saudi’s.
Talking to the Russians is not a sin, at least when every other president talked to them it was not. The attempt to prevent communication with Russia is connected to the deep states attempt to provoke war with them.
Maybe we should pull all those Nato weapons that Obama sent up to the Russian border, back away from the border. This was an obvious attempt to start a war just as President Trump took office. There was no rational reason for it. Fortunately Putin was wise enough to not fall for this s obvious provocation. Russia does not war. No sane intelligent person does. Putin would like to have the US for a friendly trading partner. They are our closest neighbors next to Canada, and Mexico. 65 miles from Alaska. We bought Alaska from the Russians, s and there are still a lot of Russians in Alaska and in the pacific North West. Most of them are good hard working citizens, which is more then I can says for many of the human refuses the liberal Democrats are so anxious to bring into our country.
Russia is just a foil to divert attention from the real dangerous political influence in America. It is worth noting that is was the Clinton’s that sold Uranium to Russia, it was O that told Putin that he, O, would have more flexibility in 2016. The establishment has turned our govt into a third world form of govt, where the rule of politicians instead of the rule of law is SOP.
The real danger is from islam since they have launched a global jihad to take over Europe and the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia. There are no rights in islam, you either believe in islam or you are dead. The caliphate is the OWG to be ruled by the caliph. And mosque and state are one and the same, so the powers of govt are used to force people to believe in Mo.
T had no political power until he was elected and the RINOs and Dems, the establishment, are trying their best to make sure T still has no political power. Since they can’t vote him out of office another 4 years, they have a fake impeachment they are trying to sell to the public, but the public has no power to impeach and it is a trial so they will have to prove he is guilty. Even the president is innocent until proven guilty.
IMO their best solution to save their rears is to abandon this impeachment plan which will come back to haunt them when they have to try and get re-elected. Instead try and work out a deal, to gradually drain the swamp, instead of trying to plug the drain pipe. There is more political danger to them if this impeachment plan, probably hatched up by O and H, fails than to actually have a trial which will exonerate T and make them appear as fools. The biggest fools in American history!
Consider the Great Depression. This was a period of deflation, chaotic deflation, out of control deflation. Managed deflation, controlled by liquidating the national debt over the next 50 to 100 years will make America great and debt free. And will force the super rich bankers off the govt gravy train, govt patronage for the rich, know as interest on the national debt. Interest on the national debt is essentially a Ponzi scheme to put the power of taxation to private use. To avoid another depression when liquidating the fed res the liquidation needs to be like barbecuing their golden goose, Do it slow and easy. But hot enough to render all the fat out of the banker;s net worth.
How long will this brainwashing continue that Russia had something to do with Trump’s election to president? This is the same bombardment from the media and anti-Trump morons that cannot accept that Americans voted against evil Hillary, but had no choice other than vote for another lying psychopath. Hillary is smart and evil; Trump is dumb and evil.
The world would be a better place, if these two joined their comrades David Rockefeller and Zbigniev Brzezinski in hell.
“If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth”. — Leo Strauss.
It appears that there are those who were so disappointed in losing the election to President Trump, that they are willing to sale our Great America to the Winds of Self Destruction. If the tables were turned they would expect civil support from the losing party or opposition. Yet, the losing party is doing all it can to undermine our Democratic System of Government. We are a nation divided, and leaning towards first stages of Civil War. President Trump wants to clear the swamp, and that is one of the reasons I am glad he was voted into office. At the next election both Democrats and Republicans who have been in office at the present will most likely not get my vote. They have had a chance to change things as they promised in their previous elections, and nothing was done to change the Senatorial or Congressional culture of bending to Lobbyist, and Good Ol’ Boy trading of votes for pet projects and next election donations. Some have been in office more than thirty years and need to be gone. The system was not originally set up for such long terms. Maybe two terms and you went back to your land and/or business. Enough said. I will support our American President, our American Government. If it means sending illegal immigrants and extremist religious person from our country I will be of service to the President, and the United States of America. Sorry for the long entry. To comment on the article; I do not believe the general media hype or elected Democrat members of Congress that the Russians and President Trump fiddled with the Presidential Election of 2016.
The 1st Amendment specifies, “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press …” But just as SCOTUS decisions have ruled yelling “FIRE!” in a crowded theater is NOT allowed under ‘freedom of speech’, the shame-stream media should NOT be allowed to invent news from “anonymous sources” based on “[freedom] … of the press” 1st Amendment privileges. When the New York Times publishes a “news” story that contains NO FACTS other than assertions of “anonymous sources”, the American public should have a course to file felony charges against any and all individuals at that publication for “bearing false witness” (lying) to the American public.
All of this conjecture that Russia had influenced our election is diversion from the contents of WikiLeaks email hacks. Let’s put our efforts, interest and curiosity upon the email contents and look through the magnifying glass of discernment between good and evil. Don’t get emotionally distracted but remain focused on the good and evil.
If the Russians influenced our election it would have been in Hillary’s favor. I am sure they are smart enough to figure out that trump is a energetic and patriotic American who they could not manipulate and would have prefered to have Hillary as the president.
Whoopidypoo!!! Like the USA has never done anything to sway an election in another country. If Hillary had used the protected server like she was supposed to it would have never happened. The joke is on her stupidity. Didn’t matter anyway…the only people who thought she had a chance to win were in the corrupt news media…all the working people already knew there were not enough stupid people to vote for her. Come on be real…the Dem’s were paying people to go to her speeches and to protest against Trump. They should all be in jail for what they did to try to divide this country.
Where ever there is a computer there will be some one trying to hack it! FACT Lets get on with an important issue like fixing health care so I can get mine back! They have wasted enough of my tax money on these lies already!
The basis for the Russians to affect our election would have been to get Hillary elected. They would have a much better time using their principles than with trump and we must be satisfied that Donald won.
Although I do not believe the Russian influence in our elections, but I do believed that Trump’s sons ,daughter and son-in-law are all in for a big kill from Trump’s Presidency! Sons try to open new towers in different countries. Daughter tried to push her failing clothing line in US to the Chinese customers via Xing Ping chocolate cake feeding frenzy by Trump on his Debt Largo mansion in Florida.
Son-in- law tried to get a $400 million loan from a corrupt Russian Bank to pay off his bad debts.
Just like his father who did few yeas back and get caught and spent time in pleasureville.
A. Razzi
It feels like we’re back in the early 60’s and I’m waiting for the teacher to tell me to jump under my desk and “duck and cover”! Why is Russia suddenly the bad guy again? We all know that Putin has his eye on a divided Europe but Russia and US haven’t had a lot of bad blood of late until the Ukraine problem. I think having Russia as allies rather than enemies is a good move for President Donald!
i AM UNDERSTANDING OF A CONCERN INVOLVING KUSHNER AND THE ‘ADMINISTRATION. THIS SEEMS TO BE GETTING ‘DEEPER AND DEEPER’ AND @ SOME POINT SOMEONE ‘VERY CLOSE TO THE ‘POTUS’ MIGHT ‘TAKE THE FALL’–MUCH LIKE ‘SCOOTER LIBBY’ DID. PLEASE BE CAREFUL, PEOPLE AS THIS TOO WILL (EVENTUALLY) ‘GO AWAY–AND BE ‘PUSHED ASIDE–FOR WHAT?
There are some core flaws with the author’s critique, some of them even logical contradictions.
WMD in Iraq is an example of false flags, but that does not mean all acts of aggression against the US are false flags. What about Pearl Harbor? that was real, right? So was 911. Just because all apples are fruits does not mean that all fruits are apples.
(that being said, I do agree that it is always wise to be skeptical of any institutionalized narrative, but not beyond reason).
There is compelling evidence of Russian involvement in election influence. Enough that it is rational to make this case. Not only that, there is plausible reasons why Russia (or any government) would want to influence our politics (as we have done the same in foreign countries) so even making the claim is not a stretch of the imagination or leap of logic. What is unknown is how well it worked.
Russia currently is eager to influence many extreme groups in the US, from both the extreme right and the extreme left. http://www.snopes.com/2017/01/30/calexit-campaign-supported-russia/
Russia is not a distraction. It is helping us understand “information warfare” and many independent rational people are now learning how to distinguish and inoculate our communities against it.
Consider; Perhaps the reason we’ve never experienced anything as a nation like the 2016 election is because we’ve never had a severe misinformation campaign waged against us before…
Information warfare is EASY to implement, it can be done with very very little resources.
Some may say that it had no to little effect, people make their own decisions at the voting booth.
They are mistaken. that is not how persuasion works. People don’t buy snack products and think the only reason they did so is because a commercial told them to either. We spend billions every year on PR, marketing and advertising. To say persuasion does not work is naive.
In PR, Marketing, or Advertising, sometimes the only way to know if a campaign works is either the success, or failure, of the result.
Trump won. If I was Russia, I would assume the campaign worked.
Just like in France, Russia can also assume that their tactics did not work in regards to Le Pen.
The only way to inoculate against misinformation campaigns is to be aware of the tactics used. Once someone is aware of a persuasion tactic, the tactic immediately loses its charm and fails to deliver results.
As far as I know, no one has claimed that the leaked emails were fabricated. There was no misinformation, just information the Hillary camp didn’t want made public. If the Russians tactics were to provide us with the truth, I say “Thank you very much.” That said, all rational evidence (not to be found on the MSM), is that the information was leaked, not hacked, and from within the DNC.
I would say that your skepticism of the MSM narrative in grossly insufficient.
There are more curious circumstances surrounding Seths murder than Russian hacking claims.
What David didn’t say is Julian Assange and Wikileaks have already dismissed that Russians provided the DNC or Podesta emails.
So, why hasn’t the investigation gone down a different path. The US media has dismissed the facts provided by Wikileaks.
Also, since David mentioned Seth Rich, a high level employee tasked with IT management and loyal Bernie Sanders employee who was murdered in D.C., why hasn’t the US news media gone down that path?
I watched CNN broadcasters chastise a GOP lawmaker who wants the Rich murder investigated. Their entire point was there is no evidence to support that he was murdered and no evidence he leaked the documents to Wikileaks.
As David points out, there is NO evidence that Russia did it either, but that hasn’t stopped the media from claiming it as fact.
But, even mentioning Seth Rich is taboo. Sean Hannity is likely to be fired by Fox News over bringing it up last week. What? Because the DNC hired a mouthpiece (crisis control expert) to work with the family. If that isn’t a red flag, I’m not sure what is!
And since when do parents of a victim get to dictate who and how an investigation is handled and whether or not the media covers it or not?
I’ve been muckraking on our media long enough to smell a pile of sh**.
It is obvious by now that there is no real evidence of Russian interference in the elections – if there was, it would have been leaked a long time ago. The absence of any such leaks is itself convincing evidence that this a fabricated, fake story. Everything is now being blamed on Putins nefarious machinations – Brexit, the Italian referendum, the Bulgarian election, somebodys dog biting the postman. Even if Putin had superhuman powers like a figure from Marvel Comics, he would have to work 25 hours a day to achieve everything attributed to him. This nonsense will continue for a while until everyone gets bored with it. Then all the Schumers, Maddows, Maxine Waters, CNNs, etc. will quietly try to distance themselves from it and deny all knowledge. The end result will be to discredit further (if such a thing is possible) the ruling elite and its ever obsequious mainstream media.
Opponents of the move to neutralize or unseat the President and accelerate the Cold War have won a number of battles. One, to criminalize contacts with Russia or to convince the public that such contacts are criminal, and two to inflate “hacking” as some sort of attack against the United States. Any time either is mentioned, it is used by the opposition as serious transgressions and any discovery of either serve as an attack on the President and efforts at détente.
By writers, seemingly critical of these actions, acknowledging that contacts are bad and hacking is an attack on the United States, they cede the playing field to the opposition.
We are not at war with Russia and we do hacking or phishing or whatever all the time and often boast of it.
And Vladimir Putin was never , ever in Dresden DDR, , from 1985 through 1990 as a young kgb agent, who vowed, he would not let happen to the former USSR what happened to Germany. No humiliation from the West ever, again. This is not Russia Baiting, this is a man who wants his country to be respected and feared. Imagine if you will, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, California, all being for whatever reasons, becoming separate regions/countries. Do you not think someone would want to restore the United States? Do you think an American, USA leader would just say, “OH, that’s okay. So we had some states , but now we don’t.” Hell,no, so why does anyone think Putin is going to take 30 years of Western Humiliation face down. I am no Russia hater at all, but I totally understand their motive for giving it to us in our ass.
One America News Network, now available on Direct TV, had a special concerning the murder of Seth Rich the other evening. Having missed it, I went to their website to find out when it might be available again for viewing. But any page concerning Seth Rich currently shows a ‘Error 404 – page missing from server’. What does this mean? And what happened to the story? Is the NSA truly watching and ‘disappearing’ anything getting close to the truth of what’s really going on? I’m new to this site, and would like any of your opinions.
. Seth Rich was killed. Call the local police for a report, unless you believe the local police are in on it too. Better yet, call his parents, or read their letter to the Media, pleading to stop these lies. You do know it is Memorial Day on Monday, don’t you? Please , have some shred of decency
In a commencement address yesterday at her alma mater, Wellesley, Hillary was compelled to blame Russia for her loss, even then she could not focus on commencement of college grads but had to make it about herself. The Congress critters pushing the Russia-did-it tale are so far over the edge that they don’t even realize it. Which also goes for the MSM prattlers. Maybe they truly are stuck in the belly of a whale, as Max suggests, it’s an alternate reality.
THE AGONY AND THE …
“Another mode of meaning behind the obvious, or none. Either Oedipa in the orbiting ecstasy of a true paranoia, or a real Tristero. For there either was some Tristero beyond the appearance of the legacy America, or there was just America and if there was just America then it seemed the only way she could continue, and manage to be at all relevant to it was as an alien, unfurrowed, assumed full circle into some paranoia.” The Crying of Lot 49
The real Trump has disappointed. Love the dolphins and await the real Tristero. The Trump legacy will be generous dealings with Russia in the White House. Sin against God, not the Bureau. God will forgive you.
Max – Ask your dealer for some milder stuff. Whatever you are smoking has put you way out in loony-tunes-land.
“Russian influence over the 2016 presidential election” (The Intercept).”
By far the most upsetting line in this article. I expect better of The Intercept.
“The “Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections” even exists as a factual event in Wikipedia, not as an allegation or a theory. But the factual nature of it is not so much asserted as brushed aside.”
Doesn’t this just want to make you puke in your soup?
Or Borscht.
I recommend this short article for demystifying the “deep state.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/26/the-deep-state-is-the-state/
I’m gonna let somebody else break Herbington’s bubble…assesses = guesses.
When it comes to professional liars, like “intelligence” agencies, it’s always wise to ask them for some hard evidence. Their opinions don’t amount to squat. I’m still waiting for them to show me the weapons of mass destruction they SAID were in Iraq.
That was like a batting practice home run…..
Nope not me. I’m going to let Herbington think he won, and then maybe he will just go away.
Are we forgetting about the ICA report that came out? People are believing the “Hacking” claim because 3 of our intelligence agencies have came out and all agreed that it was indeed Russia. They have a whole report about it. It’s been available for months now.
From the report: “We assess with high confidence that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election, the consistent goals of which were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency.
Why is this still up for debate? Who do you guys want to hear it from? Would you believe it if it came from ANYONES mouth? Or are you guys just going to deny it no matter who says it? Is it an evidence thing? If so, you do know these intelligence agencies can not release certain methods because then future attacks will deliberately avoid those methods because they would be public knowledge.
Again, 3 independent Intelligence agencies assessed with High Confidence that Russia interfered with our election.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3254237/Russia-Hack-Report.pdf
Here’s the report.
non of that flies in a court of law…
evidence #1…we say so
evidence #2….we say so
evidence #3…we say so
not guilty,,,,maybe even dismissed
Wow!!! How stupid I’ve been!! A whole report!!! Available for months!!! That’s it, case closed, the evil Ruskies did it!!
Herbington, if the “intelligence agencies” told you that they have evidence that Black is White and Grey Is Red, you would believe them.
You are exactly the kind of sad, so-called “citizen” that they love.
A fresh look at “interference” in the election. If Russian news outlets are blamed for favoring a certain candidate, what about the whole Western European news agencies and newspapers favoring the other candidate? I followed Scandinavian newspapers and TV stations, as well as BBC. Clinton was seen as the clear forehand winner because of her enormous “experience” and Trump was totally ridiculed day after day. Very few seemed to understand why she was so disliked by many Americans. I would believe that Americans follow the Western European media more than they watch the Russian media. How could they be so swayed to support Trump in this case?
I remember seeing a broadcast, explaining that Clinton support in the polls did not decrease after the Wikileaks e-mail revelations. So how on earth were the Russians found guilty?
Recalling that Trump put Pence to head the investigation of the claimed election fraud, resulting in the substantial popular vote advantage for Hillary. Did we hear anything more about it? Or does my memory fail me? I still have certain suspicions, as the bulk of her votes was limited to a few big cities. And such a funny little detail was published during the slow counting of California votes, long into December – it takes so long as many more ballots than usually are smeared with coffee and food stains, making them hard to read. How could that be?
Not that it is the main concern at this point.
Many commenters above have given the obvious reasons why this Russia narrative is kept alive. I agree with Jessica, backwardsevolution and others.
Whenever democrats are allowed to express themselves, for example being interviewed by Tucker Carlson (almost the only commentator I now bear to watch), they breathlessly repeat like parrots the same points: 17 unanimous intelligence agencies (proven a lie), Russia violently attacking and invading Crimea (not quite so, with their permanent naval base already there) and the Eastern Ukraine (not true), Russia and Trump supporting bloodthirsty dictators like Assad who poisons his own people (also proven untrue), and so on…
The country has enormous issues to solve, immigration-related questions, infrastructure, health care, criminality, gun violence, tax reform, education and whatever. The new administration is not allowed to give their attention to any of these matters because all their energy goes to fighting back the Russia accusations. Thus the democrats will soon be able to criticise the ineffectivity of the administration. The Congress is forced to “investigate” the accusations without any end in sight, and not do their normal work.
No, the Russia issue must be kept alive to avoid the attention turning to the wrong-doings of the other side.
As mentioned above by many, Trump is not able to keep his campaign promises, partly because of this hysteria. Partly because he certainly had no idea how his promises could be kept and that all the issues he promised to “fix” are not so simple to turn into laws.
He is not able to lift a finger to normalize the relations with Russia. Just think how the D-crowd would rejoice if he would repeal some of the irrational sanctions against Russia. “See! He is working for Russia! Putin’s puppet! Just like we warned you!”
Final question – is America really now in the midst of a low intensity civil war, also called Civil War 2.0? I saw a documentary “The divided states of America” which supports this notion. The film showed the serious unrest already in the beginning of Obama reign, now it is much worse.
Just imagining how furious the R-opposition to Hillary’s administration would be, had she won, and would govern side by side with Huma Abedin.
Over at NROnline, Andrew McCarthy’s hair is on fire. He’s had it up to here with “the Politicized, Evidence-Free ‘Collusion with Russia’ Narrative,” and he’s not gonna take it anymore. Not only does he apply his extensive background in law to the Washington charade, he makes three recommendations for exposing and calling to account those responsible for this irresponsible abuse of the law for the purpose of removing from office a president, albeit an unpleasant and inappropriate one, yet elected through an expression of the will of the American people.
Neither pols nor pundits will care, of course. The narrative is working far too well for its neocon and Democrat instigators to abandon it. Besides, American news organizations are selling too many papers and enjoying too high television ratings to want the good times to end quite so soon.
As for the people, well screw you.
Thanks for this delia. McCarthy debunks the “collusion with Russia scandal” and makes good recommendations:
“First, the Justice Department should appoint a special counsel to investigate the potential abuse of government surveillance powers for the purposes of political spying and leaks to the media. The investigation should scrutinize all unmasking of Americans to determine whether it conformed to court-ordered restrictions. The president should immediately announce that he is ordering U.S. intelligence agencies to cooperate fully. He should add that he is willing to declassify forthwith relevant reports and the identities of officials involved in the unmasking of Americans — with the caveat that important intelligence secrets will be safeguarded. It should be made clear that any official who had access to classified information that was leaked to the media should expect to be summoned for grand-jury testimony about his or her handling of it.
Second, the appropriate committees of Congress should convene hearings on whether the Obama Justice Department sought to influence the outcome of the 2016 election, and whether it colluded with the Clinton campaign toward that end. The committees should examine, compare, and contrast the Justice Department’s treatment of the investigation of Hillary Clinton’s mishandling of classified information and destruction of tens of thousands of government files, versus its treatment of the investigation of suspected collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. The review should include such matters as whether an effort was made by Obama-administration departments and agencies to downgrade the significance of classified information found on Mrs. Clinton’s servers, while a simultaneous effort was being made to inflate the significance of suspected Trump ties to Russia.
Third, the appropriate committees of Congress should convene hearings on collusion between the Clinton Foundation and Russia, focusing especially on payments by Russian interests to Bill Clinton and to the foundation, and actions taken by then–secretary of state Hillary Clinton that benefited Russia (including approval of the sale to a Kremlin-tied energy company of major U.S. uranium assets). The committees should compare and contrast the concrete evidence of Clinton Foundation collusion with Russia versus unproved suspicions of Trump campaign collusion with Russia.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447915/trump-russia-collusion-john-brennan-testimony-how-fight-politicized-narrative
Gregory,
I not only like what you said, but I like the way that you said it!!!
(..SMILE..)
I can’t take credit for McCarthy’s recommendations. But here’s another article that gets after some real issues:
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2017/05/25/deep-six-the-deep-state/
The FISA Court scolds Obama Administration:
“The National Security Agency under former President Barack Obama routinely violated American privacy protections while scouring through overseas intercepts and failed to disclose the extent of the problems until the final days before Donald Trump was elected president last fall, according to once top-secret documents that chronicle some of the most serious constitutional abuses to date by the U.S. intelligence community.”
Hi Gregory,
No. These are the kind of idea’s that I think that we should be sharing! As you know, the great author’s of these sites can only interpret the events and present us with the facts. .. It’s up to us build and run with them. (..smile..)
I have a heck of a “honey do list” today. But, I will definitely check out the link a little later on. Thanks again so much – Great stuff Gregory!!
Hey Gregory,
Great stuff! Is it going to take them hanging themselves (each other) – before we can even talk about our (1st, 4th and 5th) Amendments?
I found this to be the key:
~ “.. Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act – which gives the NSA and other intelligence agencies wide berth to “accidentally” spy on Americans – is up for renewal soon, and the Spook Lobby is already going into high gear to make sure this loophole stays intact. The media’s silence over the FISA court’s rebuke of the Obama administration is part of this campaign.” ~
…….
So, I found this article of a transcribed interview on npr:
~ ” …:
‘Intelligence Leaks Complicate Efforts To Renew Key Surveillance Program’
April 17, 20174:30 PM ET
Republican officials are outraged by leaks indicating U.S. intelligence agencies spied on Trump associates. But their anger is also tainting a top priority for national security hardliners: the re-authorization of an expiring warrant-less surveillance program known as Section 702. It currently sweeps up countless Americans, and lawmakers are demanding at least an estimate of how many before the statute is extended.
KELLY MCEVERS, HOST:
A key surveillance program is set to expire at the end of the year, and even its supporters aren’t sure it will be renewed. It is Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and it’s been brought up in congressional investigations of Russia’s meddling in the U.S. presidential election. NPR’s David Welna reports on why some lawmakers think it’s a problem.
DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: How important are the spying powers in Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act? I put that question to Raj De, who was until two years ago the National Security Agency’s general counsel.
RAJ DE: Section 702 is probably one of the most if not the most valuable surveillance authority for the national security community today.
WELNA: That’s because U.S. law generally requires time-consuming court orders for any surveillance involving Americans. But under Section 702, that’s no longer necessarily the case. Elizabeth Goitein as an expert on that statute at the Brennan Center for Justice.
ELIZABETH GOITEIN: Section 702 essentially legalized President Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program. It allows the government acting inside the United States to collect communications between foreign targets overseas and Americans without getting a FISA warrant, which is what was required previously when an American was on one end of the conversation.
WELNA: There still is a requirement to mask the names of American persons or entities in surveillance records. Even so, at a House Judiciary Committee hearing last month on reauthorizing section 702, Goitein testified that Americans emails or phone conversations collected under that statute could be used against them in a criminal case. Republican Ted Poe was indignant.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
TED POE: They get the information on the American, and then they file criminal charges. And all of that is done without a search warrant under the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States against that American citizen, correct?
GOITEIN: That’s correct.
POE: And I think that is illegal and a violation of the Constitution and abuse of power by our government on Americans.
WELNA: As an example of such alleged abuse, Idaho Republican Raul Labrador pointed to recent news leaks about Michael Flynn’s phone conversations with the Russian ambassador, leaks that doomed Flynn’s brief stint as President Trump’s national security adviser.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
RAUL LABRADOR: For me, it had a chilling effect – that I thought my political opponents could use my personal information that they maybe gathered in some private communication against me in the future. That should be quite terrifying to anybody, whether you’re a Republican or a Democrat.
WELNA: Such misgivings have supporters of extending the Section 702 program alarm. At the House Intelligence Committees only open hearing on Russian election meddling, Florida Republican Tom Rooney warned NSA Director Mike Rogers that intelligence leaks about Americans fueled opposition to renewing Section 702.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
TOM ROONEY: It’s really going to hurt the people on this committee and you all in the intelligence community. When we try to retain this tool this year, in trying to convince some of our colleagues that this is really important for national security, when somebody in the intelligence community says, you know what; to hell with it; I’m going to release this person’s name because I’m going to get something out of it, we’re all going to be hurt by that if we can’t reauthorize this tool. Do you agree with that?
MIKE ROGERS: Yes, Sir.
WELNA: At that same hearing, South Carolina Republican Trey Gowdy pointed out the surveillance of Michael Flynn because the actual target was the Russian ambassador was most likely done under a different surveillance statute.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
TREY GOWDY: But in the eyes of people watching, it is the U.S. government officials leaking the name of a U.S. citizen. And if it can happen here, it may happen there. Trust me. You and I both want to see it reauthorized. It is in jeopardy if we don’t get this resolved.
WELNA: For other lawmakers, the real issue is how many Americans’ communications get swept up annually in the 702 program.
RON WYDEN: The intelligence leadership has stonewalled on this issue for more than five years.
WELNA: That’s Oregon Democratic Senator Ron Wyden. At Dan Coats’ confirmation hearing to be director of National Intelligence, Wyden tried extracting a promise from him to come up with an estimate.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
WYDEN: Will you commit to getting this number to this committee and the public before reauthorization?
DAN COATS: Yes, I do. I’ve got to do everything I can to work with Admiral Rogers and NSA to get you that number. I’ve been told it’s an extremely complex process for a number of reasons.
WELNA: Coats said intelligence agencies might have trouble tallying up all the Americans whose communications had been scooped up under 702 in what’s officially known as incidental collection. But the Brennan Center’s Goitein believes there’s a more cynical reason why there’s been no estimate.
GOITEIN: Because the number’s going to be enormous at least if it’s honestly discerned and reported. If we learned that it was actually tens of millions or more of Americans’ communications, we would understand that the term incidental here is somewhat meaningless.
WELNA: Even without that number, skepticism about Section 702 is clearly growing on both sides of the political aisle. David Welna, NPR News, Washington.
…” ~
Thanks Again Gregory! – Let’s hope the Left starts picking up on this aspect; as well!!
It’s the bottom of the 3rd, and the sultan of swat, Bob Mueller has been brought in to pinch hit. You remember Bob; he first entered the game on 9/4/2001. .. And, he sure nailed that grand slam back in that first inning!
The acronyms have been operating in the dark, and with full impunity, since ww1. .. Their job has been largely Wedge & Divide. .. They’ve made a whole lot of history (misery) with it.. .. And, the conversation today is Manning, Snowden and Wikileaks, who has been kicking their butts. .. At what point, does some ‘genius’ say “..if we can’t beat ‘em – let’s join ‘em..”
What’s Bob’s greatest fear? Who threatened his job with their proven incompetence? Who would Bob (and James) hate more, Hillary or Donald?
In mid 2013, Bob chaperoned the transfer of State Department government property to Platte River Systems, when they had their server stored in their bathroom closet..
And, I would hope that BOB, would have an idea what was in those 30,000 missing emails. .. It was his job. So, who deleted those emails, because surely Bob, wouldn’t just let an ex employee destroy government property, right?
The DNC knew that they were being hacked in 2015. .. And supposedly, James, just looked away. It was much like Bob, he suddenly got very stupid about his job, while the real pro’s like Crowdstrike, were called in. Why?
(..they looked away from their jobs twice, but now, we supposedly have a real crime to shout about..)
Bernie’s team was identified immediately on the Voter Activation Network software in December 2015. .. But now, the democratic contractor NGP VAN say’s “..no comment..”
Gavin MacFayden lived in London. .. So, where are Seth’s phone and internet communications records; as well as any travel records? How about MacFaydens?
Why did the Democratic Party leaks come out after California was done counting? They were being hacked for at least a year. Which had to be the first coup, to go down? .. Number two.(?) .. And now, maybe, a number three.(?)
Who hacked the French election? When? .. And, why was it leaked when it would not change a thing?
(..btw: cyber security is projected to be 40% of the revenue for the corporations in the defense industry; as well..)
Here’s my priorities for pecking order:
1 – Investigate the alphabet soup bowl, because at the very least, we already have proven negligence.
2 – Investigating Hillary is mandatory, because of the facts associated with number one.
3 – Investigate all Gov Dept’s, Politicians, K Street, Lobbyists and Think Tanks for corruption.
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.
~ John Maynard Keynes
cmp – “Gavin MacFayden lived in London. .. So, where are Seth’s phone and internet communications records; as well as any travel records? How about MacFaydens?”
Yes, where are they? I’ve wondered that too. Why don’t they just get hold of MacFayden’s computer and phone records? It would surely show any communication between he and Seth Rich. Although it could be that Seth Rich’s contact was Craig Murray, who was the ex-ambassador from the U.K. who travelled to D.C. to collect the data. Craig Murray may have been the one who gave the information to MacFayden, and then MacFayden got the info to Wikileaks. It would be nice to know how this went down.
Hey bwe!
Yes, that’s exactly right. We really do have two separate crimes that may, or may not be linked. By the time that we got into last summer I was active on some local issues that had to do with ‘Dark Money’ in my State, and I had forgotten about Craig. I ‘am so glad that you brought him up.
I also, want to mention that now that we have the vote by mail systems in place, campaigns really do have the equivalent of actual election days – to the number of days that the early ballots are mailed out. So, the final phase of the campaign (Get Out The Vote) really needs to start start about (4-6) weeks before the earliest of the Vote By Mail ballots are actually mailed out, and then your gotv strategy is followed through to the last election day.
This same logic also applies to the ‘October Surprise.’ .. And, this does lead me to believe that the acronyms were tilting the scale in the General Election. They know that in a purple race, that a good overall turnout will favor the Democrat to win. And, that this factor is like instant gerrymandering and will take precedence over the typical assumptions of the day. So, when James and the Courts kept coming back at the key times with the negativity, they knew, that this would suppress the vote. This is another part of what leads me to believe that the acronyms need to be investigated, because I believe they are well rehearsed with using these techniques in many countries besides ours.
The other thing that really bothers me was that leak in the French election. It has a definite smell to it – of something that we have all smelled before.
I also believe that we should start coordinating closer with the European Allies, Canada, etc., to look at their laws on Campaign Finance to better understand our own, and theirs. .. And at the same time, start keeping a better eye on how American money may be routed to influence their elections. I wouldn’t doubt for a second, that even our American tax dollars are/were being sloshed around (let alone the corporate buck) in some of these Global/European elections.
Just a quick note.
There is 100% evidence of interference in the 2016 election, but by the DNC as demonstrated by emails put out by Wikileaks.
The US Intelligence Report (by 3 not 17 US intel agencies) for all of its attempt to use accusation as evidence, did provide one fact.
That fact being that they found no evidence that what Wikileaks put out contained any forgeries.
But no one, not even the Republicans, hell, not even the Trump White House is calling for an investigation into DNC interference in the 2016 election.
Please NOTE that the Special Counsel named to investigate IS LIMITED to investigating interference in the 2016 election only related to Russia.
Interference that led to people being taken off the voter rolls, changes in people’s voter registration, the closing of polls leading to extremely long lines to vote, Republican programs such as Cross Check and Voter ID CANNOT be investigated by the Special Counsel.
What do the Democrats and Republicans fear that they demand to limit the investigation into interference in the 2016 election?
The propaganda against Russia started a long time before the elections. Generally I think it’s because Russia had the audacity to help out in Syria when asked. The pentagon seems to hate competition, or simply not getting what they want when they want. Never mind the concept of Syria being a sovereign nation or the those pesky international laws which get in their way since they usually think they have a legal ‘workaround’ A leader must be a bad person so it’s ok to go and blow a country up.
What I have found at a more simple empirical level are some basic answers to 3 questions, or else the response was a blank stare. I asked some people who were/are holding up signs saying “Russia is our enemy” or “Russia hacked our elections” and read in RT how 60% of Americans think Russia is our enemy ( not sure of the polling percentage of error) In any case, back to the simple. I had the chance to ask some of these sign holders 3 basic questions:
1- Since the US voting machines can be hacked if one can access a machine before or after a vote and change the input/output settings (I have no doubt this can happen), this would imply direct access to the machines since they aren’t connected to the internet. How could Russia hack machines that are not even tied to the internet? They must have had the time and the expertise to pre-input the machines somehow?
2- For those of you holding signs, how many of you read the DNC papers released by Wikileaks? Or the emails from Podesta? As one could imagine, no one I asked had read either releases, but Russia was still somehow to blame even if they weren’t familiar with the content. I suppose because Clinton said so, along with her false report of all 17 intelligence agencies agreeing.
3- Lastly, for those of you holding up the bash Russia signs, how did any news,local or national, or word of mouth and innuendo of a possible outside influence effect your vote?
All of the people I was able to ask said they had decided long ago who they would vote for, so many didn’t even watch the news. Given this simple experiment, why are they now holding signs if it had no effect on their votes?
It’s baffling and sad to realize how ignorant the people in my small survey were. But now Russia is the enemy for some reason. I suppose the answer is simply ‘look out’ rather than ‘look within’. So much confidence in the blame game, and yet so little facts to back the claims up. So, the media or whoever can create a postulate and hammer it home incessantly becomes assumed as a baseline fact, so people then drift off in their own paths and fantasies because examining the postulate is too difficult, especially for those who seldom read alternate sites with alternate opinions. What a distressing mess of ignorance which I haven’t witnessed in a long time.
Podesta’s emails show he created this “attack Trump using Russia” ploy in the summer of 2015…the lie then moved to Obama and his “Intelligence” hacks Clapper, Brennan and Comey….It came from Podesta and the DNC though as shown in Podesta’s leaked email–the emails show how incredibly conniving Clinton et al are thus no one is talking about them…just the lie they came up with to discredit Trump…It helps when the DNC has relatives in all the networks, I saw a list of them recently and it was amazing how many are directly linked to Obama’s Administration etc. not hard to figure out why the corporate press is so wildly unfair they are literally sleeping with one side only….
Or the pillows were properly fluffed and padded with shekels and dollars,in Hillorys case, so sleeping came easier to some. You’re right with respect to this election. As I was popping around on news sources AOL had a chart on the day of the election showing Clinton ahead by 80%. It was an incredible misuse of the data around the country, but one shouldn’t be shocked anymore I suppose. My point was more, why are these people carrying signs saying ” Russia is the enemy” when none of them read Podesta nor the DNC leaks? Is it as simple as lemmings not knowing where the cliff is?
I think the majority of Americans keep up on their local news and whether, then after that they simply drift off on to the peripheral of sounds bits and pundit chatter to create their own political arguments of the day. Like knowing a lot even though you know nothing,
I noticed a severe ramping up of anti-Russian propaganda during the 2010 Winter Olympics. The mocking and vilification of Putin was relentless throughout social media, in the corporate news media, and even on good old Bob Costas’s nightly Olympics wrap-up segments. Relentless. (I was so taken aback to see a never ending flood of Facebook posts mocking and laughing at Putin from people I had previously thought intelligent. They were having a field day and enjoying themselves immensely… and totally primed to provide the “correct” response to the current anti-Russian propaganda.)
Russian manipulation might not be correct, but what the President promised before election and failed is the biggest irony. Which President in our history had his son-in-law his advisors his daughter look into the changing environment and his son-in-law asking a 4400 million loan from a Russian Bank. just like his father ‘s faulty practices in New Jersey and spending time in a correctional facility.
Do you think all this is Kosher because Trump is the most inexperienced and unstable President of our country?
A. Razzi
– Notice that the conversation is all about if Russia hacked or not……We are not talking about the DIRT that was in the e-mails……….and how bad the actions are of the people doing election campaigns in the US…….We are not talking about how the DNC “hacked” the primaries of the Democratic Part to favor one contender over the other which is a proven FACT!!! B.S. (the other contender of the Democrats) even did not put up a fight for his rights. Instead, he lined up like a sheep dog behind the contender who defeated him by the CHEATING leaders of the DNC. Remember the SUPER DELEGATES stuff?! Is that not a hacking of elections?! Boy, and, Bill Clinton sent his henchmen to Russia in 1996 to “HACK” the elections there for the benefit of Yeltsin………..That is also a proven FACT…
As to “evidence”, well, remember that sunny day in November of 2001?? The American Society prefers “fiction” that feels good………..
Meant September of 2001 (eleventh day of September)…………..
And considering the number of people(repubs and Dems alike) that cannot tolerate Killary and her abject corruptions and have every reason to investigate her Known crimes….it is extraordinary that NO ONE is doing an investigation…NO ONE….Is it because they are all dirty in their own office? is the the corruption so widespread that no member of the government dares lift a finger?
Yes.
Podesta’s emails show that in 2015 he invented this whole “Russia did it” propaganda against Trump because of Trump calling for better relations with Russia, it comes from Podesta, who is really a nasty piece of work if you look at his emails–“severe” consequences for a leaker to be made an example are stated among other things ignored by the corporate media — and that “create a Russia” problem for Trump email is right there that began it all, it was a lie then and it is a lie now but the constant replay by the corporate media that is just an arm of the DNC/Globalist gang is a psychological warfare tactic that has made people believe there is a “there there” when there is no collusion at all between Trump and Russia as to the leaked emails…–Podesta invented it, Obama then spread it with his “intelligence” hacks–the “17 Intelligence agencies agree…” has now been admitted to be a lie by Clapper, it was he, Brennan and Comey who “handpicked” the intelligence agency hacks who agreed with the joke/biased farce of an investigation Crowdstrike did when hired by the DNC where they came up with the “trail” to Russia that experts say any hacker, or intelligence agency (CIA) could have left….This is the “evidence” –laughable — but this is not about evidence it is about lynching Trump and starting a Cold War and maybe a hot one with Russia as the Neocons want….Look for it to come this summer by false flag and maybe we will see nukes fly (as the Russians have now stated they expect a USA First Strike and are preparing for it…), then all the idiots clapping for destroying Trump with this lie may finally wake up, or wake up in time to die….
The Republicans can’t be totally opposed to the hacking claims against Russia because it’s in their interests to demonize Russia/Putin too. They’re between a rock and a hard place by needing to support their party’s president of course.
The interactions of Trump and his campaign with Russia could be completely innocent, or they could be not so innocent. it doesn’t really matter when Russia is seen as the enemy, because of the demonization campaign. Therefore, even the most innocent interactions with the Russians can destroy Trump and the Republicans won’t have a lot of energy to stop it from happening. The demonization project is equally as important to them as is saving Trump’s a-s.
Too bad. The only hope of peaceful coexistence with Russia was Trump’s campaign speeches and now all that has been abandoned by Trump. Of course he didn’t understand what he was saying and obviously never meant any of it. Pulling out of Nato? Haw-haw-haw.
Do not be too hasty.
At great political expense Trump hosted Lavrov in the Oval Office. And for ~100 days he held off on the provocative incursions by the USN in the SCS. (Unfortunately he let one go through the other day – but he is clearly reluctant to do this.)
We will not know how much he can and will follow through on rapprochement until Russia-gate is put behind him – and this is why the neocons and neoliberalcons both now residing in the Dem Party are trying to keep Russia-gate going.
This site is one of the best for exposing Russia- gate for the dangerous enterprise that it is.
We should all be trying to get as many people as possible to read it – and to contribute to it.
It may have turned out that hosting Lavrov in the Oval office was an expense to Trump, but he wan’t aware it would be when he did it. And of course it shouldn’t have been of course, but Americans have lost track of that. The Dems are on a roll with the connecting Trump to Russia and the country’s foreign policy gives it wings.
Don G. – I wouldn’t believe the polls. Remember, they actually thought Hillary was going to win.
Impeachment of Trump will do nothing but remove him, but the oppressive neoliberal/neoconservative system that favors plutocrats such as Trump and oppresses the working class and the poor, which has continued for decades and was made worse by the neoliberal, globalization policies championed by the Bill Clinton administration and permanently put in place, will remain. Nothing less than a total reorganization of government, I mean total, to work for the common man and not just the professional elite, will change this system that is literally threatening life and our planet. It’s the system, not the figurehead of it. The choice of blaming Russia is part of the war machine package, and the US war machine is the biggest on Planet Earth.
Trying to lay all blame on trump and his supporters for the disaster that is the US Government is like blaming your crappy tires because your engine blew up and your car is ruined….
The end point of the authors of Russia-gate is to impeach Trump and put an end once and for all to his attempt to “get along with Russia.”
If Swanson is so appalled by Russia-gate, he should stop calling for impeachment “for the right reasons” as he does.
Trump’s individual policies can be opposed, like TrumpCare, but impeachment will put an end to the quest for Detente 2.0 since there is no other major political figure that champions such Detente with Russia – and China too if the truth be told.
Those who are clamoring for impeachment are de facto opponents of Detente and allies of the neocons and Deep State in this regard. And that, unfortunately, is David Swanson and many others like him.
How sad it is that these same people who are so worked-up over their candidate losing and want to blame it on “Russia”, don’t seem to care about the millions of lives lost because of their country’s phantasmagorical story of “bringing democracy” to the countries they destroy. It would be a joke if it weren’t so tragic.
This is exactly to the point.
Even Sadaam Hussein on his worst days wouldnt have wiped out 2 million souls across the greater middle east…But the US of A has…pretty glorious and honorable huh?
The majority of Democrats believe the Russian hacking claim, just like they believe that the US should be “taking out” Assad in Syria. If you argue otherwise with them, you’ll be labeled a Trump supporter, i.e. a traitor. So now we can see the face of the Democratic Party going forward.
Sadly, the arrogant fools have proved as gullible as the Tea Baggers they rightfully ridiculed not long ago. Rachel Maddow is the poster boy for what can happen to a mind hooked on propaganda.
Ha!
Shame on you! He’s a poster PERSON!
Isn’t there very much of the Emperor’s new clothes in the psychology and sociology of Russia gate?
It is equally absurd, and yet most people seem to believe in it.
It is about the conveniency of adopting the same ideas as everyone else, since they are likely correct and requires much less thinking, about the fear of deviating from the group and the dangerous isolation it may lead to.
It seems to be about exploiting these human traits in a setting where the boy’s exposing of the truth is not strong enough to gain acceptance.
People will say “we didn’t know what was going on”.
A lot of the faith comes from seeing it reported by newspapers and TV over and over again.
Absolutely. Last night I started seriously considering that the complete refusal of so many of my self-identified liberal friends, family, and colleagues to even listen to information that undermines the corporate media propaganda (let alone think about it) is, in the end, in the service of that age old human strategy for justifying lazy complicity in state perpetrated horrors: “but… we didn’t know!”
If the “Democratic Party” is going forward, it will not get far unless it changes its policies to address the people it allegedly wants to include as its supporters.
1. On Trump’s alleged ties to organized crime, either here, Russia, China, or anywhere, business and political connections to mafias are widespread. The CIA certainly used Mafia connections in the past and I certainly believe that continues today. If Clinton had won, the congressional GOP would be conducting a parallel investigation of her activities to this Democrat-run Trump one.
2. Agree with those who say the Seth Rich case warrants investigation and it’s unfortunate the family can’t handle it.
3. Agree with China’s economic success allied with Russia’s success under Putin and the Duma (even despite vengeful sanctions by Obama), as a threat to the US imperialists, who just keep printing money to fund their ongoing destruction of the Middle East (and now it looks like they’re going after Venezuela).
4. The continued drone of made-up political stories work well in this gossipy day and age, I would call the US a “tabloid nation”.
I have all the sympathy in the world for the Rich family, but never the less if it can be proven that our democracy was subverted due to the manipulation of votes, or the DNC sabotaging of the Sanders campaign, then an investigation is a must.
I also feel for the Rich family, because after losing their 27 year old son I’m sure they are living in fear of what could come next.
There is something moving within the bushes of this Seth Rich story, and this something in the bushes wants the Seth Rich story to go away. Whatever this creature is, it’s more than just the Rich family wanting some quiet closure.
“Sparing the family” was the excuse Jack Ruby used too. Comes right out of the standard playbook. Anybody seen Mike Morell’s latest interview with Charlie (hiccup) Rose? Sounds like they’re trying to come up with a reconstructed scenario to substitute for a lack of evidence. Fascinating! Why didn’t any of this come up when it mattered? Oh yeah…”national security”…how could I forget?
The Rose interview I found was 4/14/17 with Morell going on about N Korea and Kim Jung un, is that the interview? If not listen to that one, because Morell makes a good sales pitch for Raytheon.
F.G. you have been around long enough, and you certainly are intelligent enough, to recognize a cover up when you see one. Think about it this way, if a staffer who worked for you got murdered on their way home from a bar, wouldn’t you being the boss of this employee want to solve this poor persons murder? Why wouldn’t the DNC be front and center advocating, and using all their influences to catch this murderer? In fact, why wouldn’t you use your influence to push networks and papers to dig into this crime? This whole Seth Rich investigation thing smells, of cover up and purposely laid ignorance too boot.
Go to youtube and type in:
Michael Morell on Manchester bomber’s potential ISIS ties
It’s listed under the youtube channel: CBS This Morning, published on 24 May 2017
Starts at minute 2:43. He talks about Brennan’s testimony. Claims that Brennan “talked to his Russian counterpart” last summer regarding US Government concerns that Russia was “interfering in our elections, and told them to stop”. Charlie asked him what happened, and Mike says they didn’t stop. He adds, “The Obama administration clearly did nothing.” The implication is that they must have had “proof”, otherwise Brennan wouldn’t have contacted his “counterpart”. Mike is his usual obsequious self: an ultra goodie-two-shoes brown-noser. Charlie appears to have a hangover and a bad case of hemorrhoids, which gives him a look of concern. Hey – I’ve had a few hangovers myself, so I could forgive the guy if he wasn’t such a phony. But I don’t believe a word either one of them says.
Here is something by a guy I have been accused a couple of times as my looking like him. Enjoy 12 minutes of George Carlin.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XcK6SulOsVE
Joe I completely agree that the Seth Rich “story” is compelling, and much like “Oswald Did It”, it will never go away until it is thoroughly pursued. Plus, like Oswald, the full truth will ultimately become known. It is simply too important to be hidden.
F.G. Sanford, I also agree with your comment about Mike Morell, I can’t watch the man, he’s totally transparent…
Bob the Seth Rich story will stick with people like you and me forever, but already I’m meeting a bunch of people who have never even heard of poor Seth’s fate. I’m not going to hold my breath while waiting for any important news to develop regarding the Rich murder, and I hold even less hope that something will come of his computer. Although, Bob I’m not always right, let’s both hope my negativity is debunked.
I would think the Rich family would want to know who murdered their son and see them prosecuted. I would think that is how you get “closure.” If the DC police were ordered to not pursue an aggressive investigation as has been claimed, I would think the Rich family would be screaming it from the rooftops. Between the laptop and possible surveillance videos there’s got to be something out there worth pursuing. I hope this whole thing doesn’t just fade away.
Skip, I hear ya. I too would think the family would want to dig down and deep to get some answers, but is it not also conceivable that the Rich family was warned off? Stranger things have happened when dealing with the kind of thuggish brute’s as the Rich family is now up against. Imagine a representative of a very high up important person coming to you, and making threats against you and your family. I mean who would not hesitate to continue to find the murderer of your son, when this would put the rest of the family in jeopardy? Just ask Kathleen Willey.
Especially if they flash a double indemnity insurance claim for the families of loyal employees
I would think so too. For some reason the Rich family seems disapproving of the idea (conspiracy theory) that Seth would be involved in leaking to Assange, and have claimed that Seth was offered a job in the Clinton campaign shortly before his death.
“Something is approaching from the southwest. It is now quite close.” That would be monsters from the id, Robby, monsters from the id.
“Stop it, Robby! Don’t let it in! Kill it, Robby!”
Excellent comment. One thing Trump has right:
We are constantly being inundated with fake news. Last night at the end of the PBS snooze hour Judy Woodruff breathlessly warned of a “late-breaking” report about Jared Kushner’s “ties to Russia.” OMG check your refrigerators for Russian dressing everyone.
Nancy – yes, my little daughter was given a set of those little wooden Russian dolls. I’d better get rid of them fast! I used to think Woodruff was credible. I used to think Anderson Cooper was too, that he wouldn’t sit there and blatantly lie. I will never trust or watch them again.
And before that she ran a segment titled “Fear of Russia” about the Gotland (spelling ?) Islands.
She has become a Queen Bee of the Media and it seems that no one dares to call her out.
I used to carry a Russian language book with me on airplane trips, to study that beautiful old
(fairly stable since the 11th century !) language. But anymore, I would be nervous about putting
it in my carry on backpack. TSA might not allow me to board if they found it !
As absurd as it sounds, you are probably right.
Just heard on tonight’s national news that TSA at selected airports will start requiring passengers
to remove any and all books from their carry-ons for ‘inspection’. Definitely no Russian, or Arabic
script practice either for that matter . . .
Thank you Gregory for the link. Russian music (and musicians) are amazing. It has been my great
privilege to sing Russian Orthodox music with the Choir of the North. Here is a link to a wonderful
rendition of one of my favorite pieces — ‘Salvation is Created’ by Pavel Chesnikov. In the Eastern
Orthodox tradition, salvation is neither ‘earned’ or ‘granted’ by the Creator; rather, it is an ongoing
joint effort between God and Man, and vitally necessary for both. The entire text, based on Psalm
73 and set to a Kieven chant melody, is very simple and could become an anthem for our time:
“Salvation is created in the midst of the earth, o God. Alleluia”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqQc8YHB2og
The language does have a nice ring to it…love to listen to Maria Zacharova…the content is good too.
http://youtu.be/419lQljnS-0
Fools “rush in.”
Lets all be ready for some very cooked “secret intelligence” that finally shows up, proving Russia did it!!!
I think theyve been having problems getting this intelligence fabricated, and i think thats part of why this investigation is nearly a year old….
but im fairly sure that with all the false flag and false intelligence operations that have been done in recent years…we are going to get to see this one too…
There is too much of a serious agenda to provoke a war with Russia and’or Iran again…so i believe a false flag or false intelligence operation is soon to come…
regards
D
derek leisure – yes, they’re keeping the ball in the air for some reason. You’re probably right, they’ll fabricate something.
Between Sean Hannity swearing off of reporting on the Seth Rich investigation out of respect for the Rich family, to Hannity taking a sudden vacation, to Twitter canceling WND’s Twitter account over tweets regarding the Rich investigation, I’m more convinced than ever there is fire from where all that smoke is coming from.
Joe – exactly. “If you want to know who controls you, look at who you are not allowed to criticize.” Voltaire
Or in this case, “look at who you are not allowed to investigate”.
Clinton Foundation, the DNC leaks, Hillary’s private server, the erased emails, the destroyed hard drives, immunity handed out like candy, Crowdstrike, Comey, Seth Rich, Obama spying, Susan Rice unmasking, Benghazi, Libya.
I could go on and on. All investigation appears to be on one side, Trump and Russia. “The best defense is a good offense” is the old saying. “Oh, look over there, but don’t look here” is the game the elite are playing. What are they trying to hide?
Judging by the size of the offense, it must be a very big pile of corruption indeed.
Let’s have a look at Seth Rich’s laptop, shall we?
You think that will ever turn up with the hard drive intact? Last I heard, the DC police kept it. They probably stored it in the evidence room next to a powerful electromagnet, just like in “The Big Easy” when insiders wanted inconvenient evidence to disappear.
Just like Walter White and Jessie did in Breaking Bad, when they used the huge magnet inside their van to erase what was in their computer when it was confiscated inside the Police station. Yes, I too would suspect that by the time, if ever there is a time, that when the Seth Rich computer is ready for public consumption that little will show evidence of any Wikileaks correspondence. You got to hand it to the Clinton’s they certainly know how to get things done. Don’t take my saying that as my praising these Clinton’s as a sign of my approval, no my mentioning it is just the opposite of praise.
I am seriously wondering to how soon this Seth Rich story will disappear from any news agency, alternative or main stream. In time, when there is nothing left to report, what will keep the murder of young Seth in the news? Possibly sites such as this, but even this site may in time find not much new there to talk about. Although, just for the mere fact that there are those trying to suppress this investigation into Seth’s murder lends credence to there being something worthwhile there to investigate. By now backwardsevolution you and I should have come to that point where we should expect such mischievousness as that being the standard of how our government works.
It’s not clear to me why Trump does not fight back, although maybe his own Attorney General won’t take orders from him. Sessions could start plenty of investigations and should.
SteveK9 – I have wondered the same thing too. Hopefully Sessions is working hard behind the scenes on investigations, but maybe not. Could be he’s not listening to Trump, or could be Sessions is not getting cooperation from the FBI. I guess we’ll know in time. When Trump changed his tune re going after Hillary, maybe it was Sessions who said “no”, and maybe because he knows the evidence will have been either destroyed or the immunity handed out by Comey kind of put a lid on any investigation. We’ll have to keep our eyes and ears open on this.
About 15 years ago a retired secret service (formerly in Clinton White House linked the Clintons to numerous suspicious internal deaths surrounding the Clintons back to Arkansas. Seth Rich’s death was listed as “robbery gone wrong” but watch, jewelry, wallet cards and money were left behind. The ‘swamp’, I believe, covered this up so hard that Hannity was threatened who was investigating that trail.
This Russiagate is simply a politically motivated effort to weaken or depose Trump, that is powered by the deep state and the media and politicians under it’s control. All of that is perfectly clear, but how it will play out in our confused nation being torn apart by warring secret factions is anybody’s guess. Only time will tell. But there are already set in motion so many disastrous processes, more trouble for all of us is a certainty.
Mike, well said. ” . . . more trouble for all of us is a certainty”. I always think of it – there is not going to be happy ending. This insane Russian interference story has been playing nonstop 24/7 on the tube, and MSM for over six months now. In your home, waiting at the airport, waiting for your car to be fixed at the dealership , or any public place, you can not escape it – TV (CNN) is on; all you hear is Russia, Russia. The majority of the very gullible American Public has come to believe it. We are way past the Orwellian world now.
Mike K, here’s a few historical “election hacks” that our nation was directly responsible for…In 1966 we sent arms, advisors, and Green Berets to Guatemala to implement a COIN campaign, In 1968 Gen. José Alberto Medrano, CIA operative, organizes the ORDEN paramilitary force, it develops into El Salvador’s death squads, in 1972, the CIA provides covert financial support for Allende’s opponents in Chile, In 1973, military takes power in Uruguay, supported by U.S, in 1980, a right-wing junta takes over in El Salvador. U.S. begins massively supporting El Salvador, and assisting it’s military, in 1981, the CIA steps in to organize the contras in Nicaragua, in 1981, Gen. Torrijos of Panama is killed in a plane crash, hint: CIA involvement, due to Torrijos’ nationalism, so down his plane went, in 1983, U.S. troops take over Granada, it intervenes shortly after a coup has overthrown the previous, socialist leader, and in 1996, Washington battles global Communism by extending most-favored-nation trading status for China, and tightening the trade embargo on Castro’s Cuba.
There is no credible evidence to suggest Russia hacked anything. The DNC would only allow crowdstrike who got caught faking Russian hacking in Ukraine to examine their servers and they were paid to support the Democrats narrative after they were exposed for colluding with the media and interfering in their primary to nominate the one candidate who could lose to Trump, that is the only interference that has been proven and proving that fact is the interference the Russians are accused of without evidence. The default position given that the DNC is unwilling to prove their servers were breached is that the emails were leaked and a compelling mountain of circumstantial evidence all points directly to Seth Rich as the source of the leak, none of which defies logic or contradicts the proven facts while the same cannot be said of the Russian hacking bullshit. Being paid by the organization who blatantly rigged their primary for the only candidate Trump had a chance in hell of winning against is enough for me to doubt the legitimacy of crowdstrike’s report serving as evidence of a breach and when presented with an illogical theory supported by nothing else but the say so of liars, I will believe the logical theory that Seth Rich leaked those emails without involvement from Russia.
As dubious as the claim that Russian secret services are responsible for giving e-mails of the DNC and Podesta to Wikileaks are, they are at least something concrete that could be discussed. For instance, one could discuss why the DNC refused to let the FBI investigate its servers and instead used the services of Crowdstrike, a private company with political connections, and what remains of Crowdstrike’s allegations about Russian involvements after the think tank on whose quote their main claim was based on (about alleged common features of hacking at the DNC and hacking of Ukrainian military devices) was disputed by the authors of that original text disputed Crowdstrike’s claims. One could discuss the contradiction when, on one hand, it is claimed that the cyberattacks were so sophisticated that it must have been a state actor, but on the other hand, the main indicator of Russian involvement is something that would have been a very stupid mistake, if it really had been the deed of Russian secret agent, leaving Russian language settings and the name “Feliks Edmundovich” in the metadata.
The result would probably be that Russia would be one of many suspects (it is, of course, true that many people in Russia resented Hillary Clinton because of her aggressive anti-Russian rhetoric), but there are many others, and the explanation that an insider who was disgusted at the undemocratic behavior of the DNC in the primaries seems rather more plausible.
But with the constant stream of reports in the US media, such things are rarely discussed. The questionable attribution of the e-mail leaks to Russian secret services is rarely discussed, it is more often just taken as a given and used as a background for much more elusive allegations. From something relatively concrete, the media have moved on to something much more elusive, “collusion”. Mostly, it is not even clear what that should mean. There is a very wide range from giant conspiracy theories, according to which Russians had groomed Donald Trump for years and collected kompromat, when hardly anyone thought that Trump might ever become become a significant politician, to relatively harmless things like that some Russians tried to do a bit of lobbying in order to present their point of view to some people about whom they thought they might have some influence – something many other countries (the Gulf autocracies, Israel, but also many others) have done for many years and probably much more intensively.
The allegations are so vague that anything can serve as a pretext for a constant stream of media reports about suspicions. Any contact with Russians is deemed suspicious. Of course, if the circle of people around the Trump campaign is wide enough, there will inevitably be people who had contacts with Russians. A similar investigation could be made for the Clinton campaign, and there would also be many “connections” with Russia (some things are known, e.g. the connections of John Podesta’s brother with Russia, and Bill Clinton received far more money for speeches in Russia than Flynn, an investigation would certainly turn up more). And, of course, there is no rational reason for this single-minded focus on Russia (except perhaps a certain kind of anti-Russian xenophobia and the interest of those who want a new cold war), and if the investigation would lead to the discovery that both the Trump and the Clinton campaign had a large number of “connections” and “ties” to many countries, some of which are much less democratic, have a much worse human rights record than Russia and should be regarded as more worrying because they support extremist militias in other countries. So, the main result would probably be that in today’s world politically well-connected people often have contacts with people in more than one country.
I find it almost eerie how such elusive claims about “collusion” go around in the media without concrete claims about what this should be, the main thing is that there can be one report after the other in which the image of Russia as a dangerous enemy is reinforced. The main result seems to be a far-reaching movement of the media towards leaving evidence-based reporting, and another important consequence is that many important opportunities to criticize the Republican administration and majority in Concress based on concrete facts, statements and actions are missed.
Thank you for your common sense. Unfortunately, and clearly, the objective here is not to get to the truth, facts, evidence, but to obfuscate, allege, insinuate, sow seeds of doubt, “connect the dots”, etc, in order to create a mass hysteria. And that it’s working, on what are otherwise largely reasonable intelligent people is a testament to the power of our MSM propaganda.
Why do they do it?
First, they must explain Hillary’s loss.
Second, they must prevent a change in foreign policy that includes dealing with the Russians on Ukraine or Syria or Iran.
Third, they must reinvigorate NATO, which requires an enemy.
Fourth, they are afraid of China, can’t admit the problem with China, yet want to arm against China. So they arm “against Russia” instead.
It makes no sense? That really does not matter. The reasons make sense to them, even though every one of those four reasons is wrong.
As far as conspiracy theories go, there is far more evidence implicating Seth Rich as the leaker than there is the Russians being the hackers. If Rich is proven to be the leaker, then the Russian hacking story goes out the window. And TPTB can’t have that.
Precisely, I am surprised that David would bring up the Seth Rich case as having just a little evidence. While there isn’t much, there is more than there ever was in the “Russia hacked the election” fairy tale. Why would Julian Assange even know who Seth Rich was, let alone offer a $20,000 reward for information on his murder? Why would he say in that context that people risk their lives to get information to Wikileaks? Of course that is not evidence, but without an investigation there will never be any evidence for or against the possibility. Indeed, if Seth Rich was the leaker right before he was murdered, then the entire Russia hacked the election story falls apart. That is plenty of reason for authorities to make sure a real investigation into the Seth Rich murder never happens. If those same authorities want to put an end to this particular conspiracy theory, they had better release what information they have and ask the public for help by getting witnesses or others with some knowledge of what happened to come forward.
So he didn’t work with the Russian to hack the 2016 election, none the less, Donald Trump is a crook. This needs to be exposed.
Trump’s being a crook is a separate matter. No one is saying Trump isn’t a crook. What is a concern, is why is Russia being singled out in the way it is being singled out? Why aren’t all U.S. politicians along with all foreign government influences being discussed, or for that matter investigated? Hating Trump doesn’t necessarily mean you must hate Putin, or Russia. Not wanting to stoke the flames of war with Russia shouldn’t be taken to mean that you are wrapping your arms around Trump. If you pride yourself as being a critical thinker, then be a critical thinker when analyzing this Russia-Gate trash.
There again maybe you have separated the two, and I just had to say this. Peace!
I’m a third of a way through reading this, so read it with me.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/26/swamp-politics-trump-style-russiagate-diverts-from-the-real-white-house-scandals/
yes, it’s going to morph and “go there” when they realize that they cannot make a “hacking” case that nails anyone for anything … (see also whitewater) … It’s already started going there … I saw someone opining that Trump would be nailed for money laundering for the Russian mafia … which made me laugh since Trump’s “laundering” (like German cars made and sold in the USA and elsewhere) is actually one of those blind-eye things that “no one takes seriously” beyond imposing fines … (our biggest banks have been implicated repeatedly over the years with laundering drug cartel money ….)
America’s business is business… what shocking is just how rotten and corrupt to the core we are and out in the open practices are tolerated …
” Why is Russia being singled out in the way it is ?” Why, indeed, Joe? Good question. There are a few other countries being singled out, too. Could it be as simple as we’ve always been at war with Oceania? To have perpetual war means singling out perpetual enemies.
So much money to be made out of war. First the destruction, then the “creation” of a brand new state. We don’t do reconstruction anymore – just brand new states on blank slates. New states where there is no public ownership and all is in private hands: that provides a lot of work for the military/security arms of the war industry because oddly, it turns out the blank slate wasn’t blank at all and people who struggled for generations for a social democracy on Scandinavian lines don’t see a capitalist investor’s paradise as a fair substitute.
My question is, how do we break the circuit? How do we get through to people in the West that Oceania isn’t at war with us, that they want the same things we want: safe, secure, happy lives for themselves, their children and grandchildren along the lines of the 1948 UN Declaration Of Human Rights?
Kathy Heyne, the question over why we go to war against people who in their own way are not much different than ourselves, is a good question to ask. If only it were that simple to put people first over material gain, but the powers to be never seem to care much about who’s citizens die over who wins. It has been referenced probably to often, but Eisenhower’s January 17, 1961 farewell televised speech which warned us of the Military Industrial Complex, is by far one the best examples to what mindset drives our nation to war. Vietnam for instance was never about freeing a people from a terrible dictator, as much as it was about a bonanza for the MIC, and a tragic boondoggle for the American taxpayer. The Vietnamese Citizen along with the U.S. Soldiers who died in that winless war are what the Pentagon Statisticians call collateral damage…it doesn’t get much colder than that. Thanks for the reply Joe
That is it in a nutshell. Trump’s behaviour and even his fawning/seduction of the Jihadi Saudi regime, though deplorable, is not the key issue. The fact is, this disproven Russia story is a threat to survival and those who are propagating it in light of the provable facts debunking it, are criminals undeserving of any support in the future as proven enemies of the people no matter what future actions they take.
Yes, all we want is the truth!
then here is the truth. The media, Obama, and the dnc made the whole thing up as soon as Trump was nominated to use if he won. It actually was 1st mentioned in March 2016. There has never been any evidence, or intelligence (per John Brennan). and EVERYONE brought in front of Congress admits there is no evidence, yet the media keeps taking every story and reporting it as if it is fact. EVERY new story is made up by the media. The people that colluded with the Russians is hiliary Clinton and barack obama when they gave the Rusians enough uranium for hundreds of bombs…And when obama to Medvedev, ” Tell Vlad I will have more flexibility after the election” BTW, an election he would have lost if there were no voter fraud.( and before you answer, IT IS a proven fact, 7 million dead people voted for obama in 2012). What the media is doing ios anything it can to try and make Trump illegitimate and make sure NO ONE like him ever tries to disrupt Washington again. If you people that believe this horse shit would think for yourselves and realize what is really going on, you would get firmly behind him and assist him in getting rid of what our government has become and put it back in the hands of the people like he wants too.
Exactly, and the media knows people can’t separate.
Here in Germany it is not better, they are like a little dog on a leesh yapping at Putin’s evil hack-machine, and in the background (actually wide in the open) the top floor of the US embassy is fully equipped to surveil the chancellors office and everyrhing else of importance. Everybody knows it and yet is totally on the same bandwaggon against Putin, even calling for tougher sanctions (that only lose german jobs). German news outlets have at least one piece on Putin a day, exclusively negative. No quotes, no translations. I feel I’m surrounded by morons, even smart friends of mine are drinking this koolaid. It’s so sad to see.
As mentioned above there is Israel, and there was the China scandals of the Clintons, not to mentions the global bribing of the Clinton Foundation. The US is systemically corrupt and many foreign countries have taken advantage of that fact. Since Russia has some of the richest oligarchs in the world, and Putin is their CEO, it must be presumed that Russia is in on this same game. But this is no reason to single out Russians over the global corruption to which the plutocracy legalized by the Supreme Court has exposed the US.
Trump has a history of ties with the American Mafia, the Russian Mafia, and Drug Cartels. I’d like to see these ties investigated. Especially in light of the fact that the President is still pushing his brand by refusing to put his liquidated assets in a blind trust.
President Trump is ripe for exploitation by criminal forces.
Is that a fact?
If Putin were to be found that he once had business relations with an American mobster would you feel that Russia would have every right to saber rattle against the U.S. Government and it’s people?
“If Putin were to be found that he once had business relations with an American mobster would you feel that Russia would have every right to saber rattle against the U.S. Government and it’s people?”
No, and that doesn’t make the least bit of sense.
I’m saying turn the tables around….then how would we feel.
No need of course to investigate the TRULY known fact that Israel constantly influences US policies in all sorts of ways including financial and business links, bribing and threatening US Congress members, spying..
Paul Findley They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel’s Lobby. page 114:
In 1960 “Kennedy had gone to dinner with a small group of wealthy and prominent Jews in New York. An episode of the evening trouble him deeply. Describing it to Bartlett as an ‘amazing experience,” he said one of those at the dinner party – he did not identify him by name – told him he knew his campaign was in financial difficulty and, speaking for the group, offered ‘to help and help significantly’ if Kennedy as president ‘would allow them to set the course of Middle East policy over the next four years.’ It was an astounding proposition.”
yes. those question should have been asked (and many answers provided, because there are and were Trump experts) before he was ever made the nominee … I’m growing more concerned about the “conspiracy of complicity” that allowed Trump to “win” the nomination … and Clinton, it should be remembered, with the media was part of that …legitimization of Trump as a “serious contender” …
The media did the same for unqualified GWB against the oh-so-boring but eminently qualified Gore (who took a strategic hard swing rightward during his uninspired campaign — I voted for Nader)
your the exact idiot the writer is talking too…There are NO substantiation that Trump has ever met any of the people you mention, never has been. and you have to be a special kind of stupid to think he could be exploited…he’s a multi BILLIONAIRE!!! you certainly can’t do it with money…..and if what you said was true, he would already have been exploited….what do you think his stance on immigration or the wall along the border, if he was in bed with the “Drug Cartels” ……did you think at all before you wrote???
Darrin, you need to lay off the cheap drugs. You are ripe for exploitation by money hungry psychologists.. Just dare to say no to those cute little pills they offer you. They do not really do not lead to sanity.
They’ll have to get past the CIA first.
Rychiak. Russia could not have hacked USA election. Every state has a variance of enumerating votes : Electronic, digital, paper, computers and committees counting to verify. The press without proof is keeping the fake news afloat. HRC lost the election because middle America (Trump took 30 states to 20 for Clinton) simply didn’t want another weak socialist after Obama. They wanted a business person not a tainted uncharismatic politician.