Low-Brow Debate Skirts Meaningful Issues

Brushing aside key issues, the second presidential debate took U.S. politics to new lows with Hillary Clinton bashing Donald Trump over his abuse of women and bigotry toward others while Trump vowed to put her in jail, says Joe Lauria.

By Joe Lauria

As senior members of his own Republican Party were deserting him, Donald Trump found his footing in his rematch debate with Hillary Clinton on Sunday night, blasting her for “always” blaming Russia even without evidence and for backing rebels who turn out “worse” than the leaders the U.S. seeks to overthrow. He even disavowed his own running mate for supporting war with Syria.

Just before the debate 16 Republican senators withdrew their support for Trump because of the emergence of a videotape on Friday in which Trump is heard making obscene comments about how he treats women. The lewd remarks were all the U.S. corporate media could talk about and Trump was facing calls from within his party to step down.

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.

Instead, he stepped up, literally. The town-hall-style debate at a Missouri university allowed Trump to move aggressively around the stage as he hurled invectives at his opponent. Clinton, who was on the defensive most of the night, tried to counter-attack on taxes, Russia, Syria and the scandal of the day, Trump’s treatment of women. But she seemed unnerved by Trump, expecting instead a defeated man who had performed so badly in the first debate after taking her bait, and who should now have been on the ropes.

Having nearly the entire political establishment against him — the Democrats, the media and even his own party — seems to invigorate the totally unorthodox Trump. He even felt confident enough to blithely disagree with his running mate, Gov. Mike Pence of Indiana, who – in the vice presidential debate last week – backed U.S. military attacks on the Syrian government and then launched the most virulent criticism of Russia by any candidate in this campaign. Trump said he simply didn’t agree with his running mate, something probably never said before publicly by a modern presidential candidate.

“I don’t like [Bashar al-] Assad at all but Assad is killing ISIS,” Trump said, referring to the Syrian president and the Islamic State jihadists who have seized portions of Syria and Iraq. “Russia is killing ISIS. And Iran is killing ISIS. And those three have now lined up because of our weak foreign policy.”

Trump said the priority should be defeating ISIS before talking about what to do regarding the Assad government. “I believe we have to get ISIS,” he said. “We have to worry about ISIS before we can get too much more involved.”

Going After Russia…Again 

Meanwhile, Clinton went on the counterattack early and often against Russia, and by extension Trump. She blamed Russian “aggression” for “destroying” Aleppo, though only east Aleppo is under attack, neighborhoods controlled by Al Qaeda’s Syrian affiliate and its allies.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

“There is a determined effort by the Russian air force to destroy Aleppo in order to eliminate the last of the Syrian rebels who are really holding out against the Assad regime,” she said, not mentioning that the main group “really holding out” is the same one that brought down the World Trade Center on 9/11.

Through ignorance or disinformation, she said, “There are hundreds of thousands of people probably about 250,000 still left” in Aleppo under Russia’s bombing. That’s the high estimate of the population in east Aleppo occupied by the extremists. There are1.5 million Aleppans living in the rest of the city, loyal to the government, and whose water was shut off for a time by the extremists in the east.

Despite the key role of Al Qaeda in the Aleppo conflict, Clinton again called for arming rebels and setting up a safe zone inside Syria, and a no-fly zone above it, a move that America’s top general, Gen. Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told Congress two weeks ago would lead to war with Russia. Even Clinton acknowledged in a leaked email that a no-fly zone would “kill a lot of Syrians.” But she’s still for it.

“She talks in favor of the rebels,” Trump shot back. “She doesn’t even know who they are. Every time we take rebels, whether it’s in Iraq or anywhere else, we’re arming people, and you know what happens? They end up being worse than the people” the U.S. overthrows.

“Look what she did in Libya with Gaddafi. Gaddafi’s out. It’s a mess,” he said. “The fact is almost everything she’s done in foreign policy has been a mistake and it’s been a disaster.”

Clinton again extended her attack on Russia to Trump for supposedly supporting its president, Vladimir Putin. She said U.S. intelligence has concluded, without making the evidence public, that Russia had hacked into U.S. election and Democratic Party computers “to influence our election.”

“And believe me, they’re not doing it to get me elected, they’re doing it to try to influence the election for Donald Trump,” she charged. “Now, maybe because he has praised Putin, maybe because he says he agrees with a lot of what Putin wants to do, maybe because he wants to do business in Moscow, I don’t know the reasons.”

Or, maybe it’s because Trump has called for dialogue with Moscow while Clinton threatens Russia, even likening Putin to “Hitler.” 

Trump denied he had any outstanding loans with Russia or any business interests there.

“She doesn’t know if it’s the Russians doing the hacking,” Trump responded. “But they always blame Russia and the reason is because they think they’re trying to tarnish me with Russia. I know about Russia but I know nothing about the inner workings of Russia.”

And neither do the vast majority of the American public because the corporate media never  tells them Russia’s side of the story. If it had, the American people might understand that Russia has been playing defense and that America has been on the offensive, such as in Ukraine after a U.S.-backed coup; in Poland and the Baltics after provocative NATO maneuvers; and in Syria after a U.S. and allied-backed campaign of foreign extremists trying to overthrow the secular Syrian government.

But Trump also steered away from a fully honest discussion about today’s dangerous geopolitics by putting on a display of typical rightwing rhetoric. He again trashed the Iran nuclear deal, which has considerably reduced tension in the region and in which Russia played a significant role. He called it “the dumbest deal I’ve ever seen” but that remark was probably the dumbest thing that Trump said all night.

Russian President Vladimir Putin during a state visit to Austria on June 24, 2014. (Official Russian government photo)

Russian President Vladimir Putin during a state visit to Austria on June 24, 2014. (Official Russian government photo)

Trump also reaffirmed that he wants to increase military spending, though the U.S. already outspends the next ten countries combined. He embraced easy access to guns, called for massive tax cuts for the rich, advocated more deregulation (despite the role of lax banking regulations in the Wall Street crash of 2008), and would have denounced climate change (the second most urgent problem after possible war with Russia) as a hoax but the question never came up, to the shame of the moderators who chose the questions from voters and asked many of their own.

After starting on the defensive over his recently disclosed 2005 remarks about groping women, Trump went on the offensive over Clinton’s email issue. He blasted away at Clinton for deleting 33,000 emails from her private server and for claiming not to know that many of the emails on her server were classified and vulnerable to hacking (though the FBI says it has no evidence that the server was successfully hacked).

In possibly the most stunning comment of the evening, Trump said that if he becomes president he would arrange a special prosecutor to investigate her use of the private email server although the FBI and the Justice Department have already declined to prosecute the case. At one point, he quipped that she would be “in jail” if he were president. That led the dour Dana Bash and other CNN talking heads to compare him to Hitler and Stalin, who didn’t need prosecutors to send someone away.

Trump and Women

The debate’s sordid tone began with a question about the videotape disclosed on Friday in which Trump makes several obscene remarks about women. He describes women letting him sexually touch them soon after meeting him because he is “a star.” It was a hideously sexist remark about abuse of power.

In the debate, Trump expressed remorse for the comments but claimed he was just engaging in “locker room talk” and didn’t do the lewd practices that he described. That would give Trump at age 59 at the time of the remarks the mentality of an immature 14-year old. Clinton and her supporters instead say he was talking about actual sexual assaults that he committed. You can be sure the Clinton camp is searching for the woman Trump took furniture shopping or any others who might have been groped.

Faced with this onslaught, Trump pulled the ace from his sleeve that he threatened to play in the first debate — and the second debate rapidly descended deep into the mud. Trump said Hillary Clinton had in the 1990s attacked women who had accused her husband Bill Clinton of sexually assaulting them. Trump invited three of these women to the debate and held a press conference with them before it began.

Dismissing the importance of the videotape, Trump said it was more important to talk about defeating ISIS and Clinton’s disastrous and violent record as secretary of state. Clinton ignored his remark about her attacking her husband’s accusers. Instead she said the tape showed the world the real Donald Trump.

“He has said that the video doesn’t represent who he is,” Clinton said. “But I think it’s clear to anyone who heard it that it represents exactly what he is.”

But Trump went after Clinton’s character too for calling half his supporters “deplorables” and some of them “irredeemable” in a fundraising speech, while claiming during the debate that she wants to be president for all Americans.

You’re No Abe Lincoln

Trump then blasted comments she made to Wall Street bankers and other special interests in speeches over the past four years, transcripts that she has refused to make public. But largely buried by the video hysteria over the past several days were portions of the speeches made public by Wikileaks, also on Friday, in which she cozied up to the well-to-do. abrahamlincoln-16

According to one excerpt, Clinton advocated politicians taking one position in public and another one in private, prompting one undecided voter at the debate to ask: “Is it okay for politicians to be two-faced? Is it acceptable for a politician to have a private stance?” In response, Clinton said the context of her remark was Abraham Lincoln, as portrayed in the movie “Lincoln,” altering his positions depending on his audience as he negotiated to amend the Constitution to formally outlaw slavery.

“She lied,” Trump responded. “Now she’s blaming the lie on the late great Abraham Lincoln. …  Honest Abe never lied. … That’s the big difference between Abraham Lincoln and you.”

The post-debate discussion on U.S. cable networks did little to redeem the evening. The commentary was pathetic, obsessing over Trump’s videotape and ignoring Clinton’s record on Libya and Syria, including her dangerous threats against Russia. There was also no discussion about Trump’s desire to jack up military spending.

Joe Lauria is a veteran foreign-affairs journalist based at the U.N. since 1990. He has written for the Boston Globe, the London Daily Telegraph, the Johannesburg Star, the Montreal Gazette, the Wall Street Journal and other newspapers. He can be reached atjoelauria@gmail.com  and followed on Twitter at @unjoe.

 

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29 comments for “Low-Brow Debate Skirts Meaningful Issues

  1. Cal
    October 13, 2016 at 23:35

    If I never hear the words racist, sex,bigot, etc., etc again it will be too soon.
    THAT is all this campaign has been about—and the Dems were the ones who started with the sex and racist stuff right out of the gate.
    They disgust me more than Trump does. Trump is a crude egomaniac but Hilary and the dems are filth who will use anything and stoop to any level to win..race baiting, race pandering, digging dirt and digging dirt—-.no matter what it does to the country.

  2. October 11, 2016 at 02:22

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  3. absurdity16
    October 10, 2016 at 17:00

    Is it not clear that Trump is a capitalist, a real estate developer? He’s made a career out of exploiting and degrading other men – why on earth would anyone imagine he would have some special tender regard for what used to be termed ‘the weaker sex’? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want the damn guy to be President, but claiming that a private tape from 2005 with macho posturing about sexual conquests disqualifies him from holding office is the lowest kind of demagogic propaganda. Worst of it is, that this classic piece of misdirection worked like a charm. The shrill chorus of indignation from hysterical liberals, fed by Hillary’s paid shills in the media, only reaffirms my radical’s disgust with their gullibility.

    What’s even more bizarre that Hillary is characterized as a champion of women’s rights. That may pass among other privileged Wellesley alumnae hoping abortion stays legal but in the real world it is a grotesque travesty. As wife of the Governor of Arkansas, Hillary fought and broke teachers’ unions largely composed of minority women. On the board of directors of Walmart, the nation’s largest employer of women, Hillary praised that company’s exploitative labor practices. As First Lady Hillary was instrumental in her husband’s successful campaign to deprive women and their children of the basic social safety net under the guise of “welfare reform.” As Secretary of State she fought Haitian women’s efforts to get a tiny increase in minimum wage in American-owned sweatshops and in Honduras she helped replace the elected government with a junta that routinely employs the rape and murder of women in its reign of terror against its own people.

    The Donald may rant and rave like the boorish sexist he (and most of is ilk) is, but his hands are not elbow-deep in the blood and tears of actual women, as are Hillary’s.

    • Joe Tedesky
      October 10, 2016 at 19:50

      Jill Stein said on Democracy Now, that what Trump talks about doing, Hillary has already done those things.

  4. J'hon Doe II
    October 10, 2016 at 16:25

    forgive my emotionalism —
    I am, however, after 70+ years of abiding by the status quo,(merely in order to live)
    unable to chew & swallow this compulsory, mandated ‘holy writ’ of accquiece to Murder.

    • Kiza
      October 10, 2016 at 21:35

      Nothing to forgive, I only wish other US people saw that this is just another Hillary lying binge. She will probably even lie to the Death once she comes for her, claiming that she delivered more billions of souls do Death than she really did.

  5. J'hon Doe II
    October 10, 2016 at 16:06

    CLINTON: So this is who Donald Trump is. And the question for us, the question our country must answer is that this is not who we are. That’s why — to go back to your question — I want to send a message — we all should — to every boy and girl and, indeed, to the entire world that America already is great, but we are great because we are good, and we will respect one another, and we will work with one another, and we will celebrate our diversity.

    These are very important values to me, because this is the America that I know and love. And I can pledge to you tonight that this is the America that I will serve if I’m so fortunate enough to become your president.

    ::
    This is the oft-repeated fallback diatribe colloquial cowbell around the neck cattle call reminder of “America’s Greatness.”
    It’s Bullspit. —

    -All the crap in the phrase, “to every boy and girl and, indeed, to the entire world that America already is great, but we are great because we are good, and we will respect one another, and we will work with one another, and we will celebrate our diversity” ——- is Pure Deceit.
    It’s toxic/venomous Snake-Oil pitched out of back of Carnival roadshows with no attachment to any “Celebration of Diversity.”
    Now the roadshow is pitched across multi-media and National Airwaves/electronic pulses,worldwide media, live & in living color.

    Read Hillary’s words again !
    They’ve been preached and teached to us across centuries and we are numbed/biased thru the sheer Indoctrination!

    First of all, THIS IS WHO WE ARE! A selfish nation of Historical bigots! Cut The Bullspit!

    ::
    Hillary “…but we are great because we are good, and we will respect one another, and we will work with one another, and we will celebrate our diversity.”

    Ask Yourself-and be Honest. — Is the above statement True… ?
    NO, It’s Pure Bullspit! Out of that woman’s mouth! — Yet we keep to the known-false collective that ‘we are one’
    We live amidst swirling lies hypocritical lies & falsehoods and’ve swallowed deceptions/pretensions of this so-called United Nation.

    Every People in the World are First united with and within Their Own Ethnicity.
    The Major PROBLEM in the World is —- ECONOMIC DOMINION — and not Divisions of Races.

    And so, the Dominators will rule through separation and will forever control through Havoc and the Mathematics of Division.

    ::
    Hillary – “These are very important values to me, [Havoc and the Mathematics of Division.] because this is the America that I know and love.”

    “And I can pledge to you tonight that this is the America that I will serve if I’m so fortunate enough to become your president.”
    [swirling lies hypocritical lies & falsehoods and’ve swallowed deceptions/pretensions].

  6. Annie
    October 10, 2016 at 14:33

    No matter what anyone says Trump won that debate, and it came as a total surprise considering he once again was losing republican support for his adolescent banter at 59, which was caught on tape and released just prior to it. Actually I got much more upset when I read on this site that the Washington Post published a piece on Carl Gershman’s desire to overthrow Putin, whose ideas could push our world into oblivion. Of course mainstream media supports, never confronts, this rhetoric, but dirty talk makes their heads spin. And I’m not even a Trump supporter, but I’m absolutely not a Clinton supporter either, nor do I support the punditocracy that operates solely in the interest of corporate America and the politicians who push their agenda which is what this presidential election cycle has been all about, and is doing in plain sight.

    • J'hon Doe II
      October 10, 2016 at 16:47

      Annie – FYI; “Carl Gershman’s desire…”

      OCT. 1, 1977
      After years of being regarded by the United States as a continent of little political, strategic, or economic significance, Africa has quite suddenly become the object of considerable attention in Washington. Vice President Walter Mondale has been charged with the task of overseeing U.S. African policy. Our highest officials, including especially UN Ambassador Andrew Young, have visited Africa during the past year and a half, after former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger devoted his last effort in shuttle diplomacy to finding a solution to the Rhodesian crisis. At each of the two recent conventions of the NAACP, the American Secretary of State has delivered a major address on U.S. policy in Africa.

      One is tempted to attribute the current interest in Africa to the election of a new administration with close ties to the civil-rights movement. But this does not explain the very high priority which the Ford administration, too, gave to U.S. policy in Africa, at least during its last year. In fact, the emergence of Africa as a major concern of U.S. foreign policy is the result of historic developments in southern Africa which began with the collapse of Portuguese colonialism in 1974 and 1975. Of these developments, the most significant was the victory in the Angolan civil war of the faction supported by the Soviet Union and Cuba.

      Americans find it very easy to forget what happened in Angola.

      https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/africa-soviet-imperialism-the-retreat-of-american-power/

      Repetitions of history. !

  7. Bill Bodden
    October 10, 2016 at 14:16

    Just before the debate 16 Republican senators withdrew their support for Trump because of the emergence of a videotape on Friday in which Trump is heard making obscene comments about how he treats women.

    How many of those 16 GOP senators and other GOP and Democratic senators who have pounced on Trump for his squalid comments have promoted or endorsed military actions that have had much more serious consequences for women and their families than what Trump and other men spouting “locker room” talk have alluded to? The Balkans, Iraq economic sanctions, war on Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, Libya, Syria, etc.? What monumental hypocrisy!!

    • Joe Tedesky
      October 10, 2016 at 15:51

      Bill, not only what you mentioned, but Republicans aren’t what I would call woman friendly. Think of all the issues involving women, then think of the one time Republicans were in favor of doing something for the females in our country. If the Donald gets caught saying nasty things about gay people will the good Republicans reject him for that, as well?

    • Cal
      October 13, 2016 at 23:49

      ” 16 Republican senators withdrew their support for Trump’>>>>

      Which tells you what the repubs are really afraid of if they are willing to trash their own party candidate—>that the DC ‘establishment’ will be blown up by Trump.
      The Dems are afraid of the same thing, hence their knee capping Sanders, hence Sander running right back to the herd, hence every sheepdog they can find is out shilling for Hillary—–> the “Establishment” is fighting for its life.

      Trump attracting so many unhappy Americans has scared them shitless…..the coolies on the Dems and Repubs ‘Plantations’ are restless and might revolt …the Status Quo must be maintained at all cost!

  8. mandrake
    October 10, 2016 at 14:15

    The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. In that sense both candidates and their parties are chillingly below zero. Voting for a democrat or republican is a mean spirited selfish crime against humanity, the environment, and all life forms.

  9. Glenn Goodman
    October 10, 2016 at 13:31

    Remember how her voice changed when she first uttered “Russia”? It chilled me to the core. This woman may well kill millions if not billions of people if we are irresponsible enough to put her back in power..

    • Kiza
      October 10, 2016 at 15:32

      Well, that qualifies the issue of Russia as an existential issue for the US people, obviously much more important than even the economy.

      I just say to people – think about millions of children drinking mother’s milk and playing with toys today who will perish if Hillary wins – 500,000 Iraqi children and never counted Syrian children were just a warm up for the main event.

      No matter how bad Trump may be, he is not a proven mass murderer. The MSM are successfully covering up this fact, but if you do not see through this you may pay for it with your own life in a thermonuclear war. From what I hear from Russia, the Russian people just about had enough of the US pushover bull and appear ready for a showdown with the bully.

  10. Zachary Smith
    October 10, 2016 at 13:23

    Instead, he stepped up, literally. The town-hall-style debate at a Missouri university allowed Trump to move aggressively around the stage as he hurled invectives at his opponent. Clinton, who was on the defensive most of the night, tried to counter-attack on taxes, Russia, Syria and the scandal of the day, Trump’s treatment of women. But she seemed unnerved by Trump, expecting instead a defeated man who had performed so badly in the first debate after taking her bait, and who should now have been on the ropes.

    I don’t know what to make of this. Is my observation/prediction that Trump is playing to lose out of date? Has Hillary stung him to the point that he’s going to fight to win, or is he merely trying to lose on his own terms?

    Trump plainly isn’t fit to be in the White House in any capacity except as a periodic visitor. But when set on the same stage as those Republican stooges who were his Primary opponents, he was Best Of The Show. And compared with Hillary, suddenly he isn’t the worst person around.

    Hillary’s exposure of Trump’s taped talk was devastating – I know that from listing to relatives. But his counterattack is going to hurt too. Hillary is actually married to a sexual predator who – from all accounts – is considerably worse than Trump. Her staying with Bill could be interpreted as her being a forgiving and dedicated good wife, or as a cynical gold digger who would do anything to advance her own career. And the fact that there is evidence of Hillary actively attacking Hubby Bill’s victims reflects badly on her.

    When I researched Hillary and the sex angle I ran into the rape case she was involved with as a 27-year-old lawyer. Yes, rapists have a right to a fair trial, but so do the victims. What REALLY pissed me off is the interview where she was laughing about how she got off the rapist of the 12-year-old girl. One she clearly believed to be guilty. This compares with her gleeful laughing about the murder of Gaddafi.

    So Hillary isn’t fit to be president either. It’s very strange that a Goldwater Girl is now considered to be a left-wing “liberal”. Actually, Hillary is to the RIGHT of Goldwater in most respects. Both claimed to be in favor of allowing women to have abortions if needed, but I’ve found no evidence Goldwater was an Israeli puppet as Hillary is. Look up the 1964 Republican Platform and you’ll find that neither abortion nor Israel is mentioned at all. So far as I can tell, Goldwater was a creature of Big Business of the day and a bit of a racist. Smashing nations all over the world for Israel wasn’t part of his agenda at all.

    I just can’t bring myself to vote for Trump because of his stance on torture and his choice of the reprehensible Mike Pence as VP. (Not that it matters anyhow because I live in Indiana.) But I’ll hardly be broken-hearted if Trump does turn out to be the come-back kid. We’ll all be screwed for sure, but maybe not as much as if “Let’s Start A War With Russia” Hillary moves back to the White House.

    • Joe Tedesky
      October 10, 2016 at 14:37

      Zachary, if it means anything to you, I agree. I also at times feel that this whole presidential campaign race between Trump and Clinton is a scripted reality tv show, and we viewers are the idiots for believing it.

    • Joe Tedesky
      October 10, 2016 at 15:46

      Zachary, after I left my first comment I came across an article by Jeffrey St Clair. I thought of you as I read it. In his article St Clair mentions where the Hillary Wikileaks exposes how the Clinton campaign early on wanted to elevate the Trump candidacy, because the Clinton’s preferred to run against the Donald. I hope you don’t mind my bugging you, but if you haven’t already read St Clair’s article that you enjoy his humor and his remarks.

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/10/ticker-tape-vs-sex-tape-notes-on-the-town-brawl-in-st-louis/

      • Zachary Smith
        October 10, 2016 at 17:22

        That JFK seduced an intern was shocking. I knew the man chased skirts big-time, but I hadn’t known till now that he also went after women so young. My opinion of the man was already quite low, and it just took another dive.

      • Joe Tedesky
        October 10, 2016 at 19:46

        Yeah, it’s stuff like that where the Kennedy’s fall short of hitting it over the fence. I love learning the untold, or not often talked about history, but when heroes turnout to be not so heroic that’s a bummer. In any case I’m leaving a link for you to read about the nineteen year old girl. Her name is Mimi Alford…be sure to read the very end, it may make you feel some relief…at least for Mimi.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimi_Alford

  11. Brad Owen
    October 10, 2016 at 12:49

    Thanks, Mr. Lauria, for the “blow-by-blow”. I didn’t bother watching. My Party wasn’t present…no matter, I need no reassurance about where Dr. Stein and the Greens stand on issues. Besides, as a former Democrat, I’ve declared political war on all Ds and Rs everywhere. My weapons are ballots and dollars, NOT bullets and bombs (which wise Statesmen/women know is an obsolete policy-of-State, and has been so since WWII). I aim to help stamp & drive the Ds and Rs from the World Stage. Permanently. And throttle the REAL enemy: Wall Street. The Greens look just like the Tool to eventually accomplish this Mission. I’m going to start stoking their political warchest to the tune of ten bucks a month until my last dying breath, or they turn corrupt too; whichever comes first. Would 20 million citizens care to join me? That’l be nearly TEN Billion$ every presidential election. Actually it looks like the Ds and Rs are self-destructing before our eyes. They appear to be suffering political “dementia”, brought-on by “political syphilis”, probably induced by illicit, feverish, “political coitus-for-money” off in the dark, shadowy, germ-infected wings of the World Stage. They’re not long for this World, I’ll wager; never mind that “grave threat” of WWIII (it’s just business for the MIC and their Bankster OverLords, who suffer from the same rot of “political syphilis”).

  12. Joe Tedesky
    October 10, 2016 at 12:27

    There was nothing new, and in the end there was nothing to be learned after listening to these two charlatans go at it with each other. We Americans should instead admit to ourselves that this debate was nothing more than just good tv. Not good for the nation, and it’s many issues that needed delved into, but good programming for a nation who loves it’s reality tv. In the end the only new news that came out of this debate, was Lincoln was just another politician, but most of you who frequent this website already knew that….so what did we learn? Nothing!

    • Bill Bodden
      October 10, 2016 at 17:57

      I never thought I would ever have any use for Grover Norquist, but he has this interesting quote that suggests unsurprisingly the debate was rigged: At http://PresidentialOpenQuestions.com , over 3.6 million votes were cast on over 15,800 questions.
      Tonight, the one they used received 13 votes. – From https://theintercept.com/liveblogs/seconddebate/

      • Joe Tedesky
        October 10, 2016 at 21:32

        Bill after visit the links you provided I couldn’t help but think how it’s like we are all in a bad B movie and there’s no escape…us extras are doomed.

        Sometimes I wish I would wake up to my Mothers cooking breakfast, and I’m 13 and it’s November 23rd 1963. JFK gets reelected and withdraws our troops from Vietnam, and after his term Martin Luther King becomes America’s first Black President. Reagan wins an Oscar for his late life comeback. The world is nuclear free by the turn of the century, and the last American factory has been retooled and upgraded for the new 21st century. Hunger became a thing of the past in this period, and all health coverage is provided by a world healthcare system which isn’t corrupt…. Or I’m 7 and the tooth fairy left me a quarter under my pillow…. Oh and the 25 cent piece is all silver.

  13. Drew Hunkins
    October 10, 2016 at 12:12

    Killary called for a no-fly zone in Syria, she openly called for it last night, I thought I didn’t hear her correctly at first, but I obviously knew better since she’s said it before on the campaign trail. To me this was the most chilling moment of 2016.

    A no-fly zone in Syria essentially means an air war with the Russian air force, which of course is bat-guano insane. It also likely means U.S. ground forces in Syria, which brings us to the brink of nuclear war.

    The morally, intellectually and ethically correct response from everyone in that audience — if we existed in a sane socio-poitico culture — once Killary uttered “no-fly zone” should have been audible gasps throughout the arena followed by moldy cabbages being hurled on stage.

    • Joe Tedesky
      October 10, 2016 at 12:42

      Drew, I seriously don’t think that most of America gets it. I guess if we had a draft more citizens would be worried about war with Russia, but that’s not the case. Instead we keep busy, and focus our mines on other things.

      • Bill Bodden
        October 10, 2016 at 16:21

        Most of America gets very little as demonstrated by these two ghastly candidates for the presidency.

      • Joe Tedesky
        October 10, 2016 at 21:35

        Okay then, let’s talk about Brad and Angelina…you know the important stuff.

    • Peter Loeb
      October 11, 2016 at 10:36

      THE STRATEGY

      As I have repeatedly stated in these spaces, it continues to be
      my conviction that the emphasis on tabloid-style personal insults
      is A STRATEGY of the Democratic party. Its nominee is
      unfavorable to many. Her record regarding foreign policy
      past, present and future, has been a disaster. To distract
      voters from any substantive discussion of Hillary Clinton’s
      record, the strategy pursued has been to run against an opponent
      who continually attacks, humiliates and insults the primary
      groups which have traditionally supported Democratic
      candidates.

      It was a risky strategy.

      The opponent chosen by the Republican Party
      has obliged in playing the role assigned him by
      the Democratic party and its supporters.

      Whether this strategy will succeed will only be known
      for certain on November 8. And the media being
      more than complicit in the strategy’s implementation
      will provide you with weeks and weeks of so-called “analysis” of
      the campaign in terms of its insults etc. Each and every
      voting group will express its reasons in detail.

      Nothing will be said about “regime change”, about
      Iraq, about Syria, about funds to Israel and the military complex.

      On issues such as war and peace there will be silence.

      —-Peter Loeb, Boston, MA, USA

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