WATCH THE REPLAY: CN Live! With Nancy Hollander, Margaret Kimberley, Ed Botowsky and Ray McGovern

Chelsea Manning’s lawyer gave an update on the imprisoned whistleblower; Margaret Kimberly spoke on the dangerous mix of nationalism and racism and the Seth Rich controversy was dissected on the 3rd episode of CN Live!

On Episode 3 of CN Live! we spoke with Chelsea Manning’s lead attorney, Nancy Hollander; Margaret Kimberley, editor and columnist at the Black Agenda Report, on the dangerous mix of racism and nationalism;  Ed Butowsky on the ongoing Seth Rich controversy and retired CIA analyst Ray McGovern analyzed the Rich story and Robert Mueller’s testimony to Congress.

Watch the replay here:

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65 comments for “WATCH THE REPLAY: CN Live! With Nancy Hollander, Margaret Kimberley, Ed Botowsky and Ray McGovern

  1. TK
    August 7, 2019 at 23:01

    8/07/19 Butowsky lawsuit against NPR and journalist David Folkenflik given the green light.

    I think it was Joe Lauria in one of the podcasts who said that the reality of Russiagate seems to be filtering down into the courts and so it seems to be here. The judge is an Obama appointee. This ruling bodes well for his other lawsuits and I’ve noticed other journalists involved with smearing Ed are on edge tonight.

  2. John Drake
    August 4, 2019 at 23:58

    Wow, this format putting on what is basically as investigative news cast adds superbly to CN’s narrative; particularly as it is a discussion not a presentation.
    I have always wondered why Craig Murray’s claim to have passed data to Wikileaks from an undisclosed DNC person, who he met in the woods by American University, very spooky; has not gotten more attention. Of course, he apparently did not know the content of the medium he was given, but one could easily guess. The fact that there were two leaks and his was only one gives a little clarity; but I would like to know more. As he was probably the first to squash the hack theory.

  3. Lala
    August 1, 2019 at 08:40

    The only thing I took from Butowsky interview is that Trump’s password is “MAGA”

  4. Tom Earls
    July 30, 2019 at 10:29

    I grew impatient with the extended intro. Sort to have missed the show.

  5. July 29, 2019 at 21:53

    Thank you Elizabeth and Joe. You are truly carrying on in the tradition of Bob Perry, digging out the facts and following them where ever they lead. It is amazing to me how many so called progressives and socialist have swallowed the Russia gate none sense. At first I attributed it to a knee jerk anti-trump reaction but I’ve come to see that quite a few progressive, left of center journalists have allowed themselves to become, wittingly or unwittingly, tools of state sponsored misinformation. Corn and Isikoff are just two examples.

  6. hetro
    July 29, 2019 at 20:28

    I would like to add a comment on Episode 1 Live. These discussions are excellent in the way they facilitate, very rapidly, information and perspectives. I see this as an advance to just commentary to articles, and a way of enlarging the discussion community. What particularly struck me in Episode 1 was a continuing theme on the suppression of information vs. chances of “democracy.”

    Connected and emphasized, particularly via Aaron Mate, and also by guest George (?), was discussion of how the populace is being brainwashed. The UN Rapporteur also emphasized this point. Key to what’s going on is indeed this brainwashing, which is the basic underlying purpose of the Russia-gate collusion story. And the purpose of demonizing Assange. We notice how crimes are being ignored, such as Hillary’s Clinton’s robbery of the DNC nomination and problems with her Foundation, plus outright fraud here in this Russia-gate delusion.

    I recommend we all take a look back at the Espionage Act and its language back in 1918 or 1917. That language makes it clear that in times of emergency (and how might that be defined in today’s politics, or fraudulently cooked up?) anything critical of the nation and its government is considered grounds for imprisonment. We then have people of that time, as with Eugene Debs, imprisoned for lengthy periods. In short, what we seem to be looking at is a systematic development toward more authoritarianism/fascist repression.

    Our hope, then, is to enlarge the number of people aware of what’s going on in this ultimate erosion of “democracy,” which by the way, we no longer have. Sufficiently informed we may have a chance, and there appears to be a vigorous and ribald Left, and I don’t mean central-rightists and thugs here. This is our current battleground. We no longer have democracy because the narrative is mostly controlled toward Establishment Politics. Hence the enormous importance of CN and these discussions.

    Again thank you for all the energy you’re putting into this.

  7. maxim
    July 29, 2019 at 17:13

    Love the music.

  8. Jim Buccellato
    July 29, 2019 at 16:30

    Unfortunately, Michael Isakoff was never challenged on his constant reference to the January 7, 2017 “assessment” as a product of the “Intelligence Community (IC)”. The MSM pushed this bogus Obama administration pronouncement constantly, and it took almost a year before they would finally admit to the lie but bury the admission in the static of Russia accusations! This so-called “IC” assessment was carried out by only three of the 17 agencies of the IC , “hand picked” analysts I would add of the FBI, NSA and CIA. I would also add, whenever you hear the term “hand picked” analysts, it should raise serious questions among any responsible journalist! I can assure you from HAVING BEEN THERE, many of the people assessing Iraq and Saddam Hussien’s activities in the run up to the Iraq war were ALSO hand-picked AND for a reason! Yes, Brennan, Clapper and all the others came up with the lame idea that these were the only three agencies with Russia equities and deep knowledge of the country. One would think the MSM and responsible journalists like Isakoff claims to be, would simply laugh at this type of assertion! Let’s see now – they claim to have tracked the interference to the GRU. Hmmm, GRU? Only the directorate of intelligence for Russia’s armed forces. So must assume DoD/DIA and each of our military services have no equities or knowledge of the GRU and Russia? And how about the State Department – no Russia equities or knowledge of the country? So when Isakoff claims no one challenged the so called IC estimate, it was simply because the majority of the IC, including those with long and deep knowledge and background of Russia and the GRU were never given the opportunity to do so!

  9. William H Warrick III MD
    July 29, 2019 at 14:13

    Podesta was not ‘hacked’, he was so stupid that his email password was “password” so he gave away his own emails to anyone who wanted to see them.

  10. Kat Swift
    July 28, 2019 at 17:09

    Why don’t you guys interview Kim Dotcom about what he knows about Seth Rich? He also made statements about the connection between Rich and Wikileaks. Dotcom, btw, is a German citizen being charged with copyright violation by the U.S. for his file sharing site, MegaUploads.

    • Marko
      July 29, 2019 at 15:47

      Stay tuned for this week’s episode of CN Live. Dotcom is scheduled to appear.

      I’d like to get Dotcom’s opinion on the possible role of John Mark Dougan , aka BadVolf. It seems plausible to me that he set up the DCLeaks website as he claimed , given his extensive history of creating other such whistleblower forums. He was another potential witness totally ignored by Mueller , as were Assange and associates like Craig Murray and Ellen Ratner , and Dotcom himself.

    • ML
      July 29, 2019 at 18:17

      CN will be doing that- a replay of an interview Joe Lauria did with Kim Dotcom on this Friday’s edition of CN Live! I am looking very forward to it! Thanks, Joe and Elizabeth. You two are a great team!

  11. jmg
    July 28, 2019 at 16:18

    “Chelsea Manning, WikiLeaks source for its most important publications including the Afghan War Diaries, the Iraq War Logs, and Cablegate, has spent 135 days now in Alexandria, Virginia, in jail because she’s refused on principle to appear before a grand jury, secret grand jury on imprisoned WikiLeaks publisher Julian Assange. Manning has lost her apartment as fines have now totaled $26,000. They are being levied at $1,000 a day.”
    — Elizabeth Vos, reporter and CN Live! co-host

    “I’ve not been aware of cases where people have been charged these extraordinary high fines . . . Before Julian Assange was charged with espionage they wanted Chelsea to testify about whatever she knew that would aid them in getting that indictment. They now have that indictment, they can’t use her grand jury testimony, another word, to shore up an indictment they already have. . . . perhaps trying to find a way to get her back in jail to serve more of her time . . . So I don’t know what else they want from her.”
    — Nancy Hollander, lead attorney for Chelsea Manning

    They quite clearly want to make an example of her, to discourage other whistleblowers from revealing classified government crimes that can’t be lawfully classified. From a previous article:

    “. . . executive order 13526, prohibiting classification of embarrassing or criminal information”.
    — Ray McGovern, former chair of National Intelligence Estimates

    So, why all this persecution? Whistleblowers are not mass murderers or torturers, they don’t destroy democracies or entire countries, that is to say they don’t commit these types of minor crimes that go unpunished. Whistleblowers commit a much more serious crime of truth against unlawful secrecy, because this secrecy is what gives the powerful their unlimited power.

    And that’s why so fundamental importance is being given to classification and secrecy, and why whistleblowers of classified crimes are being punished with prison or worse:

    “As you know, Julian Assange has been arrested and is now locked away in British custody. The US government wants to extradite him for the crime of revealig our crimes. . . . Zero people have been arrested for the collateral murders, yet Julian Assange has been arrested for revealing them.”
    — Lee Camp, Redacted Tonight’s host

    “Our sources take risks, and they become concerned to see things occurring like that . . . We don’t comment on our sources . . . because we have to understand how high the stakes are in the United States.”
    — Julian Assange, on the murder of alleged whistleblower Seth Rich

  12. incontinent reader
    July 28, 2019 at 13:19

    IMHO, I believe the key to the Rich family’s silence and denials is to protect their other son, Aaron, including from the same fate as Seth, and even may fear of retribution from the DNC- given that the FBI has done nothing to investigate, and may do nothing to protect Aaron. They may also be reluctant to be associated with anything that could be perceived as helping Trump.

    I’m also guessing that Isikoff is trying to discredit the claims that Seth Rich was the insider who passed on the DNC emails to Wikileaks in anticipation of the Butowsky/Clevenger suit and what their FOIA NSA request has already revealed, and what future FOIA requests and other discovery will reveal about the Rich murder.

    • jmg
      July 29, 2019 at 07:19

      incontinent reader wrote: “to protect their other son, Aaron”

      I would really let the family live in peace, including the brother, who already — in 2018 — filed a lawsuit vehemently denying unfounded statements about his involvement:

      “this lawsuit does not seek to stop Defendants from trafficking in Seth Rich conspiracy theories. This lawsuit seeks accountability for Defendants’ defamatory campaign against Aaron.”

      Seth’s brother did not work at DNC, that was Seth. It’s also highly unlikely that Seth, a Bernie Sanders supporter working on electoral and computer tasks at the Democratic National Committee, needed any computer help from his brother, busy with his own unrelated job at a defense contractor and living in a distant state.

      Surprisingly, it appears that all that past trouble about the brother came from a silly confusion over whether, some time ago, a person said “sons” or, most probably, “son’s”.

      So, small details can be important and all facts should be carefully verified before making statements, especially about private people such as family, that appear to be unrelated to a public matter. Of course, if there is no evidence, something can be likely, or unlikely like in this case, but we can’t really say that we know what happened.

      • incontinent reader
        July 29, 2019 at 17:17

        I’m basing it on the Butowsky allegations some of which have been independently corroborated. If you listened to and believe Butowsky’s interview with Joe Lauria and also what Butowsky taped of his conversation with Seymour Hersh, both sons were involved in the offer of DNC emails to Wikileaks, but for a price. I am not in a position to make a factual determination about any of this, and I wouldn’t want to be the one to cause more pain and suffering for Aaron Rich or his parents, but there is an open and unsolved murder with many conflicting statements by the parties, and a number of lawsuits which may or may not help resolve the murder and who passed on the DNC emails to Wikileaks. These all have serious political and legal consequences, and they should be thoroughly investigated.

        • jmg
          July 30, 2019 at 03:34

          incontinent reader wrote:
          > “I’m basing it on the Butowsky allegations”

          Ed Butowsky says that Ellen Ratner, and therefore Julian Assange, only mentioned Seth, never Aaron. He also says that Seth’s father mentioned — just once over the phone — the word “sons” or “boys”.

          In different interviews and documents, Butowsky has given different versions of that father’s sentence, because he admits he can’t remember the exact phrasing, but he understood that. So it all depends on a “s” once over the phone.

          > “and also what Butowsky taped of his conversation with Seymour Hersh”

          No, listen again to the recording. Sy Hersh’s investigation was an ongoing one, not written in stone. However, he never mentions the brother, he talks all the time about Seth.

          Some have been confused by mixing what Hersh said with what others added. You know, rumors change a lot after passing through a number of people.

          > “I wouldn’t want to be the one to cause more pain and suffering for Aaron Rich or his parents, but there is an open and unsolved murder with many conflicting statements by the parties”

          Aaron’s very detailed version — including also the attacks he suffered — is already here:

          If you read it, I think you will agree that the family doesn’t seem to know much more than the rest of us, and that Aaron, the brother living in Colorado, was too busy with his own defense related job, even when sometimes visiting D.C. for work matters, to be involved in anything Seth could be secretly doing as alleged whistleblower while working at the Democratic National Committee in Washington, D.C.

          Insisting on pressuring the family hasn’t brought anything good, on the contrary. That’s not the way. They just want to find out who murdered Seth, but the investigation seems to be effectively shut down.

          > “and a number of lawsuits”

          Yes, Ed Butowsky has filed a lawsuit on July 15 against the New York Times, Vox Media, Turner Broadcasting System, Anderson Cooper, Brad Bauman, etc. We’ll see.

        • jmg
          July 30, 2019 at 11:52

          incontinent reader: “. . . resolve the murder and who passed on the DNC emails to Wikileaks. These all have serious political and legal consequences, and they should be thoroughly investigated.”

          Of course. For example, the Rich family is naturally very eager to solve Seth’s murder, and asked for help:

          Fundraiser by Aaron Rich : Unsolved Murder of Seth Rich

          As it’s well known, for personal reasons they are only interested in the investigation of the murder and not of the leak that happened shortly before Seth’s death. However, some previous investigations appear to have found links between the two.

          So a true inquiry can’t be limited that way, it must find out, verify, and follow the facts wherever they lead. Always respecting their personal decisions, let’s hope they or others investigating this potentially crucial tragedy will eventually understand that.

  13. ML
    July 28, 2019 at 12:01

    Hi Joe and Elizabeth- well, it was another riveting show and I especially enjoyed your interview of Ed Butowsky, whom I thought was pretty credible, his upward and sideways glances aside. I don’t think this necessarily means someone is lying. He may have just been a little nervous and also trying to recall just what it was he wanted to say. I am looking forward to next Friday’s show with your interview of Kimdotcom. Thank you both. And to Margaret Kimberly, I read your website regularly. You and Glen Ford are stellar people with excellent writing. I am sorry for the recent loss of Mr. Bruce Dixon, who was also a person of great integrity. Thank you.

  14. Skip Scott
    July 28, 2019 at 09:56

    I am almost finished watching the Butowsky interview, and I am wondering if he has people willing to testify that Ellen Ratner also informed them that Julian Assange had named Seth Rich to her as the source for the DNC leaks. Butowsky said that he doesn’t have a paper trail or a recording of Ratner, so how is he going to corroborate that in court?

  15. geeyp
    July 28, 2019 at 02:45

    Really good shew. Yes, the FOIA was filed without thinking through the poss. response. It was given a generic answer used quite often and does not pinpoint a multi-listed request. It does only raise more questions and then you have to file another and the responses to these FOIA’s take a lot of time.

    • Tim Jones
      July 28, 2019 at 09:00

      If Seth Rich is shown through lawsuits that he was the source of the emails, wouldn’t that lead back to a possible hit by the DNC?

  16. Kelly Brother
    July 28, 2019 at 00:23

    Did I hear Butowsky say that Rubio, Bush and McCain were involved in conjuring the Steele dossier? News to me. Has anyone looked into that? Links?

  17. Tim Jones
    July 27, 2019 at 18:19

    Why wouldn’t the DNC’s Brad Bauman be subpoenaed in the Butowsky lawsuits?

    Brad Bauman comes from the DNC to control the the Rich families communication, means they are in fear that, especially, Mr. and Mrs might accidentally spill the beans.

  18. Gregory Herr
    July 27, 2019 at 18:16

    Good on Joe and Elizabeth for their journalistic focus on corroborating evidence with regard to each narrative. Special thanks to Ray for his sidebar into Allen Dulles, the Warren Commission, and the origins of the weaponization of the term “conspiracy theory”.

  19. hetro
    July 27, 2019 at 18:15

    Thanks for this excellent broadcast. That Margaret Kimberly and yourselves would *seriously* (big laugh from me and you all were smiling I know) talk about Hillary’s entering the 2020 election suggests how completely frazzled, divided, and clueless the Dims are at this time.

    • Ikallicrates
      July 29, 2019 at 11:38

      The MSM has been has been selling one faux progressive after another – even Joe “I’m the most progressive” Biden, which is really scraping the bottom of the barrel – and the election is still over a year away. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Hillary decided to run. You know she wants to.

      • ML
        July 29, 2019 at 18:42

        “You know she wants to.” Correct and I wonder if she knows how much we do NOT want her to!

  20. ranney
    July 27, 2019 at 17:44

    This was pretty interesting; especially the section on Seth Rich which I have been wondering about. The circumstances of his death never sounded like an ordinary mugging, and I have always believed that Assange, among other thing,s basically signaled that Rich was his source when he offered a reward for information on Rich’s murder.
    Watching the Butowsky interview, I kept wondering why he constantly looked up and to the right (and occasionally to the left) while speaking. I’ve been told that doing that can be indicative of lying, but I will say that all his other body language indicated a truth teller and I came away believing him. I wish someone (Joe Laurie?) would explain why Butowsky constantly looked up and to the right – was there a monitor hanging up and right of him that he was referencing? That was my guess, but it would really help if CN would tell us that, so we aren’t guessing at this very odd behavior. So an answer please,CN?

    • Skip Scott
      July 28, 2019 at 10:09

      I’m not certain, but I believe that looking up and to the side is indicative of someone trying to recall something, not to dissemble.

  21. Clark
    July 27, 2019 at 17:30

    More Weigel gems: (from a Twitter search of his handle plus “Br*d B*uman”)
    Here, he’s retweeted someone castigating WikiLeaks in 2016 for calling BB a DNC flack while praising the wonderfulness of BB:

    Elsewhere, Weigel put out BB’s comment on SR and how the conspiracy theories pain the family. Nowhere does he ever mention receiving testimony and saying he ran it past this same “Brad”. He has very little else to say other than tell people BB is not a DNC guy.

  22. robert e williamson jr
    July 27, 2019 at 17:02

    Ah, it feels so good to be so entralled by individuals who are speaking to meat of truth to power with such candor.

    Great stuff from everyone.

    Bob Perry would be thrilled I’m sure.

    Again thanks to all for caring.

    Now about time line that law enforcement and EMS emergency electronic communications and written reports would reveal about what happened with Seth after the police responded to shots fired notification.

    I see it as being entirely likely that NSA, FBI and DNC have brow beat the Rich family into clamming up about everything here. It is what they do every time they want a story to die or they cover something up. That Seth may have demanded pay, I believe is a red herring in the mix. If he was a smart kid he would nave known the story alone could have made him very wealthy.

    In addition the claim he did something for money covers that he may have done something because he was upset about the DNC conspiring to eliminate Bernie from the nomination.

    Truly great stuff here from CN.

  23. Clark
    July 27, 2019 at 16:02

    Butowsky and the journalist, who had to run things by “Brad”, the DNC crisis manager,… Butowsky dropped a bombshell if accurate. Looking around more, I’m wondering if this journalist wasn’t coordinating with the DNC on things Seth Rich from the beginning.
    What is definitely known is that he and his friends smeared Jimmy Dore, Aaron J. Mate, Michael Tracey, Mike Cernovich, Cassandra Fairbanks and many others for asking questions or showing any skepticism and never let on that he had any kind of role behind the scenes.

    When? Did the journalist really not say anything about corroboration?

    • Clark
      July 29, 2019 at 16:46

      cc: Jack Posobiec
      YouTube video that’s topic of this thread, go to 1:36:40, but entire Butowsky segment needs to be watched and please check out comments in this thread.
      DW coordinated from beginning with DNC to bury stories and smear anyone who tried looking into, providing testimony? Seems to have a relationship with Butowsky that was well established by the time Butowsky reached out to DW (Early 2017??? Butowsky doesn’t say. Lotta questions.)

      Two things DW might hit back with. Bauman was not a DNC guy; he went with this before on Twitter. And Seymour Hersh regrets saying anything, it was false. In the video, Joe Lauria brings up what he’s heard about Hersh’s feelings and it differs from Isikoff’s spin. DW has never written or publicly spoken about Hersh in relation to this despite personally talking to the very man who recorded Hersh, which was also kept secret.

  24. Jimmy g
    July 27, 2019 at 16:01

    “The fact that the United States has defined conditions that would legitimize the use of nuclear weapons against Iran should frighten all Americans. The fact that the current crisis could meet these conditions should alarm the entire world. Under normal circumstances, the American people could expect a rational president to walk away from any situation that needlessly invited the specter of nuclear war. That President Trump so easily invokes his powers amid critical international tensions should give us serious pause.”

    Bearing in mind the President Obama also stated that, in his “ And I mean what I say” speech made clear that no option was off the table.

  25. Mavis C.
    July 27, 2019 at 13:36

    Qs for Butowsky:
    When did his conversation with Weigel take place?
    Did Butowsky mention Hersh or Rattner? If so, what was his reaction?
    Did Weigel give more of an explanation for why he had to run it by “Brad”?
    Was he led Butowsky to Weigel?
    Did Weigel ever mention needing to fact check or corroborate his account with any of the people mentioned?

    It would be really good if Butowsky discussed his entire interaction with Weigel at length. Weigel has written voluminously about SR in articles and on Twitter, caustically, but never once mentioned his personal role, let alone saying Butowsky’s story would need to be okayed by a DNC PR flak.

  26. July 27, 2019 at 13:06

    1) Chelsea Manning is a hero and we should do another ‘go fund me’ to help her with her rising debt. She released information that the American people have a right to know about our corrupt government. Both Manning and Assange should be applauded for standing up to the deep state.
    2) This country has been racist (in the form of Slavery and Native American “relocation” and genocide) from the beginning and remains so today. It is disgraceful that we are such a bigoted nation and that our government and mainstream media support this disgusting behavior. Colin Kaepernick is a hero and people who think otherwise are simply following the ridiculous mainstream narrative that whites are somehow superior to those of color.
    3) We need to get over ‘Russiagate’ – this is a blatant lie perpetuated by the Clinton camp because she lost the election to the other sleeze-bag, Trump. The e-mails were leaked from within the DNC – NOT hacked by Russia.
    4) It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Hillary had Seth Rich murdered. Seth was in no way responsible for the election of Trump he was simply trying to expose the filth that is Hillary Clinton. It makes me sick that the murder investigation has been dropped…
    5) This country is really F***** Up…

    • ML
      July 29, 2019 at 18:40

      I share your disgust, Susan Leslie. Trump’s recent outrageously racist comments about “filth and vermin-infested” places etc, is fascist psychological rhetoric and is but a short trip to the evil of describing human beings as such and in need of extermination, as that is what you do when something is “infested” with “vermin.” He is a grievous, virulent cancer on society and the world. And Clinton’s prior description of people as “deplorables” also fits the bill with this type of evil-minded thinking. Shameful. Both of these sociopathic personalities need to look in their own mirrors, for they are what they attribute to others. Classic projection and not something the likes of them would ever recognize…

  27. Clark
    July 27, 2019 at 13:04

    This is especially for Elizabeth, but everyone…
    There was something very remarkable said by Butowsky and I strongly urge caution when dealing with this person he mentioned and taking a closer look at this: Butowsky says he spoke w/ “X” and “X” said he’d have to run it by “Brad”.

    X knows vastly more than he lets on about all the emails and the players/whistleblowers/sleuths and he monitors. It’s all about control of the narrative.

    • Marko
      July 27, 2019 at 15:27

      “X” being David Wiegel , a gatekeeper at the Washington Post.

  28. July 27, 2019 at 11:52

    Trump Taking New Moves With Russia and Turkey In Nuclear Weapons because Russia and America work further for next-level development in advanced Nuclear weapons

    Trump Taking New Moves With Russia and Turkey In Nuclear Weapons

    US President Donald Trump said he did not understand the hype around the situation with the launch of DPRK missiles, reports TASS.

    “They did not conduct a nuclear test. They actually did not test any other missiles except short-range missiles, that is, such things that a lot of other countries are experiencing, ”Trump said.

  29. Sharon Crawford
    July 27, 2019 at 07:02

    Elizabeth and Joe, thank you for bringing some much needed clarity to the subject of Seth Rich. Like always, Margaret and Ray were informative and a pleasure to hear from.

  30. Tim Jones
    July 27, 2019 at 06:11

    If the trail of Seth Rich’s death ever leads back to the DNC and an investigation develops, the damage to the Dems in an election cycle could be catastrophic.

  31. July 26, 2019 at 23:30

    I found it odd that Issakoff was bringing up Seth Rich now too.Seems a preemptive move now since Mueller was such a dud and people will be looking at the origin of the whole unsubstantiated conspiracy against Russia and Assange persecution.

    Time to blame Russians for the Seth Rich “ conspiracy “ that way if you even bring it up you are both a crackpot and Putin puppet.

    Well planned

    It now makes sense if Rich was looking for money that his parents would not want that to be public.

    Sad for everyone.

    • jmg
      July 27, 2019 at 14:34

      There are other versions about the whistleblower’s motivations:

      “Neither of [the leaks] came from the Russians. The source had legal access to the information. The documents came from inside leaks, not hacks. [The leaks were motivated by] disgust at the corruption of the Clinton Foundation and the tilting of the primary election playing field against Bernie Sanders.”
      — Former UK ambassador Craig Murray, who met the whistleblower in Washington, D.C.

      “#SethRich was a hero. I know that Seth Rich was involved in the DNC leak. . . . I communicated with [Seth Rich] on a number of topics including corruption and the influence of corporate money in politics. He wanted to change that from the inside.”
      — Internet entrepreneur and activist Kim Dotcom, who is now fighting extradition to the US

      And about the family’s concerns:

      “We talked about it. They don’t want their sons name to be associated with being the people or person responsible for getting Trump elected.”
      — Former Fox Business Network commentator Ed Butowsky, who tried to help the Rich family

      • July 27, 2019 at 16:57

        I had always assumed Rich was the leaker and was disgusted by the DNC cheating Sanders.I had never heard he wanted money before.It can certainly be that both possibilities are true, but there is an ick factor if money was involved.

  32. Jill
    July 26, 2019 at 21:30

    Mr. Butowsky’s interview seemed unfair to him and his lawyer. Before I go into why I say that, I first want to emphasize that I am very grateful that you did interview him (as well as MI). Many news organizations won’t touch the subject and it needs to be examined. Thank you for doing that.

    Regarding the NSA FOIA, you seem to fault his lawyer for requesting information regarding too many people. I think this is an unfair criticism of his attorney. His attorney is using the FOIA for his own purposes– to best represent his client in a legal matter. The needs of good representation are his duty to his client.

    As investigative reporters, the use of a FOIA has a very different purpose and would likely be structured very differently from one used in lawsuits to best represent a client. My feeling is that a member of the press should request the information for the press. It is not the lawyer’s job to structure the request except as it best serves his client.

    I think Ray McGovern really pulled things together very well. I am looking forward to further revelations and your interview with Kim Dotcom.

    It seems that Russigate is being flogged by the “liberal” press to keep hope alive in the Democratic base. This propaganda is necessary as so many parts of this story are falling apart right now. I am hoping that real good will come from the facts of this case. Thanks Mr. Butowsky. Give em’ heck!

    • Marko
      July 27, 2019 at 00:32

      “Regarding the NSA FOIA, you seem to fault his lawyer for requesting information regarding too many people. I think this is an unfair criticism of his attorney. His attorney is using the FOIA for his own purposes– to best represent his client in a legal matter. ”

      It’s not just CN that faults Clevenger for the flawed filing , it’s also Clevenger himself. When he got the FOIA response , he realized it raised more questions than it answered , and he re-filed separately for all of the Rich contacts so as to clarify who among them was associated with the withheld 32 pages.

    • Michael Keenan
      July 28, 2019 at 01:36

      If you notice it was the first FOIA response that mentioned more people were involved so the lawyer made a second request for that information too.

  33. July 26, 2019 at 18:34

    Your interview with Butowsky was great, but you should also have asked him about his claim in his recent court filing that, in an additional call with Hersh, Sy revealed that his FBI source regarding the examination of Seth’s computer was ANDY MCCABE! If top people in the FBI have been covering up conclusive evidence that Seth was the DNC leaker – so as to sustain the Russiagate hoax – heads should roll!

    Here are some reasonable grounds for suspecting that Seth indeed was the leaker:

    With respect to censorship at, my entire production there has been suspended without explanation:

    • Marko
      July 26, 2019 at 21:08

      Your censorship by Medium might one day be seen as a badge of merit. Lots of good researchers are being shut down because they’re examining topics that make the deep State nervous.

      BTW , I made a mistake in my reply to you below. The reason for refusing access to the 32 pages in the Clevenger FOIA was given , i.e. “… classified in accordance with Executive Order 13526. These documents meet the criteria for classification as set forth in Subparagraph © of Section 1.4 and remains classified TOP SECRET and SECRET.” Thus the material is likely quite revealing , rather than being of a more pedestrian nature.

      • July 27, 2019 at 14:21

        Thanks. Not likely then that these are just innocuous calls with his brother.

        I have the impression that Seth’s contact with Wikileaks was the late Gavin MacFayden – but sadly I can’t remember the source for that.

        • Marko
          July 27, 2019 at 15:24

          The bit about MacFadyen was in the Fox News article that was retracted. Here’s an archived version :

          • jmg
            July 27, 2019 at 17:59

            Marko, that’s a truly impressive report by award-winning investigative reporter Malia Zimmerman. A must-read. No wonder they fully censored it.

            For example, among the different mentioned sources are DC homicide detective Rod Wheeler, and an unnamed federal investigator:

            “A federal investigator who reviewed an FBI forensic report . . . detailing the contents Rich’s computer said he made contact with WikiLeaks through Gavin MacFadyen, a now-deceased American investigative reporter . . . ‘I have seen and read the emails between Seth Rich and WikiLeaks,’ the federal investigator told Fox News, . . . The revelation is consistent with the findings of Rod Wheeler, a former DC homicide detective . . . The federal investigator, who requested anonymity . . . The FBI’s national office declined to comment, but sources said the bureau provided cyber expertise to examine Rich’s computer.”

            The report also gives details such as:

            “Around 4:17 a.m., Rich was about a block from his home when Mulka, still on the phone with him, heard voices in the background. Rich reassured her that he was steps away from being at his front door and hung up.
            “Two minutes later, Rich was shot twice. . . .
            “Police also have refused to release security footage from a market on the corner of the crosswalk where Rich was killed. The footage, sources told Fox News, shows two people following Rich across the tiny crosswalk just moments before he was attacked. The camera captured grainy footage of the assailants’ legs and Rich as he fell backward into the street after being shot.”

            That is, coincidentally, the “botched robbery” without robbery happened, of all places, when he was arriving at his home. Or rather, two hitmen knew who he was and where he lived, had a plan, and were waiting for him.

            “Rich’s father, Joel Rich, . . . said above all, his son ‘wanted to make a difference in the world.'”

          • July 27, 2019 at 18:41

            Thanks. According to Butowsky, that story wasn’t retracted for good cause – he indicates that Malia Zimmerman had multiple sourcing on it – but because the Murdochs demanded its retraction because it was interfering with business negotiations then in progress in the UK. The story was tainted when Rod Wheeler mistakenly read a statement, not meant for him to read, that erroneously gave the impression that he personally had talked to a source inside the FBI. Butowsky maintains that the story is solid, and it comports with Sy Hersh’s claims regarding HIS FBI source.

    • hetro
      July 27, 2019 at 16:03

      Thanks for these links. The reasoning here seems a little thin, or a cover for something else (such as serious threats of some kind?):

      “It was only after the DNC “helpfully” provided the Rich family with “crisis consultant” Brad Bauman that the Rich family publicly denounced any suspicion that Seth had been the leaker. Reportedly, the Riches have become persuaded that the Wikileaks releases were responsible for the election of Trump, and they don’t want to admit that Seth could have had anything to do with that.”

      Maybe it’s the idea itself I want to challenge–that it was the leaks that threw the election to Trump. Trump’s posing as challenger to a neoliberal centrism seems more the significant factor, well-established by that time, and who could know all that would turn into authoritarian bullying and incompetence while posing as maverick.

  34. Richie Graham
    July 26, 2019 at 18:11

    Can you break the interviews up into individual videos and post them in case people want to link to one of them? Thanks

  35. Mary Jones-Giampalo
    July 26, 2019 at 16:40

    Excellent!…Thank You…

  36. Marko
    July 26, 2019 at 16:09

    A good interview with Butowsky but I’m surprised , and disappointed , that you didn’t question him about the revelation in his lawsuit that Hersh informed him that Andrew McCabe was Hersh’s FBI-insider source. This is a remarkable claim because it doesn’t make any sense. McCabe is the last person on the planet you’d expect to leak info fingering a DNC insider as the source of the emails. Can Butowsky document this claim in any way ? A phone call recording or email chain ? I guess we’ll have to wait for the lawsuit to play out to get the answer.

    I’m also surprised Butowsky wasn’t corrected on the spot about his misunderstanding about the 32 pages of relevant material the FBI holds in regards to Clevenger’s FOIA request. Both Joe and Elizabeth later revealed that they’re both aware that this material could represent communications with any number of other people rather than Assange and/or Wikileaks , as Butowsky claimed. Many people have missed this , including , sadly , Bill Binney , repeatedly.

    • July 26, 2019 at 18:42

      I’d like to know what the significance of the NSA “having” classified conversations with Seth and anyone is. Does this mean that the NSA had already monitored and classified these conversations at the time of the FOIA request? Or did they search for these communications in response to the FOIA request?

      If the former, how does that fit with the notion that Seth had nothing to do with the leak and that the whole thing is just nonsense? The FBI claimed that they had not investigated Seth’s murder. But, if Seth had been in touch with Gavin MacFayden or any others at Wikileaks, NSA very likely would have captured the communication.

      • Marko
        July 26, 2019 at 20:45

        “I’d like to know what the significance of the NSA “having” classified conversations with Seth and anyone is.”

        The classification of the communications could indicate something profound or something trivial , IMO. The specific reason for the classification was not stated. It could vary from protecting national security to protecting an individual’s right to privacy.

        As far as when the NSA did the monitoring , under their “collect it all” policy , you can assume that all communications are monitored and stored in real time , to be examined later if needed. When the FBI requested and gained access to the files would be nice to know , but I don’t expect them to be any more forthcoming on that information than they are on the files themselves.

        I don’t think the 32 pages that are classified are comms between Seth Rich and Wikileaks , as Binney seems to have concluded, rather it’s more likely they involve one or more of the others involved in Clevenger’s FOIA request , which included : Kim Dotcom, Aaron Rich, Shawn Lucas, Kelsey Mulka, Imran Awan, Abid Awan, Jamal Awan, Hina Alvi, Rao Abbas, and/or any person or entity outside of the United States. Clevenger’s new FOIA requests , made separately for each of the parties , should help clarify the issue. If the 32 pages involved Seth Rich and Wikileaks , I think the response to the FOIA would have been of the “we can neither confirm nor deny” type.

    • Norumbega
      July 27, 2019 at 15:59

      “Many people have missed this , including , sadly , Bill Binney , repeatedly.”

      Unfortunately, I’m relying on memory at the moment, but my recollection is that in a more recent interview, Bill Binney corrected the impression he earlier had that the NSA’s acknowledged pages pertained specifically to Seth Rich and Julian Assange. (Think the earlier, mistaken, version may have been in his interview with Butowski on Vimeo.)

      My understanding of what happened is that Larry Johnson, writing as Publius Tacitus on Sic Semper Tyrannis, had first put forward the erroneous interpretation of the NSA’s response letter, and Bill Binney subsequently elaborated on what Johnson, his friend, had written by stating the “facts” in an even crisper way. This may have been reasonable based on what he took from Johnson and his own knowledge of how the NSA operates. But evidently, his failure to consult the original NSA response letter led him into error (one that I myself at first also made).

  37. Abe
    July 26, 2019 at 15:07

    Hopefully next week CN Live can include Scott Ritter:

    “Amid rising tensions between the two nations, Trump, during the same press conference where he threatened Afghanistan with nuclear annihilation, said of the situation with Iran, ‘We’re ready for the absolute worst.’ Trying to define what Trump meant by ‘absolute worst’ doesn’t take much imagination. Speaking to reporters on June 26, 2019, Trump stated that any war with Iran ‘wouldn’t last very long, I can tell you that. It would not last very long. I’m not talking boots on ground…or sending a million soldiers.’

    “This statement was made a day after Trump tweeted out similarly threatening words, declaring, ‘Any attack by Iran on anything American will be met with great and overwhelming force. In some areas, overwhelming will mean obliteration.’ There can be no doubt in any rational observer’s mind that the president was, and is, speaking about the use of nuclear weapons.

    “Unlike the situation vis-à-vis Afghanistan, where the mere consideration of using nuclear weapons on the scope and scale needed to kill 10 million people is inconceivable, the situation vis-à-vis Iran is a far different scenario. The 2018 NPR speaks specifically of the role played by U.S. nuclear deterrence in confronting Iran on several potential points of conflict.

    “First and foremost, the NPR states that ‘Iran retains the technological capability and much of the capacity necessary to develop a nuclear weapon within one year of a decision to do so.’ It should be noted that the 2018 NPR was written and published while the U.S. was a member of the Joint Comprehensive Program of Action (or JCPOA, popularly known as the Iran nuclear agreement). The U.S. withdrew from the JCPOA in May 2018, and since that time has engaged in a policy of ‘maximum pressure’ against Iran to compel it to enter new negotiations about limiting its nuclear program. Rather than accede to this pressure, Iran has increased its nuclear capabilities beyond that permitted by the JCPOA, meaning that the one-year threshold mentioned in the 2018 NPR has been shortened considerably.

    “The U.S. is also concerned about nuclear proliferation and ‘denying terrorists access to finished weapons, material, or expertise.’ Iran has been declared a state sponsor of terrorism, and its Revolutionary Guard Command, which plays a critical role in its nuclear program, a terrorist entity. The 2018 NPR declares that ‘Preventing the illicit acquisition of a nuclear weapon, nuclear materials, or related technology and expertise by a violent extremist organization is a significant U.S. national security priority.’ It notes that the acquisition of nuclear weapons by ‘rogue states’ such as Iran ‘that possess nuclear weapons or the materials, technology, and knowledge required to make them’ increases the likelihood that terrorist organizations will acquire them. ‘Further,’ the NPR notes, ‘given the nature of terrorist ideologies, we must assume that they would employ a nuclear weapon were they to acquire one.’

    “It doesn’t matter that Iran isn’t pursuing a nuclear weapon today, or that the designation of both Iran and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Command as terrorist entities by the U.S. is an entirely political move devoid of reality. The fact remains that, when it comes to the issue of U.S. nuclear deterrence policy, the theoretical ability and intent on the part of Iran to both acquire nuclear weapons and share this technology with terrorist organizations has been solidified in American policy. As such, any declaration by the U.S. that deterrence has failed creates the very ‘extreme situation’ under which Washington can consider the employment of nuclear weapons ‘to defend the vital interests of the United States, its allies, and partners.’

    “It would take the United States, using nuclear weapons, less than a week to destroy Iran’s nuclear infrastructure and eliminate their government and ancillary organizations, including the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Command. The numbers of Iranians who would be killed in such an attack could very well exceed 10 million. President Trump understood that his reference to annihilating Afghanistan was nonsensical. But his willingness to use nuclear weapons to achieve a short, decisive military victory was not.

    “The fact that the United States has defined conditions that would legitimize the use of nuclear weapons against Iran should frighten all Americans. The fact that the current crisis could meet these conditions should alarm the entire world. Under normal circumstances, the American people could expect a rational president to walk away from any situation that needlessly invited the specter of nuclear war. That President Trump so easily invokes his powers amid critical international tensions should give us serious pause.”

    • Tim Jones
      July 28, 2019 at 01:46

      Butowsky erred by revealing the recording of Sy H. I think he was not (but now is) savvy about damage he caused but acted out of a sincere desire to help and got burned. The reason: DNC players who know what happened to Rich are nearly in damage control mode and certainly asked/forced/ threatened significant parties to change their stories knowing lawsuits are coming. Let’s see who perjures themselves.

  38. Mike Morrison
    July 26, 2019 at 11:25

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