The Ever-Curiouser MH-17 Case

Exclusive: The shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine has served as a potent propaganda club against Russia but the U.S. government is hiding key evidence that could solve the mystery, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

The curious mystery surrounding the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, gets more curious and more curious as the U.S. government and Dutch investigators balk at giving straightforward answers to the simplest of questions even when asked by the families of the victims.

Adding to the mystery Dutch investigators have indicated that the Dutch Safety Board did not request radar information from the United States, even though Secretary of State John Kerry indicated just three days after the crash that the U.S. government possessed data that pinpointed the location of the suspected missile launch that allegedly downed the airliner, killing all 298 people onboard.

A Malaysia Airways' Boeing 777 like the one that crashed in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014. (Photo credit: Aero Icarus from Zürich, Switzerland)

A Malaysia Airways’ Boeing 777 like the one that crashed in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014. (Photo credit: Aero Icarus from Zürich, Switzerland)

Although Kerry claimed that the U.S. government knew the location almost immediately, Dutch investigators now say they hope to identify the spot sometime “in the second half of the year,” meaning that something as basic as the missile-launch site might remain unknown to the public more than two years after the tragedy.

The families of the Dutch victims, including the father of a Dutch-American citizen, have been pressing for an explanation about the slow pace of the investigation and the apparent failure to obtain relevant data from the U.S. and other governments.

I spent time with the family members in early February at the Dutch parliament in The Hague as opposition parliamentarians, led by Christian Democrat Pieter Omtzigt, unsuccessfully sought answers from the government about the absence of radar data and other basic facts.

When answers have been provided to the families and the public, they are often hard to understand, as if to obfuscate what information the investigation possesses or doesn’t possess. For instance, when I asked the U.S. State Department whether the U.S. government had supplied the Dutch with radar data and satellite images, I received the following response, attributable to “a State Department spokesperson”: “While I won’t go into the details of our law enforcement cooperation in the investigation, I would note that Dutch officials said March 8 that all information asked of the United States has been shared.”

I wrote back thanking the spokesperson for the response, but adding: “I must say it seems unnecessarily fuzzy. Why can’t you just say that the U.S. government has provided the radar data cited by Secretary Kerry immediately after the tragedy? Or the U.S. government has provided satellite imagery before and after the shootdown? Why the indirect and imprecise phrasing? …

“I’ve spent time with the Dutch families of the victims, including the father of a U.S.-Dutch citizen, and I can tell you that they are quite disturbed by what they regard as double-talk and stalling. I would like to tell them that my government has provided all relevant data in a cooperative and timely fashion. But all I get is this indirect and imprecise word-smithing.”

The State Department spokesperson wrote back, “I understand your questions, and also the importance of the view of these families so devastated by this tragedy. However, I am going to have to leave our comments as below.”

Propaganda Value

This lack of transparency, of course, has a propaganda value since it leaves in place the widespread public impression that ethnic Russian rebels and Russian President Vladimir Putin were responsible for the 298 deaths, a rush to judgment that Secretary Kerry and other senior U.S. officials (and the Western news media) encouraged in July 2014.

Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Once that impression took hold there has been little interest in Official Washington to clarify the mystery especially as evidence has emerged implicating elements of the Ukrainian military. For instance, Dutch intelligence has reported (and U.S. intelligence has implicitly confirmed) that the only operational Buk anti-aircraft missile systems in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, were under the control of the Ukrainian military.

In a Dutch report released last October, the Netherlands’ Military Intelligence and Security Service (MIVD) reported that the only anti-aircraft weapons in eastern Ukraine capable of bringing down MH-17 at 33,000 feet belonged to the Ukrainian government.

MIVD made that assessment in the context of explaining why commercial aircraft continued to fly over the eastern Ukrainian battle zone in summer 2014. MIVD said that based on “state secret” information, it was known that Ukraine possessed some older but “powerful anti-aircraft systems” and “a number of these systems were located in the eastern part of the country.”

The intelligence agency added that the rebels lacked that capability: “Prior to the crash, the MIVD knew that, in addition to light aircraft artillery, the Separatists also possessed short-range portable air defence systems (man-portable air-defence systems; MANPADS) and that they possibly possessed short-range vehicle-borne air-defence systems. Both types of systems are considered surface-to-air missiles (SAMs). Due to their limited range they do not constitute a danger to civil aviation at cruising altitude.”

One could infer a similar finding by reading a U.S. “Government Assessment” released by the Director of National Intelligence on July 22, 2014, five days after the crash, seeking to cast suspicion on the ethnic Russian rebels and Putin by noting military equipment that Moscow had provided the rebels. But most tellingly the list did not include Buk anti-aircraft missiles. In other words, in the context of trying to blame the rebels and Putin, U.S. intelligence could not put an operational Buk system in the rebels’ hands.

So, perhaps the most logical suspicion would be that the Ukrainian military, then engaged in an offensive in the east and fearing a possible Russian invasion, moved its Buk missile systems up to the front and an undisciplined crew fired a missile at a suspected Russian aircraft, bringing down MH-17 by accident.

That was essentially what I was told by a source who had been briefed by U.S. intelligence analysts in July and August 2014. [See, for instance, Consortiumnews.com’s “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts” and “The Danger of an MH-17 Cold Case.”]

But Ukraine is a principal participant in the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT), which has been probing the MH-17 case, and thus the investigation suffers from a possible conflict of interest since Ukraine would prefer that the world’s public perception of the MH-17 case continue to blame Putin. Under the JIT’s terms, any of the five key participants (The Netherlands, Ukraine, Australia, Belgium and Malaysia) can block release of information.

The interest in keeping Putin on the propaganda defensive is shared by the Obama administration which used the furor over the MH-17 deaths to spur the European Union into imposing economic sanctions on Russia.

In contrast, clearing the Russians and blaming the Ukrainians would destroy a carefully constructed propaganda narrative which has stuck black hats on Putin and the ethnic Russian rebels and white hats on the U.S.-backed government of Ukraine, which seized power after a putsch that overthrew elected pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych on Feb. 22, 2014.

Accusations against Russia have also been fanned by propaganda outlets, such as the British-based Bellingcat site, which has collaborated with Western mainstream media to continue pointing the finger of blame at Moscow and Putin – as the Dutch investigators drag their heels and refuse to divulge any information that would clarify the case.

Letter to the Families

Perhaps the most detailed – although still hazy – status report on the investigation came in a recent letter from JIT chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke to the Dutch family members. The letter acknowledged that the investigators lacked “primary raw radar images” which could have revealed a missile or a military aircraft in the vicinity of MH-17.

Russian-made Buk anti-aircraft missile battery.

Russian-made Buk anti-aircraft missile battery.

Ukrainian authorities said all their primary radar facilities were shut down for maintenance and only secondary radar, which would show commercial aircraft, was available. Russian officials have said their radar data suggest that a Ukrainian warplane might have fired on MH-17 with an air-to-air missile, a possibility that is difficult to rule out without examining primary radar which has so far not been available. Primary radar data also might have picked up a ground-fired missile, Westerbeke wrote.

“Raw primary radar data could provide information on the rocket trajectory,” Westerbeke’s letter said. “The JIT does not have that information yet. JIT has questioned a member of the Ukrainian air traffic control and a Ukrainian radar specialist. They explained why no primary radar images were saved in Ukraine.” Westerbeke said investigators are also asking Russia about its data.

Westerbeke added that the JIT had “no video or film of the launch or the trajectory of the rocket.” Nor, he said, do the investigators have satellite photos of the rocket launch.

“The clouds on the part of the day of the downing of MH17 prevented usable pictures of the launch site from being available,” he wrote. “There are pictures from just before and just after July 17th and they are an asset in the investigation.” According to intelligence sources, the satellite photos show several Ukrainian military Buk missile systems in the area.

Secretary of State John Kerry denounces Russia's RT network as a "propaganda bullhorn" during remarks on April 24, 2014.

Secretary of State John Kerry denounces Russia’s RT network as a “propaganda bullhorn” during remarks on April 24, 2014.

Why the investigation’s data is so uncertain has become a secondary mystery in the MH-17 whodunit. During an appearance on NBC’s “Meet the Press” on July 20, 2014, three days after the crash, Secretary Kerry declared, “we picked up the imagery of this launch. We know the trajectory. We know where it came from. We know the timing. And it was exactly at the time that this aircraft disappeared from the radar.”

But this U.S. data has never been made public. In the letter, Westerbeke wrote, “The American authorities have data, that come from their own secret services, which could provide information on the trajectory of the rocket. This information was shared in secret with the [Dutch] MIVD.” Westerbeke added that the information may be made available as proof in a criminal case as an “amtsbericht” or “official statement.”

Yet, despite the U.S. data, Westerbeke said the location of the launch site remains uncertain. Last October, the Dutch Safety Board placed the likely firing location within a 320-square-kilometer area that covered territory both under government and rebel control. (The safety board did not seek to identify which side fired the fateful missile.)

By contrast, Almaz-Antey, the Russian arms manufacturer of the Buk systems, conducted its own experiments to determine the likely firing location and placed it in a much smaller area near the village of Zaroshchenskoye, about 20 kilometers west of the Dutch Safety Board’s zone and in an area under Ukrainian government control.

Westerbeke wrote, “Raw primary radar data and the American secret information are only two sources of information for the determination of the launch site. There is more. JIT collects evidence on the basis of telephone taps, locations of telephones, pictures, witness statements and technical calculations of the trajectory of the rocket. The calculations are made by the national air and space laboratory on the basis of the location of MH17, the damage pattern on the wreckage and the special characteristics of the rockets. JIT does extra research on top of the [Dutch Safety Board] research. On the basis of these sources, JIT gets ever more clarity on the exact launch site. In the second half of the year we expect exact results.”

Quinn Schansman, a dual U.S.-Dutch citizen killed aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 on July 17, 2014. (Photo from Facebook)

Quinn Schansman, a dual U.S.-Dutch citizen killed aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 on July 17, 2014. (Photo from Facebook)

Meanwhile, the U.S. government continues to stonewall a request from Thomas J. Schansman, the father of Quinn Schansman, the only American citizen to die aboard MH-17, to Secretary Kerry to release the U.S. data that Kerry has publicly cited.

Quinn Schansman, who had dual U.S.-Dutch citizenship, boarded MH-17 along with 297 other people for a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 17, 2014. The 19-year-old was planning to join his family for a vacation in Indonesia.

In a letter to Kerry dated Jan. 5, 2016, Thomas J. Schansman noted Kerry’s remarks at a press conference on Aug. 12, 2014, when the Secretary of State said about the Buk anti-aircraft missile suspected of downing the plane: “We saw the take-off. We saw the trajectory. We saw the hit. We saw this aeroplane disappear from the radar screens. So there is really no mystery about where it came from and where these weapons have come from.”

Although U.S. consular officials in the Netherlands indicated that Kerry would respond personally to the request, Schansman told me this week that he had not yet received a reply from Kerry.

Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s. You can buy his latest book, America’s Stolen Narrative, either in print here or as an e-book (from Amazon and barnesandnoble.com

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91 comments for “The Ever-Curiouser MH-17 Case

  1. bfearn
    March 16, 2016 at 3:23 pm

    Why would the Obama government release info that makes the Russians look better and their so-called ally look bad? It ain’t gonna happen although The Donald might do it.

    • wootendw
      March 19, 2016 at 3:07 am

      “The Donald might do it.”

      Maybe that is one the reasons the ‘establishment’ hell-bent on keeping Trump out of the WH.

    • David
      March 19, 2016 at 10:14 am

      I recall the CIA once shot down an Italian airliner over the Mediterranean aboard which they believed Qaddafi was flying. They didn’t own up to it for a decade.

      LF

      • Athomas
        March 20, 2016 at 6:18 am

        You are obviously referring to Itavia 870, shot down on June 27th, 1980.

        That was probably done by the French Air Force, although nobody has ever been brought to justice for that. The CIA only supplied the “intelligence” that Gaddaffi was on board.

        I fear the MH17 investigation will go on a similar line. And the perpetrators probably already “suffered an accident” or “committed suicide”, the KGB-successor SBU and its affiliated Nazi Batallions must have made sure of that.

  2. incontinent reader
    March 16, 2016 at 3:27 pm

    If the truth were ever to come out, the Netherlands, Ukraine, and every other country that has been complicit in this mass assassination coverup would be at risk of losing billions, not to speak of a universal call for war crimes prosecutions, or economic boycotts, or demonstrations that would take place all over the world- and when I say demonstrations, I mean the real thing, not the manufactured and manipulated theater funded by Soros and Co. I think the perps in Brussels and DC are also afraid that it could presage a popular movement to break the EU and NATO like none before it, especially given the migrant crisis that has hit the Europeans who, until recently haven’t seemed to care about the ‘war on terra’, but now are realizing why the crisis happened and how it is affecting them. And could it be that the TTIP, TPP and TISA will also take a hit? I don’t think this is wishful thinking, I think it is on the radar.

    Is the Dutch leadership worried about ‘regime change’? I suspect it is, and that some of the apparatchiks in Amsterdam are already looking for other jobs in anticipation of their constituents voting them out of office, and replacing their government with something responsible and responsive.

    In the meantime, don’t buy tulips unless they are home grown.

    • Tom Welsh
      March 17, 2016 at 6:51 am

      “I think it is on the radar”.

      Unlike MH17 and the fighter(s) that may have shot it down.

    • Man on the street
      March 21, 2016 at 11:42 am

      Immediately after the MH17 explosion, there were reports on RT.com that the Kiev government confiscated their traffic controllers conversation with the captain of MH17? First, is that true? Second, if not, why are we not hearing this conversation as routinely all traffic controllers have done in the past. This one point is very crucial illustration of cover up. Also, the formation of the investigative team, and conditions imposed by Kiev was very peculiar, as it has been reported that Kiev had a veto power over the final report to black out any information that they feel may harm their country. The Western media have been dishonest from day one in digging information and reporting with unbiased style.

      • Michael A Carroll
        March 21, 2016 at 4:18 pm

        The western media has been as useless as teats on a bull since Walter Durant was knee high to a grasshopper.

  3. Daniel
    March 16, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    Thank you, Mr. Parry, for continuing to report on this horrible tragedy…297 people killed in an insidious plot, it would seem. Power to the courageous American dad (and others) trying to get to the bottom of this. John Kerry is a disgrace, and – in a sane world – would be replaced with someone containing at least a passing resemblance of dignity and a real respect for the truth.

    And now we have Hillary vs. Trump. When oh when will the slumbering sheep in this country wake up to their slavery?

    • dahoit
      March 17, 2016 at 10:44 am

      Vote Trump and maybe,just maybe,you will be delivered from Zionist slavery.Because that is the common denominator in all our problems of greed,war and the division of America.
      Look at the front page of every MSM site,and all the alleged liberal sites on the web;A full scale hysteria over Trump and his call for American nationalism.And even alleged truth sites,ha ha,are closing the commenting to the ditto heads for Zion,the hell bitch,and neolibcon capitalism.
      And here we have our govt,colluding with neonazis,real ones,in trying to demonize Russia.

      • Daisee
        March 17, 2016 at 2:22 pm

        Trump doesn’t believe half the things he has said, he is/will be just as Establishment as Billary.

      • Dutch Boy
        March 20, 2016 at 11:39 am

        So sad to see an interesting thread tainted by obsessive Jew hatred.

        • shrtylr
          March 20, 2016 at 4:45 pm

          Stop claiming “Jew” hatred. Anti-Zionist and many Jews work together for the same reason. Stopping the right-wing ZIONIST from twisting Israel into an apartheid state.

        • Rob
          March 20, 2016 at 10:48 pm

          There we go conflating anti Zionism with”Jew hatred”

      • MattR
        March 21, 2016 at 4:33 am

        So you think voting for a neo-fascist will be a blow to the “neo-nazis”? You think xenophobic, racist know-nothingism is “radical”? Pathetic.

        Robert Parry, regardless of the quality of much of your journalism, I’d worry about the audience you’ve attracted here. Not pretty.

        • Dutch
          March 21, 2016 at 12:37 pm

          What neo-fascist are you referring to? The one who has refused money from special interests and preaches isolationism, fair trade , and against central banking, all of which are antithetical to fascism? You might want to look up the meaning of your big words before using them foolishly and incorrecly. One can only assume YOU are the less desirable reader you warn Parry against. I doubt Parry gets up every morning to write for the benefit of illiterates who don’t even grasp the definition of their own words.
          We get it, the TV told you to hate Trump so you are just following orders. But please just stick to using the 3 and 4 letter words that your mind can properly process. “Fascism” has seven letters and is clearly way above your pay grade.

  4. onno
    March 16, 2016 at 3:49 pm

    Slowly but surely the clouds around this terrible accident start to lift and Washington’s anti-Russia and anti-Putin conspiracy becomes more transparent. It becomes obvious that Washington has satellite pictures available which, however, would implicate Washington and its puppet Kiev government. Just like the Russian military saw from their satellite pictures and noticed 2 Ukrainian fighter jets were close to MH 17. In contrast to this article it was a clear and cloudless day so any surface-to-air missile would have been visible for miles around.
    More worrisome is the fact that President Putin’s aircraft – returning from his visit in Brazil – flew about 15 minutes behind MH 17 on the same route. I think Washington is well aware WHAT implications it would have if through this irresponsible act President Putin’s plane was shot down instead (which has similar outside markings as MH17). Besides former governor of Dnepropetrovsk Kolomoisky, oligarch, criminal and employer of VP Biden’s son, Hunter and Kerry’s stepson Devon Archer had put a prize of $ 1 million on the head of Putin. This is a lot of money in Ukraine and make a fighter pilot very quickly very rich! Another reason for a US cover-up of the shoot down of MH 17

  5. Susan Raikes Sugar
    March 16, 2016 at 3:53 pm

    This is exactly the same kind of pre-fabricated evidence as was put together for 9/11. It worked then so our governing officials are convinced it’s watertight… However, I flew from Bangkok to Mandalay on the afternoon of July 17 2014 and by the time my cab dropped me off at my hotel in Mandalay (less than three hours after the crash) the TV news commentator (from Bangkok) was already declaring that “Putin Has Blood On His Hands.” So much for weighing the evidence. When I arrived back in the states and read the headlines in the Journal of Foreign Affairs, the same wording was used: “Putin Has Blood on His Hands.” These were propaganda pieces that were later retracted after a well-respected author/academician pointed out that the argument(s) were not evidence-based.

    In other words–and I’ll take a leap in the other direction– and suggest that this was a set-up by the US government and its allies, probably with the help of Victoria Nuland and friends, to frame Russia and Vladimir Putin. Never mind the victims.

    But there is also extensive evidence that was put out by Global Research featuring a Lufthansa pilot who determined after reviewing the plane wreckage that it appeared the plane was shot down at close range. And there have been other reports of at least one, maybe two, Ukrainian fighter jets in the air flying close to the airliner, but no evidence from the ground that such a thing as a BUK missile was fired.

    Furthermore, if the Ukrainian government and its US allies were above board in this, then let’s consider what happened to the air traffic controllers in Kiev who might have had some important material input into this tragedy. I believe they were fired. Almost immediately.

    All of this appears to be a huge cover-up a la 9/11; the idea is to continually obfuscate, change the data and hide the evidence so as to keep people confused and forever uncertain. As long as it keeps a negative spotlight on Putin, why worry about the Truth?

    • Curious
      March 17, 2016 at 7:28 pm

      Yes Susan,

      You have witnessed this prefabricated media talking point as I have as well. One doesn’t have to look far, when one sees the BBC talking about building 7 taken down as well as the towers before it was down, that there is a scripted narrative inked before hand. People naturally don’t want to believe this since they don’t know the tech aspect of actually writing something down and putting it in a teleprompter. It takes time. It is not immediate. Many news studios don’t even have camera people anymore, as robotic cameras have taken over their jobs. A news person can put out a story without many humans around outside of a director perhaps (although thats changing too) and a producer perhaps. The lack of human witnesses can be good if used wisely, or bad, if used as propaganda.

    • george Archers
      March 19, 2016 at 8:09 am

      Now you know why the US government hates Whistle Blowers and Americans fear their own government.
      Snowden/Manning are a good examples.

  6. March 16, 2016 at 3:57 pm

    Putin is the kind of man other men want as a buddy. He’s real. He has a clear mind. He has a sense of humor. He’s not full of himself. He knows where he’s going. He loves his people. He’s a standup guy. He can’t be bullied. He’s a rugged individual. He loves animals and abhors criminals. He’s been a good father. He’s a patriot. He’s a fast thinker. He’s a good communicator. He says what he means. He means what he says. He’s generous. He’s polite. He’s responsible.Those attributes used to be what Americans cherished as ideal qualities. The representatives of America are anathema to me. I envy the Russian people.
    https://youtu.be/j4p6vdtdE7U

    • Kiza
      March 17, 2016 at 8:46 pm

      Mixa, most of the nice things you wrote about Putin’s character would probably also apply to Robert Parry. Whilst the MSM have completely tuned out of the MH17 tragedy (and probably a false-flag), Robert is still pursuing the truth. If only there were a few more professionals like he. Long ago, there was a time when I thought that journalism was about the truth, but journalism is about the truth as much as law is about justice. The job of journalists is to manipulate the truth as much the job of lawyers is to manipulate justice in favor of those who have more to pay. This is why we need to invent a new term for the professionals such as Robert, calling someone a journalist has become an insult.

      Just imagine for a moment that you are a family member of a victim… instead of finding out what really happened to have some degree of closure, all you can see are the manipulations by the Western media and the Western governments. They have instrumentalized the victims to serve their “higher purpose” of imposing sanctions on Russia and are dragging their “investigation” until they exhaust all of the tragedy’s propaganda value and the sanctions value.
      IS THIS NOT ADDING INSULT TO INJURY?
      1) Their proxies shot-down the plane (most likely).
      2) They used this to sanction their opponent Russia.
      3) They are delaying the investigation until it has no value any more.
      Just like in a totalitarian society.

      I wrote the same day that MH17 was shot-down that it will be allocated to the memory-hole once it is fully utilized.

  7. March 16, 2016 at 4:05 pm

    Although I share and write lots of articles in social media , each and every time I share articles like the above, relative to unresolved MH17 case, a number of persons attack to me.
    What’s the matter with them? Why they take it personally?

    • Ross ellery
      March 17, 2016 at 12:34 am

      They have been brain washed bye the main stream media following there governments agenda.
      To seek the truth takes time and intelligence, you can not wake them up there level of perception
      Is like that of a baby before it can walk and talk .
      And to challenge there view is to much for most of them.

    • Fred
      March 21, 2016 at 12:17 pm

      Maybe you could refer them to this website whenever they attack you? And if they attack you for telling them about your doubts, don’t take it personally, because they can’t believe (or don’t want to) that their government could do such horrible things, over and over.

    • Mudhole
      March 21, 2016 at 3:54 pm

      Elizabeth-

      The people attacking you are paid to do so. The Israeli government has a program known as Hasbara, which is said to involve tens of thousands of people. These Hasbarniki, as they are called, patrol the internet night and day, looking for posts and threads that might be of concern to Israel. The commentator ‘Dutch Boy’ who posted earlier is likely Hasbara.

  8. J'hon Doe II
    March 16, 2016 at 4:25 pm

    There ought to be a world where Human Bonding prevails.

    what is the Mechanistic Cause of human separation of species?
    .

    human beings live and breathe under sun and sky/wind and rain

    The delineations come from Authority to steal, kill & destroy.

    See / Psalm 119

  9. Tom Welsh
    March 16, 2016 at 5:17 pm

    The one thing that is certain is that the Americans are lying, the Dutch are lying, the Ukrainians are lying – or two of the above, or all three.

    Of course the Ukrainians lie habitually. And the Americans lie whenever it suits them. But the Dutch should be ashamed.

    • Gregory Kruse
      March 18, 2016 at 9:05 am

      In other words, the Dutch don’t make a habit of lying, even when it suits them, but they are willing to lie at the request of other countries. Either way it’s said, it sounds very funny to me.

      • Flying Dutchman
        March 20, 2016 at 11:29 am

        We (the Dutch) do make a habit of lying. Our government is as corrupt and secrative as any other. just google “teevendeal coverup” or “Demmink coverup”. Just a few of many examples. They’d love to have the american system and pass the ball to eachother every 4 or 8 years.

        For months after Obama’s election any Dutch politician who spoke publically tried to mimic Obama’s way of speech. Controlled, intense with a LOT of small pauzes. It would have been hilarious if it wasn’t so sad. Especially those who lack any charisma.. we got a lot of those.

        It’s quite like the US in here. The difference is people can enter this country more easily and it’s allowed to grow (some) weed and even smoke it.

  10. bobzz
    March 16, 2016 at 6:29 pm

    Glad CN is up and running again, and glad you are keeping this event alive. My guess is more time is needed to concoct a cover-up, and they are having a very hard time doing it.

  11. ALBERT CHAMPION
    March 16, 2016 at 7:28 pm

    i am surprised that you avoid the satellite imagery held by the NRO. although it may be that the recent keyhole satellite was only photographing the area on its overflights, i think that because the neocons determined that the ukraine was a theater of war, that geosynchronous satellites were positioned.

    the NRO has pix of everything that happened in the ukraine.

    • J'hon Doe II
      March 16, 2016 at 8:28 pm

      Human Bonding is more-to-be-desired

      than

      geosynchronous satellites hovering.

      Despotic Authority murders freedom

      imperiously

      marching under unseverable contract.

  12. Erik
    March 16, 2016 at 8:56 pm

    Perhaps a new investigative team can be formed of all of the JIT countries except Ukraine (Netherlands, Australia, Belgium and Malaysia), but with the same evidence and investigators, which could then release the findings.

    The Ukraine story is not plausible, that “primary radar facilities were shut down for maintenance and only secondary radar, which would show commercial aircraft, was available” or why such secondary data are not released, or that “no primary radar images were saved.” No one would shut down all radar facilities at the same time “for maintenance” during heavy ATC traffic. So plainly Ukraine is concealing incriminating evidence and should be found guilty on that grounds alone.

    • March 17, 2016 at 2:48 am

      In fact one radar facility – of the three capable of monitoring the area – had been destroyed by the rebels, which was not reported by Ukraine to the appropiate European aviation authorities.

  13. Ross ellery
    March 17, 2016 at 12:25 am

    They say the truth dosnt need defending.When governments you’s propaganda thru the media that follows there agenda it is up to independent journalists that have the strength and courage to bring the truth to the world.Even when the world dosnt want to hear it
    . Well written and researched . .It should appear in the main stream media to wake the masses up and question there governments darker objectives in the Ukraine

  14. Oleg
    March 17, 2016 at 2:21 am

    I am still puzzled by another thing… why ANOTHER Malaysian airplane? The version that the plane is similar in appearance to Putin’s plane is not very convincing and besides, Putin never flew that route, he flew from Brazil to Moscow via Poland and Belarus. One can believe of course that this is a grim coincidence, but I see the downing of yet another Malaysian airplane as a product of a perverted mind of the person who gave the order to shoot the plane. It is a cultural thing, I do not thing you would understand, but selecting yet another Malaysian airplane as a target at the time when the disappearance of the first Malaysian plane was still fresh on everyone’s minds is something that a person like Kolomoisky could easily do. He would consider it funny. There have been reports that Kolomoisky was at the Dnepropetrovsk air traffic control centre at the time of the tragedy and that he actually owns the airport and the air traffic control. And the traffic control of course knew the identity of the plane. This also fits his psychological profile. I cannot think of too many persons that could order assassination of 298 innocent people and be perfectly in peace with their conscience afterwards. I do not hold that high an opinion of Ms. Nuland and company but I cannot believe they could do this. Somebody like Kolomoisky could. It won’t likely be the first time he ordered killing of people. Like Khodorkovsky, by the way, another current darling of the West. I lived in Russia in 1990s and I saw what such people could do.

    • Liam
      March 17, 2016 at 6:28 pm

      All evidence does point towards Kolomoisky and his Right Sector fascist battalions who committed multiple false flag and atrocities in Ukraine after the coup of 2014. His assistants Facebook account was hacked and the messaging describes them faking the audio recordings released by the Kiev regime the day MH17 came down. I have assembled a number of links related to the Ukrainian Civil War that prove the Kiev regime were very well capable of shooting down MH-17 and are the most likely perpetrators of this mass murder event.

      A) Link to Ukrainian military footage showing their use of BUK missile launchers on July 16th, 2014 in the shootdown zone. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c67_1419630308:

      B) 2nd link showing Ukrainian BUK’s being maneuvered in the shootdown zone on July 4, 2014. http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ukrainian-government-forces-maneuver-antiaircraft-missile-launchers-buk-photo-183322225.html

      C) John McCain caught lying on national TV about Kievs BUKs. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e04_1419630875

      D) Proof that Vice News edited footage to paint rebels in a negative light. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=183_1418591150

      E) Link to BBC’s own deleted footage regarding MH-17 and witnesses who saw fighter jets by the plane. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=18e_1418590601

      F) Link to 4 min Australian News video proving rebels believed there were two planes shot down. Australian News edited this and only released 4 minutes of 17 minutes which begs the questions why and where is the rest of the footage? http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=434_1437414834

      G) Multiple BUKs caught on video with the Ukrainian armed forces. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bd0_1428717463

      H) Link to highly graphic rarely seen video of MH-17 victims and anomalies. Graphic Warning: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fbf_1429163375

      I) Link to highly graphic 175 video archive of Kiev regime Right Sector atrocities and false flags conducted upon innocent ethnic Russian Ukrainian civilians.

      J) Link to story about British double agent that works with Elliot Higgins (Bellingcat) who gave out false and misleading info on MH-17. This ‘witness’ was never questioned by the Dutch Safety Board as to why he misled reporters in regards to MH-17.
      http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9af_1432256107

      K) Analysis of the original recordings the Kiev regime released on the day of the shootdown prove that they are fake and have been edited in a studio. Highlighting that it was the event was premeditated mass murder. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ca9_1434145434

      L) Link to Facebook conversation and screenshots of Ukrainian oligarch Igor Kolomoiskys Assistant regarding faking the audio recordings that frame up Russia for MH17. Released by Cyber Berkut. http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Crash_of_Malaysia_Airlines_flight_MH17/Cyber_Berkut_leak

      M) Link to Harpers magazine article dated August 13, 2015 highlighting the theft of $1.8 billion of IMF funds by Igor Kolomoisky. https://harpers.org/blog/2015/08/undelivered-goods/

      N) Link to Yahoo/AFP article highlighting Igor Kolomoisky’s control over the Right Sector Aidar battalion who are complicit in atrocities against civilians. http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-soldiers-government-were-coming-next-155843129.html

      O) Link to witness testimony of Ukrainian airman who claims Ukrainian jets flew sorties on the day MH17 was downed and returned without air to air missiles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVQQrUN_fE

      P) Link to official full Russian radar presentation on MH17. The Dutch Safety Board has been untruthful when they say that Ukraine released video of their radar from MH17. The Kiev regime has released no such video. Russia released their video on July 21, 2014. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bNPInuSqfs

      • Mudhole
        March 21, 2016 at 4:09 pm

        Liam-

        Kolomoisky did the deed, but he had help- Avigdor Lieberman, who was foreign minister of Israel at the time. This is why the investigations always go nowhere- because they lead back to Liberman and Israel. If anyone points to Kolomiosky- he has Liberman to protect him. He got this protection by pouring diesel fuel all over Lieberman’s right hand man, Michael Falkov, and burning Falkov alive. This was done in the area of operations of the Dombas Battalion, Kolomoisky’s private army. two days after the shootdown of MH17. Burning Falkov implicated Liberman in the crime and thus invoked his protection.

    • GeorgeD
      March 18, 2016 at 11:47 pm

      Oleg, I have had the same thought.
      Than I read carefully about the views of Mahathir Mohamad, the former Prime Minister of Malaysia.
      His views and loud opinions about America were threatening the “exceptionalism”.
      I was, if fact, expecting a “signal” for a wide Malaysia establishment to “shut up”
      The two planes were the signal.

  15. March 17, 2016 at 2:40 am

    “Yet, despite the U.S. data, Westerbeke said the location of the launch site remains uncertain.”

    Moreover, in june 2015 the Dutch investigators took samples of the soil from a field designated to be the launchsite by Bellingcat, based on the famous picture of the launchplume.

    Taking into account this remark from Westerbeke neither the Bellingcat south-of-Snizhne field nor the launchplume picture can be taken seriously as leads any more.

  16. Thirdeye
    March 17, 2016 at 3:34 am

    We know that the Kiev government lied about not conducting air operations in the area. A Su-24 aircraft was seen in the same area as MH-17, behind and below. We also have a highly suspicious account of their shutting down all primary radar “for maintenance.” My take is that the UAF were on a crash training program for Buk crews using the Su-24 as a tracking target, accounting for the appearance of several Buk launchers in the area. One of the raw Buk crews tracked the wrong target and accidentally launched. Kiev seized, and quite likely destroyed, all relevant ATC radar records as part of a coverup. They had not considered that Russian radar had the area under surveillance, which confirmed the presence of the Su-24.

    I’m not buying the theory that MH-17 was shot down by the Su-24. An Su-24 is simply not the craft to use for shooting down an airliner at cruising altitude.

  17. March 17, 2016 at 8:24 am

    Thanks for this summary. Only a fool or a dupe would be unable to connect the dots. About the only question remaining is whether Kerry lied or was lied to.

  18. March 17, 2016 at 9:45 am

    This case is not all that curious. The same thing happened with the investigation of the crash of TWA Flight 800 off Long Island in the summer of 1996. In that case, the investigation was shut down by the American government in favour of a 15 minute cartoon explaining the crash which was produced by the CIA. This cartoon has been widely shown to have been incorrect in its presentation of facts and its conclusions by multiple independent experts. These same experts, investigating independently, are almost unanimous in their opinions to the effect that the aircraft was hit by a surface to air missile.fired mistakenly by an American naval craft which was holding exercises in the area at the time. The families of several victims of this crash are still trying to get justice and the truth through the courts. The Corruption of an official crash investigation, which is tightly regulated by law, is a high crime. Whatever propaganda purposes are served that the blame for the MH17 crash is temporarily pinned on Putin, Russians or Russian speaking Ukrainians, the truth will be devastating for the propagandists and those covering up, and will have to be compensated by considerable damages when the actual truth is announced. The alternative press would do a service to that truth and to the victims, to link these two cases, even now. The first thing to call for is the end to the veto that the states have on the publishing of the results of the investigation.

    • dahoit
      March 17, 2016 at 10:50 am

      A few years ago? a couple of the govt agents who investigated 800 said it was a coverup.Haven’t heard any follow up to that claim.
      Cowed to silence?

    • Curious
      March 17, 2016 at 8:03 pm

      Yes Michael, This another case of an investigation gone awry. Since I was traveling on a lot of 747s at that time I had the chance to talk with engineers about the conclusions of the investigation. If I remember correctly, the story was a spark igniting the empty center fuel tank. The conflict of interest was very apparent to many since there was no way Boeing would want to jeopardize their lucrative government contracts, so they pulled a lot of 747s out of service to re-wire the 747s. I won’t pretend to know what was talked about within the Boeing network, as I only want to add that the story was very difficult for people to understand or refute in any substantive way. Even the eyewitnesses of a vapor trail didn’t change many opinions.

  19. March 17, 2016 at 10:34 am

    Nice to know that my posts which are not deleted are not read, and that I don’t even exist on this site.

    So long.

  20. JOhn
    March 17, 2016 at 11:11 am

    Wow, what a biased article. Author completely forgets and ignores all the gazillion scenarios Russia had come up with during the initial investigation before the report in October last year was released. Now they have finally accepted the BUK theory (which was ridiculed by Kremlin all this time before). And now its not their BUK! Yep, it was Ukrainian Buk!.. yeah ok. Why not to write about when Russia interviewed fake su-25 pilots, faked their radar data, pretended they don’t possess those particular BUK missiles, vetoed criminal tribunal and so on?

    • Andre
      March 17, 2016 at 4:09 pm

      If you believe the article is biased, please describe which facts the author got wrong. I see nothing wrong with putting forth scenarios for what may have happened. The job of the investigative team is to evaluate all possible scenarios, not only the scenario that is the most favorable politically.

      If you believe that questions to which Mr Parry does not know the answers have been answered adequately by the US officials, please share with everyone. If the Russian military is indeed implicated in the launch and the US “knows that for sure”, please present that evidence.

      As far as the tribunal is concerned, I do not see why a tribunal should be set up before the investigative team finished their work and can put forth a credible case. To my knowledge, there have not been a call for international tribunal in the downing of many other air planes, including the Russian plane that was brought down over Egypt last fall, and many before then.

    • March 18, 2016 at 2:30 am

      In fact Russia neither confirmed nor denied the BUK theory.

      At a presser on the 21st of july 2014 they issued a satellite image of two BUK units apparently positioned just south of the small village Zaroshchenskoye. They also provided information about enhanced activity of Kupol radar facilities, part of a complete BUK combat unit.

      Then in june 2015 defebse contractor Almz Antey issued a technical report showing that if a BUK was used it was fired from a location corresponding to the site the satellite imagary showed.

      The story about Russians switching the official story is clearly spin disseminated by pro-Kiev parties. Actually, the Russians neither claimed jets shot down MH17. They only pointed to the alleged presence of SU-25 fighter jets in the vicinity of MH17.

    • Curious
      March 19, 2016 at 2:25 am

      DAer, JOhn,

      re: flight 800

      May I sugest you provide some alternative to the word “bias”. The use of words is important. Without “bias”, as one example, even recording heads in tape recorders would not have the appropriate method to record (voltage provides a reference) and it has many meanings, which I’m sure are not yours. Many newspapers, although pretending lack of bias, repeatedly show stock footage of people and especially candidates include a photo to their article as either smiling, pouting or sweating e.g. Since these ‘stock’ photos are in no way representative of an actual event, bias takes all forms. Please educate yourself. A two year old photo of a candidate in a pout, looking down instead of at a camera or smiling, is used over and over again. Many people think this photo was was taken at the time of the issue at hand, to their folly.

      Everyone has a bias, and to pretend no-one has a point of view is is right out of the first grade. And your use of the word proves you have one as well. By individuals putting words on a page reflects a certain position, although many are more informed than others and deserve to be heard, one should appreciate the knowledge of their background which contributes to a story.

      Education is more than throwing darts at items one disagrees with, which shakes up their dogma, presuppositions, or simply a lack of studies. I think a better use of disagreements is to provide personal experience or a more studious mind.

      Please try again with either personal experience or fact. In this case, explain to the people in the know, who were baffled why the FBI took over the investigation. This is not only very rare, but lacking in presidence.

      Very much can be said for the the sad MH-17. There are too many fingers in the pie so the investigators are blocked, threatened, and their voices quashed. It doesn’t take much reading on the internet to substantiate a pattern that has existed for quite some. time around other investigations, especially if the US is complicit. Good luck in keeping an open mind in your studies.

      To end, having Ukraine part of the investigation of MH-17 is the ultimate slap in the face. Their hands are soaking in the blood of their people and the tragic lives on that plane.

  21. Joop
    March 17, 2016 at 11:19 am

    Kiew lied about the presence of Ukraine SU-25’s in the air that day. In fact, there was an airwar going on. Sorry, the link is in Dutch.

    http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2015/

    In perspective to the above, ‘coincidently’ the Urkaine primary radar didn’t work that day in which they gave three reasons for it:

    1. The primary radar was shutdown because there was no military aviation that day;
    2, The primary radar was shutdown due to maintenance;
    3. The primary radar was broken due to war activities.

    And now I read a fourth excuse in this article, they didn’t save raw primary radar data!

    Maybe it’s a matter of interpretation, but I can see bulletholes quite clear here!

    http://www.anderweltonline.com

    One eyewitness, Lev Aleksandrovich Bulatov, saw it al happen. By the way, the website is from Max van der Werff, who interviewed Lev Aleksandrovich by himself, personally.

    http://kremlintroll.nl/?p=340

    Lev Aleksandrovich Bulatov saw three fighterjets and two of them were shotdown! Were this the two SU-25’s which were downed on 16 July 2014? Did Kiew lied about that also?

    Dutch parliamentarian Pieter Omtzigt wrote to me that there are two unindentified blibs visible on the radar. One of them the investigators interpreted as falling debris from MH-17, the other one is still unknown.

  22. Mistaron
    March 17, 2016 at 1:12 pm

    Thanks go to Mr Parry for the update.

    There was one thing I would take issue with. It is the suggestion that the attack was a tragic accident.

    For myself, having followed this since the Maidan, I honestly believe that there is an over-proportional abundance of circumstantial evidence, which suggests that the Uke’s, with covert US approval, were indeed the ones responsible for the take-down of MH17, the purpose of which, was and still is, the cold, calculated ploy used to demonise and goad the RF, and particularly Vladimir Putin, into responding directly and militarily.

    There is so much wrong with the way this investigation has been set up and is being conducted, that I can’t understand why anyone would imagine that there could be a true and judicious resolution coming from so much obfuscation, contradiction, and outright lies.

    Incidentally, not sure if I might have missed something on the ‘black-boxes’, or have they been swallowed up and forgotten?

  23. Gregg
    March 17, 2016 at 1:33 pm

    Thank you very much for this important information! I hope you can get this information out to the broader media as soon as possible.

  24. Karl Pomeroy
    March 17, 2016 at 2:08 pm

    Thanks for the excellent article. The Dutch investigation team concludes without proof that MH17 was shot down by a BUK missile. There are many reasons to doubt this scenario and conclude instead that the airliner was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet. Also—and I do not know if you are prepared for this—there is a viable theory the Ukrainian shootdown was carried out as part of Kiev’s strategic war plan to divide the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics and sever their coordinated military efforts. This fits all the facts. See:

    http://quemadoinstitute.org/2015/07/29/flight-mh17-theory-on-the-motive-for-the-shootdown-repost/

    http://quemadoinstitute.org/2015/10/16/mh17-dutch-investigation-weak-inconclusive-quemado-institute-analysis/

  25. Bob in Portland
    March 17, 2016 at 2:51 pm

    Here’s the problem with the “the Ukrainians accidentally shot down MH17” theory:

    First, immediately after the shootdown the Ukrainian authorities immediately released a fake recording of rebels allegedly talking about shooting down MH 17. If you are making false documents beforehand then you know what is going to happen.

    Second, immediately after the shootdown all tapes from the control tower monitoring the event were seized by Ukrainian authorities, Ukrainian troops moved into the control tower to lock it down. The last time I saw anything about the recordings in the control tower a bureaucrat claimed that they were “lost”.

    Third, it is unlikely that the US wouldn’t have known about a false flag, or that they would be “forced” into lying about the evidence, as Kerry apparently did. Also, immediately after the coup the top floor of the American embassy was turned over to a large contingent of CIA operatives. Does anyone really believe that the US has been sucked into a false flag, taken the step to sanction Russia based on a lie that the Ukrainian junta imposed on them?

    No, this was a false flag all the way, and as usual it’ll take a decade or two for the average American to figure it out.

    • AndJusticeForAll
      March 18, 2016 at 6:42 am

      great post Bob. Add to this that Kurginyan and Gubarev were discussing in June of 2014 that soon they will get a bunch of tanks and anti-aircraft weapons. Then in a few days a Ukrainian military air defense base near Donetsk (also in Dutch report) was captured by rebels and they were showing everywhere that they captured Buk systems. Ukranian government said that there were no operational systems only training equipment. That did not stop terrorists and in a few days there were pictures of working Buk coming from the East. Did I spoil your emotional and full of evidence post?

  26. Peter
    March 17, 2016 at 3:11 pm

    It would not be the first time for Ukraine; they even admitted the shot down a Russian airliner in 2001. Surprised no one brought that aspect up.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1359353/Ukraine-admits-it-shot-down-Russian-airliner.html

  27. AndJusticeForAll
    March 17, 2016 at 3:41 pm

    Mr. Perry can you explain where exactly did you get this?
    “In a Dutch report released last October, the Netherlands’ Military Intelligence and Security Service (MIVD) reported that the only anti-aircraft weapons in eastern Ukraine capable of bringing down MH-17 at 33,000 feet belonged to the Ukrainian government.”

    Because this is what is in the report:”According to the information the Services possessed, the Russian and Ukrainian armed forces had the capacity and potential to hit a civil aeroplanes at cruising altitude. However, they did not have the intention. There were no indications that they were engaged in activities (such as preparations) targeted against civil aeroplanes.
    • The AIVD and the MIVD did not have any indication that the Separatists had the capacity to hit civil aeroplanes at cruising altitude. Moreover, there were no indications either that they would target civil aeroplane or that they were engaged in activities with this objective in mind.”

    If somebody paid for this low quality collection of interpretation of facts they have to feel ripped off.

    • Pancho Villa
      March 17, 2016 at 6:06 pm

      In the domain of straightforward logic? What kind of question is that?

      If the “separatists” didn´t have the capacity and, as it is stated on page 23 of the report “such systems, if they were indeed powerful [Russian] anti-aircraft systems, had not (or not yet) been delivered to the Separatists in Ukraine!]”; then who else had powerful anti-aircraft systems in Ukraine? The Mexicans, the Chinese? the Gambians? Or are you suggesting that Russian experts trained to operate such complex weapons targeted a civilian aircraft from Russia and, furthermore, that no one has discovered that yet?

      I would rather bet that they belonged to Ukraine. You should too.

      • AndJusticeForAll
        March 18, 2016 at 12:45 pm

        in the domain of straightforward logic the report is inconclusive, because of lack of evidence other then that both Russians and Ukrainians had capability. Both AIDV and MIDV did not have means to collect evidence if separatists/terrorists possessed Buk or not. You are free to continue believing in half truths.

        • Pancho Villa
          March 19, 2016 at 9:12 am

          I rather believe what the Dutch intelligence says in its report:

          “On 16 July, the AIVD received a report from a reliable source that stated that there was no information that indicated that the Separatists possessed a medium-range SAM system”

          “The AIVD did not have any information that indicated that the Separatists possessed an operational, powerful anti-aircraft system such as a Buk system, also called an SA-11, prior to the crash of flight MH17.”

          “The AIVD had no indications that the Russian Federation had provided the Separatists with powerful anti-aircraft systems.”

          So No half truths here, Mr. Parry, whom you are trying to demean, made an obvious conclusion based on what Dutch intelligence reported: there were no indications at all that the separatists owned a BUK or that the Russians sent a BUK to Eastern Ukraine, hence the only party with those capabilities was the Ukranian army.

          Now please explain what do you mean when you say the Dutch General Intelligence and Security Service and Dutch Military intelligence didn´t have the means to collect evidence? Because that´s kind of their work, isn´t it? Or perhaps you happen to know the whereabouts of all Dutch intelligence officers and spies at all times? If that´s the case do share.

    • Joe L.
      March 17, 2016 at 6:49 pm

      Well it is very curious and I think that Mr. Parry hits the nail on the head. From reading through the document it stated according to what the AIVD and MIVD knew before the shoot down of MH-17 was that the “separatists” or “pro-Russian separatists”, whatever you wish to call them, did not have a BUK system capable of shooting down MH-17 (even though we heard Kerry immediately blame them). As you have pointed out, it points to only Russia or Ukraine having the capability to bring down MH-17. So for me, this also brings into question Bellingcat’s investigation, the blogger, since his supposed evidence points to the separatists using a BUK to bring down MH-17. Wasn’t it Bellingcat who wrote that it was Russia that supplied the BUK system, snuck it across the Russian/Ukrainian border, to the separatists and then it fled back across the border into Russia? But that also conflicts with this report and the one from the German BND who stated that the BUK missile system was “captured” from a Ukrainian Military base by separatists who subsequently used the BUK system to shoot down MH-17 and the other disturbing part is that the BND also concluded that “Ukrainian photos have been manipulated and that there are details indicating this” (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-intelligence-blames-pro-russian-separatists-for-mh17-downing-a-997972.html).

      I think that the MH-17 narrative is a very cloudy subject and I find it quite disturbing that Ukraine itself is part of this investigation since it is one of the parties in question. I also don’t like the fact the investigating parties have to ability to cover up information in the investigation and, for me, that makes me wonder what any of the parties has to hide? I think it is very cloudy indeed…

    • Schinazi
      March 18, 2016 at 12:45 pm

      “According to the MIVD’s information, the Ukrainian armed forces mainly possessed outdated resources,
      including, however, certain powerful anti-aircraft systems. A number of these systems were located
      in the eastern part of the country.”

      § 5.2.2. of the report

      • AndJusticeForAll
        March 18, 2016 at 2:33 pm

        The report does not claim that Ukraine was the only one who has it in that region. It is inconclusive who had it from this particular report. But this case demonstrates how easy the information can be manipulated and it was done so obvious and cheap.

        • Schinazi
          March 18, 2016 at 4:46 pm

          The report only identifies Ukraine as having SAM’s in the eastern part of Ukraine. It also says Russia had SAM’s at the Russia to Ukraine border in Russian territory. And separatists as having Manpad type weapons.

          • AndJusticeForAll
            March 19, 2016 at 11:17 am

            let me ask you this based on what you said. Can we conclude that capability to hit a target in Eastern Ukraine was only Ukrainian or Russians were capable too? Is that conclusion in the report or not?

  28. MrK
    March 17, 2016 at 7:20 pm

    In April, there is a referendum in the Netherlands over a trade agreement, euphemistically called an ‘Association Agreement’ with Ukraine. See more here.

  29. James O'Neill
    March 17, 2016 at 7:24 pm

    Bob, thanks for persevering with this story. There are just a few points I would like to make.
    First, the RussianFederal Air Transport Agency also released a statement in February 2016. Among other things it said that Russian primary radar data had been supplied to the DSB in August 2014. They still have the data and it is available for anyone wanting to check.
    Secondly I refer some of the above commenters to Appendix T of the DSB Report. It sets out in some detail who had operational BUKs in Ukraine at the time and it wasn’t the “separatists”.
    Thirdly, there were three US satellites overhead Donbass at the material time, two of the SBIRS type and one STSS. Between them they have the capability to detect and track missile launches. The existence of cloud cover or otherwise is a massive red herring. The exact launch location is known.
    Fourthly, Westerbeke’s letter confirmed that the US had supplied to satellite data to the Dutch Security Service. That information is classified. One major issue will be whether or not the data are useable in a criminal prosecution. The Dutch hope to resolve that by the latter half of this year.
    A more general point in this context is that if the US satellite data had shown that it was fired by the separatists (or the Russians) is it not a reasonable assumption that that evidence would be shouted from every rooftop in the west? The US silence on the point is in my view extremely revealing.

    • Joe L.
      March 17, 2016 at 7:40 pm

      I agree, if the US had the smoking gun then in no way would the images be “classified” they would have absolutely have shown them which they would use as a complete justification for sanctions, and vilification, against Russia for the foreseeable future. Shouldn’t we be familiar with this though, speaking without any proof. At the very least they should have brought in Colin Powell after his performance before the UN to justify invading Iraq. Even look at “red lines” on Syria with Obama and Kerry both saying that only Assad could have used chemical weapons meanwhile Carla Del Ponte, I believe lead UN investigator, pointed to the rebels being responsible then we have Al Nusra being caught with 2 kg of Sarin Gas in Turkey and now we have ISIS being accused of creating chemical weapons. What a tangled web we weave when first we are to deceive!

      • Liam
        March 22, 2016 at 7:48 pm

        Here an easily researchable, little known fact, Elliot Higgins of Bellingcat, A.K.A.”Brown Moses”, was the person that disseminated to the world the photos of Russian rockets used in the Syrian false flag chemical weapons attack of summer 2013. His accomplice in this endeavor was Dr. Igor Sutyagin of the British Mi5 firm RUSI (Royal United Services Institute). Interestingly, Elliot Higgins established and set up the Bellingcat website just 4 days before MH-17 was shot down, and the very day it came down Dr. Igor Sutyagin gave out misinformation to the Daily Mail UK about the pilots actions and Ukrainian aircraft in the surrounding area. Here’s the link that establishes the connections between the two of them. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9af_1432256107

  30. william beeby
    March 18, 2016 at 3:10 am

    How can they be so cruel to the families of those who were murdered and not release ALL they know about what happened ? By they I mean all parties who have information but mostly of course the USA and the Kiev junta . They say the victors of wars always write the history to suit their case but since 911 all we have had is lies and twisted propaganda so they will not be able to fool us this time. Seriously in 30 years time what will the history books say about the events of the first 16 years of this century ?

  31. ResearchGuy
    March 18, 2016 at 10:24 am

    I’m surprised that nothing has been mentioned about any FOIA request to the State and Defense Departments for any and all evidence that might be in their possession — such as the very radar and/or satellite data that Kerry alluded to having. It would be hard to imagine what exemption would be claimed. They are not engaged in a criminal investigation of the incident, so they can’t use that exemption. It seems like they would have to simply deny that any such evidence was found in their searches, which would put the lie to what Kerry said. Of course you have to be prepared to bring a lawsuit because they would obfuscate and drag their feet as long as possible. But it seems like you would have the resources to do at least some legal battling over this. You could launch a crowdfunding campaign to fund it.

    • Scandinavian
      March 27, 2016 at 5:28 pm

      This is a very good suggestion. Now I also wonder why no one – apparently – has made a FOIA request for the evidence. Mr. Parry, could you do it?

  32. March 18, 2016 at 11:08 am

    “So, perhaps the most logical suspicion would be that the Ukrainian military, then engaged in an offensive in the east and fearing a possible Russian invasion, moved its Buk missile systems up to the front and an undisciplined crew fired a missile at a suspected Russian aircraft, bringing down MH-17 by accident.”

    It was not an accident. It was a planned false flag operation with the goal to break the ties between Russia and EU.

    Mike Whitney even predicted a heavy false flag operation just a week bevore the MH 17 shhotdown:
    “So all Putin has to do is sit-tight and he wins, mainly because the EU needs Moscow’s gas. If energy supplies are terminated or drastically reduced, prices will rise, the EU will slide back into recession, and Washington will take the blame. So Washington has a very small window to draw Putin into the fray, which is why we should expect another false flag incident on a much larger scale than the fire in Odessa. Washington is going to have to do something really big and make it look like it was Moscow’s doing. Otherwise, their pivot plan is going to hit a brick wall.”
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/09/pushing-ukraine-to-the-brink/

    It came exactly as predicted.

    • Brendan
      March 19, 2016 at 5:52 am

      There was also an interesting comment from 15. Jul 2014, just two days before MH17 was shot down. A Ukrainian official, who saw the EU as being too soft against Russia, said “What can we do to make the EU understand the realities of this conflict?” :

      “US and Ukraine urge tougher EU sanctions on Russia”
      https://euobserver.com/foreign/124979
      “With several EU states – including France, Germany, Italy, and Spain – opposed to tougher action on Russia during last week’s sanctions talks in Brussels, Washington and Kiev seem unlikely to get their way.

      Referring to a meeting between German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian leader Vladimir Putin in Brazil on Sunday, in which they urged Ukraine to launch peace talks with rebel leaders despite the ongoing hostilities, a Ukrainian diplomatic source told EUobserver: “When I see things like this, I think to myself: ‘What can we do to make the EU understand the realities of this conflict?’.” “

  33. March 18, 2016 at 4:22 pm

    Malaysia joined JIT months later. They complained about not being invited to the JIT investigation and had to try very hard to be part of the JIT.

    PS. Cited your article on my blog

  34. March 18, 2016 at 4:25 pm

    “Besides the Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia are participating in the investigation, being the four members of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT). On Dutch television, the Malaysian ambassador to the Netherlands expressed displeasure at Malaysia not being included in the JIT. Although the Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte visited Malaysia in November, saying that Malaysia should join the investigation, Malaysia has not yet been invited to join the JIT. The Malaysian ambassador to the Netherlands said, ‘The Dutch PM alone cannot decide. He also has to ask Australia and Ukraine.’”.
    http://blauerbote.com/2014/11/23/mh17-geheimabkommen-aller-vier-untersuchungsteamlander-ukraine-niederlande-belgien-australien/

  35. Joe Tedesky
    March 19, 2016 at 1:35 am

    The saddest part of this story, is when someone brings up Malaysian Flight MH17, another person will ask if that’s the one that went down over the Indian Ocean. I don’t watch a lot of TV news with the sound on, but from what I can see, is this story about MH17 is DOA. Occasionally someone in the MSM drags out some screwy BellingCat pussy litter garbage news, and leaves it with that’s why the sanctions are still in place, but that’s it. Then cut to a shirtless Vlad picture, and so goes the news. So, thanks to reporters like Robert Parry to never forget, and let’s hope somehow, someday the truth will prevail. MH17 had 298 lives on board, they, and their families deserve better.

  36. wootendw
    March 19, 2016 at 3:15 am

    Consider that over 32 years ago, Soviet fighter jet shot down KAL 007 when it ventured into Soviet airspace for whatever reason or non-reason. The Soviets denied it until a recording of the Soviet pilot’s conversation with his commanders was played at the UN. 32 years is an eon in technological development terms and in the mean time, the US has fought a number of wars and experienced 9/11. Satellites would surely have been scanning a former Soviet colony during a civil war. So it should be obvious that someones in the US government know exactly what happened to the MH17.

  37. Baldurdasche
    March 19, 2016 at 7:48 am

    The MH 17 incident pushed ‘the west’ into more than mere annoyance at Russia. It has cemented in the public mind an inevitable need to confront Russia at some time in the future. Then, too, other similar propaganda has done the same thing for Iran. And the latest variety is painting an inimical perspective on China. North Korea really isn’t worth the effort, but America has clearlty defined its future enemies …. and the need to maintain an armed superiority over them and the world. But right now there’s radical Islam and a GWOT..

  38. Kim Looi
    March 19, 2016 at 8:15 am

    Thank you Robert Parry for keeping alive MH17 tragedy.

  39. Abe
    March 19, 2016 at 12:54 pm

    “When Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down over Eastern Ukraine on 17 July 2014, Australian politicians and the mainstream media, especially the Murdoch newspapers, were quick to apportion blame. Responsibility for the disaster was immediately attributed to Russia, either directly or thorough Russian support for the so-called “separatists” in the Donbass region.

    “For the Australian politicians and media it was a case of “guilty as alleged” although at that time in the immediate aftermath of the disaster there was no evidence upon which to form any conclusions […]

    “The only clear point to emerge in Australia in the 21 months since the disaster is that the government and the mainstream media are determined to, on the one hand deny the public vital information about the disaster, and on the other hand maintain the fiction that the disaster was the fault of Russian backed separatists.

    “That line serves to justify the sanctions imposed on Russia and the continuing demonization of President Putin. If only Prime Minister Turnbull’s plea for an intelligent and adult dialogue was sincere. If that were the case the Australian public would be better informed than they are. It seems a very vain hope.”

    Australia Still Reluctant to Disclose MH17 Information
    By James ONeill
    http://journal-neo.org/2016/03/19/australia-still-reluctant-to-disclose-mh17-information/

  40. Schinazi
    March 20, 2016 at 6:10 am

    @”AndJusticeForAll ”

    [quote]let me ask you this based on what you said. Can we conclude that capability to hit a target in Eastern Ukraine was only Ukrainian or Russians were capable too? Is that conclusion in the report or not?[/quote].

    The report does not address who fired the missile, it identifies who had the capabilities to do so; Russia could fire a SAM from the Russia-Ukraine border, Ukraine could do the same from Eastern Ukraine territory. The rebels had no SAM system.

    However, another report from the JIT says that the missile was fired from a 320 km² area around a certain village (I don’t remember the name) which excludes the Russia-Ukraine border. I don’t remember that any western government directly accused Russia for shooting down the airliner from its own territory. But they al accused the Russian backed rebels and today, this rhetoric is presented as a fact. Not a suspicion.

  41. MoT
    March 20, 2016 at 7:59 am

    Just like the Russian airliner that blew up over Sinai the deaths of those people and the Malaysian aircraft are tossed aside and ignored. But have it happen in the streets of Paris then somehow, magically, it’s something entirely different.

  42. MoT
    March 20, 2016 at 8:04 am

    Kerry, much like his handler Obama, is a despicable tool. His shameless shysterisms would make any self respecting prostitute blush. Not that whore.

  43. Thucydides
    March 20, 2016 at 8:38 am

    Kerry is known to talk crap most of the time he opens his mouth, so I would not give any credibility to his statement. But the issue of the US radar data still needs to be clarified, of course.

  44. Quartermaster
    March 21, 2016 at 2:21 pm

    It’s unlikely the US has any info on the matter.

    The Dutch have made two claims, the ones referenced in this article, and others where they claimed to know the Russian Army Battalion that fired the missile. I don’t know of anyone claiming the Russian supported terrorists fired the missile. The search for motives, however, tends to lean towards the Russian. The Ukrainians had less than nothing to gain. The Russians had a lot ot gain by doing it, then pinning it on the Ukrainians.

    The Russians had the missiles in the Donbas, along with a lot of other heavy equipment operated by Russian troops.

    • Schinazi
      March 24, 2016 at 4:30 pm

      Are you kidding?
      The Russian had a lot to gain? You really believe that anyone in the west would agree that it could be the Ukrainians after fully supporting Ukraine coup? As a matter of fact, who got the sanctions even without actual evidence about who fired the missile? I will reverse your logic: the Ukrainians had a LOT of reasons to have the Russian being accused (with the total absolution from the US since it would suit its interests too) and besides, they had the means to do it without needing to seize a Bouk battery from the rebels or from Russia, since they had many.

  45. March 21, 2016 at 6:04 pm

    The explanation of the MH-17 shooting-down is laid out in https://www.academia.edu/20045616/USA_s_semi-hot_war_for_control_of_Russia_s_natural_resources_the_Syrian_episode and the respective bibliography therein.

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