Extraordinary events last week have called into question the future of the post-war Western alliance. With Scott Ritter, Ray McGovern and Patrick Lawrence. Watch the replay.
A rapid series of events over just the past few days has some political analysts saying the 80-year, U.S.-dominated Western alliance is crumbling under the force of a radical break by the new Trump administration with the decades-old Atlantic consensus after just three weeks in office.
A phone call between the U.S. and Russian presidents, a remark by Trump to cut military spending by half, an address at NATO HQ by the new U.S. secretary of defense, a provocative speech by the U.S. vice president at the Munich Security Conference, the beginning of U.S.-Russia peace talks without Ukraine or Europe and U.S.-Russian discussions on lifting sanctions this week has left the Western World spinning. Is the Post-War Alliance Doomed? Is the West Dead?
Guests: Scott Ritter, Ray McGovern, Patrick Lawrence. Hosts: Joe Lauria and Elizabeth Vos. Producer: Cathy Vogan. 3hrs 15m
Aired 8 PM EST Sunday.
I am no fan or so of Trump. However, the decision to end Russian isolation is -in my opinion, is commendable. As often said, a journey of a thousand miles begins with taking a first step -Mao Zedong… With a profound interest in international relations, nations talking to each other helps to lessen the tragedies of war, and any effort to save lives is what should matter most. As such, we can only hope that the current approach leads to greater outcomes as we face the future ahead….
I am not about to criticize this three hour expose’. Especially considering the topics involved and the time I have had to digest it. Which, of course, assumes I’m capable and I have serious doubts about that.
I respect Scott and his knowledge. I agree avoiding nuclear war or a nuclear conflagration of any source is something to truly be joyous about. The same can be and has been said about revolutions. Especially in the absence of any conscious awareness of the reality of revolution.
Scott Ritter is a Marine, and a seasoned intelligence expert who lives with the reality of life and death. I can accept his thoughts in the context provided here.
My reality is burdened with feelings of pity for those who suffer the deadly negative results of revolution. Such is life.
Americans have a debt to the worlds society to pay as I see it. The cost or punishment for ignoring the blood letting this country has engaged in for the last eighty years. The cost to our society for being irresponsible, for not bringing our government to heel. The reality of the failure of “We the people” , “For the People by the People, of The People.”
Do Americans really expect to get a free pass from the world’s population for engaging in the behavior of embracing the title of being ‘Exceptional’ bestowed upon us by our corrupt leadership.
Unless Americans, starting at this moment, respond to our Authoritarian faux leadership immediately, as a cynical, pragmatic, realist I see little hope of advancement toward a peaceful life in the near future here in the Good Ole U.S. of A..
This country ‘could’ do it given the strength and focus needed, I simply do not see it happening at this point in history. Maybe in the middle nineteen sixties, not now.
I hope to hell I’m proven wrong.
Will we become revolutionaries or be reduced to the fodder that comes with revolt? Is this our future? What shall the will of “We the People” be?
It is “Pay Back Time” kids! Ready or not!
I think Ritter’s analysis of Trump and Gaza is spot on. Scott has been able to transcend TDS, avoid jumping to conclusions, and look at a complex set of facts objectively and rationally. It’s turning out that Trump is not as simple minded as the Deep State has been advertising.
NO remarks on Trump’s threats to conquer Canada, Greenland, and who knows what else. Maybe China! I cannot believe his media pals would not censor dissent from Trump Inmperialism.
Re Trump Revolution, real revolutions (like in France, Russia, Mexico) are usually violent and often kill those who started them. Will Trump and Musk get to meet the National Razor?
I cannot share Ritter’s optimism about a Trump Revolution. I won’t miss NED but I can’t believe that robber barons like Trump and Musk will do me any good. Nor am I convinced that the Constant Warfare State is gone. Maybe China will replace Russia as the cosmic Bad Guy. I know that it bothers a lot of people in the US that Chinese people are prospeing, Their government is not submissive, in the way Japan’s is.
Did anyone else catch Roger Waters’ heartfelt speech to the UNSC, yesterday 2/17/25.
It was truly beautiful.
All members were deservedly spellbound!
Thank you!
I’m just not buying Ritter’s frankly fanboyish predictions about Trump. It seems to be a case of overly excited projection to me. People droned on and on about this Machiavellian 4D chess nonsense in his previous administration and his supposed awesome intellect didn’t pan out that time. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.
I hope you’re right, Scott. I love what you’re saying. To my amazement I’m coming around myself.
(Copied from a comment on another article, but more pertinent here) The liberal authoritarian apparatus and related destructive and self-serving structures of government are not the Trump administration’s targets..other than objects of petty revenge…: they are in the way and are like diseased trees in a forest fire: usefully destroyed, but of little consequence to the conflagration. The fire deserves no credit for the removal of the disease, cannot be a justification for the fire and delivers uncontrollable ruin in the immediate with (here the analogy fails) no reasonable expectation of desirable recovery. Try as I might, I can find no rationalizing amelioration of our present moment.
…….Scott Ritter’s offering essentially the same metaphor of forest fire, but in his seeing, the destruction is necessary for the revolution to produce a new and better geopolitical world. My normal general agreement, or at least deep consideration of his views, is void here: the vastness and thoroughness of the destruction of (yes, often corrupt) political and social systems, seems to me, more like inviting an extinction event than a resetting to a more rational world.
Rewriting Trump as a witting or unwitting creator of necessary chaos to remake the world for the better appears no different than the expectations of the ‘end times’ Christian fanatics willing (desiring!) to destroy the world for their place in their heaven.
The cultural addiction to religious warfare for control of the the world for the fictitious mythology of god given right is not ending. All of Supreme Court is ready to remove all vestiges of progressive western culture for a medieval society versus secular rule. The return to rule by defamation of character and witch hunts for mass hysteria is has a 2000 year background of deceptive covert cultural dominance.
Ritter is difficult to listem to. He makes too radical statements, simply assertions. Significsntly no menton was made about Trump’s actions with respect to Israel. I believe that we shall have to await the next few days or weeks to truly know what the new Europe will be. Also, he overtalks his points, over emotes. His prediction for a nuclear war is hard to believe. The future will always be unpredictoble.
I hope the war will be over, And the wish to weaken Russia by the USA disappears.
The last hour of the webcast is entirely about Gaza and Israel. He did not predict a nuclear war, he warned about how dangerously close we were to one.
Whatever else Trump is, he is not a neocon. That has been his salient difference since defeating the Democratic neocon queen HRC in 2016. I have since that time felt that that difference was of existential importance but I am stunned at how important it is turning out to be.
Like trying to thread a needle in a hurricane, humanity is and will be trying to thread the needle of survival over the next 5 to 10 years in particular. Just a couple of weeks ago, it did not seem like we would make it even this far. Most people seem blissfully unaware of that. Sometimes hope is the only strategy you’ve got.
RussiaGate: Yes, has been exposed, but a lot has been left in the wake. Well said Patrick Lawrence.
Explicitly?: The MEDIA and the ELITES are continuing the narrative, and there are MANY people I know, who tell me Russia AND China are planning to take over the world. I know different because I read and listen to sources like CN, but many, many people only get their information from feeds on their cell phones, or other main stream corporate media sources.
The European AND the US ELiTES (for lack of a better word) are continuing the anti narratives, and people believe it wholesale.
And while these same people believe that Russia and China are the enemies, they also have said NOTHING about the fact that the WORKING CLASS and POOR have been cancelled from the narrative AND no policies, laws, initiatiaves or any other efforts have been put on the table to make our lives better.
I am a US citizen and emigreed to Portugal 3 years ago. I see the geopolitical scene from both sides of the Big Pond.
Well said. The bourgeois middle class has forgotten about the proletariat, as has most of the working class to be honest.
Is Scott saying that Trump is going to “control the narrative” by employing censorship done by X? If so, does Scott approve this censorship? I hope not.
Please! Can it really be true? Finally, after al this time? An old song, reportedly written by blacklisted socialists, comes to mind ….. “Ding dong, the witch is dead! The wicked witch is DEAD!”
Ritter recently stated (on CN?) that Netanyahou would be gone before Trump took office. And, if memory serves, he was one of a number of pundits who predicted Russia would not invade Ukraine. (He also states here that he voted for Trump, a climate change denier, even though climate change makes all other issues pale in comparison). So while Ritter brings much experience to the debate, his effusive and frankly over-the-top predictions need to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.
i had a few laughs with Ray McGovern too. especially when Scott Ritter was telling it like it is about the EU.
what a bunch of idiots the leaders of this conglomerate are. it was a great 3 hours well spent.
thankyou all for your insighful analysis of this very interesting time in which we are living.
Have we not been set to slowly boiling alive?
Do we still have life enough in us to jump out, before we all succumb to the so-called experiments of the life sciences, with biotechnology today being in the forefront?
NATO can be abolished AND the Military Industrial Complex can remain, It may be scaled down, less bases across the world, nuclear weapons restricted via agreements, stopping the weapons sales.
There is no reason EUROPE needs to create a European War Machine Alliance. Europe can become a diplomatic alliance and create peaceful relationships in the world.
Russia is not an enemy. China is not an enemy. Those are FALSE narritives. Neither are security threats to the world. Are they economic threats? ONLY if the US continues to finanacialize the economy and allow the Rentier class to reign at the top.
Calling trump “a revolutionary” is a bit misguided. And considering some of our great American (and foreign born) revolutionaries, it’s a slap in the face from a man who I would assume still cashes military checks (hopefully I’m wrong with that assumption). Trump’s narcissism, racism, predatory chauvinism, opportunism, tactics of coercion and bullying, and general contempt for all beings void of capital is in no way revolutionary to this country or the world.
Mr Ritter’s philosophy of “the ends justify the means” (overlooking musk for what he can provide) is the same rationale which maintains our MIC, continues to fill our for-profit prisons, and continues to turn the slave mill here in America and abroad. This philosophy is also void of any revolutionary qualities.
Aren’t we splitting hairs while Rome itself is burning to the ground!?
Does Scott Ritter recognize that the “Real America” of the past constitutional dream, he refers to is de facto the dictatorial, totalitarian technocratic state now in the process of being birthed, delivered by the technocrat-in-chief, Elon Musk.
Please see Counterpunch Magazine (2/17/25) article by
Tom Valovic, for an explosive additive to this expansive, yet actionably futile conversation:
Elon Musk has begun the Institution of a global plutocratic Technocracy, under the auspices and willful participation of King Donald.
I understand Scott Ritter’s glee at least some of the monsters are being brought down. And it’s a disgrace that the only people defending the Constitution on free speech are right wing libertarians. But applauding what you correctly name as a plutocratic technocracy makes my skin crawl.
One of my mentors was Dr. Ed Wenk, who led the creation of the Office of Technology Assessment for Congress, was an adviser to Presidents on science issues, and created the Social Management of Technology program at the U of WA. Even though primarily an engineer, he was a product of the New Deal. Therefore very concerned about which technologies should be pursued and who controls those decisions. He was adamant issues that affect our lives should be decided as democratically as possible, with the common good first and foremost.
Because of the oligarchic neolib takeover of the D party, such programs eventually disappeared. The Rs are clearly plutocratic. Add the further horror of the rise of the smug, immature tech bros, so sure of their own superiority and the inferiority of us the majority working class peasants. What we want or need is irrelevant to the Best and the Brightest.
I think Scott used forms of that word, “dictator, dictatorship,” several times and did say that he finds it frightening. He stated, in so many words, that the reason he’s so elated is not because extra-constitutional, – real estate tycoon as President – techniques are being employed, but because we avoided a nuclear holocaust.
A big concern of mine now, which I hope will be addressed soon in another discussion, maybe including Brian Berletic, if he’s available, is, assuming, Scott’s assessment is true that they are withdrawing resources from other areas because they want to focus on China, what sort of horrible mischief are they going to try to scare up over there with that nuclear super-power that they need all the US resources available?
Is the West Dead?
The West is indeed dead from the most important perspective: Morality, UNLESS it either a) provides concrete unassailable evidence to prove there were “40 Babies Beheaded!!!” on October 7, 2023, or b) confesses with sincere remorse that the 40 Babies Beheaded!!! report was in reality, arguably, the most despicable and offensive worldwide military-intelligence-media psychological operation, deception and/or lie ever (thus far, successfully) attempted, – in this instance, solely for the criminally insane purpose of legitimizing mass murder genocide.
well said Jerry. morally dead. and guilty of genocide.
may be offpoint ?
AI Overview
If you’re looking for schools similar to the former School of the Americas (now the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation), consider institutions like the Royal Military College of Canada or the École Polytechnique in Paris, which are also highly respected military academies
The remaing skeletons or dissolution of agencies happening now / graduates
Watch with careful eye like a bad cop finds employ elsewhere down the street / a renamed euphamism ?
Such as
The shingle now hung outside the door will not read
” The advanced training school ” for ” The harbingers of bad faith ”
Have a drink of ” Sneaky Pete ” made from sour grapes
Sweet as ” Mamas Milk ” the claim
I watched
If T fails Repub party fails also next election ?
He may look at his own age plus hopes for Barron , I think Barron wants to be accepted by his generation
and does understand that the internet has value to interact with common folk and not be secluded
A different generation than Dad had . it opens doors ?
Musk exposes his son as well .
Scott referenced “Brave New World ”
Those boys are part of it . Barron is in the tween boy and man .
I dont agree with all Trump does but keep open mind .
The alternative is ?
I want the best outcome , ears eyes open , time actions result will spell history legacy for the new generation .
Hope is real , we need some reliance and those that come behind will feel see and live to witness and carry glory or burden .
Trump n Musk need to hear this , they are the examples the boys look to .
I know . Pride of fathers , imitatation is the highest form of flattery .
Give them something to brag about .
Barron sings and honors his teachers , dont let him lose that but grow to be a teacher as well !
I wish I could live to see that but , one life was ordered yet would like two .
Until next time , the curtain slowly closes on us all .