A New Twist in Seth Rich Murder Case

Exclusive: The U.S. mainstream media dismisses any link between the murder of DNC official Seth Rich and leaked DNC emails as a “conspiracy theory” – while blaming Russia instead – but a new possibility has arisen, writes Joe Lauria.

By Joe Lauria

With U.S.-Russia tensions as dangerously high as they’ve been since the worst days of the Cold War, there is potential new evidence that Russia was not behind a hack of the Democratic National Committee, although Congress and the U.S. mainstream media accept the unproven allegation of Russia’s guilt as indisputable fact.

Slain Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich

The possible new evidence comes in the form of a leaked audiotape of veteran investigative journalist Seymour Hersh in which Hersh is heard to say that not Russia, but a DNC insider, was the source of the Democratic emails published by WikiLeaks just before the start of the Democratic National Convention in late July 2016.

Hersh said on the tape that the source of the leak was former DNC employee Seth Rich, who was murdered on a darkened street in a rough neighborhood of Northwest Washington D.C. two weeks before the Convention, on July 10, 2016. But Hersh threw cold water on a theory that the murder was an assassination in retaliation for the leak. Instead, Hersh concurs with the D.C. police who say the murder was a botched robbery.

Mainstream news outlets have mocked any linkage between Rich’s murder and the disclosure of the DNC emails as a “conspiracy theory,” but Hersh’s comments suggest another possibility – that the murder and the leak were unrelated while Rich may still have been the leaker.

In dismissing the possibility that Rich was the leaker, mainstream media outlets often ignore one of the key reason why some people believe that he was: Shortly after his murder, WikiLeaks, which has denied receiving the emails from the Russian government, posted a Tweet offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to the solution of the mystery of who killed Rich.

Julian Assange, WikiLeaks founder and publisher, brought up Rich’s murder out of context in an interview with Dutch TV last August. “Whistle-blowers go to significant efforts to get us material and often very significant risks,” Assange said. “As a 27-year-old, works for the DNC, was shot in the back, murdered just a few weeks ago for unknown reasons as he was walking down the street in Washington.”

Pressed by the interviewer to say whether Rich was the source of the DNC emails, Assange said WikiLeaks never reveals its sources. Yet, it appeared to be an indirect way of naming Rich, while formally maintaining WikiLeak’s policy. An alternative view would be to believe that Assange is cynically using Rich’s death to divert the trail from the real source.

But Assange is likely one of the few people who actually knows who the source is, so his professed interest in Rich’s murder presents a clue regarding the source of the leak that any responsible news organization would at least acknowledge although that has not been the case in many recent mainstream articles about the supposed Seth Rich “conspiracy theory.”

Hersh’s Unwitting Tapes

Hersh’s taped comments add another element to the mystery, given his long record of shedding light into the dark corners of the U.S. government’s crimes, lies and cover-ups. He exposed the My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War; revealed illegal CIA spying in the 1970s spurring wide-ranging Congressional investigations and reform; and uncovered U.S. torture in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Investigative reporter Seymour Hersh

In the audiotape – which Hersh told me was made without his permission – he quoted an unnamed government source who told him that Rich offered the DNC emails to WikiLeaks in exchange for money.

“What I know comes off an FBI report. Don’t ask me how. You can figure it out, I’ve been around a long time,” Hersh says on the tape. “I have somebody on the inside who will go and read a file for me. This person is unbelievably accurate and careful, he’s a very high-level guy and he’ll do a favor. You’re just going to have to trust me.”

The FBI cyber unit got involved after the D.C. police were unable to access protected files on Rich’s computer, Hersh said. So the FBI “found what he’d done. He had submitted a series of documents, of emails. Some juicy emails from the DNC,” to Wikileaks, Hersh said.

“He offered a sample, an extensive sample, you know I’m sure dozens of emails and said ‘I want money.’ Then later Wikileaks did get the password, he had a Dropbox, a protected Dropbox,” Hersh said.

“Wikileaks got access, and before he was killed … he also, and this is also in the FBI report, he also let people know, with whom he was dealing. … I don’t know how he dealt with the Wikileaks and the mechanism but … the word was passed according to the NSA report, ‘I’ve also shared this box with a couple of friends so if anything happens to me it’s not going to solve your problem.’” Hersh said he didn’t know what this “problem” was.

Either Hersh misspoke when he mentioned an “NSA report,” instead meaning the FBI report, or the National Security Agency may have provided a record of Rich’s communication to the FBI. Both the FBI and the D.C. police have denied that the FBI got involved in the case.

The Tape Is Leaked

The Hersh audiotape was posted on a website called Big League Politics, which displays links to Project Veritas, a right-wing group run by James O’Keefe, though there is no evidence that Veritas was involved in the Hersh tape. Veritas does undercover audio and video recordings of unsuspecting subjects and has been accused of doctoring its video and audiotapes. But a recent O’Keefe undercover video of a CNN medical producer saying the network’s coverage of the Russia-gate story was “bullshit” was confirmed by CNN, which took no action against the producer.

President Donald Trump being sworn in on Jan. 20, 2017. (Screen shot from Whitehouse.gov)

People who believe that Hersh’s apparent revelation could reduce Russia-U.S. tensions are clamoring for him to confirm what he said. Popular blogger Caitlin Johnstone wrote: “If Hersh has any information at all indicating that the WikiLeaks releases last year came not from Russian hackers but from a leaker on the inside, he is morally obligated to volunteer all the information that he has. Even the slightest possibility that his information could help halt America’s collision course with Russia by killing public support for new cold war escalations makes his remaining silent absolutely inexcusable.”

Only Hersh’s voice is heard on the taped interview, which was conducted by Ed Butowsky, a wealthy Republican donor and Trump supporter. Until now, Hersh’s only public comment about the tape was to National Public Radio. “I hear gossip,” Hersh said. “[Butowsky] took two and two and made 45 out of it.”

I contacted Hersh on Friday via email. He confirmed to me that it was his voice on the tape by angrily condemning those who he said secretly recorded him, without identifying them. He did not respond when I asked him whether he thought the tape may have been altered. Hersh refused to comment further.

On June 2, in an exchange of emails between Hersh and Butowsky, Hersh denied any knowledge of the FBI report. That was two months before Hersh discovered that he had been secretly recorded when the tape was made public on Aug. 1 by Big League Politics. A screenshot of the Hersh-Butowsky email exchange was published by Big League Politics last week.

“I am curious why you haven’t approached the house committee telling them what you were read by your FBI friend related to Seth Rich that you in turn read to me,” Butowsky wrote.

Hersh replied:  “ed –you have a lousy memory…i was not read anything by my fbi friend..i have no firsthand information and i really wish you would stop telling others information that you think i have…please stop relaying information that you do not have right…and that i  have no reason to believe is accurate…”

Without informing him that he had been recorded, Butowsky replies: “I know it isn’t first hand knowledge but you clearly said, my memory is perfect, that you had a friend at the FBI who read / told you what was in the file on Seth Rich and I wonder why you aren’t helping your country and sharing that information on who it was?”

Further suggesting that Rich may have been the source of the DNC emails, WikiLeaks posted a link to the audiotape on Twitter.

Hersh has given no indication he’s planning to write a piece based on his source who he said has seen the FBI report. Hersh has found it difficult to be published in recent years in the United States. He has been writing for the London Review of Books until that publication earlier this year rejected a piece challenging the purported U.S. evidence blaming a chemical weapons attack in Syria, which led to Trump’s bombing of a Syrian air field. Hersh’s story was published instead in a major German weekly, Die Welt.

MSM Contempt

Corporate media’s uniform reaction has been to treat the idea of Seth Rich being WikiLeak’s source as a “conspiracy theory” – while mostly ignoring Assange’s hints and now the Hersh tape. Major U.S. media outlets cover Russia-gate as if Russian interference in last November’s U.S. election is proven, rather than based on a shaky “assessment” by “hand-picked” analysts from three – not all 17 – U.S. intelligence agencies.

Fox News’ anchor Bill O’Reilly interviewing President Donald Trump.

If Russia-gate special prosecutor Robert Mueller is serious about getting to the bottom of who WikiLeak’s source is there are several avenues he could pursue. He could check Rich’s bank accounts to see if there was a transfer of money from a representative of WikiLeaks. He could try to find Rich’s friends who may have been given his DropBox password. He could seek to interview Hersh.

“Someone ought to ask Mueller, if he had an ounce of integrity (which he doesn’t), why he’s not showing these FBI and/or NSA reports to his Grand Jury which could blow the lid off of ‘Russiagate’ that Mueller was appointed to investigate,” former FBI official and whistleblower Coleen Rowley told me in an email. “It’s sad the FBI could be keeping this secret. But I think the [Rich] family could sue to get the FBI Report that Hersh mentioned or now that FOX is sued, its attorneys could try to subpoena the FBI documents in discovery.” She added that the FBI would likely fight such a subpoena, however.

The lawsuit that Rowley mentioned was filed by Rod Wheeler, a D.C. private detective, against Butowsky and Fox News. Wheeler was hired by Butowsky on behalf of the Rich family to find the killer. In a Fox News item on May 16, Wheeler was quoted referring to a Fox source in the federal government who said that Rich was WikiLeak’s source.

Fox News retracted the story a week later citing unspecific breaches of its editorial policies. At the time Fox had suffered ad boycotts when its chairman, Roger Ailes, and then its top presenter, Bill O’Reilly, faced sexual harassment allegations. Both later resigned. Sean Hannity, another top presenter, continued to pursue the Rich story until he was threatened with an ad boycott, at which point Fox retracted the story.

Wheeler’s suit now alleges that he was misquoted and that the purpose of the Fox story was to distract attention from Russia’s connection with the DNC emails. Big League Politics has posted audio of Wheeler saying that Aaron Rich, the victim’s brother, blocked him from pursuing leads on Seth Rich’s computer.

It is not clear if Hersh’s source is the same as Fox’s (or if Fox was using Hersh in a second-hand way). Butowsky has a connection with Fox as an on-air commentator. The date of the Hersh audio recording has not been made known although it presumably predated his email exchange with Butowsky on June 2

If an FBI report exists indicating that Rich was the source of the DNC emails and the report is made public, it could reduce tensions with Russia that Congress ratcheted up further last week by escalating sanctions – a form of economic warfare – against Russia as punishment for its alleged role in exposing the DNC emails and others belonging to Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman John Podesta.

The DNC emails revealed DNC officials improperly interfering in the Democratic primaries to undercut Clinton’s chief rival, Sen. Bernie Sanders. The Podesta emails included the contents of Clinton’s speeches to Wall Street and other special interests as well as pay-to-play features of the Clinton Foundation.

On Jan. 6 – before leaving office – President Obama’s intelligence chiefs oversaw “hand-picked” analysts from the CIA, FBI and NSA creating an “assessment” blaming Russia for the hacked emails albeit without presenting any hard evidence. Russian officials have denied supplying the emails to WikiLeaks and WikiLeaks has denied receiving them from Russia.

Craig Murray, a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and an associate of Assange, has said categorically that the WikiLeaks source was a leak from an insider, not a hack. In an email message last week to former CIA analyst Ray McGovern, which McGovern shared with me, Murray wrote: “To my certain knowledge neither the DNC nor Podesta leaks to Wikileaks involved Russia. I met with someone while in Washington who, to the best of my knowledge, was an actual leaker.”

Nevertheless, the unproven allegations of Russian interference in the election have raised tensions between the two nuclear powers to levels not seen since the darkest days of the Cold War and possibly worse. Stephen Cohen, a leading U.S. expert on Russia, said the current showdown may be even more hazardous than the Cuban missile crisis.

“I think this is the most dangerous moment in American-Russian relations, at least since the Cuban missile crisis. And arguably, it’s more dangerous, because it’s more complex,” he told Democracy Now! in April. “Therefore, we … have in Washington these – and, in my judgment, fact-less – accusations that Trump has somehow been compromised by the Kremlin.”

In the missile crisis “there was no doubt what the Soviets had done, putting missile silos in Cuba,” Cohen said. “No evidence has been presented today of anything. Imagine if Kennedy had been accused of being a secret Soviet Kremlin agent. He would have been crippled. And the only way he could have proved he wasn’t was to have launched a war against the Soviet Union. And at that time, the option was nuclear war.”

As it still is today.

Joe Lauria is a veteran foreign-affairs journalist. He has written for the Boston Globe, the Sunday Times of London and the Wall Street Journal among other newspapers. He is the author of How I Lost By Hillary Clinton published by OR Books in June 2017. He can be reached at [email protected] and followed on Twitter at @unjoe.

175 comments for “A New Twist in Seth Rich Murder Case

  1. August 13, 2017 at 06:16

    Without reading through all 175 comments, Wikileaks never made any secret SethRich was their source. If I knew that, do did the DNC. Hillary had paid people to troll and hastle Progressives
    So for me, the obvious has been glaring at us all along. The scary part is the 6 people who control MSM and why they wanted the escalate tensions, fueling The New Cold War?

  2. Alice
    August 11, 2017 at 19:37


  3. August 11, 2017 at 09:41

    Any truth to the claim that the manager of the bar where Rich spent his last night on earth visited the White House just 4 days before Rich was murdered?

  4. August 11, 2017 at 05:40

    Watching this anti-Russian hysteria in amazement. I don’t think the near Cold War situation is the result of these allegations, rather vice-versa, the allegations have been made to stoke the outrage.
    Best, Brian.

  5. fernly2
    August 11, 2017 at 00:28

    Just call the WH and tell him no more sanctions and join BRICS. No more bloody wars. Get infrastructure and a national bank.

  6. Skip Scott
    August 10, 2017 at 11:58

    Once more the trolls come in at the end to muddy the waters. No evidence-based arguments required. I can’t imagine why you think you’re succeeding in refuting any of the many intelligent commenters on this site.

    • Virginia
      August 10, 2017 at 16:11

      Skip — I dialed down here to the bottom of comments just to test my theory, which is the one you just stated: “Once more the trolls come in at the end to muddy the waters. No evidence-based arguments required.” I like what you added, “I can’t imagine why you think you’re succeeding in refuting any of the many intelligent commenters on this site.” So, I’m dittoing it! Thanks for confirming this.

  7. Pat Goudey O'Brien
    August 10, 2017 at 10:43

    Tough to consider muddying a man’s name after he’s dead, if he did nothing to earn the notoriety. But hacking the DNC is not the only thing Russia stands accused of.

    SO, the Russia investigations are great, so far as I’m concerned. I’m far more worried about oligarchs and Putin pulling Trump’s strings than I am old DNC emails.

  8. barney
    August 10, 2017 at 03:56

    Wow..can’t believe how bad this article is….This site is a conspiracy theorist’s wet dream. Look out boys that sneaky MSM is under your bed.

  9. DKUber
    August 10, 2017 at 02:33

    If SR was the leak then Russia paid him to do it.

  10. Herbert Dorsey
    August 10, 2017 at 00:10

    The people who are pushing the Russia hacked our election and colluded with Trump to win the election story are using this meme to weaken the Trump Administration. In doing so they are actually guilty of sedition. A number of highly respectable people, including Julian Assange and past British ambassador, Craig Murray have publicly stated that Russia was not the Source of the Wiki Leaks revelations. This whole storyline is a huge source of black humor to informed people that know that the U.S. CIA has a long dark history of meddling in other nation’s elections.

  11. Susan Sunflower
    August 9, 2017 at 22:54

    Sorry if I missed it, but Hersh’s mention (whether correct or not) that Rich wanted money and — apparently — got money is also problematic and a nightmare for WikiLeaks (if true) because WikiLeaks insists it does not pay for or specifically solicit leaks … to provide “incentive” for leaking creates problems with being “just a publisher” versus a co-conspirator …

    Hersh is quite clearly only repeating what he was told (i.e. what was read to him)… he has no personal knowledge or way of determining if the information in that report was correct … His “source” is the person who read the report that was written by others based on the findings of investigators … somewhere , assuming this report is correct in so far as being exactly what was in the report, there is the forensic report on the computer written by the person(s) who teased the info from it’s encription … etc.

    Am I correct in thinking that all this — including Rich’s death — occurred before anything was “leaked” or published … The DNC I’M pretty sure had the known about the crowdstrike phishing findings … they knew they’d been breeched, but afaict did not know what had taken … if they thought it was “Russians” — be it Gucciffer or Fancy Bear … they, in theory, would have no reason to suspect Rich unless he tripped himself up via “loose lips” or poorly chosen confidantes (who haven’t be heard from afaict)

    It’s also possible that this is a “Veritas” (hand in glove with “the deep state”) string … to dirty Hersh and legally implicate Assange (if someone acting as an agent for WikiLeaks paid Rich for the documents).

  12. HpO
    August 9, 2017 at 22:28

    Don’t trust Seymour Hersh.

    Know why, Joe Lauria? It’ll be like trusting that Batman-&-Robin pair of reporters from WaPo about Watergate, only to find out they were in on it too by working for the Watergate psyops genius behind Nixon’s impeachment, who’s now the Russiagate pysops genius behind Trump’s impeachment.

    Do the math yourself. It was all right there under your nose when you wrote this article. And now it’s all right there under my nose as I’m re-reading it for a confirmation of the tell-tale sign. Here it is:

    “Hersh said on the tape that the source of the (Wikileaks) leak was former DNC employee Seth Rich … But Hersh … concurs with the D.C. police who say (Rich’s) murder was a botched robbery.”

  13. Douglas Westerman
    August 9, 2017 at 20:50

    It appeared to be a botched robbery, but if it were a targeted assassination, they would go to some trouble to make appear as something else. But to say it could possibly have been a targeted assassination, and then have everyone, including the family cry “How dare you suggest such a thing?” Why such a pouncing fury over considering all the logical possibilities?

  14. August 9, 2017 at 17:25

    the audio recordings that were pointed to by BigLeague > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBIpN1cdt9MDoBFyPlwBtdA/videos < were posted 11Jul17 and 12jul17 on the YouTube channel "Debunking Rod Wheeler". BigLeague's story was published 1aug17 coinsiding with the day Wheeler's lawsuit was made public.

  15. AnthraxSleuth
    August 9, 2017 at 16:22

    Sy Hersh is doing what’s called Limited Hangout with this.

    Personally, I’m not convinced that Seth Rich is actually dead.
    I base this on the bizarre behavior of his family.

    • glitch
      August 10, 2017 at 06:26

      Witness Protection? I’d love to think so. With the Awan arrest perhaps we’ll find out soon.

  16. Charlie Slavin
    August 9, 2017 at 15:14

    Fake News…Fake News…Fake News…Fake News…Fake News…Fake News…Fake News…

  17. Virginia
    August 9, 2017 at 13:09

    A most important article, a must read, and share: Three American lies destroying the US-Russia relationship https://www.rt.com/op-edge/399108-us-lies-russia-nato/

  18. David
    August 9, 2017 at 12:11

    Articles like this that give cite Okeefe and Butowski as if they are credible at all erode any remaining worth to CN. I cannot believe people here get all excited about this bullshit Seth Rich/DNC conspiracy, just because they can then justify letting the FSB and SVR off the hook. Stop doing contortions trying to validate fake news about Vince Foster and Seth Rich and pay attention to the trail of dead Russians following the Russian hack of our electoral process. Journalists and witnesses are killed in Putin’s Russia for speaking up and threatening the flow of money and power of the Russian mafia and Putin’s oligarchs. Much more revealing and should concern any real Americans. Too many Putin fans here intimidating the rational people, waving pompoms and shouting down dissent. Parry should get a handle on this mess.

    • Anon
      August 9, 2017 at 18:11

      If you had any evidence or argument I’m sure that you would have let us know.
      Time to get back to your TV and believe everything you hear.

  19. August 9, 2017 at 11:45

    Seymour Hersh = Controlled Opposition

  20. August 9, 2017 at 10:52

    In case Mueller’s conclusion would be: ‘No Russian involvement’ MSM, DC & the services will be ridiculized to the max. So the outcome is predictable.

  21. Litchfield
    August 9, 2017 at 10:39

    I recommend that everyone read not on the emails but also the comments thread at the linked Big League site:


  22. JM
    August 9, 2017 at 10:30

    Hersch is losing his mojo. He hasn’t been able to grab the spotlight since AbuGhraib.

    • evelync
      August 9, 2017 at 11:31

      My dear JM,
      HERSH, (as opposed to HERSCH), like all of us is getting older, for whatever that may or may not be worth. He seems just as sharp as ever and more importantly, committed to uncovering hidden explanations behind events that are of interest to the citizens of this country.

      a magic charm, talisman, or spell.
      “someone must have their mojo working over at the record company”
      magic power.
      synonyms: magic, voodoo, hoodoo, wizardry, sorcery; More

      I have never thought of Hersh as having magical charms….and there is no evidence from his remarkable investigative career that he tried to create that persona.
      Instead, as we all know who have read about Mai Lai, Ahbu Graib, and the other horrors perpetrated in our name that defy our mythological self image and that were uncovered by Hersh – he’s really a dedicated, courageous, honest, dogged gumshoe looking into crimes.

      Just saying……

      • Susan Sunflower
        August 9, 2017 at 12:32

        Hersh, like WikiLeaks, has been the target of deliberate fraudulent “leaks” … Hersh’s credibility was a see-saw affair but he’s been largely discounted afaict since before breaking the Abu Ghraib story (which gave him a bounce) and Dan Rather is still doing “the big interview” on AXS TV (and “everyone” agrees he “should” have known better).

        As mentioned at this point Hersh has trouble getting published in the English-language press, and he too is professionally obligated to protect sources (which is why he — even if he wanted to — cannot give into this quite real extortion via the “secret tape”) …

  23. August 9, 2017 at 09:14

    Meanwhile the psychopaths of the deep state do what they do best, create a purely fantasy world for the American people to inhabit in which evil foreign villains threaten our precious “freedom & democracy” and therefore must be dealt with militarily. Perhaps its time to rename the old game called – “Russian roulette.” It should henceforth be called: “American roulette” as we American’s now daily play deadly games of “nuclear chicken” with the collective future of the entire planet in order to maintain our crumbling empire, along with the status of the many deep state morons who control its last flailing spasmodic gasps!

    • doray
      August 9, 2017 at 10:28

      “It should henceforth be called: “American roulette” as we American’s now daily play deadly games of “nuclear chicken” with the collective future of the entire planet in order to maintain our crumbling empire, along with the status of the many deep state morons who control its last flailing spasmodic gasps!”
      Agreed, Gary! The whole Russia BS is just another weapon of mass distraction, as the Amerikan sheeple are easily distracted into believing the most preposterous things! Like, “Nineteen hijackers, (16 from Saudi Arabia), flew airplanes into towers, three of which fell into dust due to fire. As a result of this impossible scenario, we’re invading Afghanistan and Iraq…”
      What I don’t understand, is why the deep state thinks provoking a nuclear power will benefit anyone in any way! Are they THAT desperate to sell more weapons, that they’ll risk killing the planet? Now THAT is some psychopathic behavior!

  24. August 9, 2017 at 05:30

    #AntiSpyBill feat Kim Dotcom, Barrett Brown, Lauri Love, Suzie Dawson , Lee Camp

    3:06:45 Kim is asked about Seth Rich
    3:08:20 Suzie comments on Seth Rich
    3:11:10 Kim talks about legal implications re Seth Rich


    ( I just tried posting this at Truthdig and it was vaporized immediately. My eyebrows got singed. )

    Also , Matt Couch et al ( @RealMattCouch ) in a Tue. eve periscope reveals new intel that says Shawn Lucas and Seth Rich were communicating via dark web in the days leading up to Seth’s murder , and that in the hours just prior to his murder Seth was at a party with other IT types – a party given , apparently , in Seth’s honor. The party was reportedly held at Imran Awan’s house , of all places.

    Fake or real , I have no clue , but nothing would surprise me at this point , and Couch and crew have been pretty cautious with their reporting to date.

    • Joe Lauria
      August 9, 2017 at 16:22

      Thanks for posting this. I watched the whole thing. An incredibly important discussion.

  25. David4140
    August 9, 2017 at 02:57

    If it was gang banger(s) who murdered Seth Rich they’d be awaiting trial right now. Period.

  26. Bob Van Noy
    August 8, 2017 at 21:45

    Peter grigore, D5-5, thank you. Robert Parry Consortiumnews; simply the best…

  27. Reverend M.M.Holleran
    August 8, 2017 at 21:16

    It’s difficult for me to express my utter, complete, and overwhelming inability to give a flying rat’s ass about this non-story. Really.

    • Susan Sunflower
      August 8, 2017 at 21:21

      It’s not significant except in that It could — potentially — destroy a critical brick underpinning the entire Russian hacking story… and all that is riding on it ….

    • Anon
      August 9, 2017 at 07:46

      You are clearly not a “reverend” and would not express strong opinion if you did not care.
      You are trying to suppress the story for concealed political purposes, or you would provide reasons.

  28. D5-5
    August 8, 2017 at 20:24

    What gets to me, continually, is how successful the diversion program has been away from the Clinton Problems in particular (to add to a thoroughly corrupt nomination process). My instinct tells me that the ferocity of this program, and its wide reach to affect intelligence agencies, indicates something massively stinking in the heart of the System. So the diversion program (“ignorance is strength”) has been the vigorous windmachine that it’s all the fault of (Pavlovism is the way–it works for advertising) “themrussians themrussians” and if necessary we’ll go to war over it, damn straight.

    • Susan Sunflower
      August 8, 2017 at 21:19

      It’s sobering to realize just how deeply invested “The Democratic Party” apparatus is in the Russian hacking story… whether (when) it falls apart or slowing fizzles out to some sort of anti-climax (Whitewater / Benghazi) the images — I’m seeing Maddow in full hysterical mode — will never fade entirely.

      Trump reminds me of Chaplin’s great dictator with his enormous world globe balloon … can’t seem to decide which tantalizing target to actually let loose the missles on … how many has he threatened this week alone? Yes, he seems hell-bent on going solo in a quest for global domination but can’t decide where to start … and everyone is hoping he’ll “snap out of it” or that someone will snap him out of it. I suspect few are impressed by the “strength” he is showing, “making America great again”, looking like a poor man’s Hitler.

  29. peter grigore
    August 8, 2017 at 19:18

    i have this to share: https://youtu.be/Sqqdc5yrbHw

  30. Dr. Ibrahim Soudy
    August 8, 2017 at 18:45

    How come they call it “The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave” if Americans seem to be so full of fear all the time?! They have to be afraid of something , anything, even if they have to manufacture that fear?! Any explanations?! Is that how the elite justify the huge military and sell that to the people?! Also the erosion of the civil liberties?! Are Americans modern day slaves BY CHOICE?!

    • Sam F
      August 9, 2017 at 07:41

      Yes, US fearmongering is the standard practice of tyrants since long before Aristotle & Plato warned of it, that is “how the elite justify the huge military” and “erosion of the civil liberties” via mass media propaganda. The only choice is whether to suffer ostracism and economic losses for objecting to the totalitarian propaganda narrative.

  31. August 8, 2017 at 17:35

    The thing that really bugs me is that the mainstream media continually says about the questions around Seth Rich’s murder that not only are they “conspiracy theories” but that they are “debunked.”

    What’s debunked them? I’ve never see them present any evidence that they are debunked except the family saying, paraphrased, about the idea that Seth might have been the leak, “No, he wouldn’t do that because he was a good American boy and that would be treason.”

    That supposedly debunks any questions and leaves us with no alternative, supposedly, except the nonsense of a “botched robbery.”

    Of course a botched robbery where nothing is robbed and the victim was shot in the back, indicating he was fleeing, begs the question. Why would a robber shoot him in the back when’s he’s fleeing and then flee himself or herself? Most robbers, being unknown to their victim, would just flee. So why did this botched robber shoot and flee?

    If there was a botched robbery the logical thinking of the police would be that the robber must have been known to Seth. That would lead to more investigation, not basically shutting it down.

    On the other hand, why the interest in his computer? Why turning it over to the FBI? The FBI wasn’t interested in the DNC computer enough to get it but they were for a victim of a botched robbery? This just doesn’t make sense.

    Finally, now that Hersh has confirmed he was the one on the tape, that adds a lot of veracity to what was said on the tape, that the FBI had a file saying Seth had been in contact with Wikileaks. If that is so, then the FBI HAS ALL ALONG KNOWN THE RUSSIAGATE STORY IS PURE MADE UP BUNK.

    From the get go. This wouldn’t be just the FBI and other intelligence hand picked people operating on their bias. It would be them OUT AND OUT LYING.

    Someone recently wrote that lying is part of their job description.

    What we have here, folks, is a coup planned long before the election. They just didn’t expect that Hillary Clinton was such a horrid candidate that she could still lose when they were doing all these dirty tricks. But they figure they still can get their god damn war with Russia anyway.

    A pox on all of them.

    • Bob Van Noy
      August 8, 2017 at 18:57

      Thank you Miranda Keefe. A very fine analysis.

    • D5-5
      August 8, 2017 at 19:42

      Thanks. Right on comments. Her losing the election, summer a year ago, seemed very unlikely. What we don’t hear much about is the significance of the leaked emails. We know they indicated the DNC was throwing the nomination to Clinton, smearing Sanders, giving away the debate questions to Clinton. We know the leaked Podesta emails indicate Clinton Foundation pay for play and possibly more as with scandals involving Bill Clinton. The significance of this cover up probably also indicates desperation–beyond losing the election–to criminal proceedings. Probably even more important than losing the election.

      • Joe Lauria
        August 9, 2017 at 05:21

        “What we don’t hear much about is the significance of the leaked emails.”

        I have written an entire a book on the significance of the emails.


        • Bob Van Noy
          August 9, 2017 at 08:17

          Thank you Joe Lauria, I’ll be getting your book, and keep up the good work, we’re listening out here…

          • Joe Lauria
            August 9, 2017 at 15:55


    • Tomk
      August 8, 2017 at 20:19

      All you have to do is look at Mueller’s dreadful history covering up 911 malfeasance for the FBI and “Intelligence” Agencies and you know he is not an “honest” guy as he is being portrayed–he is a fixer and it is all a set up to reverse the election and for a new Cold War against Russia with the phony accusations that John Brennan masterminded at CIA as Hersh also stated….The country is not run by the elected government anymore but by a shadow government and probably has been since they murdered JFK…We are seeing a replay without a bullet this time….

    • Joe Lauria
      August 9, 2017 at 05:18

      I think the reason why the corporate media uniformly says the story was “debunked” is because Fox retracted it. But as I point out in the article, Fox had already suffered two ad boycotts and there was an ad boycott of Hannity being threatened if Fox didn’t pull the story, which it then did.

      The reason the police would want to look at his computer is to see if there were any clues to whom might have murdered him, for example someone with whom he was having an argument or who might have threatened him. As Hersh says, it’s entirely possible that this was an unrelated murder, a crime in a rough neighborhood, while Rich might still have been the leaker.

      • August 9, 2017 at 19:28

        That retraction supposedly ‘debunking’ the story reminds me of the whole dirty trick that got Dan Rather fired and supposedly disproved the truth that George W. Bush used his privilege to avoid combat duty and was AWOL without suffering any consequences.

        For anyone who doesn’t remember, CBS got a hold of some evidence that supported the truth and reported it. Then it turned out the evidence was fake. After an uproar the news editor and Dan Rather were fired in disgrace and the established narrative was that the idea that Bush had avoided combat or been AWOL with no consequences was now proved to be untrue. But it didn’t prove anything like that. It only proved that one piece of evidence supporting that story was not true. The fact that there was a lot of other evidence that showed the story was true was now to be ignored.

        So what we have here is one statement made by one scurrilous investigator, Wheeler, who made statements to FOX News supporting the idea that Rich was the leaker. Later Wheeler, now working with the DNC, the FBI, the DC police, and the DNC lawyer ‘representing’ the Rich family, but paid for by the DNC, retracted his story and is now suing FOX.

        This doesn’t debunk anything. This could be a dirty trick to sideline the story from the get go or it could be that Wheeler was speaking the truth at first and now is lying, because he’s now been co-opted, or it just could be Wheeler is a wheeler-dealer (pun intended) who switched his con in mid-stream.

        But it doesn’t debunk a thing. It just calls into question Wheeler.

        Something definitely is fishy when Wheeler’s initial claim, that the FBI had a file showing that Rich had been in contact with Wikileaks, is the exact same thing Hersh said on the tape, and now BOTH are retracting it with a vengeance.

        Yet this, instead of spurring more investigation to discover the truth, is doing exactly what the Rather/Bush scandal did, it is shutting down any investigation.

        Something is weird here.

        But now that the Deep State has had its puppets shut down access to alternative news and commentary, less and less people are exposed to questions about the official narrative and just accept “It’s been debunked.”

        Pure poppycock crap that smells to high heaven.

        What did they do to get the Rich family to want no investigation instead of answers? It’s sickening.

        I keep thinking of Hamlet knowing that things are rotten in Denmark and no one else having the slightest idea of what’s really going on.

        • Skip Scott
          August 10, 2017 at 11:53

          I remember the Dan Rather incident well. There is a book called “Fortunate Son” that chronicles those GWB years. The messenger (J.H.Hatfield) was ruthlessly attacked and ended up committing suicide. He was definitely a flawed messenger, but the facts in the book were true.

  32. dave
    August 8, 2017 at 17:24

    Excellent article. PLEASE look into Guccifer 2.0. Legitimate Internet sleuths have solid evidence that he was a creation of the DNC. This is NOT a conspiracy theory.

    Metadata was ignored by Crowdstrike which show the word documents were not from a Russian but a DNC EMPLOYEE and timestamps show that the NGPVAN files were created in the eastern time zone not Russia.

    • D5-5
      August 8, 2017 at 19:20

      Was Guccifer 2.0 a creation of the DNC (or Crowdstrike) in the sense of accused of working for the Kremlin–is this your meaning?

      Guccifer 2.0 had a conversation with an actress last April and told her Seth Rich gave him the files. Was that the route–Seth Rich to Guccifer 2.0 to wikileaks? This could explain Assange’s evasions in terms of identifying the source.

      Also, your point on the timestamp analysis by Forensicator indicates you’re right on where the leaked files were created.

      In the overwhelming conspiracy laden interps for the past year most reliable seems:

      *local leak from Seth Rich
      *passed to Guccifer 2.0
      *involved others (Hersh’s “don’t know what that means” re “you’re still in trouble”)
      *Hersh connected to an interior source as usual (and usually right) when he says Seth Rich was the leaker

  33. Dan Pejchl
    August 8, 2017 at 17:14

    how about a crooked IT guy.. were the brothers supervisors? it sounds like they were highly paid.. supervisors.. he was having trouble with 2 of them .. they were at bar together.. maybe there is another player in all this.. the bothers had something to hide as well

  34. Susan Sunflower
    August 8, 2017 at 15:04

    The establishment press has decided any interest in Rich is disinformation by Trump supporters/apologists, without exception, without nuance, without curiosity …. I suspect it was Sy Hersh being brought into the story (although he, like MacFayden and Murray, is never mentioned)

    Even if Rich’s murder had nothing to do with leaking …. that does not mean that he was not the source of one tranche of DNC emails (the dates or dates on which those files were “liberated” is another one of those pesky details that the IT experts cannot nail down).

    Like the Steele report and other enticing documents, the computer/internet age offers almost no protection against people making multiple copies that are then “shopped” around or freely distributed looking for a “nibble” of interest.

    Assange has great respect and longstanding ties to both MacFayden (now deceased) and Murray … AND also appreciates that whatever they have told him is effectively heresay as far as what he (Assange) KNOWS … and in the past, Assange has taken great pains to avoid eager-to-take-credit leakers with burdening him with direct knowledge of their identity (this goes all the way back to Manning, likely before — some leakers really want Assange’s acknowledgement).

    Important lesson here — if you are even being accused of a crime (guilty or innocent) — Do not burden your friends and associates with “your side of the story” lest you place them in the position of being an important witness and/or accomplice.

  35. John Mugge
    August 8, 2017 at 14:51

    A good synopsis of the current situation. However, comparing it to the Cuban Missile Crisis may be a little off. What JFK faced at that time wasn’t just Russia, Cuba, and the missiles. He had a CIA and a Joint Chiefs of Staff all in favor a preemptive nuclear strike on Cuba and Russia. They all thought tens of millions dead was acceptable. Check out JFK and the Unspeakable, by James W Douglas.

  36. alley cat
    August 8, 2017 at 14:00

    “Shortly after his murder, WikiLeaks, which has denied receiving the emails from the Russian government, posted a Tweet offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to the solution of the mystery of who killed Rich.”

    Assange is saying that Seth Rich is the leaker, but he can’t come out and say so any more directly because it might dry up future sources if he did. I saw the video where Assange offered that reward, and there’s no other possible interpretation of his remarks. He told us it was Rich, for anyone who cares to listen. (I care to listen, but I don’t know about other Americans.)

  37. MaDarby
    August 8, 2017 at 11:51

    This us all quite interesting, yet I can’t help feeling that again energy is being drained away from the far more important issue of the tensions – high tensions – between the US and Russia — and not only Russia but the US is threatening ALL its “enemies” with nuclear war. It seems they have “bundled” the for horses of their delusional apocalyptic world view and there is this talk of a “global strike” which I guess means nuking them all at once, whatever the strategy though, the policy goal for decades and the march toward it have not changed “Global full spectrum domination.”

    It is like – even under Obama you could see it – (does anyone believe the “Pivot to Asia” was just dreamed up during the Obama presidency?) and now – do you think Trump himself ordered those B1-B Lancer long range nuclear bombers to fly around near China and make dummy nuclear bomb drops? Do you think Trump ordered construction to begin on the new Naval base in Ukraine?

    Maybe I really have a distorted view but it really looks like two different things the civilian government and the underlying empire operating with its own agenda – world domination.

    I think of it like the Terminator – which is the hideous/ruthless monster robot with schwarzenegger skin – we are late in the movie now and some of the skin has been ripped off and we can parts of the hideous/ruthless robot showing through.

    To paraphrase Larry Wilkerson – there are a lot more John Boltons around policy circles than you might think. (see interview: http://therealnews.com/t2/story:19718:Wilkerson%3A-Trump-is-Clueless-on-North-Korea

    • Bob Van Noy
      August 8, 2017 at 12:11

      Thanks MaDarby, for what it’s worth, I agree…

    • Bob Van Noy
      August 8, 2017 at 12:06

      Thank you, Michael Weddle. Please keep up the good work…

    • August 8, 2017 at 12:27

      Michael…Thanks Michel, I concur with your conclusion.

    • Virginia
      August 8, 2017 at 16:02

      Michael, saw your link. Not sure your time line works. In fact, you didn’t give dates so…

  38. delia ruhe
    August 8, 2017 at 11:44

    This article seems to frighten readers. Interesting . . .

    August 8, 2017 at 10:13


      August 8, 2017 at 10:33

      Thank you Richard A Feibel, and if you’re right that sounds like MLK.

    • Joe Tedesky
      August 8, 2017 at 10:50

      Read this…


      All I know is a fellow by the name of Jack Burkman popped up claiming to represent the Rich family interest. Burkman is the one pushing the ‘Russians did it’ narrative.

      I would also imagine that the Rich family is not only dealing with their grief of losing Seth, but that they are living inside a mixture of swirling happenings of what’s going on in regard to Seth’s murder. Keeping the Rich family in this suspended condition, is no doubt helping to get a story out, which will diffuse any notion that a DNC hit was ordered on young Seth.

      • Bob Van Noy
        August 8, 2017 at 12:39

        Yes, Joe. My hope is that the better forces (clearly out there) protect This Wonderful American Family.

        • Joe Tedesky
          August 8, 2017 at 23:24

          Bob everyone I know here in my corner of the universe feels for this family’s loss. I always say, how I hope I never have to bury one of my children, or grandchildren, for that in my estimation of life’s sorrows has to be one of the worst, if not the worst of a tragedy for a family or parent to deal with.

          Your a good man Bob, and you don’t always need to agree with me to remain my friend (yeah your my friend even though we communicate on a computer). In fact, I wish everyone who doesn’t agree with me on everything, were as gentlemanly and well mannered, as you always are with all of us, and me.

          Stay cool. Joe

      • DFC
        August 8, 2017 at 13:33

        I think they have the Russian’s nailed cold on this, no matter how it goes down. My analysis is as follows:

        1] If the DNC server was hacked, the CrowdStrike analysis clearly shows the Russians did it.

        2] If the DNC server was not hacked, then it was a Russian mole inside the DNC (Seth Rich) that downloaded the emails.

        3] If the DNC server was not hacked, and the emails were not downloaded, then we must ask how it was done? And what nation that could possess such cutting edge technology? The KGB was once doing ESP research, which now might be finally bearing fruit??? So again, we are back to the Russians as the only possible culprits.

        • Skip Scott
          August 8, 2017 at 16:02


          You’re full of poo. Vault 7 releases show that the CIA can fake point of origin. They can say anything and pin it on anyone.
          Read the VIPS article at this site. What evidence do you have that Seth Rich was a Russian mole? I find the VIPS article compelling, and William Binny is one of the smartest guys in the business, and he doesn’t think it was the Russians. Is he a Russian mole too?

        • Dan Pejchl
          August 8, 2017 at 17:16

          Comey himself questioned why russians were so loud during dnc hack..

        • dave
          August 8, 2017 at 17:28

          Explain why only emails from 7 DNC employees were leaked to wikileaks.

          If putins top spies had access, why not release emails from Debbie Wasserman Schultz and other top officials.

          Elite hackers would have made a copy of the entire server.

        • Joe Tedesky
          August 9, 2017 at 00:03

          DFC you seem to be throughly convinced that the Russians hacked the DNC computers, but the VIP report dispels that accusation all the way to hell and back. If the DNC election committee along with Podesta and Hillary were so innocent as some would like us to believe, then why weren’t the DNC computers handed over to the FBI, instead of to the Atlantic Councils CrowdStrike affiliate? Then you purposely confuse the story even further by bringing up the Russian mole subject, and suggest that this insider may have been the late Seth Rich, really? Lastly, you make it sound as though no other nation could have the know how to do such a security breach, and with this you blame it on Russia. Did you ever hear of the CIA Vault 7? Did you ever hear of the CIA/Mossad working side by side? Isn’t Israel filled to the brim with computer wizards? Ask an Iranian about Stuxnet, then get back to me.

          In a simpler way let me use this illustration. If a woman was murdered, most police detectives would first start the interrogation process by working their way out from the victims relationships. Starting with the dead woman’s husband, if she had one, and if not the police would look at the person the most closest to the woman when she were a live. In other words, the cops wouldn’t start by investigating the neighbors, let alone the guy who lives 3 blocks away from the murdered hypothetical female, unless the police had specific evidence prompting them to investigate there first. Doing an investigation any other way, is just not that efficient. Just like RussiaGate, it’s a waste of time, to investigate by any other method.

          I’m sorry DFC, your equation of this, is just not evidence worthy. In fact it makes no sense to blame the Russians, unless that is, you believe everything Joy Reid and Rachel Maddow tell you. You know Rachel the talking head who takes 20 minutes to tell you a 2 second thing.

          Take care DFC, and start reading consortiumnews archives, it may help for you to see where I’m coming from. Joe

        • Deborah
          August 12, 2017 at 15:12

          You forget the fact that any hacker can make it look like CrowdStrike–including our own intelligence agencies. And they do indeed have this capability–have you not kept up with the intel leaks that the Intelligence agencies were so angry about that happened in Q1 of this year that were clearly leaked documents from our intelligence agencies stating how they hack into almost any country/agency and they can use methods to make it look like it was China or Russia or you name it.

    • August 8, 2017 at 10:50

      Thanks Richard…there’s a lot to digest here!

    • August 8, 2017 at 11:05

      Thanks for the caps, Richard…there’s a lot to digest here!

    • Pat Goudey O'Brien
      August 10, 2017 at 10:46

      Hmmm, the info I read about a “download” says files were clearly copied and not downloaded — but it also casts doubt on whether they were downloaded first and THEN copied [which is how they acquired the tell-tale metadata of copies]. The articles I’ve read in quarters that do not subscribe to “Russia did it” still cast doubt on the chain-of-custody of those emails from their removal from DNC to their appearance on Wikileaks.

      I’m not convinced in either direction, yet.

  40. Bob Van Noy
    August 8, 2017 at 09:40

    I’ve listened to Seymour Hersh’s tape, I’ll try to link it with my response, and I have the highest regard for him, but I’m going to cling to my own theory that Seth Rich was taken out by some cut-out if not actual Employee of one of our thoroughly corrupt agencies. As Kiza said, rather sarcastically, before leaving the site (briefly) “the first generation is now retiring”! Get that, we continue to pay retirement plus Cadillac Healthcare to a collection of organized criminals.
    Why do I think Mr. Hursch is wrong here? Because any researcher that has followed the Kennedy Assassination will realize, in time, that there are hundreds of stories like this of well meaning American Patriots who have been silenced if not by government then by a formal organization that allows an official organization deniability. I feel as if I know Seth Rich, a fine up-standing American Patriot, my fervent hope is that, in time, his name will be added to a monument, in honor of righteousness. If I’m wrong, fine, he still, exposed a criminal organization the DNC.

    • Bob Van Noy
      August 8, 2017 at 09:57

      The outrage so clearly apparent here is very justified as I’m sure Mr.Hersh has just about had it with this Washington Group.

      Interview here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gYzB96_EK7s

    • Skip Scott
      August 8, 2017 at 12:27

      Yeah, Bob I agree. So far the DNC named a bike rack for him. That doesn’t quite cut it in my book. I’ve listened to the Hersh tape as well, and I didn’t hear him supply any evidence for the botched robbery theory. It was pure speculation. My speculation is that the DNC and the intelligence agencies are in cahoots with this whole “Russia-gate” narrative, and Rich was murdered for the leaks to wikileaks by those same evil bast**rds.

      • Bob Van Noy
        August 8, 2017 at 12:34

        You got it Skip! Thanks so much…

      • Bob Van Noy
        August 8, 2017 at 12:42

        Skip read F.G.’s Response at Unz above, it’s perfect…

        • Skip Scott
          August 8, 2017 at 14:40

          Thanks Bob-

          Glad to see FG back. Checked out the article and Deb Della Piana too. What a great lady!

    • August 8, 2017 at 15:42

      I’ve listened to Hersh’s tape, too. He says the cops obtained Rich’s laptop and found e-mails on it between Seth Rich and Wikileaks. By e-mail, Seth Rich offered tantalizing documents and offered more in exchange for money.

      The Wikileaks site describes their preferred method of obtaining leaks, which doesn’t involve any exchange of e-mail. Instead, it requires the use of Tor software, where the leaker and leakee remain unknown to each other.

      Seth Rich, whose job title was “Voter Expansion Data Director”, probably had enough computer savvy to use Tor communication if he wanted to. Instead, according to Hersh, Rich used his own e-mail account to interact with Wikileaks, thereby leaving a trail.

      Seth Rich, from public accounts, doesn’t seem like a guy who would grub for money by selling DNC data and Podesta e-mails. I could imagine him leaking files because he felt that Bernie Sanders was being treated unfairly, but not for money.

      There’s a possibility that someone was impersonating Seth Rich. This would not be hard for someone who had hands-on and/or administrative access to Rich’s computer(s). In the guise of someone repairing or configuring Rich’s computer, the impersonator could obtain account names and passwords sufficient to facilitate the impersonation.

      Who would such a person be? Most likely it would be the office “IT guy”, who maintains the local network and fixes hardware and software problems at computers on that network. He would need to know those account names and passwords just to do his job.

      With recent revelations about Imran Awan, it seems like he’s a perfect fit for such an impersonator. The one thing we don’t know at this point is, did Imran Awan ever have access to Seth Rich’s computer(s)?

      If Seth Rich did have an impersonator, he would probably realize it and figure out who it was. And if that impersonator knew Rich was onto him, the impersonator would have a motive for murder.

      • Skip Scott
        August 8, 2017 at 15:56

        Interesting theory, and plausible. If Craig Murray actually later picked up a thumb drive, would it have been from Awan? I don’t think the whole batch could have come from a drop box, if I understand correctly. I think these drop boxes are electronic files that require a password, and would therefore been subject to the same speed limitations talked about in the VIPS article.

      • Skip Scott
        August 8, 2017 at 16:21

        I just thought it through some more, and I think the VIPS article only had access to the Guccifer 2.0 stuff, which had been downloaded onto a stick and then doctored to look like the Russians. I suppose the stuff that went to Assange could have been gotten from a drop box, but that would mean Craig Murray was lying about picking it up in DC. It’s all very confusing at this point.

  41. Joe Tedesky
    August 8, 2017 at 09:27

    I’m to the opinion, that the Seth Rich murder, will end up being determined that Rich had been murdered by the Russians. I say this, because already there are articles floating around out here, that Natalia Veselnitskaya had been in contact with Seth Rich, and that the Russians did young Seth in, because the Russians feared Seth would talk about Seth’s relationship with the Russian spies.

    You might remember Natalia Veselnitskaya, because she’s one of the eight Russians who had met with Donald Trump Jr, and Jared Kushner along with Paul Manafort, at Trump Towers where these Russians were said to have exposed dirt on Hillary Clinton. At least that is what’s circulating around the internet, and with this narrative along with the many other narratives that are loosely adding to this story’s confusing intrigue, I have loss hope that the truth will in the end prevail.

    Even Seymour Hersch is claiming the Rich’s murder was a botched robbery. So just like any other cover up, there will be such a variety of motive and cause, that the choices to choose from the who, what, and why, will become to many story versions, as to unravel the many different stories down to the real truth.

    This will be like answering the question to if Oswald knew Jack Ruby prior to the JFK assassination, and you all know how complicated the JFK story has been. Probably the Seth Rich murder, won’t be enough to launch an industry of investigators like the many reporters who still to this day write books about JFK’s demise, but the confusion, and the supplement of various Rich murder theories, will eventually lead the truth seeker down one to many trails of story versions, as to never finally be able to solve anything at all.

    • Bob Van Noy
      August 8, 2017 at 12:01

      “various Rich murder theories, will eventually lead the truth seeker down one to many trails of story versions, as to never finally be able to solve anything at all.” Joe Tedesky

      Joe, I rarely disagree with you but regarding this statement, I will disagree, because It’s necessary that people be outraged by the Seth Rich story. He isn’t the least bit less significant than President Kennedy, his death demands a thorough, open and public investigation with deep press so that People can determine for themselves if justice is being served. Nearly every early skeptic of the JFK Assassination was openly derided by the Press, Popular Culture, and Officialdom, that is what they do. That is why the corruption has metastasized to this. I say let Seth bring the whole corrupt system to public trial.

      • Joe Tedesky
        August 8, 2017 at 12:19

        I hope you are right on this one Bob, but with all the stories, and possibly yet more alternative versions will be yet produced leaves me with much doubt, that the truth will come to be known. Maybe, I am having a negative day, but as I mentioned by comparing the Oswald Ruby connection, and among many other ways the under handed gain the advantage, is because they spread more lies, and mixed in with the truth, they always make sure they confuse the issue, more than it deserves.

      • Virginia
        August 8, 2017 at 12:50

        The “Russians did it” is just another propaganda theory the volunteer (Zionist?) attorney for Rich’s parents, footing his own bill, is trying to lead everyone to believe. Once one gets his thought around the possibility that our political elite actually do have people assassinated — which was the hardest thing I ever came around to accepting, then what seemed inconceivable becomes the “probable.” It seems so clear to me, it wasn’t the Russians. That propaganda plays into the whole Russia hacking and Trump collusion attack, which I sincerely hope will loose traction in the near future. I really love you, Joe, so much, but I believe Bob is right. And I believe Seymour Hersh’s recording, which I have heard, tells the truth about who Seth Rich was and what he was about. Hersh glosses over the murder bit, he doesn’t get into that or speculate — just says it was a dangerous neighborhood! I don’t believe Hersh ruled out a connected murder. And I believe Hersh really does have an FBI friend who gave him this accurate information. But why he wanted to retract all of it and deny he had said it, not knowing he had been recorded, well that’s a puzzle. Someone got to him.

        • Joe Tedesky
          August 8, 2017 at 13:24

          Virginia, I believe that Seth Rich was one of the DNC leakers who Craig Murray met with, and that Seth was the leaker who supplied Wikileaks with the Hillary information that Wikileaks posted. I also believe that it wasn’t the Russians who killed him. If anything the Russians would have protected Seth, as Seth surely would have been considered by the Russians to be a most valuable intelligence asset for sure. My problem I’m having with this whole Seth Rich murder story, is there are now too many stories for the interested public to choose from. I mean which version, Hersch, Burkman, or Sean Hannity, will the public accept? It’s hard to know, but now that there are so many stories being reported we now have a huge smoke screen, whereas with in that fog there lies the truth, but how do you prove it?

          • Virginia
            August 8, 2017 at 14:06

            Hi Joe, I’ve been interested in this case from the get-go, and that of Shawn Lucas as well (the attorney who served papers on DNC and was found dead 2 days later.)
            It makes imminently good sense to me that Rich was murdered as a warning to any other would-be leakers. It makes imminently good sense to me as well to think that a Jewish (name, anyway) lawyer with democratic connections (that’s just coming to me, I’d forgotten that) would want to bandy about that his findings showed evidence that the Russians did it, well he would have good reason to get that story going. Those are my thoughts. (I wish to add here because I didn’t then — I was deeply touched by your response to me a while back. I thank you; I cherish it.)

          • Joe Tedesky
            August 8, 2017 at 15:48

            Yes Virginia, people who tend to associate with the Clinton’s often end up dead. You mentioned Shawn Lucas for instance, his death was attributed to his use of polypharmacy. Yeah to many varieties of drugs will do it every time, but isn’t it funny that poor Shawn dies after serving the DNC a subpoena for interference in the Sanders Campaign?

            Recently a Haitian by the name of Klaus Eberwein committed sucide in Miami. What does rate an alarm bell though, was Klaus Eberwein was going to testify to what he knew about the Clinton Foundation. In fact these three deaths, including Seth’s, are included in a body of a whole lot of mysterious deaths surrounding the Clinton’s. Once again Virginia, if you or I had these many deaths centered around us, we would no doubt be prosecuted and put in jail, for at least one of these deaths.

            I’m glad my writing to you cheered you up, or at least lifted your spirits enough that you found some meaning in whatever it was I wrote to you that day. You seem like a truly good person, and that is something we need more of in this world.

            Stay well Virginia Joe

          • August 8, 2017 at 16:52

            Joe/Virginia…I just got around to reading your thread where Virginia mentions the suspicious timing of the death of Shawn Lucas. As I never heard of the Lucas incident before I looked it up on the web and it mentions three drugs that were attributed to his death. Do you happen to know if he had a prescription for the fatal combo?

          • Joe Tedesky
            August 8, 2017 at 17:34

            Bob H, I did a quick search and couldn’t find anything on Shawn Lucas, and or his drug prescriptions, but since we are on the subject of mysterious murders centered around the Clinton’s, read this….


            About all those deaths of people who knew the Clintons, think of the odds. Think of yourself for instance, and how many murders or suicides if any have ever taken place to those that you associate with. Granted stuff happens, and some people have unbelievably bad luck, and others not so much, but I urge you to do an inventory if you will, of how often you could know any couple or person, and how often so many deaths could happen to anyone knowing that many dead people, as such as in the case of the Clinton’s.

          • August 8, 2017 at 19:18

            Joe…I once discounted the conspiracy theories on Foster’s death et.al. but now I have doubts. However I’m trying to stay focused on the Deep State connection which has so many ominous implications that cross party lines i.e. Danny Casalaro, Seth Rich and possibly Shawn Lucas and John Ashe. Here’s a video that connects the murder of Seth Rich with the deaths of Shawn Lucas and John Ashe.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ps-3NR-L8

          • Joe Tedesky
            August 8, 2017 at 22:17

            BobH thanks for thinking of me by providing the video link.

            Here’s a question for you Bob; wouldn’t it be great if CNN or MSNBC did a five minute segment such as the kind Gary Franchi produced with this video you provided, Bob? Yet, that’s where the System gets us every time. Not as many people will get to see these low budget videos, as opposed to the millions of viewers who will watch, let’s say Rachel Maddow or Anderson Cooper. The public’s perception is that big is more reliable, that big means it must be true, and if big doesn’t aire it then it must not matter, or this story isn’t big enough to make the national/international news.

            For all these years we Americans have been watching television, you would think that by now we viewers would have figured out the many tricks and lies which we are told everyday, but it appears that we Americans haven’t matured that much, as we viewers still seem to buy what their selling. Which leaves me to wonder, that possibly all this tv watching has seriously dumbed us all down. So once again, my fifth grade nun was right, too much tv is bad for you.

            Thanks again Bob. Joe

          • Marko
            August 9, 2017 at 06:55

            Shawn Lucas cause of death per medical examiner :

            “Cause: Combined adverse effects of fentanyl, cyclobenzaprine, and mitragynine ( from kratom )
            Manner: Accident
            The office does not release further details under law.”


            Jared Beck ( plaintiffs’ lawyer in DNC lawsuit ) is suspicious , as standard tox screens wouldn’t pick up a mixture like this. A higher-tech screen could have been done at the request of the family , I suppose. The investigation of the Lucas death has been similar to that of Rich , i.e. , there was no investigation.

          • August 9, 2017 at 11:25

            Marko…thanks for the Lucas medical report…Joe…I totally agree with you on MSM TV, but you know it’s not going to happen!

        • Litchfield
          August 9, 2017 at 11:36

          “Once one gets his thought around the possibility that our political elite actually do have people assassinated — which was the hardest thing I ever came around to accepting, then what seemed inconceivable becomes the “probable.” ”
          Virginia: Absolutely.
          See my later post on this thread.
          Once we accept that assassination and rubbing out is part of the American political culture we can all breathe in the fresh air (of truth/reality) and focus on uncovering the reality. And why wouldn’t this be the case? The Mob is also intricately involved in every level of the American economy and its politics (same thing in most cases). So, mob hits and govt. hits are more like gang warfare on the “clean streets” of Anywhere, USA.

    • F. G. Sanford
      August 8, 2017 at 12:12

      Joe, I’d encourage CN readers to check out a you tube account listed under the name, deb della piana. She reminds me of the feisty Italian lady that worked in the school cafeteria when I was a kid. Her style is “direct”, but boy does she cut right to the heart of all these issues. She provides some of the most concise synopses of these issues on the net, kind of the Little Italy version of “Diamond and Silk” – concise, documented and rational. She needs to go viral. While you’re at it, check out my comment under Giraldi’s latest article at Unz dot com. The MSM is going to great lengths to falsely characterize the identity of the so-called deep state. In reality, the Poster Boy is Robert Mueller. This comment is awaiting moderation. Things change, but they don’t.

      • Bob Van Noy
        August 8, 2017 at 12:24

        F.G.! Welcome back! Here is the link to Giraldi’s article. Note what Wassermam-Schultz Brother is doing…


      • Bob Van Noy
        August 8, 2017 at 12:33

        Thank You F. G. Sanford.

      • Virginia
        August 8, 2017 at 12:56

        Thank you, F G, I look forward to doing that research. Let’s make it go viral if we possibly can.

        • Virginia
          August 8, 2017 at 13:12

          I searched and found a 2008 article by deb della piano, but nothing else. Please send the link if possible.

          • F. G. Sanford
            August 8, 2017 at 13:20

            Go to YouTube and type in deb della piana – piana with an “a”, not a pianoforte with an “o”. This lady cuts right through all the sludge in the deep swamp. Ciao!

          • Bob Van Noy
            August 8, 2017 at 13:27

            Virginia, I actually went to the you tube site and it disappeared. Google.

          • Bob Van Noy
            August 8, 2017 at 13:41

            Try this: it’s precious: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9EUh-L6x7KY

          • Bob Van Noy
            August 8, 2017 at 13:47

            This lady, and she Is A Lady; should be Attorney General! She’d clean up this mess quickly…

          • Virginia
            August 8, 2017 at 13:48

            I was afraid it had been deleted. We must ask F. G. Sanford to tell us all about it (verbatim, please). Thank you.

          • Bob Ban Noy
            August 8, 2017 at 14:33

            Here we go, she has numerous articles at Op-ed News, a site I like a lot…


            I can’t edit the mistyping of my name…

      • Joe Tedesky
        August 8, 2017 at 13:14

        F.G. I left a reply to your unz comment post. I hope you see it, but I didn’t say anything much different on unz than I’m saying here on this site today. Now that all these stories are starting to be spun over the Rich murder, I have my doubts that the Seth Rich story will hold up against all of the prevailing narratives, which are being put forward about Seth’s violent death. It’s a shame, and you F.G. understand probably more than most, that this kind of piling on of false claims and phony suspects is more than par for the course, of a CIA/Mossad operation to hide the truth.

      • Skip Scott
        August 8, 2017 at 14:13

        Hi F.G.-

        Welcome back. Thanks for the links. I don’t know why you get moderated so much. Your comments seem completely “in bounds” to me. The complete lack of interest from the MSM regarding the Awan case and the Rich case tells me this is way bigger than the “nothing burger” of Russia-gate. I hope it gets blown wide open and becomes to big for the MSM to ignore.

      • Skip Scott
        August 8, 2017 at 14:39

        Hi again F.G.-

        Thanks so much for turning me on to Deb Della Piana! What a great lady! Just gotta love her.

      • August 8, 2017 at 14:58

        Welcome back, F.G. and thanks for the Daily Dose…she was really gooooood!(thanks for the link,BobV)

      • Joe Tedesky
        August 8, 2017 at 23:06

        Hey F.G. I just finished watching Deb Della Piana. While watching and listening to Deb, I had a brief walk back in time. You see growing up in a heavily populated Italian community, I had the pleasure of knowing a couple of women, who Deb reminded me of with her words and actions. I like people like Ms Della Piana, because they are straight shooters, or in other words their word is their bond, and that’s no bullshit. Della Piana’s street smart analogies is so much more pertinent and constructive over any of the editorial soup our MSM serves us, so much so that I would rally behind this good woman to replace her against the likes of Fareed Zakaria, or Chuck Todd, anytime.

        Ps Deb Della Piana is trying to rally a Seth Rich March this Thursday July 10th. The video of Della Piana where she made this announcement, was dated July 7, 2017 in case anyone wants to check it out.

        Great referral F.G. Thanks Joe

      • Dr. Truth
        August 9, 2017 at 18:48

        F G, you are one twisted dude. That link could have been my mother, 20 years ago.
        Thanks man. Keep doing what you’re doing.

    • DFC
      August 8, 2017 at 13:03

      Joe, this sounds plausible and adds to my FSB incompetence hypothesis theory above.

      I think it should be clear and unequivocal, from the Crowdstrike analysis, that the Russians were all over the DNC server. And the hacking job was so inept that Crowdstrike didn’t need FBI/NSA help in attributing the hacking determination. There was Cyrillic language left in the hack code that directly pointed to FancyBear and CozyBear, the two notorious, hacking “front companies” used by the Russian secret services.

      So, my guess is that someone with a brain (probably a few left) in the FSB, realized what a botch job the Russian hacking groups made of this, and needed to take the heat off of the Russian connection. This is where the assassination of Seth Rich falls perfectly in to place. The assassination itself also adds to my FSB incompetence narrative. In the old days, if the KGB wanted to make an assassination look like a robbery, they would have pulled it off seamlessly. But instead, the new FSB does not have a clue about how to do this anymore. Also, as Natalia Veselnitskaya, does not speak English, and required a translator to communicate with Trump (and with Rich), there is an intermediary interpreter around, as a loose end, that will soon be “talking” once the NSA/CIA/FBI/Mueller gets around to arresting and interrogating him/her.

      While Russia is an existential threat to the United States and must be taken very seriously, at least Americans can take solace that their intelligence agencies are so degraded that a Nigerian Scam Operation has more capability. This makes me wonder if all of the new planes and tanks Putin is supposedly developing are not just “paper-mache” mock-ups. The NYT just published a piece describing how backward and primitive the Russian people are living these days under Putin, which probably means the FSB is likewise backward and primitive too. I think all the dots are finally connecting here!

      • Joe Tedesky
        August 8, 2017 at 13:39

        Sorry DFC I don’t agree with your theory. In fact, your posting this narrative proves my point, that the Seth Rich story will be inside of a great media vacuum, and that the real truth will never be able to be determined, because of all the various stories which arose from Seth’s murder.

        One thing that boggles the mind, is what was the reason for Donna Brazile calling the D.C. Police and her grilling them over what they were doing with Seth’s murder investigation. I would also imagine that if the DNC did think that the Russians were behind Seth’s sudden death, that the DNC would have been out in front in our media demanding an arrest of these supposed Russian killers.

        So you see DFC I won’t be buying into the concept that the Russians had anything to do with the Rich murder, because I feel Rich’s death was an exclusively made in America product.

        • Marko
          August 9, 2017 at 07:07

          Exactly , Joe. The comprehensiveness of the cover-up – and the almost-laughably aggressive vilification of any probing by outside investigators – tells you all you need to know. If the insiders truly thought it was a Russian plot , they’d be looking for proof from any source that could provide it.

          • Joe Tedesky
            August 9, 2017 at 09:32

            Thanks that’s good know.

      • Sam F
        August 8, 2017 at 18:34

        DFC, you should be well aware that your statements are false.
        1. The Crowdstrike crap “analysis” is so discredited that it discredits those who take it seriously.
        2. The Cyrillic in hacking traces is inserted by Ukrainian hack code published by NSA, so nothing there.
        3. If “the hacking job was so inept” it was not done by any government agency, unless to blame others.
        4. No government agency would be “notorious” for using a single scheme.
        5. FancyBear and CozyBear were schemes available to anyone, not “front companies” of a certain nation.
        6. No nation would have done in Rich as a source coverup for data already released.
        7. No state security agency would be so incompetent, which is why people thought you were joking.
        8. Let’s hear your evidence that “Russia is an existential threat” to the US vs. the zionist/MIC warmongers.

  42. Robert
    August 8, 2017 at 09:10

    When Mueller was appointed special prosecutor he was lauded and praised to the skies by all the big names in Washington. Now Colleen Rowley, who worked in the FBI indicates she doesn’t believe Mueller has any integrity. What is the truth? How about a little cut bono analysis. Mueller is going to protect the establishment and they are therefore gilding his reputation which will help them and also Mueller is having his payment in d vance in the form of his reputation enhancement, a valuable asset in his business. Colleen Rowley’s assessment of Mueller provides little benefit to her. So I weigh what she says more than that of the establishment.

    • August 8, 2017 at 10:44

      Yes, Robert…I agree Rowley’s assessment of Mueller doesn’t portend well for any revelations coming from the Mueller Report. I was confounded by Hersh’s apparent trust in a dubious confidant and the possibility that his source may be compromised. Also, the article doesn’t mention why Hersch asserts Rich’s murder was not connected to the leak. Was he trying to deflect those involved off his trail? The article sheds light on the mystery but the web of intrigue has become even more complex.

      • Sunset
        August 8, 2017 at 12:17

        Bob, Interesting that you mention Hersh’s conjecture that Seth’s death was not connected to his DNC leaked emails. I’ve listened to the tape. He says Seth lived in a rough neighborhood. But he overlooks, as does Laurie, that a male nurse at the hospital where Seth was taken has published, at the risk of his job, various unusual happenings at the hospital surrounding Seth’s admittance — including how FBI officials were all over the place, how Seth was in stable condition and expected to fully recover after the operation, how his room was shut off and all hospital personnel banned, and so on. This can readily be found on the internet.

        It seems that Hersh, like FOX, got quickly shut up after reporting/learning about Seth Rich’s being the leaker. Ad sponsors,
        and …blackmail? Seth had $2000 on him and several hours unaccounted for. Blackmail? Talk about conspiracy theories, maybe this is just too much to consider! But could that be what Seth meant by “your problem”? Could that be what his parents and brother do not want anyone to learn about him? why they are complicit in the whole extended cover-up? Of course, we must and do have compassion for them at the tragic loss of their son, but many parents would think Seth a son to be proud of if acting as a conscientious whistleblower. Hersh did say that Seth asked for money after submitting a sampling of the DNC emails to Wikileaks. It could be that after Seth’s murder, one of his friends with access to his dropbox continued the leakage, if it was not all done before. Whoever had access might have been too frightened after the murder to do anything, but it would be nice if they would come forward. What are we actually facing, bravery or cowardice among the actors in this intriguing episode of human history?

        Interested to know what you all think, though feeling this is treading in dangerous territory.

        • Bob Van Noy
          August 8, 2017 at 12:47

          It is, and I agree.

        • August 8, 2017 at 14:37

          Yes, Sunset, the hospital environment adds yet another dimension to the mystery. The money found on him, however, could easily have been a plant and is especially suspicious as the attack was supposed to have been a bungled robbery! The anonymous friend was identified as Kim(?) in one report I read(I forget the source). If he exists he must be shitting in his pants by now, because in this story it is hard to know who to trust, at least as far as government agents go.

        • PJ London
          August 9, 2017 at 06:31

          In my view, the shooting of Rich was certainly a botched robbery. Professionals would have used .40 or larger, soft nosed bullets and put two in the heart and one in the head. Whilst he was wounded, he was not fatally wounded, per the ER doctors and eyewitnesses. I think that it then became an opportunistic killing in the hospital, once they had an excuse “Robbery and Shooting”. No questions would have been asked had not a couple of doctors in ER started talking.
          I do not know if you have ever been visited by American Intelligence (now there is an oxymoron for you), but having had a visit by another countries security branch, I can assure you that only a very brave or very foolish person fails to follow their ‘suggestions’. If you have children, grand-children or any affection for your wife and siblings, you follow orders. 300,000 young children ‘go missing’ in the US each year, another two or three will not be noticed. ‘Taken’ was a documentary not fiction.
          ‘The boys on the Tracks’ , Arkansas Troopers, Seal Team 6, Forster, and hundreds of others are (no longer) witness to what happens if you cross the powerful.
          Vaccines and Cancer result in the deaths of dozens of very healthy ‘Holistic Doctors’.
          9/11, OK City, the list is endless.
          Hersch is not a fool and knows where the line is drawn. He is smart enough to provide the ‘Official Narrative ” in such a way that anyone with an IQ higher than a policeman (or a brick), will think that there is something not quite right about that narrative. His bonus is that he gets to write another day,

          • August 9, 2017 at 17:30

            …more likely professionals would have hired a couple of neighborhood thugs to make it look like a botched robbery.

  43. Sam F
    August 8, 2017 at 08:59

    It appears that the FBI/NSA could at least reveal much of the info they have on whether Rich had such conversations/emails/dropboxes suggesting a direct/indirect offer of DNC emails to Wikileaks. Surely not all such info must be secret to protect ongoing investigation/sources. Odd that they did not simply seize and analyze the Rich computer.or the DNC servers.

    • Deborah
      August 12, 2017 at 15:06

      They are corrupt, many of the appointees/employees are in positions attained over the last 8 years when Obama was in office. and from my research–the Bushes and the Clintons might as well be family–so you literally have decades of persons who are bent on keeping the establishment in place. When you have the few who really put country first inside these agencies–they are either destroyed or end up being killed in a plane crash, committing suicide in some weird way, or being murdered. That is my opinion.

  44. Michael Kenny
    August 8, 2017 at 08:49

    One of the things about the defamation laws is that you can’t defame a dead person. How convenient therefore that Rich is dead! Anyone can say anything they like about Seth Rich and no one can sue them for it. It’s all just too convenient. Mr Lauria tells us that “Assange said WikiLeaks never reveals its sources. Yet, it appeared to be an indirect way of naming Rich, while formally maintaining WikiLeak’s policy. An alternative view would be to believe that Assange is cynically using Rich’s death to divert the trail from the real source”. Personally, I prefer the latter option. Assange is not so stupid as to claim not to reveal his sources and then point the finger directly at Rich in a manner that no one could fail to understand. The established facts are that Russians claiming to act on behalf of their government offered Trump Junior DNC “dirt”. Subsequently, DNC dirt did indeed appear on the internet via WikiLeaks. Whether the dirt was leaked or hacked changes nothing. Russians promised DNC dirt, WikiLeaks delivered DNC dirt. In fact, if anything, a leak is a far more serious situation than a hack. A leak means that Russian interests, whether public or private, have infiltrated the DNC and the attempt to divert attention to Rich suggests that the mole is still there. That, in its turn, raises the question of just how many US bodies or institution have been infiltrated by those Russian interests, which might easily be the Russian Mafia. Thus, a Russian hack is actually much less damaging to Putin than an insider leak. Indeed, the “hack v leak” dispute is rather silly. It’s like saying that a person has been wrongly charged with murder because the prosecution claims he shot the victim, whereas the accused in fact stabbed the victim!

    • Sam F
      August 8, 2017 at 09:11

      1. It is not “established fact” that Russians more than others “promised DNC dirt”, what it was, or that any government was involved.
      2. The emails are apparently correct, not “DNC dirt” but evidence that the DNC is dirt.
      3. You offer no evidence or argument whatsoever to suggest that Russia was involved in either a leak or a hack.
      4. Whoever was involved did a great service to the US by revealing corruption of the DNC.
      5. Your effort to fearmonger about a “Russian Mafia” or unusual international infiltration show improper motive. Why do you not fear infiltration by the numerous other opponents of the US? Why do you not fear the extensive infiltration of the US government and the DNC by Israeli agents? Because you are a zionist troll, vilifying Russia for disrupting the Israeli plan for theft of land and resources in the Mideast, as you have often shown here.

      • Nancy
        August 8, 2017 at 09:52

        Thanks for countering this guys’ pathetic disinformation efforts!

      • linda Doucett
        August 8, 2017 at 10:16

        you stole my words

        • Sam F
          August 8, 2017 at 17:49

          Oh well, feel free to use them next time!

      • Skip Scott
        August 8, 2017 at 12:13

        Sam F-

        Thank you for this rational rebuttal. I have had about enough of Mr. Kenny’s BS. He uses this site to spout this same narrative over and over, and acts like he is “above” refuting all of our well-reasoned, fact-based rebuttals. I have to give Mr Parry credit for his tolerance, I would have 86’d Mr. Kenny long ago. I don’t mind differing points of view, but his cowardly hit and run tactics infuriate me.

        • Sam F
          August 8, 2017 at 12:58

          Yes, he is apparently a hired drone, hitting one site and proceeding to the next without reasoning or followup.

        • Virginia
          August 9, 2017 at 13:46

          Skip, I agree with your rebuttal of Kenny, but he’s not the only one! Several of the 134 comments (as of now) contain ideas that seem to add lie to lie, geared to throw confusion on the MUCH evidence which points to Seth Rich as the leaker and to a “highest confidance” that he was assassinated for it. I followed up on one of the trolls (it wasn’t too difficult) and learned he avidly supports ousting Trump. Can his theory (conspiracy) be trusted as genuine, or evidence based? No, no matter how cleverly pulled together. I see that in this conversation, but most of us, I do believe, want the truth wherever it lay — but this hasn’t been as clear in this thread to me. Maybe there are more “overthrow Trump” readers of CN than I thought!

          • Thomas
            August 9, 2017 at 15:05

            I agree Seth Rich was the leaker, but there is no proof that he was murdered for it.

            Rich could also have leaked it to the Russians. The Russians could have killed Rich.

            Any of these conspiracies have as much creedence as Rich being murdered for the leak.

          • Skip Scott
            August 10, 2017 at 08:27


            When I look at the photo of Rich wearing an American Flag outfit, I find it hard to believe he leaked to the Russians. Much more likely he was disgruntled over the DNC manipulation of the primaries, and Hillary’s blatant lies to the American people on the campaign trail. I think you have been drinking too much of the “evil Ruskies” kool-ade. In thinking the Russians are culpable, you would have to believe that Craig Murray, William Binny, and Julian Assange are all in league with the Russians. If you read the recent article by VIPS here at CN and still believe the Russians did it, you may as well go back to listening to Rachel Madcow and reading the NYT.

          • Skip Scott
            August 10, 2017 at 08:33

            Yes Virginia, I do think that most of us here want the truth wherever it lay, and I do believe there are those that want Trump out by whatever means. I am no fan of Trump, but I think we need to reclaim our republic from the deep state oligarchs, and their lackeys in the MSM and the intelligence agencies. Until that is achieved, it makes no difference who is president.

    • Joe Lauria
      August 8, 2017 at 09:42

      My understanding is that it was a British entertainment promotor who promised “dirt”, not the Russians. He is not a spokesman for the Russian government. And just what was in that blue folder offered to Don Jr.? According to him, the offer of “dirt” was just a come-on to get him to attend a meeting about the Magnitsky Act. The idea that Russians infiltrated the DNC to perpetrate a leak is one of the wildest speculations I’ve hear yet, coming right out of Joe McCarthy’s playbook.

      • Joe Tedesky
        August 8, 2017 at 10:16

        Rob Goldstone was the intermediate between Trump Jr and the Russians. I might add that I too feel that the only link to giving the Trump people any dirt on Hillary being Rob Goldstone, leaves a lot to the imagination to how Trump Jr was aiding and embedding with any real honest to goodness Russian government officials, when it was Goldstone, an English citizen, who had said anything to Trump about getting the dirt on Hillary. Goldstone’s email wording ‘of dirt on Hillary’ is the only smoking gun to this story, and it’s coming from a wannabe big shot in England, and not from an unsavory Russian official who has ties to Vladimir Putin. Just like everything else these days, this story has been spun to be what the spinners intended it to be, a story of deep seated Russian intrigue, and the beat goes on.

        • MEJanssen
          August 8, 2017 at 17:35

          Yup, it was Goldstone’s attempt at notoriety and possibly bragging rights to supposed “connections.” Maybe he got lucrative contracts with other third parties for publicity work as a result of this “scandal,” which even if it resulted in nothing is still something he can add to his CV.

          • Joe Tedesky
            August 8, 2017 at 23:08

            I would look for DNC pay stubs.

          • backwardsevolution
            August 9, 2017 at 02:09

            Joe – “I would look for DNC pay stubs.” No kidding! That’s funny, Joe.

      • l kay
        August 9, 2017 at 12:49

        Yes, the Russians in the room were a compbination of anti-sanctions lobbyists and potential business partners for the Trumps. Being smart it is far more likely the Russians would have bribed both sides that gambel on influencing the outcome of the election.

        It is far far cheaper to bribe.See http://recusal.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/ROI-by-Rob-Hager.pdf

        Relying on American voters to respond intelligently to information relevant to their own interests is a fools errand. And then they would have to bribe anyway, after the price of the bribe had increased for an incumbent.

        The Russia election fixing theory is an insult to the intelligence of the overwhelming majority who have figured out that US politics is systemically corrupt , something Russians, Israelis and the whole world must know from experience. See Ben Freeman, The Foreign Policy Auction (2012)

      • Virginia
        August 9, 2017 at 13:57

        Mr. Lauria, Thank you for your article and comments. You said just above, “My understanding is that it was a British entertainment promotor who promised “dirt”, not the Russians. He is not a spokesman for the Russian government.”

        That’s why it’s infuriating to hear news casters continually say “Russian officials.” It’s rather like the Hillary email “matter,” isn’t it? Most disconcerting!

        • Virginia
          August 10, 2017 at 12:56

          About the word “conspiracy”!
          People who keep themselves informed, connect dots and publish them, are accused of developing conspiracy theories. It’s more likely that people such as they are uncovering conspiracies, not coming up with them. Isn’t it interesting that conspiracy-theorists accusations, hurled at exposers, are likely coming from those complicit in an overall cover-up of enormous dangerous proportions; that is, helping to cover up actual conspiracies conducted against We the People as well as many countries abroad? Isn’t that what Deep [Dark] State is all about?

          It’s probably too late to be posting this comment here, but this scenario is one of telling the truth and then having the lie turned against oneself. The honorable bold are accused of what the culprits are guilty of! And we hardly ever see the word “conspiracy” used in an applicable meaning of that word. At least, that’s as it seems to me. Maybe we should try to turn that word around again, at least a little.

      • August 10, 2017 at 14:20

        As the author of this article I have a question; you quote Assange as stating that “Whistle-blowers go to significant efforts to get us material and often very significant risks,” Assange said. “As a 27-year-old, works for the DNC, was shot in the back, murdered just a few weeks ago for unknown reasons as he was walking down the street in Washington.” —- I find it rather strange that a potential thief would choose to shoot him in the back and kill him prior to robbing him … I do realize 1) I don’t know any of the real evidence concerning the robbery and shooting, and 2) it is certainly within the realm of possibility that the thief would choose to kill him prior to committing the robbery, but it still seems off-kilter not to just knock him off-balance and grab whatever he could get, rather than choosing to begin by shooting him in the back.

        • Sandra Rilea
          August 11, 2017 at 23:31

          And why, if there were no witnesses to this robbery, would the thief fail to take any of the victims valuables? His phone, cash, jewelry were all still on him. Seth was talking on the phone to his girlfriend. His hands, knees, and face were bruised, he was shot twice in the back, and was still alive for an hour and a half after transported to the hospital. Dozens of cameras in the area but no footage available because neighbors/business owners say the police never asked for it.

    • Adrian Engler
      August 8, 2017 at 10:07

      It is certainly not an established fact that Russians claiming to act on behalf of their government offered Trump Junior “dirt”. The only person about whom it is known that he made such a claim about a Russian government effort to support Trump is Rob Goldstone. It would certainly be interesting to find out more about why he made such a claim, but Rob Goldstone can hardly be treated as a definitive authority.

      The unproven claims by Rob Goldstone suggest that there is some official court document from the general prosecutor (Goldstone writes “crown prosecutor”, an office that does not exist in Russia, of course) that implicates Hillary Clinton in a negative way. It is quite a big leap to identify such a hypothetical court document with leaked e-mails from the DNC itself just by calling both entities (a hypothetical court document in Russia that may not exist and leaked e-mails from the DNC that were then published by Wikileaks) “dirt”.

      ” A leak means that Russian interests, whether public or private, have infiltrated the DNC”
      This is just plainly absurd. The presupposition seems to be that the only ones who might be interested about getting information about the DNC’s biased behavior in the primaries and other problematic actions by the DNC to the public were Russians.
      This is the kind of statement you get when some unproven allegation (like in this case blaming Russia) is taken as a given and all possible explanations are interpreted in a way that they fit with this unproven allegation.

    • DFC
      August 8, 2017 at 12:29

      A good analysis. You connect a lot of interesting dots! But one of the things that is apparent here that you don’t mention, which I think has bearing, is what appears to be the UTTER INCOMPETENCE of the FSB (formerly KGB).

      1] First, they contacted the Trump Campaign in such a public way, using a British entertainment mogul, who used his real name and put the intent and purpose of the meeting in plain type (“this is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is a part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump”), so it was open for all to see, including the NSA that collects this type of information. In the old days, the KGB used pseudonyms, coded messages, secure communication channels and dead drops, etc for this kind of work.

      2] Then on top of that, the envoy / agent they chose to convey the information, Natalia Veselnitskaya, does not speak English, and required a translator to communicate with the Trumps and additionally needed to petition the DOJ for a special Visa needed to enter the United States. It used to be the KGB would use fluent English speakers as agents and they would take care not identify themselves to the DHS/DOJ/FBI, etc.

      3] Next, the meeting carelessly included so many people and was held in a public place. This is very different than the Cold War/Watergate Era when Deep Throat type characters insisted on meeting at night in dimly lit parking garages.

      4] After all of this FSB effort (admittedly bungled, but still substantial) they offered no “taste” of the DNC documents for the Trump Campaign to assess, and apparently were so incoherent, one of the key people they were trying to entice, Jared Kushner, left the meeting by staging a phony call. In the old days, the KGB would have offered one document as “evidence” they had the goods and there was more from the same source. Instead they went off on a tangent (Magnitsky Act) which irritated the Trump Team. This would never have happened in the old days.

      So, if we read between the lines, Putin’s vaunted FSB, the CIA of Russia, seems to be a paper tiger compared to our CIA and NSA. Yes, the CIA and NSA have problems (many leakers), but hopefully the FSB will be seen after this, by the entire world, as a complete JOKE.

      • glitch
        August 8, 2017 at 12:38

        Nice satire!

    • EugeneGur
      August 8, 2017 at 12:58

      “A leak means that Russian interests, whether public or private, have infiltrated the DNC”.

      Are you saying that no one in the US is interested in the democratic primaries being by the book? I’d say that if indeed the information of the electoral fraud committed by DNC was leaked by an insider, this suggests that there are still honest people in the Democratic party who care about the integrity of the “American democracy” we hear so much about these days.

      If it was exclusively “Russian interest” that revealed that information, this means that nobody in America gives a damn about fraud or cheating in the election as long as a person suitable for the special interests is elected.

      Your post is one of the best examples of perverse “logic” I have seen outside Ukraine. For goodness’ sake, you aren’t Ukraine; the US aspires to be a superpower after all – act like one. Stop blaming Putin for everything that happens and look in the mirror. Otherwise, you might need Russian mafia to keep America on track.

      • Sam F
        August 8, 2017 at 17:56

        Yes, we can only hope that the “Russian Mafia” or whomever is able will continue to infiltrate both parties and reveal everything. That would utterly discredit them both, a first step in the restoration of democracy. Go, FSB! We need a federal agency to do this, or the FSB may decide that we aren’t paying our way.

    • Who D. Who
      August 9, 2017 at 10:00

      You are seriously deluded. I suggest you stop watching TV and cease reading The New York Times and the Washington Post. You may experience withdrawal symptoms at first, but you will be the better for it, believe me!

    • Edgar A.
      August 10, 2017 at 11:38

      Not sure how Michael Kenny’s comments are indicative of “trolling”

      Assange and Hersh doublespeak on this stuff raises legitimate questions–and neither Assange nor Hersh have supplied sufficient responses. Hersh’s palling up with the anti-Magnitsky Act crowd (same folks that met with Don Jr.) also merits some explanation/investigation. As does Assange’s motives.

      There is certainly room for overlap in between the “inside job” and “it was the Russians” camps. Too many questions remain unanswered.

    • Deborah
      August 12, 2017 at 14:55

      Let’s see–I believe it was the DNC and The FBI that paid for the Russian dossier on Trump that was filled with lies?? ummm wonder why that it is ok and legal to pay to dig up dirt from an unethical company like Fusion and then think it is illegal to meet with someone who says they have dirt?? I think this is how our corrupt political system has been working for decades. and if we think that Mueller is going to be honest, fair and unbiased–look at who he has selected as lawyers and how many of them we taxpayers are paying for and where the Grand jury will convene and then look up the totally asinine and archaic rules related to a Grand Jury–they are so archaic and unfair, that only two countries retain them now–US and Liberia–now think about what is happening–you have all these dam attorneys working on our tax dollars digging up dirt on everyone and anyone they think they can pressure to support the Russian collusion story–and I believe they will go to the extent of planting evidence and expecting persons they are pressuring to lie to avoid jail or ?death. Our country’s government and CIA, FBI, and all intelligence gathering entities seem to gather more info on our own citizens than on real enemies. The corruption is so overt now it is predictable by anyone with half a brain. I believe that many of the people who surrounded Trump initially, set him up to say or do certain things that will be used in the obstruction and Russian collusion saga. I no longer feel I live in the USA.

  45. Profecto
    August 8, 2017 at 08:23

    Craig Murray’s statement that it was he and not the Russians who was intermediary between the source and Wikileaks doesn’t get a mention in this article. A strange omission, given that Murray’s record for integrity and honesty is impeccable.

    • amyinil
      August 8, 2017 at 13:00

      Assange himself has said that Craig Murray is not authorized to talk on behalf of WikiLeaks.


      Assange also declined to comment on a Daily Mail report that his confidant Craig Murray flew to the United States to retrieve the documents printed on the site. Murray told the Daily Mail that he met with an intermediary in a wooded area near American University in Washington, D.C., who was handing off the documents on behalf of someone with “legal access” to both the DNC and Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta emails.

      “Craig Murray is not authorized to talk on behalf of WikiLeaks,” Assange said sternly.

      Assange: Some leaks may have been Russian

    • Andy Jones
      August 8, 2017 at 15:07

      Murray and Assange should go public if Seth Rich was the leaker. The stakes are too high for them to keep playing games.

      • Darryl Secret
        August 8, 2017 at 16:57

        I think Hersh, Murray and Assange could go public, but neither of them wish to be spoken of posthumously.

        • Leslie F
          August 8, 2017 at 18:50

          They also don’t want to reveal their sources. The FBI is probably zeroing on the person who read parts of a report to Hersh.

        • Litchfield
          August 9, 2017 at 10:52

          Regarding the practice of rubbing out political adversaries of various sorts, the bill of particulars in cludes not only the many mysterious “untimely/timely” deaths of numerous sources for ascertaining the truth of the JFK assassination; of many journlaists who were getting too near the truth (Webb, Hastings, others); politicos who were getting inconvenient (Ron Brown, Paul Wellstone, John can’t-recall-name); but also, back to so-called “electoral politics in this country,” check out this video in which LBJ’s longtime mistress and Texas insider casually and with certitude refers to LBJ’s personal “shooter,” who took care of many “problems” for LBJ, and it didn’t even cost that much. Malcolm Wallace. A crack shot, he may have been the guy who pulled the trigger on JFK. Wallace very likely died as a victim a “hit” in 1971.

          For a long video exposition of politics in Texas with the info on Wallace an d others see this interview with marilyn Duncan Brown:

          My point is: This is the political culture of the USA.
          Joe Kennedy, too, likely left a trail of bodies to get JFK to the top. Joe Senior had well-known links to the mob. The sooner we understand this and accept it, the closer we will be to smashing through the “conspiracy theory” meme and actually getting at the truth—and accepting the truth about hoq you get to the top in this “exceptional” country.

          Hersh is clearly fearful for his own life, and for that of his informant at the FBI.
          It is interesting that someone has “gotten” to the London Review of Books.

        • lexy677
          August 9, 2017 at 13:48

          Spot on!!!

      • dave
        August 8, 2017 at 17:31

        not to mention kim dotcom

    • Marko
      August 9, 2017 at 06:36

      In a recent interview in London with Crowdsourcethetruth , Murray denied being an intermediary for the leak itself , and said that his function was merely “administrative”. He didn’t elaborate about the meaning of that , but one possibility consistent with Hersh’s report is that he was a cashier of sorts.

      August 9, 2017 at 08:34

      Murray’s position, is at the very center of the Russian “scandal”.
      It should also be mentioned that Comey must have seen this file. I would expect that someone in the FBI is going to get that document to the White House.

    • Nancy Volle
      August 9, 2017 at 15:11

      Quote from this article, “Craig Murray, a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and an associate of Assange, has said categorically that the WikiLeaks source was a leak from an insider, not a hack. In an email message last week to former CIA analyst Ray McGovern, which McGovern shared with me, Murray wrote: “To my certain knowledge neither the DNC nor Podesta leaks to Wikileaks involved Russia. I met with someone while in Washington who, to the best of my knowledge, was an actual leaker.””

    • Joe Wallace
      August 9, 2017 at 17:56


      “Craig Murray, a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and an associate of Assange, has said categorically that the WikiLeaks source was a leak from an insider, not a hack. In an email message last week to former CIA analyst Ray McGovern, which McGovern shared with me, Murray wrote: ‘To my certain knowledge neither the DNC nor Podesta leaks to Wikileaks involved Russia. I met with someone while in Washington who, to the best of my knowledge, was an actual leaker.'”

      I’m confused. How is this not a “mention” in this article?

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