Obama Should Release Ukraine Evidence

With the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine turning a local civil war into a U.S. confrontation with Russia, U.S. intelligence veterans urge President Obama to release what evidence he has about the tragedy and silence the hyperbole.


FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

SUBJECT: Intelligence on Shoot-Down of Malaysian Plane

Executive Summary

U.S.Russian tensions are building in a precarious way over Ukraine, and we are far from certain that your advisers fully appreciate the danger of escalation. The New York Times and other media outlets are treating sensitive issues in dispute as flat-fact, taking their cue from U.S. government sources.

Twelve days after the shoot-down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, your administration still has issued no coordinated intelligence assessment summarizing what evidence exists to determine who was responsible much less to convincingly support repeated claims that the plane was downed by a Russian-supplied missile in the hands of Ukrainian separatists.

Secretary of State John Kerry addresses reporters on July 23, 2014, in Ramallah, West Bank. (U.S. government photo)

Secretary of State John Kerry addresses reporters on July 23, 2014, in Ramallah, West Bank. (U.S. government photo)

Your administration has not provided any satellite imagery showing that the separatists had such weaponry, and there are several other “dogs that have not barked.” Washington’s credibility, and your own, will continue to erode, should you be unwilling or unable to present more tangible evidence behind administration claims. In what follows, we put this in the perspective of former intelligence professionals with a cumulative total of 260 years in various parts of U.S. intelligence.

We, the undersigned former intelligence officers want to share with you our concern about the evidence adduced so far to blame Russia for the July 17 downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17. We are retired from government service and none of us is on the payroll of CNN, Fox News, or any other outlet. We intend this memorandum to provide a fresh, different perspective.

As veteran intelligence analysts accustomed to waiting, except in emergency circumstances, for conclusive information before rushing to judgment, we believe that the charges against Russia should be rooted in solid, far more convincing evidence. And that goes in spades with respect to inflammatory incidents like the shoot-down of an airliner. We are also troubled by the amateurish manner in which fuzzy and flimsy evidence has been served up some of it via “social media.”

As intelligence professionals we are embarrassed by the unprofessional use of partial intelligence information. As Americans, we find ourselves hoping that, if you indeed have more conclusive evidence, you will find a way to make it public without further delay. In charging Russia with being directly or indirectly responsible, Secretary of State John Kerry has been particularly definitive. Not so the evidence. His statements seem premature and bear earmarks of an attempt to “poison the jury pool.”

Painting Russia Black

We see an eerie resemblance to an earlier exercise in U.S. “public diplomacy” from which valuable lessons can be learned by those more interested in the truth than in exploiting tragic incidents for propaganda advantage. We refer to the behavior of the Reagan administration in the immediate aftermath of the shoot-down of Korean Airlines Flight 007 over Siberia on August 30, 1983. We sketch out below a short summary of that tragic affair, since we suspect you have not been adequately briefed on it. The parallels will be obvious to you.

An advantage of our long tenure as intelligence officers is that we remember what we have witnessed first hand; seldom do we forget key events in which we played an analyst or other role. To put it another way, most of us “know exactly where we were” when a Soviet fighter aircraft shot down Korean Airlines passenger flight 007 over Siberia on August 30, 1983, over 30 years ago. At the time, we were intelligence officers on “active duty.” You were 21; many of those around you today were still younger.

Thus, it seems possible that you may be learning how the KAL007 affair went down, so to speak, for the first time; that you may now become more aware of the serious implications for U.S.-Russian relations regarding how the downing of Flight 17 goes down; and that you will come to see merit in preventing ties with Moscow from falling into a state of complete disrepair. In our view, the strategic danger here dwarfs all other considerations.

Hours after the tragic shoot-down on August 30, 1983, the Reagan administration used its very accomplished propaganda machine to twist the available intelligence on Soviet culpability for the killing of all 269 people aboard KAL007. The airliner was shot down after it strayed hundreds of miles off course and penetrated Russia’s airspace over sensitive military facilities in Kamchatka and Sakhalin Island. The Soviet pilot tried to signal the plane to land, but the KAL pilots did not respond to the repeated warnings. Amid confusion about the plane’s identity a U.S. spy plane had been in the vicinity hours earlier Soviet ground control ordered the pilot to fire.

The Soviets soon realized they had made a horrendous mistake. U.S. intelligence also knew from sensitive intercepts that the tragedy had resulted from a blunder, not from a willful act of murder (much as on July 3, 1988, the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian civilian airliner over the Persian Gulf, killing 290 people, an act which President Ronald Reagan dismissively explained as an “understandable accident”).

To make the very blackest case against Moscow for shooting down the KAL airliner, the Reagan administration suppressed exculpatory evidence from U.S. electronic intercepts. Washington’s mantra became “Moscow’s deliberate downing of a civilian passenger plane.” Newsweek ran a cover emblazoned with the headline “Murder in the Sky.” (Apparently, not much has changed; Time’s cover this week features “Cold War II” and “Putin’s dangerous game.” The cover story by Simon Shuster, “In Russia, Crime Without Punishment,” would merit an A-plus in William Randolph Hearst’s course “Yellow Journalism 101.”)

When KAL007 was shot down, Alvin A. Snyder, director of the U.S. Information Agency’s television and film division, was enlisted in a concerted effort to “heap as much abuse on the Soviet Union as possible,” as Snyder writes in his 1995 book, “Warriors of Disinformation.”

He and his colleagues also earned an A-plus for bringing the “mainstream media” along. For example, ABC’s Ted Koppel noted with patriotic pride, “This has been one of those occasions when there is very little difference between what is churned out by the U.S. government propaganda organs and by the commercial broadcasting networks.”

“Fixing” the Intelligence Around the Policy

“The perception we wanted to convey was that the Soviet Union had cold-bloodedly carried out a barbaric act,” wrote Snyder, adding that the Reagan administration went so far as to present a doctored transcript of the intercepts to the United Nations Security Council on September 6, 1983.

Only a decade later, when Snyder saw the complete transcripts, including the portions that the Reagan administration had hidden, would he fully realize how many of the central elements of the U.S. presentation were false.

The intercepts showed that the Soviet fighter pilot believed he was pursuing a U.S. spy aircraft and that he was having trouble in the dark identifying the plane. Per instructions from ground control, the pilot had circled the KAL airliner and tilted his wings to order the aircraft to land. The pilot said he fired warning shots, as well. This information “was not on the tape we were provided,” Snyder wrote.

It became abundantly clear to Snyder that, in smearing the Soviets, the Reagan administration had presented false accusations to the United Nations, as well as to the people of the United States and the world. In his book, Snyder acknowledged his own role in the deception, but drew a cynical conclusion. He wrote, “The moral of the story is that all governments, including our own, lie when it suits their purposes. The key is to lie first.”

The tortured attempts by your administration and stenographers in the media to blame Russia for the downing of Flight 17, together with John Kerry’s unenviable record for credibility, lead us to the reluctant conclusion that the syndrome Snyder describes may also be at work in your own administration; that is, that an ethos of “getting your own lie out first” has replaced “ye shall know the truth.” At a minimum, we believe Secretary Kerry displayed unseemly haste in his determination to be first out of the starting gate.

Both Sides Cannot Be Telling the Truth

We have always taken pride in not shooting from the hip, but rather in doing intelligence analysis that is evidence-based. The evidence released to date does not bear close scrutiny; it does not permit a judgment as to which side is lying about the shoot-down of Flight 17. Our entire professional experience would incline us to suspect the Russians almost instinctively. Our more recent experience, particularly observing Secretary Kerry injudiciousness in latching onto one spurious report after another as “evidence,” has gone a long way toward balancing our earlier predispositions.

It seems that whenever Kerry does cite supposed “evidence” that can be checked like the forged anti-Semitic fliers distributed in eastern Ukraine or the photos of alleged Russian special forces soldiers who allegedly slipped into Ukraine the “proof” goes “poof” as Kerry once said in a different context. Still, these misrepresentations seem small peccadillos compared with bigger whoppers like the claim Kerry made on August 30, 2013, no fewer than 35 times, that “we know” the government of Bashar al-Assad was responsible for the chemical incidents near Damascus nine days before.

On September 3, 2013 following your decision to call off the attack on Syria in order to await Congressional authorization Kerry was still pushing for an attack in testimony before a thoroughly sympathetic Senate Foreign Affairs Committee. On the following day Kerry drew highly unusual personal criticism from President Putin, who said: “He is lying, and he knows he is lying. It is sad.”

Equally serious, during the first week of September 2013, as you and President Vladimir Putin were putting the final touches to the deal whereby Syrian chemical weapons would be given up for destruction, John Kerry said something that puzzles us to this day. On September 9, 2013, Kerry was in London, still promoting a U.S. attack on Syria for having crossed the “Red Line” you had set against Syria’s using chemical weapons.

At a formal press conference, Kerry abruptly dismissed the possibility that Bashar al-Assad would ever give up his chemical weapons, saying, “He isn’t about to do that; it can’t be done.” Just a few hours later, the Russians and Syrians announced Syria’s agreement to do precisely what Kerry had ruled out as impossible. You sent him back to Geneva to sign the agreement, and it was formally concluded on September 14.

Regarding the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down of July 17, we believe Kerry has typically rushed to judgment and that his incredible record for credibility poses a huge disadvantage in the diplomatic and propaganda maneuvering vis-a-vis Russia. We suggest you call a halt to this misbegotten “public diplomacy” offensive. If, however, you decide to press on anyway, we suggest you try to find a less tarnished statesman or woman.

A Choice Between Two

If the intelligence on the shoot-down is as weak as it appears judging from the fuzzy scraps that have been released, we strongly suggest you call off the propaganda war and await the findings of those charged with investigating the shoot-down. If, on the other hand, your administration has more concrete, probative intelligence, we strongly suggest that you consider approving it for release, even if there may be some risk of damage to “sources and methods.” Too often this consideration is used to prevent information from entering the public domain where, as in this case, it belongs.

There have been critical junctures in the past in which presidents have recognized the need to waive secrecy in order to show what one might call “a decent respect for the opinions of mankind” or even to justify military action.

As senior CIA veteran Milton Bearden has put it, there are occasions when more damage is done to U.S. national security by “protecting” sources and methods than by revealing them. For instance, Bearden noted that Ronald Reagan exposed a sensitive intelligence source in showing a skeptical world the reason for the U.S. attack on Libya in retaliation for the April 5, 1986 bombing at the La Belle Disco in West Berlin. That bombing killed two U.S. servicemen and a Turkish woman, and injured over 200 people, including 79 U.S. servicemen.

Intercepted messages between Tripoli and agents in Europe made it clear that Libya was behind the attack. Here’s an excerpt: “At 1:30 in the morning one of the acts was carried out with success, without leaving a trace behind.”

Ten days after the bombing the U.S. retaliated, sending over 60 Air Force fighters to strike the Libyan capital of Tripoli and the city of Benghazi. The operation was widely seen as an attempt to kill Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, who survived, but his adopted 15-month-old daughter was killed in the bombing, along with at least 15 other civilians.

Three decades ago, there was more shame attached to the killing of children. As world abhorrence grew after the U.S. bombing strikes, the Reagan administration produced the intercepted, decoded message sent by the Libyan Peoples Bureau in East Berlin acknowledging the “success” of the attack on the disco, and adding the ironically inaccurate boast “without leaving a trace behind.”

The Reagan administration made the decision to give up a highly sensitive intelligence source, its ability to intercept and decipher Libyan communications. But once the rest of the world absorbed this evidence, international grumbling subsided and many considered the retaliation against Tripoli justified.

If You’ve Got the Goods…

If the U.S. has more convincing evidence than what has so far been adduced concerning responsibility for shooting down Flight 17, we believe it would be best to find a way to make that intelligence public even at the risk of compromising “sources and methods.” Moreover, we suggest you instruct your subordinates not to cheapen U.S. credibility by releasing key information via social media like Twitter and Facebook.

The reputation of the messenger for credibility is also key in this area of “public diplomacy.” As is by now clear to you, in our view Secretary Kerry is more liability than asset in this regard. Similarly, with regard to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, his March 12, 2013 Congressional testimony under oath to what he later admitted were “clearly erroneous” things regarding NSA collection should disqualify him. Clapper should be kept at far remove from the Flight 17 affair.

What is needed, if you’ve got the goods, is an Interagency Intelligence Assessment the genre used in the past to lay out the intelligence. We are hearing indirectly from some of our former colleagues that what Secretary Kerry is peddling does not square with the real intelligence. Such was the case late last August, when Kerry created a unique vehicle he called a “Government (not Intelligence) Assessment” blaming, with no verifiable evidence, Bashar al-Assad for the chemical attacks near Damascus, as honest intelligence analysts refused to go along and, instead, held their noses.

We believe you need to seek out honest intelligence analysts now and hear them out. Then, you may be persuaded to take steps to curb the risk that relations with Russia might escalate from “Cold War II” into an armed confrontation. In all candor, we see little reason to believe that Secretary Kerry and your other advisers appreciate the enormity of that danger.

In our most recent (May 4) memorandum to you, Mr. President, we cautioned that if the U.S. wished “to stop a bloody civil war between east and west Ukraine and avert Russian military intervention in eastern Ukraine, you may be able to do so before the violence hurtles completely out of control.” On July 18, you joined the top leaders of Germany, France, and Russia in calling for an immediate ceasefire. Most informed observers believe you have it in your power to get Ukrainian leaders to agree. The longer Kiev continues its offensive against separatists in eastern Ukraine, the more such U.S. statements appear hypocritical.

We reiterate our recommendations of May 4, that you remove the seeds of this confrontation by publicly disavowing any wish to incorporate Ukraine into NATO and that you make it clear that you are prepared to meet personally with Russian President Putin without delay to discuss ways to defuse the crisis and recognize the legitimate interests of the various parties. The suggestion of an early summit got extraordinary resonance in controlled and independent Russian media. Not so in “mainstream” media in the U.S. Nor did we hear back from you.

The courtesy of a reply is requested.

Prepared by VIPS Steering Group

William Binney, former Technical Director, World Geopolitical & Military Analysis, NSA; co-founder, SIGINT Automation Research Center (ret.)

Larry Johnson, CIA & State Department (ret.)

Edward Loomis, NSA, Cryptologic Computer Scientist (ret.)

David MacMichael, National Intelligence Council (ret.)

Ray McGovern, former US Army infantry/intelligence officer & CIA analyst (ret.)

Elizabeth Murray, Deputy National Intelligence Officer for Middle East (ret.)

Todd E. Pierce, MAJ, US Army Judge Advocate (Ret.)

Coleen Rowley, Division Counsel & Special Agent, FBI (ret.)

Peter Van Buren, U.S. Department of State, Foreign Service Officer (ret.)

Ann Wright, Col., US Army (ret.); Foreign Service Officer (resigned)

58 comments for “Obama Should Release Ukraine Evidence

  1. Malooga
    August 4, 2014 at 23:32

    I certainly agree with the main premise of this article warning President Obama against US actions with Russia. It is surprising that you do not mention the quite substantial risk of nuclear Armageddon, even if accidental — perhaps the single most frightening part of this entire affair.

    And it’s clear that we always run the risk of the facts being fixed around the policy, as they historically have been.

    But, it’s odd that you would use the case of KAL007 as an example, since there is a sizable percentage of people who neither believe that the aircraft “strayed” accidentally, nor that the shootdown was accidental, as you have described. Were the intercepts ever released and confirmed by the Soviet Union, thus proving your case?

    Secondly, even more odd is that you should use the example of the bombing at the La Belle Disco in West Berlin, where you state:

    “Intercepted messages between Tripoli and agents in Europe made it clear that Libya was behind the attack. Here’s an excerpt: ‘At 1:30 in the morning one of the acts was carried out with success, without leaving a trace behind.'”

    That intercept is both too vague to prove anything, and yet too incriminating for Libya to have broadcast if they were actually involved — and certainly not their style. From a Cui Bono standpoint, Libya’s involvement made, and still makes, no sense.

    More to the point, are two pieces of information which directly contradict your assertions about the validity of the intercept — information which points to both the bombing and the intercept being the work of the Mossad.

    First, Victor Ostrovsky, the ex-Mossad agent and author of the Mossad exposé “By Way of Deception,” which the Israeli government sought to ban publication of, claimed that the Mossad was responsible for the intercept. According to Richard Curtiss, in a 2001 piece on Media Monitors:

    The manner in which Israel’s Mossad tricked the U.S. into attacking Libya was described in detail by former Mossad case worker Victor Ostrovsky in The Other Side of Deception, the second of two revealing books he wrote after he left Israel’s foreign intelligence service. The story began in February 1986, when Israel sent a team of navy commandos in miniature submarines into Tripoli to land and install a “Trojan,” a six-foot-long communications device, in the top floor of a five-story apartment building. The device, only seven inches in diameter, was capable of receiving messages broadcast by Mossad’s LAP (LohAma Psicologit—psychological warfare or disinformation section) on one frequency and automatically relaying the broadcasts on a different frequency used by the Libyan government.

    The commandos activated the Trojan and left it in the care of a lone Mossad agent in Tripoli who had leased the apartment and who had met them at the beach in a rented van.“By the end of March, the Americans were already intercepting messages broadcast by the Trojan,” Ostrovsky writes.

    “Using the Trojan, the Mossad tried to make it appear that a long series of terrorist orders were being transmitted to various Libyan embassies around the world,” Ostrovsky continues. As the Mossad had hoped, the transmissions were deciphered by the Americans and construed as ample proof that the Libyans were active sponsors of terrorism. What’s more, the Americans pointed out, Mossad reports confirmed it.

    “The French and the Spanish, though, were not buying into the new stream of information. To them it seemed suspicious that suddenly, out of the blue, the Libyans, who had been extremely careful in the past, would start advertising their future actions… The French and the Spanish were right. The information was bogus.”

    Ostrovsky, who is careful in what he writes, does not blame Mossad for the bombing, only a couple of weeks after the Trojan was installed, of La Belle Discothèque in West Berlin, which cost the lives of two American soldiers and a Turkish woman. But he convincingly documents the elaborate Mossad operation built around the Trojan, which led the U.S. to blame Libya for the bombing of the Berlin nightclub frequented by U.S. soldiers. The plot was given added credibility since it took place at a time when Qaddafi had “closed” the airspace over the Gulf of Sidra to U.S. aircraft, and then suffered the loss of two Libyan aircraft trying to enforce the ban, which were shot down by carrier-based U.S. planes

    This information is reiterated by Robin Ramsay in Lobster #60, Winter 2010, p. 118, who clearly feels that the claims are more than credible.

    Second, an article from the WSWS website from August of 1998, summarizes a German TV documentary broadcast of the program “Frontal” which arrives at the following conclusions:

    1) The lead defendant presently on trial, Yasser Chraidi, is very possibly innocent, and is being used as a scapegoat by German and American intelligence services.
    2) At least one of the defendants, Musbah Eter, has been working for the CIA over many years.
    3) Some of the key suspects have not appeared in court, because they are being protected by Western intelligence services.
    4) At least one of those, Mohammed Amairi, is an agent of Mossad, the Israeli secret service.

    Information for this report was corroborated by both the East German and Russian secret services.

    The report concludes with this timely admonition:

    “These secret service intrigues present a task for the Berlin court that is almost insoluble,” concludes the Frontal report. “But one thing is certain, the American legend of Libyan state terrorism can no longer be maintained.”

    There are striking parallels between the 1986 bombing of Libya and last week’s missile strikes against targets in Sudan and Afghanistan. Once again Washington claims to have “proof” to justify its use of deadly force. But as the Frontal report shows, such claims cannot be trusted. Twelve years after the bombing of Libya, Reagan’s proof turns out to be anything but irrefutable. Instead there is powerful evidence that the La Belle attack was a carefully prepared provocation.

    There appears to be a pattern of Israel’s Mossad supplying bogus intercepted communications to the US and Europe, as evidenced by the spurious communications intercept appearing to implicate Assad in the use of chemical weapons, later disproven.

    Which leaves us with several questions: Was the CIA tricked, even though French and Spanish intelligence wasn’t? Did the CIA know that Libyan “responsibility” was faked, and not tell the President? Or, did Reagan actually know that he was presenting faked evidence to the world? Or did the U.S. government not know that the evidence was fake, and that it was Israel alone who was responsible for this horror?

    In light of US intelligence expenditures approximately equaling the rest of the world put together, either of these three possibilities are fairly disconcerting.

    In a 2008 Truthout article, Milton Bearden states, “Washington was willing to give up a sensitive intelligence method – its ability to break the Libyan codes. But once the rest of the world absorbed this, international grumbling subsided and many considered the retaliation against Tripoli justified,” almost word for word what you argue.

    The question is — how do those nations who “grumbled” now feel knowing that they were lied into a grudging consent? Where exactly is US credibility on the international stage — with other countries seeing this as only one of many instances of the US lying to get what it wants at the expense of the rest of the world?

    Which begs the point, how could it be possible that that the esteemed VIPS Steering Group, including one member who prepared the President’s Daily Brief during this period of time, as well as senior CIA veteran Milton Bearden, not know that this sensitive intelligence source, which you claim the President waived secrecy and boldly revealed, was false? And how does the President revealing information which other governments know is false show what you call “a decent respect for the opinions of mankind?”

    In light of the history of US lies and criminal attacks on Libya over a span of decades, culminating in the complete destruction of the country which had the highest standard of living in Africa, the assassination of its leader and our Secretary of State publicly gloating to the world about it, the theft of hundreds of billions of dollars from its treasury — actions which completely alienated China and Russia and destroyed the US’s credibility on the world stage –, how do further lies, especially from an “opposition” source which depends upon reputation for effect, help the US? And isn’t pretending to reveal something sensitive, which turns out to be a lie, even more damaging to credibility than a plain vanilla lie?

    Not to belabor the point, allow me to explaining just why this issue of credibility is so important. You state:

    “If the U.S. has more convincing evidence than what has so far been adduced concerning responsibility for shooting down Flight 17, we believe it would be best to find a way to make that intelligence public – even at the risk of compromising “sources and methods.” Moreover, we suggest you instruct your subordinates not to cheapen U.S. credibility by releasing key information via social media like Twitter and Facebook.

    The reputation of the messenger for credibility is also key in this area of “public diplomacy.”

    Yes, the reputation of the messenger is key, and with a history of making false intelligence public, while appearing to “compromise ‘sources and methods,’ it is hard to know how any disclosure that could not be independently verified would help.

    I’m sure that VIPS is a good group, with its heart in the right place — but, if you want to engender the type of credibility that would move the public debate forward, you simply MUST be accurate with the information in your examples. And if you don’t want to be seen as a “limited hangout,” you must do more than simply encouraging the government to put on a fake show of disclosure, which could only serve to convince your more gullible reading public, and not foreign governments. For the US at this point, in the eyes of the rest of the world, there is no trust without verification.

  2. Richard
    August 2, 2014 at 17:30

    It’s interesting that former CIA officers as well as Mr. Kissinger (predecessor of Mr. Kerry) strongly stand for peace and international dialogue while the current administration seems to support conflict. Thank you for independent journalism! P.S. Main Russian media are not really free, however, they have been more moderate in blaming regarding this situation. Just for readers to have an idea, they support all versions that rebells did not shoot MH17, while the U.S. ones sticks to the opposite. I read some neutral media in Russian (not state-owned but not pro-U.S.), they put all versions together, and still the fact that rebells had downed the plain seemed strongly unconvincing. Maybe it was really Kiev. In fact they use balletic missiles on people… Campaign against Putin is disgusting. What if someone made the same campaign against pres. Obama?

    • Yar
      August 4, 2014 at 08:50

      The same campaign would be improbable. Demonizing the ONE man is not only very disgusting, but is absolutely stupid. It’s only for USA and EU.

  3. Natalia
    August 2, 2014 at 03:56

    Fellow Americans! I’m from Ukraine, and I want to tell you – in eastern Ukraine, a real war going on! Russian forwards every day there tanks, military, terrorists fired at civilian houses. Now Russia denies everything? What it do? They will never admit that killing Ukrainians!

  4. August 1, 2014 at 10:07


    On this site, a german is discussing about the pictures of the malaysian plane cockpit.
    I was convinced by his technical analysis. His conviction is: the plane was shot by one of the 2 Sukois 25 flying along and not by a missile.
    Furthermore as Russia and the US are closely monitoring the area, should a missile had been shot from the ground, it would have been recorded by both Russia and the US. Russia never claims that a missile was shot. A contrario, the US said so but nerver produced any supportive data.
    It is clear that the plane was shot by a Sukoi. The remaining question is: who gave the order: the kiev Junta or the kiev junta and the US special forces in Kiev ?

    • Yar
      August 1, 2014 at 17:44

      All specialists say this continuously. But who cares?..

  5. Barry Sheridan
    August 1, 2014 at 05:38

    Some of the assessment made here over the shooting down of the Korean airlines 747 is suspect. I believe it was at night, this would allow leeway to say that the Soviet pilot might have had some difficulty in making out what aircraft it was, assuming the 747 logo light was off (this illuminates the tail insignia) and he ignored the fact that the 747 had a unique arrangement of passenger windows (upper and lower main deck). By the same token any attempt to alert the crew of the Jumbo by some sort of visual signal would also be difficult, if not impossible as the crew have little reason to look outside given that flight is routinely automated. It also seems possible that by the time it was attacked it had already entered international airspace.

    None of this of course alters the call for facts regarding the Malaysian airliner.

    • Roman
      August 2, 2014 at 17:35

      You know, Russians love conspiracy theories. It possible that KAL747 was spying too. The U.S. administration thought that Soviets would not dare to shoot at a civilian plane, so they asked the pilot to be off course for a while, but Soviet airforce accidentally mistook a 747 for a spy plane. Anyway, it was early 1980s, most likely fighters, did not have the same equipment on board that they have now.

  6. Olga
    July 31, 2014 at 20:36

    Today I bumped into an interview with Ukrainian fascist Bogdan Butkevich and could not believe what he says. I couldn’t find it in English but I can translate as I speak both Russian and Ukrainian. He told that people of Donbass shouldn’t be taking into consideration at all, and Donbass must be used only for it’s resources. He said that there were about 4 million people in Donetsk region and 1.5 million people out of 4 million were total nuisance and it was easy to solve Donbass problem: those people had to be killed. These type of people are in charge of Ukraine now and it is really scary.

    • Yar
      August 1, 2014 at 02:55

      Sadly – your comment almost will not be read. I think even journalists here don’t read comments – only those who knows truth already, very several people…

      • Olga
        August 1, 2014 at 03:19

        I am happy if somebody reads and starts thinking differently.

        • Yar
          August 1, 2014 at 17:51

          Nobody starts. Joe Tedesky “thinks differently” already (and five people else). Others are plain fascists (or idiots). Sorry…

    • Joe Tedesky
      August 1, 2014 at 12:15

      Olga, keep posting your comments. This thread is the end of an older article, not sure how many are still reading it. We all would like to have your input. J.T.

      Ps…video shoes how terrible it is in Ukraine. (Thanks for translation). More Americans need to know this!

      • Olga
        August 1, 2014 at 16:13

        Thanks, I will.

  7. Joe Tedesky
    July 31, 2014 at 12:54

    Ray McG.,
    Not sure who you are referring to as “the author”. J.T.

  8. July 30, 2014 at 17:32

    Kerry is a horrible representative for the U.S. and it’s rising generations and I’m sure glad you all came up with such an eloquent stab, but where is the mention of McCain… you know, the cheerleader of war? Clapper is even on your list, I suggest that due to the overwhelming public support that McCain has shown both here and abroad for the Kiev Junta, and the fact that he was one of the first ones in congress to lead the war path to Russia after the downing of MH17, that he be included on your list, position debatable (I know that retired CIA live in Sedona). Other than that I commend you on your efforts to communicate a sense of reason and clarity in a respectful attempt to influence the President/Cabinet’s geo-political “attitudes” and policies towards Russia and the rising BRICS nations. The suggestions you made are light compared to the attitude adjustments I would have suggested which would sound more like impeachment via international laws on propaganda, but, maybe that’s why I don’t have CIA after my name. As you have all clearly pointed out the line between state and the media is blurred at best these days, a person like me has to search far and wide for a real picture outside of the western media blackout (BRICS Bank, Gazprom & Gaza, “Nazis” & Shell in Ukraine, etc. whiteapple.ninja), remember, most of us don’t even have your sources. If I remember correctly Obama was just proclaiming that we needed to clean up our media and make sure that the citizens got a fair and honest view, not sure if words will do the trick here. What I do know is that like your “senses” seem to be telling you… mine are telling me that something smells very fishy and that the U.S. may not be the only countries my nose has implicated as far as what one might call ~ towing the company line. But most of all Ladies and Gentlemen (I try to save the best for last you know?), thank you for standing up for truth in justice, I think Socrates would’ve been more than approving and I am in your debt.
    David Ravicher

  9. Helen Marshall
    July 30, 2014 at 16:49

    I served in INR and would love to sign this petition! The fraud is palpable. No one in the media seems to ask the millenia-old question, cui bono? WHO benefits from what is happening? Not Russia. Let’s follow the trail to….why, could it be the neo-cons and the fossil fuel industry????

    • Ray McGovern
      August 3, 2014 at 21:22

      thanks. pls contact VIPS thru me via the email address on raymcgovern.com. r

  10. July 30, 2014 at 16:30

    I wish Europe and USA stop lying about what is happening in Ukraine. It is a civil war, people die every day. More than 1000 people died during so called “anti-terrorist operation”. They are killing their own ukrainian people by using forbidden firearms. That doesn’t bother anybody. Sanctions against Russia are more important!

  11. Шариков
    July 30, 2014 at 16:03

    Дуэль Порошенко и Обамы на гранатометах решит исход этой ненужной войны.

  12. Yra
    July 30, 2014 at 12:30

    ” ящики” с малазийского боинга уже давно расшифрованы, однако результаты не , я думаю потому, что доказывают вину Киевской хунты. Самое печальное в этой истории, что США покрывают военных преступников и тем самым берут ответственноскть на себя. Америка, которая всегда стояла за справедливость и свободу сама не заметила, как стала союзником фашистского государства, и фактически соучастником массовых убийств мирных граждан, стариков и детей на востоке Украины!

    • Joe Tedesky
      August 2, 2014 at 13:19

      You have a point about the U.S. Media. Here in the U.S. our media has already started pulling away from MH17.
      ……………. Translation to Russian
      У вас есть пункт о США Media. Здесь, в США наши СМИ уже началась отстраняясь от MH17.

  13. Mike Rennie
    July 30, 2014 at 11:24

    Maybe some young analyst in the UK will reveal the real contents of those black boxes sent there for analysis…

    Like Katharine Gun, a shy and studious 28-year-old who was a Mandarin specialist at GCHQ, the government’s surveillance centre in Cheltenham – who leaked a secret plan by the US and UK in 2003 to spy on the UN Security Council delegates to blackmail them into supporting the invasion of Iraq – before she was arrested, lost her job and faced trial under the Official Secrets Act.

    This revealed to Brits that the United State’s NSA was issuing a direct order to the employees of a UK security agency to gather “the whole gamut of information that could give US policymakers an edge in obtaining results favourable to US goals or to head off surprises”. This included a particular focus on the “swing nations” on the security council, Angola, Cameroon, Chile, Bulgaria and Guinea, “as well as extra focus on Pakistan UN matters”.

  14. Alexandre ROUBINET
    July 30, 2014 at 09:43

    Why Biden and Kerry are pushing hard in this insane direction? Maybe a first answer in the recent nomination of Hunter Biden (Joe Biden’s son) and Christopher Heinz (John Kerry’s stepson) reported in this article published by the Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/business/shortcuts/2014/may/14/hunter-biden-job-board-ukraine-biggest-gas-producer-burisma).
    During the Bush’s mandate, oïl seems to be the best internal justification for US foreign décisions. With Obama government, should we assumed that it has been replaced by Gas? If, with the weakening of Russia, it’s the hidden motivation of the US government, I’m afraid that every thing will be good to continue as long as it will serve their personal interests, and as lon as they will have their hand on the major US’ & UE’ mass medias.
    I can tell you that, from Europe in general, or in France where I live, the perception of the USA is catastrophic due to all your past foreign miserable interference (Chile with Pinochet, Iran with the Shah, Irak with Saddam Hussein, Afghanistan, Ukraine in 2004 and now, etc). Of course my french government is not a white angel. We all have plenty of sad example in mind, but due to the enormous US power, the consequences of US foreign actions are incomparable (keep in mind the military 2013 budgets: US $640B, China $188B, Russia $88B)
    Because I personnaly know a lot of your fellow citizens, I know that we mustn’t confuse between your government and the American citizens, but I can assure you that the US government attitude has a terrific impact on the perception that people have in the world of the American citizens.

  15. Yar
    July 30, 2014 at 05:22

    A useless piece of idealism…

    Snyder was right, of course.
    Americans hope that the war will be off their territory again.
    Bloody bastards…

  16. G
    July 30, 2014 at 02:55

    What passes for the Left in the USA backed a presidential candidate in 2008–Barack H. “Barry” Obama–who was also the preferred candidate of Goldman Sachs and more than a couple of Anglo-American Intelligence agencies.

    You really should not be shocked that a Wall Street creation might try to start a World War.

    • Yaj
      July 30, 2014 at 09:04

      Whatever the many problems of Obama, I’m not seeing a lot of evidence that he wants to start a world war, some in the US State Dept and military perhaps.

      And publications like Time Magazine.

  17. David Sheridan
    July 30, 2014 at 01:17

    After this much time, I suspect any satellite imagery the US releases would be doctored.

  18. Diadia Fedia
    July 30, 2014 at 00:26

    A thoughtful and commendable for its larger cause letter. However, it is based on the predicate of the existence of a credible set of evidence, which has been improperly, poorly presented. The fact that this “evidence” has, thus far, not been put forwards strongly suggests that it does not exist, as it did not in the previous Kerry false flag instances. In such a case, the WH/Admin. has painted itself into a corner, one that is impossible to get out of without doing major damage to the paint job. Faced with no choice, it will walk all over, causing great damage to itself and others. This is a sad story for the US and the rest of the Globe.

  19. B. Randy Kirsch
    July 30, 2014 at 00:17

    Very touching letter! But nobody, NOBODY, in authority, will ever say publicly, that the evidence is, at the very least, ambiguous.
    Just imagine the President going on National TV, and telling the world, “Well Shit! Maybe the Russians, and their rebel friends, didn’t shoot down the plane. Honestly, we just don’t know!”
    As cool that would be to see, each and everyone of us, in the world, has a better chance of winning the lottery, TOMORROW NIGHT!

  20. Mike Rennie
    July 29, 2014 at 22:33

    State Dept. spokeswoman Marie Harf, and Johnny Kerry, remind me of two slimy lawyers who will tell any lies to get the “win” for their client – the pro-Western Kiev regime who recently came to power, violently, with help from the CIA.

    Even if Obama found out that the coup Government in Kiev, or one of their billionaire-led factions, downed MH17 in some covert op to make the rebels seem like “terrorists” and speed up desperately needed NATO/EU/US aid against Russia, he’s in too deep to reveal it now. I bet they’d rather start a war with Russia to divert attention than admit they’re in bed with neo-Nazi terrorists that just shot down 298 innocent people to win a huge PR advantage in their still-ongoing takeover of Ukraine.

  21. Bruce
    July 29, 2014 at 21:31

    ” … (Obama) you remove the seeds of this confrontation … ”
    That would mean the resignation of himself and his entire cabal of Poppy Bush Company PNAC Attackers, PERIOD.

  22. Richard Steven Hack
    July 29, 2014 at 20:50

    This is a video of Sergie Glazyev, Economic Adviser to Putin. You need to see this, because he has it exactly right – and this is undoubtedly the advice he is giving to Putin.


    Frankly, I expect Putin, in the light of today’s escalation of the war by Ukraine firing short range ballistic missiles at civilians in eastern Ukraine, to move to establish a “no-fly” zone over eastern Ukraine, a la what Obama did in Libya. If the Ukraine government continues to prosecute the war against the militia, I expect Putin to conduct an air campaign against Ukraine forces in the east. If the Kiev government does not stand down, I expect Putin to extend the air campaign to the Kiev government a la what Obama did to Gadaffi in Libya.

    If the US or NATO attempts to move troops into the Ukraine to counter these moves, I expect Putin to warn of the possibility of conducting an immediate full-scale invasion and annexation of Ukraine. The US and NATO cannot move fast enough to counter such a move if Putin is committed to doing so.

    Such a move would put the US/NATO and Russia on a collision course for nuclear war.

    Obama must be forced by public opinion and international pressure to back down before he puts us on the brink of WWIII (or WWIV, as Glasyev calls it.)

    Obama was outmaneuvered by Putin over the Syria chemical attack issue and being the “stunning narcissist” (as Normal Finkelstein calls him) that he is, he is obsessed with ruining Putin’s day in retaliation. He needs to be stopped before we end up in a nuclear war.

  23. July 29, 2014 at 20:07

    • Important link (photo) for americans: Tragedy in Gorlovka (Ukraine): killed Madonna and Child on the lawn!

    Yesterday Ukrainian punitive army, from Kiev, fired from “Grad” Gorlovki residential neighborhoods in the Donetsk region. All that’s happening in the last day, be called a “war crime.” Ukrainian army continues to shell civilian houses of multiple rocket launchers “Grad”. People are dying with their entire families – mothers, fathers, young children.

  24. Alexander
    July 29, 2014 at 20:01

    It’s getting more and more interesting… again, the information below is from blogs and/or news, but the same sources provided reliable info in the past. Take it for what it is and it would be interesting if this can be verified somehow by the intel community.

    First, a sequence of today’s events:
    1) Lavrov says he won’t talk to Kerry
    2) CNN rushes a message that Ukraine fire 3 ballistic missiles: main point that they were NOT aimed at Russia.
    3) Kerry calls Lavrov and they talk.
    4) Kerry, Poroshenko and others call for immediate stop to military activity, recognize rebels and call for negotiations (all of this is unheard of before).
    What really happened (as it seems):
    – Ukraine fires 3 ballistic missiles in the direction of Russia border; Russia shoots the missiles just like it did when Israel fired on Syria last year and is moments away from launching a full army operation on Ukraine; Kerry uses media to deliver a message to Lavrov like it was used during Caribbean crisis.
    Summary: we have avoided WW3 today; lets see what tomorrow brings…

    Second (this info is based on blogs only – so it may be a fake):
    An Ukrainian security official sold a tape of Obama/Poroshenko phone call to Germany officials for $1 million. The tape contains them discussing public messaging about Boing and has Obama saying they planned it together and many other things. Merkel was notified and required that no one hears about this. However, a transcript was passed on through Poland to Russian SVR and they have it.
    It also says the transcript will be (has been?) delivered to Reuters. If true, Obama is looking at a jail term and Merkel as well for the cover up?

    All of this is probably not much dirtier than your usual politics, so let them save their faces/whatever they do in such cases, but we don’t need another war on this planet…

  25. Olga
    July 29, 2014 at 18:53

    It is really scary to live today… I like the article and I think that even if Obama will not pay attention to that information, sharing it on Facebook will open some people’s eyes on this situation. I have to admit, that when I share articles like this on Facebook, nobody among my American friends seems to bother to share it or at least to “like” it.

  26. F. G. Sanford
    July 29, 2014 at 18:42

    Memorandum for: Russian Federation President V.V. Putin
From: SVR Directorate PR, Foreign Intelligence Analysis Special Projects Section
Subject: Evaluation of Memorandum, Former USG Intelligence Specialists Letter Published 29 JUL 14 

    Reference: Previous VIPS Memorandum Evaluation Published 04 MAY 14

    1. Contents of said memorandum include a synopsis of the current impasse, pertinent historical vignettes in relevant contextual framework, risks associated with escalation of rhetoric, recommendations for release of pertinent intelligence data, and recommendations for appropriate dialogue. Note that in our analysis dated 04 MAY 14 we concluded that violence would escalate. This assertion was predicated on deep-state financial objectives implied by the IMF posture regarding revision of the aid package should the puppet regime in Kiev fail to suppress dissent in the eastern territories. These predictions have been specifically validated without equivocation.

    2. As a political analysis branch, we have no access to electronic, photo-reconnaissance or satellite data. That said, we believe that the mechanical outcome speaks for itself and is secondary to the political scenario. Catastrophic mechanical failure, ground-to-air missile, air-to-air missile or standard armor piercing 30mm cannon rounds are all possible; only the ground-to-air missile explanation can be conclusively proven by satellite and electronic data. Other scenarios require forensic examination for conclusive verification. Great pains have been taken to preclude such examination by impartial experts. Thus, the proverbial “smoking gun” may never emerge.

    3. War games simulating destruction of civil aircraft are exhaustive; approach from below and behind using cannon fire or fragmentation warhead are routinely effective. Radar data may confirm the presence of a hostile pursuit aircraft. Apparent lack of any evidence to the contrary (unless that evidence is purposely withheld) suggests this as the most likely scenario.

    4. American and EU industrial productivity continue to decline based on many indicators, yet financial instruments continue to accrue value. Approval of “bail-ins” in America and Europe is a metaphor concealing a negative interest rate economy precariously balanced on unsecured speculative investments. We estimate that these liabilities may exceed $14 trillion; stock market aberrations could be catastrophic. Only a war footing can provide the ruse by which such a “house of cards” can be managed. Sovereign prerogatives imposed by “state of exception” would require active hostilities.

    5. Germany will be unsympathetic but may be carried along in the fray. The political environment in Poland is completely dysfunctional, and the Balkan states lack even the vestiges of political autonomy. The laughable scenario presented by NATO is that they must be “reassured”. They are unwittingly characterized as weeping children wanting their mothers as they are prepared to provide the buffer between Germany and Ukraine, lambs to the slaughter at the behest of their IMF/EU/ECB/NATO handlers.

    6. We are unable to conclude that the present occupant of the office in question has autonomy beyond a titular capacity. There is no apparent bargaining partner. It would be wise to “reassure” Germany that retaliation will be directed well behind the front lines imagined by current NATO “reassurances”. The reckless desperation motivating these foolhardy gestures suggest fear motivated by imminent financial catastrophe and threat of domestic unrest. Any excuse may be sufficient to precipitate aggression.

    Very Respectfully,
//Original Signed//

    Subcommittee Chairman

  27. Hillary
    July 29, 2014 at 16:48

    “Obama Should Release Ukraine Evidence”
    Why ?
    G.W.Bush & others immediately said they had video evidence to “convict” Bin Laden when 9/11 happened and that they would be releasing it but it was not and National Security or some other excuse was given.
    In the now famous “confession” video that WAS released in December of 2001 by the Department of Defense under growing international pressure to provide definitive proof tying Bin Laden to 9/11 , the person was obviously not Osama Bin Laden and the tape was a fake.
    Also the Pentagon had 80 surveillance cameras operating on 9/11, yet it won’t release the footage of the alleged airliner that hit the Pentagon.
    The MSM as usual are once again just promoting the administration propaganda.


    • Yaj
      July 29, 2014 at 21:18


      Um, so because there’s not strong video evidence to back the official (US) story of the events of Sept 2001, evidence the US may have regarding this plane crashing/downing shouldn’t be released?

  28. onno frowein
    July 29, 2014 at 16:42

    Great attempt of this select group, but politics has been a dirty business for a long time. In y opinion there is NO doubt that UA army shot down MH 17 with the instruction by the White House. The emphasis of the west is to destroy Russia that has become too independent and too powerful. On top of that is President Putin too strong of a leader that jeopardizes the US dominance in the World.
    Well I have news for those MSM propaganda media the USA imperium is over and the world develops into an anti-American and hostile environment. The incompetence of the White House under Obama, Biden and Kerry is more stupid then ever before and its blowing up right in their OBAMA clique faces, another blunder like US involvement in the Kiev Neo-Nazi government and its shoot-down of MH 17 would be another WIN for Russia.
    In my opinion USA and EU are fighting for its economic survival as well. European Banks fined for billions of dollars for violating US laws are now blaming the Dollar trading and the powerful position of this currency. Also this will soon change when the US dollar has to compete with the Chinese Yuan.
    Another reason I find in the founding of a GLOBAL TRADING BLOCK called BRICS that includes powerful-high growth and richest country like China which now controls most countries in Asia, Africa and South America. As a result USA and EU lost their trading potential in these countries as well.
    Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) is the last convulsion of an old couple NOT realizing they lost their trading position and respect in the world.

    • Yaj
      July 29, 2014 at 21:11

      @onno frowein

      Quoting from your post:

      “In y opinion there is NO doubt that UA army shot down MH 17 with the instruction by the White House.”

      ” European Banks fined for billions of dollars for violating US laws are now blaming the Dollar trading and the powerful position of this currency. Also this will soon change when the US dollar has to compete with the Chinese Yuan.
      Another reason I find in the founding of a GLOBAL TRADING BLOCK called BRICS ”

      “The incompetence of the White House under Obama, Biden and Kerry is more stupid then ever before and its blowing up right in their OBAMA clique faces,”

      By simply quoting some conspiracies running around the internet you’ve not added anything to this discussion.

      And in fact strengthens various tales told by the mainstream press in the USA.

      For example it is very unlikely that the White House directly ordered the downing of Malaysia Air 71. And making such a claim, sans a shred of evidence, doesn’t help those who question the claims published as established by newspapers like the New York Times or Washington Post.

      In fact the Ukrainian government fell, so there is no government–neonazi or otherwise, and the neonazis were less the government and more a force in the streets and behind some parts of the government.

      While there are many problems with the US dollar, trading in Yuan has other significant problems.

      • Anonymous
        August 5, 2014 at 10:43

        you wrote a very relevant reply, thks!

  29. jaycee
    July 29, 2014 at 15:45

    Currently, no fewer than seven major newsweeklies across North America and Europe feature Putin on their covers – several with a similar photograph of him wearing mirrored sunglasses – all of them denouncing him as a dangerous “pariah” who must be confronted. This is not an accident or coincidence. These covers – like newspaper headlines or CNN’s repeated video loops – are unavoidable in daily life, feeding abbreviated information directly to the populace who absorb it consciously or unconsciously. This is a deliberate invocation of a lynch mob mentality, and our psyches are being pummelled and degraded by a psychological warfare exercise directed squarely at us.

    • July 29, 2014 at 17:48

      yes, what you said. its frustrating and mind numbing on a daily basis, like long term mental torture by the Former United State s of Ameroka.

  30. Alexnader
    July 29, 2014 at 15:12

    It’s important to know the truth about plain crash for sure, but there seems to be things going on which are more concerning – US is essentially seems to be starting a war with Russia by dragging EU into it by all means possible.

    Here are some things discussed in the Russian news sources and blogs which seems to be collaborated by official news (indirectly). I cannot give you links to “sources” as all of them would lead to blogs/youtube etc which cannot be reliably verified, but if you can verify some of this information through more reliable means, it may be useful for people to know.

    1. Ukraine government with support from US/CIA is/was planning a series of terrorist acts in Ukraine including attacking nuclear and chemical plants, blowing up highly-populated buildings etc. The plan was/is to blame rebels and Russia and use as a pretext for further isolation of Russian up to using NATO forces openly in Ukraine conflict and beyond. Copies of documents proving this (places, times, names etc) were provided (yesterday I believe) to a US embassy in one of the ex-USSR countries which led to those events being postponed (hopefully cancelled). As I understand some of these were planned for August 2nd or about that time. As a result Kerry announced just recently that US/Ukraine want peace with rebels “immediately” (to renew Ukrainian forces which are failing in the offense), not in the future as this changed their plans (as the pretext for involving NATO explicitly and not through contractors may not be immediately available) .

    2. US is working with Romania and Moldova preparing an attack on disputed Pridnestrovje (Trans-Dnestr) region in Moldova (building up Romanian troops under Moldova flags). At the same time US is working with Ukraine to build up defensive positions on Ukrainian side of the same region. The plan it seems is to attack Russian peacekeeping force in the region and retake it by force. One can only guess at consequences…

    3. Things seem to be going on in the conflict region between Armenia/Azerbaijan with US trying to take control over the process (through UN, but we know how it goes). I don’t have details here and US activity is not new here, but it appears this has been activated recently.

    3. US has activated all its influence agents/NCO inside Russia trying to spur up internal conflicts. Again, not a new thing, just suddenly active across the board.

    The goal it seems is (as it’s been for awhile) to overthrow Putin and split up and/or take control over Russia – not a surprise or a new idea either. However, what’s concerning is the way US is going about it dragging many nations into a military conflict leading to tens of thousands of dead and even more injured (already in Ukraine based on documents obtained by hacking community/reports/etc and counting). With US/EU media in blind propaganda spree mode (and now getting into flat-out censorship with proven instances of large IT and media companies removing/blocking materials to the contrary, attempts to censor RT in UK etc), many people may not realize what their governments are dragging them into before it’s too late…

  31. Joe Tedesky
    July 29, 2014 at 14:37

    While I truly appreciate this groups efforts to convince the President to deal with the truth, I doubt their concern will matter. Most Americans believe the Russians just up and shot down flight KAL007, end of story. Also most Americans believe Syria had chemical weapons, and that they had previously used them on their own people. In some circles of American life one cannot even question the 9/11/01 attacks…it’s just that simple. Oh and remember Putin was once KGB!

    Don’t get me wrong, I applaud this groups appeal to President Obama. I just would not get my hopes up, that something will come of it in a positive way.

    The bigger problem is the Western Media. I cannot even imagine what it maybe like to be Russian, and to hear what the west is saying of it. If the shoe were on the other foot I am sure the outcome would not be pretty. So much for, “Blessed are the peace makers”.

    • Juliya
      July 29, 2014 at 16:03

      // I cannot even imagine what it maybe like to be Russian, and to hear what the west is saying of it//
      I can say it. I feel it like the world get cranky.
      I want peace. I’m afraid of war. We see what happens with Ukrain, thousands refugees fled to Russia. We all have relatives in Ukraine. Some relatieves are for Kiev, other are against Kiev.
      The most terrible thing is to watch how easy to destroy country.

      • Joe Tedesky
        July 29, 2014 at 22:03

        there are many of us who feel as you do. let us both feel better at least knowing that. many of us fear war as well. again let us join hands and share our hope for peace together.
        Есть многие из нас, кто считает, как и вы. пусть нас обоих чувствовать себя лучше, по крайней мере, зная, что. многие из нас боятся войны, а также. снова Давайте объединим наши усилия и разделить нашу надежду на мир вместе.
        Yest’ mnogiye iz nas, kto schitayet, kak i vy. pust’ nas oboikh chuvstvovat’ sebya luchshe, po krayney mere, znaya, chto. mnogiye iz nas boyatsya voyny, a takzhe. snova Davayte ob”yedinim nashi usiliya i razdelit’ nashu nadezhdu na mir vmeste.

        • Kristina
          July 30, 2014 at 10:25

          Ditto to all said above. I have friends and family in the US, Russia and Ukraine. The world seems to have gone insane.. As much as my heart hurts for Ukraine, I am seriously scared that there is even a slightest chance of US going to war with Russia. This will not be good for anyone. It’s time for dialogue and truth. I pray for peace, and mutual understanding, and wisdom for our governments to do the right thing. Please, NO WAR!

        • Olka
          July 30, 2014 at 12:56

          You say Americans rejected God to believe in propaganda? Not so.

        • July 30, 2014 at 23:58

          thanks much.
          do you have the author? I would love to look her/him up. ray

          • Joe Tedesky
            July 31, 2014 at 12:53

            See below

      • Roman
        August 2, 2014 at 17:49

        We’re used to it. However, this time it seems like “Western” politicians have gone a little mad. Russian ones show greater restraint. Anyway the notion “West” was reintroduced but there is no “East” this time. I don’t know who is going to “fight” whom today. Russia took Crimea to secure its one and only naval base in reaction to a power change in Ukraine backed by the U.S. and EU. That was probably not the best solution, but no one was hurt. Separatists are guys who liked the idea of self-determination and wanted to either get more independency from Kiev or to merge with Russia (almost everyone there is Ukrainian + some mercenaries and supporters from former USSR, not only Russia, and Serbia). Officially Russia is not supporting them, but it would be crazy for Russians not to support pro-Russian separatists. U.S. supports pro-Western rebels in Syria. To tell the truth, this whole conflict is a big tragedy for Ukrainians and Russians, we’re so close culturally, so this is bad. It’s like U.S. and Canada fighting with each other. No one wants this war to happen a bunch of nationalists.

    • August 5, 2014 at 05:49

      I really suggest that anybody who writes about KAL007 sticks to verifiable facts. Firstly, the plane did not stray hundreds of miles off its course. The plane’s autopilot strayed about 10km. Secondly, for 1 week Russians denied that they shot it. Thirdly, they pretended to search for the plane when knowing exactly where the plane was. Capt Osipov who shot KAL007 denied that he ever warned the plane and black box evidence confirmed it. He shot at the rear stabiliser of KAL007 making it to climb and therefore slow which ground radar interpreted as the avoiding maneuver and ordered use of the air-to-air rocket. Fourthly, the Russian propaganda made a story of US provocation with a spy plane filled with dead bodies – very much like their current propaganda in regards to MH17. For all those who doubt these facts I suggest to read the dossier released in 1993 by president Yeltsin to Soth Koreans with all Russian original documents confirming what I just said. My advice to the author of this article is to do proper research and apologise for misinforming. If the author of this article decides not to apologise in the face of these facts I will have to assume that he lies deliberately.

      • sent
        August 11, 2014 at 22:03

        This is reality, no Russian propaganda needed:

        Operation Northwoods, pretext for war against Cuba:


        This operation has been stopped, but the main culprit was not imprisoned, he was promoted to the SACEUR. A clear signal to criminals in following governments.

        USS Liberty, pretext for war against Egypt. Literally at the last second Russian ships appeared and the Americans were saved:


        USS Maine, pretext for war against Spain, although no evidence existed:


        Governments plan to kill their own people, to put the country into war-mood and they do it.

  32. July 29, 2014 at 14:25

    If the intelligence showed that the separatists had downed MH17, inadvertely or otherwise, it would have been released within hours. Since it wasn’t, we can only assume it doesn’t. The desired narrative has been established. The fix is in.

Comments are closed.