Exclusive: The spectacle of clueless U.S. media personalities, like George Stephanopoulos, chastising Donald Trump for getting facts wrong would be funny if it weren’t indicative of a political-media system failing the American people and what’s left of the democratic Republic, writes Robert Parry.
By Robert Parry
Mainstream media and politicians are fond of denouncing Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump for trafficking in conspiracy theories and playing fast and loose with the facts, but some of them slide into the same patterns in attacking Trump or other demonized leaders, such as Russian President Vladimir Putin.
For instance, on ABC-TV’s “This Week,” host George Stephanopoulos deployed a favorite “conspiracy theory” technique to accuse Putin of murdering journalists and then demanded that Trump explain why he would welcome praise from such a nefarious character. The technique was to cite a sizable number of “mysterious deaths” as proof that the conspiracy-theory target was guilty, even if there was no specific evidence in any individual case.
ABC-TV anchor George Stephanopoulos.
Stephanopoulos challenged Trump by asking: “When you were pressed about [Putin’s] killing of journalists, you said, ‘I think our country does plenty of killing too.’ What were you thinking about there? What killing sanctioned by the U.S. government is like killing journalists?”
Trump responded that “in all fairness to Putin, you’re saying he killed people. I haven’t seen that. I don’t know that he has. Have you been able to prove that? Do you know the names of the reporters that he’s killed? Because I’ve been — you know, you’ve been hearing this, but I haven’t seen the name. Now, I think it would be despicable if that took place, but I haven’t’ seen any evidence that he killed anybody in terms of reporters.”
Stephanopoulos then backed up his murder charge against Putin by saying: “here’s what Mitt Romney tweeted about that. He said, there’s an important distinction here. Thug Putin kills journalists and opponents. Our presidents kill terrorists and enemy combatants.”
Trump answered back, “Does he [Romney] know for a fact that he [Putin] kills the reporters? I don’t know — I don’t think anybody knows that. It’s possible that he does. But I don’t think it’s been proven. Has anybody proven that he’s killed reporters? And I’m not trying to stick up for anybody.”
Stephanopoulos: “There have been many allegations that he was behind the killing of (INAUDIBLE) and …”
Trump: “No, no, allegations. There are allegations. Yes, sure, there are allegations. I’ve read those allegations over the years, but nobody’s proven that he’s killed anybody as far as I’m concerned. He hasn’t killed reporters that it’s been proven. Now, if he has”
Stephanopoulos’s next rejoinder was perhaps even more startling: “But what killing has the United States government done?”
Sadly, such cluelessness is now typical of the mainstream U.S. news media as if these “journalists” have been hiding under a rock for the past 15 years if not much longer. But back to the aspect of Stephanopoulos’s charge against Putin that just because there are lots of allegations even without supporting evidence we must accept a person’s guilt.
Clinton’s ‘Mysterious Deaths’
That “conspiracy theory” technique should be familiar to Stephanopoulos since he was an aide to President Bill Clinton when right-wing enemies compiled a list of “Clinton’s mysterious deaths,” which included anyone who had even tangential contact with Arkansas Gov. Clinton and then died in some “suspicious” manner.
The best known of these cases was deputy White House counsel Vincent Foster who became distraught over becoming the subject of other scandal-mongering and committed suicide on July 20, 1993, but the “strength” of the “murder” allegations against Clinton was in the lengthy list of “mysterious deaths.”
At the time, a longtime conservative source faxed me the list, marveling at the number and saying that if even a few were true that would be “a big story.” I responded that if even one were true that a sitting U.S. president had murdered a single political opponent “that would be a big story, but there’s got to be proof.”
Many of the cases on the list were murky old tales from Arkansas, but I noticed one fairly recent one with a local angle. A federal bureaucrat who had some minor connection to the investigation of Clinton’s Whitewater real-estate investment had died from a fall out of a new apartment high-rise in Arlington, Virginia.
But it really wasn’t much of a mystery. My investigation quickly determined that the man was suffering from AIDS and was faced with a grim prognosis. So, he traveled from his home in Washington D.C. to Arlington, asked a real-estate agent to show him a top-floor apartment, went to the balcony, asked the startled young woman if what he was about to do would hurt, and jumped to his death. (I even interviewed the poor woman.)
President Clinton had nothing to do with this tragedy, a fact that I imparted to my conservative source who was in touch with the makers of the list. Yet, several months later when an updated list was sent my way, the same “mystery” was still there.
In other words, the list creators were not interested in fairness toward Clinton or the merits of any one case. They understood that it was the cumulative number of cases that sent the desired propaganda message, building up a suspicion that Clinton was a murderer. Then, anyone who challenged the methodology and pointed to the absence of any real proof could be dismissed as a “Clinton apologist.”
Stephanopoulos saw these tactics up close in the 1990s. I even met with him once at his White House office to discuss this pattern of right-wing conspiracy-mongering. But now he is practicing the same tactics against Putin and Trump.
The WMD Scam
In the early 2000s, a similar technique was used to trick the U.S. intelligence community into buying into the falsehoods about Iraq’s Saddam Hussein hiding stockpiles of WMD and reviving a nuclear-weapons program. Then, it was a case of the Iraqi National Congress funneling a series of Iraqi “defectors” into the CIA with well-rehearsed tales about supposed first-hand knowledge of Hussein’s trickery.
As at least 19 “defectors” walked in, the CIA analysts succeeded in debunking some of them, but the sheer number combined with heavy White House pressure to find “proof” of its WMD claims led the analysts to begin accepting the allegations as true. Only after the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 did the CIA analysts realize that they had been had by an organized effort at fabrication. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “Chalabi’s Legacy of Lies.”]
Given the U.S.-inflicted havoc on Iraq, Afghanistan and a wide variety of other countries including a large number of civilian deaths the rest of Stephanopoulos’s tirade toward Trump on Sunday was instructive about other deep-seated biases of Official Washington and its compliant mainstream media.
Though a key principle of journalism is objectivity, Stephanopoulos made it clear that he was part of Official Washington’s team, decrying Putin “when he backs our adversaries like [Syrian President] Bashar Assad, when he backs Iran, when he invades Ukraine.” He then asked Trump, “Is it wise to be praising our adversaries and alienating our allies?”
Stephanopoulos added, “you said, ‘I think our country does plenty of killing too.’ What killing are you talking about there, ordered by the United States government?”
Trump answered: “Well, take a look at what we’re doing in the Middle East. We went into Iraq. We shouldn’t have. You know that I was opposed to going into Iraq many years ago. In 2003/2004 there were headlines in Reuters that Trump is opposed to the war, because you’re going to destabilize the Middle East.
“I said, if you do this, you’ll destabilize the Middle East and Iran will take over. Very simple, Iran will take over Iraq. That’s exactly what’s happening. And on top of that we have ISIS, which is another problem and another complicating factor. Now, we should have never gone into Iraq. When we left, we made a mistake.
“We made a big mistake with Libya. We’ve destabilized all these places. We now have a migration with thousands and hundreds of thousands and even millions of people that don’t know where they’re going. I mean it’s a terrible thing. We have been run by incompetent people, incompetent politicians. They don’t know — and that’s probably why I’m leading so high in the polls because people are tired of seeing very, very stupid and very, very incompetent people running our country into the ground.
“In the meantime, we owe $19 trillion, soon going to be $21 trillion and we better get our act together fast, George, because our country is going down if we don’t.”
‘Moral Equivalence’
In stunned disbelief, Stephanopoulos shot back with the old “moral equivalence” argument that was developed by CIA propagandists and neoconservatives during the Reagan administration to justify U.S.-backed slaughters in Central America and elsewhere: “Your comments seem to suggest some moral equivalence for the United States and Russia. Is that what you believe?”
Trump: “I’m not saying anything. I’m saying, when you say a man [Putin] has killed reporters, I’d like you to prove it. And I’m — I’m saying it would be a terrible thing if it were true, but I have never seen any information or any proof that he killed reporters, George. You’re just saying, he killed reporters. You and other people tell me he killed reporters. I don’t know that he killed reporters. I haven’t seen it. If he did, I think it’s despicable. I think it would be horrible. But you’re making these accusations and I don’t — I don’t see any proof. And, by the way, he totally denies that he kills reporters. He totally denied it.”
Stephanopoulos: “I’m still waiting for the evidence that we’ve been directly involved in killing people as well. You made your points about Iraq. But I do want to move on.”
As hard as it may be to believe, Stephanopoulos presenting himself as a leading American journalist pretends to be unaware of the killings associated with the brutal interrogations of “war on terror” and Iraq War detainees, the targeted drone killings that both President George W. Bush and President Barack Obama have signed off on, the mass slaughter of citizens in Fallujah and other Iraqi cities bombarded by the U.S. military, the more recent killings of doctors and patients at a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan, and relevant to the issue of journalists the killings of Al Jazeera, Reuters and other reporters in Iraq.
One could go back through history and remind Stephanopoulos of many other examples of the U.S. government slaughtering large numbers of civilians either directly in places such as Vietnam or indirectly through proxies in regions such as Central and South America. But the stance of a “respectable” American “journalist” apparently must be that none of that ever happened or, if it did happen, it was all an unintended mistake.
Though Trump is regularly accused of getting his facts wrong, he responded to Stephanopoulos with incredulity: “Excuse me, take a look at the rampage all over the place. And you know what we’ve gotten for Iraq? We’ve spent $2 trillion, OK? We’ve — thousands, hundreds of thousands of people killed. We’ve lost thousands and thousands of our great young people, soldiers.
“So, $2 trillion, deaths, wounded warriors, we have nothing, and Iran is now taking over Iraq with the second largest oil reserves in the world. We’re run by people that don’t have a clue.”
But Stephanopoulos apparently did not realize that Donald Trump of all people had just taken him to school on the question of who had a better grasp of reality. So, the ABC-TV “newsman” lamely shot back with a non-sequitur: “And Iran has been backed by Vladimir Putin.”
While much of what Trump says can be fairly criticized for inaccuracies and exaggerations as well as for offensive and divisive rhetoric the sad reality is that the mainstream media personalities who pose as “truth-tellers” are often more detached from facts and more beholden to delusions than he is.
Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s. You can buy his latest book, America’s Stolen Narrative, either in print here or as an e-book (from Amazon and barnesandnoble.com).
Stephanopoulos on the left, tried to do the same thing to Trump that the Fox News moderators tried to do in the first debate. And Stephanopoulos like the Fox clowns before him, got it jammed down his throat. To his credit Stephanopoulos soldiered on unrelenting, trying, again and again, to get that “gotcha†moment,…and failed.
People wonder, because of Trump’s outrageous remarks, why he only gets more popular. Here’s the reason. Trump’s remarks are politically incorrect and somewhat off-putting, but so many people are so pissed off at the Washington elite, the political class, the one percent, and the talking-head legion that does their bidding by blathering their propaganda,….well,… the people hate the DC crowd and their spokes-liars quite a bit more. So when Trump makes fools of them, effortlessly stomps all over them, eviscerates them in their formerly untouchable, smarmy, echo-chamber overconfidence, and does it right there on tv in front of the entire world — the emperor has no clues,… and is ugly to boot — regular folks just can’t help but love the guy.
So Trump, who’s been a winner all his life because he knows how to win, knows it instinctively, will likely win yet again and go on to be the 45th President. The only question remaining is, when he gets there will he be as different in his exercise of power as he is in his campaign style? Will he kick ass and take names, or be just another suck up?
We shall see.
Robert, did you send a copy of this post to George?
Why waste billions of dollars on an election. Just have the Supreme Court appoint THE DONALD so we can continue the policies of Reagan/Bush/Cli nton/ W.Bush/Obama until they work.
Get the Neoconservative s out of “our” government.
WAKE UP AMERICA.
With six Catholics and three Jews making the decision, I somehow doubt their choice would be Trump. IMO Hillary would be the choice to contine the grand R/B/C/B2/O tradition. IMO Hillary would allow – or even encourage – the continued slow-motion destruction of women’s rights, and that would please the knuckle-dragging male Catholics. Her servile adoration of Israel would possibly delight one or more of the Jewish Justices.
Trump would be more of a ‘wild card’ and probably too much of a risk for the Powers That Be. Also, he’s said kind words about the latest and greatest Hitler – a fellow named Putin.
How many journalists were murdered during the term of Yeltsin a great friend of the US .. ? I know that many were killed but dont know how many. Did Yeltsin kill those journalists any more than Putin killed journalists. MY BS detector goes haywire whenever I hear the US media distort what goes on in Russia.
Stephanopoulos challenged Trump by asking: “… What killing sanctioned by the U.S. government is like killing journalists?â€
How about the journalists in the Palestine Hotel (a known hangout for journalists) in Baghdad after our military moved tanks there and fired into the hotel? Or, how about the Reuters photographer killed in the Collateral Murder video published on Wikileaks?
The MSM and American disdain for Russia, everything Russian and Vladimir Putin is childish, misguided and very possibly downright evil. Putin is a Christian, an elected leader and responsible for the purge of Jewish and Zionist oligarchs who were in cahoots with Zionist leaders in the US who destroyed the great country of Russia. Putin is restoring order and deserves credit, not disdain and layers upon layers of lies about who and what he is. The US and west’s plan for World Domination has had to step back, thanks to President Putin, who is the new leader of the free world. His approach is calculated and fosters appreciation amongst those of us who understand the reality of what a truly evil country ours has become. I love my country, but despise what it has become. Putin 2016! We need Zionism and it’s adherents to be washed from the sands of history. Zionism is a racist, supremacist, hateful ideology that has NO place in a world of sovereign humans and countries. It’s ‘dustbin of history’ time for the Zionist controllers and President Putin is possibly the last, best hope any awakened human being has for peace and prosperity on earth… who’s not a Zionist. Peace
Peace to you too.
It seem the better job Mr. Putin does, the more he is respected around the world and subsequently the more they want to demonize him , attack him , defraud him ,and undermine him. It seems in their playbook Its better to find a world leader of his stature and make him a scapegoat than be held account for the immense damage caused by their own fraud, greed and wanton aggression.
Yes!
“Taken him to school”? I’d say Trump absolutely schlonged him. ;-)
You are very wrong about Vince Foster, he was murdered.
5 levels of coverup followed.
All the murders around Clinton were done by the guns running drugs through Mena. Bollyn stated there was a Likhud criminal connection, I am looking for more evidence of that kind of thing, haven’t found it.
Vince Foster murdered? Where are you getting your information? Alex Jones, talk radio? Rethink your sources and check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLPL5p0fMg as well as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7zbEiNnY5M and
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/11/critical-thinking/#comments
None of these links are about Vince Foster and everything about HOW you and I think and evaluate information and reach conclusions, subject: Critical Thinking. Please check it out and leave room for the possibility you’ve gone down the wrong road. You’re not the first you won’t be the last (regrettably).
Best wishes
http://www.unz.com/proberts/donald-trump-an-evaluatiion/
“Trump cannot be a dissident politician without a dissident staff. He doesn’t know the people who would comprise a dissident staff. Trump knows how to make deals, and the Establishment will staff up a Trump presidency with deals. The minute Trump takes office, he would be already captured.”
If elected, he has to become allied to the republican leadership or he will be out of office in a couple of years over a “trumped up” scandal with no support from the right and enemies on the left.
Paraphrased from Anatoly Karlin:
There is absolutely no evidence that Putin ordered the assassination of a single journalist.
According to figures from the Committee to Protect Journalists – hardly a bastion of Putin apologists – journalist murders have plummeted in Russia under the reign of the Dark Lord of the Kremlin relative to the “free†and “democratic†1990s when the US was best buddies with Russia, or at least the oligarchs pillaging it, and for that matter whacking any journalists who dared report on their activities.
Literally MORE Russian journalists were murdered for their reporting under 8 years of Yeltsin than 15 years under Putin.
Russia has a lot of journalists – according to UN data, it has twice the number of newspaper journalists as the US (despite having half the population). Adjusted for per capita rates, Russian journalists have always been far safer than any number of “democratic†countries that get on with the US such as Brazil, Mexico, India, Colombia. Even in the 1990s. And this is despite the fact that under Putin, the CPJ has been actively trying to tie any murder of a Russian journalist it feasibly could to his or her professional activity, even where such connections are questionable or altogether non-existent. According to a 2008 analysis by blogger Fedia Kriukov, considerably more than 50% of the Russian journalists the CPJ claims were killed for their professional activities – that is, angering business interests, local authorities, etc. – actually turned out to be wholly or partially falsified. Note that Putin doesn’t even begin to enter into this.
As of this year, Russia imprisons only one journalist. It usually veers in the 0-1 range. Although even one is too much, but within the 1-3 range that even developed Western countries occasionally stray into. That consistently includes Israel; Italy in 2013; and for that matter, the US itself in 2013, though for some reason, the CPJ doesn’t count Barret Brown. (Another curious exception is Ukraine and the case of Ruslan Kotsaba, who is in prison and almost a year on still awaiting trial for calling the war in the Donbass a civil war and expressing his opposition to conscription). In contrast, Erdogan’s Turkey imprisons 14 journalists (an improvement from 40 in 2013). Of course that minor matter didn’t stop Jeb Bush from enthusiastically affirming his support for them when the Turks knocked a Russian warplane out of the sky for an accidental infringement of their territory for a few seconds.
On Russia, as on most other things, Trump steers a blazing path through Establishment lies.
as a cfr member, Stephanopoulos is little more than a stable-boy shoveling shit for the rich and powerful…hence his position at abc…his job is to cover the truth with a steaming pile of lies meant to provide us with ‘established facts’ so as to circumvent our natural impulse toward cognitive activity, regardless of what story he’s assigned to report on…dissimulation is the name of the game as far as the major media is concerned…it’s how every ruling clique maintains its disproportionate share of the common wealth…
Thanks ,Mr Parry, for another fine article.
I have to give Mr Trump a “standing ovation” for using this interview, as a vehicle to spell out the catastrophic mess that has been created by our Neocon policy advisers over the last fifteen years.
The devastation in Iraq, Libya and Syria,(to name a few) the millions of innocent people exterminated, the tens of millions left homeless and destitute, and the tragic “cat in the hat” like quality of our forays of” Fraud and Aggression” in the middle east, compounding disaster upon debt with even more odious debt upon every new horrific disaster.
All this reckless carnage abroad, no doubt, proving ” handmaiden” to the reckless carnage at home, of our “constitution”, our” middle class”, our “solvency” and our very Republic, itself ….as well as the ability of big media journalists to ever even engage in the truth of the matter.
It seems that Mr Stephanopoulos, completely oblivious to the immense horrors caused by our Neocon driven policies, and doing everything in his powers as a journalist to” push them under the rug”…has co-opted the Neocon script of trying to put the blame on” Mr Putin”.
Mr Trump, has well served his candidacy, and the american people , by using this platform to pull the curtain back on the Neocons who have nearly destroyed our nation, engorged themselves in the process, and attempted to make Mr Putin the scapegoat for their own pernicious behavior.
Three cheers for “The Donald”.
I mentioned Trump already in another comment here and was astonished that nobody objected to my somehow positive assessment. I was astonished, because a real estate tycoon who hosted 14 seasons of a TV show in which contestants were eliminated (“you are firedâ€), doesn’t appear very sympathetic to me. After reading Robert Parry’s article, I looked again at a video with Donald Trump and again came to the conclusion, that this man stands for everything I dislike.
If I would live in the USA I would see things different. I would be used to inequality, to job insecurity, to cutthroat competition, to intrigue and backstabbing, to lacking healthcare and no social security, to sneaky contracts with repressive arbitration clauses, to tricksters and shady businesses who are after ones last dime, to gagging, ubiquitous surveillance, militarized police, racism (black lives don’t matter), and the daily mass shooting.
If I would live in the USA, I would probably not be scared of a President Donald Trump, after all, he in no way can be worse than Obama, Bush, or Clinton. To be more harmful and ruinous than these three “leaders of the free world†would be an impossible task even for Donald Trump.
I would wholeheartedly support a presidential candidate Cindy Sheehan, or Tulsi Gabbard, or Kshama Sawant, just to name a few of the thousands of intelligent and honorable people in the USA who would make a good president.
They would make a good president but they get no chance to enter the contest, the mass media ignores them, and in the unlikely case that one of them succeeds, there is a good chance that she or he ends like JFK.
Fellow bloggers Michael J. Smith site stopmebeforeivoteagain.org unfortunately is down since a few month, has anybody an idea what became of him?
I see no easy or immediately applicable solution for the fundamental problems of US society, because there is too much aggression and the fundamentals of society are wrong (egoism/individualism, competition, consumerism, urban vanity, exceptionalism). The US citizens are in an arms race with the police, the income gap widens, social services disappear, people are in debt servitude. If the over-leveraged financial markets collapse and the economy goes down the drain, it is likely that Preppers, NRA, Tea Party, various grassroots fascist movements and vigilante groups gain.
I have to voice my respect for everyone, including authors and commentators on this site, who against the odds keeps working for a more humane society and more benevolent and peaceful policies. The discussions and the search for a way out are not in vain, even if the overall impact may be modest and is not measurable at the moment.
Glad you mentioned those three alternatives- Gabbard is one that I am watching- and am very sorry Coleen Rowley didn’t get elected to Congress when she ran.
Americas only salvation is a nationalist.And remember,we have no stolen territory(except the constitution) to regain,like Germany post WW1,so relax on the Hitler crap.
THE POLITICS OF HATE, 2015-16
Robert Parry’s article on the Donald Trump discussion with
an ABC-TV host does not persuade me that Mr. Trump
is an angel. It does persuade me that the “party line”
of the Democratic party is thin.
Imagine! Donald Trump is even “presidential”. (If elected
he intends to represent the US.)
Democrats all have felt almost blessed by the appearance
and popularity of Donald Trump. It is assumed to be a
“gift” to their invariably victorious campaign on the
“first Tuesday after the first Monday in November”, 2016.
On a more profound note, there was an extended
interview with the Prime Minister of Iraq on NPR-radio.
The PM was adamant—and persistent—in requesting more
aid from the US and NO “boots on the ground”.
The interviewer was appalled in the manner of
George Stephanopoulis that the Iraqi PM should
make such a request. What he wanted was
help in stopping the smuggling which supports
ISIS. I am more than certain that the PM was
aware that this would mean ending
the smuggling of oil to our “ally” Turkey as well
as possibly other items such as weapons,
possibly heroin. Of course, it is unlikely that the
US would ever do such a thing. Instead they
rely on the jingoistic and arrogant notions that
with 100,000 (?) combat troops the US can
do whatever it wishes, whenever it wishes.
But the interviewer for NPR was as though
hanging helplessly on the breaking limb of a tree.
The interviewer’s attempts to counter Trump were
nothing if not pathetic.
Of course this interviewer (should one feel pity for her?)
knew little about the brutality of the Iraq War, of the
millions of Iraqi lives lost to US slaughter in Fallujah
and elsewhere. This part of the story was not part of her
(or NPR’s or MSM’s) knowledge-base.
Donald Trump has himself been more than willing
to bask in this kind of patriotism of hate and racial
supremacy.
The NPR interviewer was pathetically overmatched by
the Iraqi PM. One could hear the unanswered
whimpers for help in her voice. She sounded like
someone who has jumped into a lake without any
knowledge of how to swim, knowing only that
her parents were nearby. Someplace.
—Peter Loeb, Boston, MA, USA
Trump is a twit! He will say anything to get people to listen!
Hey Trump baby! You can’t prove anyone did anything without evidence but funny thing is when you have proof against Puti Baby for anything you end up DEAD! Here’s my list I worked on and is still a work in progress with notes! One about being murdered by military pilots is actually a jab at Puti Baby because he arrested a pilot shot down in the Ukraine for killing journalist yet he sets his pilots free! The rest is real!
Murdered by Putin:
1998-Duma Deputy Galina Starovoitova
1999- An apartment building in the Pechatniki neighborhood of Moscow is blown up by a bomb. 94 are killed. Done under Putins orders! It was the key to going into Chechen territory and building his presidency!
2003- co-chairman of the Liberal Russia political party Sergei Yushenkov
2003- Journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin
2003- Mikhail Trepashkin is as good as dead after finding proof against Putin on apartment bombing so he had him thrown in prison.
2003- Yuri Shchekochikhin
2004- Human rights defender Nikolai Girenko. He had evidence of Putin’s racially motivated assaults in his country. By the way there are 143 million living in russia and only 40,000 are black. So I ask you does that country really believe in racial equality?
2004- Paul Klebnikov
2004- Viktor Yushchenko. He survived poisoning by Dioxin.
2006- Andrei Kozlov
2006- Anna Politkovskaya. Human rights author
2006- Alexander Litvinenko killed using radioactive Polonium which is against international law to transport into other countries but Puti had to get rid of his agent.
2006- Daniel McGrory had interviewed Litinenko but was found dead several days before his report was supposed to be aired.
2009- Stanslav Markelov
2009- Natalia Estemirova reporter kidnapped from her home where her 14 year old daughter lived with her.
2009- Sergei Magnitsky Beaten and died 7 days before he was to be let out of prison. Why prison? He was convicted of colluding with Hermitage. Look it up it’s the same in english as russian. He had proof organized crime from police up to you know who!
2009- Natalia Estemirova
2009- Antonio Russo
Russian pilots killed the following two but no charges filed by Puti baby.
2009- Ramzan Mezhidov
2009- Shamil Gigayev
2010- Shamil Aliyev
2010- Said Magomedov
2010- Magomed Sultanmagomedov
2011- Gadzhimurat Kamalov
2012- Alexander Perepilichnyy
2012- Sergei Magnitsky
2014- Timur Kuashev
2015- Boris Nemtsov
2015- Vladimir Kara-Murza Clinging to life after being poisoned 5.26.15. 7.18.15 came out of his coma but still bedridden. Hi father stated “If Putin wanted to scare us he has succeededâ€.
But for the record how many of our soldiers came back home with issues caused by chemical and biological weapons? So far the VA states over 100 and what about the 5,000 chemical weapons that were destroyed up until 2009 when a watchdog group got mad because the military was just burning them in the open. Yep Bush’s admin was cooked and served by Liberals!
The CIA was fascinated by this list you put together. They concluded that if you are correct, Putin is a rank amateur.
Kevin, is it true, that since the end of WWII the U.S. wars have killed 30 million people?
well Joe I know the battle of Stalingrad would not have been a victory for Russia if not for the US entering the war. Hitler pulled half his troops there prior to the battle thinking the US was about to invade. As far as Russian media it is all Government owned now but used to have two medias that were owned by a businessman in Finland. The Moscow Times did report on the deaths of the paratroopers. You know the guys that supposedly made a wrong turn? Well they were captured after two Ukrainian military personnel dropped grenades in their ammunition because they already knew what the Russians were doing to their prisoners. So 10 paratroopers were killed and the rest captured. Then the secret burials began and a local TV crew was attacked outside the grave yard. Then the following day all flowers and markers were taken down. Got to love Puti Baby he doesn’t mark the fallen’s graves! Then the reports from military family members of injured in hospitals came out! With all that Puti Baby forced a new law into place stating if media reported something other than what the governments version was they could be fined and arrested. He had the St. Petersburg Times closed and immediately after Nemstov’s death the editor of the Moscow Times left his position because he was threatened and Puti baby put his new crony in place Nabi Abdullaev! He also had a new law put in place stating all military deaths during peacetime is considered secret! Would you like all the links on what I just stated? I have 38 pages of links I saved that I have read pertaining to the Ukraine military invasion by Puti Baby and even the article from Nemstov’s mother pleading to Puti Baby not to kill her son two weeks before his death!
Just for the fun of it I will give you a taste of what I have saved which you can find online still by using the heading:
Moscow Times:
Paratroopers’ Grave Markings Vanish as Rumors Circulate They Were Killed in Ukraine
Aug. 27 2014 20:15
A day after Russian journalists claimed they were attacked at a Pskov cemetery while investigating reports that paratroopers recently buried there had been killed in Ukraine, the grave markers featuring the troops’ names have been mysteriously removed, Russian media reported.
Wreaths and other decorations marking the spot have also been removed, according to the independent Dozhd television channel. It was unclear who might have removed the markings.
Prior to the apparent gravesite tampering, Russian journalists Vladimir Romensky of Dozhd TV and Ilya Vasyunin of the Russkaya Planeta news site said they were attacked, threatened and told to leave town when they arrived Tuesday at a cemetery in Russia’s Pskov region where at least two of the paratroopers had been buried a day earlier. Other journalists reported similar incidents throughout the day.
The accounts added to the enigma surrounding the circumstances of the paratroopers’ deaths and the broader issue of the extent of Russia’s involvement in Ukraine.
In a fierce war of rhetoric in which few things can be proven as fact, Ukraine claims that the paratroopers were killed in its eastern town of Luhansk after being dispatched there by Moscow to help pro-Russian separatists. Russia denies having lost any troops in Ukraine and dismisses as fake any evidence of paratroopers’ deaths in Luhansk, such as military documents allegedly found at the scene.
It’s fun rubbing the noses of Russians in their own media! :-)
Kevin, you are completely mistaken or deliberately lying. Hitler sent 200 divisions into Soviet terrirory. That’s nearly three million soldiers. Only 200,000 came home. He left 26 divisions in Germany to face 85 divisions of Allied invaders. He didn’t have any soldiers to bring back to face the allies. The Russians lost 27 million total population and 12 million soldiers. It’s a safe bet the Russians are not going to fool around if push comes to shove. But keep dreamin’…it proves you’re a typical delusional American.
Thank you, F.G. Sanford for stating the truth.
In fact, the Red Army had crushed Hitler’s Reich, the Wehrmacht, long before the Allies arrived.
Kevin has to learn lots of history before enlightment will overcome him, if it ever does.
And yes, I am German.
You do realize the US was sending supplies to Russia for Stalingrad and all other areas or is that a figment of imagination too? While I love one of the battle songs “Vy luchshe les rubite na groby – v proryv idut shtrafniye bataliony” Russia couldn’t have done it without the US. From the start of Operation Torch the US used deception to spread the German forces including military bases with no working equipment for German fly overs and you should thank Britain also. Heck Britain supplied half of Russia’s air force and tank divisions. But with US supplies! We supplied delivery of foodstuffs and machine tools to Murmansk and brought in other equipment by sea including fuels! Soviet pilots were flying US made AeroCobras from Alaska to the Western Front. Plus you can still find pictures on the internet of russian soldiers driving Jeeps and Studebaker trucks! Well you can also still see them at the national museum in Moscow. hahaha By the way the T-34’s Russia built by using US Iron and steel in the first and second stages in part of a US devised program running up to the battle of Stalingran! The very best thing the US could do for Russia at the start of WWII was the lend lease program for equipment.
Hitler didn’t want to start a war with the US but after Pearl Harbor they had no alternative and followed Japan on December 11. Hummm Suddenly instead of worrying about Russia he has to worry about expanding another front against Britain and allies! If not for US involvement Hitler could have used less than 15 divisions because of logistics issues with allies. Oops that’s right they started using our ships! Basically the allied forces were in total disarray including Russia. Strange in all books we always say allied forces and russia. :-)
One thing I’ve always believed is it took all the allies to beat two small countries simply because they had become complacent and Japan along with Hitler believed in a quick response military. Neighbors who weren’t expecting neighbors to attack but they did! Will say we did learn one thing in WWII and that is protect Poland from it’s enemies as we would protect Israel!
I’m afraid that’s just silly – Hitler could easily have dodged declaring war on the US, but he did it anyhow.
Regarding Lend-Lease, at the time of Stalingrad the US was struggling to produce weapons for itself, and had precious little to spare for anybody else. I don’t have a list of the things the US sent to Russia, but raw iron and steel almost certainly weren’t on that list. The Russians mostly needed finished goods of high quality, and eventually they got those goods.
You’re on the right general track with many of your statements, but you also definitely need to read up on WW2 in more detailed and reliable texts. In fact, your remarks about Lend Lease have inspired me to do the same on that specific issue. I’ve got to locate better information than the second and third-hand sources I have now.
Kevin, I read your piece from the Moscow Times. There wasn’t much in the article about Putin, except how he was said to have said that these paratroopers may have accidentally roamed into that area, of Pskov. The Moscow Times is to Putin, what FOX is to Obama. Plus, all of the at the scene commenters mentioned in this article are Kiev Ukrainians. This isn’t saying much about fair and balanced reporting, coming from your sourced reference. After, you answer my question about the 30 million deaths that were the result of American adventurism, maybe we could discuss the values of our allies, say Saudi Arabia, or maybe Israel. Oh, and let us not forget our special friend,Turkey. I hear these trusted allies of ours, treat journalists with special loving care. Is that correct?
The reason why there wasn’t an answer to the 30 million Joe is it wasn’t worth even a keystroke! By the way the answer is NO! I find it funny your answer that there wasn’t much on Putin in the article especially when Putin admitted last week there were Russian Troops in the Ukraine after all! Of course he said specialist which again what is a paratrooper but nothing other than a specialist. By the way if you did read it you will aslo see the name of the TV station that made the report and it has never been mentioned by Puti Baby as Puti’s Fox (Russian journalists Vladimir Romensky of Dozhd TV)! Keep digging your hole it will just get deeper!
Here is a more in depth report that is actually 4 pages long about military families! Let me know if you want more!
THE ST. PETERSBURG TIMES
Headline
FAMILIES OF RUSSIAN TROOPS IN UKRAINE WANT ANSWERS
Page 1 of 4
MOSCOW — The last time Valeria Sokolova saw her husband, the 25-year-old paratrooper told her that he and his fellow soldiers were heading for military exercises in southern Russia, near the Ukrainian border.
“He was vague in a way that was very unusual, and it was hard for all of them to say goodbye,” Sokolova told The Associated Press, recounting their conversation from earlier this month.
On Monday, 10 men from his division were captured in eastern Ukraine amid fighting between pro-Moscow separatists and Ukrainian troops. At least two others from the division were killed and an unspecified number were wounded.
Sokolova, the mother of a 6-year-old boy, does not know the fate of her husband, and she said Russian military officials have released no information about the servicemen. She fears for his safety.
Similar questions are being raised by families of other Russian servicemen about unexplained deaths and missing or captured soldiers who are said to be on military exercises. The answers could undermine public support for President Vladimir Putin and his policies in Ukraine.
Kevin, going back and forth with you on this subject is an enlightening task, I will give you that. It’s also refreshing in some kind of weird diverse way, but if I come back at you anymore, You and I will be on this comment board until the cows come home.
I have always thought of how the U.S. and Russia together would be a good thing. Like, when Putin allowed the U.S. to fly into Afghanistan, and how the Russians shared intelligence with the United States, was a good thing.
If we are going to make fun of Putin, being a KGB agent, then what does this say about 41?
We could go after these topics you have brought up all day long, and then after that, we could solve the JFK assassination. What I don’t like about bashing people such as Putin, is America needs sensible allies, and I seem to see that sensibility in Putin. Although, I know you probably won’t agree with me, I’ll bet you don’t want a WWIII. I hope you continue to post on consortiumnews, because in a strange way I have enjoyed corresponding with you. Stay well, and I’ll see you down the road.
Sorry but I’m trying to be short and sweet on answers about WWII because we already have so many history books but many recently written for schools are starting to leave many things out! Heck I’m 60 and history books are starting to get things wrong that happened while I was alive! If you read up on our production of coal and ore alone the US did more than triple the amount of Russia and Britain alone. True we had a tough time building our own but it was because we were supplying others at the same time. Enough said about WWII and I agree!
There had been giant steps since Reagan even including fly overs by Russia and US over each others territories to keep an eye on each others nukes. You are correct Russia did agree to let the US fly into Afghanistan too! But Puti Baby started going over the edge as far as being a friendly counterpart! First Crimea then as i noted Ukraine! He also started using the flights over the US to do more than film our nukes so we had no alternative but to dissolve the fly over treaty. Sorry but you don’t film our infrastructure especially on our bases! That’s just a few small details but the list is as long as my arm on situations Puti has created. My preference is to work together also but when you have someone doing things that is a prelude to a war you have to stop working with them. Have a great week!
Kevin, nice to hear back from you. You should jump in on some other articles with your comments. We need someone to piss us off sometimes…just kidding. I just wish the world would learn to talk to each other, instead of pulling out the guns first. People die in these diplomatic collisions. Whatever may be said about Putin, could be brought up over any other world leader, we have to ponder over. They all seem to have skeletons in their closet. My attention is on the Russian people, and dealing with all these dangerous issues of state, hopefully with each other finding a decent peaceful solution. Okay, maybe I’m a dreamer, but that’s what listening to John Lennon will get you. Have a good holiday Kevin, and by all means continue with your comments. Maybe we will all open our eyes a little better in the coming year!
Show me the proof.
How about Po-210 and refusal of extradition in the case where Alexander Litvinenko was murdered! Not to worry just a normal event for Puti Baby! Let me guess as a fake Trump you refuse to believe Moldova hasn’t captured persons selling nuclear material with the help of the FBI four different times since 2010! Keep your eyes closed that’s the best way to do business!
Trump didn’t back off, or wilt under pressure, and that is what made his interview with Stephanopoulos turn out the way it did. There, was George with his anti-Putin talking points, and then there was ‘the Donald’ with his typical shtick, saying what silenced viewers think all the time, while listening to people such as Stephanopoulos. Trump, right or wrong, says what many, maybe even most people think. The sad fact, is this American obsession of discrediting everything Russian, is not going to lead to anything worth bragging about. What is really needed, is for America to align itself with Russia, and China, but with people like Stephanopoulos in charge, this type of alignment is off the table. This whole presidential race, is just one big show to aire on our broadcasting networks. So, as far as the TV honchos go, screw little George, ‘the Trumpster’ causes media excitement, and media excitement sells commercial time. Now, who do you think won the Sunday morning gab fest?
The weightiest thing about George S. is his long surname.
Brilliant, necessary column.
Opinion time – I view Trump as a spoiled rich punk and an ignormus to boot. That said, I also see himj as the best of a very, very bad bunch of candidates contending for the Presidency. Hillary is simply a disaster in all ways. Foreign warmonger, and neoliberal on domestic issues. Sanders is ok on domestic issues, but IMO he’s a perfect match for Hillary on the neocon warmongering for Israel.
The Republicans (excepting Trump) are worse than Hillary on all counts. Most are screaming for a war with China and/or Russia.
So for me it comes down to the ignorant bloward with Fascist tendencies. Will he be the one on the “R” ballot next November? He is the ONLY candidate who isn’t totally in bed with Israel. And that shitty little apartheid nation is already making plans for what it’ll do if Syria isn’t dismembered.
http://www.investigativeproject.org/5097/to-strike-or-not-to-strike-that-is-the-question
The planned carpet-bombing of Lebanon (and probable land grab) is going to require a friendly POTUS in the White House. One who will not only overlook the massive slaughter, but who might possibly actively assist in the operation. I sincerely hope Trump spends a lot of his own money for protection, for the Secret Service has had entirely too many ‘incidents’ in recent years to be considered in any way reliable.
A friendly U.S. president for Israel? Is there any other kind?
Also, I call him George Schleppin-poop-alot.
What is a conspiracy theory?
Well, first we need to define a hypothesis. A hypothesis is a proposed mechanism by which an otherwise unexplainable phenomenon might occur. Funk and Wagnall’s mentions, “A hypothesis is a statement of what is deemed possibly true, assumed and reasoned upon as if certainly true, with a view of reaching truth not yet surely known; especially, in the sciences, a hypothesis is a comprehensive tentative explanation of certain phenomena, which is meant to include all other facts of the same class, and which is assumed as true till there has been opportunity to bring all related facts into comparison;â€
If the hypothesis successfully explains the facts, it is regarded as “verifiedâ€. It then becomes a “working hypothesisâ€, and in scientific circles, it may be “tested†by repeated experiments. After an arbitrary length of time has passed and multiple researchers have repeatedly tested the hypothesis without ever proving that it is wrong, it becomes a “theoryâ€. A theory is a hypothesis which has never been proven “wrongâ€.
Since in many cases, “all other facts of the same class†have been arbitrarily withheld by government agencies, it is impossible to determine whether or not we are dealing with hypothetical or theoretical situations. In any case, the “official†position of the U.S. Government is that Kennedy was assassinated by a conspiracy of individuals and not by a “lone gunman†per the House Select Committee on Assassinationsâ€. A court case also found that Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated by a conspiracy involving Federal and State agencies. Yes, that’s actually true.
Nevertheless, corporate controlled media exemplified by O’Reilly at FOX and Matthews at MSNBC continue to propound the lone gunman hypothesis. A “theory†constitutes a hypothesis which has never been successfully discredited. The next step after a “theory†is a “natural lawâ€.
Therefore, people who criticize honest debate by employing the “conspiracy theory†accusation are actually admitting that “conspiracy†is a valid hypothesis. This comment will probably get me the “awaiting moderation†purgatory award.
Any story that isn’t identical to government propaganda is a “conspiracy theory”, anyone who believes one wears a tinfoil hat, and 33 conspiracy theories that turned out to be true is just synchronicity or a statistical error. #sarc
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/09/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true-2469608.html
Go ask the Graun,they know.
There is only one conspiracy today;Neocapitalist Zion.
Good article but it doesn’t mention the likely reason Trump has never seen any proof. I doubt he has ever heard of Beketov or Poltikovskaya or any of the many other cases that were extensively covered in the news. You should also mention that it is highly likely that no amount of proof would ever be enough to make Trump accept it. Look at every ridiculous claim he has made and his absolute refusal to ever retract any statement and you can understand the futility of showing proof to Trump.
If you have information on who killed Beketov, please reveal it. As far as I know he was killed by an unknown assailant after having accused Vladimir Strelchenko, then the mayor of Khimki, of nepotism and corruption. Beketov received threats after that, but there is no evidence that Putin arranged his murder. Why would he?
Who are the other journalists’ deaths you are referring to?
I think Stephanopoulos is the one who will never believe that our country is killing thousands of people!
I didn’t mean to say Putin directly killed anyone. My point is that given his trouble with facts, Trump would likely have no clue about specific reporters (until the next day after he researched it a bit to give himself and out).
But do keep in mind the spirit of the claim; Russia is in fact listed by several groups as one of the most dangerous countries for reporters. The Washington Post suggested this point of view on the matter: “There is indeed no proof Putin has journalists killed. But he presides over a regime in which journalists are beaten, harassed and murdered, often with impunity.”
I think you’re referring to Turkey, not Russia. In the case of Russia, again it’s just unproven allegations.
You forgot to include Ukraine- and not just the assassination of journalists who are Russian, but also of others trying to report fairly about the crisis in that country.
He who controls media needs no stinkin’ proof.
Just spread allegations, like pillow feathers from the top of a skyscraper and then let the target collect them feathers back.
Turkey is bad and has gotten worse but Russia also has problems. Obviously one would need to trust some source of information or this is pointless. Of course absolute proof of anything inside Russia would be quite difficult to get. Here is a map (which I’m sure won’t be believed either but…):
http://www.businessinsider.com/freedom-of-the-press-worldwide-2014-2
Turkey would be a different color today no doubt.
It was the US that recently gave soldiers the green light to kill embedded reporters. http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/06/pentagon-rewrites-law-of-war-journalists/
You have a typical American bias against Russia: you think Russia is mafia-gangsterland where reporters are regularly killed by Putin, and that America is much better. What about the suspicious suicide of Gary Webb? If the CIA didn’t outright kill him, they certainly did their best with their assets in the MSM to destroy his career because he outed their drug smuggling to fund the Contras. But more broadly, the constant demonization of all things Russia is really out of control, and your comment has this condescention: it is next to impossible for an American to objectively look at Russia and see anything good about the country. There is so much pressure from the media and the government to condition Americans to HATE Russia. “Commie bastard” is the epithet one is greeted with if you think public schools, public roads, social security, welfare programs are good ideas. Socialism is a very bad word for Americans, but not the rest of the world. Scandinavians, Germans have high quality university available for all at a fraction of the cost of our “free market” university eduction which leaves students saddled with $20,000-$75,000 student debt. America sucks! Most overrated country on Earth.
I learned about Russia in my youthful studies of comparative economic systems. Peter the great traveled to England and decided shaving was the reason England was ahead. He put a $15 tax on beards upon returning home.
Nowadays we know that lack of facial hair makes men yearn for global warming. Putin shaves. Therefore them pesky Russians support global warming.
As for student (or parent) debt, how about an amount exceeding 200k, which with interest (and with or without necessary deferral or grace periods) could reach $1m. Student debt survives bankruptcy and death. A diploma seems to be a necessary ticket, but with the all too prevalent brainwashing and absence of critical thinking (even- or especially- in the elite universities) and debt that come with it, its value is easily questioned.
A dentist told me a couple of years ago that it is common for dentists to hold a debt of $400-500K on graduation.
Don’t feel sorry for dentists.Possibly the worlds most overpaid,they’ll make up the difference quick.
In a world of neocapitalism,bang for the buck is paramount.
Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City, 911, drone strikes on wedding parties, Boston Marathon, Sandy Hook; you do realize that foreigners say that “no amount of proof would ever be enough” to make brain-dead Americans realize their government makes Nazis look good. Just sayin………..
There is absolutely no proof,other than Zionist ravings(the crazies of modern times,bar none),that Putin personally directed people to kill journalists.
Dorothy Kilgallen, Danny Casolaro, Gary Webb, Phil Marshall…gee whiz, those accidental suicides only ever seem to happen to journalists working on stories about the “deep state”. Those coincidence theorists certainly have fertile imaginations!
What about the exploding Mercedes of Michael Hastings? My first thought was that the wife or the family should sue the Mercedes-Benz Co., which supposedly manufactures the safest cars in the world, but instead a car of theirs hits a tree and explodes. This would not have happen even with Kia Sedona.
I think, since we’re free as private citizens to speculate & “opinionate”; that we should speculate about the possibility that any possible murders at Putin’s direction were probably aimed at “Deep State” agents; that Putin has had considerably more success at wresting away control of the Russian Federation from his “Deep State” Oligarchs; that the only thing that is “Globalized” in globalization IS the “Deep State”; that Rabin represents Israel’s “JFK moment” where it passed firmly into “Deep State” control, that Turkey has exactly the same “Deep State” crisis as USA, Russia, Israel, and actually all members of the U.N.; that Putin would be a most valuable ALLY to us, in pushing back against the “Deep State Putsch” going on around the World; that such a powerful alliance between USA and an obviously better-informed Russia might be just the “checkmate” we’re looking for, against the “Deep State” Putsch. Such detective-like speculation would produce more useful fruit, than whether-or-not “he did it” or “we did it”… and so on.
Brad Owen, I feel like we’ve been meeting and agreeing, well done…and thanks.
Nice one Bob.
Incredible how big the sell out is inside the beltway. George was fighting these types of techniques. Now he is a part of them.